Barbara Marx Hubbard, futurist and "potentialist," counters Art Bell’s grim trends—like Antarctica’s Larson B ice shelf collapse and fisteria pollution—with optimism rooted in women’s evolving consciousness, renewable energy, and 44 million U.S. "cultural creatives" driving synergy over dogma. She rejects militaristic space stagnation, framing JFK’s moon initiative as lost progress, and critiques institutional religion’s role in conflict while embracing evolutionary metaphors like "planetary Pentecost." Callers debate divine intelligence, conscious awakening, and UFO warnings (e.g., the "Wave Rider" and RAF-tracked triangular craft at 24,000 mph), but Hubbard insists humanity’s crises stem from autopilot reliance, not inherent flaws. Collective attunement to deeper reality, she argues, could shift planetary energy toward unity—despite wars, starvation, and suppressed tech like antimatter devices. [Automatically generated summary]
Somebody called me in the first hour and said, how's your dash, Art?
I said, my dash?
She said, yeah, you know, when you go to a graveyard and you look on a tombstone, it says, born in so-and-so and died in so-and-so.
And in the middle, there's a dash.
He said, that's your life.
How's your dash?
I said, fine.
So we will dash forward with Barbara Marks Hubbard in a moment.
She wrote a book called The Revelation, The Hunger of Eve, The Evolutionary Journey and Conscious Evolution, Awakening the Power of Our Social Potential.
I'm not exactly sure what all that means, but I think basically she is bullish on America and the world and the human race.
And it'll be interesting because she wrote a book basically based on current trends, projecting a positive future, which is more or less opposite of what I wrote, The Quickening, which based on future, or rather current trends, draws a probable dim outlook for the future.
She is a futurist, so we'll talk with her in a moment.
I do have an announcement I would like to make.
And it is that the surveys are beginning to come in.
The radio surveys, you know, they survey radio like they do television.
And guess what?
We are once again number one in Los Angeles.
I'll say more about that next hour when we're on in L.A. But the big ever-so-pleasant personal surprise for me is that we had an opportunity, I don't know, about four or five months ago to go on WABC in New York and sort of fill in a spot for about six weeks, I think it was going to be.
And guess what, folks?
unidentified
Surveys in, and number one, we're number one in New York City.
I would consider the next step in human evolution to be an evolution of consciousness and capacity, which would lead to the possibility of us becoming an actual universal species.
And the next year, 1970, we had the first Earth Day.
So the environmental movement woke up when we saw ourselves from space, and we recognized we're a limited, finite system, and we have to conserve here.
We have to stop growth here.
But at the very same time, although we haven't been back to the moon, nonetheless, we have now a space program, and we realize there are materials of a thousand Earths in the moon and the asteroid.
Does it to you make sense, Barbara, that we went to the moon so long ago and have not been back, have not put a man back even on the moon, much less to Mars?
I do, and I'm very, very saddened by it because I feel that we are naturally both an Earth species and a space species, and that that step into space there in the Apollo program was the physical evolution of our species.
And I mean physically, we have the capability of leaving this biosphere, of developing habitats in space, of getting energy from space.
And what that would mean is we have an Earth space or open system environment, which is ultimately not limited at all.
And I think by, you know, if we don't blow ourselves up or have a total collapse of our environment, that by the third millennium we'll be a solar system species.
And by the fourth millennium, we'll be a galactic species.
It's called Cosmic Selection and Conscious Evolution.
And what he says is that when a species gets technologically competent, that is a very dangerous period because we're learning how matter works.
The atom, the brain.
But we're still in a self-centered or infantile state of consciousness.
Now, he says that some scientists believe that the reason we've never actually encountered another high technology species is because none of them made it through this dangerous period.
Because when you have your high technology, you can destroy yourself.
But at the same time, if you could evolve in consciousness and use that technology constructively, you could restore the earth and you could free people from hunger and disease and you could explore the universe.
So the potential is that we could do that.
Whether or not we will do that depends on countless different acts.
In other words, we have the opportunity to either spread our wings and leave Earth and become a type 1, or the other potential is to destroy ourselves either environmentally or with Element 92 or whatever.
Well, you see, instead of doing Star Worlds, we did focus on Star Wars.
We have a militaristic mindset.
And instead of developing a global cooperative space program, we continued with the military.
And nobody has given, since John F. Kennedy, there hasn't been an imaginative enough leader to say to the human race, if we do this, we're going to have new wealth, new resources, new knowledge.
When Kennedy said it, said we're going to go to the moon, then we had a goal and we all pushed toward it, and by God, we did it.
But I frequently wonder, a lot of conspiratorialists, Barbara, wonder, and I sometimes wonder with them, we did go to the moon.
And I wonder if there's something that we know about the moon or Mars or space travel in general that is preventing us from continuing, something we as common folk don't know about.
Oh, listen, in the estuaries off North Carolina, there's something called fisteria, which puts sores on fish and now is beginning to make human beings sick.
It's all the way up into the North Atlantic.
I could go on and on and on.
Where do you see the positive movement for change in that area?
Yes, and you see, it's interesting because one of the ways I look at a problem is as an evolutionary driver.
You either respond to it or you go extinct.
Now, it's very possible that we will not respond to this and our species will self-destruct.
But here's the positive potential in it.
Because the crisis is so real, it might be great enough for us to respond at the scale that would make it, that would, the result of that would be that we would understand how ecologies work.
