Albert Taylor, author of Soul Traveler, reveals suppressed NASA-era reincarnation accounts—like his own 40% withheld experiences—and contrasts ancient "primitive" civilizations with advanced ruins like 14th-century B.C. irrigation systems in Greece’s Dicdian Mountains, arguing souls evolve across lifetimes via verifiable past-life memories and psychokinetic abilities, such as spoon-bending. Callers debate OBEs, including a Texas town’s February 8th paramilitary "black helicopter" chaos, while Taylor links Roswell’s military transparency to broader spiritual truths, like Zen Buddhism’s eternal consciousness in animals. Near-death stories, including Daniel’s morgue awakening and Chernobyl predictions, challenge science’s dismissal of post-death phenomena, suggesting a higher self beyond ego-driven fear—though Bell insists dualistic forces (God/devil) persist. Taylor’s Soul Traveler and March 12–14 Boulder conference aim to bridge skepticism with documented spiritual experiences. [Automatically generated summary]
Well, man, there's no way you can just not get chills with that song.
There's nobody like that.
nobody Well, there's always things I forget, so I've got a couple of notes for you.
Note number one.
Welcome WSGWAM in Saginaw, Michigan.
Now taking the show seven nights a week.
Good to have you with us, Saginaw.
That's one.
Two, Albert Taylor, author of Soul Traveler, it's going to be up shortly.
We're going to talk about a lot more than Soul Travel this time.
Then, I'm supposed to remind you, if you have a computer, Broadcast.com is coming to see me all the way from Dallas.
And there's this new, it's called a frame rate line or frame rate something or another.
And then they're going to put in a computer, one fast computer.
And we're going to be sending streaming video with this new G2 technology in kind of a three-month experiment.
So go to my website where I embarrassingly speculated I might be wrong.
Indeed, I am wrong.
And you can hit a link and go right over and download G2 so you're ready.
It could happen as early as the end of the week.
We'll see.
Then one other item.
Larry King and I are going to exchange visits.
I'm going to be on Larry King Live on Friday, March 5th.
Which should be quite an experience.
For an hour, I am told.
In return, he has promised to come on my program and talk to all, you know, everybody who used to listen to him here late at night.
We should have a lot to talk about.
Then, of course, there's The Source, and I want to tell you about that.
Brad Steiger, and I have written a book called The Source, which touches every single aspect of the paranormal.
And then in the end, in a way that I refuse to give away, ties it all together.
In other words, so much in the world of the paranormal, whether it's what Al Taylor is going to talk about tonight, or it's UFO sightings, or it's Bigfoot sightings, or it's any one of a gazillion things, our speculation is, with some substance, that there is a single source that will explain all of this, and that's what the book is, the source.
If you would like a dual autograph copy, be aware that my tolerance for autographing is very, very small indeed.
And so I will poop out early, which means that you must order soon if you want the Brad Steiger and Art Bell autograph.
Brad Steiger, I think, has a lot of stamina and will probably keep doing it, but I won't.
So, if you want a copy of the source autographed, it's 1-800-864-7991.
Now, it's hit in the bookstores nationwide.
But, of course, there will not be autographs there.
1-800-864-7991.
One last item.
Something you didn't know, the guy who does the voice.
And some months ago, the group ZZ Top, you know ZZ Top, right?
Everybody knows ZZ Top.
They approached me, and they are going to use the voice of Ross Mitchell in a new ZZ Top song.
I said, okay, you know, about this program.
It's going to be really cool.
I'm really looking forward to it.
Anyway, they apparently are listeners, and they've been listening, and so for some reason they decided to send me a CD, a very special CD player, and I want to thank them, that will phase music.
And that arrived today.
Boy, what a surprise.
They said just a little token, you know.
Cool.
This CD player has something called JET.
Now, in JET mode, it takes a song and digitally delays or does something to it so that you can actually, it's as though you were phasing in the normal way, if you want to call phasing normal at all, which means running two products simultaneously and having them cross zero beat just slightly back and forth so you end up with that wonderful phased sound.
And this CD player will actually do that.
ZZ Top sent me one of them.
Thank you very much.
It's very nice of you.
So, all that said, coming up in just a moment, the author of Soul Traveler and really a wild guy, Albert Taylor.
really yeah it's going to be at the But the first book has been so well received that I'm just going to tell everything as I discovered it, and hope people can relate to it.
No, no, I think I want to put my best foot forward because, like I said, I didn't know that this book was going to be so well received, and I didn't know there were so many people out there beyond the people in my family having these kind of wonderful experiences.
Because I, first of all, well, you've got to remember, here I was training astronauts at Johnson Space Center, and I knew if the book got out, I didn't want it to be too far out there so that maybe I would lose my standing at NASA and all the other programs.
So I was reluctant to really tell everyone exactly what was happening.
Plus, it conflicted with my Catholic upbringing and everything that I've grown up with.
So it was very difficult for me to even accept it myself, let alone try to tell someone else about it.
Oh, well, I didn't talk about reincarnation in detail in the book.
I didn't talk about past or other lives because I don't believe in past lives because through all the travels that I've had, I've discovered that there really isn't any time.
Time is an element of the physical, so I call it other lives.
I didn't talk about that.
And I didn't talk about what I like to call the game.
And the game are rules to actually living life.
There's certain things that are set up that if you can become aware of them, you can live and explore this wonderful thing called life and really be prosperous.
Well, for instance, one of the biggest things, most important things I think is to be available.
And when I say be available, that means no matter what kind of strange turnarounds happen during your plans, meaning if you've planned something to happen and all of a sudden catastrophe hits, instead of saying, oh my God, this is the worst thing that's happened and concentrating on that, what I do now, and it's been very, very, very revealing, is I pause for a minute and think about, well, wait a minute, there must be something going on regarding this.
And what that's done is it's made me available for the miracles that's happened in my life and for the wonderful people that's come into my life.
And especially, like, for instance, I went to Greece last year.
i was there about four or five hours longer than i i should have been and then when i got to new york finally to cut to take my international flight yes the flight uh...
Noel was 30 minutes from leaving, and they only had one seat, and I wasn't traveling alone.
So one of us was going to have to stay stateside while the other went overseas.
Instead of me getting upset about it, you turn around to your traveling companion at a moment like that, and you say, we weren't supposed to be on that flight.
Well, you know, no matter what it is, it's not supposed to be.
