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April 2, 1999 - Art Bell
01:48:15
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Politics of the Crucifixion - Glenn Kimball
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♪♪ From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I
bid you all good evening or good morning, as the case may be across this great land of ours, and it
is a great land.
It doesn't always do great things, but it's a great land indeed.
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Virgin Islands, south into South America, north to Poland, worldwide on the Internet.
Thanks to Broadcast.com and Intel.
Don't forget, you can go to my website, get the G2 Player, download it, go back to my website, and you can see me doing this program in almost TV.
Screaming video, I call it.
Alright, well, the news of the day, the big news of course, is that we are hitting downtown Belgrade now.
Dropping bombs on buildings, government-associated buildings in downtown Belgrade.
It probably was the most dramatic attack in the 11 days of dropping bombs thus far.
In the meantime, it doesn't really look like the air campaign is going to accomplish the goal.
In fact, really the news is the Serbs are now about 3 or 4 days, or days at least, From accomplishing their goal.
Driving out the ethnic Albanians.
Anyway, it's going to be Easter, so we will turn our attention to many other things.
Good morning everybody.
And by the way, we've got some new bumpers from Ross.
Glen Kimble's coming up and he sent me a fax way back when and said, hey Art, wanna take a ride for Easter?
And I thought, well sure, why not?
And then along came Ross with some new phone bumpers.
Here's an example of the beginning of another one.
Wanna take a ride?
That's Ross Mitchell.
Good morning everybody.
Coming up in a moment, we are gonna take a ride with Glenn Kimball.
He's 49 years of age.
Divorced now 14 years.
A B.A.
in Journalism.
M.A.
in Communications.
Ph.D.
in Southern Illinois University Communications.
That's a lot of education, an awful lot of education.
So it's really Dr. Kimball, isn't it?
Let's see.
Taught high school in 75.
T.A.
College, 75, 76.
5GA College, 75-76, taught Southern University, Southern Illinois University, 76-9.
President of the International Exchange School, 1980-84.
Vice President of Cell West Communications.
Ah, went into the private sector, eh?
84 through 89.
And he's an incredible guy.
He's written The Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion.
It's the most recent book and you can get it and we'll tell you how.
And of course, Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus that we've talked about before.
Hidden politics of the crucifixion, huh?
Well, you can bet there was an awful lot of politics that surrounded the crucifixion.
We are coming up on Easter, so it is an appropriate topic.
And I think the politics would not have been, frankly, very much different than politics really is today.
What do you think?
Do you think it would have been about the same?
Maybe with an older flavor, but It would have been about the same.
Rotten to the core.
I'll bet you.
We'll ask.
We're going to try this now.
Bear with us.
If our power goes off, we lose all phone lines for some godforsaken reason.
I don't know why.
And that means that I lose my guest or whoever I have in a line.
So it looks like we're in for another night of joyful uncertainty with regard to power.
I mean, we've gone years and years and years.
Now, all of a sudden, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip all the time.
Beginning on the 1st of April, I am highly suspicious.
Highly.
By the way, the other question that I was going to ask John Voigt, the Michio Kaku-like question, he first responded to, I thought very well to, if the universe is everything and scientists say that the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into?
The other possibility was, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?
I didn't have time to ask that one.
Here is Glenn Kimball.
Glenn, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much, Buhart.
It's a pleasure to be with you.
It's Dr. Kimball.
I mean, you've got a Ph.D.
here.
Dr. Kimball.
So, Doctor, how do we know... I'll start out with a very different kind of question.
How do we know that Jesus was real?
I think that's a real important question.
I think if we take the single perspective that comes biblically to us from history, we're looking at a very narrow perspective, not narrow in a critical sort of way, But certainly in terms of perspective, it's a single perspective in history.
And the historians in our day have quoted Josephus as being the only other voice of historical records from the time of Jesus, which is blatantly false.
Josephus was the greatest traitor the world has ever known, and wrote his histories of the Jewish wars as an adopted son of the Caesars after having betrayed his own people and won that adopted status.
Uh, for having betrayed his own people, and that's like trusting Hitler to write the history of the Second World War for him.
And for anyone to think that Josephus was the only voice that evidences the existence of Jesus in the world at the time of Jesus is just simply not true.
We can return, for example, in history to the great book Written in 1782 by Gibbons, called The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which we all have on the tip of our tongues, most of us.
Tiberius Caesar, in that book, is quoted as having gone to the Roman Senate just after the death of Jesus, after the crucifixion, and petitioned the Roman Senate to raise Jesus as a god, little g, alongside Mars and Saturn and Jupiter, in the house of Rome.
Now, if that's not a voice evidencing that Jesus exists, I don't know what was.
And there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of us.
Call us toll free at 1-800-618-8255.
Well, you know, this may, if it continues, force me to shut down a whole bunch of equipment here and go on to generator to isolate myself from... But you know what?
That's not going to help me.
I could go on a backup generator here, but with the phone companies going out the way they are, that is not going to help me.
So what am I to do?
Here we were getting this wonderful answer to a question, and once again the power went out.
I truly don't understand it.
From the time I went off the air last night until I went on the air tonight, we had not so much as one I don't know.
We'll see.
We'll see what happens.
minute that I got on the air, here they come again. So, I don't know. We'll see. We'll
see what happens. Anyway, we're going to get back to our guest right away and try and continue
Okay.
There you are.
Yes.
I have no idea what's going on.
It's a millennium.
It's Y2K.
Somebody ticked off at me at the Barrow Company.
I have no idea what it is.
Anyway, all right.
Where I was going next was, how do we know that Jesus was as he said he was and did as it is said He did the miracles, the fact that he was the Son of God, the fact that he was all that we believe him to be when we read the Bible.
Well, I think if we do this macrocosmic thing that we tried to do back in December, one of the ways that you can evidence those kinds of things is if you get both the enemies and the allies to agree on something, it's likely to be true.
Uh, we have, for example, I have in my possession the reports of the Sanhedrin at the time of Jesus who went out to investigate what kind of person Jesus was because they were expecting the Messiah to come and his family I had been telling people for generations that he would be born through the Royal House of David and the enemies in the Sanhedrin left a very clear trail of the investigation of Jesus.
I have to laugh sometimes because Gamaliel, who was one of the investigators assigned by the Sanhedrin to investigate the reality of Jesus, says in his report that Joseph, who was married to the
Virgin Mary, was a stupid person and that Mary was too beautiful for him
and that Jesus was lazy. But he kept performing all these miracles and
causing all this trouble, you know?
Now wait a minute, that Jesus was lazy?
Well, as a child he was often doing the work of his father and not around tending to the construction and
architectural business of his father.
And so when Gamaliel had a hard time finding Jesus in the business offices of his father, he alluded to the fact that perhaps he was a lazy worker because he wasn't paying attention to the business of the family.
But that's a critical view of Jesus, but he goes on to talk about, in his treatise, that every time that Jesus turned around, there were miracles and angels and things that were happening around Jesus and surrounded him.
It's a backhanded vindication of the fact that Jesus was, in fact, who he said he was.
enemies or opposite opinions about Jesus himself that have survived into our day
and it's my, getting back to your question, if both the enemies and the
allies agree that Jesus was in fact a miraculous healer and a performer of miracles
we got something there. How well documented are the healings, the real miracles, the things that simply
were obviously miracles? They come to us from so many
perspectives that once again I think it's like hanging a picture on the wall
and if you use one nail you can still turn the picture around in circles but
if you get them from a variety of different sources then you begin to suspect
that maybe you've got something real by the hand
We get these miracle reports from people like the great Muslim culture, the great Hindu culture, from the visitors to Jerusalem, from the Roman Empire Senate records themselves, from people who you would never expect to vindicate Jesus under any circumstances, but in which did vindicate Jesus during his life and shortly after his life.
That is what has converted me to being a Christian and being a believer, a status of total atheist.
Then why are the Hindus not Christians?
The Hindus believe that Jesus was a great prophet, and they have more records of the life of Jesus than do the Christians.
I understand, but you just said they had records documenting the miraculous things he did.
Now, that's more than just a great prophet.
Surely then, or even now, That would be regarded as perhaps matching the claims of God.
So then how could they be Hindu when they're supplying us with all this evidence?
Well, I often have asked that question myself, but the reality of the matter is that they quote Jesus first-hand in the Vishnu Prana, the Rishabhidas.
They are followers of Jesus.
They have raised him to the status of special prophet within the Hindu faith.
Jesus is spoken on the lips of the common people in the streets in India, but of course they quote their own scriptures with regard to his sayings.
And if anything, he was the major prophet of all times amongst the Hindus.
With the exception of their own holy men who are the rulers of their country throughout the centuries.
It's amazing that they would exonerate any foreigner as a holy man.
Well, it is, and how could they regard miracles as anything less than a validation of something they should be involved in, worshipping, understanding, being part of, and yet they're not.
Well, they believe in miracles from their own prophets as well.
And so I imagine that that's part of their thinking pattern.
If you're fair as an investigator then, do you look into the miracles claimed by the Hindus?
And do you find the same sort of documentation and support?
I find more than perhaps in Christianity itself.
Oh, really?
Yes.
Documents are more pervasive.
I was not ready for that answer.
I wasn't ready for that answer at all, so... You know, I'm a simple soul.
But I was taught when I went to... I was a Lutheran.
