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May 19, 1996 - Art Bell
23:52
Dreamland with Art Bell - Arts Parts - Linda Moulton Howe
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Well, it's as good as any other explanation you can come up with, and there are many.
And we know, Art, that there have been these stories since the 40s of silver disks with non-human beings being found in New Mexico and other places, and you've now had one correspondence that you have put out, you've gotten another, and I don't know if you are going to distribute that publicly, but it comes down to the fact that Somebody says that they have had pieces of artifacts from a crash in the letter.
It says Roswell.
We don't know where.
There's no specific coordinates.
All right, if I may, let me stop you and tell everybody.
The second letter, the one Linda is now referring to with regard to the Roswell pieces, is now on the Internet.
It's under anonymous letters.
You see first the photographs of the material, then the first letter, and now The second letter has been added to it as of this moment on my webpage.
Okay.
Linda, if you would, start out.
Yeah.
You've been a middle person for me and I really want to thank you because getting something like this is actually kind of a burden.
It is very difficult, Art, because you now are experiencing what for the last 15 years Trying to find anybody with very critical professional credentials who would be willing to look at typical tissue and samples in the unusual animal death was difficult and now having to deal with artifacts that may have come from a craft from someplace else is also difficult and we are still experiencing the same syndrome that these professionals
Ask for and must remain anonymous in order to protect their positions in their work.
How much can you tell us about the scientist, he's well credentialed, who examined this possible wreckage?
Yes, and he is a major at Western University.
Uh, he has been helping me and several other, uh, investigators in several aspects of the phenomena for about seven years.
His work is extremely good, well done, uh, and he has been looking at the alleged Roswell UFO crash artifact that you received last month.
Alright, can you, can you, before we get to that, tell us what kind of tests were done on the material?
Yes.
You gave him ten pieces and the ten pieces broke down into five small, what turned out to be, which is very interesting, they are perfect squares.
They've been measured and they are exactly six millimeters by six millimeters square and less than one millimeter thick.
And every one of those five little squares weighs exactly 160 milligrams each.
How likely is that?
Because the pieces I gave you, Linda, were not all shaped the same.
I gave you some circles, I think, some oblongs, and some squares.
That's right.
The five squares are exactly perfect squares.
And they exactly weigh 160 milligrams each.
And they are machined.
The edges of each one of those little squares, when he looked at, and this comes to your question, he used a scanning electron microscope, which is used with, the scanning electron microscope is used with the Energy Inversive Spectroscopy.
Now, what this all means, these big words, They have the ability now with scanning electron microscopes to take something, let's say this is just millimeters wide, which is just a little bit over a quarter of an inch, and they can go down to the surface and they can keep going down and down and get down to one, two microns, and to show you how small that is,
If you could take and isolate a single blood cell out of your bloodstream, it would be about seven microns in diameter, a blood cell.
They're going down to one, two microns, which is about a third the size of a blood cell.
Take a look at things on these artifacts that you sent, and when they get to a place that they're interested in, or various places, they then can ratchet change into a particular kind of switch, which is the energy dispersive
spectroscopy. And when you find out what you want to measure,
when you're on a spot, this will determine exactly what elements
are there. When they did this on the five little spares, on the
two ellipticals, which also were six millimeters wide...
And I'm going to ask you to hold on for just a moment, if you would,
and uh... will be right back to you We are at the half hour mark, folks.
Uh, Linda, are you there?
Yes, I hear you.
Alright, so we were on the smaller pieces, and you said they weighed 160 grams each.
Yeah, the five.
And out of the ten pieces that you sent, eight of the ten had a common denominator of each being six millimeters wide.
So there were five that were perfectly square.
There were two ellipticals that were 6mm by 8mm, and the circle was 6mm in diameter.
So 6mm seemed to be a constant, at least in some of these dimensions.
