Art Bell - 19960201_Art-Bell-SIT-Open-Lines-Anything-Goes
Aired: 1996-02-01
Duration: 02:40:24


=== Art Bell Somewhere in Time (05:26) ===

[00:00:15]  Welcome to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:00:19]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[00:00:24]  From the high desert in the great American Southwest, where finally the rain has stopped falling and the skies are clearing as they should in the desert.
[00:00:34]  I bid you a great big good evening or good morning as the case may be across all these time zones from Hawaii and Tahiti in the west, east to the Caribbean and the U.S. Virgin Islands, south into South America, north into Santa Country.
[00:00:49]  This is Coast to Coast A.M., and I'm Art Bell.
[00:00:54]  And let me give you sort of a little preview of what's upcoming.
[00:00:58]  This morning, nothing but open lines all the way.
[00:01:02]  Whatever you want to do.
[00:01:03]  Tomorrow night, there are a number of possibilities.
[00:01:10]  One possibility is that we may get the software and begin to make it available for download for the video telephone.
[00:01:19]  Maybe.
[00:01:20]  That's a maybe.
[00:01:22]  Because you never know about last-minute glitches and hitches, but we're that close.
[00:01:28]  Maybe tomorrow night.
[00:01:30]  That's one item.
[00:01:32]  Another item is I'm going to have Krishana Duran at the beginning of the program tomorrow night.
[00:01:40]  And she is going to talk about the Mayan calendar and how she interprets the Mayan calendar.
[00:01:47]  We're going to explore this together.
[00:01:48]  I don't know a lot about it myself.
[00:01:50]  And the future of America and the world.
[00:01:55]  And that should be very, very interesting.
[00:01:58]  Then a little later in the show, I think I might have talked my mom into coming on.
[00:02:06]  Lots of taxes encouraging her to do so.
[00:02:09]  And this is kind of one of those once-in-a-lifetime deals.
[00:02:12]  I don't think we've seen each other now.
[00:02:14]  And of course, we've been visiting like crazy in 12 or 15 years.
[00:02:18]  That's a long time.
[00:02:20]  And so, you know, we're doing a lot of catching up.
[00:02:25]  And it could be kind of fun to have her on the air.
[00:02:27]  And if you guys embarrass me, I'm going to be taking names.
[00:02:31]  I'll kill you.
[00:02:34]  So you be careful what you ask.
[00:02:36]  You hear me?
[00:02:38]  Now, what have we got going on news-wise?
[00:02:41]  Well, kind of a mishmash.
[00:02:43]  Congress has passed the telecommunications bill, ooh, so feared across the internet.
[00:02:50]  President Clinton is hailing congressional passage of major telecommunications legislation.
[00:02:55]  House and Senate overwhelmingly approved the measure on Thursday.
[00:02:59]  Clinton calls the bill critical to building the information superhighway.
[00:03:03]  The measure, which is being praised by industry groups, but blasted by consumer groups and civil libertarians, will deregulate most cable TV rates in about three years, removes 62-year-old legal barriers, and encourages the telephone, cable, and broadcast industries to get into each other's businesses.
[00:03:26]  I favor it.
[00:03:28]  Now, I get a lot of messages from people who say, ah, but it regulates the internet.
[00:03:34]  Well, it regulates, for example, transmission of obscene materials to people under 18 years of age, intentional transmission.
[00:03:46]  So what?
[00:03:47]  I'm not that much of a civil libertarian.
[00:03:50]  As far as I'm concerned, you know, pornography or whatever ought not be sent to kids.
[00:03:57]  Is that the end of free speech in America?
[00:04:00]  I think not.
[00:04:03]  So I favor it.
[00:04:04]  And generally, look, telecommunications is exploding.
[00:04:10]  And to allow competition with the telephone, cable, and broadcast industries can do nothing ultimately but good.
[00:04:19]  We will have more diversity, more delivery, cheaper prices.
[00:04:25]  Yes, in the short term, maybe the cable companies will hike their rates, try and make up for some of the cuts they took.
[00:04:31]  But ultimately, my view still holds that in America, competition produces lower prices.
[00:04:39]  And so I think in the end, it'll be good for you.
[00:04:42]  It'll be good for me.
[00:04:44]  It'll be good for all of us.
[00:04:45]  So I do favor it.
[00:04:49]  And I know there's going to be some argument with that.
[00:04:51]  And there are people out there, many of them on the Internet, sort of anarchists who think that anything at all should go.
[00:05:00]  Well, I'll tell you something.
[00:05:01]  I don't feel that way.
[00:05:03]  As a matter of fact, if it was up to me, people who would write messages on the Internet, slanderous, libelous kind of stuff on the Internet, ought to be required to sign their name to it.
[00:05:18]  Just as you would if you wrote a letter to the newspaper, they'd print it, but they'd require you to sign it.

=== Winter's Political Storm (05:48) ===

[00:05:27]  If you wrote an article for the newspaper, if you go on television, if you're broke hawk, you say something.
[00:05:33]  NBC stands to be sued if they have libeled or slandered somebody.
[00:05:40]  All the other networks.
[00:05:44]  You write a book and slander somebody and get sued.
[00:05:49]  You go on broadcast and libel somebody and you can get sued.
[00:05:54]  So, you know, I don't think the internet and the information superhighway should be stunted, but I also don't think that it should be a land of anarchy where anybody can say anything about anybody they want without attribution.
[00:06:11]  Now the cold.
[00:06:15]  Now, I'm getting faxes from people who say, hey, it's wintertime.
[00:06:22]  What are you guys talking about, all this weather talk?
[00:06:25]  Well, it's leading a lot of the newscasts around the country because baby, it's cold out there.
[00:06:32]  A snowstorm taking aim at the East Coast now.
[00:06:36]  Forecasters warn, bitter cold temperatures across the north are about to get even colder with freezing weather likely as far south as get this folks, Mexico and Florida.
[00:06:50]  It was 41 degrees below zero Thursday at International Falls, Minnesota.
[00:06:57]  Forecasters expect the town's 28-year-old record for the lowest temperature, 46 below zero, to be shattered on Friday, literally shattered.
[00:07:09]  Now, how cold is it?
[00:07:12]  I will ask you.
[00:07:14]  We are having hotter summers, bigger storms, bigger snowstorms, bigger blizzards, bigger cold waves.
[00:07:25]  We are having weather that rivals the extreme of our politics.
[00:07:31]  Now, do you suppose there might be something to that?
[00:07:34]  The more extreme politics gets, the more weather becomes extreme.
[00:07:40]  That's a reach, I know, but I thought I'd try.
[00:07:43]  Train derailed, carrying hazardous go.
[00:07:47]  You ever notice, inevitably, Murphy's law, any train that derails has hazardous stuff on it, chemicals.
[00:07:55]  It was about 50 miles east of L.A.
[00:07:59]  The fire sent up a huge toxic cloud.
[00:08:02]  People were evacuated.
[00:08:04]  People were hurt.
[00:08:07]  And I guess that's going to happen.
[00:08:10]  Speaking of people hurt, two U.S. soldiers have been injured by a landmine explosion in Bosnia.
[00:08:17]  Predictable.
[00:08:17]  Here it comes.
[00:08:19]  Pentagon says the two are in stable condition now at a military hospital.
[00:08:23]  One of the soldiers suffered injuries to his right foot.
[00:08:27]  The other hurt by shrapnel.
[00:08:31]  No identification of the soldiers yet.
[00:08:33]  It's going to be a long, hard year if it is a year, ha ha ha, in Bosnia.
[00:08:42]  Big breaking news about AIDS.
[00:08:46]  And I always take this with a bit of caution because there have been so many times, but this does seem to be substantial.
[00:08:54]  NBC did an in-depth report on it last night.
[00:08:59]  A new class of drugs are working called protein inhibitors.
[00:09:06]  They will join six approved drugs used for AIDS now, sharply reducing the level of the virus in the body.
[00:09:14]  Now, this may be a breakthrough, and it may be that this group, along with what else they're using, will be able to allow people with AIDS to live relatively normal lives.
[00:09:29]  AIDS hotlines are going nuts.
[00:09:32]  FDA expects rapid approval.
[00:09:35]  Now, of course, they don't know about all the side effects because they have not been able to test very long, but they're not going to hold it back.
[00:09:42]  They're going to let it go.
[00:09:44]  And we shall see.
[00:09:46]  But that is certainly good news, and I guess everybody wants to know about it.
[00:09:52]  A million Americans infected with the virus.
[00:09:58]  The commander of U.S. naval, make that NATO forces, I guess some naval in Bosnia, is promising swift retaliation against snipers in Sarajevo.
[00:10:11]  Says anyone who takes shots at any NATO peacekeeping troops had better be fast and be clad in bulletproof stuff because we will attack without warning.
[00:10:22]  And I keep wondering, you know, there are three million landmines in Bosnia, and as our American soldiers lose feet and legs as a result of them, who are we going to attack?
[00:10:35]  Clinton and the French President Jacques Chirock are talking.
[00:10:42]  They're meeting in Washington, agreeing on the future of NATO and on efforts to achieve a total nuclear test ban.
[00:10:52]  Yeah, we ought to be talking to the French about that, huh?
[00:10:55]  Congress has passed a measure to ensure social security checks to go out to $43 million so you don't have to worry by March 1st.

=== Steve Forbes Surges (03:04) ===

[00:11:04]  But the bill temporarily increases the debt limit and was very narrowly tailored, does not remove the threat of a U.S. default on March 1st.
[00:11:14]  Can you imagine that if we default?
[00:11:17]  That'd shake up the whole world were we to default.
[00:11:22]  The big bombshell news is Bob Dole is in big trouble.
[00:11:31]  Now this was, to me, predictable.
[00:11:33]  I am not surprised.
[00:11:34]  There is a new poll in New Hampshire.
[00:11:37]  You're not going to believe this, showing Steve Forbes, Steve Forbes is nine points ahead of Bob Dole in New Hampshire and rapidly closing the gap in Iowa.
[00:11:53]  Steve Forbes may be a runaway.
[00:11:58]  Slowly, we're finding out more and more about him, and the more I hear, the more I like.
[00:12:05]  Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole dismisses the significance of a new poll, says his rival, Forbes, has taken a solid lead in the key primary state of New Hampshire.
[00:12:14]  He says, we're not going to worry about polls.
[00:12:16]  We're just going to win the race.
[00:12:18]  Dole told reporters after a campaign appearance in Nashua, bad news for him.
[00:12:24]  And I, you know, I feel sorry for Bob Dole.
[00:12:32]  I actually feel sorry for Bob Dole because he's a good man.
[00:12:37]  He's just not the right man.
[00:12:40]  And he's going to be denied, I believe, the nomination.
[00:12:46]  And it's because of all the things I've been telling you about Bob Dole.
[00:12:54]  My perception apparently is not much different than a lot of other Republicans out there, and that is that he can't beat the president.
[00:13:01]  And you just don't give somebody the nomination sort of as a rite of passage, you know, because Bob Dole has been there so long, because he has earned it, because he's been the minority, and then the majority leader in the Senate.
[00:13:15]  It's not supposed to be automatic.
[00:13:19]  It's not supposed to be, you know, we don't have, it's not a kingdom we've got here.
[00:13:24]  There is not a succession to the throne.
[00:13:28]  And up until Forbes came along, it was kind of like that's what we were going to have, a succession to the throne.
[00:13:37]  Or the seat next to the throne, I don't know.

=== Government Takeover Risk (02:52) ===

[00:14:01]  Art, regarding the, this is a fax now, we're off into fax country here.
[00:14:06]  Regarding the Casabaum-Kennedy health care bill and its provision to force insurers to accept pre-existing conditions, could this be an attempt at driving insurers out of the health insurance biz so the government can take over our health care industry?
[00:14:21]  Get ready, America.
[00:14:26]  I think we're getting ready for another government takeover of one-seventh of the nation's economy, God help us, Julie from Brighton, Colorado.
[00:14:34]  Now, this new group of drugs that will keep AIDS patients alive for a long time, or maybe even something approaching a normal lifetime, well, that's great news.
[00:14:48]  But they are going to cost a fortune for the lifetimes now extended of the people with AIDS.
[00:14:58]  And if you force insurance companies to accept people who go down and get a test and suddenly find out they've got AIDS, and then they're going to run out and they're going to get their insurance, and they cannot be denied, well, who's going to pay for all of that?
[00:15:24]  The other people who have decided to keep their insurance?
[00:15:28]  Why would they keep their insurance, I ask?
[00:15:31]  After all, they get sick, they can go down and just, you know, the company has to accept them.
[00:15:39]  Even with a high premium rate, lifetime AIDS patients, you know, you're talking millions, perhaps.
[00:15:49]  Pretty good deal, huh?
[00:15:51]  Sounds like socialized medicine to me.
[00:15:56]  Again, on the weather, Art from Wisconsin, we're getting dangerous wind-chill situations tonight at the Bondulock airport.
[00:16:05]  It's currently hovering at about minus 54 to 56 degrees with the wind factored in.
[00:16:15]  Minus 50.
[00:16:16]  Well, that's life endangering.
[00:16:21]  So, and my facts are obtained three frost-bitten fingers just trying to put gas in my truck.

=== Weird Weather Reports (04:53) ===

[00:16:33]  That's cold.
[00:16:37]  Now, check this out for weird weather.
[00:16:39]  All right.
[00:16:40]  This is from Martin in Albuquerque.
[00:16:43]  Says that AP ran a story saying a severe storm over northern Japan, get this, dumped more than 22 inches of snow by Thursday evening, and another 40 inches could fall before all ends.
[00:17:02]  Some isolated mountain areas will get twice that much.
[00:17:07]  That's nearly never happened.
[00:17:10]  Most airports in northern Honshu are now closed.
[00:17:17]  So, as last night, I will ask, how many of you think some little guy is sitting behind a curtain somewhere pulling levers, maybe up in Alaska, the Harp Project, whatever else?
[00:17:27]  Oh, I heard from Dr. Nick Begich, who would like to come back on the program on the HARP Project.
[00:17:35]  And he may be coming down to visit me in a couple of weeks from Alaska.
[00:17:41]  And I'll be telling you more about that.
[00:17:45]  So lots going on.
[00:17:47]  And in a moment, we will take the plunge, open the lines, and we will talk about anything you want to talk about.
[00:17:54]  Tis up to you.
[00:17:56]  The night is yours.
[00:17:58]  The calls unscreened.
[00:18:01]  The topic matter unexpected.
[00:18:04]  The show ranging from the funny to the very frightening to the sometimes ridiculous, blind.
[00:18:15]  I never know what it's going to be and don't want to.
[00:18:18]  I'm Art Bell, and when we come back, it's open line talk radio all night long.
[00:18:25]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:18:27]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:18:33]  You're listening to Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
[00:18:54]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[00:18:59]  Just this one item, and then we're off into talk radio land.
[00:19:03]  Dear Art, strange happenings here in the Midwest.
[00:19:07]  In a small town in Franklin County, south of St. Louis, an entire class of 24 third graders contracted a mystery rash this morning.
[00:19:18]  All were taken to a hospital, but required no special care because the hive-like rash quickly disappeared on its own.
[00:19:25]  Doctors ruled out chemicals, toxins, furnace malfunction, dust, mold, food reaction.
[00:19:32]  Their best guess, something airborne that went through that one room and then dissipated.
[00:19:39]  No other room involved.
[00:19:41]  The school remains open.
[00:19:43]  The cause of the rash eludes them.
[00:19:47]  So These weird things keep popping up.
[00:19:52]  I'm not surprised, frankly.
[00:19:55]  That's, by the way, from Liberal Sioux in the state of Illinois.
[00:19:59]  All right, here's my version: quick version of the telephone numbers.
[00:20:03]  We don't screen calls, therefore, let it ring until it's answered.
[00:20:08]  If you get disconnected after ringing for a while, pick it up and ring again until you get through.
[00:20:13]  Persistence will pay.
[00:20:15]  If you're a first-time caller to the program, no matter where you are, area code 702-727-1222.
[00:20:28]  The wildcard direct aisle lines, area code 702-727-1295.
[00:20:36]  Toll-free, anywhere west of the Rockies.
[00:20:40]  1-800-618-8255.
[00:20:44]  If you're east of the Rockies, where it's really cold and going about to get colder, what do you guys think?
[00:20:54]  I think that if Pungstatani Phil comes out, is it tomorrow he's supposed to come out?
[00:20:59]  If he's smart, he'll stay many feet down in the ground and won't come out at all if he was smart.

=== East of the Rockies (03:09) ===

[00:21:06]  East of the Rockies, back there in cold country, 1-800-825-5033.
[00:21:13]  That's 1-800-825-5033.
[00:21:17]  Here we go.
[00:21:18]  East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
[00:21:21]  Good morning.
[00:21:22]  Hi, Art.
[00:21:22]  How are you doing this morning?
[00:21:23]  All right.
[00:21:24]  Where are you?
[00:21:24]  I'm in Detroit, and boy, is it freezing cold.
[00:21:27]  How cold is it, sir?
[00:21:29]  Zero, they're saying around three degrees.
[00:21:32]  Really?
[00:21:32]  Any wind?
[00:21:33]  No, we don't have no wind.
[00:21:34]  I just popped my head out a little earlier.
[00:21:36]  I'm at work, and there was not much wind, so I'm not sure of the wind chill factor.
[00:21:39]  Well, that's good.
[00:21:40]  I'll tell you: when you get below zero and then you get wind, then it gets dangerous.
[00:21:45]  Oh, but it's just so scary.
[00:21:47]  Oh, you go outside, you just can't do nothing.
[00:21:49]  The dog doesn't want to go out, no, nothing.
[00:21:51]  Not even the dog, huh?
[00:21:52]  Your show has so much reality, it's almost scary.
[00:21:56]  Well, sometimes it scares me.
[00:21:58]  You know, the HARP system.
[00:22:00]  Why do we do things that we just don't know what can do to us?
[00:22:03]  I don't know.
[00:22:04]  Because we're adventuresome, sometimes really stupid.
[00:22:08]  It's more stupid than adventuresome.
[00:22:10]  Well, sometimes, many times now, more and more actually lately, science is getting out ahead of our ability to manage it.
[00:22:18]  Right.
[00:22:18]  Right.
[00:22:19]  You know, they're introducing new things.
[00:22:21]  They're killing rabbits with designer viruses.
[00:22:24]  And one of these days, we're going to design ourselves a web we can't get out of.
[00:22:28]  That's what's going to happen.
[00:22:30]  If you could say what it was, what do you think it would be?
[00:22:33]  What do you think is going to be our demise?
[00:22:36]  Well, that's a good question.
[00:22:37]  What will be our demise?
[00:22:41]  My grandmother saw spacewalks.
[00:22:42]  She saw war.
[00:22:43]  She saw poverty.
[00:22:44]  She saw the depression.
[00:22:47]  She saw so much.
[00:22:48]  I haven't seen a fraction of what she saw.
[00:22:51]  But when I think of I'm only 30, what am I going to see in my next 30 years?
[00:22:55]  It's scary.
[00:22:56]  The digital city.
[00:22:57]  Let me turn it around on you.
[00:22:59]  I will think about your question.
[00:23:01]  If we are to have a demise shortly, what do you think it will be?
[00:23:05]  I think it's going to be the chemical warfare deal that you keep talking about.
[00:23:09]  The disease problem, giving AIDS to the monkeys, to the, what were you calling?
[00:23:14]  The chimpanzees now.
[00:23:16]  Yes.
[00:23:16]  And now, you know, what if they were going to do something that we just can't get out of?
[00:23:21]  All right.
[00:23:21]  Thank you very much for the call.
[00:23:22]  Anybody else want to tackle that one?
[00:23:25]  Then you could just say there will be no demise.
[00:23:28]  We will go on.
[00:23:29]  We've been going on.
[00:23:31]  We will continue.
[00:23:32]  Plagues will come and go, even taking at times substantial portions of the population.
[00:23:39]  But somehow, man will continue.
[00:23:42]  The planet will keep spinning.
[00:23:44]  Life will go on.
[00:23:46]  Or on the other side of the coin, a big comet may plow into the earth, extinguishing all life as we know it.
[00:23:55]  We may design a virus that will hop species and put us out with a wimp.