There's only one path.
But if there is as much or more documentation of miracles in Hinduism, Then maybe there is more than one path, Glenn?
You may be dead right, Bart.
The saga of Jesus is a shared saga amongst all the cultures of the world, and we can take each one of them apart one at a time, and we probably ought to do that at some moment in time.
Wow, I never expected that answer from you.
Well, the pieces of the puzzle have put themselves together right before my eyes, and I didn't make them fall that way.
They fell that way on their own, Art.
Maybe nobody just quite asked you that question that way before.
No one has ever asked me that question that way before, but this is Art Bell.
Yikes!
Um, alright, hold on, Glenn.
Glenn, wow!
There may be more documentation for the Hindus of miracles performed.
Then of those performed by Jesus.
And that's not taking anything away from Jesus, but it is not the answer that I expected at all.
That's going to require some thought and discussion.
But, then again, that's what we're here for.
Glenn Kimball is here.
We'll tell you about his new book as we go on.
this is Coast to Coast AM. There is something pretty cool that I thought I would call to your attention. I
I think it's pretty cool.
You can see it on my website.
There is a full page ad in R&R, Radio and Records, and a lot of the other industry big magazines, which says the following.
Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell, 442, 442, now heard on more stations than any other
program in the history of late night radio.
Says congratulations Art on your 442nd affiliate and your friends at Premier Radio Networks.
So, it's pretty cool.
It is a record and a milestone to achieve.
Now heard on more stations than any other program in the history of late night radio.
Now, when they wrote that, that was at 442 affiliates.
four hundred and forty two affiliates were now just about to grace four hundred and fifty affiliates
so it's been a ride alright folks and now now we have this distinction
of being the largest radio show in the history of late night radio
you.
That's pretty cool.
That's amazing.
It's like somebody passed a hand over me and said, it will happen.
Or something.
Anyway, thank you all for that.
If you want to see a copy of it, it's up on the website right now.
Once again, uh, Glenn Kimball, who shocked me.
Shocked me, Glenn.
So there could be.
But the structured religions that teach the word of Christ, teach that there is only this path.
This singular path.
So how can you reconcile what you told me before the break?
Well Art, we have to remember that The closer you get to Jesus, the more defensive people have become over the years in preserving his words.
It was the case at the time of the Jews, during the life of Christ, by the time Jesus emerged on the end of the world.
They had banned all of the records outside the Torah or the five books of Moses from Jerusalem, and they had to travel in 73 B.C.
with a contingency of seven priests from each of the tribes of Israel to Alexandria, Egypt, to the Great Library there to retrieve the Old Testament, because they had banned everything.
That was not the case in other cultures.
We know that the great Hindu culture, for example, one of the representatives or the Magi who visited the birth of Jesus was, in fact, from India.
and uh... took back with him a wealth of information about the messiah from their own culture from their own
traditions and uh... they did not play the defensive game that
that often christianity did and as a result many of the records many more of
the records were preserved in india than perhaps in christianity itself and we
today hold up the bible and say this is all don't look at anything else
Right.
And so we have done the same thing the Jews did.
The closer we come to Jesus, the closer the cultures teach about Jesus, the more restrictive the records become.
If Jesus, we're going to talk about the crucifixion and politics of that in a moment, but if Jesus were to appear today as he did then, Now, just about 2,000 years ago, huh?
If he were to appear today, what do you think would happen?
Well, first of all, the people closest to him would be his enemies, probably, just like they were in his own day.
No change.
At the time of the birth of Jesus, Palestine had already been in civil war for 300 years from the days of 300 B.C.
in the Maccabean Movement.
They had shed each other's blood over the fight over a princess of Benjamin.
Who had been molested by one of the ten tribes of the north in Galilee, and you know Jerusalem was the home of two tribes, Benjamin and Judah, and the ten other tribes were up north, and they had been in civil war with each other, and the fact that Jesus himself lived in Galilee, he was considered the rich kid from the wrong side of the tracks whenever he visited Jerusalem.
When he was in Galilee, he had thousands of followers and advocates, and he fed the 5,000 with the loaves and the fishes.
But when he got to Jerusalem, the people were much more defensive because, in fact, he was a Jew, which was a descendant of the families of Jerusalem, but he was a kid from the wrong side of the tracks and actually lived amongst the perceived enemies.
It's much like the Union and the South in the Civil War.
They had that kind of perception with each other.
Sure.
Alright, let's talk a little bit about politics then and politics now.
Yes, we argue about different things, and yes, it's different in discernible, definable ways, but really it's not that much different now than it was then, is it?
Actually not.
As a matter of fact, the Roman Empire felt much the same about itself as we feel in the United States today.
The 100 years surrounding the birth of Jesus was the most free economy in the history of the world that the world had ever known.
You could literally walk a paved road from Egypt all the way to France, a paved road now, with one single passport, and that had never existed in the history of the world up until that time.
What an interesting parallel!
In other words, we are now, in our modern way, just about where they were then.
We are exactly where they were then.
History has repeated itself as a mere image.
I know, I see that happening now.
There is this cycle going on of religious and ethnic hatreds and killing that I'm starting to think it's never going to end, Glenn.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I do indeed.
Prophecy records long before, millennium before Jesus, that the ending, the 7,000th year, will be the millennium of the era of peace where no man will shed another man's blood.
And so we're right on the doorstep, Art, of the legacy that we have hoped for for thousands of years for our children.
And in fact, maybe our children will live in that time when no man will shed the blood of another man.
And that's prophecy.
It is the secret of the end of the seven years of apocalyptic era that we are about to face.
The ending condition of that will usher us into a new millennium.
uh... peace we we look at the records from the mayan text the uh...
cosmogenesis of of the mayan the calendar
uh... the interesting wording in that uh... it for the year two thousand
twelve is that they are celebrating the beginning of a new world the ushering in of a new
thousand years of peace
the mayans i i i'd sat amongst the heirs to the throne of the incas and they say exactly the
same no
women you're beginning to put some timelines together here so
then if you back up from that new beginning and you look at what's going to be come
uh... victim but it goes between now and then uh... when does the uh... show begin
and I'll see you in the next one.
Well, we're on the doorstep.
Many people have asked me that in email.
Sure.
Do I know the exact date and time?
Not exact, but I mean just generally.
If we were to believe the Incas and the Mayas, and if we were to believe the ancient Hebraic text and the Druid text, they all focus around the years 2008 through 2012.
I would suggest that we are very close to that, and that that is probably the era that we're looking at.
Now, there are prophecies during the time of Jesus where he says, no man will know the day and the hour of my coming.
That's right.
However, he didn't say anything about the year.
That's true.
That's true.
I think it probably violates the spirit of what was said, but it is true.
It is violating the spirit of what was said, without doubt, and pardon me for being that blasphemous and suggesting that.
That's right, that's the R Bell Show.
Except to suggest that the alignment of the stars was not, they could not predict accurately in history the movements of the stars.
They only had prophecies of their positions.
But today, in our day, we can predict the movement of the stars.
They couldn't predict, for example, the emergence of the star Bethlehem.
They did not know when it would occur, which was the merger of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces.
But we can't predict the alignment of the planets in the cosmogenesis of the Mayan and Inca structure.
We can't predict when that alignment of stars will occur, and that'll occur in the spring of 2012.
2012.
There is an awful lot of evidence, though, that they were trying very hard.
I mean, there's stonehenge, there's other very, very ancient artifacts that would indicate there was astronomy going on.
Astronomy as observation and a scientific endeavor, absolutely.
And they were absolute advocates and more followers of the stars than we are in our day.
But they did not know the exact physics of the stars as well as we do in our day.
Okay, let's talk about your new book a little bit.
I really am very, very curious about this.
You suggest that when we get into politics, that Pontius Pilate Was being blackmailed, blackmailed into crucifying Jesus by three men.
What can you tell us about that?
Well Pontius Pilate, we have to back up just one step to understand how Pontius Pilate came to be blackmailed.
He was born in Seville, Spain.
As a matter of fact, Raymond Brown, in his book on the Book of John in the New Testament, and by the way, Raymond Brown, who just passed away, and I'm sorry to hear that, but he's been passed on for a couple of years now, is the foremost scholar of our day with regard to Pontius Pilate.
He suggests that the real name of Pontius Pilate was Lucius.
Lucius is another synonym for saying, from Seville.
In other words, Pilate was born in Seville, Spain, as was a gentleman called Lucius, also born in Spain, and Sejanus.
Lucius was the Praetorian prefect of Tiberius Caesar, and as such, he brought Pilot from Seville, Spain, through the universities in England, where he studied, and brought him to Rome as his patron.
But Sejanus now, you've got to understand how this affects the crucifixion, because this is critical.
Sejanus was beheaded in 31 AD, two years before the crucifixion, because of a failed coup attempt.
And because Pontius Pilate not only came from the same city, but was his actual patron, that failed coup attempt reflected on Pontius Pilate as well.
Now, Tiberius Caesar had allowed Pontius Pilate to be married to his granddaughter, and so he still had a tongue-in-cheek faith in Pontius Pilate, and he did not have any evidence that Pontius Pilate had anything to do with the failed coup attempt.
So, in other words, Pontius Pilate had insurrection skeletons in his closet.