Now on the, we'll call it the very thin blade, it measured exactly 10 inches by 1.5 inches, which the scientists thought was unusual that anything would end up In even inches, which is a terrestrial measurement, that could be that it was thought off from something that's unknown.
He thought that was strange that it should measure so exactly.
The last piece is the approximately 2 3 8 inches by 1 15 16 inches, not square, almost square.
We'll call it the vent.
It is a small, very, very thin object with very thin slits throughout it.
Now, I'm going to have some other detailed remarks to make about the, we'll call it the blade and the vent.
But first, I want to go to a sentence that is from the second communication that you now have out on the computer.
And this is from the source who says, Grandad stated their own analysis She's talking back in, uh, that she came in possession of these in 1974 from his grandfather who got them from the, I guess, the 1947 crash.
It's what she's alleging.
Granddad stated their own analysis of the samples indicated as pure extract aluminum as a conductor for the electromagnetic fields created in the propulsion system, unquote.
And we'll stop there for a second.
That sentence It certainly seems to hold up.
They took the electron dispersive spectroscopy to every single one of the ten pieces on several parts of them.
Now what they're doing in the EDS, you bombard with electrons and it knocks out electrons, kind of punches out the electrons.
And those electrons have a very characteristic wavelength.
They put out an x-ray when they fly out and that x-ray has a very characteristic wavelength.
And then you can tell exactly what the element is.
Well, over and over and over again in every one of these, it was, and this is the phrase that is correct to use, greater than 99% aluminum and could not detect any other element.
Because scientists are reluctant to say that anything is 100% anything.
Because even putting your I do.
Now, what does that mean?
Now, for example, is there much terrestrial production done in pure aluminum, or is it usually for strength and alloy?
Usually, when we're building with aluminum in something, we are adding manganese or other alloys to strengthen and Tomorrow, or Tuesday, this scientist is going to be meeting with a metallurgical professional to discuss exactly these issues of aluminum alloys and 100% alloy, and I hope that next Sunday I can have a further update on that.
But I want to say that there's something else interesting that showed up in the scanning electron microscope, which gets me to this question of whether or not there's anything that could be factual It's really not an alloy, but what they found in one of the five little squares were silicon granules.
They were one to two microns, and they seem to be embedded in the surface of the aluminum.
And on this square, there were striations across it, as if the little square had itself been either scratched or abraded by something.
And it raised the speculation, which ranges from could these pieces have had impact to something that was sandy or dusty?
Or is there a processing mechanism in the manufacturing of these little pieces that somehow brought a silicon polishing dust to them?
We're going to learn a little bit more about that from the metallurgist.
And when you come to the, we'll call it the very thin blade, it was less than a millimeter.
Just extremely thin and light.
Yes.
Ten inches long and one and a half inches wide.
That's right.
On that, and on what we're calling the little vent, were granules that were different.
These turned out to be 10% manganese, 10% iron, and 80% aluminum.
I'm talking now only in little granules.
It seems to somehow be attached or also embedded.
Now, what they are, or what they mean, or whether they are something that was picked up over time.
The source said that he's had these since 1974, and they were tarnished, and they may have been exposed to other things.
That part's hard to know.
Well, a question still hanging is, even if they are all aluminum on the outside, could there be any structural detail on the inside?
Well, tonight, just before we went on the air, the scientist called me, he was in the lab, and he had, with your permission, Art, he had cut into one of the little five squares that we talked about, and he said it was pure silver, shiny, appeared to have no other structural details, and at this point, it appears that that, at least, is just aluminum, aluminum, aluminum, aluminum.
And she said to me, in this universe, where as far as we look, when we look at all of the elements and we look at the stars and the galaxies, we keep seeing the same spectrums of the same elements.
So, if it is aluminum, and aluminum, and aluminum, over and over and over again, what we do not know is function.
We know we have aluminum on this planet, there must be aluminum throughout the universe and other places, But what are the functions of these?
And to this day, there is nothing about any of this that the scientist or even some of the people he has worked with and they have discussed, there is nothing that even indicates any kind of function from these at this point.