However, in the third world, I've done quite a bit of travel.
And the third world is just beginning to crank up to the industrial age.
China, for example, is if you ever got a chance to see what's going on in communist China, it would scare you to death, the amount of economic activity going on.
And the rest of the world wants what we have.
And I don't blame them.
But to get what we have, they are going to have to have the same kind of industrial revolution that we have had.
What I see happening is that the fossil fuel kings and czars are not allowing the exploration of these new energy sources.
In fact, they're suppressing them until all of the fossil fuel is probably, in all probability, very nearly gone.
And that is exactly what's happening.
Now, people talk a lot about zero-point energy and all the rest of it.
And I say to them, and they have these conferences, I say, even just supply me with any evidence, a little toy that is over unity, a little toy, you know, like the energizer bunny that would outdo the energizer bunny.
But the renewable sources of energy and energy conservation, you know the whole scenario of Amory Lovins, that you can save more through energy conservation than you can through trying to make new sources of energy.
So we've got the ideas for the scenarios, but it's being blocked by the interests in the large corporations and the question is is there enough citizen intelligence to respond to this or not?
And what I'm saying is let's look at possible plausible scenarios.
And right after, right in the 70s we used to call it building new worlds on this earth, building new worlds in space.
And we had conferences where we brought all the different interests together in a big wheel-shaped environment in universities.
And we asked people to look at goals, needs, and resources in the light of our new potentials.
Regarding our societal direction, and she thinks that we can still get things going in the right direction.
We'll talk to her more about that.
Fascinating topic.
I'm really on the other side of the argument.
That should make it an interesting interview.
unidentified
Thank you.
From the Kingdom of Nye, across the country, around the world, and throughout the universe, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell on the CBC Radio Network.
Well, I see everybody's getting it, almost everybody.
During the process of construction of this thing in my backyard, I asked people to try and guess what it was.
It was a test.
It was like a Roshak test, you know.
What is this developing thing in Art's backyard?
And people would say, well, it's a bomb shelter.
Now, maybe they're commenting on what they think my psychological makeup is.
I don't know.
Other people said it's a doghouse.
Other people guessed that it was every manner of thing other than what it actually is.
Now, in its completed stage, it's obviously a barbecue.
And a pretty spiffy one at that.
But it was kind of a test that a lot of people failed.
And so then, how are we to look at ruins on Mars that may be a half million years old, hardly with the average eye, now do you see why I did what I did?
Everybody just about got it wrong until it was almost complete or tonight when everybody can look at it and say, aha, yes, of course it's a barbecue.
Otherwise, I got every form of imagined thing you could possibly think about as a sort of a test.
And I would say, more than not, people failed it.
And so if we can't determine what is a barbecue going up in somebody's backyard, how are we to judge ruins and faces and pyramids on Mars?
And I think the answer is we can't.
We are not educated to understand what we are looking at.
And with that, back to Barbara Marks-Hubbard.
Barbara, it is a very interesting thing that's going on right now with regard to Mars.
We've got a spacecraft going around, and there is a great big debate about whether what it's seeing up there is natural or not.
And the implications, of course, for humanity, if this was not natural stuff, very significant implications.
It would mean there have been others that have traversed this area before or a previous civilization that puts this stuff up there, who knows.
But it's a raging debate, and it's very interesting to see the way people react.
You know, my thesis here is we should grow up and find out.
And, you know, we can speculate, but the only way we're going to really know is if we ourselves develop our space capacities, if we become extraterrestrials ourselves and see what's actually possible.
And I think that that would be the best way of finding out.
There's a lot of speculation that you can only go so far with.
But statistically, we believe that we are probably not alone in this universe.
I would like to read you something that I got just tonight.
And let me read this and read it for everybody.
This is from the Royal Air Force.
This is an absolutely true current story.
The RAF has tracked a UFO as big as a battleship off the coast of Britain.
Military sources revealed yesterday.
They said the massive craft was tracked flying in a zigzag pattern, mind you, at 17,000 miles per hour over the North Sea.
It then accelerated to 24,000 miles per hour and zoomed off toward the Atlantic.
The Dutch Air Force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object, were unable to keep up, it is claimed.
No kidding.
24,000 miles an hour.
RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object spotted by the Ministry of Defense long-range listening station on Philandes Moor in North Yorkshire.
Quote, it was definitely under control, judging by the various maneuvers executed, said a military source.
It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship or about 900 feet long.
Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts around the world who will examine how to exploit, listen to this, will examine how to exploit space for military purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire in June.
Other tapes of that same UFO thought to have been made during the last two years are being withheld because they give too much information about the radar base's scanning ability.
So Barbara, there you are.
This is an absolute report of something blazing through our atmosphere.
They call them fast walkers at 24,000 miles an hour.
And the only interest they have in it is military application.
These are people whose own values are shifting to, let's say, more partnership, nonviolence, sustainability, planetary consciousness.
And it's the fastest growing subculture in the United States.
Paul Ray is a social analyst.
It was published by the Institute of Noetic Sciences and the Petzer Foundation.
And the thought I have is that while the dominant mindset is still consumption and defense and control, there is emerging millions and millions of people who are not yet in power, but who exist in all fields whose consciousness would be, I would say, more of a cooperative, planetary, spiritually based consciousness.
