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Name: 20080425_Fri_Alex
Air Date: April 25, 2008
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	Michael Hoffman.
	Former reporter, New York Bureau, Associated Press, other major publications, award-winning historian, highly respected, joins us to tell you about some of his books and his website.
	If you'd like to check it out or learn more, revisionisthistory.org is one of the sites.
	We have links to that up on Infowars.com right now.
	Yeah, being a history buff, because it's so entertaining, I mean, I got into history because it's better than fiction.
	I mean, the slave ships, the beating the people, the killing the white slaves, the white slaves all over the U.S., all over Australia.
	Uh, you were allowed to kill them, but not kill the black slaves.
	But see, they can't allow that out in the news, because then whites and blacks wouldn't hate each other, blacks wouldn't feel especially downtrodden and second class, wouldn't imagine every white person was their slave owner, when really, a few percentage points of whites even own black slaves.
	Going back to Michael Hoffman, finishing up on this subject, then I want to get in to the roots of the New World Order, the occult empire, this amalgamation of groups, what you believe is at the heart of it, sir.
	But anything else you wanted to add about white slaves and bringing it up to modern times?
	Well, I think that you're right about racial reconciliation.
	I believe that the people who are trying to harm blacks in America are the ones who are trying to establish some sort of genetic predisposition for enslavement
	And being passive in this way, and once you've done that, then you're controlling the minds of black people because you're giving them a permanent subservient status, and a permanent stigma of racial resentment against the white master, when that hasn't been the case.
	The very definition of the word slave comes from the root of the word slav, because it was the slavs of Eastern Europe and Russia who had been hereditary slaves,
	For various economic and political reasons.
	Well, if you read the Bible, with the Israelites, or the Romans, or anybody else, they were slaves of every color.
	They were slaves of every color, and when we get deeper into this subject, we will also talk about how the Midrash and Rabbi Moses' mammothies caused black people to be associated with ham,
	And that the curse in Genesis on Ham was made a racial curse.
	And for those who know their Bible, they know, of course, that there is no racial component to the curse on Ham in Genesis.
	And then that was used to kick off the transatlantic slave trade in the mid-1500s and 1600s.
	And provide the justification for it, yes.
	Absolutely.
	Now, I want to be clear about this, because blacks feel victimized, they feel like a subgroup, and all whiteys must pay.
	Listen to Barack Obama's preacher, the blue-eyed devil.
	And if you look historically in numbers, there have been more white slaves than there have been black slaves.
	Now, again, this is the modern way of thinking.
	That doesn't lessen what happened to them.
	It's just like, again, if there's two bank robbers, you're not saying one's innocent and the other isn't.
	It's saying that this is a button they have installed in the psyche of blacks where the government, the nanny state, can play the part of the provider when really they're carrying out eugenics operations against them.
	Well, you mentioned the elite and how the people who are not elite are mostly concerned with animal appetites, whereas the elite is concerned with control.
	But anyone who aspires to become elite or get into the elite, hopefully for benevolent reasons and not predatory ones,
	...understands what maybe a lot of civil rights activists do not understand.
	That if you don't take responsibility for your life, if you don't blame your life on yourself or take credit for your achievements on yourself, you can't get ahead.
	You're psychologically crippled.
	And yet we see this covert mechanism in American society where blacks are told to blame others.
	That's not a way for them to get ahead.
	It's a way to keep them out of the elite.
	Second point here, Alex, when you mentioned Barack Obama's preacher, one of the things that troubles me about all of the negativity that's associated with that is
	Why is there not a commensurate amount of fury and media angst about John McCain's preacher, John Hagee, who is a man who forms what I call Ku Klux Judaism?
	No, no, I agree.
	Stay there.
	Well, we actually expose the fact that he says Jesus isn't the Messiah and that worshiping Israel is the new religion.
	We'll be right back with our guest.
	Stay with us.
	It is a big idea.
	A new world order.
	In the near future, Earth is dominated by a powerful world government.
	It's known as the Bilderberg Group.
	Could their objective be world domination?
	For thousands of years, their dark order grew.
	Now, as they hail the birth of the New World Order, their great dream of exterminating 80% of humanity is at hand.
	For the first time in history, the elite's plan for world government is blown wide open.
	You will learn the secret that drives the entire New World Order agenda.
	Build America is making great progress toward a world government.
	Most people have no idea.
	They're not after money.
	They have all the money they need.
	They're after power.
	That's what they're after these days.
	Order In Game on DVD at PrisonPlanet.com or InfoWars.com.
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	In Game.
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	Big Brother, Mainstream Media, Government Cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	Author, journalist for the Associated Press, historian,
	We've only got him for about 20 more minutes, so I'm just going to try to shut up.
	It just is all so intriguing.
	And then I want to get him back for a full two hours in the next month or so.
	Before he leaves us, let's just do it now.
	Give out your websites.
	Tell folks about some of the books you've written.
	The website, Alex, is revisionisthistory.org.
	And some of the books are, such as the one we've been discussing, They Were White and They Were Slaves, The Untold History of the Enslavement of Whites in Early America and Industrial Britain.
	Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare, and I'm just finishing up a 900-page book, Judaism Discovered.
	You also wrote Judaism Strange Gods.
	Judaism Strange Gods in 2000, which was a groundwork for an introduction to the religion of Judaism.
	This 900-page book, I style an introduction.
	It's a vast subject, so even this large tome is still an introduction.
	Well, I'm going to have you on about that, because people are fascinated with it, and it's important to understand our society and these cultures, how they've grown together.
	Let's continue to get into, you were talking about Pastor Hagee, when we hit the last break.
	Well, I just think that John McCain is getting a free ride here.
	Obama has got to answer and continue to answer for his preacher, as he should.
	Certainly.
	Absolutely.
	He should be responsible for this man's remarks.
	Well, it hasn't been brought up about Clinton pardoning the Weathermen.
	I mean, it's just stupid.
	Look, Rush Limbaugh is calling for riots and burning cars and death at the DNC.
	They just want crisis, crisis, crisis.
	But go ahead and talk about Hagee.
	Well, you know, it's interesting.
	I believe that McCain is the candidate of the cryptocracy.
	I think that Hillary is their fallback, and certainly they could deal with Obama if they processed him sufficiently.
	But I'm a long-time student of the Israeli media, and I know from the Israeli media and from my own informants and counterintelligence that we have operating inside Zionism and so forth, that we see that they're very much in favor of John McCain.
	They're worried about Obama.
	And Clinton is acceptable.
	So when you understand that, you understand how the media is treating McCain.
	As far as I'm concerned, he's getting a free ride on Hagee.
	Because Hagee, in my judgment, is a far more sinister character than Obama.
	Well, Hagee is like a cartoon character.
	I mean, statements like he praises God when Palestinian children are shot and Jesus isn't the Messiah.
	I mean, even if you're an atheist, you have to know that that's asinine for a supposed Protestant preacher to be saying Jesus was basically a bad guy and was a rebellious person.
	And then he goes to the different ADL meetings and apologizes for being a Christian.
	It's saddening.
	So why aren't we seeing that question that you just formulated put in front of John McCain?
	Why aren't we seeing investigative reports in the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, along these lines?
	We're not.
	They're protecting him from the fallout there.
	There is some token criticism and some token references, but nothing like Obama's facing with his preacher.
	So I think the disparity between the two is very instructive.
	Well, I agree with you.
	Go to the root of this.
	Next time we have you on, we'll do two, three hours to really cover all of this, to go back to the roots of a cult.
	Because we can say the roots of the New World Order are in Egypt, we can say Babylon, we can say Solomon's Temple, but that was borrowing from the previous myths.
	We know, I mean, from my studying of the New World Order, reading history books and reading really things that are, you know,
	Little known, but admitted historical facts that you have this weird obsession with Germanic power.
	You've got then also the royal family of England, the German royal family, believing that they are really Israelites.
	You've then got the supposed mainline Jews who are really Central European or Eastern European.
	You've then got their weird behavior
	Radiating the Jewish children who were Sephardic.
	It seems there's a war against the brown Jews.
	You've then got weird Zionists supporting Hitler to the degree of not letting Jews get out of the country.
	There's just so many weird similarities.
	We know the Germanic cultures and the Britannic cultures merged with a lot of the Judaic stuff thousands of years ago, but as a historian studying this,
	I mean, when you get to the end of the day, isn't it a cultist that run it?
	And then you've got two big branches that have grown together and are basically like the Rothschilds.
	I see them as almost inseparable from, you know, the crazy leadership that's Germanic in Britain.
	And then so to me, it's like a sub-Predator group above another Predator group.
	I mean, what's the real hierarchy, according to Michael Hoffman?
	Well, first of all, I want to define our terms.
	We want to go to first principles, because when you talk about a cult, you start to turn off one section of the audience who thinks that you're mystifying political science and current events.
	And I don't think either one of us is doing that, because a cult, when I'm talking about it, is the science of mind control.
	And Arthur C. Clarke, who just recently passed away in Sri Lanka, defined any sufficiently advanced technology as having the appearance of magic.
	And so, for various reasons, the elites have both wanted to manipulate religions and mystify issues, as well as keep alive the mind control system which goes into the eternal pagan psychodrama, and from that, exploit nations and people.
	But you have given us a cornucopia of conspiracies and actors in the conspiracy, but I would say we can reduce it to the way Christ reduced it.
	You're either Christ or you're Antichrist.
	There is good and there is evil.
	And I don't believe in existential shades of grey in this.
	So, we can talk about a whole plethora of people, nations, and individuals who are involved, but we can also track this in a system
	How it originated, where it came from, and I would say that the cradle of it is Egypt.
	The Talmud says nine-tenths of the sorcery that the evil one had, he gave to Egypt, one-tenth went to the other nation.
	And actually, that was a left-handed compliment on the part of the Talmudic rabbis, because they're into sorcery, and it was an indicator, one of many, that they wanted to study and master what Egypt had.
	And from Egypt to Babylon, from Babylon to the Talmud.
