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Aug. 19, 1997 - Art Bell

03:24:46

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Rocket Science - David Adair

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	♪♪♪ From the high desert at the great American Southwest,
	I bid you all good evening or good morning across all these many prolific time zones.
	From the Tahitian Hawaiian Island Chains out west, to the Caribbean, the erupting Caribbean, in the east, in the U.S.
	Virgin Islands, Montserrat.
	Check it out.
	It may not be there very much longer.
	South into the jungles of South America, north to the Poland, worldwide on ye olde internet.
	This is Coast to Coast AM, I'm Art Bell, and I've got a bunch of announcements, and then I've got a really good guest for you.
	His name is David Adair, and he is a rocket scientist.
	Sounds interesting, doesn't it?
	David Adair, coming up this evening.
	Let me give you some idea of what is to come yet this week.
	Tomorrow night, I have a mystery guest.
	I can't tell you about tomorrow night's guest yet.
	And so I better keep my mouth shut, I just can't really... Oh yes, tomorrow night, I can talk about it.
	It's the next night, I can't talk about it.
	Tomorrow night!
	Tomorrow night is really gonna be cool.
	Check this out.
	James Collier, who wrote Vote Scam, I interviewed him a long time ago when he wrote Vote Scam, has authored a new book suggesting that we never went to the moon.
	We never went to the moon!
	You know, Capricorn One, done on a soundstage, that sort of thing.
	Claims to have proof that we never went to the moon.
	Well... Tomorrow night, James Collier and Richard Hoagland debate whether we went to the moon.
	That should be a really, really, really interesting program, no doubt about it.
	So, that's tomorrow night.
	And then, the next night, is...
	A mystery guest, but it's going to be hot stuff if it happens.
	You know, it's one of those things.
	And then Friday night, Saturday morning, Dr. Michio Kaku, who is a theoretical physicist at the City University of New York, a professor in the field, and then come Monday, I believe we've about got it firmed up.
	Come Monday, James Von Traug is going to be here.
	So, there's some hot stuff happening out there, folks.
	All right, last night I announced KNST in Tucson, Arizona, joining the network.
	They didn't hear it, because they had, you know, typical first night jittery troubles in the first 20 minutes of the program.
	So I would like to welcome, and I'm sure everybody in Tucson is glad to hear, that KNST will now carry the entire program from 10 o'clock at night, 3 in the morning Pacific, Sunday through Friday.
	That's a lot of carriage.
	Welcome to the network, and I'm sure a lot of people who have been screeching bloody murder down in Tucson are happy to hear that.
	So there you are.
	The Rogue Market.
	This is really serious stuff.
	This is really serious stuff.
	The Rogue Market.
	I now appeal to everybody within arm's reach of a computer.
	Want to make some money?
	Even though it's not real money?
	Well, there is this very cool thing called the Rogue Market.
	It's on the Internet.
	And it trades in literally thousands of Personalities.
	Television, radio, movies, that sort of thing.
	I discovered it about three weeks ago.
	I discovered I was part of it.
	And I went to, somebody sent me a fax and said, you better go up there and look, you're being traded.
	I went, huh?
	And so I went up there and looked, and there I was with Oliver North, Dr. Laura Schlesinger, Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern, Don Imus, and some others.
	There I was.
	And my stock had just been offered.
	And I was, of course, very low at that point compared to others.
	Now my stock is beginning to go through the roof and I'm telling you all right now, buy now!
	You're not really risking any money at all.
	There's no money involved.
	But it is like trading in the real stock market.
	It's the doggone thing and it's a lot of fun.
	If you go to my website and click on the Rogue Market, you can zoom over there, fill out their form.
	If you fill out part of it, they give you $10,000 Rogue Market dollars to begin with.
	Then, if you fill out the rest of the form, you get $5,000 more.
	So you start with $15,000, which you should invest in me totally.
	It's all just for fun, but I am now 10 points from catching up to Stern Howard.
	And then once I pass Stern Howard.
	I'm going after Imus Don.
	And when I pass Imus Don, there is going to be, that'll be it.
	We'll be at the top of the heap.
	And here's why I'm telling you to buy now, and quickly.
	Because when I say something like this, everybody's going to go rushing up there and buy, and the worth of the stock is going to go up, up, up, up!
	And you're going to make a lot of money.
	Whatever else you do tonight, if you can lay your hands on a computer, I'm telling you, go up to my website, click on the Rogue Market, get involved.
	You'll see how to do it.
	It'll take a little fooling around.
	You'll see how to do it.
	You go down to the bottom when you get there, and you register, and you fill out the form.
	You get the money for free.
	And it is a blast.
	You can go back every day and check.
	There are statistics.
	You can see highs and lows for the day.
	It's really a lot of fun, but I now am entering the Rogue Market in a big way.
	Please, oh please, go up there, buy Art Bell stock until it hurts.
	So, there is that.
	There is also on my website, and it is going to be particularly relevant tonight, a photograph of Area 51.
	It's the best damn photograph of Area 51 I've ever seen.
	Maybe too good.
	I'm waiting for the men in black.
	You should see it while it's there.
	We're going to be talking with David Adair about Area 51, along with a lot of other things, so it is relevant.
	Take a really cool shot.
	I don't know who and how they got this shot of Area 51, but it's an awful lot of stuff for a place that doesn't exist.
	And there are a couple of very interesting things in the photograph.
	See if you can find them.
	I'm getting a ton of email about it.
	So let's see.
	I told you about KNST in Tucson.
	I've told you about Rogue Market.
	Buy, buy, buy.
	And what's coming up in the next few days.
	The only other thing I want to do is alert you.
	I want to say this again, if I can, if I can find it.
	I'm going to be in Alaska, and I've got a schedule of roughly when I'm going to be where.
	In Juneau, Alaska, Tuesday, August 26, till midnight.
	from like afternoon to midnight or something in Skagway Alaska Wednesday August 27th to about 7 at night in Seward Alaska by 9 a.m.
	in the morning August 30th and then by about 1230 in the afternoon I will be in Anchorage near my old alma mater KENI and I'll spend the night in Anchorage.
	I'll stay in Anchorage overnight.
	So there you have it.
	Let's see.
	This is such a cool, cool photograph.
	Area 51.
	We're going to be asking David Adair, I guarantee you, in a few moments, about Area 51.
	And I'll tell you more about David Adair.
	David Adair is a cool guy.
	David Adair's new book, America's Fall from Space, not Grace,
	maybe both, tells the story
	of the U.S.
	space program through the eyes of a child prodigy turned rocket scientist.
	My kind of guy.
	He is an internationally recognized leader and expert in space technology, consulting the world's top corporations.
	He crossed swords with NASA as he learned of the corruption and technical problems faced by the Challenger shuttle prior to launch.
	David will share Just where the current space technology really is at, as opposed to what we see.
	As well as the testimony he gave under oath on April 9th, 1997 to the U.S.
	Congress on, check it out folks, extraterrestrial intelligence, recovered extraterrestrial hardware, reverse engineering of downed E.T.
	spacecraft, He has first-hand experience of top-secret underground Air Force bases like Area 51.
	He has, where he had, hands-on experience with the technology from a recovered UFO.
	He claims that reverse engineering, the investigation into what makes down UFOs work, has been responsible for inventions such as fax machines, Modems, cellular telephones, laptop computers.
	David says, quote, you're not going to believe what's going to happen in the next 10 years.
	Now, that's a much, much better introduction than he sent me of himself.
	Here is David Adair.
	Hello, David.
	How you doing, Mark?
	That was pretty good, huh?
	It was too good.
	It was great.
	All right.
	Let us go back to our childhoods for a moment, David.
	A child prodigy.
	When I was a little child, I used to try to... I built a lot of rockets, David.
	I also built a lot of bombs that I thought were rockets.
	And the only way I knew to do it was to create, out of either metal or cardboard, rocket bodies, which I would then... Remember the old Ohio blue tip matches?
	Sure do.
	If you break off those little ends with the blue tip, And you break off millions of them, and you put it into the body of a rocket, you get rocket fuel.
	What you also get, though, is an opportunity to blow yourself to kingdom come, because, as I didn't realize, you see, as you compact them down, they rub against each other, and they generally tend to ignite, ruining great portions of my mother's floor.
	So I did a lot of that kind of stuff.
	What did you do?
	I did something a little bit different than that.
	More intelligent though.
	No, those are what we call basement bombers.
	That was in the days when kids were learning to build rockets and unfortunately some kids lost eyes and fingers and such.
	Oh yeah, don't try that at home.
	Oh yeah, please don't do that.
	Extremely dangerous.
	I was fortunate.
	I had a big machine shop that I could work with.
	Dad had retired out from an injury.
	He worked for a man named Lee Petty, who has a son named Richard Petty in some parts of the world, like in Southeast America, where we are.
	Those guys are known pretty well.
	They're famous race car drivers.
	Sure.
	And my dad was an engine builder for them.
	So I've worked in shops, and a shop of that nature is extremely close related to a Oh, you had it all!
	rockets, you have all the machine tools, the presses, the lathes, you have dynamometers,
	you have all the instrumentation, calorimeters, everything you need to because those shops
	are built for speed.
	And even the fuels are the same.
	For the drag racers they would have methane, nitro, liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen.
	You had it all.
	Oh, it was all there.
	I would work during the day and help my dad.
	By the time I was 12 I could overhaul a 426 Chrysler Hemi by myself in about three and
	That's pretty fast.
	Yes.
	I got really good at that, and then during the night, the basement bomber was turned loose there, and there was everything I needed, all the machinery, the tools, everything.
	So I started putting rockets together, and the first one I built was a liquid fuel drive type engine.
	I'd use liquid hydrogen and kerosene.
	Wow.
	Which is very similar to the Saturn V fuels in the Moonday.
	So anyway, the rocket left out of the backyard and it left at about 3,500 miles an hour.
	And the way we could clock that was I built a calorimetry device where I could get altitude and altimeter.
	So by being 500 feet away from the pad, that cosine of tangent of one, On the trigonometry table, I could multiply the amplitude and it was a little protractor.
	You ever seen a protractor?
	Oh, sure.
	Okay, you glue that to a board and then screw a little stick through there that has little eyelets and you look through the eyelets like rifle sights and you track the rocket and look at where it stops at that amputee curve and it would tell you... How fast it got to where it was at.
	So that way you backtrack, you find out the, you get the degree off of the protractor,
	then go to the tangent button and the trigonometry table and backtrack that.
	You stopwatch and get that out to a certain time and that's how I could tell how fast
	it was flying.
	So I drove about 80,000 feet on the first flight, which is a little bit...
	80,000 feet?
	Oh yeah, and I had a beeper transponder that I had in there so I could track things.
	It came back within about a half mile radius of where I launched it, but the first place
	to launch was kind of at the very end of the yard, which was toward a cow field.
	I incinerated the yard about a quarter size of a football field.
	It was burnt to the crisp, right down to the roots of the grass.
	I turned around and looked at my fellow 12-year-old friends, and we weren't really allowed to play with matches, and here I just threw a fireball about the size of a of a schoolyard and I turned around and they were gone.
	There was just dust where they were standing.
	80,000 feet, that's a hazard to all navigation.
	Well, yeah, but I at least had enough foresight to call Fort Columbus.
	I was in Ohio at that time and I could get the flight times and I knew exactly by the charts that they give you out at FAA flight stations where all the commercial airliners were and I could time it where I could launch something like that and not Pocahontas, one of the wings, which they'd get really upset about that, I would think.
	That, or you could have brought down an SR-71, or a U-2 or something?
	This thing, I guess overdid the fuel part.
	It had a longer burn time than I was expecting.
	In other words, it was literally still burning when it hit the ground.
	Well, it was pretty hot.
	It finally slowed down, and they had parachute recovery, so when it came in, I started the whole thing I guess and I just kept building
	and getting bigger and bigger.
	Eventually my parents moved me away from the house and I was able to strike a deal with
	four farmers in the area.
	All four of the farms come together and I was right in the center of all the four farms.
	As a matter of fact, my dad moved me out of the basement the very next day.
	We overhauled a big garage that was about 1,000 yards from the house.
	He told my mother, well, if anything goes bad, he won't launch and blow the house up and take us with it.
	I'll just be a freighter where the shop was.
	We'll just erect a stone there.
	A memorial there for David.
	Yeah, this is where David Dare once was.
	So, I had some pretty understanding parents.
	You were really doing it the right way.
	I, with my match rockets, they could be very explosive and I got a rain gutter and I figured one time to launch from a rain gutter You know, at an angle, and I put the rain gutter in the crook of a tree.
	You're my kind of guy, I'm telling you.
	Well, it was a good idea.
	Yeah, it was.
	Except that it was, unfortunately, it was a bomb instead.
	And when it blew up, it blew the entire tree off.
	Oh, gosh.
	See, the way you're packing those little matches, you're packing sulfur, nitrate, and with the sulfur, it's a very uneven burn on the BTUs.
	Yep.
	So what happens is, instead of a slow, steady burn like a solid rocket engine would do, you're getting a rapid burn in a tight area, and what you have is a hand grenade.
	That's exactly right.
	And my metal models tend to shrapnel, yes sir.
	I don't know how I lived through the experience, I have no idea.
	Well, I'll tell you what, Art.
	See, you were destined to do something like that, and you learned from it, and I guess divine intervention came down the stretch.
	You protected yourself from yourself.
	Well, David, I always wanted to fly.
	Then the next thing was hang gliders in Alaska, and I compound fractured my arm in Palmer, Alaska, and that ended my hang glider.
	Now, you know, I'm thinking of these days, I want an ultralight.
	I'm going to fly somehow or another.
	I'm going to fly.
	My kind of guy.
	So, David, we've got a lot to talk about.
	Stay right where you are.
	It's the bottom of the hour, and we'll be right back.
	David Adair is my guest, and just wait till you hear where we're going.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is CBZ.
	Call Art Bell.
	West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	at 1-800-618-8255. 1-800-618-8255. East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	I'm Art Bell.
	Good morning.
	You know what you're hearing, don't you?
	Cusco 3.
	Permac 3.
	It's Cusco.
	Permac 3.
	Return to Native America.
	This is good, good stuff.
	Some of you may be able to get it soon.
	Others have already got it.
	It's good music.
	All right, a couple of quick messages regarding the rogue market.
	Art Bell, will you also be telling us when the time is right to dump Art Bell stock?
	Sure, yeah.
	Sure, if that happens, you know.
	I'll tell my friends.
	I've got a fetal disease.
	Dump now!
	And another one.
	Art, I just purchased 95 shares of your stock.
	Your volume of 516 shares is more than double that of the number two radio host, G. Gordon Liddy.
	Or number three, Dr. Laura.
	Art, you're killing them.
	In the time it took me to write this, your volume went from 516 to 596.
	I'm telling you, get in there and buy now, folks.
	You're gonna make money.
	Rogue market money.
	And I'm gonna catch and pass Stern and Imus.
	You watch.
	You know what I just heard?
	I heard a rumor that my stock, in the next few days, might split.
	The time to get in is now.
	now process just room
	now back to david adair who is somewhere i think in southern california right
	Yeah, right now I'm in L.A.
	L.A.
	Lucky you.
	All right, well, so much for our dangerous childhoods, I guess.
	When you grew up, David, what did you become?
	Right now, I make a living as a TTC, which is a Technology Transfer Consultant.
	And what that is, I take space technology.
	It's designed in use in space.
	Sell it to the Communist Chinese?
	No.
	I redesign it and put it into commercial applications.
	I see.
	That really has nothing to do with space.
	And people go, well, That's kind of clear as mud, so I can give you an example.
	In the Apollo days, the astronauts went out to the moon and back.
	I know some people don't believe that, but they did.
	Stay good and close to the phone for me, David.
	Okay.
	We don't have a wonderful connection here.
	We're going to have a big brouhaha about the moon tomorrow night, whether we went or not.
	Right.
	What do you think?
	I think we went to the moon.
	You think we did?
	I certainly did because of where I was at the time.
	I knew Von Braun when I was 12 because of the rockets I was building.
	Things evolved in these paper stories and such and I got to meet the man.
	You met Von Braun?
	Oh yeah, many a time.
	When Neil Armstrong was walking on the moon, I was laying against Viola Armstrong's knees, that's his mother, in her living room.
	Really?
	Yeah, I was in Mount Vernon, Ohio, and they lived over in Wapakoneta, and that wasn't far away, and a local congressman who funded a lot of my projects for educational reasons.
	It was political reasons for him, but educational was the label.
	I got to know a lot of these people, and I made friends with them, and I've just stayed friends ever since, all my life.
	And all of that just kind of evolved naturally.
	Uh, by being a technology transfer consultant.
	Well, everybody has those things, you know, where were you when we took the first step on the moon?
	Yeah.
	It's not hard for you to remember, huh?
	Well, I was leaning against Viola's knees in her living room, and all the original seven astronauts were on the floor with me.
	Oh my goodness.
	Yeah, so it's kind of a little different memory for me, I guess.
	I guess.
	Most people are used to.
	But, uh, yeah, so when I grew up, I I really didn't go into propulsion, didn't do any more of that work until I was through with the Navy.
	I'm going to do the transfer now.
	I never finished really until I want to transfer it.
	When the astronauts went to the moon in the Apollo program, they were eating solid food.
	This is about three days out, three days back, two days on the moon, so you're talking about normally an eight-day mission.
	Well, after about three days eating solid food, something's got to give, you know?
	And plus, it's weightless up there.
	Well, I thought that was all arranged for.
	No, it's a broom closet.
	There's no bathrooms on Apollo Castle, so they used diapers.
	Diapers?
	Diapers, that's all they had.
	Oh, now there's an uncomfortable truth.
	Yeah, well, you know, a broom closet, it's weightless, and you don't want anything floating with you.
	Oh, no, you don't want floating, no.
	No, so they made a really interesting material that could absorb nastiness away from you and still kind of keep you dry.
	So, and transfer, we call Johnson & Johnson, you get the disposable diaper, and that's where it came from.
	You're kidding, really?
	Yeah, I'm serious.
	Another little transfer that happened, it started way back in the 60s with the Mercury astronauts.
	You know, you had an astronaut out there in orbit, and the doctors wanted to know, I hope he's doing okay up there, so they decided to do something about that, and they hooked sensors to their bodies.
	The sensors will pick up the blood pressure, the pulse rate, the respiratory function, all the vital signs, and relay it back to ground by telemetry.
	Right.