=== Cool Station Promo (13:50) ===

[00:24:01]  It's a wimper.
[00:24:03]  I don't know.
[00:24:05]  I do not foretell the future, but it is kind of fun to talk about.
[00:24:09]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[00:24:11]  Hi.
[00:24:11]  Hi, how you doing?
[00:24:12]  Okay, where are you?
[00:24:13]  I'm in Springfield, Illinois.
[00:24:15]  Yes, sir.
[00:24:15]  Frigid Jimmy, and I'm the guy that called the other night on Fast Blast and asked for some Stewie Dan bumper music, by the way.
[00:24:21]  Oh, that's right.
[00:24:22]  And I'm looking into that.
[00:24:24]  Cool.
[00:24:25]  Okay. I had.
[00:24:32]  Oh, isn't it?
[00:24:33]  I love it.
[00:24:34]  You know, not enough people understand it.
[00:24:36]  I advertise it and I try and tell them what it is, but they don't quite get it.
[00:24:41]  You know, a lot of people don't get it.
[00:24:42]  It is an FM transmitter, and you can put anything into it.
[00:24:46]  I mean, you can make it into your own little radio station.
[00:24:49]  What are you doing with yours?
[00:24:50]  What I do basically is, for example, you know, I have to admit, I sound like a total geek saying this, but the first night I got it, a bunch of my friends came over and we played radio.
[00:25:03]  Find a bunch of old records and C Ds.
[00:25:05]  No, that's cool.
[00:25:05]  That's one of the things to get it for.
[00:25:09]  In my case, I hook it up to my audio output here on the board.
[00:25:12]  So my mother, in this case, in her bedroom, my wife in hers, can listen to the program throughout the house.
[00:25:19]  But there's a million uses.
[00:25:20]  For example, people in metal buildings, you know, they can't receive AM radio.
[00:25:25]  It gets blocked up on the metal.
[00:25:26]  So what you do is you go over to a window and you hook up an AM radio to the FX wave and it transmits it throughout the metal building on beautiful FM.
[00:25:37]  Well, sometimes what I do too is I've got a high-fidelity VCR and I make big long six-hour music tapes.
[00:25:45]  Right.
[00:25:45]  And what I do is like if I'm outside, which isn't too much with the wind show and everything right now, but we're upstairs away from my studio, I just batch it in there and I've got perfect the music that I pick on my radio.
[00:25:58]  It's great.
[00:25:59]  No, I know.
[00:26:00]  It's the coolest.
[00:26:00]  I know we advertise cool products.
[00:26:03]  That's no lie and they work.
[00:26:04]  Yeah.
[00:26:05]  And C-Crane, they're very courteous.
[00:26:07]  Yes, they are.
[00:26:09]  My question sort of relates to that a little bit later than our imminent demise, I suppose.
[00:26:13]  But I do radio, sort of, on a part-time basis.
[00:26:19]  Yeah, me too.
[00:26:21]  In a nutshell, what it is, it's a little show on a little 3,000-watt small-town FM station once a week for three hours.
[00:26:31]  What do you do?
[00:26:31]  What kind of show?
[00:26:32]  Well, simply shoot.
[00:26:38]  It could be anything at any time.
[00:26:40]  Oh.
[00:26:40]  It's called Groove Time.
[00:26:42]  It's Building.
[00:26:42]  Oh, that's my kind of show.
[00:26:44]  The Eclectic Music Party.
[00:26:45]  Oh, that's my kind of show.
[00:26:46]  You know, it's rock, it's jazz.
[00:26:48]  Yeah, cool.
[00:26:48]  It's called old-time country.
[00:26:50]  That's good.
[00:26:51]  Well, the thing is, I've been doing it for four years with some friends of mine, and I don't know a whole lot about the Internet.
[00:26:58]  And I kind of sense that you do.
[00:27:01]  Well, I'm not an expert, but I'm learning more and more and more.
[00:27:05]  I'm getting better all the time.
[00:27:07]  I'll try to answer something for you, Felix.
[00:27:09]  Okay, well, it relates to retrieving audio via like a sound blaster card or something.
[00:27:14]  Yes.
[00:27:15]  Well, there's an Internet provider in my area who wants to put us on.
[00:27:20]  Oh, go for it.
[00:27:22]  Do you think so?
[00:27:23]  Oh, yeah.
[00:27:23]  Do you really think it would work?
[00:27:24]  Yeah, if it's financially feasible for you.
[00:27:27]  Oh, yes, of course.
[00:27:28]  That would mean that you could broadcast on the internet.
[00:27:31]  I'm going to be doing it next month, starting middle of next month, will be full-time stream audio on the internet.
[00:27:38]  And it would mean that somebody could sit in Italy or the North Pole or the tip of South America and with a computer and a local access number of some sort, listen to my show.
[00:27:51]  Well, same for you.
[00:27:52]  How good is the audio?
[00:27:53]  Do you know?
[00:27:55]  It is approaching the quality, I would say, of AM audio.
[00:28:02]  Okay.
[00:28:03]  Okay?
[00:28:03]  It's close to AM.
[00:28:05]  Okay.
[00:28:07]  The idea is.
[00:28:09]  Now, I'm not as sure that it is ready for music yet.
[00:28:15]  Now that I think about it, I see the nature of your question.
[00:28:19]  It's getting better all the time.
[00:28:21]  I think for voice quality, it's quite sufficient.
[00:28:25]  But for music, it's marginal.
[00:28:28]  It's got a little bit of a warbly sound yet to it.
[00:28:32]  So there you are.
[00:28:34]  I would love it if it would get there because what we do is so different from most everything that's on the radio.
[00:28:39]  And maybe, you know, if we just had even just a few people in each different locale, you know, if you're talking worldwide, eventually you can accumulate quite an audience.
[00:28:48]  And the challenge of that is just, oh, man.
[00:28:51]  Oh, you're absolutely right.
[00:28:52]  Listen, I'm short on time.
[00:28:53]  You said you had something on our demise.
[00:28:56]  No, I said this was something separate from our demise.
[00:28:58]  Demise.
[00:28:59]  All right, separate from.
[00:28:59]  That's good.
[00:29:00]  Thank you.
[00:29:01]  All right, from the state of Illinois.
[00:29:03]  Yes, the Internet.
[00:29:05]  I really am a fan of this telecommunications bill.
[00:29:12]  It's going to set everything loose.
[00:29:14]  It's deregulation.
[00:29:16]  It's a good idea.
[00:29:18]  It's going to create competition.
[00:29:20]  In the short run, maybe cable rates are going to go up a little bit, so what?
[00:29:25]  I'm beginning to wonder how long the cable companies, TV stations, even radio is going to be around with direct satellite communication.
[00:29:38]  The internet, the web, all of these things.
[00:29:42]  My show, my program, for as long as it remains popular, will follow whatever medium dispenses it or distributes it.
[00:29:51]  Doesn't matter.
[00:29:52]  Satellite, internet will be there.
[00:29:56]  You know, if there is an audience and there are ratings and people want it, the distribution system for it really does not matter.
[00:30:05]  So I'm really a fan of all this.
[00:30:07]  I'm looking forward to it.
[00:30:08]  I really enjoy the information age.
[00:30:11]  I was very angry at my computer earlier today.
[00:30:14]  It did something wrong, which is probably a lie.
[00:30:18]  It probably didn't do anything at all.
[00:30:20]  I did it.
[00:30:21]  You know, I should not blame a machine that simply responds to human error.
[00:30:28]  First time caller align, you're on the air.
[00:30:30]  Hello.
[00:30:30]  Hi, Art.
[00:30:31]  This is Joe.
[00:30:32]  I'm calling from Evanston, Illinois.
[00:30:34]  Hi, Joe.
[00:30:35]  Yeah, well, I just had a funny story I wanted to let you know about.
[00:30:40]  I'm originally from Milwaukee, and I'm down here at school at Northwestern, and I just had a funny story about a football sports cast that I don't think got much national attention, but it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen on live TV.
[00:30:54]  What was it?
[00:30:56]  Well, the local sports team was down in Dallas, and they were doing coverage of the Green Bay Packers from Texas Stadium, and they had kind of a dual split-screen broadcast of the people down in Texas Stadium and the anchors back in Milwaukee.
[00:31:14]  And there was this local sports girl, and I'm not going to say any names or anything.
[00:31:21]  Thank you.
[00:31:22]  But they were commenting on Mike Holmgren writing a Harley-Davidson to the workout.
[00:31:31]  And she came out and she said.
[00:31:35]  Now, I'm going to be able to air this, right?
[00:31:37]  Yes.
[00:31:37]  Oh, no, this is this is no, it's not a problem.
[00:31:41]  She came out and said it was nice to see a successful motorcade in Dallas for a change.
[00:31:48]  And she honestly said it, and I don't know if she had been thinking it up for a while or if it was just like a sprung thing that she thought would be funny, but it was really hilarious.
[00:31:58]  I'll try and get a copy of the tape.
[00:32:01]  Well, there are hilarious things that occur on live radio and television.
[00:32:07]  And that's why I like this program.
[00:32:09]  Yeah.
[00:32:10]  Because it's live.
[00:32:11]  You know, it's not a tape repeat, and it's not screened.
[00:32:16]  And so you never quite know what to expect.
[00:32:18]  Now, every now and then, that results in absolute unmitigated disaster.
[00:32:24]  But that, too, is entertaining in its own perverted way.
[00:32:27]  Yeah.
[00:32:28]  Well, yeah, and the other thing I'll just leave it up to.
[00:32:31]  I was wondering if you saw the nightline on Hillary Clinton the other night.
[00:32:35]  No, nightline airs here, unfortunately, after I go on the air.
[00:32:40]  Oh, okay.
[00:32:41]  So I always get to miss it.
[00:32:43]  Thank you very much for the call.
[00:32:45]  And I appreciate it.
[00:32:49]  I understand it portrayed Hillary as quite the shrew.
[00:32:57]  Would that be accurate?
[00:32:59]  I didn't see it, so I don't know.
[00:33:01]  I got a bunch of faxes about it, though.
[00:33:04]  What do you think Hillary's like in private with Bill?
[00:33:08]  You think she's a wild one?
[00:33:11]  Think she pushes him around?
[00:33:12]  I suspect so.
[00:33:14]  I mean, you can sort of look at her face and you can see it in there.
[00:33:17]  It's kind of like, you're going to do exactly what I tell you to do or else.
[00:33:23]  And then you look at Bill Clinton and you look at his face and it's kind of like, yep, I'm going to do exactly what she says.
[00:33:31]  But, I mean, I could be all wrong.
[00:33:52]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[00:33:54]  Hi.
[00:33:54]  Oh, hello.
[00:33:55]  This is Catherine.
[00:33:55]  I'm from Metae, Louisiana.
[00:33:57]  Metaire, Louisiana.
[00:33:59]  I listened to W-O-D-T.
[00:34:01]  W-O-D-T.
[00:34:01]  Hoodet?
[00:34:02]  Houdad station.
[00:34:03]  Yes, yes, indeed.
[00:34:04]  Art Bell.
[00:34:06]  Yes.
[00:34:06]  Yes, you were talking about Hillary Clinton?
[00:34:10]  A little bit, yes.
[00:34:10]  What do you think?
[00:34:11]  I don't think she's all that bad.
[00:34:12]  You don't?
[00:34:13]  No, I don't think she's a real soft little sort of.
[00:34:17]  Pussycat.
[00:34:18]  Pussycat?
[00:34:20]  Think so?
[00:34:20]  You know, I had a strange thing happen to me today.
[00:34:23]  I went to the doctor.
[00:34:24]  Just before you go on with that, sir.
[00:34:26]  Sir.
[00:34:27]  Not all pussycats are soft.
[00:34:28]  I've got a 17-pounder here who could shred you like yesterday's newspaper.
[00:34:33]  I believe you because I have a friend that has a cat like that, and I sat on my friend's bed, and the cat nearly tore me to bits.
[00:34:41]  There you are.
[00:34:42]  So not all cats are general.
[00:34:44]  Anyway, you were going to say something else.
[00:34:47]  Yes, I had something very strange happen to me today.
[00:34:51]  I went to the doctor for an ear infection, and he wanted to give me a tetanus shot and a diphtheria shot.
[00:34:58]  Would somebody drive a nail in your ear?
[00:35:01]  Not at all.
[00:35:02]  That's why I couldn't figure it out.
[00:35:04]  And I was so angry because it frightened me.
[00:35:08]  You know, I felt intimidated.
[00:35:10]  I said, you know, I'm not really young.
[00:35:13]  I'm a senior, you know.
[00:35:14]  And I said, why does he want to give me these shots?
[00:35:19]  I was afraid I'd be dead in three days.
[00:35:21]  I don't know why.
[00:35:22]  A terrible fear came over me.
[00:35:23]  I said.
[00:35:24]  And that was, excuse me, you went to the doctor yesterday?
[00:35:27]  Today.
[00:35:28]  Today?
[00:35:29]  Yes.
[00:35:29]  Oh, well, you've got two more days then.
[00:35:31]  No, I didn't take it.
[00:35:32]  The nurse came with the shot, and I said, I absolutely refuse.
[00:35:36]  He said, you know what?
[00:35:38]  I said, you know what?
[00:35:39]  You can do that.
[00:35:40]  You can do that.
[00:35:41]  I'll tell you something.
[00:35:41]  I've got a bad back.
[00:35:43]  I used to go to the hospital a lot for my back.
[00:35:46]  And every time you go to the hospital, just like clockwork, they send you in for an x-ray.
[00:35:53]  Well, I got sick of it.
[00:35:54]  And finally, I said to one doctor one time, excuse me, doctor.
[00:35:59]  You know, he was writing up the x-ray order.
[00:36:02]  I said, listen, I've had a lot of x-rays.
[00:36:04]  I'm beginning to be concerned.
[00:36:06]  I really don't think I want to get x-rayed again.
[00:36:09]  And he stopped cold.
[00:36:10]  And he looked at me and he said, you know, you're right.
[00:36:15]  I said, I am.
[00:36:17]  He said, yeah, we don't really need to do this and canceled it.
[00:36:20]  Yeah, we have a right to refuse, you know, and I refused today.
[00:36:24]  I definitely did not want that shot because I don't feel that my day and age I need a tetanus shot because I was afraid it would give me a tetanus.
[00:36:32]  You know, it would give me the log jaw, whatever, diphtheria, whatever they wanted to give me.
[00:36:36]  I just feel, you know, I heard someone on your show one night say that he lived a healthier life, never got a cold or anything because he didn't get it.
[00:36:44]  Well, he may be absolutely right.
[00:36:45]  You may be right to have refused a tetanus shot.
[00:36:48]  On the other hand, in two or three days, you may begin drooling and die a terrible twitching death.
[00:36:54]  But it wouldn't be from that.
[00:36:57]  That's right.
[00:36:58]  It wouldn't be.
[00:36:59]  But anyway, I wanted to go back to the question you asked earlier about how you think that the end is going to come.
[00:37:06]  Now that was not me.
[00:37:07]  That was a caller.
[00:37:08]  It was a caller.
[00:37:09]  That's right.
[00:37:10]  Okay, could I?
[00:37:12]  It is a cool question.
[00:37:13]  Yes.
[00:37:13]  How do you think if the end is going to come, it will come?
[00:37:16]  Yeah, I think it's going to be through chemical warfare because they said rain will fall from the heaven.
[00:37:22]  Fire will fall like rain from the heaven.
[00:37:24]  Fire?
[00:37:25]  Fire will fall like rain from the heavens.
[00:37:28]  From heaven, I see.
[00:37:29]  But the world will not be completely destroyed, as you said.
[00:37:32]  I think that this will be here to time indefinite.