	Let's be clear, this isn't just ooga booga.
	This is how to know with mathematics when the next eclipse is coming to freak out everybody because the high priest can tell you a year before when it's going to happen.
	That's why they build big buildings.
	It's a whole system of shocking and making the people feel small and the government and those that run the seats of power as being gods.
	Well, Egyptian archaeoastronomy, which you're referring to, and mystical toponomy in terms of the buildings and how they're situated is well known, but it seems to me that the manipulation of words and the notion that words had power and how they were to be utilized is lesser known in our circles, and certainly the Egyptians were masters of word manipulation and keywords.
	Uh, which, uh, Dr. Carl Gustav Jung later on in the 20th century would talk about in terms of archetypes.
	Which can trigger reactions in people.
	So that's the other aspect.
	And see, that's it.
	So like the atheist world, which the globalists have made people atheists to blind them to the real sciences, that this is really a science, even if you don't believe there's a spirit behind it.
	The elites, the ancient elites of 5,000 years ago, they figured out how to literally program people, and that's why they're occult practitioners, because that's really what it is.
	And that programming and that pyramidal structure continues in our society today, yes.
	Man, you're amazing!
	I've got to have you up for two, three, four hours if you'll do it with us, but please continue.
	And so, when we get into the Western secret societies, we see an anomaly, because it emerges in the Renaissance, where you have a group of avant-garde thinkers who were beginning to believe that they needed to study the Kabbalah, they needed to study Judaism, in order to advance the concept of human brotherhood.
	And yet, the anomaly and the high irony here is that this is when they began to pick up the idea that black people were genetically predisposed to enslavement.
	Because as they studied the Kabbalah and the Talmud, and they had been led to believe by various occult Pied Pipers that they were going to find a
	Let me stop you.
	We now move forward to the Talmud and the Zohar, because the Jews had been in Egypt, they'd also been in Babylon, so they had been in all the different schools as wanderers, picking it all up.
	Yes, the Mishnah, the first part of the Talmud, which existed in oral form in Jesus' time,
	And then, after Israel rejected its Messiah and became much more corrupt as a result, it was finally committed to writing.
	That was done in Babylon in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries AD, and as a result of that, they did pick up, by a process of osmosis, a great deal of the paganism that was around them, so that the Talmud and the Kabbalah, the Mishnah, the Gemara, the Zohar, the Sefer Yetzirah, and these other texts,
	...are brimming with occult concepts and themes, and this is what I bring out in my book, that basically Judaism, far from being an Old Testament religion that clings to the Old Covenant and rejects Christ, is actually an ossified form of Babylonian paganism.
	And this is what infiltrated the West, particularly in the Renaissance.
	It had always been gestating there, but it only came into full bloom in the Renaissance, and then of course in early modern Europe,
	It came to fruition in the various Rosicrucian and Freemasonic cults.
	Which aren't just about having sex orgies and pentagrams.
	It's the whole science of wordsmithing, manipulation, brainwashing, mass programming, how to control societies.
	And that's why, when you get to the top level, it doesn't matter whether, in my research, whether it's the SS or the Zionists, it's all the exact same people at the top, worshipping the same thing.
	Well, you especially see this level of sophistication in a mathematician who was astrologer royal to Queen Elizabeth, Dr. John Dee, the author of many important mathematical texts which to this day are referred to, and yet he was the developer of this scrying concept, this concept of a secret alphabet.
	He actually claimed to have contacted extra-human deities with whom he was in contact with
	His allies there in the Royal Court of England... Stop!
	Stop!
	Stop!
	We gotta break.
	Final segment.
	We're gonna have to have him back up very soon.
	You understand, ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't matter if you don't believe.
	They believe.
	And they built the world, the civilization you live in.
	And they believe that their great day of mass extermination is coming for you and your family.
	It is a big idea.
	A new world order.
	In the near future.
	Earth is dominated by a powerful world government.
	It's known as the Bilderberg Group.
	Could their objective be world domination?
	For thousands of years, their dark order grew.
	Now, as they hail the birth of the New World Order, their great dream of exterminating the world, the civilization you live in, and they believe that their great day of mass extermination is coming for you and your family.
	It is a big idea.
	A New World Order.
	In the near future, Earth is dominated by a powerful world government.
	It's known as the Bilderberg Group.
	Could their objective be world domination?
	For thousands of years, their dark order grew.
	Now, as they hail the birth of the New World Order, their great dream of exterminating 80% of humanity is at hand.
	For the first time in history, the elite's plan for world government is blown wide open.
	You will learn the secret that drives the entire New World Order agenda.
	Build America is making great progress toward a world government.
	Most people have no idea.
	They're not after money.
	They have all the money they need.
	They're after power.
	That's what they're after these years.
	Order Endgame on DVD at PrisonPlanet.com or InfoWars.com.
	Or watch it online right now at PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Endgame.
	Blueprint for global enslaving.
	You have been warned.
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	Our beloved Republic is on her knees.
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	But in Liberty's darkest hour, there is hope.
