April 28, 1998 - Art Bell
02:02:37
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unidentified
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From the Kingdom of Nye, this is Coast to Coast AM with RL. | |
| First-time drawers may reach Art at area code 702-727-1222. | ||
| 702-727-1222. | ||
| Now, here again is Art. | ||
| Now, here again, I appear to be. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| Wherever you are, it is a great day. | ||
| And my dash is just fine. | ||
| Somebody called me in the first hour and said, how's your dash, Art? | ||
| I said, my dash? | ||
| She said, yeah, you know, when you go to a graveyard and you look on a tombstone, it says, born in so-and-so and died in so-and-so. | ||
| And in the middle, there's a dash. | ||
| He said, that's your life. | ||
| How's your dash? | ||
| I said, fine. | ||
| So we will dash forward with Barbara Marks Hubbard in a moment. | ||
| She wrote a book called The Revelation, The Hunger of Eve, The Evolutionary Journey and Conscious Evolution, Awakening the Power of Our Social Potential. | ||
| I'm not exactly sure what all that means, but I think basically she is bullish on America and the world and the human race. | ||
| And it'll be interesting because she wrote a book basically based on current trends, projecting a positive future, which is more or less opposite of what I wrote, The Quickening, which based on future, or rather current trends, draws a probable dim outlook for the future. | ||
| She is a futurist, so we'll talk with her in a moment. | ||
| I do have an announcement I would like to make. | ||
| And it is that the surveys are beginning to come in. | ||
| The radio surveys, you know, they survey radio like they do television. | ||
| And guess what? | ||
| We are once again number one in Los Angeles. | ||
| I'll say more about that next hour when we're on in L.A. But the big ever-so-pleasant personal surprise for me is that we had an opportunity, I don't know, about four or five months ago to go on WABC in New York and sort of fill in a spot for about six weeks, I think it was going to be. | ||
| And guess what, folks? | ||
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Surveys in, and number one, we're number one in New York City. | |
| Now, this has serious meaning for me because I grew up with WABC, and I don't talk a lot about it because it makes me nervous. | ||
| When I sit and I think of Manhattan and all the boroughs, and I, you know, I've been there. | ||
| I know the area. | ||
| I grew up in the Northeast, and to be on the radio station that you grew up with is a serious psychological impediment. | ||
| If I think about New York City, it makes me nervous, and I can't do the show right, so I try not to think about it. | ||
| But I mean, today the survey came in. | ||
| You were number one. | ||
| Number one. | ||
| Clear out. | ||
| Number one. | ||
| So, to all the people listening to WABC who made happen, and that's a lot of people. | ||
| You know, WABC particularly at night, my God, you can hear them in the northern hemisphere, sort of. | ||
| Thank you all in New York. | ||
| Thank you so very much. | ||
| It's a great feeling. | ||
| The big apple is the biggin', you know, and as they say, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. | ||
| And I guess we've made it there. | ||
| So thank you, everybody in New York. | ||
| Thank you so very much. | ||
| And as a meaningless addendum, Rich Wood, have a better day tomorrow. | ||
| Anyway, on to Barbara Martz Hubbard here shortly. | ||
| All right, now to Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Barbara, welcome to the program. | ||
| Thank you, Art, and congratulations on your being number one. | ||
| In New York, oh, thank you. | ||
| It's one of those things, Barbara. | ||
| You know, I guess it's the top of the heap for radio. | ||
| It's the number one radio market. | ||
| Plus, I grew up with WABC, so it's kind of a... | ||
| I was born in New York City. | ||
| Well, then you know. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You remember the old days of WABC? | ||
| I do. | ||
| Do you? | ||
| Cousin Brucey? | ||
| 77 WABC. | ||
| Remember that? | ||
| Well, I'm not sure about that one. | ||
| That's ingrained in my brain. | ||
| Anyway, welcome to the program. | ||
| You are, I asked you this before the program, and I'll ask you again, a futurist. | ||
| Is it fair to categorize you as a futurist? | ||
| Yes, yes. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| You know, well, for me, futurism is just an awareness that what we do now affects the future. | ||
| So you want to start thinking what kind of future do you want and what acts do you need now to get there. | ||
| So it's a basic human consciousness, really. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Makes sense to me. | ||
| So far, we're right on track. | ||
| Now, you are basically optimistic. | ||
| Is that correct? | ||
| You know, I call myself a potentialist, not an optimist. | ||
| An optimist thinks things will inevitably get better. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| A pessimist thinks they're going to get worse. | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| A potentialist says, well, there's a possibility in here that if we see it, we have a better chance than if we don't see it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| I'm more looking for potentials than I am an optimist. | ||
| So potentially it could get better or worse. | ||
| That's correct. | ||
| But I'm looking for the positive potentials in the system. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What current trends do you see that gives you reason for potential optimism? | ||
| Well, there are a couple of them. | ||
| One is the awakening of women. | ||
| I mean, I'd like to give you a perspective on it. | ||
| I think this whole global crisis, the whole planetary crisis, could be seen as the crisis of birth of the next stage of human evolution. | ||
| If you think of it, the planet Earth is one living system and it's natural that we've kind of hit a population limit. | ||
| We've hit a pollution. | ||
| We've hit limits to growth. | ||
| And up until about 30 or 40 years ago, we did not know we had these limits. | ||
| What would you consider to be the next step in human evolution? | ||
| I would consider the next step in human evolution to be an evolution of consciousness and capacity, which would lead to the possibility of us becoming an actual universal species. | ||
| Does this mean a recognition that resources are finite? | ||
| No, resources are not finite. | ||
| They're finite on this planetary system, but it's very interesting to note that we landed on the moon in 1969. | ||
| It has been rather depressing to note we haven't been back. | ||
| And the next year, 1970, we had the first Earth Day. | ||
| So the environmental movement woke up when we saw ourselves from space, and we recognized we're a limited, finite system, and we have to conserve here. | ||
| We have to stop growth here. | ||
| But at the very same time, although we haven't been back to the moon, nonetheless, we have now a space program, and we realize there are materials of a thousand Earths in the moon and the asteroid. | ||
| There's unlimited solar energy. | ||
| Does it to you make sense, Barbara, that we went to the moon so long ago and have not been back, have not put a man back even on the moon, much less to Mars? | ||
| Do you wonder about that? | ||
| I do, and I'm very, very saddened by it because I feel that we are naturally both an Earth species and a space species, and that that step into space there in the Apollo program was the physical evolution of our species. | ||
| And I mean physically, we have the capability of leaving this biosphere, of developing habitats in space, of getting energy from space. | ||
| And what that would mean is we have an Earth space or open system environment, which is ultimately not limited at all. | ||
| And I think by, you know, if we don't blow ourselves up or have a total collapse of our environment, that by the third millennium we'll be a solar system species. | ||
| And by the fourth millennium, we'll be a galactic species. | ||
| Well, there are a lot of theoretical physicists who agree with you. | ||
| One of them would be Michio Kaku, who I frequently interview from New York City University. | ||
| And he says that you are exactly right. | ||
| Only one little problem. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He would consider us now a Type Zero civilization. | ||
| Right. | ||
| One that burns fossil fuels and is forced to use the finite resources of Earth. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he says there are gazillions of Type Zero civilizations. | ||
| And the chances or the odds of any civilization making it intact from Type Zero to Type 1, which you described, are very slim indeed. | ||
| And most Type Zero civilizations just sort of wink out. | ||
| Well, he may be right. | ||
| Have you ever read a book by Eric Chasin? | ||
| It's called The Life Era. | ||
| No, I have not. | ||
| It's a very good book. | ||
| It's called Cosmic Selection and Conscious Evolution. | ||
| And what he says is that when a species gets technologically competent, that is a very dangerous period because we're learning how matter works. | ||
| The atom, the brain. | ||
| But we're still in a self-centered or infantile state of consciousness. | ||
| Now, he says that some scientists believe that the reason we've never actually encountered another high technology species is because none of them made it through this dangerous period. | ||
| Because when you have your high technology, you can destroy yourself. | ||
| But at the same time, if you could evolve in consciousness and use that technology constructively, you could restore the earth and you could free people from hunger and disease and you could explore the universe. | ||
| So the potential is that we could do that. | ||
| Whether or not we will do that depends on countless different acts. | ||
| In other words, we have the opportunity to either spread our wings and leave Earth and become a type 1, or the other potential is to destroy ourselves either environmentally or with Element 92 or whatever. | ||
| Many, many ways. | ||
| And the reason I was so excited about the space program, you know, I was a housewife in Lakeville with five children. | ||
| I was not a technologist, an astronaut, a scientist. | ||
| I was a mother. | ||
| And I am a mother. | ||
| And when I saw that, it was when John Glenn went into space, that first thing when he went up there, I had a very deep intuition. | ||
| And the feeling I had was freedom, birth, future, openness for the human race. | ||
| And as the space program developed, I became very interested. | ||
| I founded a committee for the future. | ||
| I actually tried to have a citizen-sponsored space mission where we would have a Saturn V rocket that would go to the moon and bring back Moonrock. | ||
| And a whole huge program developed, which we didn't get to do because NASA didn't let us do it. | ||
| But I felt that this was opening up an unlimited horizon for the human species, and that we would be able to restore the Earth. | ||
| We would be able to free people from hunger and poverty. | ||
| And that we would have an infinite frontier for our children. | ||
| And yet, Barbara, again I say, we have not been back. | ||
| As a matter of fact, there are more signs than not that save the space station, perhaps, space station freedom, if we do put it up. | ||
| We have withdrawn manned efforts in space and have no plans at all. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Well, you see, instead of doing Star Worlds, we did focus on Star Wars. | ||
| We have a militaristic mindset. | ||
| And instead of developing a global cooperative space program, we continued with the military. | ||
| And nobody has given, since John F. Kennedy, there hasn't been an imaginative enough leader to say to the human race, if we do this, we're going to have new wealth, new resources, new knowledge. | ||
| We haven't had the leadership we need. | ||
| That's what I believe. | ||
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unidentified
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That's right. | |
| We haven't had a goal. | ||
| When Kennedy said it, said we're going to go to the moon, then we had a goal and we all pushed toward it, and by God, we did it. | ||
| But I frequently wonder, a lot of conspiratorialists, Barbara, wonder, and I sometimes wonder with them, we did go to the moon. | ||
| And I wonder if there's something that we know about the moon or Mars or space travel in general that is preventing us from continuing, something we as common folk don't know about. | ||
| Well, I've heard a lot of rumors. | ||
| I've heard rumors that there, you know, UFOs have been actually, that, you know, extraterrestrials have been seen and examined. | ||
| And I have many friends who believe that. | ||
| I don't know, and it isn't a train of thought that I follow. | ||
| I don't say it's true or not true because I actually don't know it. | ||
| But I do know that there are many signs that we're still a very immature species. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| I don't know if we're going to make it, but I have, along with the space program, you see, the environmental movement. | ||
| Okay, we can talk about that. | ||
| Boy, can I talk about that. | ||
| The environmental movement certainly has awakened, but industry and governments are proceeding in the exact opposite direction. | ||
| We have pieces of the Antarctic ice cap breaking off. | ||
| Larson B shelf is breaking up, unstable now and expected to totally dump into the water. | ||
| We have an ozone depletion, which we have verified and know about, causes cancers, is getting worse. | ||
| This is very true. | ||
| And we have all these pollutants that are affecting our genes. | ||