=== Ultimate Welfare Debate (15:21) ===

[00:37:37]  Well, there'll be people left.
[00:37:38]  Trouble is, there'll be the politicians because they'll go deep down into the bunkers.
[00:37:42]  They'll be left, right?
[00:37:43]  Yeah, you have a point there.
[00:37:45]  We can do away with that.
[00:37:46]  The military guys, the military guys, they'll be left deep down in the bunkers, right?
[00:37:51]  We only want good guys, you know, so we can live in peace and harmony.
[00:37:55]  But that is not the way it's going to work.
[00:37:57]  In the Garden of Eden, I hope.
[00:37:59]  All right, sir.
[00:38:00]  I appreciate your call.
[00:38:01]  I enjoy talking to you.
[00:38:02]  And I mean, I tried about six times.
[00:38:04]  I kept getting, you know, I kept getting a ring, but then I would be disconnected.
[00:38:08]  Yes, I know.
[00:38:09]  Phone comes.
[00:38:09]  I was determined tonight because I have mental power, you know.
[00:38:13]  Well, it worked.
[00:38:14]  Positive.
[00:38:15]  It worked tonight.
[00:38:16]  Thank you.
[00:38:16]  All right, thank you.
[00:38:17]  Metaire, Louisiana.
[00:38:20]  Metaire, Louisiana.
[00:38:23]  New Orleans.
[00:38:24]  I would really, and I'm thinking hard about New Orleans at Mardi Gras.
[00:38:30]  I've never ever seen, it's one of the things I have not seen is Mardi Gras.
[00:38:34]  Would I enjoy it?
[00:38:37]  Would it be worth making a trip down to New Orleans for that?
[00:38:42]  Well, some call it a pagan celebration, actually.
[00:38:47]  And with the few photographs and pictures and motion pictures I've seen of Mardi Gras, it is kind of pagan and appealing.
[00:38:57]  Would I enjoy Mardi Gras?
[00:38:59]  Oh, well, coming toward the top of the hour, more open line talk radio next.
[00:39:05]  This is Premier Networks.
[00:39:06]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[00:39:13]  Premier Networks presents Art Bell's Somewhere in Time.
[00:39:29]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[00:39:34]  The big political news of the morning is Bob Dole's fading fast.
[00:39:38]  War is about nine points ahead in New Hampshire, catching up rapidly in Iowa.
[00:39:44]  And I feel sorry for Bob Dole.
[00:39:48]  A man who has served his country well, a man who has devoted his life to public service, and most of it very good, despite the art of compromise.
[00:39:59]  He's a good man.
[00:40:01]  But we do not have presidency by ascendancy in this country, thank goodness.
[00:40:07]  And so maybe the natural thing is happening.
[00:40:11]  And maybe that tells us the political process, even in the Republican Party, is still alive and well.
[00:40:19]  I don't know.
[00:40:21]  I don't think Bob Dole can beat Bill Quinton, so I'm not utterly unhappy about it.
[00:40:25]  I certainly expected it.
[00:40:27]  And so I'm just not surprised.
[00:40:29]  But here you go.
[00:40:31]  And so I see it now happening, and I kind of feel sorry for Bob Dole, because in a way he deserved it.
[00:40:38]  But that's an emotional feeling, and my pragmatic knowledge tells me nobody deserves the presidency unless they'll make a good president.
[00:40:52]  We don't just let them ascend through the ranks.
[00:40:55]  That is not how we get our president.
[00:41:16]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[00:41:19]  Hi.
[00:41:20]  Hello there.
[00:41:22]  Going once, going twice, gone.
[00:41:25]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[00:41:26]  Good morning.
[00:41:27]  Good evening, Mr. Bell.
[00:41:28]  This is Ben from Oregon.
[00:41:30]  Hi, Ben.
[00:41:31]  Say, can we talk about the ultimate in welfare tonight?
[00:41:35]  What is the ultimate in welfare?
[00:41:38]  The ultimate in welfare is when a man refuses induction to serve in the U.S. military.
[00:41:44]  There's no such thing.
[00:41:46]  And another person goes out.
[00:41:48]  There's no such thing.
[00:41:49]  We have only a voluntary military action.
[00:41:52]  We're talking about in a past tense.
[00:41:54]  I see.
[00:41:55]  So it was the ultimate in welfare.
[00:41:58]  Well, the recipient of this kind of welfare is the person that refuses to go to war.
[00:42:05]  Someone dies in his place.
[00:42:07]  And then he ascends to great heights in this country.
[00:42:10]  Wait a minute.
[00:42:11]  Goes to send other people away.
[00:42:13]  This is beginning to sound like primary colors.
[00:42:16]  Well, I'm going to tell you.
[00:42:19]  Well, what do you call it when someone has an attitude?
[00:42:24]  You go.
[00:42:25]  I wouldn't go.
[00:42:26]  I was too good to go.
[00:42:28]  Don't do as I do.
[00:42:30]  Do as I tell you.
[00:42:31]  Now, isn't that the ultimate in a welfare recipient?
[00:42:36]  Well, I'm not sure welfare recipient is the right.
[00:42:39]  Well, other people would use other words, some of them quite mean.
[00:42:45]  I'll tell you my attitude about it.
[00:42:46]  don't condone at all clinton's behavior for anybody who doesn't know that's who i did and you and i both know that's who we're talking about but uh i So I don't condone it.
[00:42:58]  He was wrong.
[00:43:00]  But on the other hand, he's the president.
[00:43:05]  And he was duly elected, properly elected, and he's the president, and he actually is, nauseating as it may be, the commander-in-chief.
[00:43:17]  And when he gives an order, it is the military's job to follow it.
[00:43:21]  Oh, I agree with you, but can I say one more thing?
[00:43:24]  They don't have to be happy about it, but they follow it.
[00:43:26]  God bless Steve Forbes.
[00:43:28]  Let's hope he makes it.
[00:43:30]  I thank you for the call.
[00:43:31]  Yeah, that's the big news, boy.
[00:43:32]  Steve Forbes is just going nuts.
[00:43:35]  And I guess it's karma for Bob Dole.
[00:43:38]  Poor Bob Dole.
[00:43:40]  George Bush did it to him in 92, and now it looks like Forbes is going to do it to him this year.
[00:43:50]  And while I don't want him as the nominee, I feel sorry for him.
[00:43:56]  Isn't that weird?
[00:43:57]  I mean, I've been, in a way, not blasting Dole, but right along, I've been saying that I don't think he's the right man, and I still feel that.
[00:44:09]  I nevertheless feel empathy for him.
[00:44:12]  He has worked so hard.
[00:44:14]  If there was such a thing as ascendancy by tenure, then Bob Dole certainly has earned it.
[00:44:24]  Unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess, we don't have ascendancy by tenure to the presidency, and we shouldn't have.
[00:44:34]  But it doesn't stop me from feeling kind of sorry for him.
[00:44:38]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[00:44:40]  Good morning.
[00:44:41]  Good morning, Art.
[00:44:42]  Turn your radio to the off-position.
[00:44:45]  I just did.
[00:44:46]  That surprised me.
[00:44:47]  Well, I surprise everybody.
[00:44:49]  Where are you?
[00:44:50]  Sacramento.
[00:44:51]  KST, yes.
[00:44:54]  I feel real bad that everyone seems to be doing what the press is orchestrating, and that's knocking Pat Buchanan right out of the race.
[00:45:03]  Whomever they ignore is who I think they're afraid of.
[00:45:08]  I also think they're afraid of Dole because he does look like a father figure compared to Bill Clinton.
[00:45:16]  Everybody looks like a father figure compared to Bill Clinton.
[00:45:19]  Especially when he does that thing where he swallows his upper lip.
[00:45:23]  You know, oh, God, like when he looked at his wife, I thought, if that isn't phony.
[00:45:28]  But anyway, I honestly think that they have orchestrated a lot of opinion in our time, and this is just another example of it.
[00:45:38]  If Dole ran, I do believe he would win.
[00:45:42]  We would go reluctantly, like little kids.
[00:45:45]  I'm sorry, I think you're wrong.
[00:45:47]  I really don't think Clinton can't.
[00:45:49]  And another thing you guys are doing, you too, is you say, I'm afraid he might win.
[00:45:54]  You know, don't give a.
[00:45:55]  Who said that?
[00:45:56]  Everybody.
[00:45:57]  A lot of people are saying, he's so smart.
[00:46:00]  Who says that?
[00:46:01]  I think I've heard you say it too.
[00:46:03]  He might win.
[00:46:04]  About Bob Dole?
[00:46:05]  No, no, no.
[00:46:05]  About Clinton.
[00:46:06]  Oh, Clinton, yeah, he might win.
[00:46:08]  I really like him.
[00:46:10]  Oh, I do.
[00:46:10]  He's more likely to win than not.
[00:46:12]  It has nothing to do with intelligence.
[00:46:14]  It has to do with Clinton being the ultimate politician.
[00:46:18]  Now, don't go by yourself.
[00:46:21]  Stop now.
[00:46:22]  Stop, stop.
[00:46:23]  Take a deep breath.
[00:46:24]  Now, look, you see through the man, but read the polls, ma'am.
[00:46:28]  The polls are not wrong.
[00:46:29]  Most people in America don't see through him.
[00:46:31]  He tells people what they want to hear.
[00:46:33]  They like that.
[00:46:34]  They're going for it.
[00:46:35]  All right.
[00:46:36]  I think you're counting on a lot of people voting who, if there's one thing that's going to save this country, if the militias want to do something really worthwhile, and all the Republican women's clubs, go check out how elections are handled because we've had scandals in our county.
[00:46:55]  They had them in San Francisco when Willie won.
[00:47:00]  And I believe they've had them nationally.
[00:47:02]  I think we have to really review how votes are counted and policed in this country.
[00:47:07]  Now you're talking vote fraud.
[00:47:09]  Yeah, I really am, yeah.
[00:47:11]  And I think it happens.
[00:47:12]  Everybody goes, oh, dare, how dare you say that?
[00:47:15]  Well, I generally don't believe it.
[00:47:17]  There is vote fraud on a wide scale.
[00:47:19]  I believe that.
[00:47:19]  I don't think so.
[00:47:20]  Oh, I think it is.
[00:47:22]  But anyway.
[00:47:23]  All right.
[00:47:23]  Well, I appreciate your call.
[00:47:24]  Thank you.
[00:47:25]  Yeah, of course there's vote fraud.
[00:47:27]  I mean, dead people voted in Chicago.
[00:47:29]  I mean, it's happened.
[00:47:30]  But on a wide scale, no, I don't think so.
[00:47:33]  Generally, our elections are on the up and up for the most part.
[00:47:37]  You know, I think that a lot of people talk vote fraud when elections don't come out the way they want them.
[00:47:44]  It's kind of like polls.
[00:47:47]  An awful lot of people call me up, and when the polls come out in a way they don't, with something they don't agree with, they say it's a fraud.
[00:47:59]  I don't think it is a fraud.
[00:48:00]  For the most part, polling is relatively accurate.
[00:48:04]  I think you'll find the surge right now by Forbes is going to be validated by the New Hampshire primary results.
[00:48:15]  And I think Bob Dole is going to be in the dumps.
[00:48:20]  Only thing is we don't know enough about Steve Forbes yet.
[00:48:23]  Yesterday, he came out and said he does not believe in same-sex marriages.
[00:48:27]  They asked him.
[00:48:29]  Somebody the other day said he favored gays in the military.
[00:48:32]  Well, I hadn't heard that.
[00:48:33]  But he came out last night on NBC and said he definitely does.
[00:48:37]  You know, he said, look, if two people want to live together, that's their business.
[00:48:40]  But as far as society sanctioning same-sex marriages, no, I think not.
[00:48:47]  So bit by bit, we're learning about Forbes.
[00:48:51]  And I, too, do not favor same-sex marriages.
[00:48:55]  I don't think that, well, if you, what about that?
[00:49:00]  It's really a good question.
[00:49:01]  How many of you think people of the same sex ought to be able to get married just the way a man and a woman can?
[00:49:08]  I've never been in favor of that.
[00:49:10]  But on the other hand, my attitude is, you know, to leave people alone if they leave me alone.
[00:49:17]  I mean, it's their business.
[00:49:18]  What they do in the bedroom is their business.
[00:49:22]  But to sanction it with marriage, I'm certainly not ready for that.
[00:49:28]  Are you?
[00:49:29]  Wild card line, you're on the air.
[00:49:32]  Charlie, Liverwin, California.
[00:49:34]  Hello?
[00:49:35]  First of all, I'm going to say this slowly for those in the audience who are excited about DuPont.
[00:49:42]  Say it slowly, Charlie, so you get it right.
[00:49:44]  Obviously.
[00:49:46]  DuPont?
[00:49:46]  Excited about DuPont?
[00:49:48]  Is that what you said, Charlie?
[00:49:49]  You need to slow down a little more, I think.
[00:49:51]  I get all those rich Republican folks.
[00:49:53]  Just slow down, DuPont.
[00:49:54]  DuPont, Forbes, Bush.
[00:49:56]  They're all yuppies from born into wealth and not knowing anything about the common guy.
[00:50:02]  Of course, I guess that's true with most conservatives anyway, whether they were born that way or not, isn't it?
[00:50:07]  Well, let me just say about this Forbes guy that...
[00:50:10]  How you doing down at the border, Charlie?
[00:50:12]  Down at the border.
[00:50:14]  Yeah, you are a border guard, right?
[00:50:15]  U.S. Border Patrol agent?
[00:50:17]  No, I mean, U.S. Customs.
[00:50:19]  Customs.
[00:50:19]  Oh, I'm sorry, Customs.
[00:50:20]  That's right.
[00:50:21]  Yeah, we're kind of interested in other things.
[00:50:23]  Anyway, let me just say that as far as I'm concerned, I think if this guy were to win the nomination, which he won't, I think what he's going to do is damage Bob Dole and beat him up all the way until Bob Dole eventually gets a nomination.
[00:50:37]  But if he were to get the nomination, Bill Clinton would be throwing a party.
[00:50:42]  An absolute party.
[00:50:43]  You think so?
[00:50:44]  The thing about Bob Dole, Bob Dole can stay within 10% of Bill Clinton, which means if Bill Clinton makes a major mistake, Bob Dole can win.
[00:50:52]  Well, wait a minute now.
[00:50:53]  Wait a minute.
[00:50:53]  Bob Dole can hardly stay within 10 points of Steve Forbes.
[00:50:56]  Well, I think, well, Steve Forbes threw $10 million at the guy of negative commercial.
[00:51:03]  But the thing about Steve Forbes is that Steve Forbes, I mean, he's a paper tiger.
[00:51:07]  He's going to fall all apart.
[00:51:09]  And the thing about Steve Forbes, you put Steve Forbes in there against Bill Clinton.
[00:51:12]  You're talking about a slaughter.
[00:51:14]  At least Bob Dole, I think, can hold his own.
[00:51:17]  And so.
[00:51:18]  Well, what you really think is that the election would be close, maybe eight points of four or five points even, and Clinton would win if it was Dole.
[00:51:28]  You're scared to death of Forbes, and you just won't admit it.
[00:51:32]  If you think that, I think you need a political examination.
[00:51:36]  Bill Clinton would wipe Forbes out.
[00:51:37]  First of all, Forbes, Forbes' plan on the flat tax thing alone would destroy it, would absolutely destroy his candidacy.
[00:51:46]  Just that alone.
[00:51:47]  That's why I don't think he's going to even get the nomination because you can't run on it, and Bob Dole's already attacking you.
[00:51:52]  Charlie, if I were a political proctologist, I would pronounce you terminal.
[00:51:57]  Well, I would say if you honestly sit there and you honestly believe that Forbes would stand any kind of a chance, A, of getting the nomination, which he won't, and B, of beating Bill Clinton, you got a very, very serious problem.
[00:52:12]  Well, that's what I mean.
[00:52:13]  Of course, that's what you really mean.
[00:52:15]  And I can always tell when I'm hitting the mark because you come in here sort of with a higher tone of voice, all concerned, laughing it off, three octaves higher than you are.
[00:52:25]  You want to know the candidate that the Clinton people fear most, and this is what every political expert in the country is saying, is Lamar Alexander.
[00:52:33]  Well, that may be so.
[00:52:34]  Common sense should tell you that Lamar Alexander would be the strongest candidate to put up against Bill Clinton.
[00:52:40]  In a lot of ways, he might be.

=== 17% Looks Good (04:34) ===

[00:52:42]  But he has not caught fire.
[00:52:43]  But I think, why hasn't he caught fire?
[00:52:46]  Because I think it shows you how extremist the Republican Party has got.
[00:52:50]  You look at the best part of the.
[00:52:51]  That's not altogether untrue.
[00:52:53]  But the extreme of your party is just as far out there, Charlie.
[00:52:57]  Well, all I can say is that if you run a guy who the first thing he's going to do is get rid of one of the major tax deductions as far as homes is concerned.
[00:53:12]  Home mortgages?
[00:53:13]  You can't run on that.
[00:53:16]  And then part of it's going to be a lot of money.
[00:53:17]  Yes, you can.
[00:53:17]  Look, and I'm a homeowner, and I take advantage of that every year like clockwork, Charlie.
[00:53:22]  But I do believe Forbes when he says that the extra money that would go in pockets like mine would more than make up for any home mortgage deduction that I get.
[00:53:34]  Forgetting about pockets like some people are going to end up paying more taxes.
[00:53:38]  And I think, I mean, it makes absolutely no sense.
[00:53:42]  And then you've got his own, and then you've got his own Republican people saying that.
[00:53:45]  Look, I'll tell you, Charlie, I'll be plain with you.
[00:53:49]  I'm in the 38% bracket now.
[00:53:51]  Okay?
[00:53:52]  Uh-huh.
[00:53:54]  17% looks pretty damn good to me.
[00:53:56]  Yeah, it looks pretty damn good to you.
[00:53:58]  Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of people in the 38% bracket.
[00:54:02]  There's a whole lot of people who make around $40,000 a year who are going to be paying more taxes under this guy.
[00:54:09]  I mean, no, that's not true, Charlie.
[00:54:11]  The average family making around $40,000 would pay less, not more.
[00:54:15]  Well, I think what you have to do is you look at the guy, Forbes, and start to use common sense and realize that Bob Dole is the better candidate.
[00:54:27]  He's not, Charlie.
[00:54:28]  Well, I think he's going to be your nominee.
[00:54:32]  Unfortunately, what Forbes is going to do is instead of Bob Dole wrapping up the nomination early, he's going to have to fight this Forbes guy.
[00:54:41]  He's going to end up spending a lot of money, and he's going to end up getting the nomination all beat up.
[00:54:45]  That's what's going to happen.
[00:54:46]  Well, that might happen.
[00:54:48]  That is the political process.
[00:54:49]  Thank you very much for the call.
[00:54:50]  Yeah, I don't mind, Tony.
[00:54:51]  I'm now in the 38% bracket.
[00:54:53]  17 looks good.
[00:54:56]  But even if I were in the next lower bracket, 17% would look good, and that would encompass most of America's middle class.
[00:55:05]  I'm not completely sold on the idea yet, but I am interested in it and in Forbes.
[00:55:13]  And there is more to Forbes than just the flat tax.
[00:55:18]  More and more, we're beginning to hear more and more, and the polls are going up, not down.
[00:55:23]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[00:55:24]  Hello?
[00:55:25]  Let me turn on my radio.
[00:55:26]  All right.
[00:55:27]  Thank you.
[00:55:27]  Two things.
[00:55:28]  Okay.
[00:55:29]  I think the only one, I read a couple books about Bill Clinton, and I tell you, the guy is very, very lucky.
[00:55:35]  His campaigners couldn't believe how many times he almost shot himself in the foot by all these things that would come up.
[00:55:42]  He has a way of rebounding.
[00:55:44]  I mean, he gets down in the dumps.
[00:55:46]  It looks like it's the end, and that's why they call him the comeback kid.
[00:55:50]  Yep.
[00:55:50]  I think people will vote for him.
[00:55:51]  They think he's strong, a leader.
[00:55:53]  He's young, and they think that he's like another Kennedy.
[00:55:57]  And Kennedy got a lot of votes because he was good looking and, you know, the wife and all that.
[00:56:02]  And another thing, Art, in the aftermarkets, gold is up $6.
[00:56:07]  What is the current price?
[00:56:08]  Do you know?
[00:56:08]  $419.80 in the April contract.
[00:56:11]  Oh, my God.
[00:56:12]  Is it up to $4.19?
[00:56:13]  Well, this is in the aftermarkets, you know.
[00:56:15]  Wow.
[00:56:16]  Silver is up.
[00:56:19]  I'm sorry, right now.
[00:56:21]  Silver is up 8 cents.
[00:56:22]  8 cents, huh?
[00:56:24]  From the New York clothes, right?
[00:56:25]  Well, I am not surprised.
[00:56:28]  I'm not surprised on the gold.
[00:56:31]  And I'll tell you something.
[00:56:32]  I would pay more attention to the price of gold than I would each new daily record of the stock market.
[00:56:39]  Yeah, I know gold is outperforming in silver, and it's, I don't know, it's since January, since the beginning of January, it's at $389.80 or something, and that's a huge move.
[00:56:50]  Oh, huge.
[00:56:51]  And I'm very pleased personally about it, actually.
[00:56:58]  You know, I've been telling people about gold for a long time, and now here it goes.