	The first time in modern history, the people are beginning to wake up.
	It is essential that patriots worldwide accelerate their fellow man's understanding of the New World Order Master Plan.
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	Look, I'm going to have Michael Hoffman on for two hours next Friday.
	The second half of the show.
	To really slowly go through all this history.
	But I guess in the last five minutes we've got with him, I'll just let him talk about whatever he likes, other than I want him to give me his take on this.
	I don't know what his take is, but I would imagine it's probably similar to mine because everything else seems to be similar.
	The globalists, the controllers, the architects,
	They understand human activities, human interactions, how waves in a pond work.
	And so they've designed it where if you fight one of their mechanisms, it's built to actually empower them and make them stronger, unless you strike at the root of it.
	Like if, say, you attack Zionism, well, their own documents say it only makes their people support them more, thinking that they're being abused from outside.
	Kind of like if you attack corrupt police in a wrong way, which I do all the time, out of primitiveness, that actually compacts them more into their gang mentality.
	But then if you give people a wide spectrum that know, at the highest level, it isn't even one group, it's a mindset, a belief, then people can suddenly unlock that.
	Kind of like he was saying about slavery.
	It's important to understand that whites were slaves too, because then it ends this enmity, but that lie was put there so that we would have enmity and fight with each other.
	And so this is all, I don't want to use the term delicate, it's just so sophisticated that I can see it, but it's hard to even articulate.
	I guess that's why he writes 900 page books.
	Do you agree with the statement I just made?
	Well, yes, I do.
	I would articulate it as not fighting with carnal weapons.
	We know from Oklahoma City that the system loves violence.
	They love that McVeigh and the conspiracy behind him attacked that building.
	Bill Clinton was able to add a number of Orwellian police state laws.
	And, of course, we know what happened with the 9-11 conspiracy.
	But I don't believe there's any quick fix to this, Alex.
	I believe that we need to organize, we need to build our communities, the reform starts with ourselves and our own lives with deep study and reflection, and then having organized be more a part of our own local communities, then together we can build on something which offers a pro-life alternative to this death system that they're imposing on us.
	And if I may, I wanted to give my website one more time, if that's alright.
	That's www.revisionisthistory.org.
	Now, I've been meaning to get you on for years.
	I don't know why I haven't, but here you are.
	We're gonna have you back up.
	It's just, take the example of Zionism.
	You know, you talk about how that's a core global system right now.
	Key to all of it, going right back to the roots of Egypt and Babylon.
	But then I find hundreds of times where Adam Gadon poses as Al-Qaeda, the ideal, you know, head's grandson of Adam Perlman.
	I see where they catch rabbis running white supremacist groups, British intelligence, German intelligence.
	And then I see all these groups who think they're fighting this, and when they fight it only on that front,
	They don't see the big picture of it.
	It's a system.
	It's like a river cuts a Grand Canyon.
	We're all in it.
	We're all connected to each other, and it's much bigger than just that group.
	And when I try to say, hey, it isn't one bank robber, it's ten bank robbers, but they're all
	I think that one of the viruses or memes that's been implanted in our ranks is that there is an enemy people.
	And whenever you go that way and I don't go that way, then you're falling into their snare.
	Because the enemy is not any group of people.
	The enemy is an ideology.
	It's a spirit.
	It's a spiritual ideology.
	It can affect you.
	It can infect me.
	It can infect any nation of people.
	No one is invulnerable to it.
	And science is now showing that.
	Monkeys in one research lab, five miles from another, if they can teach these monkeys, suddenly the other monkeys learn it.
	It's like a radio waves being broadcast.
	So much is undiscovered about the way that we are used, and more and more we're discovering how what was called magic in the past is actually science today.
	But I do want to advise people to stay away from targeting any population, whether it's the Khazars, the Judaics, the Israelis, the Palestinians, or the Arabs.
	They're not the issue.
	Everybody is capable of having good will.
	And of changing their lives.
	The enemy is an ideology.
	It's a spirit.
	And if we stick to that, we can win, Alex.
	And the globalists, this evil force, it recruits the intelligent.
	It recruits the creative.
	So that's why, at the highest places everywhere, you're going to find this spirit.
	Because if you take that spirit, you're giving the earth, just like the devil told Jesus on the mountain.
	Yes, that's true.
	All right, well we appreciate you joining us and we really appreciate the time and we'll talk to you next Friday.
	I'm going to have my producer call you in the next five minutes, sir.
	Thank you.
	I look forward to it, Alex.
	Thank you.
	He'll be with us two hours coming up.
	In fact, just stay there.
	I'd like to talk to you during the break.
	We'll be right back with another special guest.
	Stay with us.
	All right, I have Joseph.
	If you take that spirit, you're giving the earth, just like the devil told Jesus on the mountain.
	Yes, that's true.
	All right.
	Well, we appreciate you joining us, and we really appreciate the time.
	And we'll talk to you next Friday.
	I'm going to have my producer call you in the next five minutes, sir.
	Thank you.
	I look forward to it, Alex.
	Thank you.
