Art Bell

All Episodes

Previous Next

March 7, 1996 - Art Bell

01:49:02

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell - Richard C. Hoagland & Nick Begich - NASA's Tethered Satellite and HAARP

Participants

Main voices

01:44:11

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
art bell ▲ ● ▼		From the high heavens and the great American Southwest, kind of the midpoint for what we're about to do, I bid you good morning from the Hawaiian and Tahitian Islands, all the way across this great nation to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south, well, into South America, north to the pole.
		This is Coast to Coast A.M. I'm Mark Bell.
		And I'm going to do something in a few minutes I've wanted to do now for quite some time.
unidentified		Number one, Richard Hogland is back.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We've got him with us this morning.
		Richard Hogland, a NASA consultant, science advisor to Walter Cronkite, history science award winner in New York, is with us.
		He knows more now about the CSS unfeathered satellite project.
		And he thinks it's related to harp.
		Many, many, many, many time zones away, I've also got Dr. Nick Bedgett, author of Angels Don't Play This Harp.
		And I thought it high time that I get them together.
		So we're going to do that here in just a moment.
		It could be very interesting.
unidentified		All right, I want to remind him.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Just two more little items.
		One is Vidian is now up, and those of you who call, I've got a little photograph here of the untethered satellite glowing, as Richard would say, like a giant exclamation point in space.
		And those who call on Vidian this morning, I will try to hold that photograph up for you so you can see it.
		This Reuters story just cleared the wire, and it's on AT as well.
		Computer glitches are creating problems for the space shuttle Columbia.
		The glitch is in a computer system that relays information from the shuttle's landing systems to its onboard computers.
		It means the shuttle flight might have to land at its backup landing site at Edwards Air Force Base in California Friday rather than Kennedy in Florida.
		NASA says the crew is not in danger.
		NASA prefers to land in Florida to save the expense of ferrying the shuttle from the West Coast back to its Florida base.
		So they're talking about a Friday landing now, possibly at Edwards.
		And that is the latest news that I've got hot off the wire.
		Now, let's see if we can do what we want to do here.
		Let's go to New York.
		Richard Hoagland, are you there?
		I am here, Art.
		Good.
		Let's now see if we can go to Alaska and connect with Dr. Nick Beggets.
		Are you there, Doctor?
		Yes, I am.
		Can you hear each other?
		Yes.
		I can hear Nick fine.
		Okay.
		Is it amazing what technology can do?
		It is when you consider that not only are you two now speaking across zillions of miles and time zones, but you're also worldwide on the internet.
		Yeah, it's amazing.
		Listen, gentlemen, I would just like to hear, you two are just meeting each other for the first time, so I'd kind of like to sit back and hear an exchange between you.
		And Richard, I would say you might want to start.
		I know you've got a lot of late news and things to fill us in on since you and I have missed each other for a few days here.
		Yes.
		Well, all right.
		To kind of catch up on where we are, we have a shuttle about to come home, hopefully with seven astronauts in good health when they land.
		We don't exactly know at this hour.
		I've got CNN here with the sound down so I can, you know, relay any late bulletins.
		So we don't know whether they're going to pick the cape or Edwards.
		It's been left very much up in the air.
		Since our last shows, what has happened is a lot of grassroots folks in Alaska, in particular a couple that I like to single out, Jan Eller and Richard Lamp, have been providing me documentation of what we suspected but did not have the paperwork to prove on the last show that we did,
		namely a traceable paper trail connection between this civilian project, this pure scientific research project on the shuttle called the Tethered Satellite, and a military project that has rather interesting implications and permutations that I'm sure Nick will fill us in on, in Alaska called HARP.
		Since our last conversation, ARP, we now have an unequivocal connection between these two projects.
		And what's interesting to me is that normally when we were conducting military operations with the Space Shuttle, what the DOD would do would be to basically commandeer the flight.
		They would put up either an optical observation satellite, a radar observation satellite, or some other set of experiments.
		They would basically put a news blackout over the mission.
		The mission was announced as a military mission.
		Even the launch time was kept secret, although that's kind of silly because all the reporters just hung out at the bars at Cocoa Beach and just watched out the windows to see when the thing was going to leave.
		It's kind of hard to launch a shuttle in secret, so that never made much sense.
		And everybody kind of played this game that, okay, there's certain things they're doing we're not supposed to know, and there were speculations in the press, and the New York Times and John Pike would come on from the American Federation of Scientists and, you know, extoll and importuned that, you know, this money was being wasted on things that now the Cold War was over that weren't really needed.
		Well, that's all fine and good, but at least we knew that there was a military project Underway, and that NASA was basically providing the truck.
		With this particular mission, it really is beginning to look more and more, and I know that I'm speculating here, but it's looking more and more from the paperwork that what we had was a military mission masquerading under the guise of a civilian, purely scientific research project.
		And so I got away from them.
		Well, all right.
		Dr. Begett, isn't that kind of what you think HAARP is?
		It's the same word game.
		It's the same.
		Well, all right.
		Dr. Beggetts, isn't that kind of what you think HAARP is?
		It's the same word games.
		It's the same way they've characterized this program.
		Purely research, scientific research, no military mission, and yet when anyone looks at the documents we've all seen by this stage of the game, they clearly see it's a joint project by the Navy and Air Force.
		And what has come out on this peter is certainly getting more and more interesting as the days wear on.
		Well, I want to give proper credit to Deuce to Palmer, who, when I sent him some of the NASA paperwork and he started doing the calculations, he realized that, you know, if you want to generate power with a 13-mile-long piece of wire, this is a very inefficient way to do it.
		But that it would make one dang good low-frequency antenna.
		In fact, it would be a very low-frequency ELF, extreme low-frequency antenna dangling, you know, 200 miles up more or less, aimed straight down as a dipole, always toward the center of the Earth.
		And the more I looked into the HARP literature and what Bruce had come up with in terms of his speculations, the more I realized that this thing really seemed to have a double duty.
		And in fact, the power generation aspect almost was window dressing, PR.
	And I will give you an example of how kind of silly the so-called power generation excuse that has been presented to us seems to be.
	We have an 1,100-pound satellite, the satellite itself, built by the Italian State Agency.
	It's crammed with all kinds of things which, you know, I don't know how four experiments can weigh 1,100 pounds.
	You know, we sent probes to Jupiter and Saturn where the instrumentation weighed 10 pounds, 15 pounds, 5 pounds.
	What kind of scientific gear would they have crammed into this thing to weigh 1,100 pounds, gentlemen?
	What's the first question?
	The next question is, if you're going to be using a satellite deployed from the shuttle to generate electric power, then why have we been hearing for the last week that the batteries were dead?
	Wouldn't it make sense if you were going to perform an experiment to generate power, that you would put a circuit on board the satellite so the power you generated could be used to recharge the batteries?
	Of course.
	To demonstrate proof of principle?
	I mean, nowhere in this, either in the cargo bay of the shuttle or in the satellite, is there one piece of equipment designed to capture the power that's been generated.
	All right, can we go back to basics for a second?
	Here we've got this long tether out there, 13 miles of it.
	Yeah, do the two of you agree that the length of the tether would lend itself to the acceptance of or the receiving of something from heart?
	Oh, unquestionably.
	It is a 13-mile-long tuned resonator.
	If you irradiate it, it break in any time you want, but if you irradiate this thing dangling in what's called the F layer of the ionosphere moving around the Earth every 90 minutes at roughly 17,500 miles an hour, if you irradiate it from a transmitter anywhere on the earth with the appropriate frequency that matches the impedance and the size of the antenna,
	which is roughly 13 to 14 kilohertz, all right, that's the primary frequency, then this little dipole, this 13-mile long dipole, this wire hanging straight down, will re-radiate like crazy in resonance to that incoming electromagnetic energy being beamed to it literally from any place on the earth.
	Because of the low frequency, if the transmitter, let's say, was the HARP transmitters located in Alaska, at roughly 62 degrees north and 145 degrees west.
	Is that about right, Doctor?
	Yes.
	Because of the trapping properties and ducting wave-guide properties of the ionosphere, which acts basically like a radio mirror, those very, very, very low frequency radio waves will literally bounce their way around the curvature of the Earth until they cross this antenna,
	which then will resonate with them wondrously and will re-radiate them in a spherical pattern straight down over whatever it happens to be passing over at that moment in its orbit around the Earth, which is where the orbit itself becomes a very interesting thing to look at, which, of course, in the last couple, three days, we have been looking at it.
	And the orbit is passing over some very interesting things, and the most interesting thing for me, Nick, is it's passing directly every 90 minutes.
	Well, actually, only for one period of time, every 90 minutes, and then it would come back over a period of a week, and it would pass over it again because the orbit is not constant.
	It is shifting backward because of some complexities of celestial mechanics.
	But for a time period, let's say a window, for a day or so, this spacecraft, this antenna, will pass directly over the Great Pyramid at Giza.
	And I think that's what they're looking for.
	Because, gentlemen, and Nick, I know you don't know this, but you're going to have one extra experience.
	The sighting of the HAARP transmitter at 62 North and 145 West Is perfect for the hyperdimensional connection to probing the Giza Plateau from Alaska.
	Now, I guess we need to catch Nick up a little bit.
	Nick, are you familiar with Richards' hyperdimensional physics?
	No, I'm not.
	All right.
	It goes to.
	Well, it's not Richards, it's actually Maxwell.
	All I am is kind of.
	Maxwell's mouth.
	James Maxwell.
	King's first Maxwell.
unidentified		Yeah, I said it.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Maxwell's mouth.
		That's right.