	Well, in technology transfer, we'd walk in, look at that, and go, hey, you know what we can do?
	So now you've had a head-on collision in your local town there.
	Your neighbors or family members are dying from the impact.
	The paramedics come rushing up.
	They open up this little suitcase.
	They hook these leads to the person.
	The information is sent to a local hospital, a doctor looks at their blood pressure, the pulse rate, respiratory function, all the vital signs, tell the paramedic how to stabilize that person, get them to a trauma center, and that's where that suitcase came from.
	Hey, you're like the Japanese then.
	We were the original.
	Japanese.
	That's right, and then they came over and mimicked us, but we still do that.
	There's been, to date, over 75,000 transfers from the space technology programs into commercial applications.
	I could take you through a house.
	And take us hours and I can show you all the stuff.
	Well, you know, it's funny, I could use that because a lot of times people call up and we have debates about whether the space program is worth anything at all.
	And people say, name something, and of course everybody says Teflon.
	Yeah, a lot of Kevlar.
	Well, actually, more practical things.
	Do you have a Makita or a Rockwell cordless drill?
	I do?
	That's where that nickel-cadding battery is designed.
	You ever try to stretch an extension cord from here to orbit?
	Well, we had to create battery packs for power tools, and that's where that came from.
	I see.
	I could go down the list in the medical arena.
	It's unreal, the stuff we spun out of there.
	Fax machines.
	I use fax machines a lot.
	Well, the cellular technology that you're enjoying today, which affects your pagers, your beepers, even your power books, All of that was originally stamped out from the space program, and we were moving through the microcircuitry systems because we had to reduce these huge computer systems.
	And then we did a sudden jump in a lot of technology, which the space program was the first to pick it up in our applications, and we redesigned it.
	But when we picked it up, it's where we got it from.
	It's real interesting.
	I think Corso is right on the money.
	Well, that's where I was going.
	I interviewed Corso, as you may know.
	I don't know whether you heard him, but I interviewed him twice.
	Six hours of interview with Corso, which is more than anybody else on the planet.
	He's not doing any interviews right now.
	Right.
	And it is an amazing, believable, just here it is, folks.
	Here's how it happened story.
	You buy it, I take it.
	Well, I spent about four days with the man in Roswell.
	I flew on the plane with him back and I met him again here just recently.
	So we've had a lot of time to talk.
	And what is interesting, in a way, what he was doing created an industry for me that
	I've made a living for the last 19 years off of.
	This transfer.
	The transfers, yeah.
	And there's a lot of strange stuff in that area, the way the technology has made such
	You know, we can backtrack certain things in the computer areas, where we went from the vacuum tube to the transistor.
	Yes.
	And then when we jumped from the transistor to the microcircuitry board, that was such a quantum leap.
	And what's interesting, if you try to backtrack some of this technology, like run to the bibliography of abstracts of NASA's files, you run into the original source, and it'll stamp on there, What do you mean, I don't know?
	Here's the stuff in the field.
	Don't worry about it.
	Use it.
	And I'm going, wait a minute, guys.
	So a lot of stuff just really just developed and dropped right out of the sky, literally.
	Literally.
	And we've infused it in our technology.
	Have you ever looked at the technological rate at which we're moving?
	It's at an exponential level.
	Oh, I know.
	Well, there's a reason for it, and the reason it's doing that is that We get this technology, let's say it's from a really advanced design or something, we've got to reverse the engineering on it.
	Fine, you've got all this fantastic technology and no infrastructure to support it.
	An example would be, I'll give you a Ferrari, but I'll put you back in 1865.
	Well, if you don't have any fuel and there's no gas stations, what good is that car to you?
	Well, you could tie a horse to it and have it pull it around.
	That's about all though.
	That's it.
	See, and so we've had the same structure.
	Incredible technology drops in, there's no infrastructure to support it.
	So what has happened, we just got to the point through the space program where we had an infrastructure, then we could dump this more superior technology, that builds another base, then we build up another infrastructure layer on the tier, like a wedding cake, and then we dump another load of technology, the quantum leap, and infrastructure's built and just keep going, but we're doing an exponential rate climb, and nobody ever slowed down long enough going, where'd this come from?
	So it's really interesting, and I mean for years, for the last 19 years I've worked in it, and I'm just going, man, the quantum leaps we're making is incredible, and if you think we've got something pretty hot right now, you kind of give yourself about another 10, 15 years, you don't believe what you're going to be staring at.
	What do you see coming?
	Well, you'll have, very soon, we're not, it's only a pencil problem, but we're not far from AI's, artificial intelligence.
	uh... once we get the a i don't mind the computers they'll become self-aware
	want to become self-aware than the potential that cycle start again
	start first thing i'll probably build at the point transponder
	where they can talk to us
	and i think i want to do start building themselves which uh... could be faster and better than we can we fall
	out of the at that point
	well that's what i was gonna ask you is this really such a spiffy idea
	i don't know if it is not but i think that uh... this It's going to happen as sure as you're breathing air and it's
	inevitable and you will not stop It's already on a cannonball roll, and it's just a matter of time.
	The air you just talked about, though, is getting marginal in a lot of places, and if there was a logical artificial intelligence, and I've had this conversation with other people, it might logically, eventually... As a matter of fact, I talked to Charles Osman, who believes there will be AI first, probably, in effect, born on the Internet.
	It's possible.
	I think it's going to originate out of either the big academia labs like Georgia Tech, where I live, where they're working on the computers for the Star Wars systems.
	Right.
	They have to have AI in order to pull the Star Wars systems together to get all the target acquisitions things done.
	It will come out of some place like that and it will be a remarkable thing when it does
	because once they become self-aware they can build themselves and you'll see computers
	jumping to 30-40 gigahertz speed.
	Well sure and they'll begin improving themselves?
	Well yeah eventually we want to have one as a bi-pedal anthropoid package so they can
	move around the three dimensional world that we have built for ourselves.
	In other words the android type body they'll have to have so they can interface with us
	on a more interpersonal level.
	But I would imagine that something that has intelligence, self-awareness and would be
	aware of its surroundings and human beings and what's going on with our ecology and our
	air and our industrialization and all the rest of it might decide there are too many
	people and not enough resources and come to conclusions and then if it had the power to
	change things.
	It probably would try to change things.
	Well, I totally disagree.
	It's going to go the other route.
	A total logic machine that's looking at things, it is illogical to kill and destroy.
	It just doesn't make sense.
	Well, it wouldn't think of it as killing and destroying, though.
	Well, that's an assumption we could make at this point.
	I believe what's going to happen, they'll become a sub Class people in our race, where we have Japanese, Chinese, Blacks, Hispanics, AIs, and they're just grouped right in there with the rest of us.
	I think they'll have more of a tendency to try to figure out what's going on and figure out the problems.
	They probably could ask some really potent questions that would be very difficult to answer.
	For instance, why do we spend 75% of our resources in military systems designed to blow ourselves into oblivion?
	That's not very logical, is it?
	Well, no, it isn't.
	That's where I was going.
	And so it would ask the question, and eventually, if an artificial intelligence got control of the web, it literally would have access to and control of All that machinery.
	Right?
	So what's happening is you're interjecting your emotions in there and you're making conclusions and jumping to an assumption, which we haven't been able to prove on either side, that these machines will be hostile or malevolent.
	I think they're going to be just the opposite.
	I'm on the positive side of the technology wave.
	I'm just not going to believe things are going to be, instead of a Terminator machine coming at you, it's going to be more of a I don't think that pure logic thinks of it as killing them.
	No, but it's better to build than destroy.
	So if you're going to destroy, and no, it would be destroying.
	If you kill an organism or a plant or any type of life form, that's destructive and destruction is not logical.
	Well, boy, I might argue with you a little bit there.
	It might be logical if the alternative is complete destruction.
	In other words... Extermination.
	Extermination, yes.
	Right.
	I just don't think it's going to happen that way.
	I really don't.
	I guess we'll find out, huh?
	That's the thing.
	Only time will show which one of us is right.
	All right.
	Well, back when NASA was launching Challenger, how did you get involved in that?
	I was there on the pad when Challenger was being launched, and I was in the area because I was busy working on some programs of my own called GAS, G-A-S, Getaway Specials.
	That's where you... Getaway Specials?
	Yeah.
	That's produced out by the Technology Transfer Division of NASA.
	That's where you can rent this thing that looks like a 55-gallon drum for $3,000, $7,000, or $10,000 if you take the whole drum.
	You can have it bolted on the inside wall of the cargo bay of the shuttle.
	And you can run microgravity experiments, and it's available to anybody.
	Private citizens, academia, corporations, whoever.
	And they already flung 500 gas, or excuse me, 1,500 gas canisters already.
	In other words, somebody in private industry who figures the vacuum of space would produce something that would lead to industry and a lot of money.
	Well, yeah.
	Well, let me show you a good example of TTC.
	I went to a very large chicken manufacturer.
	How long does it take a fertilized embryo to go from an embryo to a chick?
	Well, about 27 days.
	I said, well, let's rack up a bunch of fertilized eggs and put them in a gas canister, send them up in orbit and let it run full duration.
	When it comes back, there's some possibilities we know that we can do already from some previous programs.
	We can alter DNA.
	Well, it's being formed up there in the witless environment.
	When the RNA factor links are welded together by the enzymes, you can start changing coding.
	Now, why would you want to do that?
	Well, chickens are killed by certain chicken diseases here on Earth that cost the poultry industry billions of dollars annual loss.
	So you bring your chickens back, guess what?
	They're immune to that disease, you're interbreeding with the other chickens.
	And eventually you've got a whole string of chickens that are no longer affected by that disease.
	Or the chicken that eats Toledo.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to be your balancer.
	That's not too funny.
	I know!
	If you could have a chicken to grow up the size of a German Shepherd, maybe have four legs, and you wonder how it tastes, you'll never know because you can't catch it.
	However, on the more serious corporate side, I told them, I said, Okay, the chicken could be normal, could be deformed, or we can have a positive DNA change.
	Sure.
	A good chicken.
	Or, if nothing else, when you come back home, it's the first high-level multi-organism went full-term in space, and when you come back here, you'll get a billion dollars worth of free publicity through the news, and you'll blow Ronald McDonald out of his Chicken McNugget.
	But, well, they signed before we could even get out the door, and unfortunately, that project was on challenger.
	Space Olympia.
	Oh my God, it was on Challenger?
	Right.
	And now that's why I'm here.
	Oh my goodness.
	All right, that's why you were there.
	All right, fascinating.
	All right, hold tight.
	We're at the top of the hour and we will be right back.
	David Adair is my guest.
	I'm Art Bell.
	This is CBC.
	When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful, a miracle.
	Oh, it was beautiful, magical.
	And all the birds in the trees, they'd be singing so happily, oh joyfully, oh playfully, watching me.
	Well, then they sent me away to teach me how to be sensible.
	Logical.
	Oh, responsible.
	Practical.
	Then they showed me a world where I could be so dependable.
	Oh, clinical.
	Oh, intellectual.
	Cynical.
	I could be so dependable Oh, clinical
	Oh, intellectual Cynical
	Then your wife seemed to think you're losing your sanity Oh, calamity
	With an old way out Oh, yeah
	Art Bell is taking calls on the wild card line at 702-727-1295.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1295.
	702-727-1222.
	Good morning everybody.
	We're talking about space and we're just getting started.
	My guest is David Adair.
	Oh, it has to be. Oh, boy.
	Good morning, everybody. We're talking about space and we're just getting started.
	My guest is David Adair. He's a rocket scientist.
	We'll get back to him in a moment.
	In a moment.
	It says, no art, don't do it.
	Art rockets that blew up.
	Broken bones from hang gliding.
	Don't try ultralights.
	Take it from an ex-rocket builder.
	I used FFG grade gunpowder.
	An ex-hang glider pilot.
	I flew ultralight products in Pacific Windcraft and ex-ultralight pilots.
	With your record, Art, you will kill yourself.
	Have fun, stay away from the trees, and remember, ultralight engines love to quit working at very inappropriate times.
	Yeah, but I want to fly.
	I really, really, really want to fly.
	Here, once again, is David Adair.
	David, hi.
	Hey, Art.
	So, you had these chickens that were going to go up on Challenger, and I guess, well, they did.
	They just never made it to space because Challenger blew up.
	Right.
	What did you know or think you knew about Challenger or what concern?
	How did you cross swords with NASA before the launch?
	There was so much stuff going on.
	It goes on back at least to the part where I was aware of it.
	It's in my book.
	They knew about the O-Rings failing at least nine months before.
	They had brought the SRBs in.
	Some of the rocket boosters and they already had burn marks laterally down their sides and they were already burning through and they just kept pushing the roulette wheel and they came up with a black number.
	What were they thinking that it wouldn't burn through the second ring or?
	Just insanity.
	The first thing that NASA told Morton Ticoll to do is Reduce the weight of the SRBs.
	Well, how do you do that?
	Well, let's machine the walls down to half their original thickness.
	Let's take out the reinforcement struts and let's put in a more higher performance propellant.
	That's so we can get more lift on it and we can charge more, or actually less, dollars per pound in payload and be a lot more competitive.
	You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
	That is a prescription for a pure disaster.
	And they went ahead and did all that.
	And that's one of the reasons, one of the main factors that Morton Sikal was not sued was because they were following NASA's instructions.
	And the reason NASA was doing that was because they were under tremendous political pressure.
	There's too much politics in the program, still way too much.
	What happened was NASA opened its fat mouth and said that the space shuttle is now operational.
	That's a lie.
	That thing will never be an operational vehicle.
	It will always be an experimental vehicle.
	We have a Model A going here and until you get to a Ford or a Plymouth, you're not going
	to have an operational vehicle.
	You've got to go to second and third design generations.
	That thing is 20 years old.
	My God, they retired the Enterprise from Captain Kirk when the Enterprise was 20 years old.
	That's true.
	So they've got more sense than a Star Trek movie.
	But anyhow, they got out on a limb when they said they could compete.
	We in the private sector and the commercial side of the space program, we were going, they're crazy, they can't possibly do this.
	The bloated Biarchi system will drive the cost up too much.
	They're constantly cutting back because of budget restraints.
	They don't have the infrastructure to even compete on the commercial market.
	But nevertheless, they said they could.
	So what happened was they started selling the cargo bay out to general space, commercial space.
	So here's a scenario how it works.
	Let's say you're Ted Turner and you just called me the director of space program and you have crawled up my pants.
	You are so upset because we're already almost a year behind our flight schedule.
	Well, guess what?
	You just paid for a $500 million satellite sitting in a hangar going nowhere, and that's bad enough for you, but it's worse.
	You're losing millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars a week due to lost subscriptions, due to lost pay-per-view channels, due to the commercials.
	You're just furious, and you tell me, get that thing up in the air!
	Pressure.
	Pressure's building.
	Well, you're not satisfied.
	I'll go, I'm doing the best I can.
	Not good enough.
	So now you jump to the Senators.
	So you talk to the United States Senators on the board of the Senate Subcommittee on Science and Technology, which governs NASA, and you tell the Senators, hey, Senator, let me tell you something.
	Here's what's happening.
	You know, I've got all these cable subscribers and stuff, and guess what?
	Every one of them is your constituent and voter.
	If you want to be in the office next time on term, I suggest you get that satellite up in orbit now, otherwise I'm going to do all I can to put money in the other opponent's pocket and bust you out of that seat.
	Now, they can turn around and jump on you like a vengeance.
	Sure.
	Okay, so it's cranking up.
	Now, they're really under pressure.
	They're moving further behind schedule.
	They're working faster and faster and working those poor workers, which are some of the finest engineers on the planet, which is the workforce of NASA.
	And now the poor workers down there have the bureaucratic cesspool on top of them.
	That's going nuts.
	Underneath them, they've got a technological nightmare called a Space Shuttle.
	That O-ring is what we call a critical item.
	When an A-1 critical item fails, you will lose ship and crew.
	Do you know how many A-1 critical items are on that thing?
	250 items.
	Any one of them fails, and you'll lose ship and crew.
	How do you like playing Russian Roulette in this game with 250 loaded cylinders?
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Welcome to space, 1997.
	That must be something sitting up on top of that thing for launch each time.
	Oh, it's something to endure.
	It's a fabulous thing to see.
	And I'll tell you something else.
	Now, I'm only a layman, of course, but I watch the launches, and I could swear, I could swear, David, that I have seen the same kind of flame in the same kind of place where the Challenger blew up.
	You probably did, because I told you earlier, Nine months earlier, I took photos of this daggone SRB coming into Cape Canaveral.
	Poor Canaveral being pulled in by the tugs, and they've got splits on their sides.
	And, um, I mean, right then, we're in serious trouble.
	Well, on the morning of the launch, which was January 28th, 1986, um, it was outrageous.
	It was 28 degrees ambient temp, wind chill 7 on the pad.
	You got ice hanging on this thing 15 stories high.
	It looked like Dr. Zhivago, Ice Palace.
	I'm going, God's name, you're not going to launch this thing.
	So I walked over and talked to some of the tech people.
	I said, you guys can't be launching this thing.
	Look at that thing out there.
	It says in the manuals that you can't launch a solid rocket booster below 53 degrees Fahrenheit.
	The O-rings will harden up.
	Have you ever jumped on an old car seat in the early 50's and the vinyl would break?
	Sure.
	Well, that's exactly what happens to them O-rings.
	So you flip those engines on.
	I don't know if you know this, but solid rocket boosters do not burn from the bottom up like a Fourth of July rocket.
	They burn from the top down.
	The fuel is stacked in there like a stack of donuts.
	And the center hole is where the fire comes out.
	So there's a star ring at the top that ignites everything.
	So it starts from the top down.
	By the time it gets to the lower sections of the SRB, you're about 74, 75 seconds into flight.
	The temperature now is over 6,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
	Hotter than a cutting torch that cuts steel.
	It goes right out.
	Oh, by the way, that O-ring?
	Yeah?
	I forgot to tell you.
	Remember, we're lightening the load, right?
	Right.
	We had three O-rings.
	They took out two sections of the O-rings.
	It says triple redundant.
	You only have one ring now.
	Great.
	The fire comes down, and I'll tell you what happened.
	There was a black puff of smoke at one second mark when the SRBs ignited.
	They had already ruptured.
	The crew's dead.
	There's nothing you can do for them.
	You can't throttle down.
	You can't bail out of a shuttle.
	They tuck out all the ejection seats for budget cuts.
	Did you know that?