	He'll be with us two hours coming up.
	In fact, just stay there.
	I'd like to talk to you during the break.
	We'll be right back with another special guest.
	Stay with us.
	We're on the march.
	The Empire's on the run.
	Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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	Joseph Stiglitz is our guest.
	New book out, The Three Trillion Dollar War.
	We had him on with us last January.
	We also interviewed him here in Austin for the TV show.
	And he said that within two and a half years,
	If the global financial order did not make some serious reforms, we would have the hyperinflation that could lead to a worldwide depression.
	And you can go to the websites, InfoWars.com, if you want to read that article from last year.
	He is a Nobel Prize winner in economics.
	He is a former World Bank Chief Economist.
	If I tried to go over his entire bio, it would take hours, but you can just Google Joseph Stiklitz.
	He's written quite a few best-selling books as well.
	The new one, The Three Trillion Dollar War, and that's just how much it costs now, not to mention our good name worldwide.
	And so I really appreciate Joseph Stiglitz joining us.
	Thank you for coming on, sir.
	Nice to be here.
	You were here about a year and four months ago, and you laid out in 20 minutes a forecast of what indeed happened, but we've gone about 90% near forecast.
	I'm hoping the rest of the 10% isn't correct and we don't have a depression in another two years.
	What do you see happening?
	Well, actually, the prospects of our economy right now are not very good.
	To some extent what happens depends on what the American government and other governments do.
	But right now, even the IMF, and I've often disagreed with the IMF, but right now I think they're on target.
	They are saying that the American economy is going to be very weak, not only this year but next year, and it won't be until 2010 before the economy really starts to show a recovery.
	Part of the problem is that the current administration has been doing too little too late.
	What they've been doing is not well designed, and the fundamentals of economic policy are that it takes a while
	Before any action that you take has full effect.
	So if this administration isn't going to do anything, it's going to be until the next administration comes into office.
	And that means that we won't begin to get the right medicine until the beginning of 2009.
	And that means we're talking about late 2009, 2010, before we start seeing really a solid recovery.
	Now, a lot of people thrown around the term depression.
	A lot of top economists have.
	You've used that term before.
	A depression, I guess, would be... I would be a little bit cautious about using that term.
	I think that we tend to reserve that for the Great Depression, or for the kind of situation that was in the island of Java in 1997.
	A breakdown, a collapse, starving, but I mean, a recession, you're the Nobel Prize winning economist, but tell me if I'm wrong, a recession is two continual quarters of zero growth, and then a depression would be how many quarters?
	Well, we usually think of a depression as really very strong negative growth for an extended period of time.
	But it doesn't make any difference.
	The fundamental question is whether the U.S.
	economy is going to be performing below its potential for an extended period of time.
	On that, I think there is almost unanimity now among economists.
	That we're looking towards an extended period of the economy operating below its potential.
	And there's a very simple reason, and part of the reason why there's a little bit of discussion, depression, is that the fundamental reason for this downturn is very similar to that of the Great Depression.
	Weaknesses in the financial system.
	The losses that the banks are incurring, the financial system incurring, are quite literally mind-boggling.
	We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars.
	We've seen lots of write-offs.
	And the IMF estimates the total amount to be nearly a trillion dollars.
	And then there's that cascading effect as you have the bubble popping, everybody leveraged out in the western world, more and more housing crises with subprimes, more and more of all these instruments that are AAA rated.
	It's all leading towards, I mean you said here a year ago that, I mean you talked about the term depression, now you, I guess things are so serious you don't want to use that term.
	What I'm trying to understand here is how we could get out of this, where you see this, hey where do you see it going with the current management and the different
	The basic thing is that what happens to the financial sector is not unconnected.
	It's very closely connected with the real sector.
	Wall Street and Main Street are very closely linked.
	As is what's happening, the financial sector is having serious economic problems.
	It has no choice but to start raining in credit.
	If it's not making loans, individuals, households, firms can't do the investment that they would otherwise have done.
	As they cut back their economic activity, the whole economy slows down.
	And the whole thing just sort of unravels.
	And that's what we're beginning to see go through our economy going through.
	Now, you are absolutely right, and I've been talking about this actually now for several years.
	It was so clear that we faced a housing bubble, and that housing bubble was sustaining a consumption boom.
	Savings in the United States plummeted to zero, some quarters negative.
	It was clear that that was not sustainable.
	What was going on?
	Well, it's pretty simple and it's actually related to my book, The $3 Trillion War, where I argue that, in fact, there's not two issues in this campaign, but one, the war and the economy are very closely connected.
	The war was having a very negative effect on the economy for a variety of reasons that I spelled out.
	The Fed said we have to cover it up.
	Our job is to keep the economy going.
	And they did it in a very short-sighted way.
	They let loose a flood of liquidity and loose regulations.
	And what happened was it did cover up the negative effects of the war.
	But we were living on borrowed money and borrowed time, and a day of reckoning had to come.
	We couldn't predict when it was going to come, but we knew that it was going to come.
	So in layman's terms, how bad is it going to get?