Whether it be a catastrophe or putting you in a situation that you can be of service, which I love to do, that's what actually happened.
And I ended up meeting this woman got on the Hilton bus with me.
The first thing I did, I looked at her and I thought, this woman looks like a metaphysician or a Native American.
So I just decided to ask her.
And she was a metaphysician, was on her third journey to India to help them plant rice in the fields and help them build huts and things like that.
And we talked, and to make a long story short, she was very concerned about leaving her husband at home and going on this journey, but she'd planned It so long.
She asked me what did I think was the most important thing that I learned through all of my spiritual journeys.
And I told her it was how to love and care for people.
That to me was the most important thing that I could ever learn.
And the next day, I got up in the morning to take the flight.
She ran up to me in the lobby and she said, Oh, God, thank you for sharing that with me last night.
I decided to cancel my trip.
I'm going to go home and take care of my husband.
And it's all because of what you shared with me last night.
So then I went on to Greece, and I realized to me that the whole reason for me stopping was for that particular season.
I think that we would have so much less trouble in America if the U.S. government, and I know this is going to sound crazy, but would buy a round-trip ticket for every American citizen at some point during their life so they could go far away from America and look at some other country and the way things are done elsewhere.
Oh, there are a lot of things, Albert, that have been found that don't fit.
In other words, archaeologists will suddenly find some artifact that would indicate there was a previous technological civilization that ought not have been here.
And because it doesn't fit into the paradigm, they take whatever this physical object is and they put it up on a shelf where it gathers dust and will never more challenge their protected little paradigm.
And there's a lot of that out there, so much so that it would blow your mind.
You know, I would think from all the things that I've read, including Zacharias Sitchkin's books, I would think that there appears to be some kind of rise of a civilization technologically and then a crash and then a regrouping.
As a matter of fact, if you look at a lot of the ancient wonders, such as Stonehenge and the pyramids and a lot of things like that, and even I believe they found a bead that the hole drilled in the bead was so perfect you'd have to have almost a laser to be able to accomplish it.
So there's a lot of things today we cannot explain.
I saw them trying to build a replica of Stonehenge with all the weight that it had going on, and it was almost a catastrophe.
And we had to use modern equipment to even get close to it.
Well, you've got to think about, first of all, the Bible wasn't really put together until, I think, about 400 AD.
And in Constantinople, I think what happened is, as I've read up on this a lot, and they didn't want to empower the people so that they thought for themselves.
So there were some things that they held back regarding spiritual awareness and reincarnation and all that.
And a lot of this information was kept to a very small group like the religious leaders or the church leaders or things like that, so that the people would follow them rather than become self-aware or independent.
And maybe, you know, it's hard to hold a congregation together if the people realize they don't need you and all they need is what's inside of themselves.
So a lot of things happen to try to keep the masses kind of like in a herd mentality, so that they were followers and not leaders.
And I don't know if there was a lot of other reasons why they took reincarnation out.
When you limit the amount of information passed to a certain group, of course, they're not going to be able to go out, especially if you introduce some fear with it, like a lot of things have had, like that's the work of the devil, and the Bible says don't do that, or don't you're not supposed to communicate with spirits and that type of thing.
When you do that, people are afraid, and they never go beyond that, and they never find out.
Yeah, in other words, you know, bear with me here.
If Art Bell can't remember a previous life experience, if Art Bell doesn't remember another consciousness, if Art Bell doesn't remember anything at all about any former life, then what does it mean?
Okay, in the context that you put it in, I would say that it would mean very little, but this is how I see reincarnation.
I see it, and let me simplify it like this.
You were raised with your parents or whatever, and they raised you certain ways, and there's probably a lot of things that they did to you or taught you during that period of time that influences your behavior today.
Well, I would mean, like, today you may respond or behave according to certain things that you were taught back when, and you may not think about those things as, oh, I'm doing this because my mother said.
It may be just an inherent reaction for you now.
So reincarnation is not always something that, oh, I remember exactly who said this, but you still may act on how it's molded you as an individual spirit or a being, let's say, or soul.
So it still has an impact on you, especially as, you know, like some people are just inherently open and loving to others and kind, like Sister Teresa.
You know, that may be something that has taken her lifetime after lifetime to achieve.
Well, the thing is, I'm still saying is there's even with you not having conscious recall of the experience, the actual, whatever happened in one or more lives in the past still influence your behavior today, whether you can remember it or not.
Now, there's also, without you doing anything that you may not recall, but there are also some things that you can do to sort of stir up these memories.
And there's been wonderful books written on the subject where people have done past life regression work, hypnosis, and things like that, and brought up all kinds of data that they didn't know about.
I know, but there are also a lot of psychiatrists out there who say, look, what we've got here with the regression is nothing more than suggestive fantasy.
You know, I think, and I understand, and I think that type of skepticism is very healthy, but then there's some things that happen that really we can't explain.
Like, for instance, I remember the story of a Romanian girl, about eight years old, who kept talking about, she had a little doll, and she kept referring to this doll as her daughter, and she gave a specific name for it.
And then as she grew older, she started talking about more detail about her children and things like that.
Her mother really didn't pay too much attention to it.
She talked about the town in which she lived in, and then she began to talk about it as if it really happened.
And she said, mother, I've done this.
I was this woman.
They eventually went to this town, which was about 300 to 400 miles away from where she was born.
She had never been to this town.
They found, and she identified a location where she lived, which is the house that had been destroyed.
But then they searched and found that the daughter that lived in the house was actually the same name that this woman was talking about.
And so were the sons or the brothers of the woman.
And I've heard the evidence, but still in all, wouldn't you think that almost everybody who would be regressed, for example, would speak another language?
In other words, Arn Bell in Another Life must have been French, or he could have been Icelandic, or I mean, who knows?
But to say that, we really don't understand what we're really talking about.
And it takes these experiences, these life experiences, to learn lessons, especially if you make mistakes, to come back to the lesson over and over again to finally grasp What's going on here?
So I think that a lot of people probably are with, you know, they say what, old souls.
And they're not talking about a person who was created before another person.
What they're talking about, an old soul, is an experienced soul.
So it's very, very important for us to be alert and aware right now because things are happening to us to help us to evolve every minute of the day.
I never thought I'd even get into this.
I was talking, you know, I started off having out-of-body experiences, and now it's opened the door so wide that I'm covering reincarnation and past lives and no evolution.
