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May 20, 1998 - Art Bell

02:42:39

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Super Collider Project - Prof. Paul Dixon

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01:16:29

prof paul dixon

39:53

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Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time, tonight featuring Coast to Coast Day N from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening or good morning wherever you may be across this great land, from the Cadetian Islands, Hawaiian Islands, in the west, eastward to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north all the way to the Pole and worldwide on the internet.
unidentified		This is Postgoast AM.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Actually, throughout the galaxy as well.
		And we are going to do a grand experiment this night.
		And we'll have a guest next hour, a very fascinating guest, but interwoven with tonight and tomorrow night, over the next 48 hours, we are going to do a grand experiment.
		As you know, we have, with great success, previously attempted to communicate with them by mental means, telepathy.
		Well, if there's somebody reasonably close by, and I say reasonably close by, the speed of light, over the next 48 hours, we are going to listen on a specific HF frequency, shortwave frequency.
		Now, I obviously don't want anybody to transmit.
		This is an otherwise quiet frequency.
		And so we are going to listen.
		Many, many, many people all over the world listen to my program.
		And they have many, many shortwave receivers.
		So it made sense to me, makes sense to me to give it a try.
		What we are going to do is to listen to 6890.
		That's 6.890.
		Now I'm not specifying any mode of operation.
		Who knows what might be a pulse.
		It might be some sort of weird sound that we would have to decipher.
		It might be inside band or FM or, you know, who knows what it would be.
		But I want all ears out there listening for communication by radio on 6.890 megahertz.
		Beginning now and going on for the next 48 hours.
		And I would certainly hope that many of you out there would be taping on this frequency as well.
		So if you're out there and if you would like to make yourself known, if you really are out there, and I mean extraterrestrial out there, then transmit to us on 6890.
		Now, as far as I know, nobody has ever done this before.
		Nobody has ever specified a certain frequency and said, let's all listen here.
		Now, what might be heard, for example, in the Caribbean might not be heard in Hawaii or the other way around or South America or way up north.
		Who knows?
		But this is a frequency that should do the trick.
		It is one that I picked at random.
		It appears to be a quiet frequency, and that is the, of course, the primary qualification for it.
		It's got to be a good, quiet frequency, and it seems to be that.
		And of course, all we're going to be doing is listening, transmitting, not transmitting.
		I repeat, not transmitting.
		That would be illegal, that would be wrong, and that would be counterproductive.
		So what I want everybody to do with a shortwave receiver is muster up as much antenna as you can, and for the next 48 hours, listen on 6.890.
		You will also see that listed on the website.
		That is UFO-related item number one.
		That is beginning right now and for the next 48 hours.
		Traveling at the speed of light, my voice should, I would rather imagine, make it on out, make it on and out pretty well.
		Now, item number two involves a photograph of a UFO.
		Now, as you might imagine, I get a lot of photographs of UFOs.
		It's just, I guess, I'm a magnet, obviously, for this kind of thing.
		But I received a photograph from Ron Spruss.
		It was taken on April 12th of this year, Easter Sunday, at about 3.30 p.m.
		He used a good quality 35 millimeter Canon F12100 ASA film, 125th second at F8 or 11.
		And it was at a memorial park looking toward the Punch Bowl, a National Veterans Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii.
		And ladies and gentlemen, this cannot be explained.
		It's a good photograph, one of the best I've seen.
		He says, P.S. I was taking photos of cemetery locations that day and did not notice the object in question until later, after developing and printing.
		Upon showing the picture around, a co-worker said he saw similar objects moving about strangely on a ridge above Kauai Kai in the afternoon, that's Hawaii Kai, in the afternoon, the last Sunday in March of 98.
		Aircraft, he adds, are not allowed over a National Veterans Cemetery.
		And I am making efforts to get hold of Ron so he might tell the story himself.
		And I'll make a few more calls as the evening wears on.
		It is early yet in Hawaii.
		But let me tell you, here's what I did.
		I've got the raw photograph.
		As a matter of fact, I'm going to hold the raw photograph, the print of the photograph that he sent me up so that you can see that I've got it.
		As a matter of fact, let me stop the studio cam right here since I managed to sort of hold it up.
		I guess I could get a little closer, but I want you to know that I've got the 35 millimeter raw photograph.
		And nearly as I can tell, folks, there's no way this could be faked.
		The references are very clear.
		The size of the trees, the building, the cemetery, which is in the front of the photograph, the cars, this is a high-quality 35-millimeter photograph.
		And I've got the raw print.
		So I scanned it.
		I scanned first the full photograph, so you can see the references all around it.
		And then I scanned a very narrow little section where the object is located.
	And you can see both now on my website.
	This, in my opinion, is one of the best indecipherable UFO photographs ever taken.
	Not quite perhaps in the Billy Meyer category, but in some ways better than some of the Billy Meyer photographs.
	I think we have a legitimate UFO in this photograph.
	So I want to thank Ron.
	Thank you, Ron.
	Wish I could do it personally, and I'll try to do that on the air.
	This is one hell of a photograph.
	I'm telling you, this is quite a photograph.
	So go on up to my website and take a look.
	I don't think you'll be disappointed.
	Anyway, I certainly would like your opinion.
	It's up there now.
	Once again, 6.890, 6890.
	We should all be listening.
	Any of you who have got ATS-909s or good shortwave receivers should park it on 6890 and listen intently.
	And let's see if we get any form of communication.
	Judging by the two experiments that we did with attempts to mentally communicate, actually it was three, all three of them, to some degree or another worked.
	In other words, there were major sightings shortly after we did the experiment.
	So now let us go to the next level.
	And that is inviting communication on a specific frequency.
	Again, 6890.
	I've got a new drudge report in my hand.
	It says U.S. intelligence, Pakistan, to begin nuke tests as early as Sunday.
	Citing clear signs from spy satellites, American officials are now convinced that Pakistan is preparing for an underground nuclear test, a test that could take place as early as Sunday.
	The test would be conducted at a remote site near Pakistan's western border with Iran.
	One of the warheads would be lowered down a deep shaft, attached to cables and sensors, and exploded.
	So we will see.
	Now, continuing with the report that we had yesterday, this is from Kansas City Art.
	The air quality in Kansas City definitely deserved the red alert that was issued yesterday.
	The sky was a uniform smoky bluish white.
	Wow.
	The sun looked more like a flashlight being held up against a ping-pong ball instead of a distinct disc.
	There's a freeway interchange about five miles from my house that's up high enough to let you see downtown skyline 15 miles away on a normal day.
	It's never a problem.
	Today, the only thing you could see was a bluish-white haze.
	Kansas City, by the way, normally has air quality that most cities would die for, but today we have some of that thick, chunky stuff that Los Angeles gets minus the brown gravy.
	So the fires in Mexico continue.
	President Suharto has resigned.
	Now, whether that is going to stop the rioting or not, we will have to see.
	His replacement is not elected.
	His replacement is simply appointed.
	So you'd think if the people who are rioting are calling for elections, this is not going to stop it, but we shall see.
	Now, Galaxy 4 appears to be lost in space permanently.
	Permanently.
	And so what I hear is their plan is to move Galaxy 6 into Galaxy 4's location and get service back up and going in five or maybe six days.
	Guess who the big loser was with Galaxy 4 going down?
	You've got it.
	The drug dealers.
	Street-level drug dealers, according to Reuters, may have been the biggest losers when a satellite glitch silenced the pagers that pushers used to connect with customers, police and one former drug dealer say.
	The war on drugs is a failure.
	This pager mishap is better than anything the government could do.
	A recently reformed methamphetamine manufacturer and user says, Pager service interrupted last night to 80 to 90% of the nation's 45 million pagers when a satellite Owned by Pan AmSat, suddenly lost track of Earth.
	Pan AmSat said it's going to take about a week to restore service to everybody.
	So there you are.
	And by the way, one more item.
	Actually, I've got many, but I can only fit this in.
	With reference to General A last night, I've got a copy of a newspaper article of that specific incident.
	General A's account.
unidentified		Remember?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		At the time?
		Listen to this.
		Heavenly incident lights up night sky.
		Here's how it was reported in California.
		A giant green fireball that lit up the night sky Thursday and was seen from Los Angeles to San Francisco was probably, get this, a meteor or a piece of a comet, according to Griffith Park Observatory.
		The bright fireball streaked across the sky about 8.45 p.m.
		Astronomer John Mosley said the object may have been a piece of a comet or a meteor from what is called the asteroid belt.
		One of perhaps a shattered planet somewhere between Mars and Jupiter.
		So there you are, and it goes on and gives a report of some people who saw it.
		But whether or not you believe General A last night, the fact of the matter is, that incident certainly did indeed occur precisely as described.
		Again, this photograph by Ron Sprouse is damn good.
		Really, really, really is good.
		It shows an object just barely above the tree line.
		I couldn't say how far away.
		If I can get hold of Ron, he'll tell me, I'm sure.
		But on top of the hill, this has got to be a big, big object.
		Clearly in the blow-up, it is not in any way connected to the trees and separate from them.
		It is a saucer, clearly a saucer-like object.
		It's obviously not an airplane.
		I can't tell you what this is, but it's a good, reliable photograph.
		Finally, in 35 millimeter.
		Now, I would have wished it to be closer to the camera, of course, but it was caught, nevertheless, quite clearly.
		So I would sure be interested in, and it's brand new, and I'd sure be interested in your impressions of this.
		All right, here we go.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
		Hello, Art Bell.
		Yes, sir.
		Hi, my name's Roddy.
		I'm a first-time caller from Florida.
		Welcome.
		Turn your radio off, please.
		I'm turning my computer down now.
		There.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Calling about the satellite picture that you're not sure what it is?
unidentified		Everybody said it's an atomic bomb explosion?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that picture, this or that, we called it.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		You know, I'm looking at that thing, and what I see is a satellite image of a flying saucer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't see that, but I guess, you know, if you look at something long enough, you see anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
unidentified		If it was an atomic explosion, the trees underneath would be blowing to the side, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it would depend on when they caught it.
		If they caught the instant of the detonation, maybe not.
		So I don't know.
unidentified		And how could a shadow be underneath an atomic explosion if an atomic explosion is outbreak?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could be.
		In other words, the instant of the detonation would create something that would block sunlight, that's for sure.
		I don't know.
		I'm not saying it's an atomic explosion.
		I don't know what the hell it is.
unidentified		Okay, but everybody was guessing atomic explosion.
unidentified		I just saw something different.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's because some people drive white cars and some people drive blue cars.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So I appreciate your assessment.
unidentified		Okay, thank you very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you take care, and let's see if we can squeeze one in real quick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
unidentified		Hello.
		How are you doing, Art?
		I was just wondering what your outtake on the solar flare-ups are.
		This is Tony and Denver.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're in the ascension portion of solar cycle 23.
		Whether it's going to be a normal solar cycle, far above normal or not, I don't know.
		My guess would be it's going to be way above normal.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're welcome.
		All right, the ET listen frequency, ET call us frequency, is 6.890 megahertz.
		6890.
		Those of you with receivers, hook them up, get a tape going, and you're going to want to be recording on that frequency because if they're out there and they can hear me, well, let's rock.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		We'll be right back.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an oncore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good morning, everybody.
		I'm Art Bell, and we are conducting the grand experiment tonight.
		Somebody sends the following to me from Source Ferrell's Confidential Frequency Disk.
		He says that 6890 megahertz belongs to VJT in Australia, BGH94 in China, CLN47 in Cuba, and no call letters at all in Zaire.
		So, basically, they don't seem to be using it.
		It seems to be empty.
		It is going to be our listen frequency.
		I listened carefully to a bunch of frequencies looking for a good clear one, and this is definitely a good clear one.
		It's 6.890 megahertz, 6890, and we want everybody with a receiver to get as much antenna out there as you can and listen very closely, because if you are out there, and you know who you are, then we would presume you would have the ability to transmit on a frequency of this sort.
		And if you can discern what I am saying with the millions and millions of watts I am transmitting, then we are listening for you on 6890.
		ET call Earth.
		That issue aside, again, I'm beginning to get already remarkable answers on this photograph I have uplinked, provided by Ron Sprouse in Hawaii.