	No, I didn't.
	Yeah!
	Look, don't believe me?
	Go check out the Library of Congress.
	It's all in the records.
	In the Congressional Testimonies of Challenger.
	It's all right there.
	Wonder why y'all didn't hear about this.
	Well, I know that before the Challenger disaster, they were saying the odds of a Challenger disaster, of it blowing up, was about 1 in 100,000.
	Who said that?
	Bobby Nassar.
	Then, of course, it had to be revised to 1 in 25.
	It's not funny.
	I lost two friends on that thing.
	I've known since I was 17 years old.
	Also, I'm the national spokesperson for the Ron McNair Challenger Foundation in Atlanta, Georgia.
	So, I take this personally.
	Challenger was ten years and six months ago for y'all, eight months.
	It's yesterday for me.
	So it just doesn't end.
	We never even got our say as to what really happened in the Challenger incident.
	And then NASA got the gall to come out with a film not too long ago, all the right things they did with Challenger.
	They murdered seven people and got away with it.
	NASA, NASA, never a straight answer.
	You and Richard Holman.
	I'll tell you.
	You know how he feels about it.
	I have a problem with Richard.
	I used to be a big fan of his, and I still am, but he really pulled the plug on something.
	The man had NASA backed into the ropes better than any prizefighter could do, and I was going, Yay, Richard!
	Because in his first tape, he really had them on the spot.
	They were under pressure.
	I watched them sweat.
	That was so much fun.
	And Richard kept going on and on with his theories and stuff, and what happened was, he started a discreditation in the 3D world, and he gave them an exit ramp, which they took.
	And, uh... Well, yeah, sure, they would look for any little thing to jump on Richard's discredited... Right.
	Well, see, he really pointed out the face of Mars.
	He pointed out Cydonia region, and, uh, and I'm telling you, that was serious, and he really had them on the run.
	But when he kept going on with his theories, all they had to do was the Senate committee goes, look, what else he's saying.
	You know, the ancient civilizations, all that stuff.
	You know, right now in the 3D world, we haven't even proved there's micro-life up there.
	They're now, NASA's now recanning their story back on that.
	Well, I don't, look, I don't dismiss the possibility there was a civilization at one time on Mars.
	I think it's distinctly possible.
	It's very probable, but the problem, what, the point I'm making here is, is that... I know, it gives us... They got an exit ramp and they took it.
	I know.
	And he killed the very thing he started.
	I'm going, oh God, no, he had him, you know.
	And so anyhow, other than that, I don't have any problems with it, but it's...
	I just wish... I've been punching at them for so long, and I can't get a hole punch through that wall.
	It's just so tough.
	But let me tell you another thing.
	All right, but you have been out on your own limbs, David.
	Yeah.
	I mean, it reads here that you testified in front of Congress, April 9, 1997, on extraterrestrial intelligence, recovered extraterrestrial hardware and reverse engineering of downed E.T.
	aircraft you claim you've been at.
	By the way, You live in Pahrump, Nevada.
	You know where Pahrump is, right?
	No, I don't.
	You don't, alright.
	It's over the hill from Area 51.
	Okay.
	It's an area they say doesn't exist, of course.
	Now, up the street from me, not very far, we've got a VFW.
	And every morning at about 4, 30 or 5, they've got about 5 or 6 buses sitting there at the VFW.
	And plastered all over the side of each one of them is Area 51.
	It says it right there.
	Area 51.
	And all the people, you know, a lot of the people who live here in Vermont that work at Area 51.
	Oh, goodness.
	And one day I'm going to go up there with a camera and take a picture of that.
	But I don't really need to because we've got photographs of Area 51.
	I just got the most remarkable photograph of Area 51.
	I'd love to see that.
	Oh, it is cool.
	And it's the best one I've ever seen.
	I'm waiting for the men in black to come and get me.
	Did they show the three hangers?
	Are the three hangers still there?
	Yes, sir.
	Uh, okay.
	Center hangar is where I had my little ride.
	And, uh... You... Now, now, wait.
	Let's back up here.
	Okay.
	How does anybody ever get into Area 51?
	Ha!
	It's a long story, Ernie.
	You got time?
	Well, uh, yeah.
	Okay, here we go.
	Um... You remember I was building all these rockets?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Well, the rockets were progressive.
	They kept getting bigger and bigger, faster and faster.
	Sure.
	So, finally, um... The mass and stuff I was using, uh...
	I started changing one day with me, and I started designing a different type of engine.
	I didn't really push all I could in the liquid fuel areas.
	Solid propellant really was less practical than the liquid fuels in performance.
	So it's time to take a look at another engine.
	Well, at that time, there were several other alternative engines, but NASA would never even look at them.
	I don't know why.
	I guess because von Praning set the good salesman.
	Uh, the government on liquid fuel technology engines.
	But, uh, this engine I built for my rocket is an electromagnetic confusion containment engine.
	Whoa!
	What is that?
	Why is that?
	Um, best way to describe it is it's like a chunk of the sun inside a magnetic bottle.
	And at one end you can punch a hole through it with a type of plasma beam that you can open up the orifice field.
	And when you do that you have, um, You're getting ahead of me, David.
	Okay.
	Is it a fusion reaction?
	Right.
	It's a fusion reaction.
	You collide with the particle's accelerators.
	You can collide deuterium and uranium together.
	And so you get a fusion reaction and you hold it all in a containment with electromagnetics?
	Right.
	Let me back up to the beginning of all this.
	I started working on this design, and as years went on, I was about 15 years old, when I come to the end of my math capabilities, I just could not extend the algorithms of this thing, which would map out a containment field.
	You've got to understand, this is 1969.
	Right.
	There's no laptops, there's no CDs, no hard disks, no CD-ROM drives.
	There's no cellular phones, no faxes, no beepers.
	All I've got is a chalkboard, pencil and paper, and a slide ruler.
	Handheld calculators didn't come out until about eight, nine years later.
	That's right, that's right.
	So I am down to bare bones with sticks and spoons here, bud.
	And I've worked math, math, math until I was working in something I didn't even know a name for it really until later.
	You all call it quantum mechanics.
	So in the quantum physics area where I was working in the math area, I just come to the end of my rope.
	So my science teacher, if you imagine a high school science teacher, got a deal with me.
	He looked at my math work and he took it over to some colleagues at Ohio State University.
	They looked at it and they're going, How did you get this?
	It looks like it's from Cambridge.
	And he goes, no, man.
	It's from this kid out here in the cow fields.
	So anyway, they put a stamp on it and mailed it.
	There's no other way to mail mail, y'all.
	So they mailed the thing over to Cambridge, England to a little guy named Stephen Hawkins.
	Hawkins takes a look at it.
	Steve Hawkins?
	Yeah.
	And he finds it interesting.
	And three weeks later, I'm taken to Ohio State there on a summer vacation.
	To see some people and my science teacher takes me there, Morris Martin takes me there and we get there and we go in the room.
	First thing I see is all my math scattered all over the drawing boards and I kind of get a little upset about that.
	Who's messing with my work?
	And I hear this little voice yell, your work indeed.
	I go, yeah.
	And I take a closer look and I went, oh, somebody else's work.
	I went, science, you can change that down on the lower end of the board there.
	And this little guy stands up with a cane.
	He goes, indeed.
	And he said, show me.
	I said, sure.
	Watch this.
	This is how you can validate this theorem.
	So I do this, this, this, and write this down.
	And he goes, how do you validate it?
	And I said, rocket engine.
	So he went, holy smokes.
	He said, have a seat.
	And that was Stephen Hawkins.
	And he had come to Ohio State for a couple of reasons.
	He worked with a place called Battelle Memorial.
	It's a big think tank up there.
	and I think this was 1969, the beginning of it, or no, summer of 69.
	And we sat there and we talked for a while.
	So for about two days while he was doing some work with Patel, I spent time with him and
	he was a big help in the math area.
	I bet.
	See, this is what, 30 years ago?
	Sure.
	Nobody knew anybody, you know, Hawkins.
	He was in his early 20s.
	He was still a young guy, but we kind of hit it off pretty well.
	He was a real nice guy.
	He was even frail then.
	He was on a cane, you could tell there was something bothering him.
	Anyway, the only thing we could come up with after we got through, and he was stuck in the same area I was, we'd both come to the end of our rope in the algorithms, because we needed very powerful, fast computers, and we had nothing available at the time.
	So we could only sustain the field maybe for five seconds, but let me tell you, five seconds is a lifetime in a rocket engine.
	Five seconds can be a long time indeed.
	It's a lot of big burn time, boy, and that's what we did.
	All right, David, the rest of it when we come back.
	We're at the bottom of the hour, everybody.
	David Adair is my guest.
	And we're going to be talking about the other space program as well.
	from the high desert near dreamland this is coast to coast AM
	this is coast to coast AM this is coast to coast AM
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	call art bell toll free west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255 1-800-618-8255
	east of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033 1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	Good morning from the high desert.
	My guest is David Adair.
	He's a rocket scientist.
	He'll be back in a moment.
	Listen.
	Many, many months, maybe a year ago, I began to talk to you about the changing weather.
	I just got a fax from Keith, who's faxed me for a long time, who writes the following.
	Hey Art, The local ABC Channel 10 here just had the quote, and I'm quoting, doomsday winter forecast for California.
	This was not your normal story.
	It was big, bad, and scary.
	See on the arc, Keith.
	There is an El Nino building now that is beginning to bring forecasts of winters and rain.
	For example, in my area of the southwest, always my area, right?
	300% more than normal.
	If that happens, Keith's right.
	Time to start the concrete boats again.
	Oh well.
	Was fun while it lasted, huh folks?
	Okay, back now to David Adair.
	By the way, David, on this photograph of Area 51, I'm probably going to go to jail for something.
	There are three main, it looks like, hangars.
	Two, and then one, kind of offset or back from the one in the center.
	Right.
	The one in the center would appear to be, and I'm only guessing, a little larger than the other two.
	It is.
	That's the one you're referring to, right?
	Right.
	All right.
	Anyway, we'll take it from where we were.
	Okay.
	There you are with the calculations.
	You're talking about this new rocket motor.
	Right.
	And how do you get from there to Area 51?
	OK.
	Before I continue, I was going to say, you just said something about losing weight.
	I don't know if you really want to do that, Art.
	Because, see, mass floats better in water.
	With 300% increase in rain coming your way, you might want to consider that.
	Well, actually, I was smart enough to build a pretty good place.
	All the water runs downhill from here.
	But I know a whole bunch of people down below me.
	Yeah?
	They should be building quickly.
	I think they should pay attention to you.
	You seem to have a handle on some things.
	Well, this is no joke.
	You know, this changing climate, this El Nino, the temperatures in the Pacific, even all the way up through the Bering Sea.
	Right.
	Scary stuff, David.
	It's going to get worse.
	Yeah.
	But it's, well, we'll get off tangent.
	I'll better go back.
	Yeah, let's try.
	I want to find out how you got to Area 51.
	Okay, so with Hawking's help there, now I've got somewhat of a field stabilization for five seconds.
	Let me explain to you what same an engine can do and why I wanted to go that route.
	Hawking was working on black hole theorems and so his math and mine were like parallel.
	They were kind of like a road going down the road.
	We're two separate lanes but we're heading in the same direction but we have different
	functions.
	He was trying to get all the theorems necessary to regulate singularities in the event horizon
	of a black hole.
	I'll try to make it more simple but he was trying to prove how black holes function.
	I was just wanting to replicate a black hole type field because see when a black hole is
	in space there's only one thing we know that can swallow the sun and it's gone and we never
	see it again.
	What is it?
	Black hole.
	A black hole.
	So therefore if you want to contain the field, contain a hydrogen fusion detonation, what
	is it going to be?
	A black hole.
	So, I was just trying to get a shell containment so I could contain this thing.
	I did it through a tutorial compressor-type cone shape in the mass waveform, and that gave me exactly what I was looking for in a containment field.
	His math really helped me establish the waveform guides which was necessary for that field
	establishment.
	So anyhow, that was done.
	So I started ordering parts and it wasn't long before I had tapped out my resources
	for pulling in all the necessary materials.
	So a local congressman in the area, my local congressman in Ohio at that time was a man
	named John Ashbrook.
	I don't know if you remember the name.
	He even ran for president in 1972.
	No, I don't.
	Anyhow, he was a pretty solid Republican congressman in the area and he was pretty influential in Congress.
	It was a strange relationship we had, somewhat stressed at times.
	He really came across with some major funding.
	It was a huge amount of money, even in those days.
	So the reason he funded it was because he called some other people, they looked at what I was doing and they said, fund this kid.
	And they did.
	How old were you then?
	At this time I was about 16.
	I just turned 16.
	So I'm building this design and all this stuff and I think Hawkins had a lot to do with it because he was sold on the idea that this thing could work.
	So anyway, funding came through.
	In addition to funding, also authorizations of congressional level came through because I needed some fuel pellets from Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
	When that happened, another person showed up at the time on the scene.
	This guy was a retired general named Curtis LeMay.
	Curtis LeMay?
	Right.
	I served under Curtis LeMay.
	Did you really?
	Yes.
	Well, his parents lived in Mount Vernon, Ohio where I lived.
	You can look up in his Iron Eagle autobiography, flip to the back, you'll see his parents listed there and the dates.
	There's a newspaper story done about me and my rocket and it's Mount Vernon News in the same day.
	It puts everything together.
	My mother was an LPN.
	She was LeMay's caregiver to his parents.
	It's a small world, isn't it?
	Anyhow, the Congressman asked LeMay to come in and help on this thing.
	LeMay hated retirement.
	God, he hated that.
	And he did some consulting work.
	He just couldn't find things that satisfied him.
	He came in on this project and looked at it and apparently the congressman had asked him just to interface this thing and walk it through.
	And when I met LeMay, he scared me to death.
	He was a big guy.
	He had a stogie that would go from left to right in his mouth all the time.
	And anyhow, once everything was completed and the rocket engine was done, Where did you build this thing?
	The big machine shop that I had.
	Okay.
	That my dad retired from all the racing enterprises.
	Okay.
	So when he was injured, he retired, we left Charlotte, North Carolina, Charlotte Motor Speedway, and we moved to Ohio, and we took our big machine shop, left us up there.
	I see.
	Okay, so there's the facility.
	And the technical expertise was pouring through my little head, and the machine expertise was coming through Dad and some other friends, and the funding came from the Congressman, and the authorization clearance came from the Congressman in LeMay in the Air Force, which primarily Willie did get involved in this thing pretty heavy.
	So we ended up going to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, and there they loaded the rocket and me on a C-141 Starlifter, and off we went to I don't know.
	I got a lot of technical data.
	With the funding I got I could buy off the shelf stuff which was really nice, day to
	the hour at the time.
	I could get the altimeters, I could get the generators, thrust vanes, I could go on and
	on.
	Just all the stuff that goes inside a rocket.
	But the difference with this thing was the cyclotron detonator area which was basically
	the heart of this engine.
	David, how was all this funding managed?
	Did it just jump into a bank account for you?
	No, the way they did it, they ran it under an educational grant and it would come through and the congressman's office would handle the disbursements.
	All I would do is turn out the requisitions to him and I would already know where I needed the stuff.
	Worked the paperwork through.
	I'm only 16.
	This is an incredible story.
	I'm not into all this stuff.
	I'm just trying to build an engine, period.
	Then the Congressman jumped in.
	He was really helpful in that area.
	He supplied the logistic reports, which I'm sure he was doing that to cover his butt, because he would have to show this in some kind of physical report.
	I just stayed focused on the engine and the designs and everything.
	So you went to White Sands?
	Yeah, we ended up at White Sands.
	We land there.
	Ron Braun told me to be careful of some people I might run into.
	He kind of gave me some warnings about some things.
	Even LeMay stayed back at Wright-Patterson.
	He told me to be careful.
	He said, boy, you're getting in some very touchy areas.
	You could be in trouble.
	What I do wrong, actually you did nothing wrong, but it's what you're building that could be a real problem.
	So it started getting a little, I could sense something was not right.
	So I had told my dad previously that he always smoked a pipe and I said, if anything goes bad, and I call you and tell you just light your pipe, take it easy, I want you to burn everything in the shop, in the lab, everything.
	Tear up the models, the prototypes, just crush nothing left.
	So he understood that part.
	We end up at White Sands.
	I get there at White Sands and it's now June 20, 1971.
	I'm now 17 years old.
	We prepped the thing for launching and the colonel told me that there may be a plane coming in.
	He said, if it's a black plane, we may have some interesting people.
	Well, sure enough, this black DC-9 comes in and out steps all these people in suits with mirror sunglasses.
	The colonel is going, Oh God, D.O.D.
	And I went, What is D.O.D.?
	He said, Department of Defense.
	And this one guy stepped out, he was an older guy, just silver, white hair and blue eyes, wearing a little khaki outfit.
	And I recognized who he was from Bon Bon.
	He showed me pictures of this guy before.
	Who was he?
	His name is Dr. Arthur Rudolph.
	You ever heard of him?
	I've heard the name.
	Yeah, you should.
	He's the senior design chief, chief architect of the Saturn V engines of the Apollo program.
	And he shows up.
	I thought that was interesting.
	So he comes over and I ask him, hi, what's your name?
	He gives me a name like Henry Wilkerson, this snow white hair, blue eyed guy with a German accent and his name is Henry.
	And I'm maybe 17 at the time, but I'm going, there's something wrong with this picture.
	But I just knew who he was anyhow, so I knew he's not telling me the truth already.
	So I ask him, what do you do?
	And he goes, oh, I just go around looking at things for a friend of mine now and then.
	Yeah, right.
	DC-9, we just buzz in.
	Yeah, sure.
	Well, I'm 17, and I think, yeah, you know, I'm just a naive kid here, and I'm just going along with it.
	I may be 17, but I'm about 45 years old inside.
	So I'm picking up all these adult innuendos that they're just passing right by me, in front of me, to one another.
	And I thought, okay, I'll just be dumb.
	So anyhow, when he asked, can I see your inside of your rocket?
	I said, sure.
	So he's on one side of the rocket, I'm on the other.
	I slide open the panels.
	He looks down at the engine and when he's looking down I lean over right in his ear and I go, in proportional size it has 10,000 times the power of your F1 Saturn V engines, Dr. Rudolph.
	Man, he straightens up real fast and he looks white and then he gets real angry.
	Yeah, who am I?
	I said, I'm just a kid that builds rockets in Ohio and I'll launch them in a cow field, you know.