That's a book I just wrote with Brad called The Source.
I think that out-of-body experiences, the realm that you travel in, near-death experiences, ghosts, goblins, polgregeists, all these different, even Bigfoot and all the rest of these things that seem to be visible and invisible and here and gone and barely at the edge of sight, things we can see, you know, like I say, in Dreamland out of the corner of our eyes.
And even scientists are coming to the point now, NASA scientists are coming to the point now where they're admitting that 90% of the matter in the universe is dark matter and you can't perceive it.
So if we're only seeing 10%, then my God, what is out there?
And what is all around us even?
And people say, well, if I can't see it or touch it, then how do I know it exists?
Or you can't see or touch radio waves either.
And they exist.
So our five senses are very limited on what we can perceive, and there is a whole spectrum of things out there that we can't readily discern.
Well, seven years ago, I would have never thought I'd be explaining it.
But I can tell you this.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that, and it really goes back to all kinds of religious and spiritual beliefs that people have, where they talk about us having an eternal soul.
If we have an eternal soul, and in the Bible it says, before I placed thee in the womb, I knew thee.
So if we're talking about this soul that existed prior to being human or prior to being born, then it makes sense to me that that soul is not permanently connected to the physical body.
Through the near-death experience, people find that soul dislodged.
But you don't have to have a near-death experience to find out that the soul and the body are two different things.
And that's where the out-of-body or spontaneous out-of-body kicks in.
And that's where you find out that truly, you really are this intelligent life form of some sort that is eternal.
I think that explains the out-of-body experience because the soul is something that definitely exists beyond the physical.
It's just right now, it's just occupying the physical body.
Well, you know, what's amazing, Art, is speaking of real death and near death, I'm going to be in Seattle on the 6th speaking to the Seattle International Association of Near Death Studies.
Now, I've been a member of IANS for a number of years now, I think about seven years.
And what's amazing to me, I've had a chance to talk to people from all over the U.S. and in different countries, and it doesn't matter what they believe.
Some of them are atheists, some of them are Christians, some of them are Muslims, it doesn't matter.
They all talk about some kind of spiritual experience after they've had this near death or after there's been a trauma.
And 90% of them talk about the same thing, but don't know each other and have various beliefs, and some of them are atheists.
So it's a puzzle to me why all of these people are having these isolated experiences and are talking about the same thing.
Well, most of the time, the atheist talks about, instead of saying, I saw Christ or I saw Muhammad or Buddha or whatever, they generally talk about, I saw a light.
Well, after a near-death experience, I don't know any people who've had near-death experiences and been an atheist prior to and still remain that.
Almost everyone I've known or talked to who had either little or zero beliefs had some kind of very solid understanding of who they were and what was going on after the experience.
Wonder if they'd let me wear my skull and crossbones on Larry King.
I bet they wouldn't.
I'll be on Larry King Live March 5th, Friday.
Albert Taylor is here.
And we're going to do something a little different this morning, just for fun.
My kind of fun, I guess.
I would like, I'm going to open an atheist line.
You know, I've had clergymen on before, people of the cloth, men of the cloth, and I've had atheists on with them, but Albert Taylor is a spiritualist.
I don't think you'd call him a person of the cloth.
He's a spiritualist.
He wrote Soul Traveler.
And he thinks we have a soul.
And moreover, he knows that we can travel with that soul.
And that we have an eternal soul and that near death is but a taste of after death, meaning there is eternal life.
And so it struck me, it's kind of interesting as I sat here and thought about it, to get some atheists on the line.
Therefore, a call now goes out to atheists only.
Everybody else, in fact, on all lines, just hang up.
Hang your phone up.
Stop calling.
Stop trying to get through.
Stop.
And I'm going to open all my lines for atheists.
And I'm going to talk to them and let Al Taylor talk to them.
Just sort of curious what would come out of a couple of conversations like that.
So all lines are hereby closed for anything and everything except atheists.
Atheists only for the next little while.
I don't know why I think this will be intriguing, but I think it'll be intriguing.
So whatever line you're able to get through on, if you are a true atheist, pick up the phone and call me.
If you were to have some illness or an accident, somebody threw you 60 feet in the air, hit you with a car or something, and you had your breathing stopped, your heart stopped, your brainwaves stopped,
blah, blah, everything stopped, and you had an experience and you saw a light and a being and another place, and you saw your own body being worked on by paramedics, would that change your mind?
unidentified
I would really begin to question my own mental state then.
Okay, I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody.
I've had some weird things happen to me that I put down in diary form that I never planned on showing to anyone, and I was shocked that so many people all over the world are having these same experiences.
It's only because other people started coming forth, because I decided to do the same, that it started slowly changing my understanding of what's going on.
But I never, ever, and I still don't, try to prove it to anybody.
unidentified
Okay, but so in other words, you're willing to make a statement, but you're not going to back it up?
The best thing that I can offer to people who are looking for proof is what I did is I put down in my book, in the last chapter, all the different things that I've tried that worked for me for a certain percentage of the time.
I welcome anybody to just try them and see what happens because I get so much positive feedback from people who are thinking, oh my God, this is real.
It never happened to me.
So I suggest, you know, try it.
If it doesn't work, fine.
But if it does work, then to me, the experience is going to be the proof.
Well, I make a separation that you don't make, Al.
What's that?
In other words, with regard to soul travel or what we call travel outside the body, I don't even know if I want to use the word soul, but our consciousness going elsewhere, I have absolutely no question about that.
We can do that.
But to me, that does not automatically transfer to immortal life, soul living on, all the rest of that.
In other words, I don't think that, and I think you make your case exquisitely well for soul travel, but I can't make the leap that says that means we have immortal souls.
And out of those 100 experiences that you had, you maybe 10 times or even 15 times, you ran into a deceased relative that you know and you know is dead.
And after 15 encounters with this deceased relative, you've accept, well, if you did have an encounter with them, you would begin to accept that this person is still existing in some kind of shape or form.
So if you have an encounter, and I'm talking about more than once, with something and eventually you become very familiar with that something, and that's what I'm saying has happened to me, is eventually you would have to either go into total denial or you would have to think, start exploring possibly that there's some other explanations to life and death that you hadn't really thought about.
And without it, I totally would not even begin to even look in that direction.
And not just one experience.
It has taken me many, many, many times before I would even begin to look at this because I thought there was, I looked for every explanation because I didn't believe in this stuff at all.