		I think it's Kenahoe, Hawaii, K-A-N-E-O-H-E Hawaii.
		And Ron, thank you.
		It is one of the most remarkable photographs I have ever seen, and that is up on the website right now, so you're going to want to definitely want to take a look.
		And I want your feedback on it.
		At any rate, we will continue in a moment.
		Well, all right.
		Again, all of you out there, anybody with a shortwave receiver, we are having a mass listen on 6.890, 6890 megahertz.
		If they are out there, then it is entirely reasonable that if they wish to be known, they could certainly transmit.
		My voice and my invitation to do so would be going into space, sailing right past the crippled Galaxy 4 satellite and on out at the speed of light.
		So if there's anybody anywhere nearby, 6890 appears to be the frequency.
		It's clear.
		Even if you're able, do not transmit on there.
		We want to listen and see if we can hear anything extra-terrestrial.
		And I'm assuming that many of you will be recording on that frequency as well, just in case.
		We will continue this experiment over the next 48 hours.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
		My name is John.
		I'm in Pasadena, California.
		Hi, John.
		And I had sent you a couple of faxes, and I wanted to see if you got them.
		They're in regard to the fact that I'm a contact for Robert, the dimension shifter, as you called him.
		robert the dimension shifter i remember he i he called you and told you what does it Okay.
		And I was wondering if you had gotten my faxes because I can put you in touch with him anytime after tonight, actually.
		He's not available tonight, but he will be available tomorrow and on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you should fax me a number where I can get hold of him.
unidentified		I already have, I've said to you, As a matter of fact, I sent you a fax this morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You did?
unidentified		Uh-huh.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would have remembered that, so try it again.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you bet.
		Yes, Robert, the dimension shifter.
		We'll see.
		East of the Rockies, you're on there.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		All right, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How you doing?
unidentified		I made it again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Mark from West Dallas, Wisconsin.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Third time, it's my pleasure to speak to you again.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Glad to have you.
unidentified		Ah, I hope you're in a good mood.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine.
unidentified		I've got the question of the day for you.
		Okay.
		Is it safe to come near Perrump, Nevada, because your son's a pedestrian again?
		Or should we not come near Perump?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, only if you're afraid of walking teens.
unidentified		Ah, did he get in trouble with the law by any chance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, this was one of those situations where he was all by himself doing something really stupid and hid nothing or nobody, just rolled his car.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		I'm just a concerned parent like yourself, and I've got a 15 and a half year old.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was terrified when it occurred, but of course now, since nobody has a scratch, I'm simply mournful of that car I took such good care of.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		That's good.
		The Boston Space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Excellent movie.
unidentified		Did you have a chance to see it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		Why are you asking me?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even like the series.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thought it was dumb.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		Well, it's really a good movie.
		I think it'd be worth an afternoon for yourself.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is it serious or a comedy?
unidentified		Semi-serious and a little comic.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's kind of like the original.
unidentified		Right.
		Third thing.
		And then I'll let you get back to the rest of everybody.
		All right.
		Remember the sounds from the gate from hell?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		Here's the next question of the day.
		If you could get the guys who could build the channel and they built you a nice elevator shaft.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would I go down?
unidentified		Would you go down?
		Who would you take with you?
		And what would you take with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, the answer to your first is, hell no.
		The answer to your second is, I would send somebody.
		I've got several people in mind.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And that's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And what was the third part of that?
unidentified		What would you take with who would you take with you?
unidentified		What would you take with you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think the person I would send would need an asbestos suit.
unidentified		Ah.
unidentified		Okay, Doki.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		Going to hell, going straight to hell, not passing go.
		Yes, indeed.
		No, I wouldn't go down.
		No, of course I wouldn't go down.
		And by the way, while we're on the subject of holes, I've got a new article here, if I can find it.
		Here it is.
		Local geologist finds deep hole.
		The mines closed in 1986.
		In 1990, three teens were found dead in the main corridor, then nothing.
		We have been hoping for an opportunity to explore the old cavern for several years, said Dr. Glenn Quanstrom, professor of geology at Creekside Community College, wherever that is.
		But regional authorities were skittish considering the history of the place.
		The history includes several sudden cave-ins and poison gas.
		That aside, last week Dr. Quanstrom received permission to explore the abandoned mine shafts, long a source of long local curiosity and legend.
		But no legend could compare with what Dr. Quonstrom's team found.
		There must, he said, be a bottom, but we just haven't found it yet.
		The team was unprepared for such a deep hole, but did lower two miles, I repeat, two miles of makeshift line down it.
		It would have taken more if we had it, said one of the diggers with the team.
		This is really exciting stuff.
		Dr. Construm is not quite as vocal about it, but is obviously excited to explore further.
		So there you go, a two-mile deep hole.
		And they are going to continue, this is in Concord, California, they are going to continue to try and determine exactly how deep it is.
		It's a newspaper article.
		And so if you think these hole stories are bogus, you are wrong.
		They are absolutely real.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Art Bell, my good friend.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, hello.
unidentified		Yeah, let me give the old Ron Brown treatment to this here radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Let's do this, the old Kansas Corn Servative.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're getting rid of your favorite federal radio.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Cleaned it shut up, didn't I?
		Yeah.
		Anyhow, I was just wondering if you do hear anything on this particular frequency.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		How are you boycotting to figure out where it came from?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, there is no specific way to do so, and the moment we get anything real on that frequency, a hit, in Bell's experiment, we would, of course, turn it over to SETI.
unidentified		Wouldn't it be funny if I'm sure you've listened to CNN a lot of times because I've heard him say so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Constantly.
unidentified		And you know James Earl Jones.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I'm a CNN.
unidentified		Nobody can imitate his voice, but this is CNN, you know, just shakes the whole room.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		Wouldn't it be nice if you got that voice that this is UFO?
unidentified		Just like him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I've got my announcer.
		He's pretty good.
		He's pretty close.
unidentified		Oh, he's fantastic.
		Just makes you shiver when he gives your breaks here for you.
		What'd you do with the Geo?
		Did you jump it or you still got it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is sitting in a rather sad, squashed, stationary position at the moment while we try and decide what to do.
unidentified		I'll tell you what, if you'll give your fax number here a little bit later, because I don't have a pencil in my hand right now.
		Yes, I do too, have one.
		I'll send you a fax tomorrow.
		I'll make you an offer.
		How's that?
		The weather in Kansas looked like a beautiful day in L.A. today.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty awful what's going on down there, and we're not being told.
unidentified		If we just had some palm trees, you could think you were in sunny Southern California.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You mean smoggy Southern California?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weird.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, why don't we put Steve Benson down that bowl?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like the source of a reasonable cartoon to me.
unidentified		I just was sitting here thinking about that, and I figured it might be a good idea.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not bad, sir.
unidentified		Hey, how are you doing otherwise?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm just fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm in the middle of my giant experiment here.
unidentified		Right-oh.
unidentified		Well, good luck with the experiment.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a shortwave receiver?
unidentified		No, I sure don't.
		I've got to buy one of those thawn jeans, huh?
		Yeah.
		Yeah, need one.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Okay, thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
		We will continue this experiment for 48 hours.
		48 hours.
		The frequency, again, is 6.890, 6890.
		And I want everybody with a portable radio and any kind of antenna, the best you can muster, to be listening intently on that frequency and recording, if you can, over the next 48 hours for who knows what we may hear.
		6890.
		It is reasonable to assume that my voice, particularly on the FM band, but AM as well, is zooming right on out into space at the speed of light.
		And if anybody is out there or in the nearby vicinity, a request to transmit on a certain frequency, I've never heard anybody do it before.
		So I thought, why not?
		Our own little SETI program.
		Our own little SETI program and on a frequency in which most of my listeners can listen.
		If you've got shortwave, 6.890.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		What show is this?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This is Art Bell's show.
unidentified		Art Bell, this Art?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Great.
unidentified		I just had a question for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Oh, I'm sorry.
		Seattle, Washington.
		Seattle.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		And actually, I live in Fort Orchard, but it's easier to know where Seattle is.
unidentified		When they drop those cameras down the holes, why don't they drop the a camera and a light down there so they can see where they're going?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about this hole I just talked about?
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it makes sense to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I but I mean all you're going to see is as far as the light can penetrate and then darkness, you're already talking about being down two miles.
unidentified		Oh, that's true.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what is so fascinating about holes in the ground.
unidentified		You don't know what's in it.
unidentified		Until you get there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would even create a hole that deep?
unidentified		Probably water erosion or volcanic activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		These are all really, really, really good questions.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right, sir.
		I sincerely appreciate it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you and take care.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Oh, wow.
		How cool.
		And as some of you may or I was just handed something, as some of you may or may not know, I'll use the line they use on CM.
		This just in.
		I hear my wife laughing in the other room.
		I wrote a book about myself, you know, my life and all that, and it has been updated and is going to be back out in August.
		It's called The Art of Talk.
		It'll be a big book.
		In the first book, the manager that I had in Las Vegas at KDWN Radio, which is where I really got my start doing this program, did not get us a photograph.
		She promised to get us one and didn't get us one.
		That would be Claire Reese.
		And by golly, by gum, here it is.
		My wife just handed it to me, a picture of Claire Reese.
		It is going to go in the book in the new book that's going to be out in August.
		Here she is, Claire Reese.
		Matter of fact, I had to put this up on the website.
		Claire was my, I could talk hours about Claire, and I'm sure she could talk hours about me, too.
		It was a very unusual relationship for a lot of years, and she's a great lady.
		One of the meanest ladies I ever met, boy.
		She's a mean lady.
		I'll tell you what.
		You don't want to get in that lady's way.
		She'll mow you over like an errant weed.
		Anyway, I've got her photograph.
		Thank you, Claire.
unidentified		Just got it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hello?
		Yes, sir.
		How are you tonight?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, Arkhorn in Southeast British Columbia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I've got an ecological disaster to report.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh-oh.
unidentified		Yeah, Okanagan Lake, south-central British Columbia.
unidentified		There's over 50,000 salmon killed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My God, why what?
unidentified		Well, I heard the news on the radio yesterday and today, and they claim it's not an environmental situation.
		In other words, there's no spill or anything like that.
		However, the city of Vernon, which is at the north end of the lake, does empty its treated sewage into the lake.
		Now, whatever that means, treated sewage.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that means sewage that has the oomph taken out of it, I guess.
unidentified		I don't know.
		Probably something like that.
		But anyway, it covers approximately the top one-sixth to one-fifth of the lake, 25 kilometers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you drink a big old glass of treated sewage?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
unidentified		They say it's quite safe.
unidentified		They suspect that it's viral or bacterial.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, usually the guys who run these sewage treatment plants are the first to deny that it is them, right?
unidentified		Oh, absolutely.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So why doesn't everybody write a letter to this guy and suggest that he, for demonstration purposes, drink a tall, full, cool glass of treated sewage to make us all feel safe?
unidentified		They treat us all like mushrooms.
		They grow mushrooms in the dark, and you know what they feed them.
		That's about it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, sir.
unidentified		I appreciate the call.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, thank you.
		And once again, it is the great experiment.
		Hear me, folks.
		Anybody with a shortwave radio out there, and I'm sure some of you have got one, this should have occurred to me a long time ago.
		A caller, to be honest, gave me this idea last week, and I thought, God, what a great idea.
		If they are out there within any reasonable distance, a transmission on 6890 would not be a problem for them, right?
		And a way to let us know they are there, correct?
		So, I want all of you listening on 6.890 megahertz, recording if possible, so that if we get something, we get some proof of it.
		Well, Claire Reese, thank you for sending that photograph, and it may just make it in under the publication deadline for the next issue of my book.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		I got to get right back where we started long.
		I remember that day, when you first came my way, I didn't.
		No one can take your place And if you get hurt, if you get hurt I don't think that me.
		I can set a mile back on your face.
		Thank you.
		Thank you.
		Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bells somewhere in Time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		Good morning, everybody.
		In a moment, Professor Dixon from Hawaii, and he'll be talking about, along with other things, supernova from experimentation.
		Supernovas in the basement.
		Great, huh?
		We'll see what he means by that in a moment.