As a student of evolution, that is looking at long-range evolution, the formation, the Big Bang, the formation of Earth, life, animal life, human life, and the rise of human culture out of that.
The immense, magnificent, emerging potentials within the system.
This philosopher Sri Arabindo said, if you had looked at a rock on the early Earth, and someone had said to that rock, you're going to get up and walk, you're going to get up and talk, you're going to fly to the moon, that the emergent properties before life on earth were, in fact, life and animal life and human life and so forth.
So what I'm saying is the emergent properties in this current human condition are equally great as to the emergent properties of that rock.
And I see the emergent properties in our species are appearing all over the place, but they're not yet powerful.
But neither were the mammals at the time of the dinosaur.
Evolution creates newness.
And when you get a critical catastrophic situation like we're in, there are more and more innovations.
And I think the way the system will evolve is by the connecting and the further integration and communication of positive options.
That's the approach I'm using in my work, in my book, Conscious Evolution.
That's the approach.
We are developing a website called co-creation.org.
Well, right now it's just beginning, but we're asking people to put their projects in health, education, economics, science, and technology that is leading to a sustainable, humane, and regenerative world.
And then our next step, which we're just about starting, is to create a college of knowledge.
These would be key individuals in every one of the major fields who know the breakthroughs and the social innovations in their field.
And we want to collect the positive social innovations such that we can begin to see the trend and the pattern of the potential of our species.
Now, when you see the potential, it doesn't mean it's obviously going to happen.
But you know that if you see a possibility, you're more likely to move toward it than if you don't see that possibility.
It was about John Wayne, and he was flying across the Pacific Ocean.
He was an airline pilot, one of the old piston-engine airplanes, right?
Now, they had something called the point of no return.
And that simply meant that you had traversed enough of the Pacific Ocean, and a little red light would come on on a panel, and it would tell you that you now no longer have enough fuel to return from whence you came.
You must, no matter what happens, you must go forward, right?
Because you have less than half of your fuel left.
The point of no return, it's called.
Now, when I look at present social trends and economic trends and environmental trends, I think that humanity's little red light came on some time ago.
And now, that doesn't mean that I think the end of the world is coming, but I think there is going to be a very drastic change.
And beyond that, I'm not a prophet, so I wouldn't endeavor to say what that change is going to be, but I think that our point of no return has been passed.
There has to be, one way or another, a radical change.
And either it will be violent, destructive and it could lead to the extinction of the human species, or if we become what I call conscious of our evolutionary potential, it could be gentle, peaceful, and leading to an immeasurable future.
And you see, it's so important what people think, because if you think something's possible, you start to move in that direction.
What I think is very dangerous is the idea that there is no hope, the idea that we're all inevitably going to go down, either economically or environmentally, because that cuts motivation to do anything about it.
And I think that the way the mass media communicates the news, they're so much more sensitive to breakdown than breakthrough, that people are not equally aware of their options.
That's all I'm saying.
And I want to also make the point about the evolution of consciousness.
There's a wonderful book, kind of text that was written many years ago called Cosmic Consciousness by Dr. Buck, B-U-C-K-E.
And he points out that there was sentient consciousness with the cells.
Then there was animal consciousness with multicellular life.
And then there was self-consciousness with humans.
And about 3,000, 2,000 years ago, there was a breakthrough in what he called cosmic consciousness.
And that would be people like Buddha and Jesus and Muhammad.
And then gradually an acceleration of numbers of people whose consciousness is at the next level.
Now, you have to imagine that when self-consciousness came in in the human world, in the animal world, it was a breakthrough.
think there's a rise of a more holistic consciousness that's emerging out of evolution and that's where the real hope lies um I
Your words are, they sound so good, but we're dealing with changes that how are these newly conscious people, for example, going to affect all the oil consortiums that are going to continue to pump oil and dig in coal until it's finally just about all gone?
I mean, I have, I'm a friend of Amory and Hunter Lovins up there at the Rocky Mountain Institute, and they're going around to corporations and governments and selling the idea of energy conservation.
I know that there are many, many people who are working on solar energy now, who are moving towards recycling.
I mean, there's a movement in the other direction as well.
Now, I don't know which way it will go.
I don't know which way it will go, Art, but I think we have to keep our options in front of us because basically people are survival oriented.
And I don't think we really want to destroy the whole planet.
And eventually we have to have a political change which is going to regulate these kinds of things and give incentives to the more positive.
And I think I wanted to get back to the idea of the awakening of women.
What's happening, this is my theory here, that as we are going to live longer lives and have fewer children, that energy of procreation and reproduction is moving in women towards the energy of self-expression, life purpose, meaningful work.
And I say we're moving from procreation to co-creation.
It would be a good place to try it out because I think the positive side of the population crisis is the liberation of the creativity of women and men to evolve rather than reproduce and to do the work needed for the world.
Now, I'm a woman who has had both experiences.
I had my children, but in my mid-30s, after the five children, I found that I had another purpose.
And I began to feel my purpose was as a communicator, to try to find out what's positive.
And what I'm saying with women, and men as well, but speaking of women, that the younger women and now the older women like myself are being turned on by a deep desire to create, to express, and it's loving at its core.
It's a loving energy.
It is not an angry energy.
It's a maternal energy at the next level.