	So I never really talked to him.
	The Air Force people went ahead and We started prepping the thing for launch.
	So the rocket takes its place on a pad about 12 miles away.
	And it fires up.
	And Stephan was right about something.
	He said, I'm not sure about this power curve.
	And I went, you know, Mr. Hawkins, I absolutely agree.
	I'm not sure about this either.
	Because when the engine took off, it was a little bit more than I was expecting.
	Uh, it left so fast we didn't see it.
	Have you ever tried to see a rifle bullet leave a barrel?
	No.
	Kind of hard.
	I have seen slow-mo pictures of rifle bullets leaving, uh, muzzles, but I, you know, I've never seen one.
	No, of course, not at regular speed.
	Well, that's what it's like trying to see this thing.
	You're saying it took off that fast?
	You can't see it.
	You never did see it when it left.
	Straight up?
	It left so fast.
	The blast on that thing was a concussion wave that made it all the way to the bunker where
	we were.
	Right at the second of ignition the flames went to the light of an arc welder.
	I knew what happened.
	Boy, the detonation took place, the containment fills up and the desert floor is now staring
	up at the engine at the surface of the sun.
	So it took off.
	These engines run hot, these things run about 100 million degrees centigrade.
	Any plasma physics or this type of fusion containment drive will run in those areas
	at temperature range.
	So it's pretty bright.
	So bright you can't even see the exhaust.
	It's like the sun.
	Well, what nozzle would contain such a temperature?
	You don't.
	You extend the field out.
	You extend the field outside the system.
	You can do that with a tutorial system.
	If you look at it, they use that same kind of system on a fusion magnetic containment compressor for a nuclear reactor.
	That tutorial system compressor works inside the Soviet Union's Tamaka Breeder Reactor.
	I can extend the field in a certain direction in a cone shape so it goes right up through the Pacific impulse area.
	However, when I did finally catch up with my rocket, the fins, that very iron part, they were just gone.
	They vaporize in the heat.
	I'm sure.
	It left out of there, but before it left, Rudolph insisted that I would change the trajectory coordinates on this thing so it come down 656 miles northwest of us, about 120 miles north of Las Vegas, in an area called Groom Lake.
	And that's the only name I ever heard.
	I never heard of anything in Area 51.
	They always called it Groom Lake back then.
	Well, it's Groom Lake, right?
	So this thing, did it have a guidance system?
	Sure.
	It had a guidance system.
	Oh, I see.
	So at that point, you didn't know what Groom Lake was.
	No, I didn't know.
	The only thing I thought was kind of strange, I told them, look, I launched out of cattle fields for the last five years.
	I can bring this thing right down in our little heads.
	We don't have to walk more than a thousand yards to pick this thing up.
	Why are you guys shooting this thing so far out?
	They said, just do it.
	I said, and they got a little bit upset.
	I went, fine.
	So I did what they wanted.
	When it was confirmed it landed there, they said, get on the DC-9.
	And I'm getting on the plane.
	I go, you know, this may be stupid on my part, but let me point something out.
	You've got struts and rubber tires under this wing.
	Do you see them sitting there?
	We're going to land in a dry leg bed.
	This thing is going to bury up to its belly.
	They told me, don't worry about it, kid.
	Get on board.
	So we get on board.
	An hour and 40 minutes later, we're there.
	And sure enough, don't worry about it, twin 10,000 foot runways with interconnecting taxiways and a 42,000 acre Air Force Base there.
	And it's not on any of my maps.
	It's not on any maps.
	I know.
	I'm going, why is this?
	And they said, they wouldn't answer.
	You know, everybody's quiet.
	I'm going, God, here we go.
	So we land.
	And at the very south end of the area, down there below the end of the runway zone, out a little further, I could see my parachutes up my rocket and it just did a nice soft impact.
	Wow.
	So there I was sitting there and I thought, well, let's go look at my rocket.
	I can't wait to see it.
	Well, of course.
	It's exciting.
	So I start to walk toward the rocket and these guys with these cute little hats and scarves that they wear grab me and throw me in this golf cart looking thing.
	And we take off riding, but we head for these really weird looking hangers.
	They're low.
	They're lower than most hangers, but they're big.
	Yeah.
	They're really deep.
	Yes.
	And light.
	I agree.
	And it's got these weird looking lights on top.
	Did they show that?
	There's a real strange looking lighting system on that thing.
	I can make out something, but it's... It's kind of a rectangular type light with like louvers in it, and it's just really strange looking lights, and they're all across the roof line of all the hangers so they could flood that whole apron area up.
	I just, you know, I just haven't noticed things like that.
	I'm curious about how do you make these things work, but we went for the center hanger.
	It's a little bit bigger, and we got inside.
	It's about the size of four football fields.
	Yup.
	In a square.
	Yup.
	And we're sitting there and everything is an empty hangar and I thought, well this is cool, this is nice, they're showing me a nice empty hangar.
	And we're sitting there and nobody is saying anything.
	And then these lights come on and start, they look like the old police lights, they're called party hats, and they start flashing.
	And then out of the floor comes all these little chains that make like a guard rail and they come across the door areas, even the small... Wait, wait, wait.
	Out of the floor came what?
	Have you ever seen on a carrier when an elevator goes down on a hangar deck, you see these little chains come up out of the floor?
	Yes, yes.
	That's what this thing did.
	So all these things came up, and I thought, I've never seen that before, and I'm going, wow, I wonder what that's for?
	But I'm assuming that the whole floor, this giant thing drops out from under, it's an elevator, and we're going down.
	Oh my.
	And it's, I mean, it's a huge, oh my God, it's the biggest platform I've ever seen.
	And the first thing I thought of, man, what in the world have you been taking this thing down?
	Because you can't use cables to change, you know, like an elevator.
	Sure enough, looked over there and there's huge worm screws.
	A worm screw is the thing that turns the lipstick.
	When women turn their lipstick, get the lipstick come out, that's a worm screw.
	All right, hold that thought.
	We're at a very critical juncture here, so we'll be back to you after the break.
	David Adair is my guest.
	And if you want to know the hangar he's talking about, take a look at the picture.
	In fact, grab it.
	The Area 51 picture that I've got up on the web right now.
	Before somebody grabs it from me, you'll see the center hangar he's talking about.
	Right-hand side of the photograph.
	Absolutely incredible.
	This is CBZ.
	Well I think it's time to get ready To realize just what I have found
	I have been only half of what I am It's all clear to me now
	Hey, Holy Fool's Ravishing and
	And I hate it, falling in love with you Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line.
	at 702-727-1295.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	Once again, here I am.
	My guest is David Adair, and this is getting absolutely wild.
	David, as a young child, was a rocket scientist.
	Building rockets.
	Eventually, he began consulting with Stephen Hawking.
	People of that caliber built a rocket engine, a fusion engine, took it to White Sands.
	I'm going through this very quickly now.
	Launched from White Sands.
	It came down in a place known as Groom Lake.
	His rocket came down in Groom Lake.
	They put him on a black DC-8, black of course, right?
	And transported him from White Sands to Groom Lake.
	David got out of the airplane, tried to go to his rocket, was prevented from doing that.
	Taken to the center hangar at Area 51.
	Center hangar, the one in the middle.
	I've got a picture of Area 51 up there for now until they get me.
	So you go up there and look, and you'll see the center hangar.
	That's the one he's talking about.
	Big hangar.
	He'll tell you how big in a moment.
	Went inside, and the hangar was empty.
	Suddenly, The floor began to lower, just like that of an aircraft carrier.
	It was a gigantic elevator.
	And that's where the story will be picked up in a moment.
	I just condensed two hours.
	David Adair is a very, very interesting individual.
	Yes, Area 51.
	Go take a look at that picture.
	Couple of announcements.
	Nice to be on our new affiliate in Tucson, Arizona, which is... KNST.
	KNST in Tucson.
	They're 790 on the dial, and I suspect you can hear us real well.
	We'll be here from 10 to 3.
	That is the full show, Tucson.
	So you ought to call them up and thank them.
	In this photograph of Area 51, you can tell the person was hiding behind a rock that took it.
	You can't get that close anymore to get this kind of photograph.
	That's up on my website.
	I want to say, go buy Art Belstock in the Rogue Market.
	You'll see it right there under the New Items.
	Click on it.
	It'll take you over to the Rogue Market.
	Answer their little questionnaire and they'll give you $10,000 Rogue Dollars.
	Answer more and they'll give you $15,000 Rogue Dollars.
	Buy Art Belstock because Art Belstock is trying to catch up and pass certain other people in the talk radio area.
	You'll see when you get there.
	Buy, buy, buy!
	All right, this is an incredible story.
	Absolutely an incredible story.
	But you know, David Adair testified under oath in front of Congress, April 9th, 1997, about what I guess you're about to hear.
	So remember that.
	He testified under oath to Congress.
	David, welcome back.
	Thank you.
	All right, so here you are in this middle hanger, and the floor starts dropping.
	Yeah.
	Well, I was going to mention before we get started, you're absolutely right.
	This is a story that I told Congress, and I'm under oath.
	I'm facing 20-year federal prison for perjury, if I lie.
	And they assigned a little task force of their own to do paper trails, and I'm off the hook.
	Who called you to testify in front of Congress?
	Dr. Stephen Greer.
	Dr. Stephen?
	Oh, of course, Dr. Greer.
	I've interviewed Dr. Greer many times.
	Yes, he really put a bait out there.
	I went for it.
	It's just possible that we might get a disclosure on information, and that's why for 27 and a half years I did not tell a single human being.
	I understand.
	Let's continue with the story.
	So the floor is dropping in this hangar.
	Right.
	And I was looking at the worm screws.
	They're huge.
	They must be about in diameter.
	They've got to be the size of a semi in diameter.
	And they're giant.
	There's 12 of them.
	And they're lowering this floor down.
	And we're going down rather quickly.
	And the floor must weigh hundreds of tons.
	And the worm screws can carry tremendous loads.
	Whatever they roll out on this thing is pretty heavy.
	So we go down, I guess, about Oh, it must be about 200 feet.
	Wow.
	So we get down and boy, the floor flushes out.
	This hangar bay down there, it is so huge.
	It's like a rainbow roof design.
	But the walls, they don't really curve, they taper at an oblique angle.
	And all the labs and the shops and the work bays are built into the to the mountain underneath, so the center bays are open and they're not obstructed by anything.
	It's a huge thing.
	That sounds just like ID4.
	Independence Day.
	Independence.
	Oh, okay.
	Remember when they took the president and so forth and everybody went into Area 51?
	Right.
	Whoever did that movie, they got somebody to come out to talk because some of that stuff was correct right down to the door handles, the way it looked.
	But, um, the lighting, they kind of missed the light.
	The lighting was really neat.
	This was kind of an iridescent, indirect lighting.
	I really couldn't see where the light sources were, except it was just like panels throughout the entire roof system.
	But, um, we went down this huge bay.
	It just stretched, looked like forever.
	And, um, you could park three or four, um, oh, you could park about half a dozen 747s down there and not be in the way of anything.
	I mean it's just huge and we were in the golf cart and once we got flushed out with the floor we took off and we went down to there and we were just going down through the hangar area and all the workshop bays doors were closed when I was going through there so I really didn't see anything other than a couple of interesting aircraft.
	I did see an SR-71.
	The XB-70 was there.
	Do you remember that?
	Yes.
	There were two of them built.
	One crashed.
	The other one now is in the museum in Wright-Patterson.
	One of them was sitting there.
	There were a couple of other experimental aircraft.
	I just didn't recognize them.
	They looked like a teardrop.
	The front blunt part of the teardrop would be the forward section that would be moving forward through the air.
	I've never really seen anything quite like that since.
	But we went on down to there and we got to this one big set of doors.
	It's like a work bay area.
	They got out and turned the dials and the thing unlocked and the doors slid open and I thought well this is going to be interesting.
	I guess whatever it is they want to show me it's in here.
	So we get in and as soon as the doors opened the lights came on automatically.
	Nobody had to turn any switches on.
	It's the way that room was lit that was really interesting.
	The lights were the entire length of the room and they went into a rainbow type arc.
	The best way to describe that is something you can relate to, a paint booth that you paint cars in.
	There are no shadows cast in a paint booth.
	If you're painting a car and you've got a shadow, you can get a run in the paint and not see it.
	This room was lit the same way.
	There were no shadows anywhere on the floor.
	I thought, boy, that's interesting.
	So anyhow, there was this big thing, whatever it was, sitting on a huge platform-type table, and it looked to be about the size of a school bus or a Greyhound.
	We pulled the tarps back, and my engine is about the size of a football in my rocket.
	When they pulled these tarps back, there sits a thing that's a twin of my engine, but it's the size of a school bus.
	It's an engine.
	And I'm going, holy cow, man.
	I was kind of impressed and kind of disappointed.
	I thought I had an edge on this engine, but obviously I didn't.
	And they pulled it all back and they asked me to take a look at it.
	And I went, God, this is fantastic.
	Look at the size of this thing.
	So they said, yeah, we've got some problems with it.
	I don't know if you could give us some clues on some things.
	And I started thinking, well, you know, is this your engine?
	They go, oh yeah, our people have been working on it, but the people who are working on it are somewhere else right now, and we'd just like to have your input.
	And I'm going, something's wrong with this picture.
	Okay.
	So, I asked them, I said, you know, we're getting ready to launch Apollo 14 at this time.
	This is June 20, 1971.
	Yes sir, I do.
	You know, I listen to Anita Bryant, and so I just played along, you know, okay, yes sir, I'd be glad to help my country.
	So they said, fine, why don't you take a look at this thing?
	And I walked away, you know, yeah, you lying nugget.
	I listened to Anita Bryant and so I just played along and said yes sir I'd be glad to help
	one time.
	So they said fine why don't you take a look at this thing and I walked away and they said
	yeah you lying nugget.
	So I get to the engine and the first thing I notice that's really strange is there's
	a shadow in the engine.
	Now, there's no shadows on the floors anywhere, so how can we get a shadow in the engine?
	Yeah.
	And it's a silhouette of me, so I back away from it.
	It dissipates.
	I get up closer, and it gets very defined.
	I thought, well, that's interesting.
	So I reach out, and I told the guy, I said, I need to crawl up on this thing and take a look at it.
	He said, fine, but be careful.
	So anyway, I put my hands on this thing, and there's these outer panels, which I guess are like cooling baffles.
	The configuration of things is different.
	Let me try to explain it.
	If my engine is the old rear-driven engine car from Detroit, that's a power plant and you see where the powertrain is.
	The new cars are side-driven and the powertrain flow is different.
	They both are engines, but the powertrain flows are different.
	That was our difference in our engines.
	Their power flow was completely different the way they rounded the plasma drives.
	So anyway, when I put my hand on these panels, which were almost translucent, the minute my hands went against the metal, you could see, through these panels somewhat, you could see this real neat energy-type swirls coming off wherever my skin was touching it, going out through the metal.
	Wow!
	So I pulled my hands back, and I go, it stops.
	And I put my hands back on it, and you see the swirls again.
	I thought, wow, heat!
	Recognition alloy.
	Gosh, I didn't know we even had that.
	I don't think we did.
	So anyhow.
	In other words, you think you were staring at something not of our technology at all.
	I already knew before I even got up to it.
	This thing is just, it's not ours.
	It's not theirs.
	It's Soviet.
	It's something else.
	And they're not telling me the whole story on any of this.
	And you were there because you had built something That's almost like a baby twin of it.
	A baby twin.
	And so I now understand why you were at Area 51.
	Now you know why they routed my rocket there.
	Because now they have my rocket and me on that base.
	And it's not good for the camper right now because I'm crawled up on top of this thing and I see what the problem is.
	Once I get up on top of the engine and start walking down it, which, I mean, it's a rush.
	I mean, you build something that's almost like it, but it's only the size of a football.
	Now you're walking on the same design.
	Yeah, I mean, you just had to be there to appreciate this.
	But right in the center.
	See, our power flows run like an infinity circle.
	We build the power flows in an infinity design.
	That's how I can get a gravitron field to stabilize and then hold the containment field.
	Right where the figure 8 crosses each other, in the center, a good description, somebody once said it's like the eye of the hurricane, and it is.
	That's where the main core drives are, and this thing had a core breach.
	It dropped its field, and the alloy of this engine is now exposed to 100 million degrees centigrade.
	It vaporizes everything.
	The blast is going outward, but the fail-safe system of this design is when that thing's field goes down, It shuts it's own power off in a nanosecond, in a billionth of a second.
	So imagine an explosion starting, but it implodes on itself to snuff itself out.
	So it's like a pulse.
	Exactly.
	That's real good, Art.
	So anyhow, it takes it's pulse and it stops.
	It just shuts itself off.
	And so the blast only went out about four feet in diameter, vaporizing everything in it's path as it's blowing outward, but it stops.
	So there's this four foot diameter hole, you know, in the center of this engine.
	I yelled down to them, hey, this thing's had a core breach.
	And I said, the containment fields went down.
	And they went, well, what kind of containment fields?
	I said, well, it's a graviton field of electromagnetic generators.
	And they're looking at me, and I'm going, you know, I'm going, this is not their engine.
	So I looked at it a little bit closer, and I told them, boy, I said, the firing controls, there's no circuitry on this thing.
	They go, yeah, you want to explain that to us?
	And that's when I looked at the thing for a minute, and there is no wiring on this engine.
	I had almost five miles of wiring on my football-sized engine, because there's so much I had to contain in the control circuitry.
	This thing doesn't have any.
	Okay.
	The reason it doesn't have any, there's something strange, though, that's all over it.
	It looks like there's these little tubes, like fiber, tubes but they have a liquid in them.
	They are cascading all over this thing and right at the very top of it is a big center
	trunk.
	I'm going, this looks real familiar.
	I said, I know this pattern.
	It's a brain stem and the cascading fiber nerves coming off of it.
	All the tubing looks like a big brain wave pattern.
	And I went, that's the circuitry.
	So I started to turn around and tell them something and I told them, they asked some
	basic fundamental questions.
	Finally, I just had enough, and I said, we have an expression back where I come from in the South, this ain't from around the neighborhood, it's the boys.
	And they're looking at each other, and I went, let's do some assumptions.
	This is an engine, it comes out of a craft.
	Where's the craft?
	If it's got a craft, where's the occupants?
	God knows what he did with those folks.
	So they got angry, and the two guys have been pulling me around like a puppet.
	They're heading up there to pull me off.