		The Sanjee...
		I have picked a clear frequency in the shortwave spectrum, 6890 specifically, 6.890, in the shortwave spectrum.
		And we are going to listen for any transmission from anywhere else, you know, out there.
		Many of my listeners have shortwave radios.
		If you do, over the next 48 hours, listen intently on 6890, 6.890, and let's see what you hear, and let's see what you're able to record.
		48 hours of solid listening, folks.
		you you Paul William Dixon was born in New York City, August 1st, 1936, educated at Blackburn College, received his Bachelor of Arts degree in English in 1960, went on to receive a master's degree in 63 and a doctorate in 1966 in experimental psychology from the University of Hawaii, where he developed a lifelong love of the land and the people there.
		Easily understandable.
		He accepted a position as professor of psychology at the University of Hawaii at Hilo in 1965 and has remained to this day, having held the position of chairman for the College of Arts and Sciences and chairman of the psychology department, as well as serving on a number of committees during the ensuing years in 1971 and 2.
		Dr. Dixon was a visiting professor of psychology at Sofia University in Tokyo, Japan.
		Now, he is currently listed in Who's Who in America, as well as the latest edition of Who's Who in the World.
		He has been, I believe, nominated for a Nobel Prize, or has he won one?
		Am I reading this properly?
		We'll just ask him.
		There's a lot to read here.
		He's done a lot.
		He's done research in DNA and life extension with an immortalized autograph that we'll have to ask about that.
		Dr. Dixon pioneered genetic-engineered immunotherapy of cancer.
		This man has been into many, many areas of science, so obviously there are many questions we can ask him.
		Professor, welcome to the program.
		Welcome.
		Especially from Hawaii.
		Professor, were you nominated for a Nobel Prize?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have been nominated for the Nobel Prize, I think, about three times now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Three times?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		About three times.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		This is for the work dealing with the topic this evening, the supernova from experimentation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's see what we mean by supernova from experimentation.
		Now, a supernova, as I understand it, is the explosion of a star.
		So when you say supernova from experimentation, what do you mean?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's, as you know, there's a history of accidents in high energy physics.
		These accidents, if you're familiar with the field, have become increasingly large.
		You're dealing with atomic energy and things like that.
		And scientists may be killed, and larger and larger areas that are then destroyed by what is called an oversight in their equation.
		So it's only common sense, and we'll call it horse sense then, to understand that as these energies are now used in high-energy physics accelerators, the energies found that only trillionths of a second after the Big Bang, that's the origin of the universe.
		If we have a laboratory mischance, we'll call it a screw-up, this would be of the greatest proportions.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just one little miscalculation in an equation.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		It's just an oversight.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		It's called, in physics, an oversight of the equation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An oversight.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If that were to occur and a supernova were to result, there would be no review board, I guess, looking at it, huh?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the energies then that are found in the sitter space, which is the sort of dimension that we could enter into, are something like 10 to the 126 electron volts per cubic centimeter.
		So that all the people then in modern physics have agreed that if we penetrated or made a transition then into the sitter space, this would be sufficient energy to produce a supernova here on Earth.
		Here on Earth.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What would happen specifically to the Earth in such a case?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is the amount of energy is sufficiently great to then vaporize the planet, the solar system, perhaps also to turn our Sun into a neutron star and then to spread an explosion out to engulf the nearby stars out to the distance of about 50 light years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good heavens.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		This is the standard formula for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So we would vaporize, but we would vaporize all the other planets in our system and maybe on out to 50 light years.
		So indeed, there'd be no review board.
		There'd be no gee, sorry about that or anything else.
		We'd simply be gone.
		Now, is it realistic?
		In other words, are there actually people doing work in this area?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the main laboratory now in the world is this Fermilab, which is in the suburbs of Chicago.
		This is the world's largest accelerator.
		It's now scheduled to increase its energies by tenfold up to 20 trillion electron volts by 1999.
		You can easily find this site on the internet to look at Fermilab, and you might be able to sign up for a seminar.
		So my suggestion under these circumstances is that we need to examine this barrier, the potential barrier, between Desider space and our continuum before we have a transition to De Sitter space.
unidentified		is this you keeps calling it what is D-E-D-E capital S-I-T-T-E-R.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desitter space.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Desider.
		So the universe now is called the Einstein-De Sitter universe.
		That's its technically correct name.
		So you have the Einstein part that we are resident in, and then you have Desitter.
		His space then surrounds our universe.
		And it also, in a strange sense, touches our universe at every point.
		So there's a kind of potential barrier between our space and Desider space.
		And if you make a hole into it, then you're going to have this sort of backlash of very great energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is desider space essentially another dimension?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		It's another dimension.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I believe you've had Michiho Kaku, a great physicist.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Dr. Michiu Kaku, who says there are 10 and now possibly even 11 other dimensions.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		So he would be very familiar with these ideas.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And the sitter space then is recognized as one of these dimensions and has a lot of energy in it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there are actually people then using accelerators.
		What are they trying to accomplish?
		In other words, I doubt they're trying to accomplish, hopefully they're not trying to accomplish a supernova.
		They're obviously working towards some other goal that you are worried will result in the possibility of a supernova.
		What are they doing?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, The ongoing problems that they're looking at have to do with the description of the particles in quantum mechanics.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		They're looking then to observe symmetrical relationships amongst the particles like leptons and quarks, trying to look at quarks and how they constitute particles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We haven't actually seen a quark yet, have we?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		No, they're bound within the particles, but you can sort of deduce their presence by splitting other particles.
		And in this way, you might be able then to understand the building blocks of the universe.
		So the use then of the accelerator is just this, to understand the building blocks of the universe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So as we look at these little tiny things, sorry to interrupt these quarks or whatever else we're looking at, how is it possible that we might, by mistake, stumble into the creation Of a hole, if you will, and a supernova-type explosion.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the understanding in physics then is that there is this very large potential barrier between our continuum and the sitter space.
		So if we break or puncture this potential barrier, then we would release this energy on Earth.
		So I think in everyday language this would be a side effect of the experiment.
		So they're looking for one thing and then they would discover this other energy.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That frequently occurs in science.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		As it's again this oversight in their equations.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you actually established that looking have you actually looked at their equations and established, Professor, you believe this is indeed possible?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I think everyone who is knowledgeable in this field would concur, would agree that this is indeed possible.
		The only counter-argument I have received from those knowledgeable in the field is that this might be a small supernova.
		A small supernova might only go out 10 light years.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't matter much to us, would it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How close are they to beginning the level of experiments that would begin to enter this realm?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, this is my concern.
		We have all of the equations.
		They're very well known.
		The parameters are well known.
		So my suggestion would be then that we take these equations and use computer simulations to look at the barrier between the sitter space and our continuum.
		That's our space-time.
		Look at these equations very, very carefully and determine beforehand what the dangers are, rather than just blindly plunge ahead into the unknown.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that what we usually do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I recall back to the first detonation of an atomic bomb, and I think that a substantial number of the scientists involved in the project were concerned that there might be a chain reaction in our atmosphere virtually burning us up.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And so there is a similar concern here with even a bigger result.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And I think that we have to take a look then at your equations very carefully and have the results of this presented to the public.
		The general public should be made aware of this.
		Many of my dear friends here in the university have said they want to be appraised of this.
		They're knowledgeable people and they are concerned.
		They'd like to be appraised of all these findings.
		And then the results of these very careful studies should be placed in reviewed journals.
		And then there should be a debate as to its safety.
		And we should go through it as you do a normal question in science.
		And in this way, everyone would be satisfied.
		But now we're just sort of going ahead willy-nilly.
		And you can never do that, as you know, in the real world.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But is that what we usually do?
		And I'll cite another example.
		In California recently, and God knows, I feel sorry for anybody with AIDS, but they completely destroyed an AIDS patient's immune system and attempted to replace it with the immune system of a baboon.
		Now, I don't know a lot about genetics, but I know enough that that sort of worries me.
		In other words, there could be some sort of transfer, it seems to me, from animal to human of something that we wouldn't much like were it to occur.
		And they went ahead and just did that and announced it to the world after they did it.
		And I complained about that bitterly at the time, saying, listen, if this could possibly affect all of us, then it seems to me there should be good scientific and public review of this sort of thing before we plunge ahead.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think this is the very cautious approach that you would find then among serious scientists.
		They would like to see all of the various measures, the various parameters carefully outlined.
		We know then that there's a possibility of forming a throat.
		This is what is called a throat too, another dimension.
		This has been published recently in Physics Review, the most noted journal in the area.
		So we know then that there is the possibility of having this kind of throat or hole then into the sitter space.
		We know this is true.
		We should then assess the possibilities and the probabilities forming this kind of pathway to these energies.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you believe that the Big Bang in fact was as advertised something smaller than a quark suddenly instantly becoming all that we now know and can see out 12 billion years or whatever beyond?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think this is the accepted model now in standard physics.
		It could have been then not just a point but a wave action of some sort.
		That would be the modern refinement.
		But there's enough evidence.
		I think it was Wilson and Penzias then received the Nobel Prize for finding the residual radio frequency left over from the Big Bang.
		And so they discovered this.
		They were Bell Telephone Laboratory scientists, and they found this with their huge horn antenna there near Princeton and New Jersey.
		And sure enough, that was worthy of the Nobel Prize.
		So I think there's enough evidence for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I just find that difficult.
		Is there any way to explain to the layman, in some words, we can understand, how something smaller than a quark, which we have not yet even really seen, becomes all of this?
		Is there any way to explain that so we could understand it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think that the real quality of energy that we're dealing with, the level of energy, is something which is outside of the ordinary understanding of most people.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		There was recently, I think within the last week, there was a story in our local newspaper showing then that in some uh distant galaxy there was a a point uh that blinked on uh for a few seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And this outshone the entire universe uh for those few seconds.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And they actually are saying it was competitive with the power of the Big Bang itself.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, that's uh so again there the article I think was quite clear in indicating that none of the standard models within black hole understanding, none of these kinds of models then had a hope of explaining it.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		But my notion that you could occasionally have this sort of transition to the sitter space would easily explain that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, all right, stand by.
		We are at the bottom of the hour.
		My guest is Professor Paul W. Dixon, and he is very, very serious.
unidentified		Chicago, huh?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right in the middle of the country.
		Not that it would matter, because one little mistake in one equation could actually produce here on Earth, in the Chicago area, a supernova that would more or less vaporize us and most things out to about 50 light years.
		How warm and fuzzy does it make you feel?
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		My guest is Professor Paul W. Dixon from the University of Hawaii at Hilo.
		And he is very serious.
		He is suggesting that experiments about to go on in Chicago could, with miscalculation, produce a supernova, a little tearing between our space and something called the Sitter space that would release energy equivalent to a supernova, not only vaporize Earth and our Sun, our system, but perhaps everything to 50 light years out.
		It'd be a real big oops.
unidentified		pain pain Thank you.
unidentified		Thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Don't forget our experiment, 6890, our little SETI experiment.
		We are all listening on 6.890 megahertz.
		If you hear anything, we want to know about it.
		All right.
		My guest again, Professor Paul W. Dixon.
		And here is a facts, Professor.
		If your guest is right, does creating a transition to Desider space create energy out of nothing?
		Is that in effect what it is doing?
		If so, people in the far distant future could use the method to keep producing energy virtually forever, outliving the dying stars in the far distant future, true immortality limited by nothing.
		Is that a reasonable hypothesis?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would say that the in the sense that the energy is there, it's just not creating the energy out of nothing.
		It's just you would just be plugging into it.
		So I have advanced the idea that the type 1A supergha are caused then by other civilizations which reach a high level civilization, something that we are attempting to do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's a So you agree with Professor Kaku regarding the levels of civilizations?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, you could our level then might be the terminal level unless you have someone warning you, as you have here, because you would then inadvertently perform this kind of experiment whereupon that would be the end of your civilization.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So before you learned how to tap into the power available there, you would certainly open the hole that would do you in.
		Second question, same factor.
		If a bunch of guys at Fermilab might create such a transition, shouldn't it Happen in nature.
		Nature makes some pretty big explosions too.
		If two neutron stars crashed, why doesn't this create energies on the order that your guest is speaking of?