I thought we were some type of genetic accident on this dirt ball in space.
I haven't done it yet, but I'll tell you, I had a real interesting conversation one morning with a couple of Jehovah Witnesses that came to my door, and I was amazed because by the time they left, they really were thinking very differently than they were when they knocked on my door.
You know, the proverbial, the classic vision of God with the, you know, the reaching out to Adam with the curly hair and the beard.
I don't believe in that.
I believe that we, as humans, and especially those who believe in God, have created God in a human form because that's as close to understanding that kind of energy or intelligence as they can get.
But I think it's far beyond anything that they could comprehend.
He's the author of a book called Soul Traveler, and the implications of that are many.
I mean, the soul, the substance within you...
By the way, over the weekend, we...
We put the soul substance article back up on the webpage.
It was a medical study done a long time ago.
A very tightly controlled medical study.
Now, there could have been more.
Even the author of the study said that.
He was a doctor.
But he found that the human body lost about three-quarters of an ounce at the instant of death.
The bodies of cats and dogs didn't.
That still puzzles me, that aspect of it, by the way.
But I finally found that article, and Keith has held it, and every time I bring it up, he puts it back up there.
It may or may not be there now, I don't know.
But it might be appropriate, too, if you wanted to read it.
So, Keith, if you get a chance, you might put it up there near Albert Taylor's name.
He'll be right back with a few more atheists.
Well, since we're talking about reincarnation, I have a question for Al about reincarnation Al.
Sure.
Let me tell you a nasty little habit that I have that I've wondered about.
I am one of those people who, if anything is not symmetrical, I can't stand it.
In other words, if I look over at one of my diplomas or one of my certificates or licenses or whatever, and, you know, frame, and the frame is tilted just a little bit out of square, I will move mountains to correct that immediately.
Or if I put up an antenna and one little element is out of alignment, it will bother me so much that I will climb a hundred-foot tower to make it right, you know, risking my life.
In other words, I just can't stand things being not symmetrical.
And is this something that would follow a person from one life to the next?
Well, in that case, in a lot of ways, maybe not the specifics of straightening up pictures and things like that, but maybe that kind of compulsive behavior might be something that may follow you.
But the real thing that will follow you is all the summation of the experience that you've had previous that brings you to an understanding, meaning that you can go from probably a person who may be very angry, very violent, to slowly changing to a person who's very compassionate and loving.
I don't think, you know, I think when you have your past life review, like so many near-death experiences talk about, I don't think whether you straighten up a picture or not is going to be one of the things that you experience.
I have heard of there's a machine that a guy developed.
It has to do with magnetic waves that bombard the brain, where he's been able to have people talk about sensing non-physical beings around them, feeling of floating, that type of thing.
If they can reproduce it, I'd like to see a lot more data on it, but what really intrigues me is that when you don't use any of those things, then it happens to people.
If they could lay you down and put a few little clamps around your head and reproduce for you what you have already experienced, wouldn't that force you to question the validity of what you've experienced?
If they could reproduce exactly what I've experienced, I would, yes, yes, I'd say I'd be very interested in it.
But from the different testing and things like that that I have had the pleasure of reading about and witnessing, they've only gone to the surface of feeling the floating.
They haven't described journeying to traveling to another location.
Like in one of my experiences, I didn't know a woman and her husband slept in two different beds.
That type of thing.
If I had only been having just the floating feeling or the sense of someone being around, to me that's inconclusive.
It's more what happens way beyond that that tends to be a little bit more.
Hey, listen, being an atheist, no heaven, no hell, and possibly a Jody Foster parallel universe, I'm having a little trouble swallowing what this man says, and I'd love to spend almost an hour debating him.
But rather than debate him, I certainly wouldn't mind having him ask me some questions.
You know, because you have out-of-by experiences doesn't mean you become super knowledgeable about every kind of thing that there's going on as non-physical.
To me, this is just a little window that I'm getting some understanding about.
It doesn't mean that now I have all the answers.
I wouldn't even pretend to say that.
I'm just trying to share some things that have happened to me that I found out that are happening to other people.
There's still a lot of things that I don't know about it that I'm definitely willing to explore and find out.
Right, but that doesn't necessarily tell you who the creator or who created the creator.
If there was a creator of the creator, it will tell you that I have a consciousness that seems to go out and retrieve information from another source other than physically and bring it back and actually retain it.
And then later on, I've gone out and verified it.
That's something that opens the door to questions beyond just being animal man.
Caller, if you were able to experience something like that, you were able to leave your body, go somewhere else or into another time, see something, and then later verify that what you saw was accurate, how would that affect you?
unidentified
I'd welcome the opportunity with great skepticism and scientific intrepidness.
I personally would probably give it the old, well, it must be something in my conscience, it must be something in my dopamine levels, it must be something that's just that I can't attribute scientifically or otherwise, and I just would not be able to put any teeth into that.
And I can totally relate to what he's saying because when I had been having night paralysis all my life since I was five, I didn't know anybody else outside of the few members of my family were having night paralysis.
It shocked me that when I actually wrote it down and actually got brave enough to tell people about it, that they were coming out of the woodwork all over the globe telling me about it.
Robert Monroe did some excellent work on laboratory work that's documented in his first book, I believe, where he was able to affect some needles in another room, an isolated room, in an adjacent, adjacent to where he was lying down.
There's tons of other information on the subject where people have been able to recall information.
In my book, I didn't know the woman slept separately than her husband.
I didn't know she slept with a heating pad on her leg until I saw that and then I verified it later.
So I was amazed.
And the thing about this is it's not a contemporary thing.
It's not something that just popped up with new age in the 90s or 80s.
It's older than the hills.
And people have been talking about this for a very, very long time.
And they're talking about the same things today as they were talking about thousands of years ago.
So it's a phenomenon that has been shrouded in categories like occult.
It's been labeled with fear-based condemnations like it's the work of the devil.
Well, because a lot has to do with my experiences.
Oh, I'll tell you, the biggest thing that convinces me is my aunt, God rest her soul, died in 1982 of cancer in Cedar Sidenite Hospital.
I've had, and I wrote it in my book, and I didn't believe in ghosts and spirits and all that, but I had two encounters with what I believed to be the soul or spirit of my aunt.
And I had to ask myself, because my aunt, I wouldn't say, was the most wonderful individual when she was living.