| Oh, listen, in the estuaries off North Carolina, there's something called fisteria, which puts sores on fish and now is beginning to make human beings sick. | ||
| It's all the way up into the North Atlantic. | ||
| I could go on and on and on. | ||
| Where do you see the positive movement for change in that area? | ||
| Well, you're quite right. | ||
| There's a lot of bad signs, but there's also a lot of environmental responsibility that is developing. | ||
| And some of the rivers have been cleaned. | ||
| In many cases, the air has improved. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| You're right. | ||
| In this country. | ||
| Yes, and you see, it's interesting because one of the ways I look at a problem is as an evolutionary driver. | ||
| You either respond to it or you go extinct. | ||
| Now, it's very possible that we will not respond to this and our species will self-destruct. | ||
| But here's the positive potential in it. | ||
| Because the crisis is so real, it might be great enough for us to respond at the scale that would make it, that would, the result of that would be that we would understand how ecologies work. | ||
| Have you done a lot of travel? | ||
| I have done a fair amount of travel, yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| In America, I mean, you are correct. | ||
| We have begun to clean up the rivers. | ||
| Certainly the air is better in some cities, though it's still kind of pathetic above most. | ||
| Right. | ||
| However, in the third world, I've done quite a bit of travel. | ||
| And the third world is just beginning to crank up to the industrial age. | ||
| China, for example, is if you ever got a chance to see what's going on in communist China, it would scare you to death, the amount of economic activity going on. | ||
| And the rest of the world wants what we have. | ||
| And I don't blame them. | ||
| But to get what we have, they are going to have to have the same kind of industrial revolution that we have had. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And believe me, before they ever get there, we will become extinct as a species environmentally. | ||
| Well, yes, you're quite right, unless they skip over the worst problems of the Industrial Revolution and move into renewable sources of energy. | ||
| And then way beyond that, there's real possible breakthroughs like nanotechnology and zero-point energy. | ||
| And the question is, can we evolve past the industrial technologies quickly enough to move to the renewables and the non-polluting energy system? | ||
| Well, I wish I could agree with you. | ||
| I'll ask you as a question. | ||
| Well, and I'm going to answer it. | ||
| I wish I could agree. | ||
| What I see happening is that the fossil fuel kings and czars are not allowing the exploration of these new energy sources. | ||
| In fact, they're suppressing them until all of the fossil fuel is probably, in all probability, very nearly gone. | ||
| And that is exactly what's happening. | ||
| Now, people talk a lot about zero-point energy and all the rest of it. | ||
| And I say to them, and they have these conferences, I say, even just supply me with any evidence, a little toy that is over unity, a little toy, you know, like the energizer bunny that would outdo the energizer bunny. | ||
| Any little thing, and there's nothing. | ||
| No, no, it's not there yet. | ||
| That's really just theoretically possible. | ||
| But the renewable sources of energy and energy conservation, you know the whole scenario of Amory Lovins, that you can save more through energy conservation than you can through trying to make new sources of energy. | ||
| So we've got the ideas for the scenarios, but it's being blocked by the interests in the large corporations and the question is is there enough citizen intelligence to respond to this or not? | ||
| And what I'm saying is let's look at possible plausible scenarios. | ||
| And right after, right in the 70s we used to call it building new worlds on this earth, building new worlds in space. | ||
| And we had conferences where we brought all the different interests together in a big wheel-shaped environment in universities. | ||
| And we asked people to look at goals, needs, and resources in the light of our new potentials. | ||
| Barbara, hold tight. | ||
| We're at the bottom of the hour. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| Barbara Marks Hubbard is my guest. | ||
| I'm Mark Bellin. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
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This is Coast to Coast AM. | |
| *music* | ||
| Call Art Bell in the Kingdom of Neon the Wildcard line at Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| That's Area Code 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM with Arkbell. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| My guest is Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| And she is a potential optimist. | ||
| I think I've got that wrong. | ||
| Regarding our societal direction, and she thinks that we can still get things going in the right direction. | ||
| We'll talk to her more about that. | ||
| Fascinating topic. | ||
| I'm really on the other side of the argument. | ||
| That should make it an interesting interview. | ||
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Thank you. | |
| From the Kingdom of Nye, across the country, around the world, and throughout the universe, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network. | ||
| Well, I see everybody's getting it, almost everybody. | ||
| During the process of construction of this thing in my backyard, I asked people to try and guess what it was. | ||
| It was a test. | ||
| It was like a Roshak test, you know. | ||
| What is this developing thing in Art's backyard? | ||
| And people would say, well, it's a bomb shelter. | ||
| Now, maybe they're commenting on what they think my psychological makeup is. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Other people said it's a doghouse. | ||
| Other people guessed that it was every manner of thing other than what it actually is. | ||
| Now, in its completed stage, it's obviously a barbecue. | ||
| And a pretty spiffy one at that. | ||
| But it was kind of a test that a lot of people failed. | ||
| And so then, how are we to look at ruins on Mars that may be a half million years old, hardly with the average eye, now do you see why I did what I did? | ||
| Everybody just about got it wrong until it was almost complete or tonight when everybody can look at it and say, aha, yes, of course it's a barbecue. | ||
| Otherwise, I got every form of imagined thing you could possibly think about as a sort of a test. | ||
| And I would say, more than not, people failed it. | ||
| And so if we can't determine what is a barbecue going up in somebody's backyard, how are we to judge ruins and faces and pyramids on Mars? | ||
| And I think the answer is we can't. | ||
| We are not educated to understand what we are looking at. | ||
| And with that, back to Barbara Marks-Hubbard. | ||
| Barbara, it is a very interesting thing that's going on right now with regard to Mars. | ||
| We've got a spacecraft going around, and there is a great big debate about whether what it's seeing up there is natural or not. | ||
| And the implications, of course, for humanity, if this was not natural stuff, very significant implications. | ||
| It would mean there have been others that have traversed this area before or a previous civilization that puts this stuff up there, who knows. | ||
| But it's a raging debate, and it's very interesting to see the way people react. | ||
| You know, my thesis here is we should grow up and find out. | ||
| And, you know, we can speculate, but the only way we're going to really know is if we ourselves develop our space capacities, if we become extraterrestrials ourselves and see what's actually possible. | ||
| And I think that that would be the best way of finding out. | ||
| There's a lot of speculation that you can only go so far with. | ||
| But statistically, we believe that we are probably not alone in this universe. | ||
| I would like to read you something that I got just tonight. | ||
| And let me read this and read it for everybody. | ||
| This is from the Royal Air Force. | ||
| This is an absolutely true current story. | ||
| The RAF has tracked a UFO as big as a battleship off the coast of Britain. | ||
| Military sources revealed yesterday. | ||
| They said the massive craft was tracked flying in a zigzag pattern, mind you, at 17,000 miles per hour over the North Sea. | ||
| It then accelerated to 24,000 miles per hour and zoomed off toward the Atlantic. | ||
| The Dutch Air Force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object, were unable to keep up, it is claimed. | ||
| No kidding. | ||
| 24,000 miles an hour. | ||
| RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object spotted by the Ministry of Defense long-range listening station on Philandes Moor in North Yorkshire. | ||
| Quote, it was definitely under control, judging by the various maneuvers executed, said a military source. | ||
| It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship or about 900 feet long. | ||
| Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts around the world who will examine how to exploit, listen to this, will examine how to exploit space for military purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire in June. | ||
| Other tapes of that same UFO thought to have been made during the last two years are being withheld because they give too much information about the radar base's scanning ability. | ||
| So Barbara, there you are. | ||
| This is an absolute report of something blazing through our atmosphere. | ||
| They call them fast walkers at 24,000 miles an hour. | ||
| And the only interest they have in it is military application. | ||
| I know. | ||
| Well, you see, that's the infantile mentality of the human race. | ||
| We're not grown up enough to handle this. | ||
| But you know, here's an interesting thing, Art. | ||
| You've probably read this report of Paul Ray's that says there's 44 million cultural creatives in the U.S. alone. | ||
| Have you heard about that? | ||
| Cultural creatives. | ||
| They're called cultural creatives. | ||
| These are people whose own values are shifting to, let's say, more partnership, nonviolence, sustainability, planetary consciousness. | ||
| And it's the fastest growing subculture in the United States. | ||
| Paul Ray is a social analyst. | ||
| It was published by the Institute of Noetic Sciences and the Petzer Foundation. | ||
| And the thought I have is that while the dominant mindset is still consumption and defense and control, there is emerging millions and millions of people who are not yet in power, but who exist in all fields whose consciousness would be, I would say, more of a cooperative, planetary, spiritually based consciousness. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I think there is a consciousness change underway. | ||
| But I think that it is, I'm sorry to say, a minority, a vast minority of people, even though it may be in the millions, as you suggest. | ||
| And unfortunately, the odds are still pretty good that if you give somebody a rotten look on the freeway, they'll pull out a magnum and blow you away. | ||
| This is absolutely true. | ||
| And you know what gives me hope here? | ||
| This is where I'm a real potentialist. | ||
| As a student of evolution, that is looking at long-range evolution, the formation, the Big Bang, the formation of Earth, life, animal life, human life, and the rise of human culture out of that. | ||
| The immense, magnificent, emerging potentials within the system. | ||
| This philosopher Sri Arabindo said, if you had looked at a rock on the early Earth, and someone had said to that rock, you're going to get up and walk, you're going to get up and talk, you're going to fly to the moon, that the emergent properties before life on earth were, in fact, life and animal life and human life and so forth. | ||
| So what I'm saying is the emergent properties in this current human condition are equally great as to the emergent properties of that rock. | ||
| And I see the emergent properties in our species are appearing all over the place, but they're not yet powerful. | ||
| But neither were the mammals at the time of the dinosaur. | ||
| Evolution creates newness. | ||
| And when you get a critical catastrophic situation like we're in, there are more and more innovations. | ||
| And I think the way the system will evolve is by the connecting and the further integration and communication of positive options. | ||
| That's the approach I'm using in my work, in my book, Conscious Evolution. | ||
| That's the approach. | ||
| We are developing a website called co-creation.org. | ||
| We've got a link up, folks, by the way. | ||
| You can go see this website. | ||
| And what's on there? | ||
| Pardon me? | ||
| What's on there? | ||
| Well, right now it's just beginning, but we're asking people to put their projects in health, education, economics, science, and technology that is leading to a sustainable, humane, and regenerative world. | ||
| And then our next step, which we're just about starting, is to create a college of knowledge. | ||
| These would be key individuals in every one of the major fields who know the breakthroughs and the social innovations in their field. | ||
| And we want to collect the positive social innovations such that we can begin to see the trend and the pattern of the potential of our species. | ||
| Now, when you see the potential, it doesn't mean it's obviously going to happen. | ||
| But you know that if you see a possibility, you're more likely to move toward it than if you don't see that possibility. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Let me hit you with the big one here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I have a theory, and I'm afraid that I might be right. | ||