		In short, is there any evidence that these desider explosions occur in nature?
		If we can do it, nature ought to be able to.
		And if nature does not, I'm sure, I'm not so sure that we can.
		It's a reasonable question.
		Now, this explosion detected the other day, would that be evidence or possible evidence, in your opinion, of exactly that kind of explosion?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, in what I'm talking about, our supernova, we have then the type 1A supernova, which is what I am describing.
		These are then two and a half times larger than the other supernova.
		We'll say these are the ones in nature.
		They come from larger objects, about 10 or more solar masses that implode, and they cause the type II supernova.
		They're actually smaller, even though they come from a much larger mass.
		Now, the smaller ones, the ones that I think are generated by intelligent beings, much like ourselves, these smaller ones then show no trace of hydrogen at maximum light or luminosity.
		So for these kinds of events, as the type Ia supernova, there seems to be no better explanation for these vast explosions than from experimentation and high-energy physics by intelligent beings much like ourselves.
		So again, in answer to that question, nature then, through the implosion of the type II supernova, this is 10 or more solar masses and there's a lot of hydrogen there.
		These are very big objects.
		They then produce also supernova.
		So we have small objects producing the energy of a supernova.
		They show no hydrogen.
		When they explode, they come from things smaller than something called the Chandra-Cetar limit even, 0.7 solar masses.
		And then they're very much larger than the type II supernova, which are generated from large objects that, so I say, reach the limit of their ability to withstand the wave, and then they just implode.
		So that's a very good question.
		I like that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You, frankly, you're coming on the air with me because you consider there to be a genuine, fairly near-term danger of this.
		Is that correct?
		That's correct.
		How near-term?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this would be, again, if you can easily access this on your Internet, you can then look at the website for Fermilab, and then there's another website for CERN, capital C-E-R-N, all capitals.
		And you can see then that they are telling us on these websites that the energies now employed are one trillionth of a second energies after the Big Bang, the explosion at the origin of the universe.
		So I would say that we're already clearly pushing a kind of limit and we should stand back and take a look at it before we just proceed unwittingly over the age, as it were.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How likely do you consider it to be that type zero civilizations, which I guess we are, that's what Professor Kaku suggests we are, what are the odds as we reach this precipice that you're talking about, that we deal with it wisely versus plunging ahead and creating the end?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think it was the very famous astronomer, Carl Sagan, who, in answer to that question, said that we have a number of ways whereby we can terminate ourselves as our experimentation, our knowledge of nature increases by leaps and bounds,
		and yet we're not really knowledgeable of the limits of things, that we could terminate our existence and become extinct as a species, much as I think it's something like 99% of all previous species have become extinct.
		So I would concur, I would agree then with Professor Carl Sagan in saying that we have already reached this kind of threshold and we should simply be very careful in our further activity.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		You mentioned a couple of websites.
		Would you again give the address because we can get links up to those very quickly.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't exactly have the information, but you have the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory that's within the city limits of Chicago, and you can easily access that.
		It's Fermi Lab, F-E-R-M-I-L-A-B.
		And then the other website is also easily locatable.
		It's CERN, capital C, capital E, capital R, capital N. CERN.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		My webmaster, I'm sure, is listening, and we'll go after these right away.
		And you say that even on their own websites, do they actually deal with the possibility that you are discussing tonight outright?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
		But I have, I think a couple of years ago, I stood outside of the Fermi Lab right south of Chicago, and myself and my college friends, I went to college in central Illinois, as you mentioned earlier, and my college buddies and I stood out in front of Fermilab and waved signs.
		And all of the scientists from the ring, that's the circular accelerator, came out into the public way there and discussed higher level physics with us.
		It was very exciting.
		We did that for two days in July.
		So I would say that they're aware of our questions.
		And I would like to see these questions then examined by the general public and also, shall we say, put through a review journal process of careful examination.
		And then when everyone has carefully decided on the safety or lack of safety, we can go ahead or not go ahead as we deem fit.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, Professor, I can assure you the general public is not aware because when I saw the subject we were going to be talking about this evening, I said, huh?
		Supernova from experimentation.
		Now I'm not a physics student, but I talk to a lot of people like yourself, and this has never been raised before as an issue.
		So I can assure you, the general public is not aware of even this possibility.
		You are just now telling them that.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		This is why I want to thank you very, very much for bringing this to the attention of the general public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's one more thing to worry about.
		We've got the bomb, we've got chemical and biological warfare, we've got lots of things to worry about, and now we've got the ultimate thing to worry about, and that would simply blink us out instantly.
		We would never have any warning nor know that it's coming, nor, I suppose, would the people doing the experimentation.
		What specific kind of experimentation are you most concerned about?
		In other words, what could they do to suddenly produce this in error?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this at the current moment, they're in Fermilab.
		They are going to shut the accelerator down for about half a year.
		So this next half a year, it will be shut down.
		And they're going to construct a Bevatron which will enable them to increase the energy level by tenfold.
		So before they turn this on, in central Illinois, I think we should then have this kind of logical and careful discussion of the various possibilities.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I take it that prior to going on a public forum like this one, Professor, you must have engaged in some high-level communication with the people at the lab.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What kind of answer do you get?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, as we stood out in front of the Fermi lab and the various scientists came and spoke with us, we again discussed these matters just as we now are on the air.
		And again, the same conclusion was reached.
		And they agreed that possibly I should actually present my ideas in their physics congresses, international meetings.
		This is where this kind of discussion should occur.
		But I would like to then bring the general public into this since everyone's concerned at this point.
		I would like to see everyone then have a look at the decision being made since their welfare is intimately involved in these decisions.
		We can't simply assume that everything will go well.
		I think everyone follows the thinking of Carl Sagan.
		We're on the precipice in many, many areas, as you just mentioned, and we have to be very careful.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there could be a regional nuclear war, for example, between India and Pakistan that I believe the majority of the world might suffer but would survive.
		With what you're talking about, it's just instant extinction of everything.
		That's it.
unidentified		Gone.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Now, is there any evidence of any explosion that we have seen or witnessed astronomically other than the one we talked about a little while ago that would seem to be what we're talking about here, either in nature or man, why I say man-made, made by some intelligence.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Type 1A supernova then have one of the very curious kinds of things associated with them.
		You have the very famous scientist Subharman Shadrasekar, who is a very well-known physicist, received the Nobel Prize in Physics.
		And he demonstrated then that in order for a sun to implode, that is to make a kind of explosion, or the beginnings of an explosion, it had to reach 1.4 solar masses.
		That is about 1.5 times the mass of our sun.
		And some of these, the type 1A supernova then are at the level of 0.7.
		That would be about half of the mass needed to reach the Chandra-Seekar limit.
		So this is very troublesome then to the physicist.
		But again, I had a very dear friend who was a physicist.
		and I explained to him how I had been instrumental in stopping the development at the superconducting supercollider in Texas.
		He was very angered by this because he felt that no matter what the dangers were, I had submitted my papers then to members of Congress.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gian, here I thought that the reason it was stopped was money.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, that was the kind of feeling that was presented, I feel, through the press.
		But if you read the scientific literature, they said, well, everything was going very smoothly.
		It was speeding on its way through Congress with no opposition when suddenly it was stopped, and no one could quite understand that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And you're saying it's not all money.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was some knowledge then of these possibilities.
		I had also communicated earlier with the governor of Texas.
		And so the provision then made by the state of Texas was that if the development of the superconducting supercollider was not more than halfway, which it wasn't, then the state of Texas very cleverly said we get everything, and they did.
		They got all of the factories and the tunnel and everything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's another facts.
		Dear Art, I agree with Professor Kaku that the source of the gamma-ray blast detected on December 14th, 12 billion light years from Earth, could indeed be the collision of two massive black holes.
		Stephen Hawking postulates that separation of black holes after such a collision would create wormholes that could be used for space travel.
		I'd like to ask Dr. Dixon's opinion about the theoretical physics of creating wormholes via two artificial black holes absent a singularity, then displaced in space but connected by hyperphysics, could be used for space travel of an advanced civilization similar to that used in the movie Contact.
		Could that be done?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I if you look at a recent article in the Physics Review, it showed then that the very large sizes needed for, say, space travel could be theoretically understood from the point of view of physics and also mathematics.
		So that I would say that as far as a theory of going from one place to another and also time travel, would also be theoretically possible with the use of the white hole, as it's called.
		On the other hand, it will take quite a while to develop that because the action of gravity and other forces within the white hole would be very intense.
		So you might not survive it, but perhaps an inanimate object could pass it for a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, in the creation of the atomic bomb, we have not only used two in anger, but we have detonated many, many, many tests, the most recent being by India.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So if we look at the possibility of a desider space penetration, it's almost incomprehensible to imagine it could be done and we won't do it.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Again, this is what many people have said.
		They said, well, we have a kind of tendency, a sort of tendency then in our species to sort of plunge ahead, right?
		That's what you're saying?
		Plunge ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm saying.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And regardless of any consequences.
		And so I'm saying then, in the light of our understanding of the sitter space, we should take some time out to consider it before we plunge ahead.
		I think it's only then the weight of public opinion which can stop this kind of development.
		If everyone is concerned, then it will be stopped.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can tell you I'm concerned.
		I guess the next question, obvious question is, what can the public do?
		The public who is barely beginning to understand this.
		Actually, we are at the top of the hour, Professor, so relax for about 10 minutes.
		We'll be right back to you.
		Professor Paul W. Dixon is my guest, and we will be right back.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Father me and you.
		and i think to myself what a wonderful world I see skies of blue, the skies of white, the brightness of the day, the dark night.
		And I think to myself, what a wonderful world The colors of the rainbow, So pretty in the sky, also on the faces of people going by.
		Thank you.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And my guest is Professor Paul W. Dixon.
		I'm going to try and encapsulate this for you, those of you joining at this hour, but it is absolutely a remarkable thing he's telling me.
		I've never heard it before, and so I suspect you never have either.
		But going on now in Chicago is the building of, I guess, an accelerator, I guess that's the way to put it, that will actually have the possibility of creating here on Earth,
		if there is a miscalculation easily made, a supernova which would not only vaporize our planet completely, but vaporize virtually everything out to about 50 light years.
		Are we kidding?
		Is he kidding?
		No.
		Three times nominated for a Nobel Prize.
		He apparently had quite a bit to do with stopping the accelerator in Texas, and now he is very, very concerned about what's going on in Chicago at the Fermi Lab, where they are building this new faster, greater, more powerful machine, accelerator, I guess.
		And I'm a little weak on that point.
		We'll check in a moment.
		But he is very, very serious.
		And we could be literally months away from extinction as a planet, as a system.
		And he's trying to warn the world.
		And that's why he's here.
		Now we'll get back to him in a moment.
unidentified		you Well, that really is odd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		For some reason, I cannot seem to get back to the professor.
		The number provided here.
		All of a sudden is not going through.
		Isn't that strange?
		I've had some of the strangest stuff happen to me as a talk show host, particularly when I'm doing this kind of interview.
		Let me try this again.
		Let's see what happens.
		We should get the professor, but let's see what we get.
unidentified		We're sorry.
unidentified		You have reached a number that has been disconnected.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You've got to be kidding.
unidentified		If you feel you have reached it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have got to be kidding.
		Now, that number was working five minutes ago, folks.
		I repeat, that number was working five minutes ago.
		Now, how do you figure?
		A very, very, very interesting interview with Professor Paul Dixon.
		And he's just suddenly gone.
		I just don't understand that at all.
		I guess we can try it one more time and see if we can reach him.
		This just can't be.
		The phone company has got something kind of screwed up.
		Let's see.
		Boy, I'm telling you, this is really something.
		This has happened to me over the years, I don't know, a good dozen times.
		And let's see if we can get the professor.
		Hi, Professor Dixon.
		Stand by a second.
		I think that I've got him back.
		Really odd stuff.
		All right, Professor Dixon, are you there?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I am here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, something really odd happened, and we lost connection.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I see.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then when I dialed back, it gave me an out of service.
		I actually did that on the air.
		It gave me an out of service.
		And then when I tried it just now, finally, at 15 minutes past the hour, it was back in service.
		Really weird.