		In other words, you're saying that this antenna, glowing as it is, and it is incredibly glowing, is glowing because of a power source, harp, or power that is there.
		Not necessarily, all right?
		The reason it's glowing, and this is where I think that the guys who planned this did not understand what they were dealing with.
		They're looking at a combination of brilliance and dumbness, you know, arrogance and stupidity, all in one packet, all right?
		These people think they're God because no one, there are no checks and balances.
		They've been getting away for the last 50 years with carrying out an increasing series of escalating experiments all over the earth with unlimited money, without accountability in the Congress, and they think they can do anything, and this finally has fit them in a very delicate part of their anatomy.
		What happened on Sunday night to the astronauts was not supposed to happen.
		What is happening now with the tether was not supposed to happen.
		What they have not realized is that by putting a 13-mile-long direct short between two layers of the ionosphere and the fact that the Earth is driving a hyperdimensional generator and generating enormous currents, both in terms of voltage and amperage down that wire, they have created a visible symbol of their playing around with forces that are bigger than all of us.
		And that may or may not be interfering with their purpose, which was to do some clandestine experiments with nobody noticing.
		The scenario that I proposed that they had planned was that after the day of experiments with the shuttle, where they talk about generating power and doing all that stuff, they were supposed to reel the tethered satellite back into the cargo bay by, you know, basically reversing the fishing line, you know, model here.
		And I am proposing that they would have announced that, oh, whoops, we have a problem, Houston.
		We can't reel it back in.
		And then Houston would have said, well, gentlemen, you obviously have to go to Plan B, jettison the tethered satellite.
		And they would have tossed the antenna and the satellite and the wire and the towers out of the payload bay so they could close the doors and come home.
		And this thing would have been left there in Earth orbit with them safely on the way home, and nobody would ever have even noticed or questioned that, in fact, it was not dead, Jim.
		It was providing its own power, and it was going to perform a series of experiments without anybody noticing.
		But something happened.
		Serendipity stepped in.
		And on Friday night at 7.30 Central Standard Time, as it was about to cross the equator at the terminator, precisely at sunset, somebody in their brilliance at the computer opened the circuit for four minutes.
		So an enormous voltage, maybe 100,000, 200, 300,000 volts, filled up in this 13-mile-long wire.
		And it zapped over to the ground at the shuttle, frying the tether, melting it in space, which pulled apart like taffy.
		You can see that on the close-up TV.
		I don't want to stop you there because we talked about this the other night on the radio without your presence, Richard.
		And I said, look, I've seen the tether where it was separated, and I couldn't see any char marks.
		Then I added, well, maybe in space you don't char when you burn.
		And you said, but it pulled apart like taffy, which means, in essence, as plastic does, it virtually melted.
		It melted.
		It melted, and cleanly so.
		And when, indeed, when you look at it, it looks like it melted.
		Now, the Kevlar did this color.
		There is a kind of an orangish, darkish area on one side on the enhanced photos that I've been able to grab from CN.
		We have some very sophisticated imaging equipment here, and we've been able to take some of these and look at them.
		But it looks exactly like if you were to take a piece of plastic, let's say a soda straw, and hold it in a channel frame and pour apart instead of very thin and seven strands before it broke.
		The point is that when that event happened, it generated one heck of a spark.
		God knows how much amperage.
		Remember, Kesler used to play around with millions and millions of volts.
		But the amperage was nothing.
		That's why he could play with it and hold light bulbs in his hands and have it play around his hair and his fingers and all that.
		If you put any amperage, amperage is simply electrodes, numbers of electrons, together with voltage, which is pressure.
		You put those two together and you have potentially a deadly combination.
		And in essence, what I think happened is that a little bomb went off in that payload day at the top of that tower.
		An electromagnetic bomb, because you basically had a direct short.
		It leaked across from the tether to the shuttle.
		And in space, with no air, you know, just the S layer of the atmosphere, which is very, very thin up there, it had to have been hundreds of thousands of volts to kill that, you know, couple, three, four, four feet.
		At which point, all hell literally broke loose in that shuttle.
		See, that is why they sounded so panic.
		Including the crashing of the computer, no doubt, that they just figured out has crisp.
		Well, I think what we can reasonably extrapolate, even from known physics, is that if you have a huge electric arc discharge relatively close to very sensitive solid-state electronic devices, you wind up with a lot of computers going, ah!
		Yeah, sir.
		Anybody who walks across the room, touches their computer at the wrong time, knows about that.
		All right, listen, Richard, we're at the bottom of the hour.
		When we come back, we'll turn to Dr. Nick Degas for a moment and get his take on harp.
		What harp is, and how harp might be connected, or could be Connected or whether it is connected.
		And I've got a feeling they agree on that.
		To what's going on in space right now.
unidentified		Call our bell 12 west of the Rockies at 1-800-618-8255.
		1-800-618-8255.
		East of the Rockies at 1-800-825-5033.
		1-800-825-8-5033.
		This is the CBC Radio Network.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It absolutely is.
		And I wish you all a good morning.
		Art CNN just reported that the Central Columbia will attempt to land at 5.52 a.m. this morning, that specific time.
		Martin and Albuquerque reporting that, but not telling us where it's going to land.
		I would imagine at that hour.
		It would be Florida, you would think, or maybe not necessarily so at all.
		So we don't know yet where it's coming down.
		I guess we've got a time.
		In a moment, back to Dr. Nick Beggett and Richard Hogland, separated by many a time zone.
		New York, Alaska, brought together here in the desert, and you and the rest of the country.
		Why wait?
		If you suffer, all you're calling for now is a free business.
		1-800-448-5700.
		All right, now, back to my two guests, Richard Hoperman and Dr. Nick Degas.
		And Dr. Begis, if you could give a very quick overview of what HAARP is, what you know about it.
		That would help a lot of listeners that are new to all this, I'm sure.
		See, HARP is a joint venture between the Air Force and Navy.
		It is a program operating in Alaska.
		It is an extremely large radio frequency transmitter with an effective radiated power of disclaimer phase of up to 1 billion watts of power.
		And what is happening at this point is it's going into a number of tests this year.
		In fact, a test beginning March 16th, we'll be testing Earth Penetrating Tomography as an application which will be operating in the ELF range, in the low frequency range, by modulating the ionosphere, which is exactly what workers have been talking about.
		Can I interrupt you for a sec?
		Oh, certainly.
		This spacecraft, the untethered satellite now, has a limited lifetime.
		It is going to slowly circle the Earth and spiral in and ultimately burn up in the atmosphere because of atmospheric drag as well as the electromagnetic drag on the feet, magnetic drag on the sheath and antennas coming down a few feet every day.
		So it has a limited life.
		One of the things I was looking at is the coincidence between these new high-powered tests of HARP in Alaska and the projected half-life of the satellite up there before it re-handers and is no longer of use.
		And this idea of a date between the 16th and the 22nd, which is a date that I've been given where apparently the FAA is warning pilots not to depend on satellite locator beacons during this period of time.
		Really?
		Yep, yep.
		The test sequence.
		This is the test sequence, and this, of course, is when, if my information on the orbit is correct, our little friendly 13-mile-long glowing satellite up there will be passing directly over the Giza Plateau.
		Interesting.
		I trust you find it so.
		You know, what we have gotten recently that, well, I was out of town this last couple of weeks, I've gotten a, one of our people that have heard us on the air before sent us a document called HARP Research and Applications.
		When it's an executive summary from June of 95.
		Yeah, I just got it myself.
		Yeah, very interesting in terms of laying out the electrical potential in the locations affected by HAARP.
		And there's a number of...
		That's exactly right.
		And this document really starts to tie.
		If you look at it carefully, you can see I thought on page 11 of this document, it shows sort of the area that might be affected by the cosmetics.
		It's much larger than I originally thought was possible at this power level.
		But it certainly crosses the path of this orbiting cutter.
		And so I don't disagree with anything that you said, Richard.
		I think it does hook it together.
		And looking at the scientific mix, the fact that I believe you talked to me just a little while ago.
		Well, I related.
		I did that.
		Okay, the T. Bernhardt, what's underlined, the other name that's on the USA team, I'm at an organizing committee is a man named Inan who works in Stanford, I believe.
		But he is also tied to the HAARP project.
		And in fact, he was the person that discovered that by when DLF frequencies strike the couple, when DLF frequencies strike the coupling point between magnetosphere and ionosphere, that creates that amplification effect of up to 1,000 times and causes an electron particle rain over the area.
		And this was done with standard DLF transmitters, nothing with power potentials of a heart type transmitter.
		So, I mean, if you look at that particular individual's discovery of that, along with another scientist, went really well during Antarctic work, and here's part of this project.
		They very well know what potentials are available.
		And what they're looking at in this new Earth HARP document that we've received is this idea that the amount of power potentials are huge.
		I mean, this huge, the way it's described on page five of that document is the auroral electrodynamic circuit carried toward the Earth 0.1 to 1 million megawatts of power, equivalent to 100 to 1,000 large power plant.
		Yeah, of course the question is where is that power coming from?
		And in our model, that is hyperdimensionally generated power because of the paradei homo-polar generator effect.
		Mr. Chris Raises the specter is who has known what.
		And if there's seven guys up there who, you know, experienced this rather interesting event last Sunday night, were they clued in or were they not clued yet?
		I think it is the bleacher that one or two or who knows how many astronauts may be well aware of what's going on in part of the experiment and the others out in the cold.
		Yeah, yeah, that's basically.
		Well, see, this is the pattern we're seeing in NASA as a whole.
	As you know, in the last 13 years, we've been looking at a series of NASA images starting at eyes and moving toward the moon.