| Do you remember an old movie, I don't know if you're old enough to remember The High and Mighty, with John Wayne? | ||
| I don't think I saw that. | ||
| Doesn't matter. | ||
| It was about John Wayne, and he was flying across the Pacific Ocean. | ||
| He was an airline pilot, one of the old piston-engine airplanes, right? | ||
| Now, they had something called the point of no return. | ||
| And that simply meant that you had traversed enough of the Pacific Ocean, and a little red light would come on on a panel, and it would tell you that you now no longer have enough fuel to return from whence you came. | ||
| You must, no matter what happens, you must go forward, right? | ||
| Because you have less than half of your fuel left. | ||
| The point of no return, it's called. | ||
| Now, when I look at present social trends and economic trends and environmental trends, I think that humanity's little red light came on some time ago. | ||
| And now, that doesn't mean that I think the end of the world is coming, but I think there is going to be a very drastic change. | ||
| And beyond that, I'm not a prophet, so I wouldn't endeavor to say what that change is going to be, but I think that our point of no return has been passed. | ||
| Well, I agree with you, Art. | ||
| There has to be, one way or another, a radical change. | ||
| And either it will be violent, destructive and it could lead to the extinction of the human species, or if we become what I call conscious of our evolutionary potential, it could be gentle, peaceful, and leading to an immeasurable future. | ||
| And you see, it's so important what people think, because if you think something's possible, you start to move in that direction. | ||
| What I think is very dangerous is the idea that there is no hope, the idea that we're all inevitably going to go down, either economically or environmentally, because that cuts motivation to do anything about it. | ||
| And I think that the way the mass media communicates the news, they're so much more sensitive to breakdown than breakthrough, that people are not equally aware of their options. | ||
| That's all I'm saying. | ||
| And I want to also make the point about the evolution of consciousness. | ||
| There's a wonderful book, kind of text that was written many years ago called Cosmic Consciousness by Dr. Buck, B-U-C-K-E. | ||
| And he points out that there was sentient consciousness with the cells. | ||
| Then there was animal consciousness with multicellular life. | ||
| And then there was self-consciousness with humans. | ||
| And about 3,000, 2,000 years ago, there was a breakthrough in what he called cosmic consciousness. | ||
| And that would be people like Buddha and Jesus and Muhammad. | ||
| And then gradually an acceleration of numbers of people whose consciousness is at the next level. | ||
| Now, you have to imagine that when self-consciousness came in in the human world, in the animal world, it was a breakthrough. | ||
| think there's a rise of a more holistic consciousness that's emerging out of evolution and that's where the real hope lies um I | ||
| Your words are, they sound so good, but we're dealing with changes that how are these newly conscious people, for example, going to affect all the oil consortiums that are going to continue to pump oil and dig in coal until it's finally just about all gone? | ||
| I mean, I have, I'm a friend of Amory and Hunter Lovins up there at the Rocky Mountain Institute, and they're going around to corporations and governments and selling the idea of energy conservation. | ||
| I know that there are many, many people who are working on solar energy now, who are moving towards recycling. | ||
| I mean, there's a movement in the other direction as well. | ||
| Now, I don't know which way it will go. | ||
| I don't know which way it will go, Art, but I think we have to keep our options in front of us because basically people are survival oriented. | ||
| And I don't think we really want to destroy the whole planet. | ||
| And eventually we have to have a political change which is going to regulate these kinds of things and give incentives to the more positive. | ||
| And I think I wanted to get back to the idea of the awakening of women. | ||
| Oh, yes, let's do that. | ||
| Along with the environmental movement, here is a really interesting fact. | ||
| We are the last generation that can keep doubling the population. | ||
| We have over 5 billion people. | ||
| One more doubling, over 10 billion. | ||
| They think it'll happen in 40 years. | ||
| And if we double that again, we're out. | ||
| So this means women alive in this generation are the first to know that they cannot continue to have maximum numbers of children. | ||
| Now, I had five children. | ||
| I'm one of the last to have that many children without thinking. | ||
| You had five children? | ||
| Yes, I did. | ||
| I got married in 1951. | ||
| I had five children. | ||
| Now, what's happening... | ||
| What's happening, this is my theory here, that as we are going to live longer lives and have fewer children, that energy of procreation and reproduction is moving in women towards the energy of self-expression, life purpose, meaningful work. | ||
| And I say we're moving from procreation to co-creation. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, why don't you try that speech out at the Vatican? | ||
| Well, it would be a good place to try it out. | ||
| It would be a good place to try it out because I think the positive side of the population crisis is the liberation of the creativity of women and men to evolve rather than reproduce and to do the work needed for the world. | ||
| Now, I'm a woman who has had both experiences. | ||
| I had my children, but in my mid-30s, after the five children, I found that I had another purpose. | ||
| And I began to feel my purpose was as a communicator, to try to find out what's positive. | ||
| And I'm 68 now, Art. | ||
| Are you? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You don't sound it. | ||
| You know why? | ||
| Because I'm very excited. | ||
| I call it vocational arousal. | ||
| Vocational arousal. | ||
| I am experiencing vocational arousal, and I have coined a word for it. | ||
| It's called supra sex. | ||
| Supra sex. | ||
| Supra, not supra. | ||
| See, the problem is in this modern day, you can't enjoy a cigarette afterwards. | ||
| No, but wait a minute. | ||
| You have to listen to me for a minute. | ||
| Supra sex is the arousal of your genius. | ||
| It's the arousal of your creativity. | ||
| It's the arousal of your desire to express and create. | ||
| And that's a passion as great as the passion to have a baby. | ||
| It is. | ||
| And what I'm saying with women, and men as well, but speaking of women, that the younger women and now the older women like myself are being turned on by a deep desire to create, to express, and it's loving at its core. | ||
| It's a loving energy. | ||
| It is not an angry energy. | ||
| It's a maternal energy at the next level. | ||
| And I think that the awakening of feminine creativity, I call it the feminine co-creator, is one of the greatest untapped forces on earth. | ||
| but in the end, it's going to mean that women have got to turn their attention from creation of life to creation of these energies, uh, creative energies that you're talking about. | ||
| And that kind of goes against nature. | ||
| No, it doesn't. | ||
| Wherever there is development and education, economic development, education, we have women by ch their own choice having fewer children. | ||
| No question about it. | ||
| That's natural. | ||
| You know why it's natural, Art? | ||
| Why? | ||
| Because both things are natural. | ||
| It's natural to reproduce and have a baby, but it's also natural to express yourself and grow your own potential. | ||
| And because of the population limit, either by catastrophe or by choice, we will have fewer children. | ||
| Therefore, that energy that has gone into the reproducing and nurturing of large families. | ||
| By choice. | ||
| By choice. | ||
| But the only time that people get to that point is when they become economically well off and wish to begin to protect that wealth. | ||
| And as I said to you earlier, we've got it's one thing to discuss this country, which has already more or less made it economically. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And another thing to discuss the third world where they want what we have and they're still having babies at a rate that would scare you to death. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I know. | ||
| So what we have to understand and learn is how to have the proper development in the third world. | ||
| Now you may be very much aware of new ways of doing this. | ||
| For example, the microcredit loans, the loans to the very poor that got started in Bangladesh in the Grameen Bank. | ||
| Yes, I've been hearing about that. | ||
| Barbara, we're at the top of the hour, so hold on, relax, take a break. | ||
| We'll be right back. | ||
| There is much more to come. | ||
| Barbara Marks Hubbard is my guest. | ||
| And she is a potential optimist. | ||
| She is a futurist. | ||
| And she is, of course, right. | ||
| It is the bright path that we could follow. | ||
| I'm afraid I'm a bit of a pragmatist, and I look at the same trends and see a somewhat different future. | ||
| Not the end of the world, but a somewhat different future. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
unidentified
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The Coast to Coast AM | |
| AIO AIO. | ||
| To talk with Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nye from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA. | ||
| Then, 800-893-0903. | ||
| If you're a first-time caller, call ART at 702-727-1222. | ||
| From east of the Rockies, 1-800-825-5033. | ||
| West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico. | ||
| Call ART at 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| Or call ART on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nine. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Good morning, everybody. | ||
| I'm going to announce this once more since Los Angeles comes online at this hour. | ||
| About four times a year, surveys are out, and the larger markets, of course, surveys are coming in first. | ||
| And speaking of coming in first, once again, Coast to Coast AM is number one in Los Angeles. | ||
|
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Number one? | |
| According to Disneyland! | ||
| But guess what? | ||
| We're also number one. | ||
| New York City. | ||
| W-A-B-C. | ||
| Number one, folks. | ||
| What a surprise. | ||
| Really is a surprise, and a very pleasant one at that. | ||
| I almost fainted. | ||
| So thank you all in Los Angeles and New York, and we will continue to report as the surveys come in elsewhere. | ||
| My guest is Barbara Max Hubbard. | ||
| Marks Hubbard, pardon me. | ||
| And I just got an interesting fact. | ||
| Marks Hubbard was one of the originators of this mode of thinking. | ||
| And thus, I'm sure Michio Kaku would credit her as one of his spiritual parents. | ||
| Certainly Terence McKenna would. | ||
| Hubbard was, in fact, one of Buckmeister Fuller's heroes. | ||
| She was not speaking to what humanity is now, but what it has the potential to become. | ||
| And I'd like to ask her her opinion of singularism and the seeming polarity of approaches to it. | ||
| We seem to be choosing one of the paths as the millennium approaches, greeting it with bed or her work represents a compromise. | ||
| Thus, I'd be very interested in knowing her take on what Arnold's the quickening. | ||
| Well, if we've been getting that, what various people term the information singularity. | ||
| So we'll turn to that in a moment. | ||
| Once again, here is Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Barbara, welcome back. | ||
| Thank you, Art. | ||
| Singularism, the seeming polarity of approaches to it. | ||
| Would you care to try to answer that? | ||
| What do you mean by singularism? | ||
| Well, what does the facts are mean? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I guess maybe we move on to part two, or maybe it's the way they explain it. | ||
| In other words, the two possible paths that we can take. | ||
| How many people seem to be on path one? | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I would say that the majority of people are unable to think that far ahead to be on one path or the other. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| I mean, they're living day by day and they're taking care of their kids the best they can. | ||
| Most of them's big goal is to make it to the weekend. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| So, I mean, it's not a major issue with most people, but here's what I do believe. | ||
| I think there is a subtle pessimism, or not so subtle, that you particularly see it in the young people. | ||
| The sense that there isn't opportunity, that there's nothing to live for, that they're not it, is causing an almost insane, self-destructive strand running through them because there doesn't seem to be a future that is worth having. | ||
| And it might very well look that way if you didn't see that we're going through a quantum change. | ||
| And in order for anybody to have hope, I think they have to look ahead and we're not given much chance to do that. | ||
| But here's what I see when I look ahead as a possibility. | ||
| I see that we're going to stabilize in a more unitive consciousness. | ||
| Unitive consciousness means you feel connected to the whole. | ||
| I think that we're going to move towards alternative healing, towards awareness of what we already are, of diet, of not smoking, of exercise, leading to healing and eventually to self-generation and life extension. | ||
| I think that the internet and the global intelligence system is going to increase our intelligence to a radical degree. | ||