He did indeed, and there were three men who knew about his conversations with Sejanus about the failed coup attempt, and these three men were, two of them were Sadduceean leaders in Palestine, Uh, one of them was Annas, one of them was Caiaphas.
These are the principal characters at the crucifixion.
These people knew about the liaison between Pontius Pilate and Lucius Sejanus because they were Roman allies.
Annas and Caiaphas were paid servants of the Roman Empire.
They were the leaders of the Sanhedrin, and they were Jews, but nonetheless they were Roman allies, and they found out about the liaison between Pilate and Sejanus, and they threatened Pontius Pilate To tattle on him.
Now, I'm not the first person to say that.
As a matter of fact, Raymond Brown, the foremost scholar in the world, in his book, Death of the Messiah, says exactly the same thing.
It's been with us for decades, this blackmail plot, and we haven't ever listened.
And the motivation for the blackmail?
The motivation of the blackmail was Jesus represented a threat.
To the liaison between the Sadducean leaders who were allies of Rome, and he represented a threat for two reasons.
First of all, Jesus was well known by Tiberius Caesar.
He was known because Jesus' foster father, Joseph of Arimathea, was named by Tiberius Caesar personally as Nobilus Decurio.
In addition, Tiberius Caesar's granddaughter was a fledgling disciple of
Judaism, and she was talking to Tiberius Caesar about Jesus.
And so, on one hand, the Romans were starting to lean toward Jesus, and they actually went
to the...
As I suggested before, they actually went to the floor of the Roman Senate and proposed
that Jesus be raised to the status of God, little g.
So on one hand, Jesus is gaining power in Rome.
On the other side, in the Jewish Sanhedrin, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus had gone to the floor of the Senate three years before the crucifixion and proposed to the Sanhedrin that they integrate Jesus' teachings within their religious traditions.
So Jesus was a political threat?
Exactly.
He was a political threat to only one segment of the population, And that was the allies of the Roman Empire within the Jewish nation, and there's only one group that were allies.
The rest of them hated Rome.
The Pharisees hated Rome.
The Essenes hated Rome.
The common citizens in the street hated Rome.
There was only one group of people who loved Rome and who were political allies, and that was the Sadducees.
And they happened to be the rulers of the Sanhedrin at the moment of the death of Jesus.
Wow.
You write that Pilate, in fact, now here's support for all of this, that Pilate wrote a letter that survives today revealing the fact that he met the resurrected Jesus in the streets after the crucifixion in the company, get this, of 50 armed guards and that this letter survives today in the Royal British Museum.
Is that true?
That is true.
Pontius Pilate, we have forgotten the status of Pontius Pilate.
The Christians for 200 years following the death of Jesus celebrated the birthday of Pontius Pilate as a religious holiday.
They named three of their holy mountains after him.
They raised him to the status of sainthood today in the Byzantine and Coptic Christian religions, he is a saint, and in the Catholic tradition, he is officially declared an innocent and virtuous figure, and you have to ask yourself, why do they consider him so highly when he is the one that supposedly killed Jesus?
And the reason is, is because he converted to Christianity right after the death of Jesus.
He converted to Christianity because he went into the streets, he says it in his own letter, he met the resurrected Jesus, he converted to Christianity, And he was killed in the Praetorium of Pontius Pilate for having participated in the crucifixion.
You gotta remember Pontius Pilate didn't want Jesus dead either.
And so he was killed by Tiberius Caesar for having killed Jesus before Tiberius Caesar could get a royal healing from the hands of Jesus.
That's amazing.
You know, what I'm learning here is amazing.
And so there was a whole lot of politics.
Extremely lot of politics.
It is the key to the secrets of the crucifixion.
And that Pilate converted, yes, as you mentioned, converted to Christianity after meeting Jesus resurrected.
So then, even to the very end, Pontius Pilate Was not outed with regard to the blackmail that had been threatened?
That never got out?
No, it never did because the pilot played the patsy.
You've got to remember, we have evidence everywhere in the Bible for this blackmail scenario.
Herod, for example, was one of the three people responsible for the death of Jesus.
His fathers looked for the baby Jesus and killed babies two years old and under trying to find Jesus.
And does Herod Tetrarch, who was in power at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus, killed his mother, killed his wife, killed his children?
He'd have killed anybody who threatened his life.
And Pontius Pilate sends Christ to Herod and says, do with him as you will.
And did Herod kill Jesus?
No!
Slaughter him like he did his wife and his children?
No!
Why, when he was given the golden opportunity to shed the blood of Christ, the person his father had sought for all of his life, why didn't he kill him?
And I'm telling you why he didn't kill him, because the debate had already been, the blackmail scheme was already in, that they already knew that they could not, that Herod did not want to be the one that kills Christ, because it may have Put him out of favor with the people.
Sure.
And the Sadducees didn't want to be the one to kill Christ because they had a law against murder.
And so they picked the guy they wanted to be responsible.
And that guy was Pontius Pilate.
He was the Patsy in the whole game.
And he was blackmailed into doing what he did.
Even today, we allow people, we entrust our lives to people who are named Pilates.
That's correct.
Glenn, hold on.
It's the top of the hour.
We'll be right back.
this is Coast to Coast AM.
Good morning everybody.
It's great to be here.
Glenn Kimball is here, and we're kind of taking a ride for Easter.
It's a discussion of Jesus, now the politics of the crucifixion.
That's exactly where we're going when we get back.
All right, back to Glenn Kimball.
Hi, Glenn.
How you doing?
I'm very well and very surprised.
Here's another one for you.
As you have mentioned, we are to see again Jesus.
He will come back.
He will once again return.
When you look at the Hindus and you look at the various other religions around the world, why shouldn't we equally believe it possible That their prophecy will be the prophecy that will be accurate.
No, it's a hard question.
Well, I think that the prophecies are so similar, I think that the fundamental origin of all of them is accurate.
Single source.
Pardon?
Single source.
Exactly.
You know, your listeners are probably disoriented to some extent because the link to my site is all messed up.
Would it be alright if I told them that there's an alternative out there?
You betcha.
There's an alternative for those of you who are trying to find the site and it's been crashed.
There's a number where you can get copies of my book.
It's 1-800-500-1847.
Let's be sure what we're talking about here.
1847. Now we're talking about, let's be sure what we're talking about here. Is it the
hidden politics of the crucifixion or your earlier book or both?
Both books are available at that number right now.
All right.
Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus or Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion available at This number right now, 1-800-500-1847.
That's a very easy number, and you actually have operators there now, huh?
Yes, we have a bank of operators, and you know, the great David Sterlin, who was the co-author of The Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion, is with us this evening.
He's also a great fan of Harley Davidson, as I am.
I'm sorry for a political commercial there.
No, that's all right.
But Dave and I have spent many, many hours, and there isn't a A better scholar in the world or a greater man in my personal life than David Sterling, who was the co-author.
He's been the inspiration in many times in my life when I've been discouraged.
Dave, you're out there.
He's a wonderful individual and has vindicated many of these same things.
The way this all came about is he and I had a kitchen table discussion.
One day.
And we were both ancient manuscript specialists, and we began to compare notes about the life and times of Jesus, and we looked at each other and we said, why in the world doesn't the world know these things?
The truths.
And we both agreed that whether we were going to be anonymous for the rest of our lives or not, we were going to dedicate a good portion of our lives to make sure that people knew the historical records, the authentic historical records, which vindicate Jesus from multiple perspectives, especially with regard to the crucifixion and Easter.
How has the reaction been?
The reaction has been phenomenal.
You know, to be honest with you, I figured that someone would raise a cross in my backyard and I'd be hanging there probably this afternoon.
To be honest with you, 99% of the population, to my great surprise, has been delighted.
There are people who have jumped up and they've emailed me by thousands and told me that they've jumped up and down on their beds.
and have celebrated that somebody finally came out and talked about the things that they themselves have found
in their own personal research.
You know, when the site gets back up and running, I have over a million pages of research, of ancient
manuscripts that people can read on my site.
It would take them ten years to read all of the ancient manuscripts posted on the site, and people have come back with their own brands of research, and I have been delighted.
Actually, it had to come through our belt.
It's that open-minded thinking that you are, that I have to give you credit for everything that's happened good to me in recent days.
I'm just very grateful to you.
Thank you.
Why you're getting that reaction?
It's because, you know, modern organized religion serves it up in a certain way, and a lot of people just can't wrap their minds around it properly.
But when they hear you saying, well look, a lot of things went on you really don't know about, you didn't hear about, That really parallel a lot of what happens today.
That we're very human and very good and very bad and just very human.
Even though it's not what they specifically were taught, it validates the real core of what they believe.
And so I think they jump up and down in joy.
I think so.
I think that happens with you all the time, Art.
I hear people jumping up and down on their beds on a number of issues that you've brought to light.
Sometimes in anger, too.
I understand that entirely, and you and I share that feeling identically.
You say that Caesar, in the year 100 A.D., created a law requiring Christians to confess three times, not once but three times, Before they could be fed to the lions.
And that's exactly right.
The Romans did not want to crucify Christians.
We've heard these bloodshed scenarios all through our lives, through the movies and through books, that the Romans were thirsty after the blood of the Jews, and that is not true.
The Jews were the goose that laid the golden egg for the Roman Empire.
They were the gateway between the riches of the Orient And the Mediterranean Sea.