		Anyway, welcome back.
		And we do have people in Los Angeles joining us at this hour who will just be coming in cold.
		But again, going on at the Fermi Lab in Chicago is, they're building an accelerator.
		Is that what it is?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, the accelerator now has been going on for quite a number of years.
		And I was able to communicate with the director, John Peeples Jr., Dr. John Peeples Jr.
		And we were able to keep the energies at 1.8 trillion electron volts.
		It could conceivably have gone up to 2 trillion electron volts, but I guess he was convinced enough by my arguments to keep it about 10% below its full energy for about 10 years now.
		He's been again criticized in the literature for doing that, as you would well imagine.
		But now, as I think also you have mentioned, the sort of general thrust of mankind is to go ahead willy-nilly to increase the energies, and so they're now going to have some downtime, and then within a very short period of time, that's within half a year, they'll be starting up again in the, let's see, 1999 with about 10 times their current energy.
		So moving it up then to about 20 trillion electron volts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, so if you were concerned enough to get him to reduce it by 10%, and now they are prepared to go to 10 times the power.
		That's correct.
		This is way, way beyond, obviously, what you consider to be any sort of margin of safety at all.
		Is that so?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That would be correct.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		So this is why I have a very general concern at this time that before they again increase the energy that we go through a careful review process and look at it not just, shall I say, in terms of what the scientists think, but the general public should be satisfied that it is completely safe and then they can go ahead.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		If the public wanted to express its concern about this, how would they properly do it?
		How do you apply pressure on this sort of thing?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, you can call your congressman or in Canada your parliamentary representative and this way make sure that the development at Fermilab is stopped right now.
		And also we have the greater development at CERN in Switzerland and this could also be halted due to public pressure.
		We have right, I think it was today across the globe, we have then President Suharto who is one of the great dictators of all time who had to step down because of public pressure.
		So I think the public should not underestimate its ability to halt this kind of thing until the public is satisfied that it's completely safe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, while that's true, I think they now have a new dictator as opposed to elections.
		So I'm very concerned that they're going to go ahead with this anyway.
		Are they showing any signs based on your communication and worries and what you've had to say about all of this thus far, of slowing down or not doing it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this, again, we look at the actual halting of the development of the SSC, the super collider in Texas, and then the ability of the director, I believe, to keep Fermilab from its full energies for about 10 years, 1.8 trillion electron volts would have could have done 2 trillion.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And so I think that there's very good evidence that the people in charge are responsive to public pressure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What is the, ostensibly, what is the scientific reason for going up in power the way they obviously intend to do?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Why are they doing it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, we can think of this as a kind of a race, actually, between the people at CERN, that's in Switzerland, and now the people in Furbilab, because the people who have the highest energies are able to discover the top quark or the bottom quark or whatever they're looking for.
		They're able then to get the Nobel Prize, if you will, for these fundamental discoveries.
		And so we, since the CERN group, we would say, is going forward with all understanding of these possibilities, just going forward, we have to, in a sense, allow our scientists a chance of making fundamental discoveries.
		So it's a race, a horse race, between various countries around the globe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A race to doomsday, possibly.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, it could easily be that.
		And so let us at least take some time to look at the parameters and examine them through computer simulation.
		That's an easy answer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Desider space, another dimension.
		What are we to imagine in our heads?
		Can you make a word picture that might even describe what this other dimension would be like?
		Would there be time as we know it?
		Or would there be planets and suns as we know it here?
		Or would it be so utterly different without time and space and matter as we understand it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the energy density comes from the fact that the matter density is 10 raised to the 93rd power in terms of grams per cubic centimeter.
		So water is one, one gram per cubic centimeter at freezing.
		And we'll say if you take that and you raise that to with 93 zeros after that's the density of the sitter space.
		It's extremely dense and the heat and all these other parameters are at that level.
		So it's extremely hot and extremely dense.
		And that's where the energy comes from.
		It says all those parameters.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So there's really nothing that we have reference for to understand what the sitter space would be?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Except if it had a breach into our continuum, then I think it would be easily imagined that it would be the force of a supernova.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		A supernova.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which again would certainly quickly vaporize our planet, no problem, our sun, our system, and probably 50 light years out.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And this could occur with a small miscalculation, and it could occur, according to what you're saying, OSA, perhaps within the year?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Within the year, right.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		In the sense that the new Fermilab Bevatron will be coming online, I believe, early in 99.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How many scientists join you in this concern?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, all of the scientists I have spoken with, we have here on our island, we have then the best astronomical observatories on the peak of Mauna Kay, a very large mountain.
		I've spoken then to all the astrophysicists, and they all concur that if you carry on these kinds of experiments to their limit, you're going to produce a supernova.
		So there's no doubt in anybody's mind.
		I think I mentioned the only counter-argument is that it would be a small supernova, which is neither here nor there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		To us.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yes, exactly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		As you look at, is there any way mathematically of calculating the probability of that?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I think so.
		I think that with modern computers and they have the equations, it would be quite possible to calculate the probability of going into the sitter space.
		And this is what I'm looking for.
		Again, these would be done very carefully by the leading scientists and then published in reviewed journals like the journal Nature.
		And they would look at it very carefully.
		And at that point, they would say, well, it's either safe or it's not safe.
		And we could then proceed on that basis.
		That would be my notion.
		I think Carl Sagan also would have agreed with that.
		We can't just plunge off of a cliff, plunge blindly into the unknown.
		We need to look at things very carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So people could contact their congressmen and simply ask them to halt this now.
		You would like it halted now and a complete review done.
		Or could it go forward with a review concurrent with it?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would think that what should be done now is they should have a complete halt to further development, both here and at CERN, a complete halt to development, which would save our country a lot of money, which we need, I would say, very much for other kinds of activities.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		And at this point, while we have a kind of breathing space, do very careful studies, and then we go ahead when we're fully sure of its safety or if it's not safe, then we'll have saved a lot of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You can't even make a ballpark guesstimate.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Should they go plunging ahead as they are now and as they appear prepared to do of what the chances are of disaster?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, from a probability point of view, you would have to say that as we go further and further towards the energies found at the point of the Big Bang, as we approach that, we're already within trillionths of a second in terms of these energies.
		It's a surety that we would then make this kind of transition.
		Absolute surety.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		An absolute surety.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		An absolute surety because we already have gone to a kind of limit in terms of where we are, in terms of the energies of our universe.
		So it's a surety that we will then make a transition of this sort as we go towards these energies more and more.
		The energies are very high.
		They're extremely high.
		No one doubts that.
		And so we should stand back and look at it carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would this create an instantaneous explosion and in effect an opening between the zitter space and our space, our universe?
		That's correct.
		Do we know then what would happen?
		Not that for us it would matter, but I mean, would it close again immediately, just emitting this instantaneous energy, or is there some possibility it might even remain open?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this I've communicated then with Archibald Wheeler of Princeton University, and he has pointed out then that the white hole, in terms of this kind of language, the white hole then always goes towards crunch, which means it opens, and then after a period of time it then closes again.
		So that there's a kind of a control mechanism built into the space-time.
		But it's a window then into these primordial energies, and it's not worth our while looking at it.
		Again, my unpublished works have indicated that the larger events that are monopolar, if you look out there at quasars and galaxies which are exploding, they have monopolar, one single jet coming out.
		And the other objects are about five times smaller and they're bipolar.
		So they have two jets coming out.
		So the monopolar ones are then the larger ones.
		And these, I say, then are the windows into the sitter space.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Holy moly.
		All right.
		Professor, hold on.
		I'm going to come back and we'll do about 30 minutes of questions from the audience, if that's all right.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That would be fine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Great.
		Stay right there, please.
		Three times nominated for a Nobel, you're listening to a very serious man with an extremely serious message.
		What could occur in Chicago or Switzerland in about a year?
		We wouldn't know because we wouldn't be here.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		I can't say goodbye without you alone.
		Oh, baby, don't leave me away.
		Oh, I can't accept.
		I surely live your tender care.
		Don't leave me with all the blood and love for you.
		Now come down and do what you gotta do.
		You're talking before you do it in my fault.
		Now can't you see your fall is out of control?
		Come on, I need to leave.
		Only you're for loving, and I've been free.
		Don't you lead me this way, darling.
		Words of Love No love and you won't wear the part anymore.
		If you love her, then you must be her.
		Baby boy, baby, if you're a girl.
		Yeah.
		anymore Premier Radio Networks presents Art Bell somewhere in time.
		Tonight's program originally aired May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if Professor Dixon is right, we may all be going someplace we've never gone before.
		We'll get back to him and your questions in a moment.
		Punching a hole from this to another dimension within the year.
		The result, virtually a supernova of some strength here on Earth, and it really wouldn't matter to us whether it was 1A, 1, or a 2.
		We would be gone along with most everything around us.
		Anyway, we'll get back to the professor in a moment.
unidentified		sad sound
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Back now to Professor Dixon at the University of Hawaii in Hilo.
		And again, understand you're listening to a very, very serious man who's very sure of what he's saying.
		A man nominated three times for the Nobel Prize, a man who had something to do with stopping the accelerator in Texas because of exactly the same concern.
		Here he is.
		Professor, are you there?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I'm here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let's see what the public asks.
		It's not going to be easy because this is a new concept to an awful lot of people, including me.
		And just one more thing to worry about.
		East of the Rockies, you are on the air with Professor Dixon.
		Hello, where are you?
unidentified		Yes, Art.
unidentified		Is this me talking now from Memphis?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Oh, hi.
unidentified		I'm one of your biggest fans listening on WREC radio.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, ma'am.
unidentified		And, well, I remember hearing a lot about this over the years.
unidentified		I'm a little surprised that you're not giving your audience credit for being aware of this because I remember not supporting the Super Collider in Texas, not only because of the danger, but because of the incredible expense.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I remember the expense issue.
unidentified		Not the danger.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Not the danger issue, no.
unidentified		Well, I do remember months ago you had a caller call in and said something about how they needed to go back to studying the particle accelerators for, if I remember correctly, for purposes of learning how to advance in space travel.
		And I remember you, I thought, if I remember correctly, you were supportive of that.
		And I thought, God, from what all I've heard about these, you know, it could be incredibly risky and dangerous.
		And of course, I didn't realize how serious it could be now after meeting with Professor Dixon.
		But what I wanted to know is if they are aware of how dangerous this is, which obviously they are, what could be their purpose behind taking this incredible chance?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's actually an awfully good question.
		Professor, if they are aware of this, why would they be plunging ahead?
		Nobel Prizes are nice, but not if you're not around to collect them.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is, again, I have an article here which I always mail to everyone.
		It's called Quantum Tunneling Towards an Exploding Universe.
		Quantum Tunneling Towards an Exploding Universe.
		It's from the journal Nature, Theoretical Physics, April 24th, 1986.
		April 24th, 1986, the journal Nature, the most respected journal then in the area of science.
		The title then is Quantum Tunneling Towards an Exploding Universe.
		So this is part of the everyday knowledge of people in physics.
		But the people in physics then are, I think, prone then to the human qualities of denial.
		They sort of deny what may be happening, what could happen, and they want to just plunge ahead and look at their research.
		To them, as I talked with them out in front of Fermilab, it's a kind of holy quest.
		They're looking for these kinds of truths and nature, and so they're willing to take the risk.
		They may be willing to take the risk, but I don't think the average public would share in that kind of enthusiasm.
		This is why I'd like to raise this question for everyone.
		Again, it may be something I should also mention here that I've done some work in mathematics also.
		And since I can read the equations, I'm a person who's not formally trained in physics, but since I can read the equations and do that kind of work in terms of multidimensional physics, I can then understand what's going on.
		So I'm a person then who can understand the work, but I'm not actually a card-carrying physicist.
		And that's why I'm really dedicated to saving everyone from these kinds of dangers without having to lose my job.
		If I'm working at Fermi Lab or CERN, I think I would be out on the streets.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you would.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, even if you can stop what's going on at Fermi, who's going to stop the Swiss?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think the same notion is you find that with your coast-to-coast radio network, there's a large number of people who are listening to this, and they will easily communicate with people in Europe, and this will then become knowledge world round.