	And we're finding that what we have is a NASA within a NASA.
	We have most of the system that doesn't understand what's been going on, and a tiny fadery of people inside who are manipulating data, manipulating communications, manipulating people to get them to do things that they are not even aware that they're doing for those who are doing a tour who they haven't put to trust in, but who are not leveling with it about all the implications.
	That's really interesting because, Dr. Beggits, you believe the same thing is probably true about the project itself on the ground, don't you?
	Absolutely.
	And when you look at, you know, the thing that's come up on your show before is, you know, what frequency range is this operating within.
	No, let's talk about that.
	And I've got, I'm going to quote from this document because I think it's pretty interesting and revealing because it's sort of the two-sided tour to the words, you know, in what the actual frequency range of the HAF transmitter is 2.8 to 10 megahertz.
	But let me read what it says.
	It says, by exploring the properties of the auroral ionosphere as an active nonlinear medium, the primary energy of the House transmitter, which is confined in the frequency range of 2.8 to 10 megahertz, can be down converted in frequency to coherent low frequency ranges to low frequency range spanning five decades, as well as up-converted to infrared and visible photons.
	And it says, as a result, if the heart of the transmitter can generate portions of the remote sensing communication spanning 15 decades in frequency.
	So although the transmitter is limited, the peak pull of the spectrum is quite large.
	And we can have a diagram below that on paper picture that document goes from the visible, which is all the way at one end of the spectrum, all the way down to up below frequency, below one hertz, on the other end.
	Below one hertz.
	Now, my understanding of the wave hard force is that there's a very, very large antenna farm.
	I've got photographs of it, that produces a very wide signal where it begins, but where it hits the ionosphere, or where they want it to hit the ionosphere, it's a very narrow, very powerful beam.
	other words it operates in the exact opposite way most antennas arrays would operate And we'll get to all that in just a moment.
	All right, and run, it's a very strange night tonight.
	Friday night, Saturday morning.
	Talk radio sometimes, folks.
	If you just sort of let it go and you explore what seems interesting to explore, you're given some really weird areas.
	That's artbell at AOL.com.
	No spaces in there.
	And if you can send it as a JPG or GIF file, that would be preferable.
	So artbell at AOL.com.
	And we'll take the best of the photographs, and we will share them with everybody else.
unidentified		Maybe we'll even put them on video.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This was one of the oddest interviews I've ever done.
		I've been cut off by the phone company arbitrarily in the past.
		I don't think this was arbitrary, and I think I was intentionally cut off.
		Each time that I tried to reach back across the country, I couldn't get a line.
		That is to say, I got a line, but when I would dial out, I simply got a message saying there were no available lines.
		Please try again.
		So, it may have to do with the incoming phone traffic, but I've never been cut off that way that many times in that sort of span before.
		I think it was intentional, and I don't make these statements lightly.
		And there is this.
		This just came in.
		Art CNN just reported 200 dead in a remote area of Indonesia.
		And they're saying it is from the flu?
		Bill in San Diego.
		Again, this is from Bill.
		I cannot confirm beyond this.
		Obviously, I would like some confirmation from you.
		200 dead in a remote area of Indonesia from the flu.
		We put that to quote, so I have no, absolutely no idea what's going on there.
		If I can find it, here it is, one more time.
		Those of you with critical information regarding the story we're following, we began to follow yesterday and then kind of exploded tonight.
		Richard Hoagland's fax number is Area 2012711703.
		201271-1703.
		Now, on unrelated subjects, the Brothers to the Rescue are On their way back to Cuba today.
		Today.
		Now, I told you what would happen, and it is happening.
		One week after two light planes were shot down near Cuba, the Brothers to the Rescue is about to return today, ostensibly to lay a wreath in the water in honor of the dead.
		A flotilla of boats, Brothers to the Rescue, and two more aircraft will participate.
		This will occur about 17 miles off the Cuban coast, where it is still controversial, but the oil slate was present from the planes that the MiG-29s shot down.
		Now, here's what I told you would happen, and it is happening.
		They will not be alone.
		Escorting them is going to be the Coast Guard, which will send four cutters and four patrol boats.
		Coast Guard aircraft as well will be on the scene.
		And in the background, if needed, U.S. warplanes, F-15s, 16s, from Homestead Air Force Base will be on standby alert.
		And I told you the president would do this, having no choice.
		The U.S. government has officially warned Cuba and the brothers as well.
		The President signed what's called an executive state of emergency allowing enforcement of peaceful travel in international waters.
		Why he had to do that, I don't know.
		Cuba international waters were free to travel in without the need of executive orders, but that's what NBC said.
		Cuba says if provoked, it will respond.
		Could Castro be dumb enough to send his MIGs back out again?
		And if so, what do you expect will occur?
		A couple of other items that I've got to get on the air.
		This one blew me away.
		Do you remember when Jerry Adams, the head of the IRA's political wing, was invited to Washington?
		Do you remember that?
		And I bitched about it at the time.
		And here you've got a terrorist killer of being invited into the U.S. Do you remember that?
		You know, everybody said there was going to be peace with Britain and there was a chance for peace.
unidentified		And so you came over and there was peace for a little while.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And then the IRA recently began blowing things up in a very bloody fashion once again.
		Remember that?
		Last few days, you've seen the photographs, right?
		The boss in Israel blown into smithereens.
		They were picking parts of Israeli people out of the metal.
		Well, guess what?
		This one goes down as, can you believe it?
		Jerry Adams has just been granted a three-month visa to come to the U.S. by President Clinton.
		Oh, they say, well, the president was prisoned with him.
		But the political head of the IRA's political wing or the head of it, coming to this country right after these bombings, what in God's name is going on?
		And if that one is not enough for you, if that's not enough of a head shaker, try and figure this one out.
		The International War on Drugs was high on the president's agenda today.
		Excuse me, pardon.
		How can this be?
		Colombia, a nation that we know for sure, has the cartels and generates most of the cocaine that traverses by air, sea, or land to the U.S., Colombia has been given a failing grade, and that means that they're going to have U.S. aid cut off, more than a hand slap, they're going to lose a lot of money.
		Colombia gets an F, and they lose U.S. aid.
		Okay?
		Until you look at Mexico.
		The Justice Department just said of Mexico, and I quote, no country in the world poses a more immediate narcotic threat to the U.S., the United States, than does Mexico, end quote.
		That is from our own State Department.
		Mexico, which is said to be a bigger problem drug-wise than Colombia, tasked with flying colors, will continue to get paid.
		Even though, again quoting, Mexico is America's biggest cocaine supplier, both tasked with flying colors, the president apparently has declined to do anything at all to Mexico because Mexico's economy is too craggy.
		And Mexico, being adjacent to our border, is, quote, too important to us, end quote.
		If this isn't the craziest, nonsensical foreign policy that I've ever seen in my whole life, I don't know what is.
		So, we care about Colombia, which is generating drugs that are coming up here, enough to cut them off completely.
		Because they're not on our border, because their economy is otherwise perhaps okay.
		But Mexico, which, by the government's own words, is a much bigger problem, passes, and we lie to ourselves and say they're not a problem.
		My God.
		What is wrong with this country?
		What is wrong with the people in Washington if they can even consider doing anything like this?
		The hypocrisy, apparently, is Cannot be too big for them.
		All right, one more item, and then we'll get to the phones here.
		It is, of course, the primary.
		Yeah, we'll hit a little politics here.
		The primary today in South Carolina, Jason's first southern primary.
		And it is interesting because the results of it may well, in my opinion, eliminate Lamar Alexander.
		It may be his last hurrah.
		I've got a late Reuters poll for you in South Carolina.
		Steve Forbes can obviously hang in there.
		Bob Dole has kind of got to win, and may well.
		Pat Buchanan is hoping for an upset, and he's got to prove to people that he's still in the race.
		And then what occurred in Arizona was just an unhappy mistake, and he's still in the race, and the big mo is, you know, still with him.
		Let me give you the latest I've got.
		Earlier in the week, a Georgia poll shows Bole with 31%, Buchanan, 23%.
		That's a pretty big delta.
		Lamar Alexander, 16%, and the winner of Arizona, Forbes, is just 6% in single digits.
		So Lamar has a bit of a home field advantage.
unidentified		Forbes doesn't seem to be carrying very much interest in the South.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Always the possibility of the wildcard Buchanan doing its goal.
		If Dole were to lose in Georgia, for example, and South Carolina, he'd be in trouble.
		I think Buchanan is right.
		The Dole candidacy would disintegrate rather quickly.
		So this from Georgia.
		But check it out.
		Coming up next week after South Carolina, nine primaries next week alone.
unidentified		Nine.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		So this whole thing is going to shake out very quickly.
		Alan Keyes, eliminated from most recent debates, is so angry, so angry.
		And Alan Keyes, by the way, is probably the most articulate, save Pat Buchanan, who's also very articulate.
		But Alan Keyes is just tremendous to listen to.
		He's on a hunger strike.
		He's so angry that until they allow him to debate, he's not eating.
		Can you imagine that?
		All right, to the phone.
		By the way, if you want a copy of last night's program, a very important program with Richard Hopeland, or tonight's program, a very important and very strange, strange program, one of the stranger ones I've done on radio, and I've done some pretty weird ones.
		You can get copies.
		You do have copies, at 1-800-917-4278.
		Let me give that to you again.
		This is strange stuff tonight.
		1-800-917-4278.
		See, I think I've got one other thing I've got to get on.
		We're going to have a book signing on March 16th in Oregon.
		In Portland, Oregon.
		And it's going to be at about high noon at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, beginning officially at about high noon.