And I think that the awakening of feminine creativity, I call it the feminine co-creator, is one of the greatest untapped forces on earth.
but in the end, it's going to mean that women have got to turn their attention from creation of life to creation of these energies, uh, creative energies that you're talking about.
So, I mean, it's not a major issue with most people, but here's what I do believe.
I think there is a subtle pessimism, or not so subtle, that you particularly see it in the young people.
The sense that there isn't opportunity, that there's nothing to live for, that they're not it, is causing an almost insane, self-destructive strand running through them because there doesn't seem to be a future that is worth having.
And it might very well look that way if you didn't see that we're going through a quantum change.
And in order for anybody to have hope, I think they have to look ahead and we're not given much chance to do that.
But here's what I see when I look ahead as a possibility.
I see that we're going to stabilize in a more unitive consciousness.
Unitive consciousness means you feel connected to the whole.
I think that we're going to move towards alternative healing, towards awareness of what we already are, of diet, of not smoking, of exercise, leading to healing and eventually to self-generation and life extension.
I think that the internet and the global intelligence system is going to increase our intelligence to a radical degree.
I think that we're going to be able to live not only on this Earth but in the solar system, and that we'll have space habitats, energy, and eventually we will build a new environment in space, much like the biosphere was built on this Earth.
I think the old, that individualism as separate and self-centered, alienated, that may come to an end.
But the next stage of individualism that I've discovered in my own life and in many other people's life is when you find what your life purpose is and find out how to co-operate and co-create, you become more unique, more individual through your participation in the whole rather than through your separation from it.
And the word Bucky Fuller and others used is the word called synergy.
And synergy is the way nature has evolved.
You know, atoms form molecules, molecules form cells, multi-cells.
Now, when you join two or more in a way that each person can do more by joining, that's synergy.
And you create something greater than you are when you're separate.
With what you have said, this question makes sense.
Do you, Barbara, this is by facts from Massachusetts, do you believe that the new world order, as envisioned by George Bush, will eventually create a stable political and economic order worldwide?
Well, I do believe that there needs to be a higher order, but I think it's going to come from a higher level of self-government than from anything imposed by some controlling system.
He makes the point that he's one of the greatest human problems is the way we are organized.
Our organizational structures, our command and control.
They are bureaucratic and hierarchical, and they are causing the destruction of the environment and the destruction of really human well-being.
And he has created the chaortic alliance, the word for chaos and order, to develop systems that empower people rather than control people.
and I'm working with him on a couple of projects.
He's structuring it in so that power does not get centralized.
Now, there's a big movement afoot at repatterning organizations.
You know, Peter Sengy calls it the learning organization.
There's entrepreneurship, there's participatory management, and they're finding that when people are not controlled, but when they become more self-empowered, everything improves.
So I think that the New World Order is not an order imposed on us, but it's a deeper democracy which allows us to be more self-organizing and creative.
I recently read an assessment of the Internet that you and I should toy with a little bit.
On the one hand, you might believe the Internet will save us all, that it will bring us together and save us all in some way.
Or you might believe that the Internet will create, in effect, worldwide, the top 10 ideas.
That in Bangladesh, in India, in Moscow, we'll all be thinking roughly the same thing because we'll all have the same sort of input.
This will actually stifle the process of evolution rather than hastening it.
It will stifle it because without individual entrepreneurism going on, new ideas are less likely to spring up and we're more likely to have the current top ten ideas thought by everybody.
And everybody and anybody can get a way of publishing their material, of finding out information.
It can't be controlled.
Certainly I've read that there is some possibility that the commercial interests will be able eventually to control it, but I don't really think so, Art.
I think that it's not possible for it to be controlled.
And the type of communications that are developing now are so refined.
I think what's happening, Peter Russell said it, it's a global brain.
I think everyone is going to have access to it.
And it's a huge empowerment of the individual.
But Internet alone won't do it.
There has to be an evolution of consciousness.
There has to be a deepening of, you might say a very simple thing, of our ability to love one another.
Thank you, Art, because, you see, we also know that as you think, so you act, and as you act, so the world becomes.
So it's very important that we think realistically what our positive options are, and that more and more of us are motivated to act on our own potential.
And I don't really need to sit here and document them all.
You know what they are.
We have starvation in a large part of the world.
We have all of these problems in the third world.
And what I need to understand to embrace the possibility of what you say we can be is how we are going to handle bringing the third world into this century or the next millennium for that matter without destroying our environment.
Well, I just wanted to say something on the subject of wars.
I remember hearing Dr. Robert Mueller, who was Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations, pointing out that although there still are wars, we have finally said as a human species, war is not the best way.
War is not glamorous.
War is not noble, heroic, and good.
We have seen war as a tragedy.
Only, you know, I guess this really started with the First World War.
Up to that time, war was considered heroic.
Look at the Civil War, the horror of the Civil War, and yet they marched proudly in, you know?
But there is a very, very strong desire not to go to war on the I mean we didn't finally, or this last time.
And I don't know if you believe in the kind of initiatives of the people's power of prayer, the millions of people joining together to try to stop it, as well as many political efforts.
There was a huge effort in the recent Iraqi crisis to stop it.
And I think we have a new attitude, which is that war and violence itself is not the way, even though we're still violent.
I was part of something called the Season for Nonviolence, where millions of people are now trying to see how can we learn to be nonviolent.
So I'm not saying that that was good, that was terrible, but I do think there is still, ever since the nuclear weapons came in, a realization on the part of the masses of humanity that war is too destructive.