And Herod the King, who was the first political ally of Rome, and was the most recent contact after the conquest of Palestine, had built a seaport, the most modern seaport the world had ever known, built of underwater concrete in Palestine to be the gateway to the East.
And the Jews were the goose that laid the golden egg in terms of taxes for the Romans.
The Romans did not want to crucify or annihilate the Jews.
They were a source of money for these people.
So the only reason that they did this was because of a paradoxical reason.
Tiberius Caesar knew and liked Joseph of Arimathea, the foster father of Jesus.
He knew and liked Jesus.
He wanted to raise him to the status of Godhood.
But when Jesus was crucified, the earthquake in Rome, as well as it did in Jerusalem, And that the dead were rising in Jerusalem, but they also were rising in Rome.
And it scared the kajibis out of Tiberius Caesar.
He turned around and sealed the crypts, all of the tombs in Rome, because of the dead were rising.
It scared him so bad that he went back to Palestine to do what?
Not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg, but to vindicate a god that could cause the earthquake in Rome.
The dead were rising.
Yes.
Those records are missing from our canon, and it's the saddest thing I've ever heard in my life.
Nicodemus records that there were over 500 witnesses to the fact that the great prophets from history, Abraham, Noah, Moses, were walking the streets at the scene of the resurrection of Jesus, lamenting what the Jews had done to Christ.
And the very dead were also rising in Rome.
They scared the Romans half out of their wits.
There are records There are records in Roman history that talk about the deads rising.
They seal the tombs, and as a matter of fact, we've only excavated those tombs in the last 15 years beneath the streets of Rome.
You know, I've heard of the resurrection, of course, of Christ all my life, but not of others.
Jesus said it himself.
He says, I am the first fruits of them that slept.
He was not the only fruit of them that slept.
He was only the first fruits.
And if you read Nicodemus' account of Jesus' descent into the world of the dead, they were waiting to come back and gain their resurrection along with everyone else.
This is why the pharaohs built the resurrection machines in Egypt, which were the great pyramids.
This is why people have been so fascinated with the concept of resurrection forever in every culture of the world.
Wait a minute, slow down.
You're saying the pyramids I've heard them called many things.
Actually, what a lot of people have said is that they believe the pyramids were something that was to guide the soul on its journey in the afterlife.
But you're saying they were mechanisms of resurrection?
They were an attempt on the part of the Egyptians to create an environment for resurrection.
Let me give you a hint here.
Sure.
Back at the time when Joseph, the coat of many colors, the Joseph that was sold into Egypt by his brothers.
Yes.
Now remember, he's in Egypt.
He married an Egyptian princess.
This is 1200 years BC, okay?
Yes.
The lady he married, who was an Egyptian princess, also happened to be his cousin.
And so an Egyptian princess was well-connected, extremely well-informed at the time of the pharaohs about Ancient Hebraic customs, she was a princess for the pharaohs.
These two cultures were merged together, and though they didn't communicate well, though they were not totally intermeshed, they did know about the religious customs of each other, and the great Egyptian culture was a sponge that soaked up the religious cultures that surrounded them.
And one of them was from the ancient Hebraic prophecies of resurrection.
Have you been to Egypt?
Yes.
The pyramids?
Yes.
Did you have that sense when you were there?
You and I both.
To Bethlehem, the birthplace of Christ?
Yes.
That was an amazing experience for me.
I knew, I knew I was in, and I'm going to tell you Glenn, I'm not a really religious person.
I'm kind of spiritual, I'm on a search, but I'm not I'm not a great person of faith, and yet I stood in front of that spot where Jesus was born, and I knew, and I felt everywhere that I was in a very, indeed, special place.
I knew it.
Now, I don't know if that's my brain sort of agreeing with what, you know, everything surrounding me was saying or not, but I think what I felt was real.
Well, there is a special feeling about the actual places and artifacts that were surrounding Jesus, and that was, in fact, the very reason why the pursuit of the artifacts was pursued so intently after the crucifixion.
You've got to remember that the Romans, when they destroyed the Temple of Herod in 70 A.D., and they carted off all the artifacts out of the temple, they did not melt them down and put them into the treasury of Rome.
They preserved the artifacts out of the Temple of Herod, They reported on the pillar that they left at the site of the destruction of the temple, that they took the artifacts to the Pyrenees to preserve them and keep them holy.
And why would the Romans want to keep Hebraic?
Why would they want to do that if they were out throwing the Christians to the lions because they thought them disgusting people?
They did not do that.
And also on that same pillar that was left on the site of the destruction of the temple, the Caesar gave us the reason why he destroyed the temple.
He destroyed the temple not to persecute Jews and Christians, but to vindicate the death of Jesus.
What do you know of the journey of the Covenant of the Ark and where it may be now?
There's a lot of modern day speculation about that.
There's a lot of people who have suggested they know where it is that was a subject of a great expose and documentary recently where some suggest that it may even be in Costa Rica where the Spaniards brought it to this country to carry before them in the destruction of the great American Indian people.
You've got to remember that a thousand Spaniards killed eight million Indians in this country.
This was a religious war for them against the American Indians, and many have thought that perhaps the Ark of the Covenant was brought from It's place in the Pyrenees, which was in Spain by the way, the Pyrenees are in Spain, and taken to this country and left here.
Now there are other people that believe it's in Constantinople or in Northern Africa.
I myself have never seen it, nor would I ever be granted that permission.
I would certainly take that if I were given the opportunity.
But it survives into our day, as do many of the artifacts, and they are kept secret and sacred because of the power that they represent to the people.
Some program that said it is in Northern Africa, as you suggested, and under 24-hour-a-day guard.
Without doubt.
And they showed on television about a year ago the tanks and the armed forces there in Costa Rica surrounding one particular chapel.
And you have to ask yourself, why in the world would there be tanks and an army outside of a church house?
So, if you were in its presence, you would not have a problem going and observing it and looking into it?
Art, I'm as curious as you are.
I would walk into the face of death itself to find that secret out for myself.
You might indeed.
And I might, too.
Yes, I think we'd have to hold hands.
You first.
Now, is it possible that one of the reasons that Pilate didn't want to kill Jesus is that Jesus was, in fact, a Roman citizen?
And what is it that you're suggesting made Jesus a citizen of Rome?
Well, Jesus' foster father, remember that Jesus' earthly father, Joseph, who was married to the Virgin Mary, died when Jesus was about 14 or 15 years old.
Right.
And under Jewish law, the one that took over the protectorship of the family was his foster father, Joseph Baramathea.
But Joseph of Arimathea was named noblest decurio by the Roman Empire and thus made a Roman citizen.
So Jesus' foster father was in fact a Roman citizen and that made his family Roman citizens by law under Roman law.
And so one of the reasons why Pilate totally rejected the idea of crucifying Jesus was because he was a Roman citizen and not just A captive person.
The other reason why Pontius Pilate didn't want to crucify Jesus, there were two other reasons.
One was because his wife was a fledgling disciple of Judaism.
So he had pressure at home.
Right.
But the other reason was, remember that Pontius Pilate was educated at the great Druid universities in England, or in Scotland I should say.
And that was the homeland where Joseph of Arimathea had his tin and lead mines, and both Jesus and Pontius Pilate had attended that great university, and they, at the site of the crucifixion, at the time of the crucifixion, a very strange thing happened.
Pontius Pilate and Jesus exchanged the Druid passwords to enter the Druid debates in order to identify one another.
Now, these are fraternal-type systems, You know, you have a handshake or a salute that you give each other to enter the Masonic Temples or in the Fraternal Orders of the Pirates or in the Templar Movement today or whatever.
So I'm told, yes.
First time callers, area 702-727-1222.
Uh-huh.
This time it was at 26 minutes past the hour.
26 minutes past the hour.
to twenty six minutes past the hour there is really something
going on of course we're going to get a hold of
I'm not going to let it bother me anymore.
I'm just going to get old of Glenn Kimball again.
And I'm not going to let it get under my skin.
Yesterday was really getting under my skin.
But now I'm going to take a different attitude.
And I'm going to just reconnect like that.
I'm not going to let this get to me.
Okay.
So continue.
Very good.
Are we on the air?
Oh, yes.
Very good.
I'm sorry, everybody.
We have the power company giving us trouble today.
I know.
I'm beginning to suspect something's going on, but it's all right.
I hope not, Art.
I hope not.
We can get back to this scenario for a moment.
We must remember that there's another coincidental thing.
If you go back to, once again, Gibbons' book, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, He makes a very, very curious statement.
He says that the Roman armies were rampaging all over the world with the exception of one people.
And those people that they deliberately avoided during the life of Tiberius and Caligula, who was his successor, were the great Druid peoples.
And they avoided them for a reason.
They avoided them because that was the homeland of the great educational institution that was alive and well at the time of Jesus that was educating the sons and daughters of Rome.
They could not send them to Alexandria anymore because at the time of Cleopatra and her war with her little brother Ptolemy, Ptolemy burnt the library of Alexandria in 63 B.C.
and thus destroyed the great educational institution in Egypt.
And the greatest university that survived that time was the emerging University of the Druids in England that had 60,000 students and eight courses of study.
All right, hold it right there.
It's the bottom of the hour.
And we're going to be right back.
I'm not going to let this get me down.
You power nerds, I'm on to you now.
Good morning, everybody.
This is Coast to Coast AF.
And Glenn Kimball is my guest.
He will be right back, and so will we, again and again and again and again.