		And the people in Europe are very, very active, particularly the Swiss.
		No one can imagine how active the Swiss are once they become interested in something.
		So we have nothing to worry about if we simply bring this to the general knowledge of the public.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, do you wish to give out any address for people to contact you, email address or physical address or any form of contact at all?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a P.O. box.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		P.O. Box 244 Volcano, Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Volcano, Hawaii.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Volcano, Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		96785?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		96785.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, let me give that again.
		It's Professor Paul W. Dixon, D-I-X-O-N, and it's P.O. Box 244 in Volcano, Hawaii, 96785.
		All right, west of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Dixon.
unidentified		Hello.
		Hi.
		Am I on the air?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You are.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		I am in Las Vegas.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Professor Dixon, Art said that you were nominated for Nobel Prizes.
unidentified		In what field?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		In physics.
unidentified		In physics?
unidentified		You're a physicist?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		He just, if you were listening, and I know you were, he just said he was not a card-carrying physicist.
unidentified		Okay.
		Let me ask you one question to kind of introduce this whole thing to know kind of where we stand.
		What does the number 137 mean to you, Professor Dixon?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That's 137.
		Isn't that one of the ratios between the subatomic particles?
		That seems to.
unidentified		No, Professor Dixon.
		this is one of the greatest number in particle physics.
		So obviously you really don't understand what you're talking about.
		You know, let's face it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's the greatest number you said in particle physics.
unidentified		That's right.
		Now what does this mean?
		The director of the Fermi lab, by the way, license place number is 137.
		And it is one of the, you know, I won't get into the discussion of exactly what it means.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, why not, sir?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You asked him, so let us ask you, what does it mean?
unidentified		Okay, it is, well.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes?
unidentified		137 is the Thanks for the call, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have a good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		First time caller line, you're on the air with Professor Dixon.
unidentified		Hello?
		Hello.
		Hey, how are you?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fine, sir.
unidentified		Great.
		He was talking about the energy and the density in that dimension.
		And I was wondering that through the immutable laws of the universe, would it experience a transition into our phenomenon, perhaps from the transitory laws in our dimension?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I don't follow your question.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Go ahead.
unidentified		Okay, when that energy from that dimension comes into our dimension, would the way that our phenomenon is, the way that we experience it, would it be hot?
unidentified		Would it change coming through that hole into our universe because of immutable laws, things being vibration and a wave?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That's correct.
unidentified		So would it change?
		Possibly would it not be a bad thing?
		It would be more like primal energy, which where the galaxy is always moving, it would just be more energy that perhaps we'd be saturated with, like magnetic energy.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I think that's how the physicists actually conceive of the supernova then are, what are they, they call them, the supernova then are fertilizers.
		They're sort of bringing in, they're bringing in then the very heavy elements, those I think beyond iron.
		And so this is from the point of view of the constituents of life, we would have to say that our planet itself is a second or third generation entity in the sense that we have heavy elements like uranium and things beyond iron.
		And so in a general sense, we could then say the supernova are beneficial.
		I don't think want our own supernova at this very moment.
unidentified		Okay.
		I understand that.
		So is it possible that it wouldn't be bad, that we wouldn't be destroyed?
		Like, I'm not sure, I don't mean to bring in another subject, but I've read about ancient summer, and they speak of a planet called Nibiru that was self-heated self.
		And perhaps in that sense, would it just...
		Right, okay, it would be a negative effect.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So he's not saying don't do it ultimately.
		He's just saying...
		Yes.
unidentified		I got you.
unidentified		Okay, because they're doing this sort of without doing too many tests or anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Something like that.
		Where are you located, sir?
		I'm in B.C. In British Columbia, in Canada.
		All right, yes, I understand.
		Thank you very much.
		And while card line, you are on the air with Professor Dixon.
unidentified		This is Curtis in San Diego.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Curtis.
unidentified		Hey, how are you?
		Wow.
		This is also crazy.
		First of all, I was going to ask you that great experiment we're supposed to be doing tonight.
		What if any of us don't have that radio?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, then you can't listen.
unidentified		Well, can we, like, go outside and help or something?
unidentified		Like, call them down?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Call me after 1 o'clock about that tomorrow.
		In the meantime, you're through to Professor Dixon.
		Do you have a question?
unidentified		Yes, I was going to ask the people that are doing these things in Switzerland and Chicago, are they private people?
		Are they federally funded?
		Are my tax dollars paying for this study?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good question.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Again, one of my main supporters here in Hawaii has always pointed out that not only are they risking your life, but they're using your money to do so.
		And so this is one of the reasons that I think the general public should become involved.
		In Europe, in CERN, by treaty, I think 1% of the gross national product of most of the nations of Europe goes to this CERN activity.
		And so again, this is a tax money, the public tax money, which is being supported by the general public.
		So again, your point is well taken, and I would say then you should be knowledgeable, and the general public should be deemed have the ability to understand what's going on in this regard.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Paul W. Dixon.
unidentified		Hello.
		Yes, this is Jan in Port Angeles, Washington.
		And I absolutely agree.
		Writing letters is extremely important.
		And I'm going to write letters and call my congressman and write the Fermi Lab and whoever else I can think of doing.
		However, I do believe and know that there will always be life in the universe.
		Perhaps our life might not be here, but there will always be life in the universe somewhere.
		And my question, I'm getting to my question, but I'm going to go a little bit to get around it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Laurie, Troy, the other day.
unidentified		Okay, Lori Toy said we have to get spiritually right within ourselves.
		Yes, we have to write letters, and yes, praying would be a good idea, too.
		But, you know, you talk about this big boom or the vaporizing if this thing goes wrong.
		Well, in some bizarre way, that wouldn't worry me as much as seeing a slow death of our planet through ecological destruction and the death that is happening on our planet right now.
		So my question to the professor is, it would be a horrible thing if we were vaporized.
		And yes, I'm going to write letters, but the death of the planet the way it's going right now, which is worse?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would like to propose then that we form something called a penguin society.
		The penguin society then would address these problems to halt then global extinction.
		We have the recent newspapers noticed that the plants are dying out, the animals are dying out, and we possibly also might be faced with extinction, and so we should form this penguin society which would be concerned then primarily with the extinction of species, living beings like ourselves.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well then, I presume in our selfishness we would be at the top of the list.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think we should certainly be thought about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Professor Dixon in Hawaii.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Hi, Eric.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, where are you?
unidentified		Michigan.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Michigan, all right.
unidentified		Yep.
unidentified		I was wondering if you have heard of any experiments going on with particle beams in Area 51.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Or any particle beam experimentation, period.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, I don't follow your question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		His question is with regard to particle beam experimentation.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about hadrons?
		This is the heavy particles?
		Is that what you're saying?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I would presume he was, yes.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, the Fermilab then is a counter-rotating ring with protons and antiprotons.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		So that's certainly, I guess this is the American view of these things as the most active and most, should I say, essentially energetic of all possibilities, matter and antimatter coming together after many revolutions at close to the speed of light.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It seems to me, Professor, that this is for many of us a new concept and a new fright to have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Would you be interested in debating somebody from Fermi Lab?
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I have done that out in front of Fermi Lab for, let's see, a couple of years ago.
		We spent six hours across the railroad tracks in Batavia.
		I didn't want to actually enter into the Fermi Lab, and we had a wonderful time debating all of the fine scientists who came out of Fermi Lab to talk to us.
		So there was, again, I talked even to Dr. Johnson, the man who had constructed the ring.
		He had some very good arguments.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And while he bought a lot of your arguments, apparently he didn't buy them well enough, or they didn't buy them well enough, because they are moving ahead pell-mell.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, again, I would say that they did buy them.
		There was, again, according to the scientific literature, they held back in terms of the possibilities.
		When I wrote to them many years ago, about 10 years ago, they had 1.8 trillion electron volts, and from that point onward, they did not increase it to the possibility of 2 trillion electron volts, which they could have.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Which they could have and did not because of their earth.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		So they were then criticized in the scientific literature for holding it back by 10%.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		So I do feel, though, that, again, following your point, there's a kind of pressure, international pressure, to go ahead, and it's maybe not possible to hold it back unless you have the public questioning this and looking at it very, very carefully.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, when I said debate, I was considering getting somebody from Fermi Labs in view of the fact that they seem to be pressing ahead and getting them on there at some point with you.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to debate this with Dr. John Peoples.
		I have a great deal of respect for him.
		He's now the director of Fermi Labs.
		So he would be my choice.
		He's a very serious man, and I think he understands the kinds of dimensional physics that I'm talking about.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I will indeed make an attempt to get Dr. John Peoples, get hold of him, and see if he would be interested in doing exactly that.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		That would be very, very good for everyone.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, Professor.
		In the meantime, folks, if you would like to write to Dr. Dixon, it is P.O. Box 244 in Volcano, Hawaii, zip code 96785.
		And that, of course, is on the big island.
		Well, Professor, thanks for scaring us to death.
		And thanks for the honest and real information.
		And I will proceed to try and get hold of Dr. Peoples.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'd like to again offer my very great thanks for all mankind for putting this on the air.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		I'd like to form the Penguin Society, the Penguin Society, which would be a place for everyone to rally and join in to prevent extinction of man and other living creatures.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm all for that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor, thank you.
prof paul dixon ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very, very much.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And good night.
		All right, there you have it.
		One more thing to worry about, instant extinction.
		Professor Paul W. Dixon, I'm Ark Bell.
		This is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May
		20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		You're listening to Art Bell somewhere in Time, tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, everybody, prepare to participate in the great experiments, part number four.
		At least part number four.
		Boy, do I have a good idea.
		And I'm going to foist it off on you in a moment here.
		So stand by.
		It involves contact.
unidentified		It involves contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Check this out.
		Mr. Bell, I work second shift in North Las Vegas, less than 100 yards from the runway at Nellis Air Force Base at about 12 a.m. this morning.
		That would have been about an hour and 11 minutes ago.
		Six fighter jets were scrambled and headed due north, probably towards Area 51.
		Though daily we are certainly treated to spectacular aerial maneuvers, I have never, ever, witnessed a nighttime sortie at this late time of the day.
		Could your experiment to contact ETs via short wave be working?
		Have the jets been scrambled to intercept something responding to your attempts at contact?
		Can you inquire to someone who might know?
		Thanks, Kim.
		Well, no, Kim, I wouldn't know who to call, and certainly they wouldn't tell me if I found that person.
		However, there are two big items that I want to get to you tonight, right now.
		Beginning now, actually beginning three hours ago.
		I'm asking everybody, from the Hawaiian Islands on through this great nation to the Caribbean, to Nova Scotia, to the very farthest reaches of my signal, to tune to one special shortwave frequency.
		We have tried experiments, I might add, with some success in the past, using telepathy.
		It is said, of course, that the others, the visitors, whatever you want to call them, use telepathy to communicate.
		So I thought, why not try our own little SETI experiment?
		And if there's anybody nearby, let's set up a frequency.
		And I found one.
		It is 6.890 MHz.
		I repeat, 6890, 6.890 MHz.
		And what I would like is everybody out there with a Sanjine or any kind of shortwave receiver to get as much antenna as you can muster and monitor, if not record, 6.890.
		Now, I'm not setting any kind of a mode of transmission, sideband, AM, FM, because who knows how it would come or what it'll sound like.
		But right now, if you've got a shortwave radio, go to it and begin listening to 6890.
		Even if you are capable, do not transmit on that frequency, obviously.
		But let's see if we can establish some kind of contact.
		We will continue with this experiment over the next 48 hours.
		But over the next couple of hours of the program this morning, and I'm going to listen myself during breaks, I want you to monitor 6890 very carefully.
		See what you hear.
		Record what you can.
		And we'll see what shows up.
		6890, The Great Experiment, Part 4.
		Item 2.
		I received, I think, the best photograph of a UFO that I have seen short of the Meyer photographs, and I think this one is real.
		Now, that is not to suggest that the Meyer photograph is not, but I have in my possession from Ron Sprouse in Hawaii a photograph taken with a 35 millimeter camera.
		I've got print here.
		It's a big print.
		I can hold it up for the camera, although it will not do justice to it.
		You know, my studio camera certainly is not going to do justice to it.