	Because I've had the head of the New York Business School on, I've had all these other former Treasury policy heads, I've had the Shadow Stats people on about what real inflation is, like 15% now.
	Look at the food, look at the oil, look at the dollar plunging.
	And then Bush is out giving speeches saying we're not even in a recession.
	He said that two days ago at the SPP meeting, you know, on the North American integration.
	I mean, it's just...
	And, you know, the old cliche of, it's a recession if your neighbor's out of work, it's a depression if you're out of work.
	I mean, if half the Social Security check value has been cut in the last five years, compounded, and believe me, I know, I've got families on Social Security, if people are out of work, if I'm seeing more homeless people, if there's houses going, you know, all over the place going under, I mean, hell, this is just the beginning, Mr. Stiklitz!
	How bad is it going to get?
	Worse.
	I mean, we expect now, at least in the next year, about 2.2 million Americans will lose their homes, and with that, much of their life savings, many of these will lose their entire life savings.
	The forecast is that housing prices, already going down 10%, are probably going to go down another 10 to 20%.
	When that happens, we're not sure how many houses will be underwater, but numbers, 14-15 million households will have mortgages exceeding the value of their house.
	We're in for, very unlikely, a very bad time.
	Now, the President is trying to push the problems of the economy onto the next administration, just like he pushed the problem of the war onto the next administration.
	I think he'd hoped that the whole bubble wouldn't break until after November 2008, but it began to unravel in August 2007.
	Like so many other things in the last few years, they haven't gone quite according to plan.
	The big uncertainty, as I say, is what will be done.
	Let me tell you some of the things that need to be done.
	We need a stimulus.
	The President seems to think that a tax cut is the solution to all problems, particularly tax cuts for the rich.
	In fact, I would argue that our current problems actually began with the
	2001 tax cut, it actually set us on a wrong course.
	What about the argument that cutting taxes generally raises the general amount of tax receipts because it accelerates the economy?
	You know, that old idea of supply-side economics, it was totally discredited in the 80s, and you see it right now.
	The way that I was supposed to work it... But I thought increased spending, I mean, more money did come in.
	Well, let me try to go through the two sides of it.
	On the supply side, that's the traditional argument, is that it's supposed to encourage labor supply and savings.
	Well, it hasn't exactly done that.
	Savings has gone down to zero.
	I don't see how you can say that the tax cuts help savings.
	No, it's not the opposite, no.
	Uh, and labor force participation, which is the labor side, is weaker than it was in the 90s, so it hasn't worked.
	Now, on the demand side, it did help a little bit, but much, much less than would have been the case had we given a tax cut to lower middle-income Americans.
	We gave tax cuts to the very rich Americans.
	Oh, I agree.
	We need to slash taxes on the middle class.
	The problem is the blue collar folks think the middle class are the elite, Dr. Stiglitz.
	I mean, that's the larger issue.
	And I want to get into your book in the time we've got, in the 15 minutes we've got left before we end this at 58 after with you, sir, because it's a very powerful book.
	I saw the Financial Times of London about eight months ago say the headline that bigger institutional banks could stand to gain from all this, and that they all played the game of issuing liquidity.
	They bought real assets, they grabbed infrastructure, they grabbed different commodities, and then now governments are coming in, bailing that out, they're gobbling up more banks.
	The Federal Reserve is talking about taking over three federal
	Federal regulatory agencies, the private Fed, you know, more foxes watching the hen house.
	And so I also see a predatory capitalism, and I'm for capitalism but not the predatory crony type, here where it's not just a bunch of people screwing up, it's a bunch of reckless people that knew they could create a money bubble that they could use to literally buy the planet up with, and then we the people get left holding the bag with hyperinflation and with taxes to pay it back.
	Well, you know, you've identified one of the big problems.
	What we've been doing is we've been socializing risk and privatizing wealth.
	I think so.
	Bear Stearns shareholders walked off with over a billion dollars of money totally without paying a cent of insurance premium for the risk that taxpayers have picked up.
	I mean notice Bear Stearns got their bonuses right before all this happened.
	That was very suspicious.
	Was that used as a cover for
	JP Morgan Chase being in trouble that they grabbed Bear Stearns because there's talk that they were in trouble as well, and there are a lot of other brokerage houses that were in worse trouble than Bear Stearns, but I mean, that was very strange what happened there.
	Oh, I agree it was very strange.
	All I can say is that there's a lot of lack of transparency in the financial markets, and to be honest, we don't really know what is going on.
	Well, as you know, sir, in the last month, three big central bankers in Europe have said that in mid-March we narrowly avoided total financial collapse.
	Now, I know you're a very important person, Nobel Prize winner, former Chief Economist, World Bank.
	You don't want to freak people out or anything, but, I mean, on the good side,
	What, two or three years of recession, tell me if I'm wrong, and then we come out of it with some new bubble, and then we just kind of have some inflation.
	On the bad side, just war in the streets, starving people, running around with machine guns.
	I mean, the government's building FEMA camps, it's in the news.
	Bush has said he's gotten ready for martial law.