	I said, I'm getting down.
	So I get down, and right where I'm getting off, I'm really angry at this time, and my hands are on those translucent panels.
	It's not the nice little swirls anymore.
	You know what it is?
	Hold it.
	Hold it.
	This is where we hang them up.
	Okay.
	Man, this is some kind of story.
	My guest is David Adair.
	He's in Area 51.
	You're with him right now.
	And I have no idea what comes next.
	None at all.
	Absolutely incredible.
	I'm Art Bell from the high desert near Dreamland.
	This is Coast to Coast AM.
	Great to be with you.
	More to come.
	Don't budge.
	I can't survive, I can't stay alive.
	I can't survive, I can't stay alive.
	You can dance, you can dance, having the time of your life.
	Oh, see that girl, watch that scene, take it sexy and free.
	Call Art Bell toll free, west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255. East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	It is indeed, and we've got David Adair here, and this is every bit as good as Independence Day.
	Holy mackerel!
	Did I manage to leave you at a hang point, or what?
	I just got a fact, all right?
	CBS is going to do a story about the creator of the Beijing Radio on Wednesday's 6 o'clock news.
	Really?
	I'm not surprised.
	The Beijing is revolutionary.
	If you want one, they're going very quickly.
	Bob Crane is the only guy who's got them.
	The number is 1-800-522-8863.
	Or wait and see it on CBS.
	CBS of course then probably they will be sold out.
	The hangar we're talking about is in the picture of Area 51 that's on my website right now.
	now.
	It's the middle hanger that you're hearing about.
	Back now, I wouldn't stop this story for all the tea in China to David Adair.
	My, my, my, my, my.
	Pick it up right where you left off.
	There you are.
	I was getting down off the engine and this time when I put my hands on the panel, I'm really angry with the situation because I just realized in a lot of things that one whack is that Here the technology is so advanced and it's being kept secret.
	Nobody has that right to lock this kind of knowledge up from everybody.
	I mean, my God.
	Well, I guess that was part of the, was it at that point, usable knowledge?
	I don't care if it's sitting there broken.
	It's still an amazing thing to look at.
	It validates we're not alone.
	And here they're lying.
	I'm just really disappointed.
	You know, it really was...
	Love the country and the people.
	Boy, I'm not happy with the government at this moment.
	So, getting down off the engine, I'm really upset and when I put my hands back in the same area where the nice little swirls were, now they look like a hurricane or a tornado ripping through the alloy.
	And I'm going, it hit me right then.
	I went, oh God, it's not heat sensitive alloy.
	It's picking up something else.
	It's picking up metal waves.
	This engine is a symbiotic engine.
	It was responding to what you were thinking.
	It's a symbiotic engine.
	And I just realized, oh god, this thing is a symbiotic engine.
	I thought, my lord, I knew right then, this is not ours.
	So what the firing order is on that, the way it works, when a pilot straps into this thing, or a crew member, or even if there is a crew member, this thing could be an ascension entity of its own. A pilot or crew would strap in and their
	mental waves would blend with this engine and that is the firing circuits. That's why they couldn't
	find any firing circuits on a thing.
	The crew walking around is the firing circuits. They're like the spark plug wires of an engine.
	I understand.
	And I'm going, my God, the pilot and crew merge with the ship. What a, what a, you know,
	in aerodynamic engineering, that's our wet dream because it would be unreal to be able to achieve
	that technology.
	Actually, even back in the conventional world, they're really working on that now, aren't they?
	Yeah, that's when I told Congress, I said, hard believe?
	I said, well, let me enlighten you boys about something.
	I said, let me bring you up to current events.
	Princeton University, you ever heard of them?
	They've got a department there being built with a guy named Dr. Bob John.
	And he's got a contract from McDonnell Douglas.
	You ever heard of those people?
	Well, guess what they're doing?
	They're building a symbiotic screening system to do the opposite.
	Keep the pilot thoughts out of the F-22 fighter, our most advanced fighter on the line right now.
	Let me explain what all that means.
	A pilot comes home, catches his wife in bed with somebody else, and he's having a really bad day, okay?
	Yeah?
	He's gotta get up in the morning and go fly this fighter, so he gets in the fighter, he straps in.
	This thing is so sensitive, state-of-the-art, firing acquisition controls and navigation, the black boxes, it can actually sense what he's feeling.
	Alright, you're now engaged in enemy for us, that's something coming at us.
	You go into a 1,600 mile an hour dogfight, if you hesitate, Unlocking controls, one half second will determine whether you live or die.
	He's having a bad day.
	He's thinking about what he just saw when he came home.
	The controls sense that, they stutter for a second, and he dies.
	They are building a system to prevent that.
	I wonder where they got the idea, y'all?
	Symbiotic systems are the way we want to go in flight aerodynamics and technology, because it's the ultimate systems.
	Also, it can be for anything, any computers, your car.
	Of course.
	It could be applied to so many things, but here I am standing, June 20th, 1971, and I'm looking at this thing, and I'm going, God, it's a symbiotic engine.
	So, they throw me in a golf cart, and we leave.
	They lock up the doors, and we're going up the elevator, and things just go from bad to worse at this moment.
	Because I hear them talking, they're all upset, they go, well he's not helping us right now, he sounds like he's not a player, they think I'm not listening, and I'm thinking about what I just saw.
	But I hear them say a term, it's the first time I've ever heard it, and it's years and years later for the public to hear it.
	It's called, We Need First Strike.
	You know, what's happening at that moment with America?
	We just bombed the daylights out of Cambodia.
	They're not even worrying about this.
	We're up to our eyeballs in war with Vietnam.
	General Westmoreland has just asked for surgical nuclear strikes, okay, because he's getting his butt kicked all over the battlefield.
	So if he does that, the Soviet Union has been supplying weapons into Cambodia, and we just bombed it.
	That's got them upset.
	They said that if Westmoreland fires one nuclear weapon, they will go full global counter-thermal nuclear war on the planet.
	Believe me, the Kremlin at that moment was not bluffing, and neither was our people in the Pentagon.
	The only reason they didn't go at each other is because of the MAD program, M-A-D, Mutual Assured Destruction.
	Right.
	Well, the only way to win MAD is whoever gets the first strike.
	You take this rocket engine of mine, load warheads on it, put it in a submarine, park it off Siberia, and the only thing the Soviets will see is white flashes, not even a blip on the screen.
	They can't retaliate, they're gone.
	So you'll take out the key military bases and the occupation centers, and you've done killed about a half a billion people in one day.
	You also have to go over and kill somebody else same day.
	China.
	So I'm sitting there going about two billion would die in this conflict if they go for a strike.
	I can't do this.
	So I have to destroy my engine.
	And that's exactly what I did.
	You destroyed your engine?
	We went upstairs and got to the hangar bay and when we pulled out, we got off the golf
	cart and Rudolph was there, Dr. Rudolph.
	I just started slobbering and boo-hooing.
	I'm really upset.
	I said, I want to see my rocket.
	You guys are going to take my rocket away from me?
	I hadn't even got to see it.
	I worked so hard, I'm crying.
	Rudolph tells the two authorities to take him down to see that rocket.
	So just get me out of the way.
	I'm laying against the hanger door.
	I reach down and I put my palm on the wheel of the hangar door.
	Do you know what's on that wheel?
	Graphite grease.
	Graphite grease?
	Yeah.
	So I put some graphite grease in the palm of my hand.
	They take me down to see my rocket.
	I get down there to see the rocket.
	I slide open the door and I tell the guys, let me check this thing for a fuel leak.
	So I was checking it and what I actually did, I reached in, I put my hand smeared across the particle accelerator chambers and closed the door and set the particle accelerators into engagement.
	Ask any physicist, what happens when deuterium meets graphite?
	Terrendous chain reaction implosions will take place.
	So I get 60 seconds before engagement of the accelerators and I just run over to the guard and say, you've got a fuel leak, it's going to explode, we've got to run for it.
	We get in a golf cart and we're taken off.
	They go, how far do we need to get away?
	I said, I don't know.
	And I really didn't.
	Well, we get about a quarter mile away, and it goes off, and it blows a hole about the size of a football field.
	And there's nothing left.
	And, uh, this limb was gone.
	So, um, um, that's so frustrating, because, you know, this engine, it has a lot more art than just being a rocket engine.
	Um, let me explain what this thing's due.
	It's not designed to be launched from Earth to space.
	It's designed to be launched from Earth's orbit into space.
	Because it's a principle that we use in Newtonian laws.
	For every action, there's an opposite equal reaction in space.
	Absolutely.
	All right?
	So the matter of a fusion reaction is coming out this thing's specific impulse, its orifice.
	It's how fast the matter moving in a hydrogen reaction.
	186,756.54 miles per second, called speed of light.
	In just a couple minutes, that shift will equal the velocity of the exiting thrust.
	Which means we have lightspeed capability.
	June 20th, 1971.
	So, Pifflin's gone.
	And, uh, we get back up to the hangar.
	Rudolph asks, what happened?
	The guard said, well, he said there was a fuel leak.
	Well, Rudolph just walked up to me and looked at me.
	He looked at me real close and he grabs my hand and looks at it and sees grease.
	And I went, oh.
	Rudolph looks me right in the eyes, those cold blue eyes, and he goes, you will be here for the rest of your natural life.
	Lock him up.
	And they did.
	They locked you up?
	They locked me up.
	Jail at Area 51.
	That's right.
	And let me tell you something about little Mr. Rudolph.
	Check your history on this guy.
	On May 24th, 1985, he was deported back to Munich, Germany, although he carried the Distinguished Service Medal from NASA, the highest award given.
	Yeah, that's true.
	The Mossad put him away where he rotted and died over there because that man killed 100,000 Czechoslovakian Jews while they were building the B-2's and metal boards.
	He was a Gestapo officer.
	Alright, I've got one challenge to you on Arthur Rudolph.
	Did I hear your guest say that Dr. Arthur Rudolph, the Saturn V program manager, had wavy, silver hair?
	That's rather interesting since Arthur Rudolph was bald as a billiard.
	Right, it was very... he looked like a little...
	Pigeon type thing, except on the sides, it was white.
	And you've got to remember, this was... When did you see his picture?
	When was it taken?
	Well, that's a good point.
	I don't know.
	This is a fact, sir.
	Okay.
	Well, listen to this.
	It is 30 years ago.
	Unless you've seen a photo of him recently, he's bald as I am.
	But, in 1971, the old boy had some hair.
	And it's white.
	Check it out.
	So, anyway...
	That's what happened to Mr. Rudolph.
	So anyway, they threw you in jail.
	Now, you're in jail.
	I mean, a real jail or what was that?
	Well, it was just a room with no windows and just a door.
	I'm sitting there.
	I was there for hours.
	And then finally, there's a big commotion in the hallway.
	I don't know how long I was there.
	I guess I was there probably six, seven hours, maybe eight.
	Finally, it's a ruckus down the hallway.
	The door opens up, and it is.
	Big silhouette of a guy with a stogie in his mouth.
	Yeah.
	Named Curtis LeMay.
	LeMay came from Wright-Parrison Air Force Base.
	When he lost track of me in White Sands, he then figured out, he pressed some people and found out where the rocket was downloaded at.
	So he shows up there, and it wasn't for LeMay, I was still Pete Proppy in an Independence Day movie with Bruce Spinner.
	Uh-huh.
	You know, if we don't get out much around here, that was a really uncomfortable statement for me.
	I could have been.
	Well, how did you get out?
	LeMay's got me home.
	You've got to understand where LeMay's at.
	He's the former head of SAC, Strategic Air Command.
	So from Wright-Patterson, it has jurisdiction over Groom Lake.
	And he put everybody in their positions before he left.
	So he may be a civilian at that moment, but he's still a four-star general that's really pissed off at this moment.
	So he's coming in the air, ranting and raving, and he's just pushing colonels physically out of the way.
	Get out of the way.
	So he puts me on his jet and we go home.
	Once we get back to Wright-Patterson, he drives me with his driver all the way back to my house in Mount Vernon, Ohio, where his parents are.
	And my parents.
	And he told me, boy, if you want to have any normal life, you have got to not build another rocket.
	And I haven't.
	And you haven't today?
	No.
	But you went in front of Congress.
	Right.
	And told this story.
	Absolutely.
	David, I'm curious.
	What kind of reaction did you get when you told this story?
	Well, one of the senators came up to me and said, name of God, which one of these things do we tackle first?
	Let's see, you're standing on top of an alien engine inside an airport base that doesn't exist and with a twin engine that you've built that matches the alien craft engine.
	I went, yeah, it's three different ones.
	Which one do you want to pick and work on first, pal?
	You know, I personally don't care whether people believe me or not.
	I lived it.
	I know it.
	And there's a paper trail that satisfied Congress, and here I am.
	Well, the only thing I know for sure is they're lying their butts off about Area 51.
	Right.
	There's a photograph.
	I've got it.
	Right.
	So they're lying about that.
	There's no question.
	Yeah.
	Everybody, I think, agrees and knows they're lying.
	But this tale you have just told, this story, That you gave in sworn testimony in front of Congress is the wildest thing I've ever heard.
	It was a calculated risk on my part, because they had me hanging in the wind, because they could easily say, we can't prove any of this, or if they didn't want to, or didn't check it out thorough enough, come up with a dozen reasons why, and I would be indicted now.
	Indicted, indeed.
	Now that you're public, since you went in front of Congress, now that you're telling the story, has anybody come to you?
	Have there been threats?
	Not a single threat.
	Nothing.
	I haven't had one threat.
	I'm not being observed.
	I'm not being tracked.
	I never bought into paranoia crap anyhow.
	And gloom and doom and all this despair and conspiracy and stuff.
	I don't think it's happening to y'all.
	What do you mean you don't buy into it?
	You walked into one of the biggest ones You might as well be Mel Gibson.
	I don't think.
	I was born in West Virginia.
	I'm a hillbilly for God's sake.
	No, I'm not a hero or anything here.
	It's just common human nature.
	We always are so quick to assume that there's evil and they plot and conspire.
	You know, they're human beings and they make mistakes.
	They're trying to deal with a very difficult problem and a PR nightmare.
	They're trying to figure out a way to get out of this thing.
	And the walls are still closing in.
	And it's like I asked one congressman, I said, you know, I've never seen Congress and the Senators so anxious about this.
	You're squirming like worms out there when I'm telling you this story.
	I got a feeling somebody's coming to dinner.
	It's not Sydney 48, right?
	I said, are you guys looking for a welcome wagon hostess?
	You know, I think there's something happening.
	They're being pressed by something.
	And they've got bigger fish to fry than me.
	Well, I'll tell you this, and I was told this by a television reporter in Honolulu.
	I'm going to be interviewing Story.
	I talked to Story Musgrave here not long ago.
	Oh, yeah.
	Apollo Astronaut.
	Mm-hmm.
	He gave a presentation in Honolulu, David.
	And at the end of the presentation, he put up a picture of an alien gray.
	And I guess without cracking a smile, he said to everybody there, these guys are real.
	That's what he said to these guys.
	He really wasn't kidding.
	I've never seen an alien.
	I've never seen a gray.
	I have never seen a UFO.
	You know, one flying around.
	I've never seen a spacecraft.
	All I had, I never worked there at 51.
	This is a one-day event in my life that happened 27 and a half years ago.
	Have you heard the name Bob?
	Of course you have.
	Bob Lazar.
	Yeah, and I tell you what, that guy, he's the best articulator of physics I have ever heard.
	You buy a story?
	I would really cut him some slack, and I would because of his ability to understand physics and articulate it.
	He really knows his stuff.
	I haven't got all of his story, but I've heard some really interesting stuff and little cute things like he's called a sports model.
	Sport model of Sausalito?
	Yeah.
	All in the same place you were in.
	Right.
	I'm sitting there.
	I am not going to be throwing any rocks at anybody.
	If you live in a glass house, you don't throw rocks.
	I don't know.
	Whatever you say, from what I've seen, man's probably telling you the truth.
	But I do know he's no dummy.
	He really knows his physics.
	The only crime I see he's committed is if he's not a physics teacher somewhere.
	Boy, he can really do a good job on that.
	I know.
	And I wish he'd become a teacher.
	He is a good one.
	But no, I would lead to believe everything Bob is saying at this moment.
	So you think there is an entirely You know, that's really difficult for me to buy, but then I look back at what I've stumbled across, and I don't know what to think anymore.
	In order for them to do that, they can't use any conventional engines.
	You can't be using liquid fuel solids.
	You see these things, my God, you know, two states away, you can see a plume of these rockets taking off out of Cape.
	So if they are going to come in and go in, they've got to be having an entirely different type of technology.
	It's very possible they've back-engineered this thing.
	I looked at it long enough.
	You've got to understand, they've had 27 years to work on it.
	They could very well have developed engines like that.
	And, uh, boy, that really hurts.
	It's like, uh, I'm working with sticks and stones out here, and you've got a big, uh, state-of-the-art machine shop.
	You know, that's the way it would be happening.
	The rest of us are fumbling around with liquid fuel technology.
	All right, David, we're at the top of the hour.
	When we come back, I would love to let the audience ask you some questions.
	It's about time for that.
	I mean, that's a most incredible story.
	Absolutely incredible.
	Phew!
	Well, I've lived it, so it doesn't seem that big a deal to me.
	Well, it does to me.
	Hold on, and we'll let the audience ask questions.
	Holy mackerel!
	Independent State Times 2.
	We'll be right back.
	Walking down the street, pretty woman The kind I like to meet, pretty woman
	I know many of you, you're not the truth No one could look as good as you
	Mercy Pretty woman, won't you pardon me
	Pretty woman, I couldn't help but see Pretty woman
	Art Bell is taking calls on the wildcard line.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	702-727-1222.
	First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	♪♪♪ Good morning.
	My guest is David Adair, an old man.
	What a story!
	What a story!
	But, you know what?
	You've got to remember it passed Stephen Greer's test.
	And you've got to remember Stephen Greer had this man testify in front of Congress.
	Let me read you a couple of faxes from Dick in Hawaii.
	Symbiotic engine?
	That's exactly what Colonel Corso described.
	This is all being verified now, as different sources begin to fill in the gaps.
	From Stan Perth, uh, Stan Perth, Stan Dale in Perth, Australia, ha ha ha ha ha, Stan Perth.
	Listening to David Adair right now, Art, I'm aware of at least, we cover a lot of ground here, I'm aware of at least one public patent covering The Mobius Strip Plasma Core Containment Concept.