=== Ken Goddard's Australian Update (07:58) ===

[00:57:02]  And, I mean, here it goes.
[00:57:03]  I'll bet you we could get another rise in gold as things get closer to crunch point that would rival, you remember when gold got up to 800 once?
[00:57:13]  Yep.
[00:57:13]  Yep.
[00:57:13]  It could happen again or go beyond.
[00:57:16]  Yep, anything, who knows?
[00:57:17]  It's just the monthly charts don't look like that, but it's, you know, they're ready for big outbreaks.
[00:57:24]  Okay.
[00:57:25]  I appreciate the call.
[00:57:26]  All right.
[00:57:27]  We'll be right back.
[00:57:28]  The trip back in time continues with Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
[00:57:33]  More Somewhere in Time coming up.
[00:57:53]  We'll take you back to the past on Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[00:57:58]  Interesting facts.
[00:57:59]  Art, you may not have heard, but yesterday in San Diego, the U.S.-Mexican border crossing, southbound, was closed for five hours because of a near riot.
[00:58:11]  A church apparently formed a group called Pastors for Peace.
[00:58:15]  They organized an effort to get computers into Cuba to assist in medical care.
[00:58:20]  U.S. Customs received info weeks back about the effort, challenged the church with potential criminal action should the group attempt the border crossing.
[00:58:29]  Customs said that due to long-standing embargoes, no computers go to Cuba.
[00:58:35]  The church rented trucks, had over 300 computers for what they say is to help the many people who are being seriously hurt by our embargo.
[00:58:45]  So the whole border got closed down going southbound for about five hours.
[00:58:52]  There are a lot of border guards.
[00:58:54]  There is military.
[00:58:56]  I think that we are anticipating some difficulties at the Mexican border.
[00:59:02]  That's just my take on things.
[00:59:04]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[00:59:06]  Hi.
[00:59:07]  Hi.
[00:59:08]  Hello.
[00:59:08]  Great to talk to you.
[00:59:09]  And to you, sir.
[00:59:10]  Where are you?
[00:59:11]  I'm in Wickenburg, Arizona, listening to you on the skip.
[00:59:17]  KOB out of Albuquerque tonight.
[00:59:19]  Well, that's the way to do it.
[00:59:20]  You bet.
[00:59:21]  I can't get KFYI.
[00:59:23]  I'm not far from Phoenix, but because the A.M.
[00:59:26]  Well, you're probably in a weird area for direction from.
[00:59:28]  Yeah, I'm about 60 miles out of Phoenix and the AM power goes down.
[00:59:32]  But I find you on the skip wherever you are.
[00:59:34]  Well, KOB is a smasher.
[00:59:36]  You bet.
[00:59:37]  Hey, listen, a friend of mine called me a little earlier this evening and told me that a friend of his called him and was telling him about a mine, a mining operation north of West Yellowstone, Montana.
[00:59:54]  Yes.
[00:59:55]  that had been shut down by the United Nations.
[00:59:59]  Why?
[01:00:00]  Well, I don't know.
[01:00:01]  I was shocked when my friend called me, and I said, well, where did your friend hear this?
[01:00:06]  And he said on the news.
[01:00:08]  And he also said that the people in Butte, Montana were very upset about it, and will, I guess, you know, guns type thing.
[01:00:17]  I have heard nothing, so I thought if anybody have heard anything about this, whether you or some of your listeners there in the Butte, Montana area or West Yellowstone, I'm sure they pick you up up in that country.
[01:00:30]  They sure do.
[01:00:32]  Or Helena, you know, Great Falls, any of that area.
[01:00:35]  I go to Montana for my summertimes.
[01:00:37]  Maybe they found something weird and bizarre down there.
[01:00:40]  I don't know.
[01:00:41]  But this is what I heard.
[01:00:43]  He told me he heard it from another friend of his that had called him.
[01:00:46]  He said he heard this on the news about the United Nations shutting it down.
[01:00:51]  I don't know what business is of theirs, but, well, with the guy we have in the White House, nothing seems to surprise me as what goes on any longer.
[01:00:59]  Well, I never say never, so let us open up.
[01:01:03]  You know, we'll open it as a question to the audience.
[01:01:05]  See what we can find out.
[01:01:06]  Thank you.
[01:01:07]  Art, take care of yourself.
[01:01:08]  Take care.
[01:01:08]  Thank you.
[01:01:09]  Anybody know anything about that?
[01:01:11]  A mine near Butte, Montana shut down by Boutris and Company for whatever reason?
[01:01:18]  Boy, the price of gold.
[01:01:19]  That one's got me quite surprised.
[01:01:23]  It's rising very, very rapidly right now.
[01:01:27]  And I'm telling you, that's what you better watch.
[01:01:30]  Where people are putting its flight to safety.
[01:01:33]  That means they're anticipating something.
[01:01:37]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:01:40]  Hello?
[01:01:41]  This is Mike.
[01:01:41]  Hi, Mike.
[01:01:42]  Where are you?
[01:01:42]  I'm in Wichita, Kansas.
[01:01:44]  All right.
[01:01:45]  The reason for my call is.
[01:01:47]  I just got back from Australia last week.
[01:01:49]  Oh, you did?
[01:01:50]  And I had a friend of mine record your conversation with Ken Goddard.
[01:01:56]  Oh, yes.
[01:01:57]  And I have seen rabbits in wheelbarrows.
[01:02:01]  Oh, my God, really?
[01:02:03]  The reason for my call.
[01:02:04]  I want your facts and Mr. Goddard's facts so I can give you guys some information.
[01:02:09]  Well, I can give you mine.
[01:02:10]  I don't have Mr. Goddard's handy.
[01:02:12]  I know he's from Oregon.
[01:02:14]  Right.
[01:02:14]  My fax number is area code 702-7.
[01:02:19]  702?
[01:02:20]  Yes, 702-727-8499.
[01:02:26]  Now, make a note.
[01:02:29]  Do not send, including cover, more than three pages.
[01:02:32]  If you do, my fax machine automatically does not print it.
[01:02:36]  I'll probably just have one page.
[01:02:38]  Yeah, that's fine.
[01:02:39]  I'll just give you some information because I'm going to request if you find it interesting enough.
[01:02:44]  Because in listening to this stuff, Ken Goddard was talking about virus control, disease control, species jump, etc.
[01:02:51]  Yes.
[01:02:52]  I've got all those notes, and I've heard your conversation about it.
[01:02:55]  Yeah, well, I've got a little article here.
[01:02:58]  Ken Goddard was saying that rabbits are not closely related to primates.
[01:03:03]  And the day after he said that, an article came out saying, guess what?
[01:03:08]  Rabbits are closely related to primates.
[01:03:12]  Yes, they are.
[01:03:12]  I saw that article as well.
[01:03:14]  So I have my notes here, and I would like to send you a facts.
[01:03:18]  And I can probably find Ken Goddard's number anyway.
[01:03:23]  I know he's in.
[01:03:24]  Where's my notes?
[01:03:25]  He's not Eugene.
[01:03:27]  He's in order to send you a fact regarding that because I just got back from Australia.
[01:03:35]  I was there visiting and I took a little trail to the Outback and I saw a dump truck full of dead rabbits.
[01:03:42]  Yep.
[01:03:43]  I know.
[01:03:44]  They're dying by the millions.
[01:03:46]  It's amazing.
[01:03:46]  I know.
[01:03:47]  I appreciate your call, sir.
[01:03:48]  Thank you.
[01:03:49]  They're dying by the millions in Australia.
[01:03:51]  It is a designer virus.
[01:03:53]  It was on an island off Australia, and they thought nothing can go wrong.
[01:04:00]  We will simply test it on this island.
[01:04:02]  But of course, it got out.
[01:04:04]  And when it did, and the rabbits began dying by the millions, at first the Aussies clapped and yelled and screamed because they've got a plague of rabbits and they were really happy.
[01:04:16]  Now it may well be that they're beginning to get a little worried because all the rabbits may die.
[01:04:27]  Before they do, they may pass this on to another host.
[01:04:33]  And it is a form of hemorrhagic fever related in some way to Ebola.
[01:04:40]  Same family, same idea, dissolving organs, that kind of thing.

=== Mandating Cancer Insurance (05:04) ===

[01:04:45]  And one of these days, we're going to do something we're going to be very sorry for.
[01:04:50]  It may not be this day, but one of these days.
[01:04:53]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:04:54]  Hi.
[01:04:55]  Hello, Art.
[01:04:56]  This is Forrest in Lexington.
[01:04:58]  Kentucky, yes, sir.
[01:05:00]  Yeah.
[01:05:02]  You were, over the past couple days, you've been asking about Clinton's insurance bill and health bill.
[01:05:10]  Well, this Kennedy-Kasbaum bill that would mandate that insurance companies would accept you when you get sick, even with some sort of prior condition, yeah.
[01:05:23]  Yeah, if you'll take a look at Kentucky's H. Bill 71, I believe you'll find it word for word.
[01:05:31]  Probably.
[01:05:33]  Since the House passed that bill, my insurance premium has gone to 300%.
[01:05:42]  Wow.
[01:05:44]  Well, how could it not?
[01:05:46]  I mean, if people are allowed not to get insurance until they need it.
[01:05:50]  It's like saying you don't have to have car insurance.
[01:05:53]  But listen, if you get into a terrible accident, you go down to the All-State or whoever, and they're forced to sell you insurance and pay off on the accident?
[01:06:02]  I don't think so.
[01:06:04]  Well, that's what they're doing here.
[01:06:08]  We've got a morning talk show that comes on directly after yours does.
[01:06:12]  Right.
[01:06:13]  After you go off, well, it's an hour after, but you've still got an hour we don't hear.
[01:06:17]  Right.
[01:06:18]  The talk show personality is Keith Raines.
[01:06:23]  He can fill you in more on that if you can contact him at your local affiliate, and I'm sure you've got the number.
[01:06:30]  Sounds like he'd be worth talking to.
[01:06:32]  Yeah, he's...
[01:06:33]  I'm just approaching this from a common sense point of view.
[01:06:36]  If an insurance company is forced to accept you after the fact, then they're really not, you can't call them an insurance company anymore.
[01:06:44]  In fact, I'm not even sure you can call them in business very long.
[01:06:49]  No, we're down to...
[01:06:51]  And there's only one way that that company, if you want to call it that, could stay in business under those conditions.
[01:06:57]  And that is it would be subsidized by the federal government.
[01:07:01]  It's just a sneaky way for the president to get what he wanted all along anyway, and that's health care for everybody, period.
[01:07:09]  Well, because of them, they've got four.
[01:07:12]  We've got four plans, and no one can be turned down from them if you can afford them.
[01:07:19]  The majority of the working people, and I am in that class, Aren't going to be able to afford I'm not going to be able to afford to keep my family insured after my policy runs out in about three months.
[01:07:33]  Well, yeah, but suppose, let's say you can't afford it, so you drop it, okay?
[01:07:38]  You're uninsured.
[01:07:39]  Now you get the big C. You come down with cancer.
[01:07:43]  Well, according to the way I'm reading this, you can go back and get your insurance after you've got the cancer, and they can't turn you down.
[01:07:51]  Yeah, that's the way it works.
[01:07:53]  Oh, yeah.
[01:07:54]  Well, that's good news.
[01:07:55]  That's just the way we were raised.
[01:07:56]  That's a good deal for you.
[01:07:57]  That isn't, yeah, it voids the whole concept of insurance.
[01:08:02]  It's not insurance.
[01:08:03]  It's a national socialized health care plan.
[01:08:07]  Yeah.
[01:08:09]  So look, there are two segments to the Kennedy-Castlebaum bill.
[01:08:13]  One is portability, and I think that's fine.
[01:08:16]  If you're buying insurance, there is no reason that you should lose it when you change jobs.
[01:08:21]  I'm all for that.
[01:08:22]  Easy to do with legislation.
[01:08:25]  But this you cannot be turned down business removes the whole basis of the idea of insurance.
[01:08:34]  And companies will insure you based on risk.
[01:08:41]  In other words, as you get older, insurance costs more.
[01:08:46]  If you are a risky lifestyle, it costs you more, and so forth and so on.
[01:08:52]  And based on that, they can eke out a profit.
[01:08:57]  But if you are allowed to go down and run and get insurance after the fact, then who's going to carry it?
[01:09:04]  Who could afford it?
[01:09:06]  The people who do carry insurance would have such a burden placed on them, premium-wise, to take care of all those people who wouldn't go down and get it till they get sick that the whole thing would collapse.
[01:09:18]  But it wouldn't, you see, because the government would subsidize it.
[01:09:23]  So then what would we have?
[01:09:25]  we'd have the Clinton plan right through the back door.

=== Bell Witch Tale (15:28) ===

[01:09:48]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:09:51]  Yes, Art?
[01:09:52]  Yes, sir.
[01:09:53]  This is Jeff from just outside of frozen Memphis, Tennessee.
[01:09:56]  How frozen is Memphis?
[01:09:58]  Well, compared to what our northern relatives have to put up with, not very much.
[01:10:05]  But I've heard another big snowstorm is headed to the northeast.
[01:10:11]  Yeah, Memphis has a magic snow dome over it, and if there's snow coming this way, it'll either go south or north of us.
[01:10:18]  Don't ask me to explain it.
[01:10:19]  It just continues to happen that way.
[01:10:20]  Well, maybe you guys live right.
[01:10:22]  I don't know about that.
[01:10:24]  What I want to talk about is something I've been anxious to, a subject I've been anxious to broach with you for quite some time.
[01:10:31]  Have you ever heard of a phenomenon called the Bell Witch?
[01:10:34]  The Bell Witch.
[01:10:35]  Right.
[01:10:38]  You're not saying something about my wife, are you?
[01:10:40]  No, not at all.
[01:10:41]  All right.
[01:10:42]  Not at all.
[01:10:42]  I'm sure she's just lovely.
[01:10:45]  I'm sure she's a wonderful person.
[01:10:46]  I'm just kidding.
[01:10:47]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:10:48]  What is the Bell Witch?
[01:10:49]  The Bell Witch is a well-documented paranormal phenomenon that occurred back in the late 1700s and occurred through until the early 1800s.
[01:10:59]  When I say well-documented, it's well-documented by most of the prominent Tennesseans of the era, including Andrew Jackson.
[01:11:06]  Yes, sir.
[01:11:07]  It was an entity which was called by the common folk the Bell Witch, although was not a human entity by any means.
[01:11:18]  There's been different theories.
[01:11:20]  One that it was a dispos actually a dispossessed demon, one that it was possibly even an alien entity.
[01:11:30]  But, you know, it it's one it goes along the lines, if you believe that, basically, that if you have superior technology, it appears like to be as magic to those who, you know, don't understand it or whatever.
[01:11:42]  But there's lots of documentation about it.
[01:11:44]  And the reason I wanted to bring it up to you is I remember way back during your Halloween show, you made a mention that if there was a haunted house that someone knew that was very well documented, a very haunted house that you would like to know, and I can't remember whether you said you'd just like to visit there one day or whether you'd actually like to do a show from there one day or whatever.
[01:12:06]  Well, there's not a house involved with the Bell Witch legend anymore.
[01:12:10]  I wonder if I would do that.
[01:12:11]  I mean, I have a big mouth, but if it was really a haunted house, would I go there and do a show?
[01:12:16]  I might.
[01:12:17]  Well, let me tell you this little story.
[01:12:19]  And there might be dead air about in the middle of it.
[01:12:21]  That's true.
[01:12:22]  That's true.
[01:12:22]  The Nashville, Tennessean sent a reporter and a photographer back in the 1980s on Halloween night to do a story on the Bell Witch.
[01:12:35]  Great assignment.
[01:12:36]  Yeah, right.
[01:12:37]  And the only part of the Bell Witch legend which is still existent since the homes that were built in the time which you frequented are now dilapidated and gone for good was an area called the Bell Witch Cave.
[01:12:53]  And it's currently owned by a family called the Kirbys who have people from all over the area that come and visit there.
[01:13:01]  And in fact, if you wrote a letter to the owners of the Bell Witch Cave, quote, the Kirbys, and sent it to Bells, Tennessee, Adams, Tennessee, you would actually get that letter mailed to them because everyone in that area knows who they are.
[01:13:19]  But they allowed this to occur.
[01:13:22]  The reporter and the photographer set up a camp just inside the entrance of the cave, and they didn't want to go any deeper because they saw a few brown-like clue spiders.
[01:13:32]  So they decided they were going to set their costs up more towards the outside.
[01:13:36]  Okay, we've got to hurry here.
[01:13:37]  I understand.
[01:13:39]  They heard a voice that sounded like a scream come from the back of the cave towards the front of the cave.
[01:13:45]  And when it got about 10 feet away, they both lost their nerve and bolted.
[01:13:48]  A scream?
[01:13:49]  Yes.
[01:13:50]  Well, that would do it for me, too.
[01:13:51]  I don't like screams.
[01:13:53]  But at any rate, there's a wonderful book out now by a guy who does a lot of the mythology from that area.
[01:13:59]  And there's a picture.
[01:14:00]  He said, every time you try to take a picture of the Bell Witch Cave, something else appears in it.
[01:14:04]  And since I know you're into pictures for your website and everything, I'm going to try to fax you a copy of this picture that's in the book.
[01:14:11]  Oh, no.
[01:14:12]  Faxed pictures don't come out well.
[01:14:15]  Do you have a computer?
[01:14:16]  No, I don't, but I have a friend that does that I could probably get him to send it that way.
[01:14:20]  All right.
[01:14:21]  If you can do it, do it that way.
[01:14:23]  And if you would include permission to publish it as well.
[01:14:27]  And I will give out my address.
[01:14:28]  Thank you very much.
[01:14:30]  I publish these kinds of pictures.
[01:14:32]  You know why?
[01:14:33]  Because people don't believe it.
[01:14:36]  People don't believe it.
[01:14:38]  And now, fortunately, we are squarely in the information age so that I can share this.
[01:14:45]  Whether it is by newsletter or a computer or the World Wide Web, I get these photographs.
[01:14:51]  And instead of sitting here and describing them to you on the radio, I copy them, I scan them, I make them available, and you guys can sit out there.
[01:15:01]  And by the way, ooh, by the way, while we're on, I have scanned with limited luck.
[01:15:07]  The moving video from the UFO in Mexico is very good.
[01:15:13]  I've got a still that I have plucked from the moving video.
[01:15:20]  And it's tolerable.
[01:15:24]  It was kind of dark, but I think that I may post it for you to see.
[01:15:30]  They are having some sightings, I'm telling you, right now in Mexico that'll blow your mind.
[01:15:35]  And I've got a still, and I may make that available as of tomorrow.
[01:15:38]  We'll see.
[01:15:39]  On our first time caller line, welcome to the program.
[01:15:44]  I was first introduced to your show.
[01:15:45]  I heard it about six months ago, and I heard a bunch of interesting things of things that were going on in the world, you know.
[01:15:53]  Yes, sir.
[01:15:54]  And I'm a to put it straight, I'm a Christian and I study the Bible pretty much.
[01:16:00]  That's fine.
[01:16:01]  It's just phenomenal.
[01:16:02]  Some of the things that I heard you speaking about, or some of your guest speakers were actually saying some things, numerous things that the Bible predicted for end time prophecy.
[01:16:15]  Well, some of the it's true.
[01:16:18]  Some of the guests I bring on talk of those kinds of things.
[01:16:21]  I'm going to have a guest like that tomorrow night.
[01:16:23]  Yeah, I heard about the Mayan calendar.
[01:16:25]  The Mayan calendar, uh-huh.
[01:16:26]  And some biblical scholars get angry when I have that kind of a guest.
[01:16:32]  Others find commonality in what my guests say with what they see in the Bible.
[01:16:37]  Right.
[01:16:38]  Reading the Bible.
[01:16:39]  Right.
[01:16:39]  And apparently you find commonality.
[01:16:42]  Exactly.
[01:16:44]  Some of the things that you admit that were talked about with the United Nations kind of taking over control of things, the Bible predicts that there will be a one-world government in the last days.
[01:16:59]  You've talked about earthquakes and pestilence or disease.
[01:17:04]  Yes.
[01:17:06]  Jesus himself had predicted in the last days that there will be famines, earthquakes, and disease in the last days in the generation that saw.
[01:17:19]  Yeah, but also it says, no man shall really know the time.
[01:17:22]  Exactly.
[01:17:23]  So we have earthquakes, we have famine and disease.
[01:17:26]  As a talk show host, I have simply noted in a very secular way, and I watched the news very carefully, there is a lot more of it going on.
[01:17:35]  Now, I don't put a religious significance necessarily to it.
[01:17:39]  Right.
[01:17:41]  But you can interpret it any way you want.
[01:17:44]  It is on the increase, and I call it the quickening.
[01:17:47]  Sir, I've got to run.
[01:17:48]  Thank you for the call from Delaware.
[01:17:50]  We're going to break here at the top of the hour.
[01:17:52]  We'll be back with more from the high desert.
[01:17:54]  I'm Art Bell.
[01:17:56]  This is Premier Networks.
[01:17:57]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[01:18:04]  Bell, somewhere in time.
[01:18:18]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AF from February 1st, 1996.
[01:18:23]  You know, I don't know why, but I like this.
[01:18:26]  Cigarettes and watching Captain Bay Caro, don't tell me.
[01:18:31]  Kind of country, but kind of good.
[01:18:34]  Last night I dressed in tales pretending I was on the tails.
[01:18:39]  That ler brothers.
[01:18:40]  As long as I can dream, it's hard to slow the swingers.
[01:18:43]  Ah, good morning, everybody.
[01:18:45]  Don't give a fuck to me.
[01:18:46]  I'm afraid of the money.
[01:18:48]  I've got a fax here, um, very anti-flat tax, and I will read it and challenge you to answer it.
[01:19:15]  Under the Forbes flat tax, I would lose $1,900.
[01:19:22]  Millions of Americans in low-income brackets will be very big losers.
[01:19:27]  Under the Forbes plan, all deductions are eliminated.
[01:19:31]  So are all credits.
[01:19:34]  I am totally disabled.
[01:19:36]  My wife of 20-plus years lost her job last year due to plant cutbacks, and I've got three children at home.
[01:19:43]  Now, wait a minute.
[01:19:45]  The loss I refer to is the loss of the earned income credit.
[01:19:49]  Ah, for low-income families.
[01:19:52]  I agree it's not fair to other taxpayers to give someone more money back in the form of a refund than they actually paid in to the federal government in taxes.
[01:20:02]  But the fact remains that many will lose this credit.
[01:20:06]  This will translate into a real tax loss for those that need it.
[01:20:11]  David.
[01:20:13]  Well, on the face of it, that's probably true.
[01:20:17]  Let's see, you're married and you have three children and almost no income, so you pay no tax.
[01:20:23]  Under the Forbes plan, you would pay no tax.
[01:20:29]  But you're probably right.
[01:20:31]  Under the Forbes plan, all deductions.
[01:20:35]  Well, wait a minute.
[01:20:35]  That's not a deduction, though, is it?
[01:20:39]  So, look, I'm not an accountant, and I cannot answer this.
[01:20:45]  Maybe somebody else can.
[01:20:48]  Can anybody tell me what would happen to this man under the Forbes plan?
[01:20:54]  He pays no tax now.
[01:20:56]  He would pay no tax under the Forbes Plan, but under the Forbes Plan, with all deductions and credits gone, he would lose the credit he has for being disabled.
[01:21:10]  Low income.
[01:21:12]  All right, Steve Forbes has the answer.
[01:21:15]  Why don't we do something about all those lazy freeloaders who aren't able to pull their weight in the job market?
[01:21:21]  Free trade is not the problem.
[01:21:22]  It's laziness.
[01:21:24]  Unemployment is low.
[01:21:26]  Over the last seven years, first-time claims for unemployment have only averaged around $350,000 a week.
[01:21:33]  That's nothing.
[01:21:34]  $350,000 a week times 52 weeks times seven years equals 127,400,000.
[01:21:48]  That's peanuts.
[01:21:49]  When are these people going to wake up and go out and get a job?
[01:21:52]  Pap Buchanan is off the mark when he claims free trade is costing America jobs.
[01:21:57]  We need somebody like Steve Forbes who supports free trade so we can keep the cost of goods cheap here in America.
[01:22:05]  D in Auburn.
[01:22:06]  Or this.
[01:22:08]  Art Bell, Steve Forbes.
[01:22:10]  He's saying exactly what people want to hear.
[01:22:13]  Doesn't that remind you of someone else?
[01:22:15]  Wake up and smell the coffee.
[01:22:17]  He would never be able to follow through with any of his idle promises.
[01:22:21]  I'm going to vote for Dole in the primary, and if Forbes wins the Republican nomination, I will vote for Clinton.
[01:22:31]  Love your program, he says.
[01:22:36]  Now, let me get this straight.
[01:22:38]  You're going for Dole, but if Forbes wins, you're going to vote for Clinton.
[01:22:45]  That's remarkable.
[01:22:48]  Absolutely remarkable.
[01:22:52]  What a choice.
[01:22:55]  Shish.
[01:22:58]  Let's see.
[01:23:00]  I left a file called WashZip on the BBS.
[01:23:03]  What it is, is a trial brief for proving driving is a constitutional right.
[01:23:09]  Well, I'll read that.
[01:23:10]  A lot of people think driving on the roads is a constitutional right.
[01:23:15]  You don't need a license.
[01:23:16]  You don't need insurance.
[01:23:18]  You don't need any of the stuff they tell you you need.
[01:23:21]  You can just do it.
[01:23:23]  Then this.
[01:23:24]  All right.
[01:23:24]  I think you are guilty of becoming a little like the mainstream press, supporting Clinton by default because you think he'll win.
[01:23:32]  Well, I'm just telling you what I think.
[01:23:34]  If that makes you think I'm like the mainstream press, then I can't do anything about that.
[01:23:40]  If Forbes is the candidate, he may well give Clinton a run for his money.
[01:23:45]  I don't think Bob Dole can win.
[01:23:47]  It's true.
[01:23:47]  I'm sorry.
[01:23:48]  I'm sorry.
[01:23:49]  I'm sorry if that makes you think that I have sold out.
[01:23:53]  Then that's the way it is.
[01:23:54]  I'm just honestly telling you what I think.
[01:23:57]  Bob Dole does not have the personality to beat Bill Clinton, to beat him at all.
[01:24:03]  As a matter of fact, Bill Clinton would push every hot button Bob Dole has, and he's got them all over him.
[01:24:08]  Bob Dole's hot buttons are easy to push.
[01:24:11]  Bob Dole has not been a happy man lately.
[01:24:14]  Have you seen him?
[01:24:15]  Since the answer, if you call it that, to the State of the Union address, Bob Dole has been frowning.
[01:24:22]  He's obviously unhappy.
[01:24:25]  He knows he's in trouble.
[01:24:27]  He knows a repeat of what occurred in 92 is about to occur again.
[01:24:34]  And frankly, he's a good American, and I feel sorry for him, but not sorry enough to say that he should ascend to the nomination in the presidency should he be able to win it as a king would ascend to the throne.