	I mean, I'm sure you're an educated guy, you've seen that in the news.
	The government's acting really weird right now.
	What are the chances of the good side, bad recession, bad side, depression, really bad side?
	Right now, the world is in a rather unusual situation.
	At the same time, we're facing one of the most troubling
	I think?
	Well, things are bad in the United States.
	We have to remember how much worse they are in most of the developing countries.
	They have to spend most of their money to get by on food and energy, and with food and energy prices soaring, they're having real trouble.
	And it's not a surprise that riots have been breaking out in many developing countries, and I anticipate to see more of that.
	And that just highlights the difficulty that the global economy is facing.
	Meanwhile, a few billion dollars could have fed these people, but instead, like your new book says, three trillion has been spent.
	So who are the real culprits?
	I mean, who are the bad guys in all of this?
	I mean, who are the main companies, the main individuals?
	We know it's bigger than George Bush, Mr. Stiglitz.
	Well, the point that you just made, I just want to emphasize, three trillion dollars is a lot of money.
	A lot of money.
	And if we expend that on helping people in the developing countries, helping America!
	I was just in Gary, Indiana, the city I was born in, and talking to the mayor, and he said, you know, three trillion dollars, we can't get three cents out of the federal government.
	Our city is decaying, schools need help, our road infrastructure filled with potholes, and we just can't get the money that we need to help revive our economy.
	And it's no-bid contracts to Dubai.
	Halliburton is even here now.
	Well, that is another part of the scandal.
	You asked who were the winners.
	There are actually only two winners in this war.
	The oil companies have made out fantastically with the soaring oil prices, but the real winners are the defense contractors, and number one on that is Halberton.
	Their stock price has almost tripled.
	In previous wars,
	There's been a sense of shared sacrifice.
	You send our young men and women off to fight.
	The rest of us make a contribution by paying taxes.
	There's an effort to make sure that there's no profiteering.
	Well, this is the first war in America's history that we put entirely on the credit card.
	And that's what Lee Iacocca said.
	Stay there, Joseph Stiklitz.
	The new book, ladies and gentlemen, bookstores everywhere will tell you about it.
	The $3 trillion war on the other side of this quick break with our guest.
	We'll have five minutes with him on the other side.
	Really appreciate him spending time with us today.
	Let me talk to him.
	...taxes.
	There's an effort to make sure that there's no profiteering.
	Well, this is the first war in America's history that we put entirely on the credit card.
	And that's what Leon Koca said.
	Stay there, Joseph Stiklitz.
	The new book, ladies and gentlemen, bookstores everywhere will tell you about it.
	The $3 trillion war on the other side of this quick break with our guest.
	We'll have five minutes with him on the other side.
	Really appreciate him spending time with us today.
	It is a big idea.
	Of course, if that happens, we know it's a disaster.
	Well, that's what I'm saying.
	What do we do?
	I mean, if they continue the war, continue all the spending and it doesn't stop, doesn't that assure a depression?
	I mean, if they don't make the reforms now, then it seems like they're not going to make any of the reforms.
	Well, I think the good news is that we have democracy and
	I think there's enough anger about what is going on.
	The fact is that money that, you know, they've defended what they've done on the basis of a need for security, but actually our security is less.
	as a result of this war.
	Well, exactly.
	There weren't many real terrorists before, but now the army admits that it's been a factory creating them in Iraq.
	That's right.
	Al-Qaeda was not there in 2003.
	Now Al-Qaeda is there.
	Well, what about the asinine statement that, and we'll talk about this scenario when we get back, the asinine statement that Iran is Al-Qaeda, and then McCain just said to Petraeus last week in the testimony, isn't Iran Al-Qaeda?
	And Petraeus said, yes, they are.
	No, I mean, it's totally different.
	In fact, their perspectives on even Islam are totally different.
	Okay, well, let's just come back, talk about the book, you know, ending the war, what some of the steps are to reverse this, and then what will happen if we don't do something about the spending and all the insanity?
	Oh, and we only have five minutes when we get back.
	Can you tell folks how low you think the dollar will go?
	I mean, just tell me.
	How low do you think the dollar is going to go, sir?
	It's very hard to predict that, and the reason why it's very hard to predict that is that it depends more than almost anything else on what governments do.
	One of the problems is a lot of discussion about whether the European Central Bank is going to increase interest rates, lower interest rates,
	The new high in the dollar that just happened this week was a result in part because the rumors that the European Central Bank was going to raise their interest rate.
	Stay there, several are online right now.
	Here we go.
	Join the info war today.
	The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.
	Because there's a war on for your mind.
	We had We Are Change On, Jack McClam, William Lewis, a bunch of other guests.
	That'll all retransmit on the internet.
	This is the Eminem Show right here.
	In five minutes at Infowars.com if you missed any of it.
	I mean, we came in directly with guests today for the four hours.
	Joseph Stiklitz, former Chief Economist, World Bank, Nobel Prize winner.
	He left in 2002, exposed a lot of the internal corruption, the IMF riot, how they go in and want economies to crater so they can buy it up, the 100-point plan, all of that.