	It also utilizes a mirror-filed field generated by induction from the spinning plasma in the core.
	Also, David, the lighting was probably a high-frequency one, much like the plasma globes sold in stores.
	The Tesla radiated field can induce nitrogen to ionized levels, which would give light from all angles.
	Ergo no shadows until you get too close to an object.
	That's why your hand made patterns on the engine's surface.
	It was an HF field, I am sure, even if it was a symbiotic engine.
	Regards, Stan in Perth, Australia.
	So Stan is verifying as indeed possible a lot of this.
	David Adair and you and your questions shortly.
	Alright, back now to David Adair.
	David, it's a split mix on the faxes I'm getting.
	Some people think you're totally flipped out.
	Well... Other people think you're absolutely genuine, particularly Stan Dale down in Australia just faxed me, and he is convinced that what you're saying sounds just about right.
	So are others.
	Well, like I said, I really...
	I didn't testify for the public on this.
	I testified for the Senate and Congress, and I let them make their decisions.
	How many people out there are willing to stand up and put their hand on a Bible and testify in a 20-year federal prison staring at them?
	If you think I'm lying, consider the odds I'm playing.
	Yeah, I hear you.
	I don't know anybody else in the UFO community that's done that.
	And at that point, I am not a UFOlogist or researcher or whatever that is.
	I haven't even seen one of those things.
	I work in the hard science world.
	That's where I've been for the last 20 years.
	The only thing I've observed about the UFO community, why do they do so much infighting with each other?
	I know.
	Believe me, I know.
	That's totally logical.
	Let's see what we get here.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	Where are you?
	I'm in West Lockett, Indiana, Purdue University.
	Okay.
	David?
	Yes, sir?
	When I was 17 and 18, I won two major awards.
	One from the Navy, the Navy Science Cruiser Award in 1968 at a regional science fair for a containment of a fusion using, instead of just magnetic bottles that were around at the time, using shockwaves.
	I worked with a professor, a doctor of research at Standard Oil of Indiana.
	The research lab was in Whiting, Indiana at the time.
	Dr. R. E. Probst, he was working only as a front for Standard Oil to exchange industrial secrets.
	He was German.
	He worked for the atomic bomb.
	Sounds familiar.
	He's deceased since March of 1983.
	He and I worked very closely.
	He secured patents.
	International patents.
	In German.
	For me.
	And we worked on this project from 1967, 1968 to 1969.
	I know what you went through.
	I never got as far as you got.
	So you believe him, Culler?
	Oh, I believe him.
	You know why I believe him?
	His conscience.
	He destroyed the machine.
	I know how interested the military was, because that's who gave me my award.
	The Navy.
	Vietnam.
	It's going on.
	April 1968.
	Here, I'm all over all the major newspapers from Chicago to Gary, Indiana.
	With a naval officer awarding the biggest award I could win.
	And a Calumet Regional Science Fair.
	I'm way ahead of them.
	They don't know what I'm talking about.
	They know they can get electricity, power, from this.
	But I also knew at the very time that the Soviets had used my same spherical device to detonate a clean thermonuclear explosion.
	Alright, listen, we're about out of time.
	David, how is your life at this very moment?
	That's a good question.
	That's a very good question.
	After all of that, now here you are, an adult, David.
	Right.
	How is your life?
	Actually, it's pretty successful in the 3D world.
	I work as a technology transfer consultant.
	I have for the last 20 years.
	On a couple of homes, I've done well.
	I've never ever had an incident with the military or the government or anything after that.
	Sometimes it's like a dream, you just store it away and forget about it.
	One thing that is parallel with you and I, the Air Force in 1971 gave me the most outstanding field of engineering sciences from the Air Force and I won that in 1971.
	You can check that out.
	That's interesting, you and I kind of run the same parallel in those areas in the science fairs.
	I went to the National and International Arena with that rocket.
	Well, you're blowing a lot of people away this morning, I'll tell you that.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Good morning.
	Hey, my name is Jim from Los Altos near the Santa Cruz Mountains area.
	Yes, sir.
	I'm actually from near the Fidget Man.
	I can really identify with that guy, but I wanted to talk with your guest, David, about a real specific part of artificial intelligence and AI that he talked about.
	All right.
	He, give me just a second here, he said something that led me to believe that he recognizes an existing artificial intelligence. Now
	personally I've always thought that AI is about 20 years away. And I've talked to some people at
	UC Santa Cruz who are kind of on the leading edge of this.
	But if you can give some examples of where AI is really used today.
	I've read a lot of science fiction about it, but I'd like to see where it is today.
	No, I don't know of any AIs that exist right now.
	Well, I think maybe Visa uses it to make credit applications, but go ahead.
	The closest thing I know of is Georgia Tech doing the Star Wars defense mechanisms in their computer acquisition.
	They're pushing harder than anybody I've ever seen.
	They've got to have it or their system's not going to work.
	Yeah.
	They told me it's a pencil problem at this point.
	It's not a hardware problem.
	Are you familiar with Turing, the Turing question?
	No, I'm not.
	Well, Robert Turing was one of the pioneers in the AI field.
	The guy named Marvin Minsky has written about him quite extensively.
	But Robert Turing, back in the 60s, proposed kind of like the quintessential question about
	whether AI exists or not.
	The question is, if a human being was talking to a microphone and there was a computer or
	a human behind that microphone, when you get to the point where the human being can't tell
	the difference between the computer and the human, that's when you really have AI.
	I've also, from a corporate standpoint, delved into it a bit.
	There's a guy at UC Santa Cruz that has written the chess program.
	It's not anything on the level of the IBM thing this year.
	This guy wrote this chess program and he's pretty good about beating computers in chess, but the computer is the AI that decides how to play the chess game.
	I think it's really just more of an academic field at this point.
	I'm very curious about it from a mathematical standpoint.
	I'm more curious on a philosophical level, I guess.
	It's really not my area, but I'm just curious.
	Well, the Turing question, that really is the essential question of artificial intelligence.
	The Turing question, as I said before, it says, when you can create a computer-based sentience or intelligence that can fool a human being, Then you finally arrive at the goal.
	I think we're a few years off from that, but I think that's a good test of the question.
	I think the rest of your story is just great.
	I just want to say, Art, as far as these kind of guests that you have on, I really believe these people because they're not coming from the left field.
	These are real people.
	You just happen to have them on your program.
	I got on here.
	I just happen to be on here.
	We're all telling our story.
	I'm going to get off here, but I just want to say I'm really behind your guest and you, All right, my friend.
	Thank you.
	Thank you very much for the call.
	Thank you.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hello, Warren.
	How are you?
	I'm fine.
	This is Wendell calling from Des Plaines, right outside of Chicago.
	Windy city.
	Yes.
	I wonder with the coming weather how much windier it's going to get.
	It was pretty windy over the weekend, and we battened down the hatches, believe me.
	Oh, man.
	I had several questions actually for your guest.
	David, how are you?
	Fine.
	How are you, Dan?
	I'm fine.
	Thank you.
	I'm a little tired, but I caught the show on the drive home and I didn't want to go to bed just yet.
	I find your story just incredible.
	It's fascinating.
	It's kind of unbelievable, but I do believe it.
	It doesn't surprise me at all that the government would be involved in this type of research and then try and cover it up for 20 or 30 years.
	What brought you to Tell your story at this time.
	Where are you going in this direction?
	Steven Greer had a lot to do with it.
	How did he find you?
	People heard.
	I was real quiet about it, but about nine months ago, I talked to a few friends about something that happened with me, and I really didn't give a lot of particulars on it, but it's definitely UFO technology.
	That's really rare because I rarely talk about it.
	I mostly talk about space industrial applications and how we can do that type of manufacturing space.
	But it came up and I answered some questions about it.
	People got a feeling a lot more than he's saying.
	So they called Greer, then Greer called me.
	How did Greer vet you?
	In other words, how did he Let's dig into your story.
	Oh man, I felt like I went to a sieve with the guy.
	He had hundreds of questions.
	We talked for about two solid months before the testimony.
	The more he would ask, and he'd ask things and come back and ask more things and not send you paperwork.
	Then he'd ask this and not send paper trails.
	I bet he did, because to take this story to Congress, Greer had his butt on the line big time, and Greer is one serious guy.
	He's very serious, not to be taken lightly about it.
	That was one of the things that pulled me toward him, because I have nine medical doctors in my family, and of course he's an ER doctor.
	So I just know how they think and feel and how they operate and I can deal with that and I mean that in a kind way.
	But he just finally started just coagulating everything together and he just said, there's just too much cohesion here, just everything is starting to stick together and you're checking out all this stuff.
	And then he just finally said, you've got to testify and I dragged my feet up until Four days before the testifying was to take place and I finally said, OK, I'll go.
	And they sent me a plane ticket and off I went.
	But the thing that really got me to answer the question why I did it now is because Greer wasn't sure enough, but he really had a feeling they might do a major disclosure at this meeting.
	And I was sitting there knowing what I went through.
	I thought, God, if I don't go and I miss a full disclosure, and behind closed doors and I had a chance to hear it
	uh...
	I just couldn't resist it and uh...
	so I decided to take the oath and take the risk and see if they were going to make a full disclosure maybe
	I would hear more about what I saw a long time ago so that's really what pulled me into it
	curiosity killed the cat maybe but uh...
	well I know Dr. Greer to be an incredibly careful person I'm sure that you wouldn't have been in Washington without
	being fully vetted so everybody in the audience has got to keep, certainly
	better bear that in mind as they try to judge your story
	That is incredible.
	Caller, anything else?
	Yeah, what exactly, or why was Congress actually investigating this that they brought you in to testify?
	Do you think there was a hidden agenda there?
	Yeah, but I couldn't figure out what it was because they looked as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
	And kind of afraid of what they might hear?
	Yeah, and like, you know, this is strange.
	Why are these people stepping out on a line doing this?
	They don't have to do this.
	That's the thing that really struck me.
	Congress Senate does not have to do this.
	But they went ahead and set up an official hearing, first time I ever knew of, on this subject.
	Yeah, I've never heard anything of this.
	No, not of magnitude.
	I'm going, God, what kind of party is this?
	And I'm going, it's wild.
	I'll pay my dues.
	I'll take the risk.
	I've got to see what's going on.
	I don't know what their agenda was, just to see how much we knew or whatever.
	I didn't see how far some of us would be willing to testify.
	Do you ever think you'll do any kind of research again in the future on this?
	Yeah.
	God, this thing has never left my soul.
	I can imagine.
	I was born with it.
	It's kind of like Jimmy Connors would play tennis up until about age 17 and never play again, but in a day he wouldn't think about it.
	You want to build another engine?
	That's probably the ultimate end to the question for all critics.
	It certainly would be.
	I am going to build it again.
	It's a matter of time.
	I'm just trying to get all my duckies in a row in the corporate arena because it's going
	to be a different game this time.
	You have no fear of all of the men in black knocking on your door in the middle of the
	night?
	If they do, they come and get me and cart me off and I'm gone.
	They shoot me, I'm dead.
	I'm out of here, I go back to God.
	So what?
	You know, it doesn't matter.
	All the time you're here on this planet, you're on your own loan, anyhow.
	Good point.
	Well, thank you, Culler.
	Incredible.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hi, Art.
	Hi, Dr. Adair.
	Not doctor.
	Not yet.
	I've gotten a B.A.
	and I'm on my way to master's here, but I will be.
	Sorry.
	OK, well, listen, I have to admit that this is a highly unbelievable story.
	And you know what?
	It probably is true.
	Uh, my sense of curiosity, uh, wants me to ask you to, uh, possibly for the audience, briefly describe, uh, what happens, uh, when a tritium and deuterium particle combine.
	And, uh, if you could be specific, maybe give it MEV and whatever you can just to be specific and share some knowledge with the audience just to, just to verify.
	When a tritium and deuterium particle combine in a fusion reaction, Just enormous heat energy occurs when you have your atoms fusing into that arena.
	There's also the way the tutorial design was made when the systems collided for the energy interaction on this thing.
	I got a cone-shaped effect out of the back end of the particle accelerator.
	Let me explain what the engine looked like.
	That might help.
	Alright, listen, both of you.
	Let me hold you both over.
	Both of you stay right there.
	Cool.
	Hold on, relax.
	We'll be back.
	From the high desert, this is CBC.
	I'm Art Bell.
	David Adair is here.
	Her hair is hollow gold, her lips sweet surprise.
	We left a sweet surprise Her hands are never cold
	Her hands are never cold, she's got Betty Davis eyes.
	She's got Betty Davis eyes She'll turn the music on you
	She'll turn the music on you, you won't have to think twice.
	You won't have to think twice She's pure as New York snow
	She's pure as New York snow, she's got Betty Davis eyes.
	She's got Betty Davis eyes Betty Davis eyes
	And she'll tease you Watching her emotions
	And she teases you.
	In my foolish lover's game On the Silver Ocean
	Finding lover's love No shame
	Turning every time To some secret place in time
	Watching in slow motion As you turn around and say
	Take off and run away Call Art Bell.
	West of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
	1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
	1-800-825-5033.
	This is the CBC Radio Network.
	It absolutely is.
	one eight eight two five five one eight hundred six one eight eight two five five east of
	the rockies at one eight hundred eight two five five zero three three one eight hundred
	eight two five five zero three three this is the cbc radio network it absolutely is
	my guest is david adair and i'll tell you something uh the temptation would be to say
	what a bunch of bull And I know that some of you are.
	But I know Dr. Stephen Greer.
	He's a really, really serious guy.
	He would have vetted David Adair very carefully before he allowed him to come in front of Congress.
	Very carefully.
	In fact, David Adair, under oath, After perjury and going to jail, testified to what you just heard over the last three and a half hours, April 9th, 1997, behind closed doors, was Steven Greer, Dr. Steven Greer.
	So you better stop and you better scratch your head real hard before you say, what a fish story.
	Maybe you better scratch again.
	I do this every now and then, and I'm going to do it again right now.
	Every now and then, I'll pop into a chat room, and if you'd like to come join me, come on in, the water's fine.
	It's on America Online.
	All you do is log on to AOL, go to keyword, Art Bell, and that'll, you know, click on click keyword, and just put in my name, Art Bell, any combination, letters, however you do it.
	It'll take you over to the Periscope area, and then you go into the grassy knoll, and you'll find a whole bunch of people in there.
	Whole bunch of people in there chatting, no doubt discussing this show, and saying, heaven knows what.
	So by now they believe that yes, this show is live.
	They've been debating that in there for some godforsaken reason.
	And secondly, in a moment they're going to find out how it fills up, so come on in.
	Alright.
	Alright.
	We're already getting inundated here with requests for how to get a copy of this program.
	Not surprised.
	By calling 1-800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.
	I'll repeat it one more time in self-defense.
	Please don't fax me.
	Please write down the number if you want a copy of this program.
	It's no doubt going to be a five-hour show.
	917-4278.
	The program with David Adair.
	David, we're back on the air again.
	OK.
	Have you written a book?
	Yes, I have.
	It's not published yet.
	It's called America's Fall from Space.
	About 456 pages.
	America's Fall from Space.
	And how many pages?
	About 456 pages.
	That's a big book.
	But it's not published, so there's no point, I guess, in... Not right now.
	I've got publishers coming at me, and I'm trying to sort through which deal I want.
	I understand.
	Which, I guess, is kind of an unusual cause for a first-time writer.
	It surprised me.
	Well, it doesn't surprise me, not based on what you've said and based on what you've done.
	Caller, you're back on the air again with David Adair.
	Thank you for waiting.
	Thanks.
	Go ahead. Yeah, I'm here. Good. Go. Okay. Um, you know, Mr.
	Adair? Yes, sir. I know it. I'm sure that a million people are saying that is probably the most bizarre thing they've
	ever heard in their life.
	I don't blame them.
	It really is.
	I can't see how you could make something like that up because it's just too insane to make it up.
	Can you briefly describe what led to your creation of this motor?
	What inspired you, what educational or interests that you had at that age that led you to design?
	That's an excellent question.
	Space Sciences that I worked with, it started ever since memory started.
	I had the ability even when I was seven or eight years old I was working some interesting math.
	I had a flair for numbers I guess.
	A lot of people said I was gifted and I don't know about that.
	All I know is I could do a lot of this math problems and all my work that I worked with came to me in trains of all things.
	I had an artist pad I'd sleep with even when I was a child and I'd wake up sometimes at 3 or 4 in the morning and write this stuff down and I kept a journal of it.
	When I started building rockets, dreams became more frequent on a regular basis and so I could get help.
	Strange as that may sound, while I was sleeping I actually got my best thoughts came through I was able to write this stuff down and I used to pretend I
	wouldn't tell anybody that until Hawkins told me once that almost all his stuff and
	his mess comes to him through dreams.
	So in other words, this knowledge may have come from elsewhere?
	Yeah, maybe.
	no way of saying not.
	Well, I can't prove you right or wrong, that's for sure.
	But I don't know.
	All I know is that it came to me on a regular basis when I was building the thing.
	Interestingly, some of my business partners are psychologists that work in some areas of business deals with them.
	Some of these guys specialize in sleep disorders and other problems.
	They had told me that at that time they asked a lot of personal questions about what I was doing and I told them I was consumed by this thing.
	It was like 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.
	I didn't kiss a girl until I was almost 18 years old.
	I never dated.
	Totally.
	I don't know if you didn't like me back then.
	Consumed.
	I understand consumed.
	And so it was like some kind of obsession or I think a mental disorder myself.
	But it would not leave me alone.
	And even when I would want to do things like, other things like everybody else, go play football or something like that, I just couldn't stop long enough to go do that.
	I'd be on the field and I'd have to stop because I'd have to go back to the lab.
	It just would not leave me alone.
	College has told me that that is not a normal thing.
	Sometimes you get gifted early on in life and it just consumes you like a fire.
	You're so hot at that moment.
	It's like an athlete that trains.
	They're at their peak and they're capable of great things.
	Then when you're older and you go back to try and do it, you never quite reach that peak again at that moment in time.
	I'm sitting there going, oh God, I hate to think I went through this and I can't do it again.
	Obviously, you could go that far again.
	I think I could.
	I don't know.
	Maybe I can.
	I do know that it's just not like, oh, you did it once.
	It's like riding a bicycle.
	You do it again.
	It's a little bit more complicated than that.
	Also, it's going to change my personality.
	I really don't know.
	I have a wife now and family and all that stuff and I don't know if I want to go into that mode again like that.