And I'd say to myself, if there was a hell, she definitely would have been locked up there.
And the fact that she was, I saw her more than one occasion, and I don't know if they have parole in hell or whatever, but I started questioning that based on, that was one of the reasons I started questioning it.
And, you know, the thing is, when people have past life reviews, there's been like maybe a small percentage who've talked about hell, but the people who aren't Christians, because heaven and hell is kind of a Christian belief, but the people who aren't and aren't believers at all talk about this particular thing.
And they haven't talked about having an encounter with Satan or being locked away or that type of thing.
She described the most detailed, compelling, real NDE to me that I have ever heard short of Daniel Brinkley's.
Now, Daniel was a miserable little bastard who got struck by lightning.
He went up to the Crystal Palaces.
This young lady, Sarah, oh, she was, I think she was 18 years old, if I recall correctly.
She was on the way home from a voluntary church activity riding her bicycle.
She got hit from the rear, thrown 60 feet into the air, broke just about, destroyed every internal organ, spent a long time in a coma, was as dead as dead can be, and she went straight to hell.
In the beginning, when I first started going into the astral plane or projecting my consciousness out of my body, regardless of trying to or not, because a lot of times it just happened, what I found out is in that state, any kind of thing that you imagine, you can experience.
It doesn't mean that it's necessarily real.
So I can say this, if I were to describe my experiences based on just one visit, one projection out of body, it would be totally inaccurate because I didn't know that I was causing a lot of the things that I was experiencing.
And I call those contaminated experiences.
And once I was able to suppress a lot of the condemnations and fearful things that I had been taught through this particular life and suppress those or suspend those, I started having what I call contamination-free experiences where I wasn't creating these things based on my earthly life.
You know, Keith has changed the way the website looks.
And people really hate change.
I mean, they really, really hate change.
Listen to the variety of comments.
Just let me read a few.
Nice new look.
Easier to navigate.
Keep up the great work.
Your new web design sucks.
From Yvonne.
Keith, I want to congratulate you on the current RPL web pages.
They're so much easier to figure out where to find what I'm looking for.
From Ann, change is good and the work you do on RPL site is beyond great, but I liked it when I could scroll down and find things like the earthquake links easily.
This is one of the first times, and I think it's going to be one of the biggest out-of-body exploration weekends that people could possibly want to attend.
It's going to be in Colorado from the 12th to the 14th.
It's going to be three of the top authors, including myself, William Bullman, Patricia Leva, and myself, are going to be conducting a three-day workshop and lecture and seminar and questions and answers on Auduba Experiences.
So if anybody would love to go, I mean, it's filling up real fast.
I suggest you call right away.
They can call 1-888-416-4312, and I would love to see you there.
And it's going to be an experience that I believe personally will change your life.
matter of fact, I think you will have one of the best foundations for practicing and possibly achieving out-of-body experience than you could ever get from any one book.
Because you have three people there giving you all kinds of information.
You can ask questions real time and get answers real time.
Because a lot of people are having these experiences or close to having them and can't get quite past the fear and other limitations.
You know, I've tried identifying numbers on the back of doors or moving things physically or those type of things.
And generally, when I've tried to do it or planned to do it, it didn't turn out that way.
The things that happened were kind of when I wasn't thinking about it.
Like the visit to a friend's house when I described to her what the view was out the window.
It wasn't like I planned to do that prior to it happening.
It kind of happened and I went with it.
One of the things that recently I got approached by NBC, they're doing a new show.
And they wanted me to, they put a box here in my house and they wanted to, one of my out-of-body experiences, to reach inside the box astrally and find out what was inside the box.
And the thing that with me, and I would hope someone else who maybe who doesn't have this particular problem, is when it comes down to having to prove and test, I get real nervous.
And one of the things that helps me to get out of body is relaxation.
So it's kind of in a test environment for me, it's been very, very difficult.
But I would imagine, and I have heard of a lot of people who haven't had that problem.
So I think no matter what, there should be ongoing research for this particular thing over and over and over again because I am an engineer scientist and I'm definitely into repeatability and I would love to gain as much control over this as we possibly could and understand it.
unidentified
Your experience though, and I think you'll admit that it feeds skepticism.
Matter of fact, when someone suggested that I was having autobiography experiences, I told them they were nuts.
I said I don't believe in that stuff.
And the only thing that I had was I knew I was having this night paralysis often.
And I thought, okay, well, if I'm having these so-called autobiography experiences, as you say, then it'll be easy for me to go back and find out what it is, or if that's really it.
I was shocked that the first time that I knew I actually tried and was thinking about this in that paralysis state, that the experience that followed after the night paralysis permanently changed my life.
I never in a million years would have ever believed in any of this.
So I totally understand anyone, even after you hear me, even after you read my book, who's skeptical, because I think I would still be skeptical if I hadn't had the experience myself.
unidentified
By the way, I've written a book.
500 pages.
No one's ever read it, but I've written one.
I have a couple other questions.
Is my soul, and I know you're not an expert, but to the best of your knowledge, is my soul the same thing as my spirit?
What is the difference between my soul and my spirit?
Well, some people think, I mean, I've heard various things.
I don't know.
You know, when I think of the, if I think of the spirit, I think of the spirit and the soul kind of the same thing.
I think we have a mind, body, and spirit.
Our mind is one thing.
Our body is the physical, of course.
And our spirit is the soul.
That's how I look at it.
Because, I mean, when you're talking about we have the soul and the spirit are both things that are non-physical, and we have one of each, it gets really confusing.
So I like to simplify it and just say the soul.
And if somebody wants to call it the spirit, that's fine.
You can do that too.
Because what we're talking about is your true essence, what you really are beyond any physical limitations.
And whatever that is, that's what we're talking about.
unidentified
That brings up another thing that I wrote about in my book there.
What is the essence of spirit and soul?
Because this was created.
Whatever it is, it was created.
Because before God created, there were no spirits, there were no angels, there were no souls.
Well, I don't look at it as having a soul when you're born.
I think a soul is something that you are, period.
So before you're born, you're soul.
After you're dead, you're soul.
And you will always be soul.
And I don't look at it as like having it in the pocket.
The soul is not affected by physical.
The soul is conscious on a state that a lot of us aren't aware of.
Some of us accidentally tap into it through meditation and through what some people may call channeling or something like that because sometimes people contact a higher self.