=== Why UN Natural? (11:57) ===

[01:24:48]  I just don't feel that way.
[01:24:51]  Then anyway, this person goes on.
[01:24:52]  Clinton cannot win.
[01:24:54]  You don't give Americans enough credit, and they're fed up and not that finicky.
[01:24:59]  Be careful how you think.
[01:25:01]  You are too quick to believe the polls.
[01:25:04]  How do you explain the incredible upset of the 94 congressional elections?
[01:25:08]  That wasn't an upset at all.
[01:25:12]  Everybody expected the Republicans to do very well, as a matter of fact, and they did.
[01:25:20]  So that was not an upset.
[01:25:22]  Polls were correct.
[01:25:23]  People were fed up.
[01:25:26]  But with regard to President Clinton, I'm sorry.
[01:25:30]  I really think he is a hell of a politician.
[01:25:33]  Not president, but he's a great politician.
[01:25:35]  Absolutely a great politician.
[01:25:38]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:25:40]  Hi.
[01:25:42]  Hello there.
[01:25:43]  Yes, hello.
[01:25:44]  Hello.
[01:25:44]  Hi.
[01:25:45]  Where are you?
[01:25:45]  This is Marie from Palm Springs.
[01:25:47]  Hi, Marie.
[01:25:48]  Hi.
[01:25:49]  You know what I want to ask you is last week you had said something about smallpox.
[01:25:54]  Yes.
[01:25:55]  Was coming back?
[01:25:56]  Yes.
[01:25:57]  Okay, and then there was a doctor on the air that said that there hasn't been any cases in 10 years?
[01:26:03]  Oh, there has been.
[01:26:04]  There has been.
[01:26:05]  Yes.
[01:26:06]  Okay, I just wanted to find out about that.
[01:26:08]  Mm-hmm.
[01:26:09]  Because I know the doctor said there hadn't been in 10 years, and you said that smallpox was coming.
[01:26:14]  That was a lady doctor who called from Arizona.
[01:26:16]  Right.
[01:26:17]  No, they have had smallpox.
[01:26:19]  Okay.
[01:26:20]  And one other thing.
[01:26:22]  What's your reason why you don't favor same-sex marriages?
[01:26:30]  I mean, just what's your opinion on that?
[01:26:32]  a really good question.
[01:26:37]  I, I mean, I'm not getting right or wrong.
[01:26:40]  I just want to know why you don't think it's right.
[01:26:42]  Because I feel it's unnatural.
[01:26:44]  But it's not unnatural for them to live together?
[01:26:49]  I do think it's unnatural for them to live together.
[01:26:52]  I don't think society has any right to prevent it.
[01:26:55]  Okay.
[01:26:57]  Okay, that's what I wanted to know.
[01:26:58]  Right, thank you.
[01:27:00]  That's the best answer I can give.
[01:27:02]  People do unnatural things all the time.
[01:27:05]  That's one question.
[01:27:06]  Do I have a right to stick my nose into their affairs?
[01:27:09]  No.
[01:27:10]  Does the government?
[01:27:11]  No.
[01:27:12]  Do the police, barring any real law breaking?
[01:27:17]  No.
[01:27:18]  So if two women or two men want to live together, that's their business, not mine.
[01:27:25]  However, if they want to get married and have the state, in effect, sanction that union, then I think we have a different question.
[01:27:33]  And I'm sure that does not properly answer your question, but it's the best I can do.
[01:27:36]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:27:39]  Yeah, I was wondering about the this is Phoenix, Arizona.
[01:27:44]  Yes, sir.
[01:27:45]  And the name is Marvin.
[01:27:47]  Hi, Marvin.
[01:27:48]  And the hemorrhagic fever and that, I was wondering what would doom us.
[01:27:53]  And the only thing that I can think of that would really be a sore spot is if the oceans themselves caught some of the diseases and moved completely through our sea life.
[01:28:07]  Well, the ocean is necessary to life.
[01:28:10]  Yes, it sure is.
[01:28:11]  And the oceans are in trouble now.
[01:28:14]  Yes, they are.
[01:28:16]  So I do not take the traditional Republican anti-environmental position.
[01:28:22]  A lot of what the environmentalists are saying is total nutcase stuff, but a lot of it is not.
[01:28:28]  But I'm talking about the hemorrhagic fever.
[01:28:31]  If there was one of these diseases that would propagate through sea life, you can see that three-fifths of the earth would have no borders.
[01:28:44]  Well, if we keep dumping nuclear waste into the oceans, we won't need to worry about hemorrhagic fever doing in sea life.
[01:28:51]  And if we keep dumping hospital waste, which is a part of this chain anyway, this DNA chain, we're certainly inviting the problem.
[01:29:04]  Oh, yeah, there's nothing like going down to the beach for a nice day at the beach and finding a bunch of used hypodermic needles with some red fluid floating about inside and that sort of thing washing up on shore.
[01:29:17]  Really makes you want to jump right in.
[01:29:21]  Somebody just wrote me a quick facts and said, hey, Art, next time you get an immortal on the line, ask them how long they can hold their breath.
[01:29:31]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[01:29:33]  Hey, Art, this is Tony and Eva Beach White.
[01:29:35]  Eva Beach?
[01:29:37]  Yes.
[01:29:37]  Birthplace of my wife.
[01:29:39]  Oh, really?
[01:29:40]  Oh, yeah.
[01:29:41]  You seem to be one of the only people who know how to pronounce it correctly.
[01:29:46]  Right.
[01:29:46]  Well, let's see.
[01:29:47]  I want to talk to you about Steve Forbes.
[01:29:48]  Yes, okay.
[01:29:50]  Okay.
[01:29:50]  Well, let's see.
[01:29:51]  Winning the primary would be his biggest.
[01:29:55]  I think that'd be great for the Republican Party if he can take New Hampshire and Iowa.
[01:30:02]  But now you mentioned that he was, was he ahead of Bob Dole in the New Hampshire primary?
[01:30:08]  Nine points.
[01:30:09]  He was ahead of him.
[01:30:11]  As of today, he's nine points ahead of Bob Dole.
[01:30:14]  And Bob Dole looks like one dour Dole.
[01:30:17]  I'm telling you, he looks unhappy.
[01:30:19]  Bob Dole is not running a good race.
[01:30:23]  He's hardly running a race at all.
[01:30:25]  Well, he didn't look good after the state of the union address.
[01:30:28]  It's sort of like he's stonewalling everything, and he doesn't look happy.
[01:30:32]  He doesn't look into it.
[01:30:33]  He doesn't look energized.
[01:30:36]  And so I don't know whether it's that Steve Forbes and the flat tax and the other things he's got are so great.
[01:30:43]  It's just that Dole is so weak.
[01:30:45]  Well, Steve Forbes seems to have a personality.
[01:30:48]  Yeah.
[01:30:48]  Bob Dole does, he just does not have the passion I think a lot of the American people want the Republican Party to have.
[01:30:56]  You know, Newton Gingrich has that passion very well, but he doesn't, of course, want to take the run.
[01:31:02]  You're correct.
[01:31:02]  Dole just, you know, he's too monotone.
[01:31:07]  So far, let me tell you what it really is.
[01:31:10]  You remember the fondness that we all have for Walter Cronkite?
[01:31:15]  Remember that?
[01:31:17]  He's kind of like Dad, right?
[01:31:19]  Well, Ronald Reagan, most Americans, love him or hate him, have the same sort of deep fondness for Reagan as the father figure.
[01:31:30]  Right.
[01:31:31]  Bob Dole does not fit into that category.
[01:31:35]  To some degree, Steve Forbes does.
[01:31:40]  Well, Steve Forbes says a lot of things that people like.
[01:31:44]  Economically, he does have an idea of what global the economy is all about.
[01:31:51]  I've seen him on Nightline.
[01:31:52]  I've seen him in other places.
[01:31:53]  And as for world events, and it seemed like Ted Coppel was trying to get him on the world event.
[01:31:58]  I knew.
[01:31:58]  Koppel was trying to say, oh, what do you know about Bosnio?
[01:32:01]  Or what do you know about the Middle East?
[01:32:03]  And Forbes did have an answer.
[01:32:05]  I mean, he's been writing editorials for Forbes magazines for a while.
[01:32:08]  Sure.
[01:32:08]  And so he has an idea of what's going on just beside money.
[01:32:14]  And I don't like the idea of the way they're attacking him because he's a rich person.
[01:32:19]  This is a capitalist country.
[01:32:21]  Everybody has a right to earn as much as they can and go with it.
[01:32:25]  And it's not right for people to do.
[01:32:29]  Wait, wait, There is a valid question to be asked, and I'm dealing with it myself, trying to.
[01:32:37]  He has spent thus far $17 million.
[01:32:40]  He's outspending his opponents on television by about three to one.
[01:32:45]  Big money.
[01:32:46]  Really big money.
[01:32:48]  Now, it is.
[01:32:50]  Yeah, it's his money.
[01:32:51]  That's right.
[01:32:52]  It's a free country, and he's allowed to do it, but I wonder if he ought to be.
[01:32:56]  In other words, that kind of money potentially distorts the democratic process.
[01:33:04]  Well, okay, but on the other side of the corner, you got the ACLU pumping $35 million or the FLCIO.
[01:33:10]  No, I know.
[01:33:11]  Look, in the end, I think I come down on the side of he ought to be able to spend whatever he wants to spend.
[01:33:16]  But I'm considering that argument.
[01:33:19]  Right.
[01:33:19]  Money talks, and we all know that what walks.
[01:33:26]  Well, yeah, that's true.
[01:33:28]  All right.
[01:33:28]  Well, I appreciate the call.
[01:33:29]  Thank you.
[01:33:30]  Look, I do.
[01:33:31]  I think he should be able to spend his own money.
[01:33:35]  And this is the land of the free, home of the brave and the rich.
[01:33:39]  And if they want to spend their money on ads, they can do it.
[01:33:44]  Phil Graham has got a gigantic war chest.
[01:33:47]  You could argue it doesn't seem to have helped him.
[01:33:50]  He's down in the single digit.
[01:33:51]  So it's not just the money.
[01:33:54]  I don't think it's just the money.
[01:33:57]  Steve Forbes has a personality.
[01:34:00]  He's got a vision.
[01:34:01]  He's got a message.
[01:34:03]  He seems to exhibit leadership.
[01:34:08]  And that's part of it.
[01:34:11]  It's not just the money.
[01:34:14]  Can a lot of money distort the democratic process?
[01:34:17]  Yes, perhaps.
[01:34:19]  But are we the land of the free?
[01:34:21]  Yes.
[01:34:22]  Should you be allowed to spend your money if you want to?
[01:34:26]  Probably.
[01:34:27]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[01:34:29]  Hi.
[01:34:30]  Hi, this is Roy from Idaho.
[01:34:32]  Yes, hi.
[01:34:33]  You had someone on there who had said something about the UN taking over or saying something about Yellowstone Park.
[01:34:43]  You know what?
[01:34:44]  It's true.
[01:34:45]  Oh, yeah, I've got the deal right here.
[01:34:47]  So do I.
[01:34:48]  The World Heritage Committee.
[01:34:51]  No, I've got it from the Washington Times.
[01:34:53]  How about that?
[01:34:54]  Well, this is from our local paper, and it's telling about the World Heritage Committee voted in Berlin, and they voted that Yellowstone, that the gold mine was a threat to Yellowstone Park.
[01:35:06]  Right.
[01:35:07]  And Bruce Babbitt and Al Gore brought them over at taxpayer expense, and I was really not amused.
[01:35:15]  Right, and a lot of people are not.
[01:35:16]  Listen to this.
[01:35:18]  A UN delegation to Yellowstone National Park has spurred outrage among Westerners who accuse the international body of meddling in domestic policy.
[01:35:28]  No kidding.
[01:35:29]  After a three-day evaluation by international experts, the World Heritage Committee, a Bureau of the UN Environmental, Scientific, and Cultural Organization, declared Yellowstone a world heritage site in danger.
[01:35:44]  Chief among the delegation's concerns was the proposed reopening of the new World Mine, a gold mine located near Yellowstone in Montana.
[01:36:01]  But debate about the mine has all been overshadowed by the uproar over the delegation itself.
[01:36:08]  In areas of the West where the state's rights movement is flourishing and distrust of centralized government is at an all-time high, the arrival of a UN committee has been viewed as nothing less than an attempt to subvert U.S. sovereignty.
[01:36:25]  It figured it'd be called the New World Mine.
[01:36:30]  New World Mine.