		It'll be interesting because we will have done at that point a show with Richard the previous night.
		Get done with the show, get on an airplane, go up Portland, and we'll be doing a book signing.
		The only one I'm ever going to do.
		Save the books I'm going to sign on our trees.
		This will be the only book signing I ever do.
		So it's a one-shot affair.
		Hope to see you there.
		In the meantime, if you want a copy of my book, either the hardcover version, Yard of Talk, which is just selling like crazy now, and so thank you all, or the audio copy of my book,
		which is now out, just out, when you order either one of them, you get this very special 5x7 color photograph of me, which I have signed in a gold pen.
		It's really quite pretty.
		And it's quite famous.
		It actually appeared on the front page of the LA Times Calendar section when they did it.
		So you get it now, but I don't know for how much longer.
unidentified		All right?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Here's what I want you to do.
		When you call the number I'm about to give, ask the operator if you're going to get the special address.
		If she says yes, that means you will get a copy of that photograph free of charge with either one of the books you order.
		And if she says no, that means supplies have been exhausted, and then you won't be angry at me.
		So you be sure and ask the operator, please.
		The number is 1-800-64-7991.
		That's 1-800-64-7991.
		And then I promise you, we will get to the bottom of the story on this satellite.
		Weird stuff.
		And we will get photographs, and we will share them with you.
		West of the Rockies, you're on air.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Alex, this is Matt Hawk from IRST.
		And we're wondering if you could give out that URL for the satellite picture.
		I've got about a million of them here now, my friend.
		I really can't.
		If you didn't get it, you read it twice.
		I didn't get it all either.
		No, it's the one you got in on the fact that you asked for someone to send to your email.
unidentified		Oh, yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's in a pile of papers about a mile high.
		I'll see if I can dredge it out.
		They're all wanting it, Art.
unidentified		I know, I know, I know, I know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I'll see what I can do.
		I can't make any promises.
		I've got about a thousand thoughts here that have come in.
		So I'll try and go through at the top of the hour and dredge it out.
		Very good, Art.
		Thank you.
		All right, thank you.
		And by the way, are the people on the URL, have they made it over to the real audio section?
		Are they talking about that at all?
		Yes, they have.
		I've tried it.
		Some of the audio speed sometimes seems a bit low.
		Well, they're working on it.
		I mean, this is up within the last few days or something.
		It's a pretty big deal.
		You know, people can actually hear you now where you don't get full coverage of your show.
		Oh, there is that here in the U.S., and then, as you well know, it's worldwide.
		Right.
		So they're going to be listening in London.
		All right, my friends.
		Thank you very much.
		I'll see if I can get that fast out.
unidentified		This is CBD.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
		112 now.
		And here I am.
		Oh, I have an idea.
		I have an idea.
unidentified		You guys know me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		This could really be fun.
		As you know, we'll get to that in a minute.
		We're going to go international here in a minute.
		I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but we're going to do it.
		Listen, what you're hearing right now is Tusso.
		It's a group called Tusso, Germany.
		C-U-S-E-S-A-P-O-W-A-B.
		I just have a couple questions here.
		I'm wondering if Cuba may not be a distraction and that maybe we ought to be looking to hard here tomorrow in the next few days, or maybe...
		It usually isn't.
		But Saturday we've got the primary and we've got this thing going on in Cuba.
		And all eyes are going to be either in one direction or the other.
		And certainly not up if you follow me.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm wondering if it's a chance to check out our new feathered weaponry.
unidentified		Of course.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I can't say it's weaponry, but I can certainly say based on what Hoagland said in a million patches here, it's that there's something going on.
		Okay.
		My name is Jim, by the way.
		I'm listening in out of time.
		KCMO.
unidentified		Right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, Jim, and thanks, KCMO.
		All right, thanks, Buddha.
		Take care.
		So, there you got it.
		I feel, as Jim feels, there is something going on.
		And the new focus is going to be on the primaries.
		The new focus is going to be on CIPA.
		And properly so, these are events worthy of coverage.
		But it's going to make it awfully easy not to cover some other things.
		If you suffer from headaches, neckaches, sports injuries, low back discomfort, arthritis, rheumatism, dracy, menstrual pain, joint pain, any kind of pain, let me tell you about Laprina.
		No more waiting for pain relievers to kick in.
		No more settling for alternative pain relievers, just because your system is aspirin-sensitive.
		Just spray on Laprina topical aspirin and enjoy soothing relief without side effects.
		It really is that easy, and it works.
		It actually penetrates your skin right down to where the pain is.
		Remember the name Laprina.
		That's Laprina.
		And you're hearing a lot about this remarkable product.
		Believe me.
		I've used Latrina on my bad backs, and the fast-acting results are truly amazing.
		Spray it on, the pain's gone.
		Some pain sufferers are calling the almost instant results miraculous.
		But you cannot get it at your local drugstore.
		If you want fast-acting, comfortable pain relief, just order Latrina by calling 1-800-308-4565.
		That's 1-800-308-4565.
		The truly reasonable cost is a bargain for this revolutionary new product.
		And when you call, be sure and ask the folks at help naturally how you can get Latrina at an even greater savings.
		Call 1-800-308-4565.
		Just spray it on and the pain is gone.
		It really does work, as a matter of fact.
		Again, we're holding open one line, please, for international calls only, whether it be by the internet or by one of our very powerful affiliates.
		It is area code 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		And everybody in this country, in Canada and Mexico, has got to give us a break here and let these people internationally try to get through.
		And then there's this.
		Here are, I also heard on Togo about the 200 people dead from the, again in quotes, flu in some remote islands in Indonesia.
		The report compared it to a similar incident that occurred in Africa last year.
		This is another very weird report, folks.
		Good morning.
		You're on air.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		Kodiak, Alaska.
		Okay, sir.
		Well, we're trying to hold this line open for international calls.
unidentified		I see.
unidentified		I thought maybe I was out far enough for that to be applicable, but apparently I don't know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		We're very happy to hear from you in Kodiak.
		But we are trying to reach way out, Europe, the Pacific, South America.
		In other words, points way out.
		And so we're holding that line open for people way out there.
		Area code 702-727-1222.
		Good morning.
		Where are you calling from, please?
		McMinnville, Oregon.
		I just want to call.
		Okay, well, no, sorry.
		That's on our international line.
		West of the Rockies, you're on here.
		I have a question about your cruise.
		Yes.
		When you're gone, are you going to be repeat on the radio?
		Any repeat on the cruise?
		Well, we haven't decided yet.
		You know, it's still...
		It's going to be August 3rd.
		It's a 12-day cruise.
		I hate how to repeat all that time.
		Well, I doubt you will.
unidentified		Okay, thank you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're welcome.
		Goodbye.
		Wildcard Line, you're on here.
		You have a stuff with Richard Hopeland?
unidentified		Yes.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Yeah, that type of thing John Dew was a couple of years ago with the Mars Observer.
		It really is.
		It's reminiscent of that, isn't it?
		And the book I got that I'm holding now, The Monuments from Mars, I bought it one week before the Mars Observer went out.
		And I was so excited about the Mars Observer.
		It was headlined on U.S. News and World Report as approaching Mars.
		And we did a small article about Hoagland in it.
		And I was showing people pictures of his book and what was in it and saying they've either got to kill it or cover it up.
		Yes.
		And Lombio, they covered it up.
		Well, that, of course, is also the opinion of Richard Hoagland, as you're well aware.
		And I have no way of knowing.
		I'm not a scientist.
		I'm slightly technically inclined.
		Just a note, I am taking an astronomy class at Palomar.
		Yes, sir.
		And in their observatory, or that is, what is it, that observatory where you go to see the probe ends and stuff, they are taking it seriously for the first time.
		I was very skeptical that they would.
		They were talking about the planets, et cetera, et cetera.
		And they actually showed a slide of the face, and they made the comment at the end, is there life or not, or has there been?
		And so the mainstream is starting to take it seriously.
		I appreciate your call, sir.
		Thank you.
		Here's that fact that the people on the chat channel, IRC chat channel, asked me to locate.
		The web address that you guys wanted is HTTP: T forward classes, NIFTOF, but L-I-F-T-O-F-F.
		Dot M as in Mary, S as in Silver, F as in Fox, C as in Charlie, dot NASA, N-A-S-A, dot, G-O-V as in government, forward slash S-T-S dash 75,
		forward slash media, forward slash media underscore image I-M-A-G-E dot H T M L God, I need these addresses.
unidentified		I need them!
unidentified		So hopefully somebody will just send this to me.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		They have got to do something about these addresses.
		My web page can be accessed by simply going www.artbell.com.
		Now, that's, I guess, because the server is centrally located in the internet or something.
		But my God, these addresses.
		So, hopefully, that will be emailed to me.
		We will get it up on the bullet board.
		And by the way, while I'm on the subject of computer stuff, our VIDIN program is available now, I believe, only on our bulletin board.
		The updated version for the README file is on our bulletin board.
		If you want it, you're going to want to download a file called video.zip.
unidentified		Video.zip.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And our bulletin board number, which is just 24 hours a day, is Area Code 702-727-1709.
		There's an updated version with the README file, and it's called Video.zip.
		And you get it at Area Code 702-727-1709.
		It is a color with motion and sound video telephone.
		When you get it, put it in Windows.
		It says IBM and compatible program.
unidentified		Not the Mac yet.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And put it in Windows and just simply click on the little telephone there and you'll see the most amazing sight you've ever seen in your whole life.
		You'll see me sitting here during my program or you'll be able to call the Sea Praying Company during the day and see more.
		Animals, you sound.
unidentified		It's unbelievable.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Unbelievable.
unidentified		And good morning.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where are you calling from, please?