And we haven't gotten out of it yet.
No, we're not.
But we can't have a third world war, and we haven't had a nuclear war yet.
But there are many people who believe that the balance that was achieved during the Cold War years, the mutual assured destruction scenario that was operative then had us in a lot safer condition than we are presently with Russia on the verge of economic and social collapse and all those nuclear weapons.
And I would like to see that we could see that our future could be an expansion of the human species into space and the restoration of the Earth and the freeing of people from hunger and want.
And Bernard Gimbel brought Hap Arnold, who subsequently was the head of the Air Force, who had a missing piece of a toy train.
And my father gave Hap Arnold the piece of train that he needed, became a good friend of my father's, and my father got to know the whole set of generals, Eisenhower, Marshall, Bradley, General Smith, and they became godfathers of my half-brothers.
So that we had all the five-star generals of the Second World War, basically godfathers in my family, and they were my father's dearest friends.
And when I was about 22 years old, I was taken to the White House to meet President Eisenhower when he was just made president.
And I'll never forget it.
I had this question that arose when we dropped the bomb on Japan.
And the question was, what is the meaning of this power that's good?
So when I was taken to see President Eisenhower, I said, Mr. President, I have a question for you.
And he said, yes, young lady.
And the question was, what is the meaning of our power that's good?
Where are we going?
And he looked so shocked, and he shook his head, and he said, I don't know.
And that's when, as a young woman, it occurred to me, well, we better find out.
Because we have all this power and we don't have an attractive goal, an attractive vision.
And where there is no vision, people perish.
And I think a lot of the perishing you're talking about is because of the lack of an evolutionary vision that could show us the meaning of our power is really the evolution and transformation of humanity.
Art, please ask Barbara to explain the scenario where we destroy ourselves, meaning, I gather, losing the technological ability to get off Earth.
I particularly wonder how we could do this environmentally.
In other words, what if it comes to a choice, Barbara, where, yes, we have to get off Earth, I believe we do, but there is such a big environmental price to pay to get off Earth that it would, in effect, destroy us to do so?
I knew Professor Gerard O'Neill, who was a Princeton professor, and Ted Taylor, and what they were all talking about is establishing a non-terrestrial resource base where you would get a foothold, and then you would start using non-terrestrial resources in space, from space, and you would not be constantly even having to bring things back to Earth.
In fact, you would, once you're established there, you become using the non-terrestrial both energy and resources, and you become a resource to Earth rather than taking something from Earth.
Well, I think that all the world's religions were founded by individuals who had and expressed a deep higher quality of being, which I consider to be the next stage of evolution.
I think it's true of every great religion, that the individual founders and the people who you might say are the mystics and the people who've had direct experience, whether it be a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Jewish, a Christian, a Muslim tradition, when they've had the direct experience within that tradition, I think they are a beneficent force.
Where religion becomes destructive is when it becomes dogmatized, institutionalized, and fundamentalist in which it says only mine is right.
Now when that happens, it's destructive.
But I don't call that spiritual and I don't call that religious.
And organized religion in its dogmatic, institutionalized form has probably caused more problems on earth than anything else.
However, the deeper impulse within those religions is good.
And I think what's happening now is that people who are whatever faith we come from, that what we're realizing is we have to be responsible ourselves, not whether we're Jews, Christians, or Muslims, but are we good human beings?
And his contention is that we are, of course, mortal beings whose basic instinctual fear of death can only be satisfied by some sort of realization that there is more to all of this than our mortal lives,
that we go on in some way after our physical death, and that our brain, through the process of evolution, has forced us into this belief.
Well, you know, there's a very interesting thought now coming up, which is that consciousness is not limited to the brain.
That consciousness is even more than that.
That consciousness is the fundamental nature of reality, and that matter and energy comes up out of consciousness.
The other view is that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of matter.
But the newer view, and in some respects the more ancient view, is that the fundamental, let's say the Buddhists would call it the void, or the field of all possibilities, has within it fullness,
is pure consciousness, and that the universe has emerged out of consciousness, and what's happened is that the humans, as we become more complex, or all life becomes more complex, become more conscious of consciousness.
We are aware that we are aware.
That's what Homo sapiens sapiens means.
And in my book, Conscious Evolution, I'm assuming that that consciousness that's aware that it knows is going to become ever more aware of the processes that are creating us, the ecologies, the atoms, the genes, the brains, and so forth, so that we can become co-evolutionary.
And I think, this is what Bucky Fuller said, that our minds are designed to know the design of nature.
And as we learn the design of nature, we become ever more abundant because nature itself is incredibly abundant, particularly if you think of it the solar system and universal scale.
And if some awful things even still do happen, if we aren't able to make this huge shift in our consciousness in time for some of the things to come down, still the work that we do now will provide outposts, if you will.
Just real quickly, I want to tell you, my brother died like a year ago, and he had this, I was going through his closet finally after my mother allowed us to.
He had this shirt, black and white shirt, black with white lettering, and all it said on it was, correct the past to protect the future.
And that's what I wanted to tell you really quickly about something, too.
I don't mean I wanted to ask her about that, but about a week ago, this fool that you had on the radio station, he said something about Houston when you played his voice backwards.
You know, there's a very wonderful image I mentioned in my book, Conscious Evolution.
It's a metamorphosis of a caterpillar to a butterfly.