=== 13,000 Figures Misunderstood (15:47) ===

[01:36:32]  And I've got to agree, the U.N. can stuff it, as far as I'm concerned.
[01:36:38]  What right do they have out West telling us what we can and can't do?
[01:36:44]  I really do feel that way.
[01:36:48]  And apparently a lot of other people do too, because I, you know, this delegation is going to be lucky to get out of town without being tarred and feathered.
[01:36:55]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:36:57]  Hi.
[01:36:59]  No, they don't.
[01:37:00]  But anyway, Art, long time ago, you gave out a picture, what, 10 years ago?
[01:37:06]  Don't remind me.
[01:37:08]  I love it.
[01:37:09]  So I like it.
[01:37:10]  I keep it handy.
[01:37:12]  You've got it around, huh?
[01:37:13]  I sure do.
[01:37:15]  And I wondered if I sent it back to you, would you autograph it?
[01:37:18]  No.
[01:37:20]  You know why I must say?
[01:37:21]  You know why I have to say that.
[01:37:23]  You know, don't you?
[01:37:24]  Why would you call me on the air with such a question?
[01:37:26]  If I were to say yes, I'd say yes to you and millions of other people, and the show is about a million times bigger than it was then.
[01:37:34]  And the U.S. Post Office would bring big 18-wheelers to my house and dump off loads and loads of requests.
[01:37:43]  Did you send out that many?
[01:37:47]  I sent off thousands.
[01:37:49]  Oh, you did?
[01:37:50]  Oh, yes.
[01:37:51]  And that was long ago.
[01:37:53]  Right.
[01:37:54]  Well, not that long ago, Art.
[01:37:56]  A decade.
[01:37:57]  Well, okay.
[01:37:59]  Have you changed that much?
[01:38:01]  I bought your book.
[01:38:02]  Oh, you did?
[01:38:03]  Well, then you see a current photo of me in there, so you tell me, have I changed?
[01:38:08]  No.
[01:38:09]  Maybe I'm immortal.
[01:38:11]  No.
[01:38:12]  Maybe.
[01:38:13]  Maybe you are.
[01:38:16]  I like the line I got, and I want some immortal to answer that.
[01:38:19]  Did you hear me a few minutes ago?
[01:38:20]  Somebody sent a fax and said, next time you get an immortal who calls, ask them how long they can hold their breath.
[01:38:27]  I thought it was two.
[01:38:29]  It's a good question.
[01:38:31]  Well, I still like your picture.
[01:38:32]  I really do.
[01:38:34]  Well, very kind of you.
[01:38:36]  Thank you very much.
[01:38:37]  And the answer, I'm sorry, has to be no.
[01:38:40]  I did that once.
[01:38:41]  I said, ah, yeah, okay.
[01:38:42]  You know, send me a self-addressed stamped envelope and I'll send you a photograph.
[01:38:46]  Biggest mistake I ever made.
[01:38:49]  I was getting photos copied, licking envelopes for weeks on end.
[01:38:54]  Never again.
[01:38:56]  All right, we're going to pause here.
[01:38:57]  We'll be right back.
[01:38:58]  This is Premier Networks.
[01:39:00]  That was Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM on this Somewhere in Time.
[01:39:08]  Art Bell, Somewhere in Time.
[01:39:26]  Tonight, featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[01:39:31]  Good morning.
[01:39:32]  Hey, Art.
[01:39:32]  I've got to correct you on the comment you made.
[01:39:35]  You can put anything on the net wrong.
[01:39:37]  Today, Congress and the Senate passed the new communications bill, telecommunications, actually, which will allow the government to censor the net.
[01:39:44]  So what?
[01:39:45]  Censor only in the sense that you can't send pornography to children.
[01:39:51]  Is that outrageous?
[01:39:53]  Is that too much censorship for you?
[01:39:57]  Do you think you ought to be able to send pornography to kids?
[01:39:59]  I don't.
[01:40:01]  And so if they can regulate that, fine.
[01:40:04]  This is from Hawaii, where, by the way, they're having a big debate.
[01:40:08]  Hawaii, as you know, may be the state that begins same-sex marriages.
[01:40:15]  I think there's a bill now.
[01:40:16]  Somebody in Hawaii call me and tell me about it, but they may do it, and then it's going to go to the U.S. Supreme Court.
[01:40:22]  And if it is upheld there, there will be then same-sex marriages allowed in every state.
[01:40:31]  Something to look forward to.
[01:40:34]  Boy.
[01:40:36]  East of the Rockies, you are on the air.
[01:40:38]  Good morning.
[01:40:39]  Good morning.
[01:40:40]  Is that Mr. Bell?
[01:40:41]  Yes.
[01:40:42]  Mr. Bell, this is Dixon, Illinois.
[01:40:47]  I'm listening to Sterling WSDR.
[01:40:50]  WSDR, yes.
[01:40:52]  We have 20 below zero without the wind child actor.
[01:40:58]  Oh, my gosh.
[01:40:59]  Lucky you.
[01:41:01]  20 below zero.
[01:41:03]  And you know what else is beginning to happen that's very threatening?
[01:41:06]  I mean, electrical power is beginning to be threatened.
[01:41:10]  Yes, our power is often on and out.
[01:41:15]  On and off, huh?
[01:41:16]  Yes.
[01:41:17]  And it is so nice to talk to you.
[01:41:19]  I tried for over a year to get you.
[01:41:22]  A year?
[01:41:23]  Yes, every night.
[01:41:25]  Yeah.
[01:41:26]  You really ought not say that.
[01:41:28]  Why?
[01:41:29]  Well, because it discourages people.
[01:41:31]  No, no.
[01:41:33]  I'm happy to talk to you.
[01:41:35]  You're such an interesting man.
[01:41:37]  And you're right.
[01:41:38]  We are quickening.
[01:41:40]  Oh, yes, we are.
[01:41:42]  I can feel my hair standing up in the back like you.
[01:41:45]  Yes.
[01:41:46]  Yes.
[01:41:47]  Yes, there are many times I feel that.
[01:41:49]  And it is coming because I have connection to Germany.
[01:41:53]  I was born and raised there.
[01:41:55]  I would have guessed that.
[01:41:57]  I was born and raised there, and it is coming.
[01:42:02]  What is going on over there?
[01:42:03]  You have no idea.
[01:42:04]  I have connections over there.
[01:42:06]  Well, I'm going to be in Germany here this summer.
[01:42:08]  So I'm going to go take a look.
[01:42:11]  Yes, you better take a look because it's a beautiful country.
[01:42:16]  Yes, it is.
[01:42:17]  I've seen some photos and I'm looking forward to it.
[01:42:20]  It is a beautiful country.
[01:42:22]  And it's so nice talking to you.
[01:42:24]  You're an excellent entertainer.
[01:42:27]  And please keep your program.
[01:42:29]  All right.
[01:42:30]  Thank you.
[01:42:30]  Well, I'd like that too.
[01:42:31]  Thank you very much.
[01:42:32]  And I am looking forward to visiting Germany.
[01:42:36]  It's really going to be a good cruise.
[01:42:37]  I hope you guys get the brochure and come along.
[01:42:41]  It's going to be a lot of fun.
[01:42:43]  And, you know, need it after a while, I suppose.
[01:42:47]  Much as I love doing this, every now and then I've got to be yanked away from it by the scruff of my neck for my own good, I suppose.
[01:42:57]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:43:00]  Yes.
[01:43:00]  Yes, have you ever heard of the organization called 800 Fair Tax?
[01:43:05]  No.
[01:43:06]  Sounds like a phone number.
[01:43:08]  It's an organization, you know.
[01:43:11]  Yeah, that must be the phone number, though, right?
[01:43:14]  Well, the phone number is the same as the name of the organization.
[01:43:17]  Yeah, I knew you got a sneaky way to get their phone number in.
[01:43:20]  And have you heard about the company that's making cameras that photograph the aura?
[01:43:26]  As a matter of fact, I have, yes.
[01:43:27]  Yes.
[01:43:29]  Yes, you have.
[01:43:29]  Oh, good.
[01:43:30]  Would you like their number?
[01:43:32]  No.
[01:43:32]  They have a toll-free number.
[01:43:33]  No, no, no, no.
[01:43:34]  Huh?
[01:43:34]  No.
[01:43:35]  Would be interesting.
[01:43:36]  I mean, if you want to send it to me privately, fine.
[01:43:38]  If you could interview them on your show.
[01:43:40]  I see.
[01:43:40]  Well, send it to me privately.
[01:43:42]  And if you could interview the fair tax people on your show.
[01:43:45]  Yeah?
[01:43:46]  You know?
[01:43:46]  Well, I could.
[01:43:47]  Yeah, it's a one.
[01:43:50]  We really need it to change this country around.
[01:43:52]  Well, how about a flat tax?
[01:43:53]  That seems fair.
[01:43:54]  It is definitely the lowest flat tax yet.
[01:43:57]  Well, you mean lower than 17%.
[01:44:00]  Oh, definitely.
[01:44:02]  How can it be and be revenue neutral?
[01:44:04]  It is.
[01:44:06]  I'm actually more than I can.
[01:44:08]  No, you do it.
[01:44:08]  They've explained it to you so much that you're interested, so you explained it to me how.
[01:44:15]  It'll increase jobs.
[01:44:17]  It'll give the internet.
[01:44:19]  Slow down.
[01:44:20]  Slow down.
[01:44:21]  I said revenue neutral.
[01:44:23]  If you're going to say flat tax, replace the current system, you've got to come up with a revenue-neutral number.
[01:44:28]  In other words, produce the same amount of money.
[01:44:34]  Not on a wish and a hope.
[01:44:35]  There'll be more jobs.
[01:44:37]  You've got to actually prove it.
[01:44:38]  1% on everything.
[01:44:40]  1% on everything.
[01:44:42]  Yeah, fair tax.
[01:44:44]  No.
[01:44:45]  The 800 Fair Tax Organization.
[01:44:47]  All right.
[01:44:47]  Well, that's enough plugs.
[01:44:49]  Thanks.
[01:44:52]  I don't think 1% on everything would do much of anything.
[01:44:56]  That's just my view.
[01:44:58]  We've got a lot more than 1% on most everything now.
[01:45:02]  And still, we are falling behind.
[01:45:06]  We have a deficit.
[01:45:08]  Bill Clinton brags he's cut it in half.
[01:45:11]  That means, if he's correct, and that's arguable, that we are going in debt half as fast as we were the year before.
[01:45:20]  Doesn't mean we're cutting down the debt.
[01:45:22]  It means we're going into debt at half the speed.
[01:45:26]  That seems to be something people don't get.
[01:45:28]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[01:45:30]  Hi.
[01:45:30]  All right.
[01:45:31]  One heck of a pleasure.
[01:45:33]  Glad to have you.
[01:45:34]  Where are you?
[01:45:35]  Mission Hills, California.
[01:45:36]  My name is Jim.
[01:45:37]  Hi, Jim.
[01:45:38]  I'm a CPA.
[01:45:40]  I actually ran some figures last night to figure out the flat tax.
[01:45:43]  Right?
[01:45:44]  I used $13,000 for a married couple or couple and $5,000 per $13,000 total income?
[01:45:53]  No, $13,000 as a deduction.
[01:45:55]  Oh, I see.
[01:45:56]  All right.
[01:45:56]  And as I think you suggested, and $5,000 per child.
[01:46:01]  Right.
[01:46:05]  I could get the figures, but it's a crooked deal.
[01:46:10]  Well, unless you have the figures, I think it's unfair of you to say that.
[01:46:15]  You said you're an accountant, so give me the right now.
[01:46:21]  Can you put me on hold?
[01:46:22]  Yeah.
[01:46:23]  Of course I can.
[01:46:24]  I have some interesting figures.
[01:46:26]  I'm putting you on hold now.
[01:46:28]  And I will come back to you in a moment.
[01:46:29]  Yeah, I mean, it seems very unfair, without coming back with the numbers, to simply come on and say crooked.
[01:46:38]  At least that's my take.
[01:46:40]  All right, we will take a quick break and give this guy a chance to get his numbers.
[01:47:04]  Now, back to the man with the numbers.
[01:47:07]  All right, I'm here.
[01:47:08]  All right, go ahead, sir.
[01:47:10]  I tried to get some kind of range out of the clients I had, you know, from call it, you know, poor to rich.
[01:47:20]  Yeah.
[01:47:21]  From an unmarried woman with one child, AGI, adjusTedros income, $14, $500.
[01:47:35]  Yes.
[01:47:36]  To a retired attorney with a currently adjusTedros income of about $95,000 doesn't work.
[01:47:47]  What doesn't work?
[01:47:49]  He doesn't work, the retired attorney.
[01:47:52]  Oh, he doesn't work.
[01:47:53]  I'm trying to say the range.
[01:47:54]  I see.
[01:47:54]  Okay, I've got that.
[01:47:55]  Yes.
[01:47:55]  Okay.
[01:47:56]  Yes, yes.
[01:47:58]  And what?
[01:47:59]  And I've got about six people in between.
[01:48:01]  Okay.
[01:48:04]  Figures can bore people.
[01:48:06]  I used a...
[01:48:08]  Bore me a little.
[01:48:09]  Pardon?
[01:48:10]  I said bore me a little.
[01:48:11]  Come on, sir.
[01:48:11]  Get to it.
[01:48:12]  Give me the numbers.
[01:48:13]  Okay.
[01:48:14]  I used $13,000 as a deduction against adjusTedros income how it's currently calculated.
[01:48:24]  Do you understand that?
[01:48:24]  Yes.
[01:48:27]  Less $13,000 for a married couple and $5,000 per child.
[01:48:32]  Yes.
[01:48:33]  And if they were single, I just used $5,000 for a single person.
[01:48:38]  They got a $5,000 deduction.
[01:48:40]  However, I thought they would get a $13,000.
[01:48:44]  Pardon?
[01:48:44]  A single person would get $13,000, right?
[01:48:47]  No.
[01:48:48]  Single deduction for themselves and $5,000 for the children?
[01:48:52]  Isn't that what you just said?
[01:48:53]  No, a married couple gets $13,000.
[01:48:56]  Oh, I see, all right.
[01:48:56]  Two people.
[01:48:58]  they're married.
[01:48:59]  Okay, so the bottom line is?
[01:49:01]  The bottom line was people that make the most money And the people that are, every single one of them went up who was in a actually an extreme.
[01:49:20]  My dog's barking.
[01:49:22]  Don't look, sir.
[01:49:24]  Your dog is probably objecting to your lack of getting to the bottom line here.
[01:49:32]  Mr. Forbes has no business coming on the scene.
[01:49:38]  Sure, he does.
[01:49:39]  Well, he has business coming on the scene.
[01:49:42]  Yes, all right.
[01:49:43]  Well, I've about had enough.
[01:49:44]  Thank you.
[01:49:45]  He was going to come back and give us real numbers, and we didn't get real numbers, and I don't believe you have them, sir, and I don't believe you went anywhere to get them because you didn't give them to us.
[01:49:54]  You gave us the typical anti-flat tax argument, not based on real numbers, and you didn't give us real numbers.
[01:50:03]  You said, well, all the poor people lost, and all the rich people did real well.
[01:50:09]  Well, some of that's going to be true.
[01:50:12]  I think everybody will benefit.
[01:50:14]  I think the middle class will pay roughly the same amount.
[01:50:17]  Poor people will pay much less.
[01:50:20]  Rich people will pay much less.
[01:50:22]  Now, that does bulge it, of course, into the middle class.
[01:50:26]  Arguably it does, but that is where all the money comes from anyway.
[01:50:32]  And the bureaucracy and the size of the IRS and the collection agency and the whole mess, the whole range of deductions that allow the rich to skate anyway, all of that can be done away with along with the bureaucracy.
[01:50:48]  No, I'm a fan of the flat tax.
[01:50:50]  And I have yet to have anybody prove to me it is a bad idea.
[01:50:55]  And I've seen people taking shots at Forbes, but also without specific numbers saying it will not work.
[01:51:02]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:51:06]  Hello.
[01:51:07]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:51:09]  Good morning.
[01:51:10]  Well, good morning, Art.
[01:51:11]  This is Jeremiah from Evans, Colorado.
[01:51:13]  Jeremiah.
[01:51:13]  Yeah, I got three things to talk about.
[01:51:15]  First, a flat tax, real quick.
[01:51:17]  Yes.
[01:51:18]  It doesn't work in SimCity.
[01:51:20]  I can't understand why it'd work anywhere else.
[01:51:22]  Well, Jeremiah, you need to pull your head out of SimCity.
[01:51:26]  I agree.
[01:51:27]  On your video telephone thing?
[01:51:29]  Yes.
[01:51:29]  What happens if you reach an answering machine?
[01:51:34]  Then you get an answering machine.
[01:51:36]  I mean, could you get it on?
[01:51:36]  If your video phone isn't on, then it isn't on.
[01:51:39]  Oh, really?
[01:51:40]  So you couldn't compress the signal onto a regular audio cassette, could you?
[01:51:44]  No.
[01:51:44]  Oh, that's too bad.
[01:51:46]  Also, with environmentalists, maybe an environmentalist could call up and explain to me why it's actually vegetarians, I guess, why it's okay to eat fish, but it's not okay to eat a dolphin.
[01:51:58]  So you can kill a fish, but you can't kill a cat or this or that, you know?
[01:52:01]  You can eat a dolphin.
[01:52:03]  Oh, of course.
[01:52:03]  I think they taste kind of nasty myself.

=== Why Change the Presidential Age? (08:41) ===

[01:52:06]  Have you eaten Jeremiah?
[01:52:09]  You've had dolphin?
[01:52:10]  Yeah.
[01:52:11]  I'm shocked.
[01:52:13]  You are?
[01:52:14]  Yes.
[01:52:15]  I don't know.
[01:52:15]  I think they're repulsive.
[01:52:16]  They're probably what gives two notes flavor, though.
[01:52:21]  I think there should be a Constitutional Convention.
[01:52:25]  Why?
[01:52:26]  I think they should change the part of the presidential race where it says you've got to be 35.
[01:52:30]  Yeah.
[01:52:30]  They should lower it by 20 years.
[01:52:32]  Really?
[01:52:32]  Yeah.
[01:52:33]  So you could run?
[01:52:34]  Yeah, I think I could do that.
[01:52:35]  And what would Jeremiah's 15-year-old platform be?
[01:52:39]  Go back to the Constitution.
[01:52:41]  No, just forget about all this political garbage.
[01:52:43]  All right.
[01:52:44]  Thanks, Jeremiah.
[01:52:45]  Simplistic thinking, I would say, for somebody who just recommended a Constitutional Convention.
[01:52:51]  Go back to what Constitution?
[01:52:52]  After the convention, Jeremiah, there wouldn't be much left to go back to.
[01:52:55]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[01:52:57]  Aloha, Art.
[01:52:59]  Oh, Hawaii.
[01:53:00]  How you doing?
[01:53:00]  How are you doing this evening?
[01:53:02]  Land of the to-be-site same-sex marriages, huh?
[01:53:05]  Well, no, that got blown out.
[01:53:07]  That's not what I'm...
[01:53:08]  They shut that down in the Senate.
[01:53:10]  It's not, oh, but it's not done, though.
[01:53:13]  Well, they're trying to breathe some air into it, but the legislate said no, and they're trying to pass a bill to ban it permanently.
[01:53:20]  Really?
[01:53:21]  That's where the fight is.
[01:53:22]  Yeah, they threw it out.
[01:53:23]  I see.
[01:53:24]  Yeah, so that's good news for people like us, I guess.
[01:53:28]  I guess, yes.
[01:53:29]  Hey, my friend, I wanted to call you because who's going to be on tomorrow night?
[01:53:33]  This Mayan or Mayan I got to know because my son is part Mayan.
[01:53:39]  I want to listen to this.
[01:53:40]  Really?
[01:53:41]  Well, this is not a Mayan person who is going to be on.
[01:53:45]  This is somebody who is going to be talking about her name is Krishana.
[01:53:49]  At least I don't think she's Mayan.
[01:53:51]  What do I know?
[01:53:51]  Maybe she is.
[01:53:52]  And she's going to be talking about the Mayan calendar and about America's future, the world's future, as a matter of fact.
[01:54:01]  And so you don't want to miss that.
[01:54:03]  About 11 o'clock tomorrow night.
[01:54:04]  No, I don't want to miss it.
[01:54:06]  And when I was down in Belize in Ambergas Key, we picked up on the skip down there.
[01:54:11]  In Belize?
[01:54:12]  In Belize, Central America.
[01:54:14]  Yep.
[01:54:15]  Well, that's what I keep telling people.
[01:54:16]  We go down there, and so you can hear us.
[01:54:18]  How long ago was that?
[01:54:19]  I was down there over Christmas and New Year holiday.
[01:54:22]  My wife and my son live down there.
[01:54:24]  I wish you had called me from Belize.
[01:54:27]  Well, I'm too busy playing with my little boy.
[01:54:30]  Yeah, I understand.
[01:54:32]  Yeah, so hey, you've got to get down there sometime because there's a lot of ruins down there, Mayan ruins, and they've got a big calendar out at Terracol, the one out by Coppola's place.
[01:54:41]  Well, I've been thinking of going down to Cusco in Peru.
[01:54:45]  Mm-hmm.
[01:54:46]  Oh, you're going to want to go up there to what's the name of that, Inca?
[01:54:53]  In the ruins up there?
[01:54:54]  Yes, oh, yes.
[01:54:55]  Oh, yeah.
[01:54:56]  All right, sir.
[01:54:57]  Thank you.
[01:54:57]  See, we're heard in Belize.
[01:54:58]  Listen to us in Belize.
[01:55:00]  Hello, down in Belize.
[01:55:01]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:55:03]  Hello.
[01:55:04]  Good morning, Art Gary from Santa Rosa.
[01:55:06]  Hi, Gary.
[01:55:06]  I can't explain the earned income tax credit.
[01:55:09]  It's a credit that you get back from the government, but only if you work.
[01:55:13]  And the more you work up to a certain point, the more you get back.
[01:55:17]  Remember, poor people do pay taxes called Social Security tax, excise tax, gasoline tax.
[01:55:24]  This is an attempt in part to hold them unharmed for all the other federal taxes they pay by giving them this credit, which, as I said, single people can get it, married people can get it.
[01:55:35]  A family of four earning $29,000 a year can't receive it.
[01:55:41]  It peaks out somewhere around $22,000.
[01:55:43]  Right.
[01:55:43]  A couple thousand dollars a year.
[01:55:45]  And it's paid for.
[01:55:46]  It was paid for, in fact, by the increase of the tax on the highest bracket.
[01:55:50]  Right.
[01:55:50]  So I think it's a great idea.
[01:55:51]  It encourages people who work.
[01:55:53]  If the whole point is to make non-work pay more than non-work, then you've got to reward them for working.
[01:55:58]  You know, can we give them at least that much?
[01:56:00]  I've got you.
[01:56:02]  Take care, Art.
[01:56:02]  All right.
[01:56:03]  Thank you very much for the help.
[01:56:05]  I don't think any of us fully understand this, and even our accountants don't fully understand it.
[01:56:10]  It has not been fully explained.
[01:56:14]  All I know is this.
[01:56:16]  I'm sure there are those who will have to, one way or another, be taken care of.
[01:56:21]  At the very low end, the disabled, those kinds of people, you can't let them begin to starve.
[01:56:28]  And there's got to be a way to eliminate the horrendous tax system we have now in the IRS and the bureaucracy and all of that and simplify the whole affair, tax what is now in the underground economy, which I am in favor of doing, and just simplifying the whole mess.
[01:56:48]  And that's what Forbes wants to do.
[01:56:50]  Now, there are those who may fall through the cracks, and that question is going to have to be addressed.
[01:56:56]  East of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[01:56:58]  Good morning.
[01:56:59]  Good morning, and greetings from Matt, the all-night studying, almost graduated college student in central Kansas.
[01:57:04]  How's it going, Art?
[01:57:05]  All right, Dorothy, country.
[01:57:07]  Yeah, wanted to ask you a couple of questions.
[01:57:11]  First off, you are on the air in Belize, and that's great because it looks like that's where I'm going to be going in the Peace Corps here in June, and I'll be able to listen to you down there.
[01:57:18]  Well, would you do me a big favor and try and call me at least once?
[01:57:22]  I certainly will.
[01:57:23]  I'm not actually leaving until September, and one of the things, the other thing I was going to say is I'm hoping to meet you because when I graduate, which is in May, we're looking at your cruise as a possible graduation gift.
[01:57:32]  My parents and I are thinking about going back here if I study.
[01:57:35]  Oh, that'll be a gift, all right.
[01:57:36]  Yeah, I studied in Russia two years ago, and I'm looking for I want to go back and see it and see some old friends.
[01:57:43]  Well, I'm told St. Petersburg, which is where the cruise ship is going, is beautiful, the most beautiful place you can see in Russia.
[01:57:51]  But then I'm debating whether I should get on a plane and go to Moscow.
[01:57:55]  I kind of want to see Moscow.
[01:57:57]  I know it's dark and sinister and scary, and the mobs there, the Russian mob and all that, but I want to see it.
[01:58:03]  It's incredible.
[01:58:05]  I studied in St. Petersburg, and I was there in the middle of winter, so I can't wait to see it in the middle of summer when it's all going to be lit up, and it'll be light most of the time instead of dark.
[01:58:13]  But Moscow is just incredible.
[01:58:16]  And I mean, of course, I was there right before October.
[01:58:20]  I was there in 93, from January to May of 93.
[01:58:25]  So this was before the coup happened, and so it was a little different.
[01:58:28]  So Moscow is a little bit more scary than it was even when I was there.
[01:58:32]  Right.
[01:58:33]  One quick question, though, I do have for you, and I'll hang up and get your answer.
[01:58:36]  You're in Nevada, and what are your thoughts on riverboat gambling?
[01:58:40]  That's becoming quite an issue here in the Midwest, and it's something that it's going into debate.
[01:58:45]  And one of my professors was talking about it in class.
[01:58:47]  Well, I'm against it for Nevada.
[01:58:49]  I'm sure that's the difference.
[01:58:51]  We don't have a lot of games.
[01:58:52]  You don't need it, do you?
[01:58:53]  No, we don't need it here.
[01:58:54]  But as for your area, well, well, he's gone.
[01:58:58]  As for other areas, I'm against it.
[01:59:03]  You know, it's not moral.
[01:59:05]  I think you people really ought to think about this before you indulge it, before you allow it to occur in your area.
[01:59:11]  Who knows what kind of stuff it might bring with it?
[01:59:16]  Think of how it might erode your morals to have gambling in your area.
[01:59:21]  There's only one place where gambling ought to be, and that's in Nevada.
[01:59:25]  They ought to even outlaw New Jersey, as far as I'm concerned.
[01:59:28]  You see, here in Nevada, we have no income tax.
[01:59:32]  State income tax.
[01:59:33]  You know why?
[01:59:34]  Because of gambling.
[01:59:37]  Because of all the Californians and all the rest of you that come into Nevada and leave with us sufficient revenue so the state does not have to reach into our pockets.
[01:59:48]  And so, as far as I'm concerned, in every other place but here, it's immoral and wrong and should be outlawed, shouldn't be on the rivers, shouldn't have it on the Native American reservations.
[02:00:02]  I am against gambling anywhere in America, but right here, where it works very well, thank you.
[02:00:13]  You asked.
[02:00:14]  We'll be back.
[02:00:15]  You're listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[02:00:19]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[02:00:25]  Somewhere in Time with Art Bell continues, courtesy of Premier Network.