		Everything, Oklahoma.
		Okay, we're holding this open now for international calls only, sir.
unidentified		Oh!
art bell ▲ ● ▼		I thank you for the call.
		And once again, let me say it again so that everybody knows.
		See, if the phone gets jammed up with everybody else like that calling from domestic sources, the people internationally don't have a chance.
		So if you are way out there, area code 702-727-1222.
		702 in the USA, 702-727-1222.
		East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
		Hey, let me come over again, Darmark.
unidentified		Pete.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		It's important to do that right away, folks, when you get on the air, so have it close at hand.
		Pete, I'm a 40-year-old.
		I've never voted in my life.
		But I wanted everybody to know that there are a lot of me that are out there.
		A lot of you?
		You're 40 years old and you've never voted.
		Yeah, all except for union business.
		Where are you, by the way?
		I'm in Center, Colorado.
		All right.
		Why have you never voted?
		I mean, you get to be 40 and never vote.
		Well, I've always left that up to the people who thought they knew what they were doing.
unidentified		And apparently, they, you know.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Are you sure you do not underestimate yourself, sir?
		Well, I am registered now.
		Oh, you are?
		And you're going to vote?
		Oh, yes.
		And I don't care if Steven Herman is running for president, he will get my vote.
		Uh, excuse me.
unidentified		Yeah.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, to get Clinton out of office.
		Oh, I see.
		I don't care who is easy to anybody for Clinton, even D. V. Herman, eh?
		Exactly.
		Well, at least you're motivated.
		Yeah, yeah, it took him to do it.
		I was afraid that you had moved from total non-caring to a total vote without any reason at all.
		I appreciate it, Cole.
		I'm glad you're motivated now to vote.
		That's good.
		Oh, mile, mile, mile, mile.
		Mr. Tyler, once more here on my so-called international line, you're on here.
		Hello.
unidentified		Hello.
unidentified		Oh, far enough away for you, Prison Arsenal.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		Hold on.
		No.
		He says he's got articles about vacuum in the night skies about 6 o'clock off Magic Harland to see if it's their satellite.
		And so Dr. Baggett will be here tomorrow morning speaking from 9 a.m. to 12.30 a.m.
		All right.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Listen, I appreciate that, but we're holding this open for international calls.
		And I tried to get a hold of Dr. Baggett, but he was received in Honolulu, and I guess he's going to be back home in the last game speaking.
		Okay.
		Selective tennis.
		We take a second half and talk about selective tennis, right?
		It is $54.95, and it's going up in price to $57.95.
		$54.95 right now.
		April 1st, it goes to $57.95.
		Trust me when I tell you, or Leonard, who's been calling over several days now talking about select lieutenant, there is nothing else like this product in the world.
		It will double your daytime reception.
		It will cut out 90% of the saving at night.
		It really works.
		I mean, it's one of those things.
		All right.
		Now, my understanding of the way HAARP works is that there's a very, very large antenna for him.
		I've got photographs of it.
		That produces a very wide signal where it begins, but where it hits the ionosphere, or where they want it to hit the ionosphere, it's a very narrow, very powerful beam.
		In other words, it operates in the exact opposite way most antennas arrays would operate.
		Yes, but that's how Bernard Eastman got the original patent by showing that huge difference in capability.
		And it's the way they fire the antenna array, the way the sequence that's firing, the cause it's focused the beam as opposed to letting it dissipate the distance.
		Which means they could hit a very small spot.
		Like, for example, the dangling 12.
		Oh, yeah, it'd be easier to target this ELF antenna that's orbiting the Earth.
		Now, let me read you something interesting on page 7.
unidentified		You know, this is going to become the greatest hits of HARP.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		This is page 7.
		It starts out, HARP Unique Features Current Plan.
		Remember, this was 95.
		We should tell people that this document that we're reading from, Nick, if you turn to the front, the copy I have says Department of Defense Information Paper, Service Slash Agency, Department of the Air Force, Appropriation Account, RDT and EAF, which is Air Force, budget activity, number three, advanced development, subject high-frequency active auroral research program, that's what HAARP stands for.
		One, question slash request.
		Staff Assistant for the Senate Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Defense, requested a brief program overview and status update on the HAARP program.
		Two, response.
		HAARP is a research program developing a facility to study fundamental physical principles of the Earth's upper atmosphere.
		Key potential technology applications are in the areas of detection of subterranean tunnels, slash structures, and communications.
		I'll get back to that in a minute.
		Located at the former Over-the-Horizon backscatter site at Kocona, Alaska, the facility will consist of a high-frequency HF phased array transmitter.
		This will be complemented by numerous scientific diagnostic instruments, both active and passive, to observe the artificial effects created by the interaction of the high-power HF beam on the ionosphere.
		At present, a developmental prototype has been constructed consisting of a 48-antenna array with a maximum re-radiated power of 360 kilowatts.
		Now, as a parenthetical note, all the numbers in this document are hyperdimensional.
		48, 360, etc., etc.
		Which raises an interesting question as to hidden agendas.
		Fabrication of this equipment was completed in November 1994, and testing is in progress.
		Remember, this was a report as of 29 November 95 on my document here.
		All right, do the two of you agree on what HARP is?
		But wait a minute, let me get...
		Go ahead.
		Go ahead.
		Several pieces of cyber diagnostic equipment are already in place to monitor background characteristics of the aurora ioniser over Gracona and to provide a baseline for the radio frequency spectral environment.
		A capability to interrogate the diagnostic instruments over the internet is being implemented, which will enable principal investigators to monitor their experiments directly from their laboratories.
		In other words, gentlemen, they don't even have to be at the site anymore.
		They can be anywhere in the world and run this thing by computer like we're talking tonight.
		Right, that's been in the, actually was in the specification for the construction of the facility right from the very beginning.
		But as I understand it, the EPA and the FDC and the watchdogs supposedly looking at this in terms of local interference and all that have been assuring the local residents in Alaska that there are personnel on site and nothing is being done without human supervision, et cetera, et cetera.
		Right, they have a watchman on site who's totally ignorant of the scientific application.
		And that's the extent.
		Now, they have put people On site from the University of Alaska, you know, to watch computer screens and so forth.
		But, you know, whether they're running the experiments or just gatekeepers is difficult to say.
		This document, which now the document I was reading from, is a memorandum.
		There was a request from the Senate, the Senate subcommittee, by someone on staff or some senator.
unidentified		This is the University of Maryland.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The committee was composed of the following members.
		And then it lists the committee chairman and the membership.
		And what I find stunningly interesting, along with Paul Bernhardt and Dennis Papadopoulos and Herbert Carlson and William Gordon, gives the name Roland D. Sikdeov.
		All right, do you recognize Roland Sikdeov?
		I do not, no.
		Rolik Tikdeov was the chief science advisor to Mikhail Gorbachev and head of the Soviet Union's space program.
		He is a plasma physicist.
		He is over here now as a distinguished professor of physics at the University of Maryland.
		He is a current member of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
		He is a member of the Foreign Secretary of the National Academy of Sciences.
		And his former boss just entered the presidential sweepstakes race to become president of Russia and was on Larry King last night.
		Yeah, at 0.5% approval.
		Listen, I want to again ask, do you two agree on what ARP is?
		It's nothing.
		All right, let me tell you what it's not.
		It's not what they've been telling us it is.
		In fact, I think it has little connection to anything that's in the open literature.
		Meaning not to keep the eye on a fear, not to look for underground caverns.
		Well, not as pure science.
		I think we are light years beyond, you know, probing.
		I think, you know, beginning in the 1960s, we put up Alouettes.
		We put up a ton of satellites, orbiting geophysical observatories.
		We've had radars, tropospheric radars.
		We've had Dewine, BEMU systems.
		I mean, if the Air Force really thinks it has to characterize the ionosphere in the 90s, where we've been beaming high-frequency radio energy into the ionosphere since the 40s.
		Yes, sir.
		Okay.
		The point is, we're down to the level of technical application, and the question is, what is it really being used for?
		And that's why the numbers are important.
		The acronym is important.
		And its sighting is important relevant to the hyperdimensional grid on this planet.
		All right, Dr. Begits, what do you say, Arpez?
		I mean, do you seem to be in agreement?
		Yeah, I think so.
		I mean, I agree.
		It's not just an ionospheric experiment to learn about what the ionosphere is.
		I think I agree that we already know that.
		What I believe, and I have believed, is it's a prototype for a weapon system.
		And the application's potential beyond what we've defined in our work, I would not disagree with what Richard is saying.
		I have less knowledge of what he's saying, so it's something that I'll need to come up to speed on over time.
		But I've never believed this to be a purely scientific research project.
		I mean, it smells to hide heaven.
		When you research the data, when you look at the material, it's just not there.
		I mean, in looking at the operators of this system and how they've developed the technologies, it's too big to hide.
		So you develop the mask behind which you hide, and that's exactly what they've done by characterizing it as a purely scientific research project.
		The reason it's getting a lot of money right now is part of the Senator's Committee for Defense is Senator Stevens from Alaska.
		And this is the pot from which the money flows, and he's hyping it here during his election year as this great gods and pork barrels.
		It's a wonderful backyard Alaskan port barrel.
		And the thing that's happened here that's interesting, and one of the sort of a side notes, is that they are, in fact, trusting this earth-penetrating tomography application, which was set as a priority for the Senate.
		Nick, you better describe what Earth-Penetrating Tomography is.
		This is the idea of looking into the Earth several miles into the Earth.
		And to look at the interior, and the way they've characterized it is for locating underground nuclear facilities and tunnels and so forth.