Let me tell you this real quickly.
When a caterpillar starts to create its cocoon, in the caterpillar there are these little imaginal discs that hold the image of the butterfly.
And the immune system of the caterpillar recognizes these discs as foreign and tries to destroy them.
But the discs keep replicating until they become imaginal cells.
And the cells connect, and the immune system of the caterpillar surrenders, and actually the new cells eat up the substance of the caterpillar and becomes the butterfly.
Now, I think the assassinations of people like the Kennedys, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and many great people of the past is because they were imaginal discs.
They represented the emerging societal butterfly, and they were destroyed by the limitations of the caterpillar.
However, if it is true that there are 44 million people in the U.S. whose consciousness is becoming more planetary and more connected, that's like we're becoming imaginal selves.
And we are holding, we collectively are holding the image of a new possibility.
It comes from Paul Rays, and he did a study of integral culture transformational values in the U.S. You can get it from the Institute of Noetic Sciences in Sausalito, California.
Okay, suppose you were standing at the end of the assembly line for General Motors in Michigan, and a Cadillac came off a line with so many thousands of parts, and everything all placed together so that the car was sitting there?
Would you say at that moment as reflective, intelligent being that the assembly line created the Cadillac?
I believe there's a transcendent designing intelligence that is animating everything and that evolution is a process whereby that intelligence manifests itself.
unidentified
But you think, Barbara, that we collectively can become the intelligent being, and you're not willing to submit yourself to an all-and-mighty, powerful God.
That's your problem, Barbara.
You have lost hope because your hope is placed in mankind, and you see how mankind is falling, Barbara.
I believe we were created by a magnificent process of creation, and that in our deepest essence, that that process of creation, what you call that almighty supreme reality, is reflected in us through us.
I don't think there I'm not either a creationist nor am I a Darwinian evolutionist.
I'm a post-Darwinian, which means I believe that there is a designing, patterning, implicate order, you might say, in evolution that is transcendent.
Now, I don't call it an anthropomorphic God, but I do believe that there is an intentionality and direction that has been called God, and that we experience as spirit, we experience it as love, and that there is a higher power of which we are all an expression.
And I bet I know the caller's response to that, so go ahead and make it, caller.
unidentified
Well, I'd love to respond, Art.
The problem with your belief, Art and Barbara's, is that y'all don't want to believe that you're in a sin nature and that you need a supreme being to pay for your sins and to bow down and be submissive to that supreme being.
You don't want to do that.
You want to try to rely on yourselves, but you see how man keeps falling.
And man is going to continue to fall until Jesus Christ comes back and sets this world straight.
That's how you are going to be saved.
I'm going to be saved.
That's how the world is going to be saved.
Not through your efforts, Barbara, because you have proven as a human being that you're in a sin nature.
Now, I let that go because I think he was making a very important point with regard to the percentage of people that will always be obstructionist to everything you have said.
Barbara, first I wanted to say my heart really felt very warm happiness for the first time ever in my life, and I'm 55, to hear someone speak and say aloud publicly the things you have, and they are true.
We can travel consciously out in the universe if we dare to question, if we dare to ask for the knowledge, it'll be given, if we dare to experience.
Somebody gave me a bumper sticker about seven years ago up in the mountains, and it said, excuse me, my karma just overran your dogma.
I don't mean it to be sarcastic, but the divisions, as you said, I was raised very, very strict Orthodox, And there was more hatred expressed everywhere I've lived in this country over religious differences, over disputations, which is ridiculous because we're no lower than the highest and we're no higher than the lowest because we can be easy with one thought.
You're one of the spirits that's touching my heart.
Consider this.
I am a principal of the Sundance religion, which is the Native American religion.
We are earth gardeners.
We have been waiting for millennium to be able to pass the information that it is indeed now time for mankind to understand what it means to take care of the earth and to garden the earth.
And we have been turned from our principles of understanding the spirit into a selfishness, a sheep-like condition, as illustrated by one of the gentlemen who called you earlier and talking about being saved.
Barbara, yeah, I wanted to tell you that I find myself admiring you a great deal, particularly in the way that you handled the gentleman who insisted that Jesus Christ would save us.
As a person with a very strong Jewish identity, I found that a bit hard to swallow.
And your response of thanks was wonderful.
Thank you.
And my question is, as a 24-year-old woman in the depressive Gen X kind of state, what do I do?
Well, you are.
My granddaughters are now in their 20s, and I believe that there is a new woman coming forth who has within her the creativity to express her love in her community, in her society, in her world.
And she can choose to have children, and children becomes a vocation.
Or she can choose to give birth to her own life purpose and not have children, and that's also a vocation.
Well, I know that there's also the need for, you know, two incomes in a family, and women obviously want to have equal rights with men, but we don't want to have equal rights on the Titanic.
And your team came up tonight, actually, because in a business I'm involved in, we were talking about creating a vision for your future.
And from your workshop, I realized that everything that I had in my vision has come true.
So it was very exciting to share with people in the group how when you set a vision it really can happen because I'm a testimony to that.
I know we're moving into conscious evolution and Greg Braden was talking about that and I was saying that we were kind of getting our training wheels taken off, that evolution up until this point has been on autopilot.
Is that why maybe we're causing all these crises?
We wake up and access our potential, otherwise we would never, we're getting pushed out of the nest, so to speak?