=== Gold's Rise and Risks (15:51) ===

[02:00:41]  It's good to be here.
[02:00:42]  It's a fine morning in the desert.
[02:00:44]  The rain has kind of cleared out.
[02:00:46]  We're hoping to have a nice sunny day today.
[02:00:50]  I was hoping for a little desert sun for my mom, who's here from the northeast, which is preparing to get hit again.
[02:00:58]  But before she goes, hopefully today in the weekend, we'll be that.
[02:01:02]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:01:04]  Hi.
[02:01:04]  Hi, Art.
[02:01:05]  This is Barb from Valdez Como Country.
[02:01:08]  Hello, Barb.
[02:01:09]  I haven't talked to you for about a year.
[02:01:11]  About that long.
[02:01:12]  Yeah, it's pretty cold up here, too.
[02:01:14]  That's what I've heard.
[02:01:16]  I saw on the news where one degree was the record in 1950.
[02:01:21]  Wow.
[02:01:22]  Well, that's 45 years ago or so now.
[02:01:25]  Right.
[02:01:25]  Well, anyway, are you tired of Forbes and gold, or do you want my comments?
[02:01:29]  Hey, you talk about anything you want to talk about.
[02:01:32]  Well, I'm sitting here looking at futures prices.
[02:01:34]  Uh-huh.
[02:01:35]  And so I'm looking at the whole array.
[02:01:38]  Futures, of course, are very volatile, but what I'm watching carefully is gold.
[02:01:43]  Okay, well, I have the cash prices, too, for all the, you know, whether it's bullion production or whether it's jewelry or fabrication or whatever they want.
[02:01:51]  Right.
[02:01:51]  Well, it's all right now the you know gold is going up and I'm trying to figure out why.
[02:01:58]  Here's an explanation in this morning's Wall Street if you want to pick it up.
[02:02:01]  Yeah, sure.
[02:02:03]  They're saying that the cost to produce, as it borrowing it to hedge yourself forward, future production went up three months ago.
[02:02:11]  And so that increased cost plus the lowered interest rates that caused gold go up.
[02:02:16]  Well, I look at it differently.
[02:02:17]  I think really they've not been mining much because it didn't bring much.
[02:02:21]  So now the supplies are down and that's going to boost it up.
[02:02:24]  But the interesting thing is the other day I happened to say to my person at one of the banks I deal with, hey, what do you hear about the new money?
[02:02:34]  Funny thing, we saw a video on it the other day.
[02:02:37]  So I said, well, is it colored?
[02:02:39]  And they said, no, it looks green until you hold it up under a light and then you see the colors.
[02:02:46]  Right.
[02:02:47]  And the $100 denomination.
[02:02:49]  Right.
[02:02:49]  Well, now, was that on your program, or was it something else I listened to where the Russians are furious because they have over $200?
[02:02:58]  No, that's my program.
[02:02:59]  Yeah, and they're very angry over this.
[02:03:02]  New money.
[02:03:02]  That's right.
[02:03:04]  I'm kind of a cynic.
[02:03:05]  You know what it makes me think?
[02:03:06]  What?
[02:03:07]  They've been printing it in the basement, so to speak, and now it's not going to be worth anything.
[02:03:12]  Well, I don't know.
[02:03:13]  I'm a little bit cynical about the whole thing, Barb.
[02:03:16]  Thank you very much for the call.
[02:03:17]  Good to hear from you again.
[02:03:21]  I'm not sure whether the rise, I don't think I can attribute the rise in the price of gold to production limits in production.
[02:03:29]  I don't believe that.
[02:03:30]  I believe that the rise in the price of gold is because there's a lot of nervousness with regard to the underlying economy.
[02:03:40]  Even though, as a general rule, when the market rises rapidly, gold falls because people are investing in the market.
[02:03:48]  They're not scared.
[02:03:49]  They're jumping into the market.
[02:03:51]  But now we have a situation where the market is rising and the price of gold is rising.
[02:03:57]  And unlike Barb, I think I believe that there are a lot of people out there, enough apparently, who believe there's an underlying problem.
[02:04:09]  It's not to say our economy is a total disaster, but they're worried about the debt and the new money.
[02:04:17]  And they ought to be.
[02:04:18]  And whatever changes that's going to bring, gold would sort of abridge the gap to the other side, as it were.
[02:04:32]  And I think that accounts for the rise in gold.
[02:04:35]  Production may have something to do with it, but that's a big hike.
[02:04:38]  Wildcard line, you're on the air.
[02:04:41]  Yes.
[02:04:41]  Good morning, Art.
[02:04:42]  Good morning.
[02:04:44]  On the Forbes, a couple of nights ago, I was listening to one of the talk shows on television, and they were talking with him, and he said that there's a $10,000 deduction for each parent, and then a $5,000 deduction for each child.
[02:04:59]  So a husband and wife with two children would have a $30,000 deduction before there was any tax, and then above the $30,000, it would be 17%.
[02:05:09]  See, that's how that would depend.
[02:05:10]  You know, a guy making $40,000 would come out fairly well.
[02:05:13]  It sure seems that way, doesn't it?
[02:05:15]  Yes, it does.
[02:05:16]  Now, I've heard something on gold.
[02:05:19]  I can't remember where I heard it or read it or wherever, that they had chemically figured out a way to make lead into gold, and it acted like it and all kinds of things, except when you actually ran an assay on it, it still come up and said lead.
[02:05:36]  I don't know how true that is.
[02:05:37]  I know that's been a dream of chemists and alchemists for a lot of years.
[02:05:41]  Yes, yes.
[02:05:42]  So I don't know whether that's true or not, but when you buy gold, be careful.
[02:05:46]  Make sure you've got a good assay on it.
[02:05:48]  Well, that's why I like gold coins.
[02:05:52]  $20 U.S. gold pieces are a safe buy.
[02:05:56]  You know, they're a good, solid ounce of verifiable real gold.
[02:06:02]  Well, what I would like, I've got a few silver dollars, not the old ones that are worth a lot of money or anything, but the newly minted ones that were minted in 1984.
[02:06:13]  And I think that if things really got tough and you had to spend this as money, they would be a lot easier to handle than would gold because gold would skyrocket so much.
[02:06:22]  And if all you wanted to buy was some chicken and some bread or something, you'd have a hard time with a $1,600 ounce of gold.
[02:06:30]  So I would think that you need to have a little bit of silver that's a little less expensive and a little bit easier to stay.
[02:06:36]  Well, I guess it couldn't hurt, but people seem to run to gold.
[02:06:39]  And if you look at the price rise right now in silver compared to gold, it's barely moved.
[02:06:45]  That's true.
[02:06:46]  But I mean, you know, for availability to have something that you can find, you might want to have some silver around.
[02:06:51]  No, that's right.
[02:06:52]  I'm sure you do.
[02:06:53]  Thank you very much.
[02:06:54]  That's well said.
[02:06:55]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[02:06:57]  Hi.
[02:06:58]  Hi, Art.
[02:07:01]  I had a plan for you there.
[02:07:03]  How about 10% for individuals, which would not be taxed on food, medical needs, medical supplies, et cetera, and a 20% on corporations and a 30% tariff flat across the board on all products imported into the U.S.
[02:07:27]  Then we would have a trade war.
[02:07:29]  Well, just the simple question.
[02:07:32]  I'm an economics and finance.
[02:07:33]  Well, I'll give you a simple answer.
[02:07:35]  We'd have a trade war.
[02:07:36]  You'd slap 30% on, everybody else will, too, and we'll have a trade war.
[02:07:40]  How would that help anybody?
[02:07:42]  Well, we might.
[02:07:44]  We might not.
[02:07:46]  Again, the tax would be being paid by U.S. individuals, yes, and that would discourage purchase of foreign goods, and they may threaten to do the same thing.
[02:07:56]  But Japan, right now, my brother-in-law lives in Japan, and they basically do that to us right now and have, and we've been running in trade deficits.
[02:08:04]  Well, now I am in favor of doing what Clinton almost had the body parts to do, and that is raising import taxes here until they lower theirs.
[02:08:16]  That would be fine, but it has a lot of long-term benefits.
[02:08:20]  I mean, a 30%.
[02:08:21]  No, it doesn't.
[02:08:22]  Well, since we're running a deficit already, even if we lost the foreign trade, you're looking at $700 billion right there, according to the U.S., you know, what's been published in the $700 billion range.
[02:08:35]  Okay, even if you lost that, since we're running a deficit, you would still, I mean, the U.S. consumer is such that there is a fair amount of people out there who would be willing to pay the 30%.
[02:08:52]  So you wouldn't really lose all that.
[02:08:53]  I mean, you would only lose probably about 25% of it.
[02:08:58]  No, I am.
[02:08:59]  Which equates to about the deficit we've been running, and all of those dollars are leaving the country anyway and doing us no good in this country.
[02:09:07]  All right, sir.
[02:09:07]  I appreciate your call, but I disagree with your premise.
[02:09:11]  I am very, very much interested in continuing to expand, not contract trade.
[02:09:19]  But I want fair trade.
[02:09:22]  And as long as it is fair trade, then everybody ultimately is going to profit.
[02:09:28]  We are.
[02:09:29]  They are the big they, the Japanese, the Mexicans, the Canadians.
[02:09:36]  I'm a believer in trade.
[02:09:41]  That is how we have become what we are.
[02:09:45]  We began as little villages.
[02:09:47]  We traded with each other.
[02:09:50]  We were enriched by it.
[02:09:53]  Then we became bigger villages and cities and traded with each other and became richer.
[02:09:59]  And then states traded with each other.
[02:10:03]  Then international trade came along.
[02:10:06]  And slowly the standard of living in the world rose.
[02:10:14]  And so I'm a believer in trade.
[02:10:17]  Now, the Japanese don't play fair, and so I would, if I was president of the U.S., I would have gone and done what the president threatened to do, but didn't have the right body parts to do.
[02:10:27]  He should have raised the tariffs until they cried, Uncle, Sam.
[02:10:35]  Then we'd have fair trade, free trade.
[02:10:38]  Everybody'd be richer.
[02:10:41]  Well, this is a good time.
[02:10:43]  Look, North American Trading sells gold coins for the most part, silver as well, but mostly gold.
[02:10:52]  And I've been preaching about the new money, about the economy, about the price of gold for a long time now.
[02:11:00]  Now, all of a sudden, the people that took my advice are significantly richer because the price of gold has gone up.
[02:11:09]  You're making money, aren't you?
[02:11:13]  Well, I bet that it's going to go up more.
[02:11:16]  It's a bet.
[02:11:17]  It's an investment.
[02:11:19]  But gold is a pretty safe bet, you know?
[02:11:40]  Let's go to the first time caller line.
[02:11:43]  You're on the air.
[02:11:44]  Good morning.
[02:11:45]  First question, after all these years in radio, what is it you still enjoy most of it?
[02:11:49]  Doing this show.
[02:11:51]  What about your show is it that you enjoy the most?
[02:11:55]  The unexpectedness of it.
[02:11:58]  You know, if you've been listening for a long time, you know that we rarely do the same thing night after night.
[02:12:06]  It's a good question.
[02:12:07]  Thank you.
[02:12:09]  I'm glad you asked.
[02:12:12]  And that is the answer.
[02:12:13]  Really, that is the answer.
[02:12:14]  What do I enjoy most about being in radio is doing this show, this particular program.
[02:12:20]  I love it because it is never the same.
[02:12:23]  Now, this morning we're in a broad discussion about the flat tax and Forbes and politics, but we as easily could be off onto something totally different, and it varies day to day to day.
[02:12:33]  And I am absolutely more than ever convinced, particularly after this last round of surveys that have come in, that a broader scope in talk radio is being well received by the American public.
[02:12:50]  Now, there are many times that it is appropriate to talk about the government, or to talk about tax, or to talk about the presidential race.
[02:12:59]  But to do so day after day after day, relentlessly, or to even be bashing the Clintons relentlessly, day after day after day, is not only, well, to me, it's boring.
[02:13:14]  All right?
[02:13:15]  If Bill Clinton does something that drives me up a tree, I'll come after him that day.
[02:13:20]  If he does something I agree with, fairly rare, I'll say so.
[02:13:24]  Otherwise, I'll leave it alone, and there are other things in life, some of them more important, frankly, than the machinations of the day's politics, and so I talk about them on this program.
[02:13:38]  And that's what I love about it.
[02:13:40]  The fact that I've been able to do it and that it is being accepted and that hopefully it will drive other talk show hosts around the country to realize they don't have to be Rush Limbaugh bots and follow in his little footsteps or excuse me, big footsteps and talk about nothing but politics day after day after day.
[02:14:05]  If there is anything right now, talk radio is the number one format in the nation.
[02:14:11]  And if it doesn't change, it will not hold on to that mantle.
[02:14:18]  It will lose it.
[02:14:19]  And the change is, you know, people became enlightened and said, my gosh, we can talk about these things on the air.
[02:14:27]  And now they've discovered programs like this where even other aspects of life can be discussed on the air.
[02:14:35]  And it's working.
[02:14:37]  So what do I like about it?
[02:14:38]  I like doing it.
[02:14:39]  I like this free form of talk radio.
[02:14:43]  I like unscreen calls.
[02:14:45]  I like the unexpected.
[02:14:46]  So that's the answer.
[02:14:48]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[02:14:51]  Yes, hi.
[02:14:51]  Hi.
[02:14:52]  I'm calling from Phoenix.
[02:14:54]  My name's Ernie.
[02:14:54]  Hi, Ernie.
[02:14:55]  I'm kind of glad to get through.
[02:14:57]  I was just calling to tell you, a few days ago on a local radio talk show here in Phoenix, there's a fellow by the name of Bob Mohan Show.
[02:15:07]  Oh, I know Bob.
[02:15:08]  Yeah, he had a guest on there that I was just, it occurred to me, he had said one time in his show that he'd wanted to talk to you.
[02:15:18]  But anyway, he had a guest on there who gave classes.
[02:15:22]  He was a kind of a prevailing liberal kind of guy, and he gave classes to people who talked, who called radio talk shows.
[02:15:32]  You're kidding.
[02:15:33]  No, no, no, no.
[02:15:34]  And I was calling you to tell you this because I've heard on your show this Charlie character a couple times.
[02:15:39]  You think he's a graduate of the class of 70 or something?
[02:15:42]  Well, I would bet money he's probably taking this class.
[02:15:47]  And I thought of that, you know, and I was just a few days ago.
[02:15:49]  You might want to call him and get this guy's name or something.
[02:15:52]  That's funny.
[02:15:54]  How did Mohan treat him?
[02:15:56]  Oh, real nice.
[02:15:57]  You know, he has people who disagree with him quite often on there.
[02:16:02]  I know.
[02:16:02]  Oh, I like Mohan.
[02:16:03]  He's a nice guy.
[02:16:04]  It's a good show.
[02:16:06]  And he had this guy on there, and he was doing the same thing.

=== Call Your Show Equipment (01:38) ===

[02:16:09]  And they're taught to raise their voices and keep talking faster.
[02:16:15]  Right.
[02:16:15]  And exactly what this character, Call Your Show, does, this Charlie character.
[02:16:20]  And I thought, you know, I bet that guy's got a great.
[02:16:23]  And also, isn't there some sort of piece of equipment that these guys get that they can get into your show easier?
[02:16:29]  No.
[02:16:30]  Well, I mean, you can get speed dialers, that kind of thing.
[02:16:33]  Some sort of equipment that will speed dials.
[02:16:35]  There are some that will sit at phone banks and keep dialing on several lines until they get through.
[02:16:42]  That sort of thing.
[02:16:43]  Yeah, that's probably something like that.
[02:16:44]  I don't mean somebody finances that for him or something.
[02:16:49]  Well, I don't know.
[02:16:50]  I could spend the whole night talking with you about different stuff, but you've got to go.
[02:16:53]  Well, I've never heard of what you just said, but it does make sense.
[02:16:56]  Has anybody else heard about that?
[02:16:58]  Bob Mohan had a guest, huh?
[02:17:01]  Who teaches people how to be a good liberal talk show caller?
[02:17:11]  Yeah, I'd like to have that fellow on.
[02:17:12]  That sounds like fun.
[02:17:14]  He instructs them in the ways of liberal arguments on talk shows.
[02:17:24]  I can think of several probable graduates.
[02:17:26]  West of the Rockies, you're on the air.
[02:17:29]  Let me get the radio here.