		But one of the thing that's interesting here is the local newspaper, which has the largest circulation in Alaska, the only thing they've printed on carp is this particular application early on as being extremely good for the state because it would also have the potential of locating underground oil deposits, natural gas deposits, because the strata that they're formed within is so much different.
		It's forest material, much different than the surrounding rock.
		What's interesting is the location of PART is within 20, 30 miles of the Alaska pipeline, which is only running at about 65% capacity right now in terms of oil.
		The state is in a financial crunch because of its oil revenue declines.
		What is interesting is by testing its application at this particular juncture where our legislature is in session.
		If they were able to say to the state legislature, there's a strong indication that there may be oil reserves because it is situated within a potential oil basin that's been defined by USGS for years and years, in fact, a couple of decades, if they actually found something there at this particular juncture as the controversy over this technology is rising,
		they would in fact be able to co-opt, I think, our legislature into supporting the project as opposed to standing against it because of the potential revenue stream developed by immediate reserves located close to a pipeline that's not at capacity.
		It's on the road system.
		The logistics are extremely good for developing a field so they could discover one.
		Plus the ability to generate a much higher rate of revenue return on a known deposit that you could define the perimeters of in terms of leasing.
		And within this, you have native holdings and land holdings.
		My father was responsible for Native Clan Settlement Act, which gave Native Alaska 44 million acres.
	Gentlemen, hold it right there for a moment.
	We're at a breakpoint.
	We'll be right back.
	I believe you'll be able to tap the two of you during the news.
	And we will be back.
unidentified		This is BBC.
		Artel is taking calls on the wildcard line at 702-727-1295.
		That's 702-727-1295.
		First-time callers can reach Art Bell at 702-727-1222.
		702-727-1222.
		Now, here again, Art Bell.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Once again, here I am.
		My guests are Richard Hoaglin, a NASA consultant, science advisor to Walter Cronkite, and Engston Science Award winner in New York, and Dr. Nick Beggett, author of Angels Don't Play Biz Harp in Alaska, where Harp is.
		Back to them in a moment.
		You hear the music you're hearing right down my show about every night.
		It is awesome.
unidentified		It is tea.
unidentified		Today won't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		All right, back now to my two guests.
		Here's a quick article.
		This will set it up very well for you.
		This is from the Anchorage Daily News, March 7th.
		Gwen Allen, local residents worried about a government oral research project in Alaska gathered at the Caribou Cafe a few days ago to watch a video about the program and share their concerns.
		They viewed a video that included a piece on the high-frequency active oral research program, or HAARP, and a copy of the segment on the project from the Sightings Television Program.
		The PSA HARP is actually a secret military project.
		Rather than the military-sponsored scientific research project, HAARP spokesman John Hexler says some local residents are worried the project has potentially negative side effects, which might include the potential to change the weather, the ability to scramble brain waves, the ability to zap the sky, and fears it could open a hole in the ionosphere and trigger a chain reaction that is much worse than the ozone hole.
		Others fear the project could disrupt communications, stun people with electrical charges, change migratory patterns in salmon, and affect the DNA in embryos.
		The main concern presented in the video is that HAARP could lead to a CIA-sponsored futuristic weapon.
		That's the Anchorage Daily News, March 7th.
		Gentlemen, you're back on the air.
		Well, that article was actually interesting.
		In fact, we'll be up in Glenn Allen speaking probably to that same gather group here this next weekend.
		It's gotten a lot of play.
		We've brought the issue forward here.
		We've done a number of lectures here in Alaska.
		We've put out lots of radio all over the country.
		And what we find is each time that we get on the air, we get inundated with another landslide of documents, information, some not connected, some connected, but this most recent event with the space shuttle that you folks have been on the air with the last week or so has certainly raised again serious questions from our perspective.
		This is supposedly a research project.
		Every time that we've looked at it, we just can't see pure research in it.
		All we can see is military application.
		And I think what Richard has been saying is probably very, very accurate.
		And what we're seeing is more and more confirmation of the accuracy of it.
		And here we are again talking about something close to the open science, but we have to peel the onion another layer to find out the next bit and piece of information.
		What's interesting here now is our legislature is in session, and with these meetings occurring and the particular probing that we were talking about earlier, what may happen at this point is a collapsion of our legislature by showing this wonderful geophysical probing application as they're characterizing it with some demonstrated find.
		And that, right now, we have a legislator, Gene Cabina, who is calling for state affairs a committee of our state legislature to open hearings on the topic.
		And hopefully, you know, people will bang on our legislature early enough in the game to get those hearings.
		Well, that would certainly keep the money flowing because a lot of people don't know this, but Alaskans realize a yearly dividend from oil, don't they?
		That's right.
		And it amounts to approximately $1,000 per person, sort of like a family of four pieces of people.
		You know, at this point, I do want to beg to differ with you.
		I don't think that the purpose of this is anything as trivial as looking for oil or making money for Alaska.
		I think that's the kind of local, you know, gravy train that has gotten people like Stevens and others to support this.
		Right, that's what I'm suggesting.
		That's the mask.
		But I think it's much bigger, and I do not think, in fact, they're military.
		I think, you know, with all due respect, a well-overused phrase these days, that that's another red herring.
		And I don't mean that you're proposing it.
		I think you sincerely believe.
		But in terms of the parameter in which you've been looking, that's a logical potential explanation for the inexplicable.
		What ARP knows full well is that our team has been looking at things that are so stunning and extraordinary that the inexplicable becomes almost the norm.
		So let me raise some additional ideas for what HART really may be up to.
		And I must say, gentlemen, that I really wasn't all that concerned with this thing until the shuttle incident made me kind of look at it, and I began putting the numbers together.
		And as you know, Art, that's what we do over here.
		All right, but Richard, I think you really do both agree.
		What Nick was saying was that's the local political slant to keep the dollar flow.
		And that makes a lot of that sense.
		I totally agree with that, but I think to learn HOPE.
		HARP is not to make money.
		It's not to find out.
		It's not to see the means.
		It's not a CIA plot to control people's brains or to do any of these things.
		I believe it is part of the global planetary quickening that you and I have discussed.
		Now, let me raise a theory here, a hypothesis, and then you guys can take shots at it, if you will.
		A person who should be participating in this discussion tonight, who is not here yet, but will be, I believe, is Graham Hancock.
		Graham Hancock.
		Nick, are you familiar with Graham's work?
		I don't believe so.
		All right.
		Graham is a former reporter for the London Economist and the London Times.
		He is a hell of a writer and a hell of a nice guy and extremely interested in the truth as I am.
		And we have met.
		He spent last weekend here when the NBC show on the mysterious Origins of Man was airing.
	NBC brought him over to do some promos.
	So we had an occasion to spend the entire weekend together going over a lot of data, both in terms of our work on the moon and Mars and in terms of his interest in former ancient civilizations, which time and events have erased from current human memory.
	And one of the things that is really converging here is that it's becoming more and more probable that we are not the first.
	That we are heir to a legacy of preceding previous cycles of high technological civilization on the planet that for whatever reason have disappeared, leaving only traces, both physical traces and legendary historical, textual, or artifact traces.
	In that model, if there is a precipitant catastrophe which overwhelms the human species on a periodic or quasi-periodic basis, in terms of Graham's research and my own, you know, independent, and many, many, many others, all right, it looks as if maybe there is an effort to save some people when these times approach where whatever happens is going to happen.
	More earthquakes, more volcanoes leading towards some great catastrophic occurrence.
	So one of the models has been that when the previous civilizations realized their number was up, a group, an elite, tried to preserve themselves through availing themselves of various options, up to and including digging big holes in the ground and hiding and hoping it would go away, or hoping they could come out after it had gone away.
	Now, what's interesting is that in the American southwest, not far from you, in fact surrounding you, there are several Native American tribes who have some remarkable legends.
	And I've personally gone and researched them on 2 Mesa.
	It turns out that Graham and I were there within a week of each other and didn't even know each other at that point.
	So our work was converging to try to get an historical perspective from the elders of these tribes as to their own history, their oral traditions, in terms of prophecies for the future, the so-called Hopi prophecies being the best known of these ideas that time is cyclic,
	that civilizations are cyclic, and there have been preceding worlds or suns or epochs of which this one is going to come to an end like the other ones did.
	And there are various discussions as to how much time remains before events again transpire which wiped out preceding civilizations.
	Now, if this is more than myth, and there is increasing substantive, documentable, reproducible scientific evidence.
	There is, yes.
	And you have spent many programs, and I'm sure you're going to spend a lot more.
	I saw the program.
	The mysterious article.
	Yeah, there.
	So, yes.
	All right.
	Well, I have been quietly, through my sources, digging into the evidentiary record, and I've got to say that I think that Graham is 100% right, and we're going to have some very interesting news to report soon on that front.
	Now, why is Hoagland and company, the Mars mission, interested in ancient technical civilizations on Earth?
	Well, the obvious answer, guys, is that if we're not the first, then maybe the stuff we're seeing out in the solar system is not E.T. stuff, but our stuff.
	And we have just forgotten that we used to do those great and wondrous things because several intervening cycles of destruction and memory loss have intervened so that we're now down to the titration of the titration of the titration, and almost nobody remembers except in myth and legend and Native American tradition.
	Well, if somebody dug great holes, then there might be interest in finding those great holes.
	Oh, you go to the head of the class.
	And who would have the resources and the ability to lie on a global scale and carry out such a program?
	The military.
	I think HARP is looking for the holes.
	Now, why would they be interested in the holes?
	Well, two reasons.
	One is to hide in them.
	And the other, which I think is more likely, suppose we're not the first.