I think that Mother Earth herself is sending signals to us that we have to become more cooperative, more connected, more aware, and that if we don't, it'll be very serious, just like art says, it's already very serious.
But because these signals from our environment mainly are very dangerous, there is an awakening occurring.
And I read Greg Braden's material, and he certainly indicates there's going to be a whole change in the Earth energies.
And here's a very interesting thought, that as we become more resonant, that is to say more aligned and loving one another, that actually affects the energy of the Earth itself.
unidentified
I believe that.
Absolutely.
I just wanted to thank you so much for being such an amazing inspiration for me all these years and for your marvelous, can I see you starting your piece room on the internet?
Is it perhaps true that the current conditions that we're facing are a consequence of 2,000 years or so of many, many generations reading Christian dogma which says prophesizes the end of the world and that by dealing with time as a reality that the culminating of this millennium, people kind of have it in the back of their minds that time is short and that they're going for all they can get without regard for the future.
It is a good question, and I think the story, the Judeo-Christian story that ended in the Armageddon scenario in the book of Revelation has been very influential in people's thinking.
And I wrote a book called Revelation in which I said that the alternative to Armageddon would be a planetary Pentecost.
It would be a time on earth when millions of people would hear from within in their own language the inner words of spirit.
And I don't think Armageddon is inevitable by any means.
But I do think that that story has had a major influence and that we need to have a new ending to the story.
And the new ending is a new beginning.
I believe that the New Jerusalem is a poetic intuition of the next stage of evolution.
Because I actually believe ultimately we will move beyond the animal body.
We'll move beyond the illusion of separation.
We will be that evolutionary process is going to select for those able to connect to the deeper reality.
About 4.5 on the Richter, not too many miles from you.
Anyway, go ahead, sir.
Well, Guy Lee, I'm in complete agreement.
unidentified
I don't know what to say, but except that this does seem to, I think it has something to do with the electromagnetosphere also, and what being that we are somewhat biochemical transducers of energy.
And this fits right on in with our conscious level.
And I've felt nothing but an enlightenment for the last quickening time here.
My parents spoke of this in 1954.
Told me about it since I was six years old.
And I've been searching basically for the unified field theory in alliance with the, you know, science and spirituality combined.
And if we sit back and just wait for God to do it all, it's a little bit blasphemous and terribly unappreciative to expect more out of this life after being like that.
You know, one of the ways I put it, it's the eighth day of creation.
On the seventh day, God rested.
On the eighth day, humanity has to wake up and see that we've been created to be responsible, but not responsible out of hubris or separation, responsible in alignment with the deeper process of creation or with God.
unidentified
Well, we have to get rid of our egos and great self-esteems.
I believe that there is a divine intelligence, that there's no way that this universe could have emerged with all this beautiful order by random accident.
I believe that it's not accidental.
There's a deeper design, and you can call it God, you can call it higher power, you can call it spirit, you can call it the implicate order of evolution.
But I agree with that, and I feel that we are ever more able to attune to that as we evolve in consciousness.
What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to talk to a fellow named Joe.
Joe is, in fact, a friend of the man who calls himself the wave rider.
We received a total of three very, very, very literate, Articulate communications from somebody who claims to be an affected time traveler.
He calls himself the Wave Rider.
And Joe in Texas, in Austin, Texas, has sent me a fax, and he has included the code words that I might know who I'm speaking to.
I'm not going to tell you what those code words are, but I know that he's the real McCoy.
But before I proceed with what I'm about to do, I think I need to get Joe's permission in effect.
Joe?
Yes.
Joe, because what we are about to discuss, potentially, and if you tell me not to do it, we will not do it, is in the blacked out portion of the facts from the Waverider, I thought I better scare you.
I've already done that.
I better get from you, in effect, permission to discuss what you have written in this facts, because it does reveal a portion of the blacked out part of the Wave Rider's communication.
unidentified
No, I think actually that it's important to do that now.
Keith Rowland, if you are listening, minus name, identification, and so forth, would you please take the WaveRider facts, the one that is relevant that I am about to discuss, and remove the blacked out portion and put it back on the website?
You'll understand why when I read the following.
Art, this is Joe, and I've got a last name, in Austin, Texas, the friend of the Wave Rider.
I just joined your show tonight at 1.30 a.m.
That would be Texas time.
You scared me.
Remember that in the first packs that the Wave Rider sent you in the area blacked out at his request, he warned you about this UFO that you are reporting on tonight.
He told you then that the RAF, Royal Air Force, would send this UFO stuff to the USA.
He said that the RAF would send info and samples of a triangular, listen closely folks, a triangular UFO to our Pentagon.
He also warned that this would somehow lead to the deaths of hundreds of people.
I do not know how this is to happen, but I am worried.
Now, let me read you what I have, all right?
This comes from CAUSE, C-A-U-S.
Dated 27 April 98.
The headline is, 24,000 mile per hour UFO buzzes Britain.
Now listen carefully.
The RAF has tracked a UFO as big as a battleship off the coast of Britain, military sources revealed yesterday.
They said the massive craft was tracked flying a zigzag pattern at 17,000 miles per hour over the North Sea.
It then accelerated to 24,000 miles per hour and zoomed off toward the Atlantic.
The Dutch Air Force also tracked the UFO, but two F-16 fighters scrambled to intercept the object, were unable to keep up, it is claimed.