In other words, no earthly use they can discern.
Not at this point.
And the other question comes back to this fourth strange sentence about Used as a conductor for the electromagnetic field created in the propulsion system.
Well, aluminum might conduct some electricity.
But what would the relationship be specifically to an electromagnetic field?
We're also going to talk with the metallurgists and some other people about that.
The answer is, of course, it's not magnetic.
Aluminum is not magnetic.
That's right.
So, by next weekend, we may have a little bit more, at least, professional information about some of these questions, but at this point, our There is nothing that we can say that would confirm or deny that they are in fact extraterrestrial, other dimensional, time travel or anything.
It's aluminum, aluminum, aluminum in shapes that appear to have definitely been machined.
Could they have been machined on the Earth?
I am assuming definitely in this day and age they could have been.
Uh, 1947, uh, could that be a source?
We do not know, and all we've got to go by at this point are this man's two letters.
Alright, uh, and there's some chance that they impacted on something.
Well, it's speculation about the silicon granules in one of the five little squares.
Uh, it could also be a manufacturing process, and these are the kinds of things that are, uh, very difficult for us, uh, to know, uh, beyond the fact that, uh, we've got these two letters from this man, uh, claiming that these, uh, are artifacts from a crash.
Now, I think it's also important to point out that Jesse Marcel, Jr., who, uh, saw some of this material at his father's, uh, when his father brought home to the kitchen, Uh, in 1947, July, described completely different, uh, type of material.
A type of crinkly thing that would, uh, retain its shape.
And, and he said, he told me in that interview that he never personally crinkled them up.
His father told me, told him that.
He never did it himself, but he said that he did handle the material.
He saw for himself those fuchsia colored symbols in these little three-eighths of an inch wide little beams that were so light and have been compared in other research
to balsa wood, looking like sort of a silvery, coppery color, but being compared to balsa wood.
Again, all of that is quite different from this aluminum, aluminum, aluminum.
Okay, well, round two.
One of the factors that I received was from Mr. Edward Stork of Denver, Pennsylvania,
of Denver, Pennsylvania, who has studied on his own a lot about metallurgy, and he
who has studied on his own a lot about metallurgy, and he called me to say that a piece of 99% pure aluminum,
called me to say that a piece of 99% pure aluminum, exactly 6 millimeters by 6 millimeters by 1 millimeter,
exactly six millimeters by six millimeters by one millimeter,
it has to weigh 97 milligrams, One of the faxes that I received was from Mr. Edward Stork
would have to weigh 97 milligrams, the 160 milligrams that the university scientists found for
each of the five little squares.
Now, they did spectrography, they did the electron scanning microscope and all the rest on the little piece on the
outside of it and found nothing but, as you said, aluminum, aluminum,
aluminum.
Right.
And so that should weigh 90?
97.
And instead of...
Yeah, and I went back to the scientist and I said, here's the situation, and he went back to the lab,
he checked the calibration on his scale, and he remeasured each of the little squares, and the answers were the same.
But he also did a calculation, and said, yes, that it was true.
If the little squares are 99% pure aluminum at 6.6 by 1 millimeters, They really should weigh 97 milligrams, not 160 milligrams, so now we have a weight discrepancy to solve.
Well, another factor said that he had worked in an aluminum bypass plant and proposed that all the pieces are sample molds used to determine material content.
He said that the grooves in the round piece that resembles a phonograph record are created by the metal waves used to smooth the surface to be tested.
This is a quote from his staff.
The squares, oblong, and round fragments are punch-outs that are material that is removed from the casting to make openings for mechanical connections, unquote, and therefore they are scrap material and thrown away.
Well, I spent a lot of time the past few days talking with metalurgists, including two who worked with aluminum almost exclusively at Sandia Labs in Albuquerque from the early 1950s until they retired a few years ago.