But the soul is, first of all, not governed by physical limitations.
It is a multi-dimensional entity, conscious entity, and it may be acting independent of your material human self.
So it may have, it may, as a matter of fact, it probably is, it's acting in ways that are far beyond what your material self is capable of contemplating or understanding.
unidentified
Can your soul or your spirit manipulate physical matter in any way, shape, or form?
I didn't know very much about psychokinetic energy and what he was doing.
I just thought it was a scam.
Not too long ago, about maybe four or five years ago, I went with a friend of mine to what's called a PK party.
And you may have heard of them.
I didn't believe in that stuff at all.
Now, it was about 30, maybe 35 people in the room.
And I'm always a researcher, so instead of concentrating on bending my spoon, I'm looking at everybody else's spoon.
And after the actual demonstration was over, I was one of the few people who didn't bend the spoon.
But what shocked me was that my friend that I've known for a very, very long time bent their spoon.
It wouldn't have mattered if everybody else did, but my friend, I know them.
And I said, wait a minute, I know you.
How did you do that?
And my friend said, I just believe that I could.
So I thought, hmm, that's real interesting because I know my friend.
I went home the next day and I sat there with nobody in the room and I grabbed one of the spoons and I went through the procedure that I learned the night, a couple nights before.
And I have that spoon today.
I was shocked that not only did it bend, but it bent around in a curly cue.
And I keep it to this day.
Because that shows me that I don't know what it is, a part of us, but there's a part of us that can actually project and affect physical matter.
Well, like I said, you know, in a lot of ways, we kind of look at ourselves and think that we are the summation of this particular life experience.
But regarding reincarnation, there's things that, there's experiences that you've had prior to this one, according to the theory of reincarnation, that affect you to this date.
So you may be acting upon certain things that you may not have conscious recall of readily.
But if you really wanted to explore this and find out, there's things that you probably haven't done as of yet, like hypnotism and things like hypnosis and past life regression and that type of thing.
Most of the, I mean, and it doesn't, not everybody who goes to try these past life regressions and things are kind of come out of there saying, ah, now I remember.
But I was shocked that I have attended a few, and I was shocked that a few people could retain information.
But the one thing that really surprised me was that when I went, and I mentioned it in my book, because I didn't believe in any of this stuff, I mentioned in my book, I went with a friend of mine, and during the hypnosis or during the session, I thought I was doing some really good visualization, because I do that.
I'm an artist, again, that kind of thing.
So I visualized this particular scenario of a past life, let's say.
The thing that shocked me was that my friend had the same perception of a past life, but just from a slightly different perspective.
And I say most people would take a no-it-doesn't exist attitude or approach because a lot of people don't want to be fooled or disappointed or that kind of thing or misled.
First of all, I'd like to say real quick that I've always thought that the life that we're living now is the death that we were afraid of in our past life.
You kind of get what I'm saying?
In our past life, we were afraid to die.
It turned out it was this life that we're living now.
I think, yeah, well, you know, in a way, you can look at it like, if you want to be afraid, be afraid in the life that now because you're creating you're setting up the possible learning experiences for the next life.
Yeah, but you know, that's unverifiable because now we're really talking about a belief of mine because I haven't had any conversations with astral animals.
But, you know, but I don't think we are as separate as we think we are from things that aren't human.
unidentified
Right.
They've got to be there, though, I'm sure, because they have a personality.
They might not be able to reason or talk, but you can tell that there's something in there, you know, especially when they give you those certain kinds of looks like my cat does.
I'm really in a skeptical mood tonight for some reason.
Now, here's somebody who writes, hey, Art, I thought I was stubborn.
For 28 years, the question, do we survive death in some form really bothered me more than most people, I think.
I finally found my answer after reading a dozen or so books on NDEs.
It was clear to me after reading Melvin Morse's book, Closer to the Light, that we do indeed survive physical death and that it was not oxygen deprivation, made-up stories, or just a creative imagination.
But boy, you take the cake, man.
I haven't even had an OBE.
Just attended a William Buehlman OBE workshop, though.
And so obviously he's disgusted with me because I've had an OBE.
And here I sit, still skeptical, saying, well, it could be something that our human mind can do.
I can understand his skepticism because the experience is the, to me, that's all that's going to do it for me.
It doesn't matter what you say, Art, how many books I read, or any of that.
I would always have that doubt in the back of my mind if I hadn't had the experiences.
The thing about it is that I get a lot of letters where people are saying, I haven't had the experience.
I'm trying this.
I'm trying to get the evaporation going, and it drops off.
Well, the big thing that I'm telling all these, that I'd like to tell all these people is release that wanting to control and just try to let it happen naturally and let it go.
For this individual that's talking, I'm sure Bill gave him a wonderful foundation to work on.
The key here now is relaxation and clearing the mind.
I've been listening to the show, and I've been listening to a couple of other shows.
I've always been a believer in God.
I grew up Catholic and everything.
And I became a Christian two years ago, a little over two years ago.
And I became even more of a believer in God because I don't know how your feelings are when you hear the term getting saved or born again.
But the reality of when I came to know God in a more closer way than I did before, it was actually so real, it kind of scared me away because of the way that I was living my life or doing what I was doing.
And when I came to know God, my life totally changed.
Totally.
As far as reincarnation, I don't know if I believe in that or not.
What I believe is I believe that we were put here on this earth by God.
And I was like you, Al.
I'd never believed in hell.
Until I became a Christian, I always thought that God was the loving God.
The problem that I have, Caller, with what I think you believe is that you believe in a fearful, vengeful God.
In other words, that if you do something wrong, I don't know, break one of the commandments, whatever, you're going down to the fiery pit, and God is going to cast you out.
unidentified
Well, no, it's not.
Well, that's what getting saved or born again means.
You accept, you know, a lot of people don't believe Jesus walked the earth or, you know, stuff like that.
You know, what I would say to somebody is, I wasn't here when the dinosaurs walked the earth.
You know what I mean?
It's kind of like that.
I believe that one must be born to get saved.
God is a forgiving God, and when you turn your life over to him, I mean, it's been so.
That's kind of like, you know, what I was talking about, or you mentioned, is that I think people humanize God and they give him all these traits, these negative traits that we have, like vengeful and jealous.
Can you imagine the supreme being with no competition being jealous?
That doesn't really make sense on a human level to me.
God is beyond the things that we attach.