RAF officials are said to be baffled by the object, spotted by the Ministry of Defense long-range listening station on Flandes Moor in North Yorkshire.
Quote, it was definitely under control, judging by the various maneuvers executed, said a source.
It appeared to be triangular and was around the size of a battleship about 900 feet long.
Radar records of the craft are due to be presented to science and military experts around the world who will examine how to exploit space for military purposes at a conference at RAF College, Cranwell, Lincolnshire in June.
Other tapes of the UFO thought to have been made during the last two years are being withheld because they give too much information about the radar base's scanning ability.
However, military chiefs may release a second series of tapes reported to show 12 UFOs changing shape in mid-flight.
Do you want to update the audience on the situation with the Wave Rider and what you suspect?
unidentified
Well, really what I suspect right now, I'm not certain.
He's disappeared.
He has always contacted me weekly for the period of the last at least a year.
And we've always had an agreement that if he didn't contact me for two to three weeks, then I need to just assume that he was lost and I was to move on.
In the past year, I've spent a lot of time talking with him about his life and actually watching him as he literally travels in time before my eyes has been amazing.
And he is now gone for, I don't know, three weeks or so.
The similarities in what he described would occur and what has just occurred are chances of that being random, one in a billion or something.
unidentified
It certainly seems like it.
it never ceases to make the hair stand up on my arms when he would tell me something and then a few days later that it would would actually happen i do you think he is No, I think he has been either captured or unfortunately I think he may have been killed.
I know or I feel that as close as he had gotten to my family that he would have given us some information just to say that he was safe, just to say that he wasn't going to be, as he called it, endangering us any longer.
And if Martin, if you're out there, please contact somebody, let me know.
But I don't think he is.
And that's why I've faxed you several times, because he and I had talked in the last few weeks before he disappeared entirely about trying to write out a lot of his information and get it out into the public because he was starting to feel that he wasn't safe any longer and that he was endangering me and my family.
And I told him I believe that the, and I still believe that the only route to safety open to him was absolutely going public with everything he knew.
And I'm afraid that might have been what caused these problems with him, his disappearance.
In the meantime, I hope that we're not breaking a confidence by what we just did.
unidentified
I don't think so.
I know that he knew how I felt about going public, and we talked about it, and that he knew that if ever we were out of touch, that I was going to contact you and send information to you or give what information I could.
So, I don't know if Keith heard all of this, but if you did, Keith, go back to the first facts and unblock the portion that we just discussed, and I will forward to you, Keith, the story that I just read to you from CAUSE.
A little too much coincidence for my tastes, thank you.
Yeah, I mean, we're going to pull the black portion off of this and go ahead and include it, but there is no way in my way of thinking that this fellow could have called what I just read no way.
unidentified
No, and it's, I don't know, I think about some of the other things in those faxes.
When a man attempted to siphon gasoline from a motorhome parked on a Seattle street, he got much more than he bargained for.
Police arrived at the scene to find an ill man curled up in a fetal position next to a motorhome near some spilled sewage.
A police spokesman said the man admitted to trying to steal gasoline and plugged his hose into the motorhome sewage tank by mistake.
You can kind of draw a mental picture on that one.
The owner of the motorhome declined to press charges, saying that it was the biggest laugh that he'd had in years.
Now, the whole thing conjures up a bit of a mental picture, doesn't it?
You can see him approaching the motorhome, stealthily approaching the motorhome, opening what he thinks is the gas tank, taking, no doubt, his little siphon hose and putting it in until it connected with some sort of matter.
And then, well, you know how it goes, right?
You've got to get the gas flowing.
East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
Hello.
unidentified
How you doing?
Like he was trying to commit suicide.
So I'm curious, with the technology we have as far as the pictures on Sardonia region.
As a matter of fact, I would ask, if we are going to spend so much money as to send a satellite to Mars, not like the Russians are going to grab it or anything, why not include something with that capability and settle all questions?
We could literally almost look at grains of sand.
I mean, the military does claim that they can read a license plate from space.
No higher an orbit, frankly, than we are in now on Mars.
And as a matter of fact, with less atmospheric disturbance.
And I've been noticing lately, as I've been going over the Snoquome Pass, which is I-90 Interstate, and there are a lot of military vehicles, big semi-trucks, and a lot of Humvee-style military vehicles.
That's the one thing I found real fishy about them.
This last time, just this last week, I was over there, and this last Monday, hold it, yeah, just this following last Monday, I came across a good-sized convoy.
In my return trip over, I ran into another convoy with a bunch of looked like armor personnel carriers on these big semis.
And just today, coming out of Tacoma, Washington, I ran into another big convoy with no markings on it, and it was all field trucks.
Well, then, Seattle, that's even a juicier target.
unidentified
Well, I don't see why they would need to do that since the Seattle area here has quite a few different military installations, and Everett has a major naval port.
If our military had complete control of Seattle, what would they do?
They'd probably turn the space needle into a military weapon.
Well, listen, I want to take a moment out as we close out the show of this hour in New York City to once again say thank you to everybody in New York City for making Coast to Coast A.M. in one book.
We call it a book, a survey period.
One survey period.
Coast to Coast AM.
number one in the Big Apple W A B Z my childhood Now I'm on it.
And now I'm number one.
So thank you, New Yorkers, and actually people in the western half of the entire country, because that's about where you can hear WABC.