		However, it is an absolutely astounding photograph.
		Now, it was taken with a Canon 35 millimeter camera, 100 ASA film, at 125th second at F8 or 11.
		It was taken at a memorial park looking toward the Punch Bowl National Veterans Cemetery of the Pacific.
		And Ron says, P.S., I was taking photos of cemetery locations that day and did not, underlined, notice the object in question until later, after developing and printing.
		Upon showing the picture around, a co-worker said he has seen similar objects moving about strangely on a ridge above Hawaii Kai in the afternoon, the last Sunday in March of 98.
		Aircraft are not allowed over a National Veterans Cemetery.
		Now, I scanned the photograph personally, and I did two scans.
		One scan of the full photograph, as I am holding in my hand right now, and the other scan a gigantic close-up of this object in the sky.
		And I think there is no reasonable explanation for this object.
		It is, believe me, and I get, I'm going to say I get 100 UFO photographs a month.
		Most of them I discard as either frauds, fakes, or indiscernible.
		This is something else.
		I'm telling you right now, this is something else.
		And with the reference objects in the photograph, and you see the cemetery, then you see what would appear to be some sort of monument, and then you see a large ridge behind, a great big ridge.
		It's got to be quite a ways away, tree-covered in Hawaii.
		And just above this, you see what appears to be a saucer.
		I don't know what else to call it.
		It's a saucer.
		And I would like your opinion.
		As I said, I see a lot of photographs of this kind, but I've not seen one this good.
		Go take a look.
		It's on my website right now.
		I'm trying to get hold of Ron to give us the story behind this, but I think he's pretty well articulated in his facts.
		I've got his phone number, and I've tried several times.
		He may be out of town.
		Anyway, bottom line, this, I think, is the real thing.
	You take a look, go ahead and pull it apart the way you do with all photographs and tell me what you think.
	West of the Rockies, you're on there.
unidentified		Yeah, hi, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I had a couple of questions.
unidentified		I wish I caught Professor Dixon a few minutes ago, but I had a few questions because he was talking about energies that the Fermilab was using as 20 trillion electron volts, right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think that's what he said, yes.
unidentified		Well, the only problem with that is a 100-watt light bulb will burn 312 million times that energy in one second.
unidentified		So how could that possibly produce any kind of supernova?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, I'm not obviously the guy to answer that.
unidentified		Okay, I mean, I just bring that up.
unidentified		And the other thing, too, is that our sun itself doesn't have enough mass to have the capability of producing a supernova, which would mean that there's no possible way that we could produce one on Earth just because there's just not enough energy to go around.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay, well, he'd be the one, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry.
unidentified		Okay, just bring it up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, take care.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yes, good morning.
		I'm getting you in loud and clear on WGY.
		I'm vacationing in New York.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, good for you.
unidentified		Thank you.
		Usually I live in Brevard County, Florida, and I wish we could get you in there.
		I got the radio up to my ear, and you fade in and out, so I can't get you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I see.
unidentified		Now, Professor Dixon, very interesting.
		I'm looking forward to his Penguin Society.
		But I'm calling because I'd like to save the earth.
		We're having a big problem down there with the sewerage running into the Indian River Lagoon.
		I'm aware.
		And we're fighting it terribly.
		I don't understand why we have to fight so hard for something that is so wrong.
		But anyhow, on May 3rd.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, because you're fighting economic interests.
unidentified		True.
		But we're also fighting for survival, which to me is a little more important.
		Anyhow, on May 3rd, which was a Sunday, I was listening to a repeat that you had on.
		It faded in and out, and I could not get the name of the woman that is so involved in what we're fighting for.
		Is there some way I can...
		Is there some way I can get that information so we can get this packet to her of all the things that we know is happening there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you referring to possibly Linda Moulton Howe?
unidentified		I don't know.
unidentified		The name faded out every time I try to listen to her.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, well then it's going to be impossible for me to you can call, I can give you a number, and you can order that program.
unidentified		Let me give you the name again, Linda Hu?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Linda Howe?
unidentified		I looked up on your website and it was not on there because it was a repeat, so it wasn't on there.
unidentified		I tried finding it through that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you can get to my website, then you can go to the audio archives and listen to it.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Linda Howe?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		I'll give that a try, and thanks a lot.
unidentified		I wish somebody could help us down there because it's really terrible what's going on under the guise of money.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Believe me, I know.
		It's not under the guise of money.
		It is because of money.
		Money makes the world go round and may stop it.
		One way to put it.
		Well, for the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Good morning.
unidentified		Yeah, good morning, Eric.
unidentified		This is Dennis calling from Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir?
unidentified		Yeah, I think the lady was talking about Linda Moulton Howe.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That was my guess.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Mike, have you seen the June edition of the June issue of Popular Science?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I have not.
unidentified		Okay, there's an article in here called The Day the Earth Fell Over.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Fell Over?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		I can read you about five sentences that would pretty much cover the whole gist of the article.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you, you ever see a show called South Park?
unidentified		No, I haven't.
unidentified		I'm dying to see it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's on the comedy channel.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's very irrelevant.
unidentified		I've heard of it, and I've heard you speak of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Irreverent.
		It's very irreverent.
		And I'm wearing a t-shirt right now.
		It says the many deaths of Kenny.
		And they always kill Kenny in this show.
		And I'm beginning to feel like Kenny.
		The many deaths of us.
		Anyway, go ahead.
unidentified		Yeah, okay.
		Like I say, about five sentences out of this would explain it.
		And then I have a quick comment to make.
		It says, some 530 million years ago, Earth's land masses were clustered near the South Pole, forming a supercontinent called Gondwana Land.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Called what?
unidentified		Gondwana Land.
		Within a relatively short period lasting about 15 million years, Earth's crust rotated nearly 90 degrees.
		Along the way, the stressed supercontinent broke apart and began forming today's familiar map.
		When polar wander suddenly accelerates, says Kirschvink, the scientist, these are two scientists from California Institute of Technology who hypothesize this.
		When polar wander suddenly accelerates, says Kirschvink, it can cause climate changes that drive biological evolution at a frantic pace.
		He says, if we're right, having a convecting mantle may make a planet go into these funny states every now and then and have an important impact on evolution.
		My comment is that this was 530 million years ago.
		That's roughly about the same time that Mars had that gigantic flood.
		And I don't know that there's any connection there.
		I mean, this article in itself I find interesting.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, there might be, who knows?
unidentified		Yeah, but anyway, just thought you might be interested in it's a new hypothesis, but you know, one would have to read the article to get all of the pertinent information out of it.
unidentified		But I thought, you know, you or your listeners may be interested in what's in there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll take a look.
		Thank you very, very much.
		And again, folks, we are monitoring 6890 megahertz, 6.890 megahertz for any transmission.
		You never know.
		You just never know.
		And we're going to do this over a 48-hour period.
		No transmitting, just listening, okay?
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello?
		Going once, going twice, gone.
		Wildcard line, you're on the air.
unidentified		Oh, hi, Art.
		Hello.
		This is Carol, and I'm in Iowa.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Carol.
unidentified		You might want to ask your listeners to focus their attention and meditate and ask the Galactic Federation or whoever for contact.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we can do that as well, of course.
unidentified		I think, you know, it would increase the power.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's worth a try.
unidentified		Ask them to do it.
unidentified		I bet they will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, we'll be monitoring over 48 hours now, so we'll see.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
unidentified		Thanks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		Lots of people out there with shortwave radios who can hear that frequency.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello, R. Bill.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		My name is Brett.
unidentified		I am in Atlanta, Georgia.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		I had heard your previous guest.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Professor Dixon, yes.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
		I went and did some research after the caller that had asked the significance of the number 137.
		Right.
		There is a bit of fun.
		I'm sorry, I'm a little bit nervous, of course.
		In perturbation theory, you have zero, first, second, third-order processes.
		First order processes under the Feynman process.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're above me.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
		Anyway, anyway.
		The root is a prime number, 137.
		Through zero-order processes, it's 1, 137 to the first power.
		And then it's 1, 132nd, or 1, 137 to the second power, and so on and so on and so on.
		Okay.
		That was all too late.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		If I knew what it meant, I'd be really appreciative.
unidentified		But I. Well, thank you, sir.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thank you for the call.
		And take care.
		Was for the Rockies?
		You're on the air.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Artiller.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's me.
unidentified		Hey, how you doing?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		Open lines, isn't it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It is.
unidentified		Oh, good.
unidentified		I'm surprised I got through.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, now you're through.
unidentified		Oh, cool.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Deproductive.
unidentified		This is a great show.
		I've been listening all night.
		Listen since about, what, New Year's now?
		And, you know, I find interesting all the stuff you talk about about holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		In the ground.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		Those deep holes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		You know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got another one now, two miles deep.
unidentified		You know, my aunt's backyard, there's this little teeny hole, not very big.
unidentified		She poured it, she ran irrigation water in there, and it never filled up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It never, a little hole.
unidentified		Yeah, so about maybe six inches in diameter, so.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How long did she try to fill it with water?
unidentified		Oh, she let it run all night, and it never filled up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're kidding.
unidentified		I don't know where it went.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		God knows what could crawl out of that thing in the middle of the night, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, because where I live, oh, by the way, my name is Rand.
unidentified		I'm in St. George, Utah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
unidentified		KDX-UAM?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, oh, a monster of a signal.
		Boy, do they have a big signal.
		I can hear them here.
		Actually, they're one of the stronger stations that I can hear here.
unidentified		Uh-huh.
unidentified		Anyway, anyway, like I was saying, she run irrigation water in there all night and nothing.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Cool.
		I don't know.
		I'm not exactly sure what the fascination with holes is.
		Can you hold on through the break?
unidentified		Sure.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Come on now, folks.
		The big experiment.
		Are you tuned in?
		6.890, 6890 megahertz.
		I want people listening from Hawaii to the Caribbean.
		Monitor, if you're able, tape on that frequency.
		Let's see what we get.
		If they're out there and they want contact, here's their chance.
		I'm Art Bell, and this is Coast to Coast AM.
unidentified		You're listening to Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
		Tonight featuring a replay of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
		Music by Ben Thede
		Thank you.
		You call me craving, you call me right now.
		You're putting it down to me.
		You know you care.
		Dig it, dig it in your hands.
		Ooh, you can dance, you can dance.
		Another thing that's on my mind.
		Ooh, see that girl.
		Watch that scene.
		Begin to dance and scream.
		Friday night and the nights alone.
		Looking out for a place to go.
		Where they play the right music.
		Getting in the spring.
		You come to live the first thing.
		And you're going to be the first thing.
		And you're going to be the first thing.
		Anybody could be that guy and be.
		You're listening to Arc Bell somewhere in time on Premier Radio Networks.
		Tonight, an encore presentation of Coast to Coast AM from May 20th, 1998.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Our own little SETI experiment going on for the next 48 hours, monitoring 6890 megahertz.
		That six dot or 6.890.
		6 decimal 890 in the shortwave band.
		And it is a clear frequency.
		If anybody hears anything, you might want to let me know.
		I just got one message from Alaska that they're hearing some sort of weird count on there.
		All right.
		It says here you might want to clarify to your listeners, it's 6890 kilohertz or 6.890 megahertz, as you will.
		That's a gym in New Albany, Indiana.
		It is a listen-only frequency.
		It is a clear frequency, nearly as I can tell.
		And so if there is anything to be heard, we're going to hear it.
		Here's somebody else.
		Art, I'm tuned to frequency 6.890.0 and I'm hearing a voice on upper sideband saying we hear you but my signal is weak can you check with other callers this was at 208 a.m. in Scranton Pennsylvania all right west of the Rockies we were talking about a hole a little bitty hole that you have in the ground is that right sir yeah and you've been pouring water in it for
		Literally hours and hours and hours or all day?
unidentified		Well, like I said, this was in my aunt's backyard.
		It's been a while since she did that.
		She found, when she first moved up here, she was out in the back and found this little hole.
		And so she had irrigation water that she'd run in there every week.
		And they did a little trench right to it, and they let the water run in there.
		Let it run, let it run, let it run.
		Never filled it up.
		Let it run for, I think it was all night or something.