By the way, for those of you that would like to know more about what you're hearing right now, we have several links on our website for Glenn Kimball We have a link to his book, The Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion, that we've been talking about tonight.
We have a link to his book, Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus, and the website, ancientmanuscripts.com.
All of those links are up there.
All you've got to do is go to my website, www.artbell.com.
Go down till you see the name Glenn Kimball, and click on the link That your heart desires.
All right, Glenn, then who, bottom line, would we say is responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus?
We want to answer that, but can we add the 800 numbers as well?
Oh, yeah, the 800 number for the books, of course we can.
If I can find it.
It's 1-800-500-1847.
It's 1-800-500-1847.
1-800-500-1847.
And they're live operators tonight, so we're in good shape.
That's hard to do.
You know, to line up operators for an all-night shift.
It can be done, but it's not easy.
I begged them.
Did you?
They're good guys.
But you ask a good question, Art.
You ask who really was responsible for the death of Jesus.
Indeed.
And we have to understand, from a political standpoint, who were the only people that stood to gain anything.
Right.
And the only people that stood to gain anything from the death of Jesus was one faction of the Jews who were called Sadducees.
The Pharisees weren't at fault.
The Sadducees were composed about 8% of the population.
The Pharisees composed about 12% of the population.
The rest of the population were Essenes and lay members of the Jewish faith.
But the Sadducees were the rulers.
They were the political allies of Rome.
And Jesus represented a threat To their relationship with Caesar, because he favored Jesus so highly, and because the great Joseph of Arimathea was a member of the Sanhedrin, so was Nicodemus, and these two gentlemen were Pharisees, and not particularly fond of the Sadducees, and they had gotten the vote, they had swayed the majority of the vote on the floor of the Sanhedrin,
to favor accepting Jesus as the Messiah within their own traditions, and the Sadducees saw themselves on the way out of power, on the way out of a job, on the way out of their prestigious positions as rulers of the city, and they were the ones that were most threatened by Jesus.
We have to understand that the night of the crucifixion There was a police force that arrested Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.
The head of that police force was the son of Caiaphas, a Jew.
This police force, the Sadducees, were such good allies of the Romans that they were allowed to have an autonomous police force.
They were not Roman soldiers that arrested Jesus.
They were the police force of the Sanhedrin itself that arrested Jesus that night.
And the evidence is clear in the Bible, because who did they take Jesus to the very first thing?
Did they take him to a Roman jail?
No.
Did they take him to Pontius Pilate?
No.
The first place that police force took Jesus was the House of Annas, who was the father-in-law and the former head of the Sanhedrin.
The next place that Jesus was taken that night was to Caiaphas, and that reveals the secret of the blackmail, that these two men were behind the arrest of Jesus.
Their own sons were the ones that were the militia that arrested Jesus.
They were the ones that did this deed, and they were behind the crucifixion of Jesus.
Boy, I'll tell you, you're teaching a lot of people new things tonight.
How do you think the reaction to all this is going to be?
This does not deny anybody's tradition.
This is just the rest of the story, Art.
This vindicates Jesus for who He is.
And I encourage everybody to go back to their own tradition with a renewed sense of faith and hope that Jesus was in fact a real person.
We have been so distanced because of our defensive nature about ancient manuscripts that we have lost the real Jesus in history.
And I hope that people will take this information back to their own traditions, back within their own chapels, and use it to help them restore their faith and hope that Jesus was, in fact, the Savior of the world, as I believe Him to be.
Alright, let's find out exactly what some do think, shall we?
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Art Bell and Dr. Kimball.
Hi.
Hello, how are you doing?
OK.
Dr. Kendall, you have some pretty interesting things to say.
I am a born-again Christian, and I've been listening to some of the things that you've been saying.
You're going to have to speak up a little, sir.
How's that?
Oh, that's better.
OK.
I think there's another faction as far as the crucifixion of Christ that you may have missed.
And that just gives me a little bit nervous.
That's all right.
What was the faction?
Was that another reason why they crucified Jesus?
Yes.
The fact that he said he was God.
And that fact resonates throughout the whole New Testament.
Fair comment, Glenn?
Yeah, that didn't offend the Romans.
Tiberius Caesar proposed the idea that Jesus would be a god, little g, in front of the Senate.
It didn't offend the Romans at all.
What about Jesus?
What was his response to that proposal?
Jesus stood firm, fast, that he was the way, the truth, and the light, and he that believeth in him, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Obviously referring, once again, to the resurrection.
But he had made a comment in the streets at the time of the crucifixion that you could tear down this temple and I would rebuild it in three days.
That made him a large target because the Pharisees even then began to worry because they were the great wealthy people in town and they didn't like any destruction of property.
They didn't want to have any invitation for people to destroy their property.
Especially the religious holy shrines.
And so there were, in fact, some Pharisees in the crowd who were concerned.
But they weren't the instigators of the crucifixion.
The instigators were, in fact, the Sadducees.
And the Sadducees and the Pharisees didn't get along very well with each other.
But again, the question is, was he generally in agreement with this representation of him as a god?
Or did those words, that I am the way, I am the light, Did it just sort of underscore and say, yes, I am?
Politically, is that the way it came out?
Very definitely politically it came out.
We only have a fraction of the words that Jesus said in his whole life.
We call those words Agrippa as they are recorded in history.
But everyone who knew Jesus, his family, his surroundings, all of them knew that this great Messiah would be the Son of God, the Savior of the world.
The prophecies were clear all the way back from the time of Daniel and Micah.
That this person who was coming into the world would be a supernatural being on one half and mortal on the other half.
And yes, he knew exactly and perpetrated exactly who he was in his lifetime, and everyone who knew him knew that.
Remember the last time we were on the air, I think I asked you, if we could get a sample of the DNA of Jesus, would we discern, in your view, a difference in the DNA, some small Difference between human DNA and that of Jesus.
Well, strangely enough, I'm a well-trained microbiologist as a part of my major at college.
Yeah, I think we would see a difference.
But that difference might be as only speculation because I don't have his DNA under a microscope.
I'd love to have his DNA under a microscope and test it for myself.
But his mother was mortal.
He was born into the flesh.
He had blood Blowing through his veins, and I suspect that he would have every bit of the genetic code that we have in our day.
But I imagine, not only imagine, but I would presume that there would be differences.
And if those differences could be documented one, discovered one, then documented, and then duplicated, suppose we could modify a present human DNA structure Uh, to duplicate that which we found of the structure in Jesus.
You asked the perfect Easter question, Art.
Because someday we'll all be resurrected and have that very characteristic in our veins, too.
That was the whole plan.
That was the scenario.
That was the reason for the resurrection from the beginning.
Well, I look around the world right now, it's obvious there's none of that DNA walking about on the planet presently.
No, no there's not.
I think we won't have time to develop that technology before this apocalyptic era and the great millennial era of peace will come into pass.
It's getting close.
We are getting close, and perhaps the very reason that there will be a millennium, a thousand years of peace, will be because of a DNA change of some sort.
That is an interesting speculation.
Oh, it sure is.
Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Dr. Glynn Kimball, hi.
Yes, hi Art, this is Karen in Houston.
Hi Karen, yell at us, fine.
All right.
Glenn, it's so good to hear you again.
On the term chosen people, I have sort of another understanding of that terminology.
I kind of think when any person claims to be a chosen people, I think it's more like they were people chosen.
If that makes a difference.
You see what I'm saying?
I do indeed.
Like Jesus criticized the Sadducees and the Sanhedrin for the knowledge that they had that they were given to share, and yet they kept it for themselves.
They were chosen to disperse certain information, but they didn't.
And that makes a distinction in that term, chosen.
I agree 100%, and not only that, but we have to refer to the fact that the great Islamic community claims themselves to be chosen.
The great Hindu community claims itself to be chosen.
Every single culture in the world that had it dealing with Jesus claimed to be chosen.
We just surfaced with the Christian version of it.
Right, but when you are chosen to perform a certain task, that is different than saying that you are a chosen people above all others.
And I agree on that distinction entirely with you, ma'am, and a very well put point.
Alright, and on another term, Jesus was the man, Christ was the spirit.
Christ forever, Jesus for the age that he was in.
Does that make sense?
It does.
In fact, the name Jesus means healer, the name Christ means anointed with oil, the name Messiah means the anointed king with oil.
And so we can put arbitrary labels on it, but those are the denotative or the epistemological roots of those names.
Right.
And when we consider Jesus Christ the Nazarene, wouldn't it be, instead of him being named after the place supposedly Nazareth, wouldn't Nazarene come from Nazar, which means one who is set apart?
Absolutely.
As a matter of fact, the prophecy said that he would be a Nazarene, We know that Samson was a Nazirite, and those are two derivatives of the same group.
So, as a matter of fact, at the time of Jesus, when he was born, there was no such town as Nazareth.
Right.
In fact, the maps of Judea at the time of the birth of Jesus don't even register that town.
He was raised in a town that subsequently became called Nazareth.
Yes.
Recorded in history.
And in the early establishment of the church, as we know it, the one known as the Christian Church, which has its base with Rome, during Alexandrian times, the library at Alexandria, wasn't there a young mathematician's daughter, Hypatia?
Are you familiar with her?
Yes.
Can you tell us, please, some more about her?