| I think that we're going to be able to live not only on this Earth but in the solar system, and that we'll have space habitats, energy, and eventually we will build a new environment in space, much like the biosphere was built on this Earth. | ||
| Won't individualism almost automatically, if what you envision is to come true, be suppressed or disappear? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| I think the old, that individualism as separate and self-centered, alienated, that may come to an end. | ||
| But the next stage of individualism that I've discovered in my own life and in many other people's life is when you find what your life purpose is and find out how to co-operate and co-create, you become more unique, more individual through your participation in the whole rather than through your separation from it. | ||
| And the word Bucky Fuller and others used is the word called synergy. | ||
| And synergy is the way nature has evolved. | ||
| You know, atoms form molecules, molecules form cells, multi-cells. | ||
| Now, when you join two or more in a way that each person can do more by joining, that's synergy. | ||
| And you create something greater than you are when you're separate. | ||
| Going to scare a lot of people. | ||
| A lot of people are going to view that as you're saying they will, in a sense, become more individual by becoming part of the whole. | ||
| Yes, I'm saying, but not coerced. | ||
| Not coerced, huh? | ||
| I'm saying through attraction, through affinity, and through the desire to express your own potential. | ||
| You know, one of the pillars of hope for me was Abraham Maslow, his book, Toward a Psychology of Being. | ||
| He was a psychologist in the 50s and 60s, and he studied people who were creative, productive, joyful, and good. | ||
| Instead of studying sick people, he studied well people. | ||
| And he found the hierarchy of human needs, from deficiency, basic needs for food, shelter, security, moving on up to growth needs. | ||
| And he said, every one of us has the need to express chosen vocation, life purpose. | ||
| And if we don't express that, we get sick. | ||
| We get mentally sick. | ||
| We need life purpose at the very same level that we need food. | ||
| Now, if you're hungry, you need food first. | ||
| But once you've got the basics relatively well met, you must find some greater meaning in your life. | ||
| Now, that's good news about the human species. | ||
| And when you do find that meaning, it feels good. | ||
| It feels attractive. | ||
| You know, why am I at 68 years old with five kids and five grandchildren waking up charged every morning with the desire to do more? | ||
| It's because I'm turned on and I feel that in some small way my own creativity may be of service to others. | ||
| That is exciting. | ||
| It's regenerating. | ||
| No one is forcing me to do this. | ||
| All right. | ||
| No one's forcing you to do what you're doing either. | ||
| No, you're right. | ||
| Let's see if I can get you in trouble here. | ||
| With what you have said, this question makes sense. | ||
| Do you, Barbara, this is by facts from Massachusetts, do you believe that the new world order, as envisioned by George Bush, will eventually create a stable political and economic order worldwide? | ||
| No. | ||
| You don't? | ||
| You don't? | ||
| Well, I can't get you double then, I guess. | ||
| Well, but without a stable and political and economic order, how can we achieve what you're saying is possible? | ||
| Well, I do believe that there needs to be a higher order, but I think it's going to come from a higher level of self-government than from anything imposed by some controlling system. | ||
| What would bring this to us, the Internet, perhaps? | ||
| Well, the Internet is certainly one of the factors that's already doing it. | ||
| And I'll tell you a really interesting thing. | ||
| There's a man called D. Hawk, who was the founder of VSAP. | ||
| You know, the charge cards? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He makes the point that he's one of the greatest human problems is the way we are organized. | ||
| Our organizational structures, our command and control. | ||
| They are bureaucratic and hierarchical, and they are causing the destruction of the environment and the destruction of really human well-being. | ||
| And he has created the chaortic alliance, the word for chaos and order, to develop systems that empower people rather than control people. | ||
| and I'm working with him on a couple of projects. | ||
| He's structuring it in so that power does not get centralized. | ||
| Now, there's a big movement afoot at repatterning organizations. | ||
| You know, Peter Sengy calls it the learning organization. | ||
| There's entrepreneurship, there's participatory management, and they're finding that when people are not controlled, but when they become more self-empowered, everything improves. | ||
| So I forget what my point is. | ||
| I forget what your question was. | ||
| Well, it was about this economic. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I think that the New World Order is not an order imposed on us, but it's a deeper democracy which allows us to be more self-organizing and creative. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, that brings up a very interesting question. | ||
| I recently read an assessment of the Internet that you and I should toy with a little bit. | ||
| On the one hand, you might believe the Internet will save us all, that it will bring us together and save us all in some way. | ||
| Or you might believe that the Internet will create, in effect, worldwide, the top 10 ideas. | ||
| That in Bangladesh, in India, in Moscow, we'll all be thinking roughly the same thing because we'll all have the same sort of input. | ||
| This will actually stifle the process of evolution rather than hastening it. | ||
| It will stifle it because without individual entrepreneurism going on, new ideas are less likely to spring up and we're more likely to have the current top ten ideas thought by everybody. | ||
| Well, I think that's just really nonsense because I read a figure the other day. | ||
| There are millions of websites. | ||
| Oh, there are, yes. | ||
| And everybody and anybody can get a way of publishing their material, of finding out information. | ||
| It can't be controlled. | ||
| Certainly I've read that there is some possibility that the commercial interests will be able eventually to control it, but I don't really think so, Art. | ||
| I think that it's not possible for it to be controlled. | ||
| And the type of communications that are developing now are so refined. | ||
| I think what's happening, Peter Russell said it, it's a global brain. | ||
| I think everyone is going to have access to it. | ||
| And it's a huge empowerment of the individual. | ||
| But Internet alone won't do it. | ||
| There has to be an evolution of consciousness. | ||
| There has to be a deepening of, you might say a very simple thing, of our ability to love one another. | ||
| Sure, but this would carry that message. | ||
| It would. | ||
| I mean, I'm a great supporter of the Internet. | ||
| I use it myself. | ||
| And I want to tell your listeners that we have a website. | ||
| It's www.co-creation, oneword, dot org. | ||
| And you can put your projects in there that you think are helping the world move forward. | ||
| And our goal, Art, is to just try to collect and be a search engine for what's working. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, I should tell you and my listeners that, and we have a gigantic website, Barbara, that we have a link up. | ||
| And if they go to my website now and just go scroll down to your name, they will quickly be on your website or immediately. | ||
| So I hope you can carry a lot of traffic. | ||
| Yeah, thank you. | ||
| Thank you, Art, because, you see, we also know that as you think, so you act, and as you act, so the world becomes. | ||
| So it's very important that we think realistically what our positive options are, and that more and more of us are motivated to act on our own potential. | ||
| Now, we still have wars. | ||
| Lots of wars going on all over the place. | ||
| Rumors of wars. | ||
| Probably a problem upcoming with North Korea. | ||
| And I don't really need to sit here and document them all. | ||
| You know what they are. | ||
| We have starvation in a large part of the world. | ||
| We have all of these problems in the third world. | ||
| And what I need to understand to embrace the possibility of what you say we can be is how we are going to handle bringing the third world into this century or the next millennium for that matter without destroying our environment. | ||
| I just, I don't see how that can happen. | ||
| Well, I just wanted to say something on the subject of wars. | ||
| I remember hearing Dr. Robert Mueller, who was Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations, pointing out that although there still are wars, we have finally said as a human species, war is not the best way. | ||
| War is not glamorous. | ||
| War is not noble, heroic, and good. | ||
| We have seen war as a tragedy. | ||
| Only, you know, I guess this really started with the First World War. | ||
| Up to that time, war was considered heroic. | ||
| Look at the Civil War, the horror of the Civil War, and yet they marched proudly in, you know? | ||
| We don't do that anymore. | ||
| Well, now, wait a minute. | ||
| We had the Iraq War. | ||
| But there is a very, very strong desire not to go to war on the I mean we didn't finally, or this last time. | ||
| And I don't know if you believe in the kind of initiatives of the people's power of prayer, the millions of people joining together to try to stop it, as well as many political efforts. | ||
| There was a huge effort in the recent Iraqi crisis to stop it. | ||
| And I think we have a new attitude, which is that war and violence itself is not the way, even though we're still violent. | ||
| I was part of something called the Season for Nonviolence, where millions of people are now trying to see how can we learn to be nonviolent. | ||
| Well, no, no, what we have done is we have become more efficiently violent, Barbara. | ||
| If you actually look at what occurred during the Iraq war, a lot has not been told. | ||
| And what we did is we virtually bombed and buried alive hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers. | ||
| And we did it extremely efficiently, very efficiently, and very quickly. | ||
| We were very good at it. | ||
| So I'm not saying that that was good, that was terrible, but I do think there is still, ever since the nuclear weapons came in, a realization on the part of the masses of humanity that war is too destructive. | ||
| And we haven't gotten out of it yet. | ||
| No, we're not. | ||
| But we can't have a third world war, and we haven't had a nuclear war yet. | ||
| And no, we haven't. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| But there are many people who believe that the balance that was achieved during the Cold War years, the mutual assured destruction scenario that was operative then had us in a lot safer condition than we are presently with Russia on the verge of economic and social collapse and all those nuclear weapons. | ||
| I know. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| It's extremely dangerous. | ||
| You know, in my book, I put forward the idea, this is kind of a general idea, that we don't have a new story that excites us. | ||
| We don't have a view of our future that turns us away from fighting towards achieving something together. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| And I would like to see that we could see that our future could be an expansion of the human species into space and the restoration of the Earth and the freeing of people from hunger and want. | ||
| All right. | ||
| What I would like to do, we're at the bottom of the air. | ||
| I want to pause here. | ||
| Some new goals, Art. | ||
| I hear you. | ||
| We need goals. | ||
| And when we come back, I would like to turn you over to the audience and see what they have to say, all right? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Stay right where you are, Barbara. | ||
| More coming in a moment. | ||
| Barbara Marks Hubbard is my guest. | ||
| And she is potentially optimistic about the future. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
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When the moon's in the never-found, and to the sunrise with Mars, then peace will guide the planet, and love will feel the sun's face. | |
| This is the dawning of the angel. | ||
| Right now, back to Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| We'll have to, I'm afraid, interrupt here and take care of one more commercial in due time. | ||
| But right now, Barbara, welcome back. | ||
| There are two faxes here that are very diametrically opposed, and I think I'll read them. | ||
| One says, Dear Art, I think Barbara ought to be given a cold shower and locked in a room with Ed Dames for four hours. | ||
| With who? | ||
| Ed James. | ||
| Who's that? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| He is a remote viewer, and his nickname is Dr. Doom. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And he finishes, then, let's see if she's still Ms. Sunshine. | ||
| But then, here comes another one. | ||
| This is good stuff. | ||
| Barbara Marks Hubbard is a very special woman. | ||
| She's the daughter of, is it Lowe's Marks? | ||
| Lewis Marks. | ||
| Lewis Marks, I'm sorry. | ||
| You and I played with his creations. | ||
| Remember Mark's toys? | ||
| Barbara, can you tell a fascinating story about your father and Dwight Eisenhower, something that occurred around the time of World War I? | ||
| It involves a toy train and what gimbals could not do, but Marks did. | ||
| What's he talking about? | ||
| Oh, my goodness. | ||
| Well, it wasn't World War I. I'm not that old. | ||