		It's been running for quite a while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You need to perform a hole experiment 1A, which is getting a little monofilament line and a little tiny weight, and begin lowering it into the hole.
unidentified		Okay.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And report back to us and tell us how deep it is.
unidentified		Okay.
unidentified		Yeah, I don't know if it's really deep or what.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's how you find out.
unidentified		Where I live here in southern Utah, it's got a lot of volcanic rock around there.
		So I don't know whether it just kind of makes it as a maze of volcanic rock or whether it goes straight down.
		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I don't either.
		That's how we're going to find out, though.
		So if you would, do that experiment and report back.
unidentified		Okay.
		All right.
		Just to let you know, too, your commercial about Father's Day?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		It's the 21st of June, up to 14th.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		14th flag day.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's still a sale on Geiger counters, but I appreciate the correction.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		Geiger counters.
		What a neat sale to have Geiger counters.
		Can you imagine?
		Well, I've got one, and it's a good Geiger counter, too.
		If you want one, finally you can get one.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		Hi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Turn your radio off, please.
unidentified		I just did.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you?
unidentified		Cleveland, Mississippi.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I keep hearing you talk about Billy Meyer.
		Yes.
		Bill Meyer.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		At the university I went to, we had a class in Cedars.
		I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
		At Delta State.
		And what?
		Well, the teacher sort of disproved that Billy Meyer is telling the truth about anything.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How did he do that?
unidentified		Well, I mean, he said they found a spaceship model in his barn.
		And at first he was an advocate for Billy Meyer, you know, and then he sort of changed his mind and everything.
		But to hear about him having pictures of dinosaurs and things like that, I mean, I just don't see how anyone could believe that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'm not so sure about Billy Meyer myself.
		I mean, I've got doubts myself about the Meyer case.
		But you should see, I'm telling you, this new photograph I've got up.
		It's the best.
		Do you have a computer?
unidentified		Well, yeah, I do.
		But I'm at work.
		I work on a lab at night.
		I listen to you every night.
		But, you know, we really did a lot of research, you know, on Billy Meyer and stuff and everything.
		We saw a film, I saw a projector-type film of supposedly the beam ships.
		And, you know, when the footage first starts, you know, it's got a clock indicator down at the bottom right.
		And it's superimposed.
		It doesn't even go with the film.
		And we watched it, you know, and at first it looks good.
		The saucer's kind of going through a tree.
		It's going around the tree.
		And then it sort of looks like you're holding on a string and it's just going around.
		And then he shows another one where the supposed beam ship's in a field.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		And he says, and he's narrating, and he says, then you will see the beam ship take off at light speed and then return.
		And it looks like something off Bewitched.
		The film jumps.
		But my major is in chemistry and took a lot of physics.
		And I know that if anything, with any mass, takes off in an environment like an atmosphere, it's going to burn up instantly.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I have a number of problems with the Meyer photographs.
		Thank you.
		For example, one of them shows a craft which appears to be planted in a tree somewhere.
		And you just can't buy that.
		I don't buy it anyway.
		Other of the Meyer photographs seem more inexplicable.
		And I don't know how it's done or was done if it is not true.
		The Meyer case is one of the more famous, one of the more difficult, frankly, to explain.
		But if you'll look at the photograph I've got on the website right now, I think you will find this in some ways more impressive.
		I repeat, more impressive than the Meyer photographs.
		Not that it's as close as the Meyer photographs.
		But the reference in the photograph is impeccable.
		The reference to the buildings, the distance, the trees, the ridge, all the rest of it.
		This object is the best I've seen in a very long time.
		This is the best UFO photograph I've seen in a long time.
		Take a look.
		Let me know.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Rick.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Rick.
unidentified		I'm Los Angeles.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, Art.
unidentified		We had some people calling earlier this evening about the number 137.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		You may recall just recently you had Michio Kaku on.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		In fact, that was the first I'd heard of it.
unidentified		He had brought that up.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I seem to recall some reference to it.
unidentified		As I recall correctly, I'm not a physicist at all, but as I recall correctly from what he was saying, He used the term drop-off, or breakoff point.
		I don't know what the numbers refer to, but he said that the number 137 was sort of a break-off point um that occurred apparently right after the Big Bang.
		Uh the j the very seconds or moments following a big bang.
		And at some point um the number seemed to, because of the breakoff point at that number, couldn't be less, couldn't be more.
		That'd be precisely 137.
		Right.
		That that was a point which things began to stabilize.
		That was his explanation.
		Things began to stabilize the universe.
		And if it wasn't for it breaking off at that point, that it never would have stabilized the universe that we know now.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I still don't understand.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		But that's okay.
unidentified		I know, I don't either, and I would like to get more information on that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, next time I have Dr. Kaku on, I will ask.
		First time caller line, you're on air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hello.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		I had a question.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		Is this open line?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a very staticky phone.
unidentified		Okay.
		Wait a minute.
		Does that fix it?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yes.
unidentified		Okay.
		My question was this.
		The other night we were listening and we heard you talking about ghosts.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
unidentified		I was just wondering what causes and how do you know if you actually have...
		like if there was someone in your past that you had animosity towards or didn't like you and they died suddenly in your home and then you have nightmares about them.
		How do you know if you're being haunted?
		Do you know what I'm asking?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm not sure that I would conclude that I was being haunted on the basis of nightmares frankly.
unidentified		Or even if you don't know if it's nightmares or if you think you're asleep but you're not really asleep.
unidentified		How do you know?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what I'm asking?
		I think that if you're not sure then the answer is no.
		If you're really sure that something is going on then you're being haunted.
		that's a flippant answer but it's the best I can do well in other words you wouldn't be wondering about it would a would a ghost hang on because they're pissed off at you um if they were you'd probably get a flying frying pan in the head or something of that sort anything short of that i wouldn't worry about it okay all right good luck now listen this monitoring on 6.890
		megahertz is going to go on for the next 48 hours now a little less and so tomorrow night we will devote at least one line to results and tapes and people who have uh either heard or not heard we may get nothing something on 6.890 during the day during the night we're going to try and monitor 24 hours a day on the international line you're on the air hi art this
unidentified		This is Danae calling from Cairo, Egypt.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh my gosh, all the way from Cairo.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		How are you?
unidentified		I'm doing great and I just wanted to say hello to you from here and my friends on the Art Bell chat channel on the internet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you doing in Cairo?
unidentified		I'm on vacation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You're on vacation.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Have you been to Giza yet?
unidentified		Yes, I have and they're building a walkway in front of the Sphinx right now for an opera that they're going to be having.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I understand the Great Pyramid is now closed.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Were you able to get in?
unidentified		I went out with some friends and we did not attempt to go into any of the pyramids.
unidentified		We just went out and had lunch there at the Sphinx house.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		Alright.
		What is the atmosphere like in Egypt?
		I understand there's a lot of worry about terrorism so they've got a lot of guards everywhere.
		Is that what you're seeing?
unidentified		Well, there is security at the large hotels and out at the pyramids but most of the Egyptian people have been very friendly to them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		to me and i would give advice to anyone who wants to come here to come i'm getting uh everybody's telling me welcome well that's what i'm hearing from everybody that everybody is being indeed uh very friendly what time is it there now uh right now it's five minutes till twelve noon we really are upside down yes well i'm sure glad you made it through and uh you have friends on the internet huh uh.
unidentified		Yes, I do.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, what are some of their names?
unidentified		Zombie, Monique, let's see, Nimrod, and there's a couple others, too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So hello from Cairo, Egypt, huh?
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Thanks a lot, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You have a good vacation.
unidentified		I will.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
		That's my first call from Cairo, actually, other than the one I made to my own show.
		West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
unidentified		Hi.
unidentified		Hey, Art.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
unidentified		This is Dave in Phoenix.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hi, Dave.
unidentified		I got a question on the Sidonia 3 pitchers.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
unidentified		On the top portion there, how come nobody's noticed the triangles in there?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I think they have.
unidentified		I haven't heard anything about it.
		That's why I was curious.
		Uh-huh.
		Saw nothing on your website or Hoagland's rep website.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they have noticed them.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hoagland certainly has actually drawn some of them, and I think he's noticed them.
unidentified		That's in the top portion, not the bottom portion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's the top portion he was talking about.
unidentified		All four of them?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		What are you seeing?
unidentified		I see four triangles up there, right at the top portion of it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Four triangles, huh?
unidentified		Yeah, if you start on the Sidonia 3 and you come down, there's a crater right at the right side there.
		The largest triangle meets right there at the crater.
		And on the left side of that triangle, there's three other triangles inside there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm going to have Richard on in the next couple of days, because...
		because he wants he wants to comment on what's going on in mexico Uh, he thinks that it has something to do with the physics that he's been talking about for so long.
		All this heat underground and volcanism in Mexico.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Uh, so I will ask him, how's that?
unidentified		I appreciate that.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, you take care.
unidentified		You too.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Bye.
		Uh, first time caller line, you're on the air.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Art Bill.
		Yes.
		Yes, sir.
		You had a guest on last night, General A. Yes.
		Okay.
		There was a situation that went on back in 1980 that you might be interested in that relates to this story having to do with Vicki Lantrum and Betty Cash, I believe.
		It had to do with the incident where they were with their grandson, and they saw a UFO, like a diamond shape in trouble.
		And it looked like it was having trouble staying aloft.
		And then they noticed like a lot of heat and what have you.
		It must have been like about 200 yards from them.
		But they also noticed that there was like 20 military helicopters that came out and encircled this thing.
		They were there for like, I guess, 15, 20 minutes.
		And then finally they kind of escorted this thing off and they all just, you know, went off to the horizon.
		But it left like burn marks on the roadway.
		They developed, I guess, symptoms like they start to lose their hair, diarrhea, things like that.
		It's a ballistic case, I think it's called the Landrum case incident in 1980.
		It's right around South Texas in Houston.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Weird.
unidentified		And it pretty well correlates what he was talking about last night.
unidentified		It was something they believed it had to do with either extraterrestrial vehicle or testing of nuclear propulsion.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, I appreciate the collaboration.
		I believed the general last night, not based exactly on what he said on the program, because how are you going to tell about somebody on a voice changer, right?
		But because Dr. Lear has known him for 30 years, because so many people vouch for him, that he is exactly who he says he is, my guess was that the man is a reserve officer.
		I'm just guessing, folks.
		I know that through no knowledge passed on to me by anybody.
		But I would guess he is a reserve officer and may have come back with ID acting in an official capacity.
		People kind of picked apart the fact that he didn't have ID with him.
		If he was a reserve officer, that could have been the case.
		West of the Rockies, you're on there.
		Hi.
unidentified		Hi, Artfeld.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Hello.
unidentified		Dr. Singh here.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, Dr. Singh.
unidentified		There are two things I wanted to talk to you about.
		Okay.
		Space Island.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Gene Myers.
unidentified		Yes.
		I'm getting involved with it.
		And you're going to be promoting it as a science project and a multiplayer internet game kind of scenario to promote the idea worldwide.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Good.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It needs promotion.
unidentified		And we would need your assistance in two areas.
		One, we like to sponsor your show so that you can become a daily spokesman for it.
		And two, we would be having a Space Island Projects Conference in November.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		In Cal Poly, Pomona.
		It's a college.
		The college is willing to support it and do the conference during Veterans Day.
		More details will be put on the Space Island webpage in the next couple of weeks.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alright, well I'll look forward to a communication from you then, a fax or some kind of communication about what it is we can do, because I'm solidly behind that idea, as you know.
		Alright, folks, between now and tomorrow when I go on the air, I'm going to be expecting all of you who have a shortwave radio to use the best antenna you can and to very carefully, both day and night, monitor 6.890 megahertz, 6890, below the 40-meter band, somewhat below the 40-meter band.
		And we're going to see if we can actually, when you think about it, I'm transmitting with literally millions of watts.
		And if there is anybody or anything within the sound of my voice, then they might transmit back on that frequency.
		So I'm asking all of you, all of you, no matter where you are, if you have access to a digital shortwave radio, you're going to need that to know where you are.
		Listen to 6.890, and we'll get together tomorrow night and see what you've heard.
		I'm Art Bell.
		This has been Coast to Coast AM.

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