I just know a very little bit, but that she was slain because she would tell the truth and would distinguish between fact and fiction, and the early establishment of the Church, when they were trying to pull together paganism, and what, you know, was going on at the time, as far as the Messiah coming, and all of these kinds of things.
It was quite a soup, and she tried to keep things straight and in order, the laws of the universe, etc. and the separation of
religion from all of the other, and it all kind of got mixed up and she was destroyed in the process.
That's true. She was a great mathematician and she was actually considered a priestess in many senses
of the word, and anyone who studied the art of mathematics in those days, much like the Pythagorean
theorem was considered a holy theorem at one point in time, many people were destroyed
because of their knowledge of mathematics and astronomy. And she portrays this incident very
accurately, and there were many people who were persecuted in Egypt, in Palestine, in Rome, etc., because
of their secret knowledge of mathematics and astronomy. Very good, ma'am. Very
interesting, actually.
And, in a lot of ways, with sciences that are kind of out on the edge right now, that occurs today.
People are persecuted, perhaps in different ways, academically drawn and quartered for things they suggest that challenge the present paradigms.
So, not a lot has changed, has it?
I agree 100% with that.
That people on the outer edges of human experience are always persecuted.
It takes 20 years for us to get a piece of history accepted into a history book.
And so, you know, as a result of that, fewer and fewer people go out on a limb.
Stay right where you are, Glenn.
We'll be right back.
Dr. Kimball.
It's been a too long time with no peace of mind.
Oh, me too.
You know, she's coming to the desert in April.
I'm gonna go see her again.
Crystal Gale.
Stay right there.
We'll be right back.
We walk around with him.
We eat dinner with him.
He's not gone.
He never left.
Interestingly enough, the sightings of the resurrected Jesus continued until the 5th century A.D., where he walked around with the people and taught amongst the people.
The sightings of Jesus didn't discontinue until the onslaught of the Dark Ages.
As a matter of fact, there are many scholars today that secretly believe that the reason we call them the Dark Ages is because Jesus said, I am gone, and I will not return until my second coming.
And as a matter of fact, on the tomb of King Arthur, which was the lead-lined tomb of the minds of his family, the descendant of Jesus, he says that he will return with his ancestor Christ in the second coming, and that there would be no more appearances of the resurrected Jesus walking the earth.
Well, that's slightly irreverent, but I cannot help but suggest that we're still getting sightings of Elvis today.
I thought that was you, Art.
You know, it's been great talking to you guys.
Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
Congratulations again on being a big shot.
You know, that's pretty cool, I think.
Thank you very much.
I don't know about being a big shot, but attaining the largest listening audience and number of affiliates, you know, in the history of nighttime talk radio is pretty cool.
All right, Doctor, here's a good one for you.
Since Easter cometh, I wish to ask you about what remnants remain of actually, I guess, the crucifixion.
How did we get from there to Easter eggs?
I've never ever understood that.
Well, the legend of the Easter egg is very ancient.
Mary Magdalene, when she came to prepare the body of Christ finally, you see Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus had already thrown 100 pounds of precious spices over the body.
You remember the earthquakes and the lightnings probably frightened them too, and they didn't prepare the body properly, but however on the On Easter morning, Mary Magdalene came to the site where there were, once again, the Sadduceean police force guarding the tomb of Jesus.
She took boiled eggs with her to bribe the guards into allowing her to prepare the body properly, and that's where we get the concept of Easter eggs.
Boiled eggs were of that rare a nature that you could bribe somebody with them?
That was a treat.
It was a picnic.
It was a of a delicacy of food, or I'm sure she had some sort of
special recipe in her mind and probably prepared them and the guards themselves having to
watch probably 10-hour shifts were probably hungry.
And she knew that. Again I'm still focusing a little bit on the resurrection not just of Jesus but
of other dead. How many?
How widespread?
What reaction was there?
I mean, this must, aside from the resurrection of Jesus, this had to have been such an event that there must have been so many recordings of this event, because people just don't come back to life like that.
There were 500 recorded witnesses of the dead rising in Jerusalem alone that are recorded in history.
Uh, it wasn't just one account of Nicodemus, there were 500 of them.
In addition, there were many, many similar numbers of recordings in Rome, and in fact in other places around the world at that time.
So, the dead rising and roaming the streets was not a popular topic.
It was actually a spooky topic for these people, and was buried because they didn't have any traditions to account for this phenomenon.
It's always been a spooky topic for me, ever since the movies, the living dead movies when I was a child.
Those were scary, scary movies.
Well, these dead rising weren't dead in the corrupted sense of the word.
They were alive in a resurrected body.
Resurrected, I understand.
That was a...
We have the account in my book, at the end of my book, where two of the resurrected beings came back to the floor of the Sanhedrin and left witness records independently in separate rooms to testify and witness that Jesus had in fact been resurrected and that they were among the fruits of the resurrection.
And those records survive in our day and are in my book, The Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion.
Alright, and I want to plug your book again.
Hidden Politics of the Crucifixion is the latest book, but by no means, it's not the only book you can get.
You can get Hidden Stories of the Childhood of Jesus.
That, too, is probably worth some discussion this evening.
It's fascinating.
And there's a 24-hour number, and there are people actually standing by Right now, who will take your order?
The number is 1-800-500-1847.
That's 1-800-500-1847.
And, of course, you can get them at Amazon.com.
We're linked through all of that, if that's the way you buy your books.
You know, I heard that Amazon.com just bought Broadcast.com.
Correct.
Amazing thing going on right now out there.
First time calling online, you're on the air.
Hi.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi, Art.
Hi, Dr. Campbell.
I was just calling to make a comment about your Ark of the Covenant deal in Costa Rica.
Oh, yes.
Yes, yes.
I was born in Costa Rica.
And the only church I could think of that it would be in, it's called La Basilica de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles.
Así es, pues.
Oh yeah?
You speak Spanish, huh?
That's the place I was thinking of, but the one thing you said about him, about tanks and guards being there, there is no standing army in Costa Rica publicly.
And I've never been there, so I cannot represent it.
I just saw it on a documentary on television.
Oh, really?
Now, there are, however, lots of armed people in Costa Rica.
Yes, there's the Civil Guard, which is basically a civilian police force.
Right, and they're very well armed.
Yeah, but there's no standing army.
And what's the name of the documentary, if you don't mind us asking?
It was on the Learning Channel, and I apologize, I don't recall exactly the title of it.
But it amazed me because it showed photos of, apparently the tanks were there during the Easter season or during this time when the high priest goes in and visits this supposed Ark of the Covenant there and I thought it was a fascinating comment and I don't know, you're asking a guy who has never seen the Ark of the Covenant personally, but I would be the first in line if they would allow me to butt in line.
Oh yeah, I'll be right behind you.
Well, congratulations.
Push me forward, will you?
It just struck me as odd that you'd mention my country.
I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Alright, you bet.
Thank you very much for calling.
Would you make a trip if you thought you could find it, Doctor?
I certainly would.
I would fund it myself.
It's not only a sense of curiosity, but you mentioned earlier the overwhelming sense of omniscience that you have when you meet history face-to-face and what it does to change your life.
For me, I would go.
If I was commanded by the heavens not to enter, I would not go.
Told not to go by my mother, I wouldn't go.
Mom, you're out there, I know.
But if no one told me no, I could not go and wouldn't prevent me.
You'd be on your way.
I'd be on my way.
I'm the first man.
I want to be Christopher Columbus, just like everyone else.
Well, you might be a pillar of salt, but anyway, you'd go.
I'm Art Bell, and I'd go, too.
This is Coast to Coast AM and we will be right back.
There's a boy on a western bay and it serves a hundred ships a day.
Lonely sailors pass the time away and talk about their homes.
And there's a girl in this harbor town and she works laying whiskey down.
They say Brandy, fetch another round, she serves them whiskey and wine.
The sailors say Brandy, you're a fine girl, what a good wife you would be.
Fetch another round, steal a sailor up the sea.
Guy Danion going to the good place and the good gal Sarah going to the bad place.
Well, you know, we can talk about a number of people who've had a variety of near-death experiences that were both good and bad, and my suggestion is that the portals to the heavens are many and porous.
We talk about George Ritchie.
I don't know if you remember reading his book, Return from Tomorrow.
It was one of the very first NDE books out there, even before Raymond Moody was involved.
Dr. Ritchie talks about his visit to the place of torment in the plains of the wilderness of mortality.
And this phenomenon is common in a near-death experience where they talk about a place where people are in torment, having troubles.
This is to be distinguished from a hill of fire, a brimstone fire, but it's very similar to that experience.
Pretty close.
Sounds like hell to me.
Yeah, it's not exactly a party.
Since you did hear Sarah's NDE, What was your take on that?
I mean, it was so remarkable, so spontaneous, so obviously told in absolute truth whether or not it really happened.
She certainly believed it happened.
How did you react to that when you heard it?
I believed that she was telling us the truth.
She went through one of the portals that allowed her to see that experience first.
If you notice one curious thing about NDE experiences that might help us here explain this phenomenon that you're talking about, that when you pass on, one of the facilities that you have in an out-of-body experience like an NDE is the fact that you have multiple perceptions and the ability to see what you will to see.
Perhaps she was afraid at the moment of death, and that fear launched her into this experience I noticed that many people who come back from NDE, like Betty Edie and Danny and etc., they talk about being able to see out of their fingertips.