Both suggested that if so far the scientific analysis of the electronic dispersive spectroscopy showed only aluminum atoms on the surface of the object, because you wanted to keep them all intact, that the first round of testing was really only on the surface of the object.
When he punched through a little bit on one Sunday just before the program, that was not with the EDS testing.
Well, the logical conclusion is, according to these men, that there is a coating of aluminum around another different metal on the inside, which can be a way to manufacture aluminum alloys because aluminum is non-corrosive and might be used as a coating.
Now, this is what the retired Sandia Laboratory metallurgist, Charlie Mack, had to say about why the EGS might have picked up only aluminum, And whether or not the pieces could be scrap punch-outs.
Unless the aluminum was fairly thick and coating the aluminum on the outside.
Right, I think.
You would burn through that and hit the inside as well.
Right, like an M&M.
Like a coated M&M candy.
Yeah, yeah.
And aluminum might be the outside, and something on the inside, whatever is coated, is deeper inside these squares than the EDS is penetrating them.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's why it's hard to get on the inside.
It's like cutting through a whole piece.
Right.
Um, what is the extent to you, from all of your experience, that there could be Five punch-outs that were scrap material from alloy production that would each weigh exactly 160 milligrams.
This way, uh, contains, by which it was plunged, the tooling would have to be instrumented in order to cope up with the same volume of material punched out.
Which, of course, is just gonna Okay.
So it is not normal for scrap aluminum punch-out material that's thrown away to end up looking identical, being exactly the same size, and weighing exactly the same size.
material that's thrown away to end up looking identical, being exactly the same size and
weighing exactly the same size.
Right.
So, all right, Katie, the mystery about the weight discrepancy will be explained if we
find there is an aluminum coating around a denser internal metal.
Those tests will be done in the last week of May, and I'll be able to report back on the Memorial Day weekend dreamland.
Finding a coated alloy does not mean the fragments are from an extraterrestrial craft either.
Pure aluminum does not exist naturally because the element is so reactive with other elements that all 99% pure aluminum has been processed by someone, somewhere.
Aluminum does not corrode, so using it as a metal coating is part of our 20th century industrial technology.
And if it works here, maybe it's used to build round disks that travel through time and space somewhere else, too.
Well, it's a real mystery now.
In other words, all of this careful testing on the outside picked up nothing else except what I recall you to say was a little bit of virtual sand.
Yeah, they found one or two micron silicon fragments.
I have confirmed that silicon is used in the aluminum manufacturing process.
It's used to use an alloy, and it can also be used as a flux to clean out equipment where they are working with aluminum alloys.
So that could explain why there are those small sand dust pieces.
There were some slightly different percentages on the vent, what we call the vent, and that's the long scrap.
We had some other measures which also could have come from the dust of work with an alloy.
It may be in the final result.
We will have an alloy that might be some company's sophisticated crunch-out scrap,
and then that would mean that whoever sent these letters and sent these pieces was perhaps trying to run us off
in a red herring, or could end up being another anomaly that we have studied
but we could never prove its origins like for many other puzzles in UFO phenomena.
Alright, the big headline is, uh, it really can't be aluminum, aluminum, aluminum.
It's not at this weight.
With a weight discrepancy, there's got to be something else there.
Fascinating.
It is.
And they cut it open.
They cut one of the spurs open.
They found nothing but a shiny appearance.
Aluminum interior as well.
So far, but they haven't put it under the ETS and that will happen in that last week of May.
Alright, and if they find nothing but aluminum, aluminum, aluminum, then we've really got a problem, don't we?
Well, it would almost be a physical impossibility as I understand the physics of the universe at this point.
It weighs 150 milligrams.
There has to be more there.
There has to be something else they're adding that weight.
All right.
And so it is, folks.
The mystery of the day.
Linda, we'll get your information out.
We're out of time.
Okay.
Bless your heart.
I'll look forward to next week's report.
Okay.
And stay away from the Chief of Commerce.
Thank you.
And good night, Linda.
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