| But my father was a toy maker, and one of his friends was Bernard Gimbel of the Gimbel stores. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And Bernard Gimbel brought Hap Arnold, who subsequently was the head of the Air Force, who had a missing piece of a toy train. | ||
| And my father gave Hap Arnold the piece of train that he needed, became a good friend of my father's, and my father got to know the whole set of generals, Eisenhower, Marshall, Bradley, General Smith, and they became godfathers of my half-brothers. | ||
| So that we had all the five-star generals of the Second World War, basically godfathers in my family, and they were my father's dearest friends. | ||
| And when I was about 22 years old, I was taken to the White House to meet President Eisenhower when he was just made president. | ||
| And I'll never forget it. | ||
| I had this question that arose when we dropped the bomb on Japan. | ||
| And the question was, what is the meaning of this power that's good? | ||
| So when I was taken to see President Eisenhower, I said, Mr. President, I have a question for you. | ||
| And he said, yes, young lady. | ||
| And the question was, what is the meaning of our power that's good? | ||
| Where are we going? | ||
| And he looked so shocked, and he shook his head, and he said, I don't know. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And that's when, as a young woman, it occurred to me, well, we better find out. | ||
| Because we have all this power and we don't have an attractive goal, an attractive vision. | ||
| And where there is no vision, people perish. | ||
| And I think a lot of the perishing you're talking about is because of the lack of an evolutionary vision that could show us the meaning of our power is really the evolution and transformation of humanity. | ||
| Well, that shows the difference. | ||
| You see, I, as a child, also shook hands with Dwight Eisenhower. | ||
| My dad was the personal director for the Waldorf Astoria in New York. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| And he was there, and I got to shake hands with him, and I was so odd I couldn't ask anything. | ||
| Well, he was like a Santa Claus. | ||
| You know, he gave away so many toys, and he was a self-made man. | ||
| He was a poor boy in Brooklyn, and he made his way, you know, like a Horatio Alger. | ||
| And I'm the oldest of nine children. | ||
| So I had advantage of being with a father who had that gut-level hope and strength. | ||
| And he imbued me with hope. | ||
| And when we asked him what religion were we, he said, you're an American. | ||
| Do your best. | ||
| And you certainly are. | ||
| Hold on one moment. | ||
| When we come back, we're going to open the phone lines. | ||
| And so I hope you'll have a question. | ||
| Lots of people lined up, so you must. | ||
|
unidentified
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���� ���� From the Kingdom of Nigh, Coast to Coast A.M. continues with Art Bell. | |
| Well, all right. | ||
| Back now to Barbara. | ||
| Barbara. | ||
| Just one quick question then to the phones. | ||
| It is this. | ||
| Art, please ask Barbara to explain the scenario where we destroy ourselves, meaning, I gather, losing the technological ability to get off Earth. | ||
| I particularly wonder how we could do this environmentally. | ||
| In other words, what if it comes to a choice, Barbara, where, yes, we have to get off Earth, I believe we do, but there is such a big environmental price to pay to get off Earth that it would, in effect, destroy us to do so? | ||
| Well, I just don't think that's true. | ||
| I knew Professor Gerard O'Neill, who was a Princeton professor, and Ted Taylor, and what they were all talking about is establishing a non-terrestrial resource base where you would get a foothold, and then you would start using non-terrestrial resources in space, from space, and you would not be constantly even having to bring things back to Earth. | ||
| In fact, you would, once you're established there, you become using the non-terrestrial both energy and resources, and you become a resource to Earth rather than taking something from Earth. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Here's another zinger for you. | ||
| Is organized religion, in your opinion, Barbara, an ally or enemy in spiritual evolution of the sort you're discussing? | ||
| Well, I think that all the world's religions were founded by individuals who had and expressed a deep higher quality of being, which I consider to be the next stage of evolution. | ||
| I think it's true of every great religion, that the individual founders and the people who you might say are the mystics and the people who've had direct experience, whether it be a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Jewish, a Christian, a Muslim tradition, when they've had the direct experience within that tradition, I think they are a beneficent force. | ||
| Where religion becomes destructive is when it becomes dogmatized, institutionalized, and fundamentalist in which it says only mine is right. | ||
| Now when that happens, it's destructive. | ||
| But I don't call that spiritual and I don't call that religious. | ||
| Has that not been the cause of many wars? | ||
| It has. | ||
| And organized religion in its dogmatic, institutionalized form has probably caused more problems on earth than anything else. | ||
| However, the deeper impulse within those religions is good. | ||
| And I think what's happening now is that people who are whatever faith we come from, that what we're realizing is we have to be responsible ourselves, not whether we're Jews, Christians, or Muslims, but are we good human beings? | ||
| All right, I interviewed a very fascinating fellow the other night. | ||
| His name was Matthew Alper. | ||
| And Matthew has written a book called The God Spot, meaning in your brain. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The God Spot. | |
| That's right. | ||
| And his contention is that we are, of course, mortal beings whose basic instinctual fear of death can only be satisfied by some sort of realization that there is more to all of this than our mortal lives, | ||
| that we go on in some way after our physical death, and that our brain, through the process of evolution, has forced us into this belief. | ||
| He is an atheist. | ||
| Well, you know, there's a very interesting thought now coming up, which is that consciousness is not limited to the brain. | ||
| That consciousness is even more than that. | ||
| That consciousness is the fundamental nature of reality, and that matter and energy comes up out of consciousness. | ||
| The other view is that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of matter. | ||
| But the newer view, and in some respects the more ancient view, is that the fundamental, let's say the Buddhists would call it the void, or the field of all possibilities, has within it fullness, | ||
| is pure consciousness, and that the universe has emerged out of consciousness, and what's happened is that the humans, as we become more complex, or all life becomes more complex, become more conscious of consciousness. | ||
| We are aware that we are aware. | ||
| That's what Homo sapiens sapiens means. | ||
| And in my book, Conscious Evolution, I'm assuming that that consciousness that's aware that it knows is going to become ever more aware of the processes that are creating us, the ecologies, the atoms, the genes, the brains, and so forth, so that we can become co-evolutionary. | ||
| And I think, this is what Bucky Fuller said, that our minds are designed to know the design of nature. | ||
| And as we learn the design of nature, we become ever more abundant because nature itself is incredibly abundant, particularly if you think of it the solar system and universal scale. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I must go to the lines or they'll string me up. | ||
| First time caller line, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| This is Elizabeth from Philadelphia. | ||
| Hi, Elizabeth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| I'm a new listener as well, and I am just so excited to hear this kind of talk going on. | ||
| I just think this is so greatly needed. | ||
| And I've heard Ed Dames and I've heard Barbara, and I think I'd like to choose Barbara's paradigm in the middle. | ||
| Well, it's certainly a more attractive scenario. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I think it's possible. | |
| I think there's even room for both visions. | ||
| I think that if some awful things are going to happen Both visions, I believe, are possible. | ||
| And it's up to us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And if some awful things even still do happen, if we aren't able to make this huge shift in our consciousness in time for some of the things to come down, still the work that we do now will provide outposts, if you will. | |
| Well, here's one for you. | ||
| How about this theory? | ||
| We can shift now or we can shift later. | ||
| And the later we shift, the worse. | ||
| Yeah, I believe that to be absolutely true. | ||
| And so I thank you, Elizabeth. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Arg. | |
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Curtis in San Diego. | |
| Yes, sir. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Barbara. | |
| Hi. | ||
| Just real quickly, I want to tell you, my brother died like a year ago, and he had this, I was going through his closet finally after my mother allowed us to. | ||
| He had this shirt, black and white shirt, black with white lettering, and all it said on it was, correct the past to protect the future. | ||
| And that's sort of all that I wanted from him. | ||
| Correct the past to protect the future. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| And that's what I wanted to tell you really quickly about something, too. | ||
| I don't mean I wanted to ask her about that, but about a week ago, this fool that you had on the radio station, he said something about Houston when you played his voice backwards. | ||
| Oh, reverse speech, yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He said Houston, and Houston is a very important factor in, I think, all right. | |
| Well, you're straying off. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, are you there? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You're kind of straying away from me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I'm trying. | |
| Houston, November 21st, 1963, the day before the president was shot. | ||
| in Houston, that's like a lot of And that's where what we got to correct. | ||
| Well, now that is worth some discussion. | ||
| And that is there are certain things that have happened in our society. | ||
| Barbara, the President Kennedy's assassination, Watergate. | ||
| Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. | ||
| Yeah, and so forth and so on. | ||
| And a kind of a loss of faith in our institutions. | ||
| They've fallen one by one. | ||
| And that has to somehow be turned around. | ||
| You know, there's a very wonderful image I mentioned in my book, Conscious Evolution. | ||
| It's a metamorphosis of a caterpillar to a butterfly. | ||
| Let me tell you this real quickly. | ||
| When a caterpillar starts to create its cocoon, in the caterpillar there are these little imaginal discs that hold the image of the butterfly. | ||
| And the immune system of the caterpillar recognizes these discs as foreign and tries to destroy them. | ||
| But the discs keep replicating until they become imaginal cells. | ||
| And the cells connect, and the immune system of the caterpillar surrenders, and actually the new cells eat up the substance of the caterpillar and becomes the butterfly. | ||
| Now, I think the assassinations of people like the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and many great people of the past is because they were imaginal discs. | ||
| They represented the emerging societal butterfly, and they were destroyed by the limitations of the caterpillar. | ||
| However, if it is true that there are 44 million people in the U.S. whose consciousness is becoming more planetary and more connected, that's like we're becoming imaginal selves. | ||
| And we are holding, we collectively are holding the image of a new possibility. | ||
| And metamorphosis occurs. | ||
| By the way, where do you get that figure, 44 million? | ||
| It comes from Paul Rays, and he did a study of integral culture transformational values in the U.S. You can get it from the Institute of Noetic Sciences in Sausalito, California. | ||
| All right. | ||
| East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Barbara Mark Subbard. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| This is John from San Antonio. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
| Hi, John. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good morning, Barbara. | |
| May I try a simple test with you, Barbara, that requires a yes or no answer? | ||
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, suppose you were standing at the end of the assembly line for General Motors in Michigan, and a Cadillac came off a line with so many thousands of parts, and everything all placed together so that the car was sitting there? | |
| Would you say at that moment as reflective, intelligent being that the assembly line created the Cadillac? | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| The assembly line didn't create anything, Barbara. | ||
| I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The engineering department of General Motors created the Cadillac. | |
| Right. | ||
| The assembly line simply followed the engineering department's plan and assembled the Cadillac. | ||
| Evolution at its very best, Barbara, is only an assembly line. | ||
| There has to be an engineer running the show. | ||
| Otherwise, nothing would come together properly. | ||
| Well, I agree with you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There has to be a God. | |