They talk about the ability to go wherever they wanted to go and learn whatever they wanted to learn at will.
That's right.
And perhaps what she did at that moment in time, unconsciously or deliberately, I don't know, was to enter a portal of She may have been afraid of this experience called death, and that may have taken her through the avenue of seeing something she really didn't want to see.
Many of us are defensive creatures.
Many of us are afraid, and it is our fears that cause most of our problems for us.
And Jesus talked about fear many, many times in biblical history and in extra-biblical history.
That is why he did not use the concept of fear in his doctrines, or in his teachings, or in his ministry.
Because fear takes you to a different place than does the concept of love and hope.
Then why are we to be God-fearing?
I didn't hear that particularly out of the mouth of Jesus, though he did intimate that a couple of times in his life.
I've never been able to wrap my mind around that.
I think if you were to go back to the original Aramaic, it does not suggest God-fearing.
It means God-respectful.
We'd have to talk to Eric Rocco, who has done some of the great translations from the original Aramaic Bible that was found in the Vatican.
And by the way, those books are hosted on the site as well, and they're hard to get a hold of.
But I think the translations of God-fearing are probably a problem more in translation and the verbiage with them.
And in the connection with the word fear, then they are literal.
And by the way, those eggs of bribery you talked about earlier, those hard boiled eggs, Dave in Chicago wonders if they might have been deviled.
Listen, a lot of people want to talk to you.
I'm not expecting an answer to that.
First time caller on the line, you're on the air with Dr. Kimball.
Hi.
Is that me?
That's you, all right.
This is Paul in Wichita Falls.
Hi, Paul.
I was on 570 Cliff out of Dallas, and right now we have a thunderstorm, so it's hard to hear you on the radio.
Well, apparently you're dredging something out.
Well, thank you very much for taking my call, Mr. Bell.
This is Dr. Kimball.
Yes.
Dr. Kimbler, do you know Vindal Jones, or have you ever heard of Vindal Jones?
Very much so.
Okay.
Well, I'm scheduled to go on his next dig, hopefully in April.
Will you tell Vindal Jones to call me, please?
I certainly will, sir.
My next question was, and I think you've already answered it for me, I've been on a quest and, excuse me, I'm extremely nervous.
I've never been on a talk show.
That's all it is, is talk, so don't worry about it.
Well, that's something everybody tells me I'm good at.
So anyway, I've been on a quest for some commentaries on the Old Testament written before the first century A.D.
Would that be available on your website, sir?
Yes, there's links.
You're going to have to dig for them, but yes, there are.
Okay.
There's so much information there, sir, that it would take you the next ten years to assimilate it, to read it, to even be exposed to it.
Well I understand, but I've been looking for a place to start, so I guess I've got my work
cut out for me.
Yes, come right over and visit us, we'd be delighted, and my email is there and you may
ask questions and I respond to all email.
Well the problem is I'm computer illiterate, and I was going to tell Art if I ever needed
any, excuse me, if anybody ever needed to contact me, it would have to be through a
post office box, but it is Y2K compliant and it's virus free.
That's right, good for you.
By the way, they caught the little crud that apparently or allegedly created the Melissa virus, named after, I might add, a topless dancer.
He'll be going away for a while.
This is very interesting, Glen.
A thousand years ago, this comes from a person, a very good friend of mine, about a thousand years ago, a very old and very wise Kabbalistic scholar was challenged by the Inquisition to summarize the teachings of the Judeo-Christian Bible and all of the holy books of the world's major religions while standing on one foot Without a pause, he complied, balancing himself as he instructed, stating, quote, love thy neighbor as thyself, all the rest is commentary.
I think it's an absolute... Jesus said it himself that these are the two great commandments, to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself.
We even get it more if we look into the extra-biblical documents.
Jesus' little brother Thomas, who was called Judas Didymus Thomas, biblically he's recorded as Judas, not to be confused with Judas Iscariot, and Didymus meaning twin.
He was the look-alike brother of Jesus, not the literal twin of Jesus, but that very comment is recorded by Jesus' little brother Thomas in the Gospel of Thomas as well.
All right, a little time before the top of the hour, Wild Card Line.
You're on the air with Dr. Kimball and Art Bell.
Hello there.
Hello, Art.
Yes, sir.
Good morning.
Good morning, Dr. Kimball.
Good morning.
I'd like to touch on, once again, I know a previous caller talked about Lawrence Gardner's book, Bloodline of the Holy Grail.
He makes a contention there which struck a chord with me of a previous book that I had read before called Holy Blood, Holy Grail.
Regarding the offspring that Jesus had, and that they survived, and are supposedly some of the royal families of the European dynasty.
I'd like to get your comment on that.
Well, not only is Dr. Gardner correct about that, but the royal families throughout history were intermingled and related to Jesus in some way, shape, or form.
We have to remember That Jesus' grandmother was born in England.
She was born in England because her family was the Royal House of David and had to escape the Babylonian conquest in the 6th century B.C.
She only returned back to Palestine to marry someone of her own faith a generation before the birth of Jesus.
And not only was her royal family living in England at that time, but also the royal family of the Greeks who had fled the Trojan Wars, and also the royal families of many civilizations who were conquered by other civilizations.
But royal families had to get out of town.
They took their wealth with them.
They took it to England with them, which was the safest place on the earth, sequestered by an isthmus of water.
And these royal families intermingled and intermarried.
And in fact, Jesus himself Had Greek royal blood in him as well as Judaic royal blood in him.
And today, the descendants of Jesus are in fact representative in the royal families of Europe.
Dr. Gimbel, we've got to hold it there.
Clock says we've got to go.
We'll be right back.
This is Coast to Coast AM.
I know what the illness of self-rejection and those kinds of things are.
I I have emerged in the last five years having left my old bad habits.
And have emerged into a new believer in Christ.
Dr. Kimball, that's such good news.
But on the night he died, he said, I won't drink of the fruit of the vine until I drink it anew in the kingdom.
He thinks he's coming back here to drink some more.
Jesus is in denial.
God has the plan.
God made AA, and now they're going to send Jesus back.
And I hope that he doesn't drink, I guess.
Jesus said one thing in the Gospel of Thomas.
He said, it's not what you put into your body that defiles a man, it's what comes forth out of your mouth that defiles a man.
And Jesus was found in the company of all of the visiting dignitaries from foreign countries, and was invited to do so because he himself was from the Royal House of David and well respected amongst the Sanhedrin, the Romans, and everybody else in town, and everyone else in other cultures.
And so when they came to town, or when Jesus was found in the company of anyone, he was the target of the visits of the highest dignitaries in the world, which is evidence from the fact right from his birth that he was visited by the royal magi from the East, who came to visit him at his birth, and that scenario continued throughout his life.
He ate and supped and drank with them on those occasions, and made many, many friends amongst other cultures through his participation.
In fact, the resurrected Jesus came back, And for the stories of his resurrected visits throughout Europe, throughout Asia, throughout Palestine, all are accompanied by scenarios of him eating with them, them being able to touch his hands and feet.
And he's participating with them in their dining experiences.
All right.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Glenn Kimball.
Hello.
Hello, Arne.
Hi.
Hello, Glenn.
This is Frosty from Louisville, Kentucky.
Thanks, Arne.
My friends know who I am.
I'd like to congratulate you on being number one there at night.
Thank you.
I have a question that's been plaguing me since the beginning of my thoughts, and I was hoping a good doctor could answer it for me.
And I've rarely heard anybody ask this question before, but what came before God, capital G?
Well, the ancient manuscripts talk about there being an unbegotten one.
We speak of Jesus as being the only begotten, but there are many, many manuscripts talking about an unbegotten entity in the heavens.
Oh, okay.
That clears up a little bit.
Is there any information that I could get?
Gee, where he began and what he did when he came into existence, that is a mystery that
I know not of, other than the fact that the ancient records from a number of different
sources talk about him being the unbegotten.
Oh, well, okay.
That clears it up a little bit.
Is there any information that I could get?
Would it be on your website?
I can link up to it.
Why don't you email me and I'll look around.
And you'll look around for it?
Do you want to give your email address out so people can contact you?
Sure.
It's G Kimball, K-I-M-B-A-L-L, at the letter X and then M-I-S-S-I-O-N dot com.
Wait a minute.
G Kimball at the letter X and then what?
M-I-S-S-I-O-N, Xmission dot com.
And that's not a, that's not a hidden code.
I don't own the company, X-Mission.
It's a, it's a local provider.
Provider, right.
Alright, G. Kimball at X-Mission.com.
Yes.
Alright, send us an email.
Thank you Art, and thanks for taking my call, and y'all have a good morning.
Alright, thank you sir, and take care.
West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Kimball.
Hello.
Hi Art, I am Dr. Kimball.
Hello.
Oh yeah, I'm listening to you.
I think you might be interested in the start on the KNFO.
It's FM.
Yes, sir.
Out of the Roaring Fork Valley in Colorado.
Well, I'll tell you what.
We're on more and more and more FM stations.
FM stations are quickly learning that there's lots and lots of music all the way across the dial, and if they appear suddenly with something intellectually stimulating as an alternative, they win.
Yeah, it's a good Hey, I got just a couple of points I want to make, but then
I want to leave with a question and then hang up and listen to the answer.
Okay.
Hey, first of all, can I give you guys a website you love that I found on the internet?