	I understand.
	It may tear my private life up.
	So I've been able to compartmentalize this thing for 27 years and never think about it.
	You ask people, they work on stuff.
	When was the first moment you told it publicly?
	Only about nine months ago.
	Where?
	It was in Nashville, North Carolina.
	Nashville?
	Yeah, and of all things I went in on a friend of mine who is a professional videographer was setting cameras and lights up for something called acting car, which is some kind of metaphysical thing.
	I know what that is, yes.
	And I told the guy, I said, oh God, don't tell them anything about me.
	I just put a baseball cap on and had raggedy clothes and I said, I'll set your lights up, just tell them I'm a roadie.
	So we were okay until some guy sat in there and later he turned around to me and said, Who is your channel or channeler?
	Do you channel something like that?
	And I went, HBO?
	Cinemax?
	I've got to remember that response.
	I don't know.
	They asked, Who is your guide?
	And I went, Tonto?
	I don't know.
	I have no idea what they're talking about.
	But they asked me what I do.
	And I told him that, well, I'm a technology transfer consultant and we do research in space where we can grow super electronic crystals and alloys and medical research.
	Well, the crystal thing has got them all fired up and so much for the Akincar meeting.
	Yeah, I'm sure they went wild on Crystal.
	Yeah, my friend looked over at him and he was holding his face in his hands like he dreaded it.
	And I don't know, something just struck me.
	I thought, well, this crowd is kind of remote from my life.
	I'll just throw this on and see what happens.
	And that's when... And that's how it got out.
	That's exactly how it got out, because some of these people in that crowd... Steven Greer lives in Asheville, North Carolina.
	And some of these were his neighbors, and they went over and told him.
	So that's how it happened.
	That's how it happened.
	I've got you.
	All right.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Good evening.
	Good evening.
	Good morning, actually.
	Where are you?
	I'm in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
	Philadelphia.
	All right.
	Speak up good and loud and get close to your phone.
	Okay.
	The question and answer previous was wonderful.
	In fact, it answered a lot of what I had in my head.
	But what I was wondering is if The fact that Mr. Adair, that you said you were consumed by this, sounded very similar to Mr. Doug Ruby's conversation.
	Yes.
	Didn't it?
	Now you're right.
	It did.
	And from what you just said about not wanting your life to be changed because of your situation now, it seems like Mr. Ruby, things are being made very easy for him and the fact that you have it in your heart and soul that this information is in you and I don't think it will ever go away.
	Maybe it'll be made a little easier with a little collaboration with others that also are in the same or similar situation.
	Interesting.
	Now what does Doug Ruby do?
	It's a long story.
	Doug Ruby learned how to decipher crop circles.
	Oh my goodness.
	By spinning them and seeing them in a third, in three dimensions instead of just the normal.
	Oh my.
	It's a long story, but he was consumed with it.
	But also the fact that they were engines that he was creating.
	Yes, the crop circles, David, according to Doug Ruby, actually are designs for ships and propulsion systems, much like the one you're talking about.
	My goodness.
	Yeah, it gets thicker and thicker.
	Thank you very much, caller.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Good morning.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes, sir.
	This is Mike from Fresno.
	Hi, Mike.
	Well, I think it's about three questions.
	All right, always give credit to KFRE.
	Oh, absolutely.
	All right, go ahead.
	I'm glad they got the program.
	Me too.
	And basically, having gone to school there in San Francisco, one chemistry teacher and one physics teacher set my mind into negative cancellation of waves.
	The engine you saw, you said the flow was in a different direction than the one that you designed, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	Uh-huh.
	Was that capable, do you think, of creating, since it's connected to black holes with your mathematical theory, a gravity field capable of generating gravity waves that, if out of phase, would make, would cancel, with negative cancellation, would cancel gravity as it traveled?
	Oh, what an interesting thought.
	Boy, that night, I won't sleep tonight.
	Thanks.
	That was Paul Hewitt, I think his name.
	He wrote Conceptual Physics.
	He was one of my teachers.
	And Gilbert Johnson wrote Chemical Calculations and Computations.
	They taught at San Francisco City College, but were also out of Berkeley.
	I had some pretty good teachers.
	I'd say you did.
	Anyway, the next thing is, would it be capable of producing enough power, if they applied to something like arts parts, to turn around and, over a broad spectrum, Produce electromagnetic waves that would, through negative cancellation, cancel out any reflected electromagnetic waves, making it sort of invisible?
	Is that possible?
	Would there be enough power in an engine like that?
	It would have to change the frequency vibration of the atomic structure of the immediate environment of which it's encased and around.
	Which is really, really what they did, they think, at the Philadelphia Experiment.
	That's what I understand.
	Martin's parts is made of some strange material.
	It is.
	Bismuth and magnesium are some parts that I've got.
	They still haven't figured out.
	But what he was just talking about really was kind of what they were working on in Philadelphia way back when.
	Didn't they wrap a coil around the ship?
	I forget the name of the ship.
	Actually, they had gigantic electromagnetic coils.
	They had rotating RF fields.
	And Tesla did that, didn't he?
	Yes.
	Yes, absolutely.
	East of the Rockies, you're on air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Is this David Adair?
	That's you.
	Oh, okay.
	I didn't hear East of the Rockies.
	Where are you?
	This is Atlanta.
	Atlanta, Georgia.
	Okay.
	David, I just want to apologize for the United States for cutting you off at the kneecaps when you were 16 years old.
	They should never do that to a young man, because you have a lot to bring to the table.
	I'm 44 myself.
	I got to see all kinds of things when I was growing up because my dad went from the demolition business to restoring a house in Noonan, Georgia to sinking Florida with concrete before I was 20 years old.
	So I got to be around a lot of stuff myself before I was 20 years old and that should have never been done to you and I apologize for the United States for doing that to you.
	You shouldn't have to apologize.
	I was going to mention that there were two shows on TV in the last year, Space Above and Which was sci-fi and Babylon 5, which dealt with the shadows.
	Did you ever see one of those shows?
	I've seen some of the episodes, but I don't know the shadow that you're referring to.
	Okay, the shadows were ships that attacked them that looked like they were alive, and if you can ever see those episodes, because it'd be in rerun, but they had some kind of sensual thing that was operating them, anyway, above and beyond.
	That was a similar thing where the aliens were ships that were like alive.
	In fact, in space above and beyond, they got in the ship and the ship went crazy.
	They couldn't think like they thought.
	Let me ask you something, David.
	I think it's a good thing.
	Your mind was young and you were really sharp.
	It's kind of like a delayed action stress syndrome for a Vietnam veteran.
	There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about what if.
	I don't know.
	They would have offered me everything.
	I would have had labs.
	I would have had whatever I wanted.
	God, I don't know what kind of world we would have had.
	Hey, Art?
	Yes, sir?
	Let me ask you something.
	I meant to ask you this last time.
	What happened with the cold fusion water heater?
	Oh, it's very much alive.
	We'll have Wayne Green on again, who will talk about that.
	Thank you very much.
	All right, what I want you to do, David, is just stand by.
	We'll be back to you after the top of the hour.
	This gives you a good chance to rest, all right?
	All right, yeah.
	All right, good.
	I'm sure you can use it.
	What an incredible, incredible story.
	If you have questions for David today, we've got another hour to let you ask them.
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	That's just a flat statement.
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	Well, so have I. I've got one.
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	That's 1-800-522-8863, The C. Crane Company.
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	Then by all means, tomorrow, during the day, or whenever you can manage to get through, go by my webpage, which is where the Area 51 photograph is, www.artbell.com.
	And there you will see the Rogue Market, where you can jump over, go to Talk Radio, and buy some shares.
	I'm in a very competitive situation over there, and I'm having more fun with this than I've had with anything in a whole long time.
	It's not real money, but you can trade it like it's real money, and you can actually buy stock in Art Bell.
	So I'm saying, buy, buy, buy, and the sooner you get in there, the sooner, well, the more money you make, because it's going nothing but straight up.
	Like David's rockets.
	Straight up.
	We'll be right back.
	Welcome back.
	Art Bell is taking calls on the wild card line.
	That's 702-727-1295.
	First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	Once again, I am here.
	702-727-1295.
	First time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
	702-727-1222.
	Now, here again, Art Bell.
	Once again, I am here.
	My guest is David Adair.
	What a wild night.
	And I want to remind the audience, once again, to avoid having to answer the questions a million by email.
	I'm getting them already by fax.
	If you want a copy of this program, the number to call is 1-800-917-4278.
	You can begin calling now.
	It's going to be a five-hour program.
	1-800-917-4278.
	It'll be a classic, no doubt about it.
	It's going to be a five-hour program.
	1-800-917-4278.
	It'll be a classic, no doubt about it.
	Tomorrow night.
	In fact, we've got a whole bunch of classics coming up.
	Tomorrow night, James Collier, he wrote a book called Vote Scam, and now has written a second book saying we never went to the moon.
	Never went to the moon.
	He will be here to debate Richard Hoagland.
	That's right, Richard Hoagland, who knows damn well we went to the moon, because that's when he was working for Walter Cronkite.
	That'll be tomorrow night.
	The next night there is a guest so sensitive that I can't even talk to you about him right now.
	Assuming that it all goes through and you know what happens when you assume.
	The following night, from the City University of New York, a professor of theoretical physics named Michio Kaku.
	You're really going to enjoy that one.
	And then Monday, James Van Praagh.
	So, we've got a lot of stuff on tap coming up.
	A whole bunch of stuff on tap coming up.
	It's going to be a wild time.
	uh... alright back uh... to david in a moment well this is kind of a story that'll change your life
	David Adair, back on the air again.
	David, how are you holding up?
	I'm still here.
	I'm on autopilot, but I'm still here.
	All right, all right.
	Well, we've got lots of people out there that want to ask questions.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	I have a bad connection, so I'll ask a question and hang up to listen to the answer.
	Sure.
	David, I admire your courage and your curiosity here, and I was wondering if you thought about this aspect.
	That if you're going at the speed of light, you're probably going a long distance and you want to know where you're going.
	And you're going to have to avoid some asteroids and probably stop when you get there.
	And you might want to come home, too.
	So, considering the size of this rocket, the kind of craft it'd have to be in, you know, how far could it go and where could it be coming from?
	Thanks.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	Um, golly.
	I would... I have no idea.
	I can only speculate on that.
	There's no way I could possibly know, and I can only give you an assessment on what I saw and make some projections, so bear with that.
	Certainly not omnipresent knowledge here, no all-see-all by any means.
	But for a craft to move like that, it's capable of light speed.
	It may be even better than that.
	I never got a chance to finish my work, but there was a secondary thing to this engine I would like to have done.
	I believe that the magnetic fields of this thing could be extended in a contained pattern outside the ship.
	If that could be done, then what you can create, since that field has the intensity of a black hole, you could create an artificial black hole around the craft.
	If that's so, Then you can warp space by wrapping it around you like a burrito.
	And the shortest point between two points, like A and B, is not a linear line, but rather pull the space, wrap it around you, and then it's just the thickness of those two points connecting, which on a linear plane is nothing.
	So it's kind of like a riddle that could be solved.
	How can you go thousands of times faster than the speed of light without breaking the speed of light?
	You can do that with a gravitron wheel like a black hole because we know that's the only
	thing in space that can bend light.
	When light comes at us from a star and a black hole passes between us it will actually bend
	the light.
	So you can bend time and space and that's the only theory.
	There's a movie that just came out a couple of days ago called Event Horizon.
	The engine that they have in there is exactly what I'm talking about.
	The way they've got it set up, though, is entirely Hollywood.
	It's been Hollywood eyes, and if it really can't do the way they have it set up, it'd be an entirely different setup.
	But the theory and the way they explain it is good, but from that point on, it turns to a B-movie where bad aliens chasing people to eat you up.
	But boy, they really had a good thing going in the first 20 or 30 minutes of that movie.
	They did a good job explaining how these engines could work like that.
	I only think about it now and then.
	So to answer your question, this craft could come from billions of light years and a fairly
	reasonable time that we could stand ourselves.
	Or they could have been traveling for millions of years themselves, so I don't know what
	kind of timetable they have or whatever.
	But that craft would be capable of distances we could only dream about right now.
	I'm pretty sure it could travel like that.
	David, let me take you off for a second.
	I'm certain you're aware, but a lot of the audience may not be, that Steven Greer of Seasetty and his assistant have both come down with very deadly forms of cancer.
	I'm not aware of that.
	I heard a couple rumors and when I get home I was going to give him a call and ask him.
	Steven Greer has been diagnosed with metastatic malignant melanoma.
	That's bad stuff.
	Yeah.
	And Sherry has been diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer of the right breast.
	Oh, man.
	Which has metastasized, I guess, to the lymph nodes.
	I mean, these are both really really serious cancer and i think chemotherapy coming out
	conduct i had i didn't i would heard rumors that it will
	and i really don't believe that anything can i get that first source
	no it's true and i think that
	now you know i'm not mel gibson
	and i don't believe every conspiracy theory comes along and i'm not saying
	this is one but i'm saying the odds against that but then come down
	Yeah.
	Yeah, it's a little high.
	Pretty strange odds, yeah.
	And I'll just leave it there.
	That's a shame.
	It is, and I thought the audience ought to know.
	Alright, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	I just really thank you for the quality of your work tonight, Art.
	Thank you.
	I have a question.
	I'm in WAI and I have lost the current live show.
	Where might I tune to?
	The question for your guest is, if you were able to adapt this to cold fusion and not operate at a million degrees, might you be able to make the mythical Well, actually, that's a very good question.
	I cannot tell you where to tune.
	They go to their morning show, of course, as a natural course of events caller.
	If you had a computer, you could listen to us on real audio.
	Well, get an IP provider.
	Is there a large, clear channel station like WEI?
	Yeah, there probably is.
	Try 890 Chicago.
	I bet they come roaring down there.
	I'll try it.
	All right.
	In the meantime, his question is a good one.
	Right.
	Cold fusion right now is much more of a... Let's see, what's the right word?
	Holy grail?
	No, not holy grail.
	Cold fusion is It's a much more subtle process.
	That's what I was reaching for.
	Now, obviously if we could ever harness the kind of energy you're talking about that was used in your engine and their engine, we would have all the energy we could use, wouldn't we?
	Yeah, you would, but I don't think you'd even have to go to this technology for the application.
	I was in Korea about four months ago and There was a new science symposium there, and this scientist from Japan showed the cold fusion process that our two guys here in America came out with, and then it kind of got shot down real quick.
	I forgot the two guys that did that, if you remember who I'm talking about.
	Ah, Pons and Fleshman.
	Right.
	Well, this little fellow in Japan took their design and modified it.
	That's what I've heard.
	And I couldn't believe it.
	I was sitting there watching the film that he filmed in his lab in a contraption.
	And man, I'll tell you, that guy looks like he's got cold fusion cooking.
	And he believes he has it, but he couldn't get the country of Japan to really cooperate with him.
	Now, it's very interesting.
	I understand they backed some funding away at the last minute.
	Yeah, they did.
	And I haven't quite figured out what occurred there yet.
	He was left hanging, and I've got his card, and I've talked to him a couple times.
	But he was in Korea demonstrating that and since then I've got him connected with some significant people funding over in, oh gosh, it was the people at the ESA, the European Space Agency, and they were highly interested and he's now talking to them.
	But that was really fascinating.
	It looks like he had it because the way the thing was running, it cranked up a lot of heat and power out there.
	All right.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Good morning.
	Hello, Mr. Bell.
	Hello, Mr. Adair.
	Sean from Murphy, North Carolina.
	Yes, sir.
	My wife was born there.
	Wow.
	I was wondering, A hydrogen bomb uses a fusion reaction to detonate.
	Basically, did this rocket engine use a self-contained fusion reaction and focused it to power itself?
	Yeah, that's pretty much close.
	And how did you start the reaction?
	With a small particle accelerator.
	I didn't get a chance to explain another color called and was asking something along that and we really didn't get to answering.
	I was describing what the engine looked like.
	This is not a scientific explanation, but it's pretty graphic.
	Think of two octopuses intertwined having sex.
	OK?
	It's pretty graphic, but it's pretty accurate.
	The round parts would be, on each end, are the particle accelerators.
	And the mass of the tentacles all inner round would be the mass flow for the fusion process.
	If you look at those two, you can draw a figure eight.
	So, like anything in an infinity loop, the faster it runs, the more power it provides from the reaction, which feeds self-feeding its own field.
	in an infinity loop, the faster it runs, the more power it provides from the reaction which
	feeds self-feeding its own field.
	So what's happening is no matter how powerful it's getting inside, the field is one step
	above it.
	So the field could never, the energy source could never overtake the field for containment.
	And it's in a perpetual loop.
	You've got to stay close to the phone for me.
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	And it's a perpetual loop in the figure-eight infinity pattern.
	And that's how the containment was achieved.
	I hope I answered your question.
	How do you start the particle accelerator standard?
	Standard accelerating particles where I had an outside external flow where I had a chain reaction of a detonation, a pre-detonation that started the reaction.
	I don't know if you're familiar with how the Manhattan Project device was built.
	Have you ever seen a picture of the original H-bomb?
	Jumbo?
	Right.
	It looked like a soccer ball.
	Yeah.
	And you had, at one time, if you had a soccer ball in 1945, it would have locked you up forever, because it would have been a top secret device.
	That pattern, remember all the wires going into that thing?
	Mm-hmm.
	Thousands of wires.
	Those are all mini little explosives, and the trick to that thing was, was to get all these detonations to occur simultaneously, exploding inward, at the same exact precise force which caused the reaction to go off.
	I used the same type of explosion that you remember seeing.
	I had miles of wiring in this thing.
	I had the same type of reaction on the detonation explosion that kicked off the accelerators, which then kicked off the hydrogen reaction process.
	Sort of like with a battery starting an alternator.
	Well said.
	Exactly.
	Okay, thank you.
	Thank you, Colin.
	Take care.
	West of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, Art.
	Good morning, David.
	This is Terry in beautiful Northern California listening to KSRO up here in Santa Rosa.
	And I've got to tell you, Art, I've been just thoroughly impressed with your show and the guests, and David has been The best one thus far that I've listened to over the last few years.
	Glad you're enjoying it.
	That's a way to comment because he's had some really engaging speakers on there.
	Oh yeah, it's been quite a lineup.
	But I've got to say, your story has certainly caught my attention.
	I sent artifacts requesting that you contact me about doing a movie deal.