| We're back to George Bush now. | ||
| I believe there's a transcendent designing intelligence that is animating everything and that evolution is a process whereby that intelligence manifests itself. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But you think, Barbara, that we collectively can become the intelligent being, and you're not willing to submit yourself to an all-and-mighty, powerful God. | |
| That's your problem, Barbara. | ||
| You have lost hope because your hope is placed in mankind, and you see how mankind is falling, Barbara. | ||
| I believe we were created by a magnificent process of creation, and that in our deepest essence, that that process of creation, what you call that almighty supreme reality, is reflected in us through us. | ||
| You see creation and evolution as one? | ||
| You know what? | ||
| I don't think there I'm not either a creationist nor am I a Darwinian evolutionist. | ||
| I'm a post-Darwinian, which means I believe that there is a designing, patterning, implicate order, you might say, in evolution that is transcendent. | ||
| Now, I don't call it an anthropomorphic God, but I do believe that there is an intentionality and direction that has been called God, and that we experience as spirit, we experience it as love, and that there is a higher power of which we are all an expression. | ||
| And I bet I know the caller's response to that, so go ahead and make it, caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I'd love to respond, Art. | |
| The problem with your belief, Art and Barbara's, is that y'all don't want to believe that you're in a sin nature and that you need a supreme being to pay for your sins and to bow down and be submissive to that supreme being. | ||
| You don't want to do that. | ||
| You want to try to rely on yourselves, but you see how man keeps falling. | ||
| And man is going to continue to fall until Jesus Christ comes back and sets this world straight. | ||
| That's how you are going to be saved. | ||
| I'm going to be saved. | ||
| That's how the world is going to be saved. | ||
| Not through your efforts, Barbara, because you have proven as a human being that you're in a sin nature. | ||
| You know, Jesus said, you will do the works that I do, and greater works than these shall you do in the fullness of time. | ||
| Now, I believe Jesus came to reveal to us the potentiality of all of us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jesus came to reveal, Barbara, to you that he is God Almighty. | |
| That's what he came down for and died on the cross for you 2,000 years ago for. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| There you are, Barbara. | ||
| Now, I let that go because I think he was making a very important point with regard to the percentage of people that will always be obstructionist to everything you have said. | ||
| Well, you know, I think there are all kinds of beliefs in this world. | ||
| I know that. | ||
| Oh, indeed. | ||
| Every religion, and they're all contradictory, by the way. | ||
| Listen, we're at the top of the hour, and I can offer you another half hour or an hour, or you can go to sleep now. | ||
| Your choice. | ||
| Can I have some more calls? | ||
| You can have some more calls. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You got to go. | |
| I'll take another half hour, then I need to go to sleep. | ||
| You got it. | ||
| 30 minutes of more calls coming up. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Stay right there. | ||
| Barbara Marks Hubbard is my guest. | ||
| Fascinating woman. | ||
| Fascinating discussion. | ||
| You put us both in the same category. | ||
| All right, this is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| I'm RFL. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've been ready for the hands of hell of myself. | |
| Yeah! | ||
| If you have a fax for Art Bell in the Kingdom of Nigh, send it to him at Area Code 702-727-8499. | ||
| 702-727-8499. | ||
| Please limit your faxes to one or two pages. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell. | ||
| Now, here again is Art. | ||
| Once again, here I am. | ||
| My guest is Barbara Marks Hubbard, and she'll be right back to take more of your calls for at least 30 more minutes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I still have time to get by. | |
| Every time I think about it, I almost cry. | ||
| The phone will be used to come. | ||
| The way it may be time to be young. | ||
| If you listen carefully to the words of that, it sort of fits right in with what we're talking about this morning. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
| I'm Martell. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Very quickly, Barbara, a facts. | ||
| Barbara, the last 2,000 years of recorded human history is the best indicator of the path that mankind is following. | ||
| If the world was going to embark on this happy global consciousness, it would have happened a millennium ago. | ||
| The world grows more divided and complicated every day. | ||
| Comments? | ||
| Well, I think that it certainly is growing more complex. | ||
| But on the other hand, I don't think it's growing more divided. | ||
| I think that there's far more connection on a planetary scale than ever existed 2,000 years ago. | ||
| I mean, we now know that our environments are linked, our defense systems are linked, our communication systems are linked. | ||
| Despite ourselves, we're being integrated into one whole living system. | ||
| And in that system, there's a lot of pain. | ||
| But the fact is we're feeling the whole pain of the whole body. | ||
| If a child is starving in Somalia, we feel it. | ||
| If there's a war in Iraq, it's in our living room. | ||
| This has never existed before. | ||
| Okay, back to the lines. | ||
| First time caller line. | ||
| You're on the air with Barbara Martz Hubbard. | ||
| Where are you, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that me? | |
| That's you, although only you know that for sure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where are you? | |
| I'm in Kalispell, Montana. | ||
| Well, actually out of town in a cabin in the mountains. | ||
| Wow, okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Barbara, first I wanted to say my heart really felt very warm happiness for the first time ever in my life, and I'm 55, to hear someone speak and say aloud publicly the things you have, and they are true. | |
| We can travel consciously out in the universe if we dare to question, if we dare to ask for the knowledge, it'll be given, if we dare to experience. | ||
| Somebody gave me a bumper sticker about seven years ago up in the mountains, and it said, excuse me, my karma just overran your dogma. | ||
| I don't mean it to be sarcastic, but the divisions, as you said, I was raised very, very strict Orthodox, And there was more hatred expressed everywhere I've lived in this country over religious differences, over disputations, which is ridiculous because we're no lower than the highest and we're no higher than the lowest because we can be easy with one thought. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| We appreciate your call. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
| Hello there. | ||
| Yes, it is. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm listening to KNZZ at a Grand Junction. | |
| Colorado, all right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Barbara, thank you. | ||
| You're one of the spirits that's touching my heart. | ||
| Consider this. | ||
| I am a principal of the Sundance religion, which is the Native American religion. | ||
| We are earth gardeners. | ||
| We have been waiting for millennium to be able to pass the information that it is indeed now time for mankind to understand what it means to take care of the earth and to garden the earth. | ||
| And we have been turned from our principles of understanding the spirit into a selfishness, a sheep-like condition, as illustrated by one of the gentlemen who called you earlier and talking about being saved. | ||
| If we destroy the earth, who's going to save us? | ||
| Well, an awful lot of Native Americans are building casinos as fast as they can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It has nothing to do with the earth. | |
| No, it has to do with it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Consider this. | |
| A warrior becomes a hunter looking for flowers. | ||
| And if that can be a reality for the minds of humanity, then I do believe we still have a chance. | ||
| I don't want to give in totally to the devastation that mankind has caused. | ||
| I think that we do have alternatives that we haven't explored yet. | ||
| Well, then you surely agree with Barbara. | ||
| And frankly, I'm happy to hear an optimist on the air. | ||
| And I'm glad you're here, Barbara. | ||
| I don't know that I agree with you, but I'm very pleased to have you here. | ||
| Well, thank you, Art. | ||
| East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Where are you? | ||
| This is Gowana. | ||
| I'm calling from Boston. | ||
| Boston, all right. | ||
| First of all, I have to say, Art, earlier, well, you refer to... | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You refer to Barbara as a potential optimist? | |
| An optimist with regard to our potential. | ||
| However, you refer to yourself as a pragmatist. | ||
| Yeah, I think I'm pragmatic. | ||
| Well, see, all pessimists refer to themselves as pragmatists. | ||
| Well, that's perhaps because a good honest... | ||
| Let her do what she's doing. | ||
| You know, I think that there's a new pragmatism because it's not pragmatic to say that we're all going to die. | ||
| Well, I'm not saying that. | ||
| But see, I'm not saying that. | ||
| No, no, I'm not saying you are. | ||
| But pragmatism has to be based on something that would actually work toward a life enhancement. | ||
| So to be pragmatic means you find something positive and make it work. | ||
| Well, to me, pragmatic means that I look at current trends and come up with a very different answer than you have. | ||
| But you don't think it's inevitably going to total destruction. | ||
| Well, you recall the little red light, don't you? | ||
| That I talked about. | ||
| Yes, right. | ||
| Yes, I think we have passed the point of no return. | ||
| Now, that doesn't mean that I think the world is going to end. | ||
| I simply think that there is going to be very large change. | ||
| Well, there we agree, Art. | ||
| And a lot of people are not going to make it to the other side. | ||
| That depends on what we do. | ||
| It could be very painful or it could be less painful. | ||
| And my image is birth. | ||
| Birth is painful. | ||
| We're going to change. | ||
| Nobody can stop that now. | ||
| It's a question of are we going to do it very painfully or are we going to do it more cooperatively? | ||
| Well, there we agree. | ||
| Caller, anything else? | ||
| Barbara, yeah, I wanted to tell you that I find myself admiring you a great deal, particularly in the way that you handled the gentleman who insisted that Jesus Christ would save us. | ||
| As a person with a very strong Jewish identity, I found that a bit hard to swallow. | ||
| And your response of thanks was wonderful. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And my question is, as a 24-year-old woman in the depressive Gen X kind of state, what do I do? | ||
| Well, you are. | ||
| My granddaughters are now in their 20s, and I believe that there is a new woman coming forth who has within her the creativity to express her love in her community, in her society, in her world. | ||
| And she can choose to have children, and children becomes a vocation. | ||
| Or she can choose to give birth to her own life purpose and not have children, and that's also a vocation. | ||
| Do you have children? | ||
| Do you want to get... | ||
| But I'll tell you what. | ||
| I want to bring up the other side of this. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| A woman now can... | ||
| Generally, they are entering careers. | ||
| They are becoming very much like men have been, career-oriented, goal-oriented, economic satisfaction-oriented. | ||
| They, frankly, have become what men are, or they are becoming what men are. | ||
| And I don't see how this leads to a consciousness raising back to family values or anything else. | ||
| It's going exactly the opposite way. | ||
| I'm not saying that women are becoming like men. | ||
| What I'm saying is that as women have fewer children, the maternal instinct is moving out in a more loving way into the world. | ||
| I'm not speaking just of being competitive professionals. | ||
| I'm speaking of being creative nurturers of life. | ||
| And I think Millions of women are shifting in that direction, and some of them may be professional, and some of them may not. | ||
| Most of them are trying to break through the glass ceiling. | ||
| Well, I know that there's also the need for, you know, two incomes in a family, and women obviously want to have equal rights with men, but we don't want to have equal rights on the Titanic. | ||
| Well, well said. | ||
| West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| My name's Heather, and I'm here in Vancouver, B.C. Hi, Heather. | ||
| Hi. | ||
| I actually called in when you were talking with Greg Braden, which is kind of what led me into this call. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And he mentioned Barbara Marks Hubbard when I called, actually, when I talked about conscious evolution. | |
| Barbara, I really want to thank you. | ||
| I was at the Western Unity Retreat at Miracle Mountain on Whistler Mountain back in 1985. | ||
| Oh, my goodness. | ||
|
unidentified
|
When I was 19 years old, and I'm now almost 32. | |
| And your team came up tonight, actually, because in a business I'm involved in, we were talking about creating a vision for your future. | ||