	Suppose someone has put caches of electronics and libraries and storehouses of information and other material buried deep, deep, deep with a technology that we can't even hope to match, sir.
	Wouldn't our guys like to find that stuff?
	Wouldn't it be like Christmas?
	All that neat stuff they could turn into new weapons, and that's where the military comes back into its own.
	To a lot of people, this is going to sound really wild, but it sounds as wild as the Soviet Union collapsing, and the former, the last president of the Soviet Union resigning in disgrace to suddenly be reborn as a new candidate in the run for the presidency of Russia, and his principal science advisor sitting on a committee at the University of Maryland writing a document for the U.S. Senate on HAARP.
	All right, look, Richard, let me stop you.
	I want to ask a quick question.
	Maybe out left field.
	This comes in from Texas.
	But if this tether allowed a charge to reach the shuttle, could this cause a major problem when they hit atmosphere or touch down?
	In other words, what happens to the charge when they begin to re-enter?
	Oh, it's leaked off into the ionosphere, so there won't be no additional danger to the shuttle.
	No, no, no, no.
	It was a discharge.
	It was gone.
	The electrons float back into the ionosphere.
	Everything equated out to zero potential.
	But it was that instant discharge which caused the electrical problems with the computers because of this phenomena called EMP, electromagnetic pulse.
	And I am seriously concerned tonight about these guys' safety because, as you all know, computers are very fragile.
	It doesn't take much to make them stop working.
	I've been fighting with mine all day.
	And the idea that those guys are dependent totally on computers, even if they're backups, remember, all these backups were exposed to the same savage blast of radiation when that thing cut loose.
	Now, the shuttle electronics are hardened militarily.
	Remember, the shuttle was designed by the Defense Department.
	It was not NASA.
	It was the DOD, which basically wrote the spec for the space shuttle.
	Because it was at the height of the Cold War.
	It was when Reagan was calling the Soviet Union the evil empire, and they wanted enormous footprints for, you know, left and right so it could land almost anywhere.
	They wanted, you know, it to be able to survive nuclear weapons banged off in the air.
	I mean, they put all kinds of overspecs in it.
	So I think that's why maybe only one computer program has suffered some damage, and not all of them.
	But because there's a screen of deception between us and the truth, in a supposedly open space agency, we're not going to know until these guys test down this morning whether, in fact, this is much more serious than they've been letting off.
	Well, I've listened to both of you very carefully on separate occasions, and both of you seem to feel there is this compartmentalization going on within NASA, within HAARP, that may have some sort of commonality about it.
	Dr. Begits, do you think that might be so?
	Absolutely.
	I mean, that's the whole nature of weapons development.
	I mean, they compartmentalize to the point where you have active researchers developing small components that standing alone, you know, they do stand alone.
	They look fine.
	They appear fine.
	But when you start to draw the linkages, bringing them together at some high level within the Pentagon, then you start to take, of course, take a different form and a different shape.
	And I think that's what we have, certainly in the HARP program.
	And, you know, without taking away from anything that Richard said, I think that what he's demonstrating is, again, another level, another layering of potential applications for this technology that go way, way beyond what the military has characterized it as.
	And again, the expressed concern, here we have an effect on this dangling tether that nobody anticipated that demonstrates, once again, our limited knowledge in playing God is dionosphere.
	And again, we're looking at those nonlinear effects, those effects that don't make sense logically and yet they occur that could create, precipitate huge, huge problems on the planet, which we've spoken about on your program before.
	All right, here's what Dr. Begott says, Richard, that a very small focus of intense energy at one point in the apse, or in the ionosphere, rather, correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Beggett, that you believe could produce a kind of a cascading effect throughout the ionosphere, correct?
	Well, it isn't throughout the ionosphere.
	The idea there is that if you focus these beams, and these beams are spherical, they have 30-degree plus or minus coverage of Malaska.
	As the diagram in the Senate document demonstrates, you know, the global reach of the facility is much bigger than one might imagine under even conventional, you know, reasoning and extrapolation.
	What happens is if you focus these beams along magnetic field lines and you create an intense, what's called precipitation of particles, what happens is the charged particles that are spiraling around the magnetic field lines from the Van Allen radiation belt are basically diverted and can be dumped into the atmosphere,
	creating, in effect, artificial aurora.
	And what's intriguing about this is that for some years we have been considering, you know, in the literature, the UFO crap particularly, that if somebody wanted to stage an event, a really spectacular event, they'd need high technology to do it.
	And this makes a dandy way to stage an event.
	Remember Irwin Allen's movie, the one with the Richard Besard and the sequest and all that?
	The day the radiation belt caught fire or something like that?
	You could with HAARP precipitate the most spectacular particle dumping and artificial aurora across the entire northern tier and southern tier of the auroral zone, including most of the United States, all of Europe, the Soviet Union.
	You know, you could create the most spectacular fireworks by simply triggering with your own input of energy much larger massive natural forces.
	So you're both really saying the same thing.
	But the question would be why?
	Why would you want to do this?
	Well, okay, let's find out if you agree, Doctor.
	I don't disagree with that.
	In fact, we were talking about ancient prophecies, so to speak, earlier.
	There's an Alaska Native prophecy that says that at the end of the age, through man's manipulation, the sky will turn red like fire.
	And it's an interesting correlation to what Richard just described.
	Now we go back to the number of antennas and the number of transmitters.
	I mean, this almost sounds like numerology art, but we have some evidence of some levels of this government playing with this physics almost like a ritual magic, a talisman, all right?
	This physics.
	Almost like a ritual magic, a talisman, all right?
	Where if you do certain things by the numbers while you're supposed to happen.
	And it's very interesting, Nick, that you bring up these native traditions because it looks like somebody is almost trying to follow a script.
	All right, you two, on that note, the script note, hold on, we'll be right back.
	We'll do another half hour.
	You're listening to Dr. Nick Betty in Alaska, Richard Hoagland in New York.
	I'm Mark Bell in the high desert.
	Stay right where you are.
	$15.95.
	All you've got to lose is your tax debt.
	That's $1-800-34, no tax.
	1-834, no tax.
	All right, this may seem off-topic, but in a way it's not.
	And I want to ask both of you this question.
	Here's a fact from Hawaii, Jerry, and White.
	What if the government discovered a simple 15-minute medical procedure that would increase lifespan on Earth to 150 years?
	And you'd be in good physical condition till about the age of 145 to 50, and then the body would stop in a period of one month without pain and suffering to the person.
	Which of the choices do you think would happen?
	A, the government would announce the new medical procedure, and we all live to 150 years.
	B, the government keeps it quiet and only uses the medical procedure on certain frozen people.
	Or C, there is a fire, and the discoverer and all his notes are destroyed.
	The discovery is lost.
	What do you gentlemen think would occur?
	Nick, do I go first?
	Yeah, I can probably see.
	I just think that's probably too.
	You both, boy, boy, boy.
	You know why?
	Well, why?
	They dare not let it out.
unidentified		So it has to be C. It has to be C, Nick?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so, too.
		I mean, it's the kind of thing that, you know, you have people living 150 years, and when you look at it, it's the kind of thing you'd be able to hide under national security because of the economic ramifications.
		I mean, how can a government with Social Security starting at 65 survive?
		How can you have a base of resources to provide for what would potentially be large numbers of people that just expand rapidly and continue to stay alive?
		I mean, the whole system isn't built around 150-year life cycles.
		Well, but it's even worse than that.
		150-year-old people, remember, the older you get, the smarter you get.
		As soon as you begin to figure out this whole system, you wind up peeling over.
		If the median age of adult, wise people voters progressed up 20, 30, 40 years, and all the games that go on, all the money that's hidden, all the larceny, all the libel, all the stealing, you know, we're in the primary season, folks, you can tell, all that would have to change.
		They can't live.
		There's no way that they would allow it out there.
		No way.
		They can't.
		And if you're talking about good health, which is what was described, you're talking about people that are actively engaged in the world they live in, and so you're not going to see that potential anyway.
		Well, the reason I ask you both this question is because in a way it relates to either one of the conclusions that you two have come to.
		You both believe, obviously, that HARP is not what they say it is.
		You may believe it is something different, each of you believing it's something different, but you both agree, don't you, that it's not what they're telling us.
		That's right.
		I think it is so much bigger, and it is so connected to the other parts of the research that we've been doing and discussing on your program.
		Well, you're just a little farther out on the tether, Richard.
		Thanks.
		And you had to get that in, didn't you?
		I'm sorry.
		Well, let me give you another data point.
		Remember, this project tries to go by science, no matter what our critics say, all right?
		And the way you gauge whether you're dealing with science is if there are specific, testable predictions.
		So this is where I need your audience.
		They've been stunningly sterling this past week.
		I've had a ton of very neat, sophisticated, and extraordinarily helpful faxes come in, particularly from the folks in Alaska.
		And if they're listening, I really want to thank them for their cooperation and providing me all this neat stuff.
		But just keep those cards and letters coming in.
		Our fax number, if you want to send us information on a range of topics, and I'll list what we need, is 201-271-1703.
		And we'll repeat that several times, I'm sure.
		Yeah, and you know what, Richard?
		I want to ask for a volunteer right now.
		You've got a lot of materials.
		We need to get it up on the internet.
		But we can't do that unless we can get the materials transferred from their fax form into appropriate HTML code to put them up on the internet.
		So we need a volunteer who could do that.
		And if there's anybody who would like to volunteer, please fax Richard at 201-271-1703.
		And then Richard will see to it that you get those materials, won't he?
		Yes, we will.
		All right.
		But we are, see, I have been avoiding the web until we were ready for putting our own research on.