I have trouble accepting a jealous, vengeful, angry God that has all the bad things that we have.
And to think about it, without any competition and knowing future, past, and everything he could possibly want to know about everything, God knows that things are going to work out exactly as he planned.
So what's the point in him spinning his wheels like we do on the little minute things?
Well, the Native American point of view, the way I was raised, is what we have is we have a physical body, then we have a spirit, then we have a soul that encases that's inside the spirit.
And what happens is when we leave the physical plane, our spirit goes to a spiritual plane, and then our soul goes to a soul plane.
And then what happens is the soul is actually layers like a tree.
And what happens is when we come back in reincarnation to another level of existence, then what we do is we pick up our spirit, and it has many, many layers to it, and then we come into our physical body, and that's why we have a lot of remembrances of past lives.
But my complaint, my complaint, caller, Anal, is that if it's a big school and there's no consciousness, a continuation of consciousness from one life to the next, then how are we to apply lessons learned?
You probably heard this story about the little girl who was watching her mother prepare a ham for cooking, and her mother lopped off all four corners of the ham before she put it in the pan.
And the little girl said, Mom, why do you do that?
She says, I don't know.
That's the way my mother taught me.
So she went to her grandmother and she asked her grandmother, Grandma, why do you lop off the corners of the ham before you cook it?
And she says, I don't know.
That's the way my mother taught me.
So she goes to her great-grandmother and she asked, she says, why do you cut off the edges of the ham before you cook it?
And the great-grandmother said, oh, you don't have to do that anymore.
That's because the plans, the pots used to be too small, but now they have bigger pots.
So we do a lot of things that maybe we don't necessarily Know why.
And we can't say, Well, I don't know why I'm doing this, or is this because of a past life?
There may be subtle things working under the conscious layer, so to speak, or conscious awareness that motivates us to react or to take action in certain things that we may not be consciously aware of.
That's how I believe reincarnation is.
It works in the background.
It's kind of like a conditioning, like Pavlov's dog.
The dog doesn't know why it's drooling because the bell's going off.
I just wanted to make a comment about the soul, like a Christian perspective on it.
We're built like maybe if you take a soccer ball and the outside of the soccer ball ball is like your body and the inside, the part that blows up, the rubber part, is like your soul.
That's like your body.
So your body and your soul are kind of the same.
And then the inside part, which would be the air, would be your spirit.
And that was my way of always thinking of it.
And Art, I just wanted to say I love your program and all the guests you have on.
But I kind of like, you know, when I was a kid, I used to go to work with my mother, and she worked at the Griffith Park Golf Course here in Los Angeles.
And I would walk around and look through the little lakes and grass, shrubbery, and find golf balls.
And then what I would do is take them home and get a hacksaw, and I would cut the golf balls open.
And the first thing I find is it's wrapped in a lot of rubber bands underneath.
And then if you undo all the rubber bands, then you find this little hard ball under at the core of things.
And that's kind of how I look at it.
The outer, the white casing is like the physical form.
The rubber bands, strands that are wrapped around the ball inside are like the astral or subtle bodies that we have.
When I did the first hour of the show tonight, I read you this in part.
Art, you need to know about the black helicopters and the no insignia Delta Force troops terrorizing citizens here in Texas.
That'll get your attention.
There is a nationwide news blackout of the real facts.
The black helicopters with no insignia swoop into Texas towns and cities, disgorging shock troops wearing black uniforms with no markings and black ski masks.
Well, I'll tell you, if I woke up in the middle of the night and there were a bunch of black-socked, helmeted, thug-booted guys shooting rifles and throwing grenades and stuff, I don't know what the hell I'd think.
unidentified
Well, they were rappelling out of the helicopters right in front of their house there.
Where she lived was right across the street from the area that they were doing this at.
And this was not a small area.
This is about, I'd say, 300 yards by about a full city block in width.
We're talking a pretty good-sized area.
And then they say it was near a nursing home.
Yeah, it was kind of near a nursing home, but it's not a nursing home.
It's more of a retirement community for, you might say, underprivileged elderly people.
And like these folks, you know, it was scaring these poor old folks to death.
I can just imagine, you know, what they were thinking.
They just said that they believe most of the troops were staying over in Corpus Christi over the Naval Air Station there, and they could tell that they were hanging out because they could see some of the troops eating at some of the local restaurants.
They just really didn't fit in well with the rest of the people around.
Their hair was real short, and they would call them kind of like white sidewalls running around everywhere from what I had read.
You know, I've been watching, I was in the Air Force for a while, and I believe you were too.
And I watched the Air Force's explanation of the Roswell incident, the last one.
And I think they've gotten, this is my opinion now.
I'll probably have black helicopters knocking on my door here shortly.
But I think they've gotten to the point where they're looking at the American public like, you can't do anything about it, so we're not going to even try to hide what we're doing.
You can't do anything about it.
Because, I mean, telling us that the Roswell crash was just a weather balloon when the Army Air Corps is the one who initiated the whole media coverage of the thing.
They're the ones who called the local newspaper.
The local newspaper didn't call them.
And they'll turn around a couple days later and say that it didn't happen that way.
Oh, you know, there are drugs that will initiate or assist in having an altered state of consciousness experience, or it could be an out-of-body.
There are some that will inhibit.
So yes, it is very possible to do that.
I don't recommend it at all, but yes, it probably is valid.
But I would say that if you go into the state with any kind of drug that's going to alter your perception other than being naturally in the experience, then you may not have a true uncontaminated experience and you may not be able to filter out all the stuff that I talked about earlier that you create yourself.
And I'd like to think that when I pass on, there's a chance, like we say, we see our relatives beckoning or we see friends, which I certainly hope so, and I do believe.
But I'd also like to believe that I'm going to see this animal again.
You know, I think all living things have an eternal element to them.
If you believe in Zen Buddhism, they believe even far more than that, that every life form is evolving to eventually attain a human life form.
And they believe, well, and I don't necessarily buy into this, that it's possible to actually go in reverse depending on your karma.
So I do believe, you know, I haven't mentioned it to anybody, and I've been very reluctant, and I'm writing about it in my book because I'm still trying to understand it myself.
But I can say this.
I have had an astral experience with what I do believe to be an animal spirit.
I don't quite understand it because it kind of shocked me, and it was the first time.
But it definitely was not human.
And it was not something that was unfamiliar to me, meaning that I definitely think I know who this animal spirit is.