| And from your workshop, I realized that everything that I had in my vision has come true. | ||
| So it was very exciting to share with people in the group how when you set a vision it really can happen because I'm a testimony to that. | ||
| I know we're moving into conscious evolution and Greg Braden was talking about that and I was saying that we were kind of getting our training wheels taken off, that evolution up until this point has been on autopilot. | ||
| Is that why maybe we're causing all these crises? | ||
| We wake up and access our potential, otherwise we would never, we're getting pushed out of the nest, so to speak? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| I think that Mother Earth herself is sending signals to us that we have to become more cooperative, more connected, more aware, and that if we don't, it'll be very serious, just like art says, it's already very serious. | ||
| But because these signals from our environment mainly are very dangerous, there is an awakening occurring. | ||
| And I read Greg Braden's material, and he certainly indicates there's going to be a whole change in the Earth energies. | ||
| And here's a very interesting thought, that as we become more resonant, that is to say more aligned and loving one another, that actually affects the energy of the Earth itself. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I believe that. | |
| Absolutely. | ||
| I just wanted to thank you so much for being such an amazing inspiration for me all these years and for your marvelous, can I see you starting your piece room on the internet? | ||
| That's correct. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Best of luck to you. | |
| Thank you very much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you, Arthur. | |
| Take Karen. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| First time caller line, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hi, where are you, please? | ||
| Hello. | ||
| Going once, going twice, gone. | ||
| Wildcard line, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Where are you, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm in Southern California. | |
| Welcome. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi. | |
| Is it perhaps true that the current conditions that we're facing are a consequence of 2,000 years or so of many, many generations reading Christian dogma which says prophesizes the end of the world and that by dealing with time as a reality that the culminating of this millennium, people kind of have it in the back of their minds that time is short and that they're going for all they can get without regard for the future. | ||
| That's a very, very good question, actually. | ||
| It is a good question, and I think the story, the Judeo-Christian story that ended in the Armageddon scenario in the book of Revelation has been very influential in people's thinking. | ||
| And I wrote a book called Revelation in which I said that the alternative to Armageddon would be a planetary Pentecost. | ||
| It would be a time on earth when millions of people would hear from within in their own language the inner words of spirit. | ||
| And I don't think Armageddon is inevitable by any means. | ||
| But I do think that that story has had a major influence and that we need to have a new ending to the story. | ||
| And the new ending is a new beginning. | ||
| I believe that the New Jerusalem is a poetic intuition of the next stage of evolution. | ||
| Because I actually believe ultimately we will move beyond the animal body. | ||
| We'll move beyond the illusion of separation. | ||
| We will be that evolutionary process is going to select for those able to connect to the deeper reality. | ||
| All right. | ||
| East of the Rockies, you're on the air with Barbara Martzhubbard Hyde. | ||
| Where are you, please? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oklahoma City. | |
| Oklahoma City. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Did you feel the earthquake? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, we didn't. | |
| Yeah, you had an earthquake. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We actually detect those, too. | |
| We get, what, 300 a year or something? | ||
| About 4.5 on the Richter, not too many miles from you. | ||
| Anyway, go ahead, sir. | ||
| Well, Guy Lee, I'm in complete agreement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know what to say, but except that this does seem to, I think it has something to do with the electromagnetosphere also, and what being that we are somewhat biochemical transducers of energy. | |
| And this fits right on in with our conscious level. | ||
| And I've felt nothing but an enlightenment for the last quickening time here. | ||
| My parents spoke of this in 1954. | ||
| Told me about it since I was six years old. | ||
| And I've been searching basically for the unified field theory in alliance with the, you know, science and spirituality combined. | ||
| And I believe that's where we need to go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And we will verify. | |
| Well, we have to verify God. | ||
| You know, look around at you. | ||
| What do you have? | ||
| You need any greater verification than that. | ||
| But we're given the ability to create. | ||
| And if we sit back and just wait for God to do it all, it's a little bit blasphemous and terribly unappreciative to expect more out of this life after being like that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, one of the ways I put it, it's the eighth day of creation. | ||
| On the seventh day, God rested. | ||
| On the eighth day, humanity has to wake up and see that we've been created to be responsible, but not responsible out of hubris or separation, responsible in alignment with the deeper process of creation or with God. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, we have to get rid of our egos and great self-esteems. | |
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because that blocks our empathy levels. | |
| Exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
By the way, I am working on a device that can create matter out of supposedly antimatter. | |
| I won't go into it in any depth right now. | ||
| Well, you call me back about that one, Willie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm just going to send you a fax, and I'll send you one too, young lady. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Thank you very much for the call. | ||
| West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Barbara Marks Hubbard. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Art. | |
| Hi, where are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm in Seattle. | |
| Seattle, all right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes, Barbara, I wanted to ask you, in mentioning the Creator, the man who talked about God a while ago. | |
| Yes. | ||
| How can we deny the existence of a God when this whole thing we call life and this whole world that we know is in such a delicate balance? | ||
| I do not deny the existence of God. | ||
| I believe that there is a divine intelligence, that there's no way that this universe could have emerged with all this beautiful order by random accident. | ||
| I believe that it's not accidental. | ||
| There's a deeper design, and you can call it God, you can call it higher power, you can call it spirit, you can call it the implicate order of evolution. | ||
| But I agree with that, and I feel that we are ever more able to attune to that as we evolve in consciousness. | ||
| But that's not enough for you, is it, Color? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, it's not. | |
| It isn't one. | ||
| Why is that enough? | ||
| What more are you asking? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I just don't believe that we, you mentioned we would get away from this animal body. | |
| Is that what you just said here? | ||
| I said eventually. | ||
| Yeah, you know, we already are. | ||
| We're building. | ||
| You can get new parts. | ||
| You can get a pacemaker. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that's man's doing. | |
| Well, that's what I'm saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But I'm also a Christian, and I firmly believe that I was created in the image of God, not in an animal. | |
| You know, I don't believe that we can believe part of the Word of God and not believe the other half. | ||
| All right, Caller, I wish we had more time to pursue this with you, but we don't. | ||
| Barbara, I do want to ask you your book, where can people get it? | ||
| Well, I think they can get it in any bookstore, and I'll give you the phone number of my office to order it. | ||
| Please do that. | ||
| It's 415-415-454-454-8191. | ||
| 8191. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Well, Art, thank you very much. | ||
| It has been an absolute pleasure and very... | ||
| No, in a lot of ways, we believe the same things. | ||
| We just perhaps envision a different outcome. | ||
| But that's what makes life interesting. | ||
| And you know what, Art? | ||
| We need to have the true facts here. | ||
| I would never want to deny that. | ||
| And we have to build on that the most positive future we can. | ||
| Barbara, thank you. | ||
| Thank you, Art. | ||
| And good night. | ||
| Again, that phone number for the book, folks, is area code 4015-454-8191. | ||
| That's 4015-454-8191. | ||
| When we come back, it's open lines, anything goes. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Coast to Coast AM | |
| Coast to Coast AM To DrunkwithArt Bells in the Kingdom of Nigh. | ||
| From east of the Rockies, dial 1-800-825-5033. | ||
| West of the Rockies, including Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, 1-800-618-8255. | ||
| First-time callers may reach Art at Area Code 702-727-1222. | ||
| And you may call ART on the wildcard line at area code 702-727-1295. | ||
| To reach Art from outside the U.S., first dial your access number to the USA, then 800-893-0903. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM from the Kingdom of Nye with Art Bell. | ||
| Once again, I would like to thank the people of Los Angeles and New York City for making us number one. | ||
| Survey's just out. | ||
| Coast to Coast AM is number one in Los Angeles and New York City, and we'll kind of follow as the rest of the surveys come in nationwide. | ||
| But thank you. | ||
| Pretty cool, huh? | ||
| I've got something coming up in a moment that is going to totally freak you out because it did me. | ||
| So prepare yourself. | ||
| That's all I can say. | ||
| Prepare yourself. | ||
| How's that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
And now, back to the best of Art Bell. | |
| Well, all right. | ||
| What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to talk to a fellow named Joe. | ||
| Joe is, in fact, a friend of the man who calls himself the wave rider. | ||
| We received a total of three very, very, very literate, Articulate communications from somebody who claims to be an affected time traveler. | ||
| He calls himself the Wave Rider. | ||
| And Joe in Texas, in Austin, Texas, has sent me a fax, and he has included the code words that I might know who I'm speaking to. | ||
| I'm not going to tell you what those code words are, but I know that he's the real McCoy. | ||
| But before I proceed with what I'm about to do, I think I need to get Joe's permission in effect. | ||
| Joe? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Joe, because what we are about to discuss, potentially, and if you tell me not to do it, we will not do it, is in the blacked out portion of the facts from the Waverider, I thought I better scare you. | ||
| I've already done that. | ||
| I better get from you, in effect, permission to discuss what you have written in this facts, because it does reveal a portion of the blacked out part of the Wave Rider's communication. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, I think actually that it's important to do that now. | |
| You do? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right, then. | ||
| Hold tight, and we'll be right back. | ||
| Keith Rowland, if you are listening, minus name, identification, and so forth, would you please take the WaveRider facts, the one that is relevant that I am about to discuss, and remove the blacked out portion and put it back on the website? | ||
| You'll understand why when I read the following. | ||
| Art, this is Joe, and I've got a last name, in Austin, Texas, the friend of the Wave Rider. | ||
| I just joined your show tonight at 1.30 a.m. | ||
| That would be Texas time. | ||
| You scared me. | ||
| Remember that in the first packs that the Wave Rider sent you in the area blacked out at his request, he warned you about this UFO that you are reporting on tonight. | ||
| He told you then that the RAF, Royal Air Force, would send this UFO stuff to the USA. | ||
| He said that the RAF would send info and samples of a triangular, listen closely folks, a triangular UFO to our Pentagon. | ||
| He also warned that this would somehow lead to the deaths of hundreds of people. | ||
| I do not know how this is to happen, but I am worried. | ||
| Now, let me read you what I have, all right? | ||
| This comes from CAUSE, C-A-U-S. | ||
| Dated 27 April 98. | ||
| The headline is, 24,000 mile per hour UFO buzzes Britain. | ||
| Now listen carefully. | ||
| The RAF has tracked a UFO as big as a battleship off the coast of Britain, military sources revealed yesterday. | ||
| They said the massive craft was tracked flying a zigzag pattern at 17,000 miles per hour over the North Sea. | ||
| It then accelerated to 24,000 miles per hour and zoomed off toward the Atlantic. | ||
| The Dutch Air Force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object, were unable to keep up, it is claimed. | ||
| RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object, spotted by the Ministry of Defense long-range listening station on Flandes Moor in North Yorkshire. | ||