Well, I don't do that.
And the reason I don't do that is because I'm sure you are well-intentioned, but I've
had several people give me website addresses that ended up taking them to 18-year-olds
who bear it all, you know, that kind of thing.
So I don't do it on the air unless I check it out first.
Well, it's about the Great Pyramid anyway.
I understand.
Oh, and there is a mention of the Great Pyramid, not specifically Great Pyramid, but a reference to it in Isaiah 19 and 20.
And you may find that.
Oh, there is?
Yeah, that's in the Bible.
And let's see, the other thing was Oh yeah, if you want to find out about the Ark of the Covenant, if you think it's possible, talk to a man named Saddam Hussein.
I have documentation that shows that he actually has the Ark of the Covenant.
They found it during the Iran-Iraq War.
And I could provide you with that as well if you'd like.
I'd be very interested in any documentation.
If I can get you our websites, Art, you'd probably want to put a link up to them.
All you've got to do is email me the websites and let me check them out first.
Okay, and the last point before the question was, a friend of mine sent you a note about his wife produced a song called Y2K When You Can Get Away.
And you'd love it, Art.
You have to hear this.
All right.
And you can download it and listen to it on the legal musical download, whatever the... I think it's... I'm not sure if it's Amazon or what.
All right.
You'll like that.
And the other... the question I had was, how, Dr. Kimball, do you reconcile the... the only sign that Jesus gave for the proof of his mission?
To the people who were, the Sanhedrin and so forth, who were questioning him as being three days and three nights before the resurrection, being 72 hours, and how the way it's celebrated by the Christians only gives about a day and a half, from Friday morning to Sunday, Friday afternoon to Sunday morning.
Because it's actually from Thursday, Wednesday, from Thursday night From Friday night until Sunday night, I think it was Sunday night that the apostles were in the upper chambers, that's when the body, being the believers, resurrected in their knowledge and belief of what Jesus was actually trying to tell them, because they thought he was going to be the second Messiah, and not the one that was going to be killed.
But I was wondering how you reconciled that, how you worked that out, or if you had looked into that very much.
Actually, Art, it's a pretty good question, because there is a discrepancy in the Bible itself.
All the Gospels, with the exception of John, suggest that Jesus was raised on the third day, which was the Sabbath.
However, the Gospel of John places the Last Supper on the day of Passover, which was the Sabbath day.
So there is a discrepancy in the Gospels themselves as to which day, in fact, Jesus was crucified and which day he was resurrected.
Most of us don't ask that profound a question, and so we don't really ask the question.
Uh, but there is a conflict in the Scriptures themselves, and most of that can be resolved by the fact that the three of the Gospels that were written, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, were written long after the death of Jesus.
None of those mention Joseph of Arimathea at all.
The only Gospel that mentions Joseph of Arimathea was the eyewitness Gospel of John.
Alright, Doctor, hold on.
We're at the bottom of the hour.
We'll come back.
I want to talk a little bit about conflict in scriptures.
I do have a kind of a secret back-channel communication system to the technician at Broadcast.com in Dallas, and he absolutely affirms for me that Yahoo did my Broadcast.com for 5.7 Billion dollars.
He also says they're all a bunch of yahoos and I wouldn't work for them on a bet.
He says I'm quitting as soon as they take over.
Oh no, wait a minute.
He didn't say that.
He said, let's see, what did he say?
They're a top internet company.
We're very pleased about it.
Won't be finalized for a few months, so tech changes are not yet to be seen.
Fingers are crossed.
That's what he really said.
Anyway, good luck to you guys.
Big fish keep gobbling the little fish, and bigger fish gobble the medium-sized fish, and that's the way the world works.
We'll be right back.
Oh, forgive me.
I've just got to pull the words together.
But the temple worship and the priestly line that was ensconced, you know, was in place at the time of Jesus was not linear.
You know, it didn't go back.
It was an appointed priesthood.
And I've just been examining and exploring the indications that there were two different calendars that were used.
There were many Essenes.
In fact, the Essenes didn't hold to the The priests and the timing of the sacrifices that were in place at the time that Jesus was there, and what did it was that earlier caller trying to place the timing of Passover, and you were saying that maybe it was a discrepancy, and I'm wondering if it just might have been simply the difference between the 360-day calendar, which placed Passover on an earlier day,
And the 365-day lunar calendar that had come into practice.
Could you comment on that?
I think that's such a brilliant comment, and I think you've got to the core of much of the problems preceding the century of 533 A.D.
You see, the calendars were not standard.
They did not share calendars.
In fact, they didn't even share calendars within a common culture.
That's one of the reasons why Dionysus Ignatius was commanded by Caesar in 533 AD to standardize a calendar system.
It was partially an economic issue because they would set dates and times for people to meet merchant vessels and to do business transactions.
And because they used different calendar systems, they couldn't transact business.
And so Dionysus Ignatius creates our calendar for us from the year 533 AD.
However, he goofed.
He was originally instructed by Caesar to use the beginning of the Roman Empire when Romulus and Remus founded the city of Rome.
However, with the onslaught of Christianity, Dionysius decided and convinced Caesar to use the year of Jesus' birth as the year zero, but he missed in that one too.
You notice a very coincidental thing between 33 AD and 533 AD. They both have a 33 in them.
Dionysius presumed that Jesus was born or died 500 years prior to that celebration when he created
the calendar.
He missed the date by seven years.
Well, the aspect that I find interesting, and again I'm just in my walk and again it's I don't I have not
In fact, I do feel like another earlier call, like a chosen one, one that the Creator of the universe found and allowed me to see, you know, just the littlest bit of who this Yeshua, you know, this Jesus Christ is.
And one of the things that I'm seeing is that, well, one of the things that kept me from seeing is what I've coined a phrase as is churchianity.
Having very little, just a great number of traditions.
And Jesus, in fact, spoke of the traditions of the Pharisees that rendered the Word of God null.
And, Art, you'll recognize a null meter.
And that's a word that indicates current and power.
And that's what traditions do.
That's what churchianity has done.
You notice the same 2,000 year number that we're coming up with.
It was 2,000 years between the giving of the law and when Jesus came to finally say, wait a minute, you know.
Churchianity.
I'm going to hold on to that one if you don't mind.
Please do, because it, for me, has helped me a lot.
Okay, we're woefully short on time.
Thank you very, very much for the call.
Churchianity.
Well, West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Dr. Kimball, and not a lot of time left, I'm afraid.
Hello.
Yes, hello, Art Bell and Dr. Kimball.
It's so good to get you, because they've been doing just me right here.
And I'm on the West of the Rockies line, but I'm located in the central area of North America, up in Canada.
And it's so good to hear your program.
I missed the first three hours, unfortunately.
Well, I'm glad you have, but time is short.
Okay, I have read through the Bible at times, but I'm not one of those to memorize all the areas and things in, you know, like as in verses and words, etc.
But I had found an area in Matthew somewhere that, going back to how Jesus was accused of all kinds of things, Including smoking flax!
And, you know, it kind of makes me wonder if what they were talking about, smoking flax, I mean, he was alleged to have, you know, been in gluttony and drunkenness and smoking flax.
I want to ask if there's any evidence in his studies that found any kind of signs of that and what is now like in my current situation
and I could go on quite at length here.
No you can't though because we don't have the time so the question actually is somewhat of
a duplicate of one we had just a little while ago. You want to comment again doctor?
Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
Well, there we go again.
There we go again.
Now, that is so unfair that we would lose Dr. Kimball in the very last moments of the show.
I'm not going to let that happen.
We're going to get him right back so we can say goodbye.
Astounding.
Just absolutely astounding.
We're going to have to check into what's going on.
I am here.
Good, doctor.
We're coming to the end of it, but you were about to say, before, we were so rudely interrupted.
Yes, Jesus lived an exemplary life, and we can talk about those who may have criticized some of his personal behaviors, but they were not the eyewitnesses of Jesus.
Those who knew him best commented on the exemplary nature of his life, his sacrifices, etc., and not only that, but the fact that he was a great one to fast, he was a great one to control his urges, his life, his times, his behaviors.
There are many historical and detailed conflicts in scripture.
that he might have been a drunkard or a pot smoker or something like that were
critiques from a distance not those who knew him best. The one thing I wanted to
get in you mentioned a conflict in Scripture are there many?
There are many historical and detailed conflicts in Scripture they can be
resolved oftentimes by coordinating calendars coordinating festivals
and comparing documents back and forth we have to remember that the scribes
were an imperfect system
They recorded, oftentimes, interpreted many of the sayings of Jesus and many of the things in history from their own perspective, rather than from the perspective of the person saying the words.
The scribes were an actual religious group, though they were literally the secretaries
of history.
But they were given the freedom and free agency to add their own interpretations into the
potpourri of what emerged into our time.
Doctor, you are a wonderful guest, and I hope that everybody will call and order your book.
Do it, folks.
It's 1-800-500-1847.
That's a very easy number to remember.
1-800-500-1847.
And, Doctor, of course, you will come back to us once again.
I shall indeed, Art.
Thank you so much for your help.
Good night, Doctor.
Good night, sir.
Well, folks, that's it.
We are out of time.
I will be back Monday night, Tuesday morning.
We've got a whale of a lineup for you next week.
In the meantime, I hope you have a good weekend.
From the high desert, I'm Art Bell.
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