It's something that I put, a dog that I had in the past.
So I believe that everything has some type of spirit.
Not all spirits are going to be at a higher astral plane.
A lot of these things are going to be at a lower level because they're not as evolved.
So you may have to encounter them when you have an out-of-body experience.
unidentified
Well, I agree with you so much on that.
I believe that there's certain levels that we all attain to try and strive to get, and we're here many times until we succeed on that.
And well, you have answered my question.
But you know, that kind of puts a damper in that, you know, that little theory with the weight thing on the soul, you know, when it doesn't happen in animals, there's a little something about that.
Yeah, I think it's fascinating, and I'm glad you brought that up because that's another element that I hadn't thought about that I really would like to explore.
In other words, if you're saying that this is like a big schoolhouse, then I follow it.
unidentified
Well, yeah, so to speak, I guess.
But I'm just going to, it's not, I guess I'm trying to go a little bit farther than that.
In that, you know, if there was a reincarnation, it seems like you would participate in it.
And, you know, the things that you carry over from your previous lives, you know, like as the baby gets older, you know, you can tell that they have their own personality.
You know, that just comes with them, you know, as they begin to develop it.
It's not purely because they're your child, they're going to be like you.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
And I guess what I'm saying with that is that if you carry these things from your previous lives with you and you also have a selection into where you're going to go, then at that point, you know, that's what it's good for, you know, because you're dealing with somebody, with something that has the ability to know what types of experiences you're going to have in your life.
to the wind blow watch the sun rise To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye, from east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033, 1-800-825-5033, west of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255, 1-800-618-8255.
I can't still hear you saying you were me Never break the chain, never break it.
Two years ago, I had this crazy idea to quit my job at the space station and publish my diary, a book called Soul Traveler.
I borrowed money on everything I had, and I published the book, and sales were doing mediocre, and about six months into it, I got a letter from my distributor who puts me in Barnes and Noble and all that.
And they said, we're sorry to inform you, but we're going bankrupt with all of your money, and we may be able to pay you 10 cents on a dollar.
You know, when spirit is capable of, it's getting all kinds of information other than what the five senses are giving it.
So sometimes, but unfortunately, not everybody can interpret this information.
So sometimes it comes to you in a lot of symbology.
Sometimes it comes to you, but the way it comes to you is in a way that you can understand it.
The more and more awareness and the more and more lucidity you have during these experiences, the less and less symbols and convoluted things, images that you get.
Eventually, you get a clearer and clearer and clearer idea of what's going on beyond the physical.
Eventually, if you get to a heightened sense, you can actually project the consciousness beyond the body and have an out-of-body experience.
I was having An out-of-body experience, and all of a sudden, I felt while I was floating above the bed trying to figure out what I was about to do, all of a sudden, I had this feeling that my consciousness was opened up, and everything you could possibly want to know about anything was poured in briefly.
So, for a short period of time, I had absolutely no questions.
I understood everything.
You didn't have to ask because I understood everything.
And one of the things that I understood primarily was that was my natural state of existence.
I was finally home.
And so I understand exactly what, and that's what it is.
It's going back home and connecting with your true self where you don't have all these fears and worries and things like that.
All you have is an incredible, overwhelming sense of love.
And that's really the most powerful force in that realm.
Well, I think probably it's because there's probably a certain amount of time, one of you go in the state of OBE or near-death experience or whatever, that the umbilical cord is cut.
And kind of like a woman having a baby, once that cord is cut, then that entity is on its own.
But it only reinforces what I'm saying, and that is that an NDE is one thing, but we still don't really know if there is truly an existence after death based on the fact that we have NDEs or based on the fact that we have OBEs.
So the fact that he did not lose consciousness and he recalled a lot of things.
And then if that were in itself the only thing that happened, that's really inconclusive.
But the fact that he was able to predict certain events around the globe that were transpiring and did happen, I think that something very, very monumental happened to him.
Yes, he predicted the Chernobyl, I believe, incident.
But even then, I would say, look, I absolutely believe that our brains are capable of all kinds of things.
That ESP and PSI abilities are real, and that when people get hit by lightning or they have other trauma, areas of their brains begin to operate that otherwise would not.
So I believe all of that is possible, but it's still an artifact of a living brain.
Well, you know, what's amazing, if you look at a lot of things, especially the one thing that I find fascinating is that throughout history, I mean, as long, as far back as we can remember, people have been put in life or death situations with you hear this so many times, my life flashed before me, before my eyes.
Well, it wasn't until in the last maybe two or three decades that people have been coming forward and talking about near-death experiences.
And in the near-death experience, they've been talking about the Panoramic Past Life Review.
So it's just, it's still not 100%, but all of these stories about this type of thing and being able to put together no matter what the people believe tends to point to where there's something going on.
Whether we can define it or identify it, you know, remains to be seen.
Well, you know, what I think is interesting about the devil is especially when I went to Greece and, you know, Greek mythology talks about Hades, Lord of the Underworld.
Well, you know, that was around a lot longer than Christianity.
And I think it's very interesting, the similarities in the devil versus the Lord of the Hades.
I think there's a lot of mythology that has been adopted as maybe fact in a lot of cases that may not be as true as we think it is and may not even be based on our belief today, like Christianity or whatever.
So a lot of those stories tend to make me think that maybe there's the, you know, maybe we've put this kind of fearful dogma on this kind of thing.
Like, for instance, I don't know why we are, but it's the nature of the beast.
We jump to the negative rather than the positive in a lot of experiences.
I get countless letters from people saying, I saw a demon at the end of my bed.
But they don't say anything beyond that.
So to me, it could be a demon, could be an angel.
But they chose to jump to the negative.
So regarding the devil, I mean, I can't say it does or does not exist.
I just know that from all of the experiences that I've had and all of the experiences that people write me about and I talk to them about, I mean, almost, I'd say less than 1%.
Angie Fenimore is one who wrote a near-death experience book about hell, but there's less than 1% of the people who actually talk about eternal damnation and fire and brimstone.
So I would think it would be kind of more of a prevalent thing, and a lot more people would be talking about it if it really exists.
But a lot of those people, almost 99% of them, talk about a higher self, a light, or God.
William Bullman, Patricia Leva, myself, and I believe even Robert Bob Peterson has signed on, who's written another book, a book on Auduba Experiences.
So there'll be four of us there, and that's a ton of information.