| Quote, it was definitely under control, judging by the various maneuvers executed, said a source. | ||
| It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship about 900 feet long. | ||
| Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts around the world who will examine how to exploit space for military purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire in June. | ||
| Other tapes of the UFO thought to have been made during the last two years are being withheld because they give too much information about the radar base's scanning ability. | ||
| However, military chiefs may release a second series of tapes reported to show 12 UFOs changing shape in mid-flight. | ||
| Now, welcome back again, Joe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Do you want to update the audience on the situation with the Wave Rider and what you suspect? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, really what I suspect right now, I'm not certain. | |
| He's disappeared. | ||
| He has always contacted me weekly for the period of the last at least a year. | ||
| And we've always had an agreement that if he didn't contact me for two to three weeks, then I need to just assume that he was lost and I was to move on. | ||
| In the past year, I've spent a lot of time talking with him about his life and actually watching him as he literally travels in time before my eyes has been amazing. | ||
| And he is now gone for, I don't know, three weeks or so. | ||
| It was the 6th of April last I spoke with him. | ||
| Too long. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Too long. | |
| Do you consider that what was at the top of his facts in the blacked out area and what I just read, do you think they could be a coincidence? | ||
| Is there any possibility that this could be a coincidence? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It would be a heck of a shot in the dark, wouldn't it? | |
| It sure would. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That would be crazy. | |
| I don't think it could. | ||
| You absolutely scared the life out of me when I turned the radio on and there you were reading about that story. | ||
| Well, so then that portion of that fax then I think at this point can be revealed or at least Keith can take the black away from just that portion. | ||
| My God, we've had that posted up on the website now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I was the one that, at his request, actually went someplace and faxed it off to you. | |
| Do you recall the date that you faxed that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, it was, geez, it was February, something? | |
| I think it was back that far. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It was quite some time ago. | |
| The similarities in what he described would occur and what has just occurred are chances of that being random, one in a billion or something. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It certainly seems like it. | |
| it never ceases to make the hair stand up on my arms when he would tell me something and then a few days later that it would would actually happen i do you think he is No, I think he has been either captured or unfortunately I think he may have been killed. | ||
| I know or I feel that as close as he had gotten to my family that he would have given us some information just to say that he was safe, just to say that he wasn't going to be, as he called it, endangering us any longer. | ||
| And if Martin, if you're out there, please contact somebody, let me know. | ||
| But I don't think he is. | ||
| And that's why I've faxed you several times, because he and I had talked in the last few weeks before he disappeared entirely about trying to write out a lot of his information and get it out into the public because he was starting to feel that he wasn't safe any longer and that he was endangering me and my family. | ||
| And I told him I believe that the, and I still believe that the only route to safety open to him was absolutely going public with everything he knew. | ||
| And I'm afraid that might have been what caused these problems with him, his disappearance. | ||
| Anything else you want to get on the air? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's just amazing to me that these things have happened and there's so much more. | |
| I wish I had information that I could give you that could help. | ||
| All right. | ||
| If he's in touch with you, please be in touch with me right away. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, I will. | |
| All right. | ||
| In the meantime, I hope that we're not breaking a confidence by what we just did. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't think so. | |
| I know that he knew how I felt about going public, and we talked about it, and that he knew that if ever we were out of touch, that I was going to contact you and send information to you or give what information I could. | ||
| Well, this scares the hell out of me, too. | ||
| So that makes two of us. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You bet. | |
| Take care. | ||
| So, I don't know if Keith heard all of this, but if you did, Keith, go back to the first facts and unblock the portion that we just discussed, and I will forward to you, Keith, the story that I just read to you from CAUSE. | ||
| A little too much coincidence for my tastes, thank you. | ||
| East of the Rockies, you're on the air. | ||
| Good morning. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hi, Ert. | |
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Charles from Tampa. | |
| Hi, Charles. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| Too weird, frankly. | ||
| That one really blows my mind. | ||
|
unidentified
|
When I read those faxes on the website, it, I mean, a lot of times what they say isn't weird, but I don't know. | |
| They just make me feel like I'm through the looking glass somehow. | ||
| Through the looking glass. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, we're going to pull the black portion off of this and go ahead and include it, but there is no way in my way of thinking that this fellow could have called what I just read no way. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, and it's, I don't know, I think about some of the other things in those faxes. | |
| I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Things I don't really want to be true. | |
| I know. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I wish this hadn't happened. | ||
| I appreciate your call, sir. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I want to read this one more time. | ||
| I read this earlier tonight. | ||
| It's a lighter moment. | ||
| We need some lighter moments. | ||
| Seattle, Washington. | ||
| When a man attempted to siphon gasoline from a motorhome parked on a Seattle street, he got much more than he bargained for. | ||
| Police arrived at the scene to find an ill man curled up in a fetal position next to a motorhome near some spilled sewage. | ||
| A police spokesman said the man admitted to trying to steal gasoline and plugged his hose into the motorhome sewage tank by mistake. | ||
| You can kind of draw a mental picture on that one. | ||
| The owner of the motorhome declined to press charges, saying that it was the biggest laugh that he'd had in years. | ||
| Now, the whole thing conjures up a bit of a mental picture, doesn't it? | ||
| You can see him approaching the motorhome, stealthily approaching the motorhome, opening what he thinks is the gas tank, taking, no doubt, his little siphon hose and putting it in until it connected with some sort of matter. | ||
| And then, well, you know how it goes, right? | ||
| You've got to get the gas flowing. | ||
| East of the Rockies, you're on the air. | ||
| Hello. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How you doing? | |
| Like he was trying to commit suicide. | ||
| So I'm curious, with the technology we have as far as the pictures on Sardonia region. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, we've got DOT satellites that are capable of reading the newspaper highlights. | |
| You've got it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wouldn't it seem feasible that we could send a satellite like such? | |
| To Mars? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| As a matter of fact, I would ask, if we are going to spend so much money as to send a satellite to Mars, not like the Russians are going to grab it or anything, why not include something with that capability and settle all questions? | ||
| We could literally almost look at grains of sand. | ||
| I mean, the military does claim that they can read a license plate from space. | ||
| No higher an orbit, frankly, than we are in now on Mars. | ||
| And as a matter of fact, with less atmospheric disturbance. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And quite a bit less pollution at that. | |
| Absolutely. | ||
| An occasional sandstorm, but basically when it's quiet, it's crystal clear. | ||
| There's not enough atmosphere to make it otherwise. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, it just seems like it's, I don't know. | |
| I hear you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
More bureaucracy at work. | |
| I absolutely hear you. | ||
| Sewage side. | ||
| Goodbye. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Have a great night. | |
| Yeah, you too. | ||
| See you later. | ||
| Sewage side. | ||
| West of the Rockies, you're on the air. | ||
| Hi. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, my name's Sam. | |
| Sam? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Okay, Sam, where are you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm in Linwood, Washington. | |
| And how will you illuminate us this morning? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I work for a company called Textron. | |
| Textron? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I go around and do resets in all the Fred Meyer stores in the Northwest. | |
| I'm sorry, you do what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Resets, change out old product to new product for my company at the Fred Meyer stores here in the state of Washington. | |
| Okay, I see. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I've been having to do a lot of work over in eastern Washington in the last three months. | |
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I've been noticing lately, as I've been going over the Snoquome Pass, which is I-90 Interstate, and there are a lot of military vehicles, big semi-trucks, and a lot of Humvee-style military vehicles. | |
| What do you think's going on? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, none of them have any markings of any sort. | |
| That's the one thing I found real fishy about them. | ||
| This last time, just this last week, I was over there, and this last Monday, hold it, yeah, just this following last Monday, I came across a good-sized convoy. | ||
| In my return trip over, I ran into another convoy with a bunch of looked like armor personnel carriers on these big semis. | ||
| And just today, coming out of Tacoma, Washington, I ran into another big convoy with no markings on it, and it was all field trucks. | ||
| What do you imagine that all this military hardware moving about is for? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I couldn't don't really know. | |
| All military hardware. | ||
| Your best guess. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I've been listening to you for a few years, and now you're always talking about secret government agencies with equipment and stuff. | |
| I thought, well, maybe this might be one of those. | ||
| But I was just kind of... | ||
| I mean, to do what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| Yeah, I don't know either. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was just wondering if anybody out there might have an idea what might be going on. | |
| Perhaps they are preparing to seize Spokane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know about that. | |
| I mean, what would they do with it? | ||
| Let's say they took Spokane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, they weren't even heading that way. | |
| They were heading towards Seattle. | ||
| Seattle? | ||
| Oh, well, then. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They were heading west. | |
| Well, then, Seattle, that's even a juicier target. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, I don't see why they would need to do that since the Seattle area here has quite a few different military installations, and Everett has a major naval port. | |
| So why would they need to take over Seattle? | ||
| Well, maybe somebody in Seattle can cool us in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| I was just calling to see if anybody out there would have any ideas. | ||
| I've just been kind of curious. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Well, let's see what they say. | ||
| I wonder what they would do with Seattle. | ||
| If our military had complete control of Seattle, what would they do? | ||
| They'd probably turn the space needle into a military weapon. | ||
| Well, listen, I want to take a moment out as we close out the show of this hour in New York City to once again say thank you to everybody in New York City for making Coast to Coast A.M. in one book. | ||
| We call it a book, a survey period. | ||
| One survey period. | ||
| Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| number one in the Big Apple W A B Z my childhood Now I'm on it. | ||
| And now I'm number one. | ||
| So thank you, New Yorkers, and actually people in the western half of the entire country, because that's about where you can hear WABC. | ||
| This is Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| I'm Art Bell. |
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