		And even as I speak tonight, we're moving much faster than we were before.
		Before our event, Washington, I would like to have our website up active.
		Best way for you to do it right to look, Richard.
		My website's taken 10,000 hits a day.
		The best place you can be right now.
		I understand.
		I understand.
		We're in total agreement.
		But what we found, though, is that someone has not written codes to translate from a fax or even a document file into the language that the web uses.
		Okay, well, we need a good typist.
		Someone has to physically type all this file generation.
		All right, so we're looking for a volunteer, whoever it is, 201-271-1703.
		box, Richard, he'll get you the stuff.
		Now, let's, By getting into this, through this tether business, and understanding that HARP makers probably because of the both of them happened even a few years ago.
		For one thing, let me put the stake in the heart of the military thing.
		If this is a military weapon, if the security agencies and the CA and the DAD and all that are using this as some kind of cover for a military weapon, for God's sake, why have we included Russians in on it?
		Go back to your document and read the list of Russians participating in the steering committee.
		Absolutely.
		This is a shared project between us and the other superpower on the planet for stakes that are bigger than the Cold War, which never really was real in the first place.
		All right?
	So, what big stakes are there?
	There are only two: one is alien contact, and the other is survival.
	And I think that it is looking for the evidence, the hard evidence, that in fact we are not the first.
	And the way you hide information these days is you do it under multiple levels of military security.
	You talk about national security, and everybody's eyes glaze over, and senators don't ask questions, and you can do anything you damn well please.
	Now, there's another data point, because remember, in Graham's scenario, and in Rand Flemas, the Canadian researchers who've been looking into this and from which Graham borrowed much material, and even Charles Hapkid, who was probably one of the first, by the way, did you know that Charles Hapkin was TIA?
	No.
	Oh, that's yes.
	Really?
	He got his insight into the world tipping over from German files in Germany.
	And the Germans were scurrying around the planet looking for stuff.
	All right?
	A very good friend of mine has been talking with German officers from World War II about what the Germans were really up to, particularly at the end of the world, at the South Pole.
	He sent a whole bunch of expeditions down to the South Pole right after the war ended.
	Yeah, they did.
	Now, Graham and I believe, along with some other people like the Flemest, that the most probable place for the surviving remnants of the last epoch, the last high civilization on this planet, not with integrated.
	Now, our two investigations cross here, is that between Graham and me looking at ancient civilizations and remnants, either on planet or off-planet, and you wondering why HARP is sighted where it is and why it appears to be much more powerful than it needs to be,
	and why there are layers of deception and confusion and cover, what I have found is in looking for these underground cavities, lead bases, tunnels, stores of something, the sighting of HAARP is very specifically situated to probe the Giza Plateau.
	And if you begin now to look at the orbit of the untethered satellite, in the next week, a week and a half, it will drift repeatedly over the plateau.
	And with a combination of radio waves, it will radiate in sympathetic resonance down from the sky, coupled with the ground wave that will be generated from the HARP transmitters located in Alaska on the opposite side of the world arc.
unidentified		It's within four degrees of being exactly 180 from Giza.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		And Giza is at 30 north.
		HARP is at 60 north when you do the conversion between geographic and geodetic coordinates.
		These are all hyperdimensional numbers if you're using a physics that most people don't even know exists to look for important things underground.
		Now here's another data point you need to consider.
		Remember the French series of nuclear tests the last few weeks that no one could figure out why the French were testing nuclear triggers when all the enemies have gone away?
		Of course.
unidentified		You know, who are they going to bomb, you know, use them against?
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The Albanians, you know, the invading Turkish residents, whatever?
		No, in fact, if you look at the atoll in the South Pacific where the French were detonating the nuclear weapons, it is precisely 180 degrees on the opposite side of the world from the Giza Plateau.
		If the Giza Plateau in the Robert Baval and Graham Hancock scenario represents the marker of the last high epoch of civilization circuit 12,000 years ago, then it stands to reason that somewhere under that plateau there's an awful lot of neat stuff.
		And the current folks that are sitting on that neat stuff are the Egyptians.
		Well, maybe our guys want access to what their guys already suspect or have brought up and suspect that it's much deeper than the Egyptians with their own technology could get to.
		You bet.
		So you have a concerted effort to probe with the most sophisticated technology multinationally.
		And then I have to bring in the work of Bruce Cathay.
		Yeah, and that's where a heart comes into picture.
		Where a heart comes in and the French nuclear test, because the way you tweak the spider web of hyperdimensional physics is you pluck the web with nuclear weapons placed at certain strategic latitudes and longitudes.
		And Bruce Cathay was the first to recognize this, although he thought you could only button at a nuclear weapon at those latitudes and longitudes.
		In fact, I think they were using the weapons over the last 30 years to probe this hyperdimensional grid.
		And again, we're not talking about most of the military-industrial complex.
		We're talking about a tiny group within that use the resources of nations and corporations and institutions to fulfill their own ends while ostensibly in service to other objectives.
		All right.
		Richard, hold it there.
		Dr. Begotten, I want to give you an opportunity to give out the number up in Alaska where people can get your materials or contact you.
		Okay, we have two things now.
		We have our first copy of our newsletter, which is a 68-page summary of different sciences, new sciences, and it's $19.95 a year.
		And we also have our book, Angels Don't Play This Harp, The Dances and Tesla Technology, which is $14.95 at $1.50 postage.
		And that can be obtained by calling 907-249-9111.
		Okay, we've got to be careful with that number.
unidentified		It's very close to an emergency number up there.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		907-249-9111.
		Richard Hogland's fax number is 201-271-1703.
		And we're looking for information, of course, but we're also looking for a volunteer to put together the materials Richard has to be uploaded to the World Wide Web.
		And do you have a link to our webpage, Doctor?
		Not yet, but we would sure like to do that.
		I've got a website that's got quite a bit of things on it beyond heart.
		And I can give that at www.throne, thronne.com.
		And you can find that through any of our search engines.
		And it's got heart material, wet materials, and it's continually being added to it as well.
		What would both of you say?
		The American, you know, the average guy sitting out there going, man, I get about half of this, you know.
		Oh, but it's one heck of a half.
		I know, I know.
		My question to you both is, what should the American people do?
		I mean, if this is not what it's supposed to be, and it's something either dark, sinister, a weapon, or somebody trying to mess about and save the world or ruin the world or whatever it is, if it's not what it appears to be, and you both agree on that, what should the American people do?
		It's so simple.
		It goes back to the Constitution.
		Remember, this nation was founded on the rather radical idea that ordinary people are smart enough and bright enough to have control of their own destiny.
		That a handful of people hiding in a room somewhere, either wanting knowledge for their own use, their own survival, their own power, their own monetary gain, is not the way a society should be run.
		We tried that for thousands of years, and it did not work.
		The way this society got rich and made people realize their dreams beyond their wildest expectations is by vesting power in ordinary folks who turn out to be extraordinary when you give them the opportunity.
		That opportunity has been taken away and taken away and taken away piece by piece by piece by piece under the guise of this thing called national security.
		And it's incredibly ironic to me that when all the enemies are gone, when the Cold War is over, when the evil empire piece by piece by piece by piece under the guise of this thing called national security.
		And it's incredibly ironic to me that when all the enemies are gone, when the Cold War is over, when the evil empire has been defeated, that some of the most clandestine and monstrous and strange experiments harnessing the most gargantuan of energies with folks playing God, you know, Who's happening?
		Who should know this?
		Who should we bitch to?
		That's the question.
		We have an election coming up.
		I wish Pat Buchanan would be addressing the real issues of this or one of the other candidates who claims to be a populist.
		This is where the populism thing should really start.
		All those billions and billions and billions, $50 billion a year that's being picked from your pocket and mine, and no one has any accountability.
		All right, Dr. Bigich.
unidentified		You know, I think that it is, you know, I don't disagree.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		You know, we believe the same basic principles of individuals are where the power vets and trigrets.
		And what we see in this project and the whole chain of events that we lay out in our work is that the military, the government has run away with the farm and have left us with a fragment, a crown of sense of control that most people have integrated into apathy, feeling like you're overwhelmed.
		And on this project, we've seen the activation of a lot of people coming together from very, very different backgrounds, which is a good sign people are getting involved.
		We've asked people to contact their congressional delegations and ask for public hearings on this issue as well as the whole issue of non-lethal weapons.
		We've asked for people to contact our governor here in Alaska and Juneau, Tony Knowles, ask for open hearings on a state basis because we do have a 10th Amendment that transfers and gives states certain rights.
		We think that monitoring this project independent of the federal government is an important part of taking a little bit more control of our own destiny here.
		But it is election year.
		It is time to engage, make this an election issue in every part of the country.
		National security is the wall behind which too much is hidden, and the American people are becoming the victims.
		And maybe that evil empire is extended to our own government in many respects.
		Well, you do.
		The two of you do have a big area of agreement.
		And we're out of time.
		I want to thank you both.
		I'm going to give both your numbers out on the air again after the top of the hour.
		I know it's late in New York.
		Richard, go to sleep.
		We'll talk to you on the 15th.
		And Dr. Begich, I want to thank you for on short notice coming on the air with us.
		Always happy to be with you.
		Okay.
		Good night, Dr. Begich.
		Good night, Richard.
		Good night, Art.
		Good night.
		There you go, folks.
		Richard Hoagland in New York.
		Dr. Nick Begich in Alaska.
unidentified		It was about HARP, what HARP is.
unidentified		Maybe more about what HARP isn't.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		We'll stay on top of this for you.
art bell ▲ ● ▼		The shuttle's coming down, we understand, in the morning.

▲