=== Internet Censorship Concerns (15:32) ===

[02:17:30]  Yes, get the radio there.
[02:17:32]  Okay.
[02:17:33]  What I'm calling about is you're talking about censorship on the Internet and how you're...
[02:17:38]  That's right.
[02:17:39]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[02:17:41]  I do not think that preventing...
[02:17:43]  Turn your radio off, please.
[02:17:45]  All right.
[02:17:46]  Turn me on the radio on in the other room.
[02:17:48]  Yeah, turn that damn radio in the other room off.
[02:17:52]  And I hate to say it, but if it's not off soon, there's going to be censorship here because I can't stay on the line with that radio on.
[02:17:59]  Okay, got the radio.
[02:18:00]  All right.
[02:18:01]  Okay, what my concern is, I'm an internet provider in Seattle.
[02:18:04]  Okay.
[02:18:05]  Okay.
[02:18:06]  Here's the basic problem.
[02:18:08]  The bill is calling for forms of censorship that are technologically impossible to implement.
[02:18:15]  I understand the desire to keep this material out of children, and I don't think that's an unreasonable desire.
[02:18:23]  But the Internet was developed for many years when it was just available to government and academia and the military.
[02:18:31]  There was no need to have mechanisms in it to the sensor, and now the technology isn't there yet.
[02:18:38]  And I am in a position now of either having to...
[02:18:42]  All right, then they will not be able to enforce it.
[02:18:44]  Let us assume let us assume that you as a provider, all right, that somebody passes pornography through your server.
[02:18:56]  All right, I don't think the feds are going to come knocking down your door.
[02:18:59]  They're going to come to you and they're going to try to find out the identification of the person who sent the pornography to the miner.
[02:19:07]  And you may be responsible for providing that.
[02:19:10]  If the bill was written such that it was just the provider of information, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
[02:19:16]  But in fact, it's not.
[02:19:18]  It very specifically puts the burden of censoring on the carrier.
[02:19:22]  And there's things like IRC, Internet Relay Chat.
[02:19:25]  You're aware of that.
[02:19:25]  They have a channel dedicated to you.
[02:19:27]  Yes, sir, but as you pointed out, it's technologically impossible.
[02:19:31]  So I know that.
[02:19:34]  No, you're not at risk.
[02:19:36]  If they technologically cannot prove that you knowingly, that's an important word, and that's in the bill, that you knowingly allowed the passage of this or encouraged it even, then they would prosecute you.
[02:19:51]  They can't do that.
[02:19:52]  But here's the problem.
[02:19:53]  There's something like IRC.
[02:19:54]  Now, by having IRC on the system, I know there's going to be pornographic material on that.
[02:20:00]  But my other option is to take it off, to take news off, because news will carry pornographic material from all over the world.
[02:20:08]  So I have no USET news, no IRC, take FTP, because somebody might FTP to another site, and I know that's going to happen if it's available.
[02:20:16]  So basically, by the time you eliminate everything that could fall into that category, you don't have a service left.
[02:20:23]  And I'm at risk now for a business that I've spent 12 years building up, now I have to worry about going to jail for just doing business.
[02:20:30]  I think you're overreacting.
[02:20:32]  Well, you're not in my position.
[02:20:34]  You're not the one at that risk.
[02:20:35]  No, but I am aware of what's going on, and I believe that you are overreacting to this.
[02:20:41]  Well, a lot of people feel the way I do about this.
[02:20:44]  I know that.
[02:20:44]  I know how they feel.
[02:20:46]  It's a bad situation for us.
[02:20:47]  It needs to be filled out.
[02:20:49]  All right.
[02:20:49]  I'll tell you what.
[02:20:50]  I'm at a breakpoint here, but I'm willing to hold you over.
[02:20:54]  So stay right there, will you?
[02:20:56]  Sure.
[02:20:56]  All right, good.
[02:20:58]  We're at the bottom of the hour, and we're talking about the new telecommunications bill and the provisions in it that are going to try to stop the passing of pornography to minors.
[02:21:11]  Will it end the internet as we know it?
[02:21:13]  I don't think so.
[02:21:14]  We'll be back.
[02:21:15]  The trip back in time continues.
[02:21:17]  With Art Bell hosting Coast to Coast AM.
[02:21:21]  More Somewhere in Time coming up.
[02:21:24]  Listening to Art Bell Somewhere in Time.
[02:21:40]  Tonight featuring Coast to Coast AM from February 1st, 1996.
[02:21:45]  All right.
[02:21:46]  We're going to talk a little bit about the Internet now.
[02:21:50]  And we've got an Internet provider on the line, and so he's a good guy to talk to.
[02:21:55]  Are you still there, sir?
[02:21:57]  Yes, I am.
[02:21:57]  Art?
[02:21:58]  All right.
[02:21:59]  Before you start out, we've got plenty of time.
[02:22:02]  I want to ask you a couple of questions.
[02:22:04]  Sure.
[02:22:04]  I presume, first of all, that you are not comfortable with the idea of child pornography being passed on the Internet, number one.
[02:22:13]  Absolutely.
[02:22:14]  All right, and you are not comfortable with the idea of pornography being passed to children on the Internet, number two, right?
[02:22:21]  I agree with that where the parents don't want it to happen.
[02:22:24]  I think that should be a parental decision, is my view on that.
[02:22:28]  Oh, I think society has an interest even beyond the parents if they're unwilling to take that responsibility.
[02:22:35]  One of the things you have to look at is that culturally different cultures have really different views.
[02:22:41]  Yes, in our culture, sir.
[02:22:43]  But our country is a mixture of different cultures.
[02:22:46]  Well, it does not distribute, nor should it, pornography to children.
[02:22:51]  Well, a parent can go into a 7-Eleven and buy a Playboy and do what they want with it.
[02:22:55]  And I think that the situation with the net, you know, a lot of times you look for parallels in other non-network areas.
[02:23:04]  If something's illegal in physical mail, then maybe you shouldn't do it on the net either by the same token.
[02:23:10]  Well, a lot of things that are totally illegal in physical mail are being done on the net, and you know it.
[02:23:18]  Well, they are, but they're also being done illegally in physical mail.
[02:23:22]  And people are being prosecuted for it as they should be.
[02:23:27]  Sir, as they should be.
[02:23:29]  I'm not arguing that point.
[02:23:30]  I agree with you.
[02:23:32]  Well, then, what would you do as the net guru if you were with regard to these problems?
[02:23:40]  How would you address the problems?
[02:23:42]  Well, my feeling is that right now, the technology isn't sufficient, and it's going to take time for it to become sufficient.
[02:23:50]  And you have to look at the amount of time that it developed over before it got into the mainstream public view and understand that you're going to need a developmental period that's in that realm.
[02:24:01]  Some problems are very difficult to solve.
[02:24:03]  Internet Relay Chat, as I started to mention, is a real-time service.
[02:24:09]  And how do you censor something in real-time without losing that spontaneity that's there?
[02:24:16]  You know, I mean, on a radio show like you have here, you have a tape delay.
[02:24:19]  So if somebody says a bad word, you can hit a button.
[02:24:22]  That's right.
[02:24:22]  That's right.
[02:24:23]  But in IRC, you don't have a delay, and you would really ruin the spontaneity because it's not just a two-people conversation and then going to the air.
[02:24:31]  It's a everybody can participate type situation at the same time.
[02:24:35]  In other words, it's not an audience.
[02:24:37]  I know how it works.
[02:24:38]  Okay, so there's problems that I don't see a good solution for there without saying that parents have to be involved with what their children's doing.
[02:24:47]  All right, let me give you a parallel.
[02:24:49]  All right?
[02:24:50]  Okay.
[02:24:51]  A better parallel.
[02:24:52]  In the amateur radio, ham radio world, we have what are called repeaters.
[02:24:58]  Right.
[02:24:58]  These repeaters are licensed to individuals.
[02:25:02]  Okay?
[02:25:03]  Okay.
[02:25:04]  The individuals who run these repeaters and have the license are ultimately responsible for that which goes over the air.
[02:25:13]  And if somebody gets on there abusing, swearing, cussing, doing whatever, the licensee is potentially in trouble, and the licensee is required to monitor as best they're able.
[02:25:26]  And the Federal Communications Commission is not arbitrary.
[02:25:30]  They don't come charging after people if the S word or the F word gets said occasionally.
[02:25:36]  But if it is an ongoing real problem, the Federal Communications Commission moves in and the guy might lose or lose the license or get fined.
[02:25:49]  Okay, here's the problem, though, that's different in the Internet.
[02:25:52]  The Internet has become the people's voice, the ability for people to talk to the masses, and it's become a method for people to form grassroots associations.
[02:26:04]  And there's a lot of politics that happen on the net.
[02:26:06]  Well, nobody wants to censor that.
[02:26:08]  Now, hang on a sec.
[02:26:09]  Now, you say that, but if you've got a situation where the laws are ambiguous, in other words, they say the carrier can be held for this, liable for this.
[02:26:18]  They didn't say a word about politics, sir.
[02:26:20]  It's not that ambiguous.
[02:26:21]  not let me finish here.
[02:26:22]  But if you take a position politically that's unpopular, they can then say, hey, but you're distributing pornography and come after you for that, even though that is not, you see what I'm saying?
[02:26:34]  It's a...
[02:26:35]  It's something where they can enforce the law arbitrarily.
[02:26:38]  And that gives them a tool to censor political views, even though that is not what the law was intended for.
[02:26:44]  I think that unless there is an aggravated, conscious effort to allow the passage of pornography, they're not going to come after you because they dislike you politically.
[02:26:54]  Well, see, you can take that view of the public.
[02:26:56]  I mean, after all, sir, after all, look, if somebody disliked you politically, they could come after you with the IRS, the FBI, the ATF, and a million other agencies.
[02:27:08]  Yeah, but with the IRS, I know that my taxes, I don't cheat on my taxes, I have records, I have an accountant that takes care of this stuff for me.
[02:27:15]  I know that they can audit me, but I'm not going to find anything.
[02:27:19]  And, sir, as an Internet provider, you can show that you did due diligence, due diligence, in trying to prevent the passage of pornography.
[02:27:30]  You did the best you could, and under those circumstances, they are not going to prosecute you.
[02:27:36]  I believe that's a lot harder to prove and a lot less cleaner of a situation than with paper-numbered tax records.
[02:27:43]  All right.
[02:27:43]  All right, thank you.
[02:27:44]  We've got to leave it there.
[02:27:45]  I sympathize with your position, but I don't agree with you.
[02:27:51]  I think that in America we do have certain moral standards, and one of them happens to be that we do not pass child pornography.
[02:28:01]  It is against the law to do so through the mails, and should be against the law to do so over the Internet.
[02:28:08]  We do not pass pornography to children, and I think it ought to be against the law to do so.
[02:28:15]  I don't have a problem with it.
[02:28:19]  Now, I realize a lot of people on the Internet are very libertarian-minded.
[02:28:23]  All of the surveys that are done show Harry Brown to be the favorite candidate of those on the Internet.
[02:28:33]  He is an aspiring libertarian, a presidential nominee, and that's fine.
[02:28:42]  But I disagree, and there is some regulation that is needed.
[02:28:46]  I don't want to pass around child porn, and I don't want it passed to children.
[02:28:52]  And I'm adamant about that.
[02:28:55]  And as we regulate the mails, as we regulate amateur radio, as we regulate broadcasting in the mass media, so then we should regulate the Internet, and laws should apply there just as they do everywhere else.
[02:29:11]  I don't have a problem with it.
[02:29:14]  And I think you're overreacting.
[02:29:35]  Wild Card Line, you're on the air.
[02:29:37]  Hello, Ark.
[02:29:38]  Hello.
[02:29:38]  It's Mark here from KHVH in Honolulu.
[02:29:41]  Hi, Mark.
[02:29:42]  How you doing tonight?
[02:29:43]  Okay.
[02:29:44]  I think, you know, most everybody I've talked to on the net and through the IRC and other places with the Internet, they pretty much feel that way as well.
[02:29:54]  I think the argument about distribution of pornography to minors has to do with a lot of them think that there should be more parental input into it.
[02:30:05]  And there is software available that can lock out any place within the Internet to minors.
[02:30:16]  I think that's totally agreed upon.
[02:30:18]  But I was reading a really interesting article in one of the magazines the other day about the electronic freedom foundation.
[02:30:27]  That would require some kind of identification.
[02:30:29]  If you can use pseudo-names and handles, how can you identify a minor from an adult?
[02:30:35]  Well, the adult, what the program does, this particular software, what it does, is that the parent loads it into the system.
[02:30:46]  Ah, wait a minute.
[02:30:48]  Hold it.
[02:30:49]  Slow up right there.
[02:30:51]  The parent loads it into the system.
[02:30:52]  So in other words, it requires parental intervention.
[02:30:56]  Yeah, the parent, you know, and there are some kids.
[02:31:00]  I mean, like, kids learn so much about computers in schools nowadays and everything.
[02:31:05]  Exactly.
[02:31:05]  All right.
[02:31:05]  Why do we have a movie rating system?
[02:31:07]  Why do we not allow children to go into X-rated movies?
[02:31:12]  Well, it's the same reason why we wouldn't want them getting passed on to either arbitrarily going into one of the areas on the net that has it so if they know how to download it, it just comes up arbitrarily.
[02:31:26]  Or the other problem that they're having, which I have a real problem with as well, is people who distribute it knowingly on the net are actually interfacing through areas and finding out that it is a minor and then getting it loaded onto their email.
[02:31:46]  And that's really disturbing as well.
[02:31:49]  But the thing with the software is one way that it can be done.
[02:31:53]  I agree that there can be regulations so that that's as against the law as it is with sending it through the mail or any other way.
[02:32:02]  Sure.
[02:32:03]  And it causes a big problem with us on the Internet because the majority of the Net are really responsible net citizens and community citizens.
[02:32:12]  That's right.
[02:32:12]  Almost on every place that I've been on.
[02:32:15]  Well, these responsible net citizens will have nothing to fear from a law that prevents the passage of porn to children.
[02:32:23]  Yeah, I agree with that.
[02:32:25]  And the thing about it, though, is the way that we can.
[02:32:28]  And wait a minute, it goes beyond that.
[02:32:29]  It is a conscious distribution of porn to children or trial.
[02:32:35]  Intentional.
[02:32:36]  That's right.
[02:32:36]  That means you know what you're doing.
[02:32:39]  That's right.
[02:32:40]  Okay, so short of that, you're not going to be prosecuted.
[02:32:43]  And I think that man who just had on, we had on, who's an Internet provider, is overreacting.

=== Vague Surveillance Laws (07:36) ===

[02:32:50]  Possibly so, but there are the thing about it is I've read a lot about this particular bill that's been going through, and there's a lot of discussion about it on the net, and the actual bill itself is up on the net, you know, and then the full thing.
[02:33:03]  But one of the things is that there are other aspects to that particular bill that do cause problems with ISP, the service providers, and also they've set it up now so that they can survey in any locality a thousand telephone or data links at any given time from a remote area.
[02:33:29]  Right.
[02:33:30]  So what?
[02:33:31]  They do that on telephone now.
[02:33:33]  Well, I know.
[02:33:34]  I heard you talking about that the other day.
[02:33:36]  But the thing about it is that most of the people on the net, what they really look at this as is a further erosion of privacy, and for not really a good reason, because there's only been in the last 10 years something like about 85 successfully prosecuted cases against people who've actually been surveilled had surveillance on them through wiretaps.
[02:34:07]  And there's just got to be a better way.
[02:34:10]  And I don't want to just debate it, but I just see both sides of the situation where a lot of people feel like that this particular bill is improperly written.
[02:34:22]  It's too vague in a lot of ways.
[02:34:25]  It gives a lot more...
[02:34:26]  Look, sir, in every area of society, laws that apply to pornography in children are vague.
[02:34:34]  Of necessity, they are vague.
[02:34:37]  Wait a minute.
[02:34:38]  A Supreme Court justice even said, I'm not exactly sure how to define pornography, but I know it when I see it.
[02:34:44]  Yeah, yeah, I agree.
[02:34:45]  And I don't disagree with your premise on pornography specifically or specifically to children.
[02:34:55]  I just think it shouldn't be allowed.
[02:34:57]  It's not allowed through the mails.
[02:34:59]  It's not allowed to be openly sold over a counter, even if it's in a specialty shop or anything like that.
[02:35:05]  But it's some of the other writing that's actually.
[02:35:09]  Give me a specific objection.
[02:35:12]  Well, one of the things is that the U.S. government has made, in this deal, has made a deal with the telecommunications companies to give them a billion dollars of taxpayers' money to be able to go back through their systems because all telephony now is really computerized.
[02:35:34]  Yes.
[02:35:34]  So they've given them that money.
[02:35:37]  They're going to give them that money.
[02:35:38]  They haven't done it yet because it hasn't been appropriated yet.
[02:35:41]  The money hasn't.
[02:35:42]  But they are setting it up so that they would have to go back at the average citizen's expense to be able to put the programming into their computerized telephony systems to be able to have all of these wiretapped systems, which includes the whole of the Internet because it is connections of computers and services.
[02:36:04]  Well, yes, but it is merely  ⁇ all right, thank you.
[02:36:06]  It is merely an extension of, for example, what the Federal Communications Commission does now with broadcasting.
[02:36:14]  They monitor broadcasting.
[02:36:17]  Telephones are monitored for certain things.
[02:36:23]  And of necessity, eventually, digital communications are going to have to be monitored for certain things.
[02:36:32]  We don't want people planning bombs and planning crimes on the Internet.
[02:36:40]  You know, let us go back to the original definition of freedom.
[02:36:46]  Freedom means that you are free within certain limits, and there are limits.
[02:36:51]  Like everything else, there are limits to freedom.
[02:36:53]  You are free to do this and or that.
[02:36:57]  But you're not free to distribute child pornography.
[02:37:00]  You're not free to plan or conspire a crime.
[02:37:07]  And so the Internet is going to have to be watched as telephones are watched, as the mails are watched, to the degree that things that we as a society do not want to go on don't go on.
[02:37:22]  Or if they do, they're stopped.
[02:37:25]  So it is logical to me, and I understand that the law is of necessity kind of vague.
[02:37:31]  And that ends up scaring a lot of people.
[02:37:33]  But I don't think the Internet police are going to be closing in on some poor little guy running a server or running an Internet access and something slips through.
[02:37:47]  It's like every now and then, even on this program, I've had a word over the years, the S word, probably the F word, although I don't think so.
[02:37:56]  I think I've caught them.
[02:37:57]  But, you know, every now and then it happens.
[02:38:00]  And the Commission looks at that.
[02:38:03]  They went after Howard Stern.
[02:38:06]  Why?
[02:38:07]  Because it was a daily diet of objectionable material, what a lot of people consider to be objectionable material.
[02:38:20]  Day after day after day.
[02:38:21]  Intentional, repetitive, and to many people who wrote in and complained, so they went after him.
[02:38:31]  And it's going to be kind of that way on the Internet.
[02:38:34]  If an occasional word slips, they're not going to come tearing into your house.
[02:38:40]  But if you are a provider which specializes in the passing of pornography, well, then yes, they might come after you if you're distributing knowingly to children or distributing child pornography to adults.
[02:39:00]  I don't think that encompasses freedom.
[02:39:03]  First time caller line, you're on the air.
[02:39:06]  Yeah, it's not what I want to talk about, but I believe what the Internet provider was concerned about, it's possibly that another area like the seizure laws.
[02:39:16]  I understand that they would somehow be politically unhappy with him, so they would wait and they would lurk and wait until one piece of porn came across his server and come in and get him, right?
[02:39:27]  Yeah, well, the seizure laws, they don't even have to convict you.
[02:39:30]  They can just go take things.
[02:39:32]  And you have to prove your innocence.
[02:39:33]  But anyway, what I wanted to talk about was the currency.
[02:39:37]  And all they're doing with the currency is providing us with something that's not easily counterfeitable.
[02:39:44]  Well, that is, of course, what they say.
[02:39:46]  Sir, we're so short on time here.
[02:39:48]  I'm going to try and grab one more quick call.
[02:39:51]  Wildcard line, you're on the air with very little time.
[02:39:54]  Hello.
[02:39:54]  Good morning, Mr. Bell.
[02:39:55]  This is Jess in San Diego on Coco.
[02:39:57]  Yes, sir.
[02:39:58]  The mighty KOGO 600 San Diego.
[02:40:02]  Hot talk, yes, sir.
[02:40:05]  Well, I don't have enough time to really talk about what I want to say.
[02:40:08]  You do have enough time, though, to get the grand honor awarded each night to only one person.
[02:40:13]  You know what it is?
[02:40:14]  Yes, sir.
[02:40:15]  Let her fly.
[02:40:16]  Good night, America.
[02:40:19]  So well trained, this audience is.
[02:40:21]  Thank you all very much from the now drier high desert.