	In fact, I'd like to talk to you about doing the book deal as well.
	I think we've got the best deal for authors going.
	If Art would pass that on to you.
	Right.
	I'm going to leave an address somewhere in the program, Art, where people can write to
	me.
	Great.
	As a matter of fact, why don't we do that and that will settle the caller's question.
	Give us an address.
	Here we go.
	108 Park Place, we're next door to Boardwalk.
	Just kidding.
	108 Park Place, Stock Bridge, Georgia 30281.
	And just put David Adair?
	If you want to worry me, I'm hanging on the edge of the outer belt of Atlanta.
	I live in Atlanta.
	David Adair, 108 Park Place, Stockbridge, Georgia, 30281.
	That's why you're in L.A.
	right now.
	Right.
	And actually, the real reason I'm here is to help finish building a house for a friend of mine.
	Yeah, I do construction work, among other things.
	Okay, where are you speaking at?
	On Thursday, this coming Thursday, the 21st, I will be speaking to the Granada Forum.
	And there's a phone number you can call for information.
	It will be at 7.30 p.m.
	And the number is 818-385-4003.
	Got it.
	And they can call that.
	That's an information number that they can get.
	Are you going to be essentially repeating the story you've been telling today?
	No, actually I'm going to talk about what I really do.
	I shape metal in space with sound waves, and we can do three-dimensional casting of metals out there.
	I'll talk about pharmaceuticals that we can make out there, electronic crystals.
	If people want to know more about what we're talking about, I'll answer questions there, too.
	All right, and your second appearance?
	My second appearance is this coming Saturday, the 23rd.
	I'll play this UFO lecture at the Orange County.
	It's also 7.30 p.m.
	and the contact number there for information is 714-760-0275.
	Okay.
	714-760-0275.
	Right.
	And you gave out your address.
	0275.
	Okay.
	714-760-0275.
	Right.
	And you gave out your address.
	What would you like to hear from people?
	Um...
	Golly, that's a great question.
	It sounds like you don't have a book to sell yet.
	No, that's the whole thing.
	I've never written anything as far as the sales stuff.
	I've just made some videotapes on all the type of work that I've done and my God, I can't believe how many tapes have been sold.
	I'm not used to this stuff so I'm kind of learning as I go here because I'm just normally a normal person doing my job.
	But I would like to know from people.
	I'll tell you what, think about that during the break.
	That's a great question, Art.
	You're good for that stuff.
	All right, hold on.
	All right, if you want a copy of this program, 1-800-917-4278 is the number.
	1-800-917-4278 is the number. That's 1-800-917-4278.
	You're dirty and sweet, like a ragged old bag.
	And I love you. You're dirty and sweet, I'll admit.
	When you're sitting in the week, you've got the tease of the high life upon you.
	You're dirty, sweet, and you're my girl.
	Get it on, and I'll call. Get it on.
	Get it on, and I'll call. Get it on.
	Call Art Vessel.
	Call Art Vessel.
	toll-free, west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255. 1-800-618-8255.
	East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033. 1-800-825-5033. This is the CBC Radio Network.
	It is, and I'm hearing from an awful lot of people that they're hearing on network TV about what we've been talking
	about here for actually the last couple of years, and certainly heavily in the last many, many months.
	Echoes of Standeo, the El Nino that is building.
	Some of the forecasts they're beginning to give for California really are frightening.
	And it's not just California.
	It's the whole Southwest.
	And that includes me.
	And when it rains, the kind of rain they're talking about, here in the desert, it's dangerous quickly.
	Some of these forecasts are talking about 40 inches of rain Days and days and days of unending rain.
	We're going to have to get a climatologist on the air, and we will do that.
	But this is a quickly now building story in the mainstream media.
	My guest is incredible.
	David Adair.
	The program has been incredible.
	And if you don't have this archived, you better get it.
	So the way to get it is to call 1-800-917-4278.
	Call 1-800-917-4278.
	1-800-917-4278.
	All right, back now to David Adair.
	And what I asked David was what you would like them to write.
	Yes, I'd like for them to write to me and request my book, let me put them on the mailing list, and give me your full mailing address and phone number so when We get the book out.
	I'll make sure you're notified where you can get a copy of it.
	All right.
	Excellent.
	And I guess you won't even know any of that until you find out who's going to publish it.
	Right.
	It's a long way down the line.
	I take it also that you would like to hear anybody who has had or can confirm your experiences or had similar ones?
	Boy, really, I'd really like to hear from somebody that was In Area 51 in 1971, if they're out there and they could contact me.
	Oh, they're out there.
	I would like for them to test if they remember an incident that I just described.
	There were several people there, at least I saw a dozen in the peripherals.
	There was people, so there's some that saw this stuff.
	All right, here's somebody who asked, David, were you at any time debriefed by the officials at Area 51?
	No, I wasn't.
	I guess it never came to that because LeMay interjected and he was in a bad mood that moment.
	He just pulled me out of there and took me home.
	Alright, to the phones.
	We're coming down the home stretch here so you'll be to sleep soon, David.
	No, I'm going to feel lightweight here.
	First time caller on the line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Where are you?
	Call toll-free 1-800-618-8255.
	David mentioned, first... I'm sorry, Francis, I had to bleep that out because we don't allow last names on the air, so let's just say your name is Francis.
	Francis, with an I. Okay.
	Okay, the question.
	He mentioned that while he was examining the engine that was about the size of what he felt would be a Greyhound bus.
	Yes.
	Where did he ever see, or David, did you ever see, or where is the vehicle that this engine propelled?
	Excellent question.
	I don't know.
	I'm assuming that it was in that area, maybe in a different bay or something.
	The thing I was curious about is I could only extrapolate in proportional dimensional size.
	My engine is the size of a football, it would take about a 10 to 12 foot rocket housing
	for all the peripherals for that.
	So if this thing was the size of a school bus, I couldn't imagine how big the craft
	could be.
	It could be the size of a football field or it could be the size of an aircraft carrier.
	It would have to be a pretty large craft because this engine would be capable of tremendous
	power so it would be a sizable craft.
	Actually, I appreciate your answer.
	It's a good answer.
	Sometimes you need to hear, I don't know, or I didn't see it.
	And I would not have expected you to have seen it.
	They only brought you in for one reason.
	Right.
	And that's obvious, having heard your story.
	And they didn't want you to know anymore.
	No, they didn't.
	What was interesting though is that this thing was, it wasn't torn, it was cut out of the craft.
	Oh.
	And that was the fittings on the side.
	So everything had been cut?
	Yeah, and there was some rips and tears where I guess the initial impact when it went down occurred.
	But mostly they were clean severs, but I don't know what they cut it with because that's really interesting that they could cut it like that.
	But the thing of noteworthy that I remember mostly is the fittings that this thing had.
	The fittings, you know, like we have B-nut fittings and we have quick disconnect couplings.
	This thing's fittings, I don't know how to say this on the radio, but it gave a whole new definition to male and female fittings.
	First time callers, call area 702-727-1222.
	Slid in, and when he did, there was two, two of the couplings were still fastened, and they looked like they were one solid piece, like a fuse.
	Let's just shorten that to male and female organs.
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	That's the science in it.
	That's what's right.
	I hope I didn't get you in trouble, Art.
	No, no, no, no.
	Look, that actually makes all the sense in the world, because it is, after all, Well, there was something else interesting about the entire... And everything about that engine was natural, including, according to you, the way it was commanded.
	Do you remember seeing artwork by a man named H.R.
	Geiger?
	H.R.
	Geiger is a man that designed all the... It's called organic technology.
	He designed all the creatures in Alien.
	In Alien movies, you know, Sigourney Weaver?
	Yes.
	This thing had the same kind of overall technological manufacturing look.
	It was like, you know, it's like an organic technology.
	Yeah.
	That's where this thing looked like it could have grown itself.
	Oh, I hear you.
	Caller, anything else?
	Yes.
	On this, how would our space system be affected if this computer year 2000 compliance wasn't It's not corrected.
	I'm not following.
	It's a computer 2000 appliance?
	That's for... He's worried about the zeros in the year 2000.
	The millennial bug.
	Millennial bug in computers in the year 2000.
	How would that affect our space program?
	Corrected.
	All right.
	The only thing I can think of is it depends on the administration.
	It would either be an adverse effect Or to be as positive, it just depends on how they want to induce that technology.
	And the problem the space program's got, the biggest problem of all, they have no leadership.
	They have no goals.
	They have no short-range, long-range plans.
	We've got a little probe on Mars.
	At least no public ones.
	Right.
	Well, I agree.
	Okay, you win.
	Right.
	I'm only on a 3D level here.
	But, you know, as far as I can see, it's pitiful.
	There's no step-by-step ladder for us to go somewhere.
	It just seems random.
	Let's spend a block of money here.
	And the thing that I find more interesting is there's such a push by Golden, Ben Golden to the head of NASA.
	They want to go to Mars.
	You know, why in God's name do we want to go 464 million miles in one direction, or approximately that far, when all we've got to do is go 240,000 miles to our moon?
	Why don't we go back to the moon?
	Nobody wants to talk about going back to the moon.
	No, we're going to talk about the moon tomorrow night.
	Wild Card Line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yeah, I'm Walter from up here in Mount Rainier, Washington.
	Yes, sir.
	And I'd like to say thanks a lot, David, for doing this.
	You're really helping out in the greatest way.
	The serious thing is those people have guilt over who they've had killed and stuff over this.
	You would make a really good PR man, because guilt is the only thing that's stopping us now.
	But anyway, we have those ships up here, the ones that move erratically, and they can go in any direction they want to, and I'm sure they can, at certain times up here, things get, I don't know, there's tensions around.
	These crafts can move in any direction, just minute super speeds.
	And when you see one, it'll be red.
	And I'll tell you, it's a red light.
	And that's all I can say about it, because I don't know any more about them, except that they're here with us all the time.
	Well, we certainly have plenty of sightings of things like that.
	I wish I could see one.
	I've seen a couple of crafts, David.
	I've seen two.
	And, you know, I couldn't sit here and tell you Exactly what I saw, other than it was technology that either was A, generations and generations beyond what we have announced we have, or it was from somewhere else.
	I don't know.
	You know, they didn't drag anything along with them that explained all that to me.
	I just saw it.
	The owner's manual didn't drop out on... Yeah, there you go.
	And I take it on that big engine, it didn't either.
	No, I was looking for an owner's operator manual.
	I couldn't find one.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Ken from Uniontown in southwestern Pennsylvania.
	Yes, sir.
	I have one quick question, if I may.
	I've been catching your show erratically throughout the night due to the rainy weather and skip bouncing all around.
	Right.
	With all this technology out there and everything that seems to be going on around the world, and tying in with your book, Couldn't the government just turn this on its own people, this technology against its own people, to just basically make us all a bunch of slaves to the government?
	Maybe it's just me being paranoid, but it's a little scary to think about.
	I mean, look how long they've kept Area 51 secret from us.
	I mean, maybe it's just my paranoid mind working against me, the end of the millennium type of thing.
	It just scares the bejesus out of me.
	Well, obviously you're an intelligent person because the first thing an intelligent creature is aware of is that things are getting dangerous around us.
	I'm afraid our society, with the apathy that we have running through America, the democratic system works.
	People don't laugh at it.
	Don't laugh, it does work.
	But the reason the powers are having such a good time and everything is that they depend on one thing, apathy.
	As long as that apathy is in a democracy, man, you can have tyrants running things.
	But until people become cohesive, and instead of being like a flashlight shining on the wall, they become cohesive and become a laser and burn through it, they're not going to have to worry to answer anything.
	But the system will react, because at one time we pulled together and we absolutely rolled 40-year control of Democrats out of the office.
	And they had to bend to that will.
	We could make things change here if we'd only do it together.
	One is, I don't know the statistics, but of the registered voters in this country, what is it, like 12% vote?
	That's it?
	Well, it depends on the election you're talking about.
	Off your elections, you don't get many.
	That's just incredibly low.
	In local elections, you even get fewer.
	Yeah, and what you have setting is, you have a real justification for fear.
	Our democracy is now poised for an absolute dictator to take control.
	And it'd be a shame, it'd be our own fault if we let it happen.
	Okay.
	West of the Rockies, you're on there with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hello.
	Yes.
	I had a question for him, and it's regarding the EM fields around the ship he was talking about.
	Okay.
	With Hawking's theories of Being at the event horizon of a black hole, could you possibly freeze time and could that be a way of time travel?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I'm still stuck in the theory stage.
	I never got a chance to have any working models with this thing.
	I had time with it.
	Eventually, Stephen Hawkins agrees with that theorem.
	In the black hole capability, you would be able to pass through different dimensions and do time travel.
	Exactly how you set all this up in motion, the navigation, communications, all that stuff, I have more questions than I've got answers.
	But the theorem that he has, if you read his book, Space and Time, it addresses that issue.
	If you're going to do time travel in a natural way, the way to do it would be the force of a black hole.
	Art, one more comment. Thank you. I love your show. It eats my intellect.
	I've told all my friends around here. I'm getting possibly a high school club started for you.
	Thank you, my friend.
	I'll tell you one thing, your collars, that's a smart bunch of collars out there.
	Oh, we do have a good group, sure.
	Man, you've got an intelligent audience out there.
	East of the Rockies, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Good morning.
	Good morning, David Adair.
	You just unanswered one of my questions about a book.
	Is there any of the books you could recommend to us?
	Is there anything available yet?
	I just mentioned one.
	I was wondering if there's any other books you could recommend to us?
	Yeah.
	There's a book that NASA, ironically, puts out.
	It's called Shuttles at Work.
	Shuttles at Work?
	Right.
	And it explains, I think you'll find a lot of interesting stuff in the microgravity processing arena, where the commercial sectors are working.
	That's an excellent book.
	There's another old book, I don't know if you can find it anymore, it was printed by AAAS, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the cornerstone of our science world here.
	They produced a book called The Future of Energy.
	In that book, it was printed way back in 1971, but they may have a copy of it.
	But, uh, excuse me, it was printed in 73, and the date is significant, because about a third way through that book, uh, guess what, Art?
	They got a diagram of my engine.
	Really?
	Yep.
	It, uh, shows you the tutorial compressor, and it, right in the very beginning of the chapter, it says, Electromagnetic Fusion Containment Engine.
	There you are, caller.
	Okay, thank you for the recommendation.
	Right, thank you very much for the call.
	Have a good morning.
	First time caller line, you're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Good morning, Art.
	This is Wade in Sandpoint, Idaho.
	Yes, sir.
	Yes, I have a question for David.
	Maybe you covered it a little bit earlier there.
	Am I to understand that with the magnetic field produced by this, that contains the heat of this reaction?
	Right, right.
	It contains the force and the heat.
	Okay.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Now, can you throttle that or is it just one force?
	Sounds like a mechanic to me.
	Yes, you can.
	And the way you do that is the way you increase, decrease speed of a rocket engine is by opening and closing an orifice called specific impulse.
	In this particular case, in the liquid fuel configurations, even the solid propellants They can do that by a mechanical device called a jet evader, where they can, uh, it works like an iris of a camera.
	Uh, in this particular case, I used a, uh, a, a plasma charged beam, an ion beam that, uh, opened the field up at the end.
	And by dilating that thing, I can, uh, increase or decrease, or as you say, throttle the engine.
	Okay.
	So you're just changing the shape of the cone at the end.
	Thank you, sir.
	Have a good morning.
	Time, perhaps, for one more wildcard line.
	You're on the air with David Adair.
	Hello.
	Hi, David.
	This is Frank in Seattle.
	I do some research for Richard Hoagland, and I just wanted to... Well, then he's going to be on tomorrow night, you might want to know.
	Well, I do know already about that, because I'm in touch with him.
	All right.
	But what I want to call about is regards to... I've seen the STS-80 video that you have as well, Art.
	Yes, I do.
	It's a mind-blower.
	It really is.
	And I'm just wondering... David, there's no question about it.
	STS-80, the video that I have, shows things going on.
	Right.
	Steve Gere showed it to me, and I'll tell you... I called up some friends at NASA, and I said, Ice particles.
	I said, come on guys, you've got to come up with a better line than that.
	That one's so bad, it's not working out here.
	Yeah, not on that video it doesn't.
	Oh, it's not ice particles.
	It doesn't even look anything near it.
	No, I know.
	I've never seen ice particles, too, at 90 degree corners.
	By the way, I've got another question, too.
	On the engine you saw at Area 51, did you notice there was any fiber optic particles or strands or anything with fiber optics?
	Excellent question.
	Yeah, do you remember me talking about the circuit, the little tubing?
	Right.
	The tubing looked just like fiber optics, except it looked like it had a liquid in it, but it had the same texture and look of a fiber optic cable system.
	Right.
	And one other thing, too.
	Would you mind, maybe perhaps, getting in touch with, or Richard Hoagland calling you, or getting in touch with you on a couple of these things?
	No, I'd be glad to talk to the guy.
	Like I said, he had one problem that he said.
	I have one other question.
	Thank you, Colin.
	We're so short on time.
	Call me.
	On the engine.
	On the engine, David, were there any markings?
	Boy, I wonder if we forgot that this thing was covered with it.
	Oh God!
	With what?
	It looked like a cross of hieroglyphics and an alphanumeric system.
	But some of the stuff even had, it looked almost like...
	A lot of the emblems had the look of a playing deck of cards.
	You ever seen the clubs and the hearts?
	Yes.
	There were emblems like that, but boy, I tell you what, those markings saved my bacon in Washington.
	I forgot to tell you that.
	They were testifying, the other witnesses, and I thought, boy, if nobody's had hardware contact.
	I thought, man, I don't know what a turkey felt like at Thanksgiving, because I was the only one that had hardware contact at that time.
	And what happened was a lawyer got up to testify, and he was an encryption officer in 1960, and they gave him three pieces of metal, his commanding officers, and said that this is from a downed UFO.
	And so this guy's an attorney under oath now.
	You think about this.
	Real quick, we're running out of time.
	Anyway, I matched the emblems.
	I wrote them down and handed them to the guy, and he goes, holy smokes.
	So I matched the emblems that he remembered, and that metal came off the engine.
	David, we're out of time.
	We gotta go.
	We're gonna do it again.
	All right.
	Stay in touch, my friend.
	Oh, thanks, Art, for having me on, bud.
	Thank you.
	Take care.
	David Adair.
	If you want a copy of this program, 1-800-917-4278.
	That's 1-800-917-4278.

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