	I've got to get him back up, and I hate even talking over him.
	I just have so many questions.
	Your new book,
	The $3 trillion war, breaking this down, if we don't end the war, and it costs another $3 trillion in five years, will that ensure a deeper financial crisis, or is this good for us?
	Oh, it's definitely not good for us.
	You know, the idea that goes back, a myth goes back to World War II, that wars are good for the economy.
	Guns and butter.
	But we know at least since the time of King that you can stimulate the economy without going to war.
	And these other ways, investments in education, health, roads, infrastructure,
	We have long-term productivity effects.
	Nobody ever said that wars have good long-term productivity effects, increase your living standards.
	This particular war has been very bad for our economy, and the easy way to see that is spending money on a Naples contractor working in Iraq just doesn't provide much stimulus to the economy anywhere near as much as spending the same amount of money building a road in the U.S.
	And this war has also been bad because it set forth the rise in oil prices.
	Don't you also have the fraud associated?
	You know, 15 million dollar Halliburton blue tarps?
	Yeah, I mean, that's an example of, you know, that kind of spending doesn't help the American economy.
	And to make it even worse, Halliburton operates offshore.
	So, it doesn't have to avoid taxes, that it doesn't pay Medicare and Social Security taxes.
	Normally, we would be coming down hard on anybody.
	But it's Dick Cheney!
	Why are we seeing this level of arrogance?
	Even Lee Iacocca has come out and said we have a criminal corporate elite running the White House, running the government, destroying the nation.
	Did you see those quotes?
	No, I didn't.
	But it is astounding.
	And the problem is, it's not only bad directly for our economy,
	It undermines confidence in our country.
	Anybody who wants to deal with the United States says, you know, what's going on here?
	Exactly!
	So we've only got two minutes left, and I want to talk about the book, but then it doesn't look like the war is going to end.
	They're building all these permanent bases, calling them embassies.
	The name's been destroyed.
	They say we're going to be there forever.
	The other political candidates say, well, we'll keep some troops there.
	It looks to me like what you said a year ago is happening.
	They're not going to change course.
	Uh, I think they won't change course unless the American voters come out and give a very strong message.
	You know, we're spending $12 billion up front every month that we're in Iraq, but actually the total cost, which includes the disabilities, about 40% of the people coming back from Iraq are disabled, some with absolutely horrible disabilities.
	When you start including all the other costs, it's about twice that.
	Anybody who says, stay the course, has to say how we're going to be able to afford $25 billion a month.
	But even that doesn't take into account the full cost, because at the beginning of the war, we were spending $4 billion a month.
	Now we're up to $12 billion.
	The longer we stay, the monthly charge goes up.
	So we're going to be, you know, staying there every month is going to cost more and more and more.
	Sir, we're out of time.
	Just absolutely incredible.
	Stay right there.
	I'd like to speak to you for one moment when the show ends here on the network.
	Retransmission starts right now at InfoWars.com.
	I've got to get you back up on the show because I want to find out what your take is.
	I respect it.
	If it's not going to end, then what will become of us?
	Okay.
	Going back to you, Mr. Stiglitz, just here at the end, I mean, your real take on all this, it doesn't look like to me that they're going to change course or stop, and that this is really just a giant looting enterprise that's going on, and that everything's gone completely criminal.
	Well, I think, I mean, what you're saying is, you know, we're a rich country, we can afford it.
	Uh, in the sense that we aren't going to go bankrupt overnight, but it's very corrosive and our living standards will be going down.
	And what's particularly hard is the impact on the average American, the median American, the person in the middle.
	Income today is lower than it was in 1999.
	And the fact that the more and more we spend on the waste in this war, the lower and lower their income is going to be.
	And we don't have the money to invest it.
	Well, I mean, you didn't feel good a year ago about what they were doing to stop this.
	Do you feel good now?
	Do you think they're going to fix it?
	Uh, no.
	I feel more and more depressed, but I do, quite frankly, I am optimistic that if Obama gets elected, he knows that he has to change things.
	But you're not confident about Hillary and McCain?
	Well, I know about McCain.
	He's made it very clear.
	Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran?
	Exactly.
	So I think that one can anticipate that if he gets involved, things could get much worse.
	Well, Mr. Stiglitz, I don't want to abuse your time.
	I want to thank you for the time you've spent with us, and maybe I can have you back up a little bit sooner than a year, so we can really flesh it.
	Sure, let's do that.
	Well, thank you so much, and thanks for writing the book.
	Okay, great.
	Take care.
	You bet.
	John, good job to you guys at the network.
	I want to let you get disconnected so other stuff can come up.
	And I want to thank the folks here running things.
	I'll see you this Sunday, 4 to 6 p.m.
	and back live next Monday, folks.
	And we're bringing you the best guests, the best info, all of it right here.
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	We're in very, very serious times.
	You just heard him say worse than what he thought last year.
	He talked about depression last year.
	And the fourth hour is over now.
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	That retransmission starts right now at InfoWars.com.
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	Take care, John.
	Take care, we'll see you on Monday.