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Filename: 20080215_Fri_Alex.mp3
Air Date: Feb. 15, 2008
2296 lines.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Coming up in the next segment, we're going to have Paul Grudy on.
He was the head of the funeral home that took in the body of who they claimed was Lee Harvey Oswald.
They then, the government came in and made him put his handprints, fingerprints, on the Mangler-Kirkano rifle that they claimed shot Kennedy.
Three shots in six seconds.
So we're going to have Mr. Grudy in studio coming up in about six minutes.
After this quick break, we're going to talk to Mr. Grudy on air about 30 minutes.
In the last 15-20 minutes, if you have specific questions about the JFK assassination and his story, then you're absolutely welcome to call in as well.
I'm, of course, making a documentary about the JFK assassination, interviewing St.
John Hunt, interviewing Jim Mars and others, and we're so honored to have Mr. Grudy in studio with us.
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Now, as I said, in closing, we're going to come back and get into the JFK assassination with just an amazing eyewitness, and I'm very kind, very nice person.
I enjoyed meeting his son, who I saw at a talk fest this weekend.
I enjoyed meeting Mr. Grudy.
And, of course, also he has his wife here with him today, and she's just a sweetheart.
So it's great to have this gentleman here with us.
He enlisted in the United States Army and became a chaplain assistant and then surgical technician.
And that was in World War II.
My goodness, these guys are so great.
It's always good just to be able to talk to a World War II vet.
Both my grandfathers are now gone.
And one of them was a B-17 gunner.
And the other was in fighter planes, but I probably wouldn't be here, though.
He crashed pretty early in the war, and so he got injured and got out of it quick.
Because I know my other grandfather almost got killed in those B-17s.
So I guess a hand to God there, you never know what happens in things, so you'll be around.
Because did you know on a lot of those missions, they would lose half of their aircraft?
That's how dangerous it was going into Italy, going into Germany, going into the Balkans, up against the Nazis.
Both my grandfathers, again, were in the European theater of operations.
Even worse or as bad out there, of course, in the Pacific.
So we'll get him to talk a little bit about that.
He's seen quite a few things.
He's Paul Grudy.
On the other side of this quick break, right here on the GCN Radio Network.
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Paul Grudy was born in Washington, Kansas on February 22, 1919.
George Washington's birthday.
After high school and college, Paul graduated from the Williams Institute of Mortuary Science.
He enlisted in the United States Army and became a chaplain's assistant and then a surgical technician.
After being honorably discharged, he returned to civilian life to build cemeteries, homes, and mortuaries.
Paul was the licensed undertaker and funeral director in charge of the burial, subsequent exhumation, exhuming, and reburial of Lee Harvey Oswald.
And he retired at 85 years of age, and he is...
He is as sharp as a tack, and we are honored to have him here in studio with us.
Mr. Groody, thanks for being here.
I'm just glad to do it.
We appreciate the fact that after all these years, we can still talk about it and enjoy the fact that it is something that the public is still interested in.
Tell us about growing up, World War II, a little bit about yourself and then how you got into the mortuary business leading up to the tragic assassination in 1963.
My father happened to be a part of the family that had a mortuary in Ohio.
And because of that background, I was inclined, and my brother was also inclined, to become a mortician.
Being around the business, we might say, for 75 years, that's a long time to be in anything, and it's only those who are honestly dedicated that can be in this business, because we're at a service level.
All the time.
We are the ones that had to do what most folks didn't really ever want to do, and that was to go to a home or to go where somebody had died or been killed.
We're the ones that had to clean up that sort of mess that always exists around that kind of death.
Continuing from there, so you were trained as a mortician before you went to World War II?
I was a licensed embalmer and funeral director.
You have to get a license to do so.
I had a lot of bodies.
Matter of fact, in the Williams Institute of Mortuary Sciences, it was required that we deal with at least eight mortars.
...autopsies and bodies.
I happened to be so easily accessible and so interested in it, I had 88 instead of just 8.
Because of my background there, I ended up in the medical field with the Army, and because of that, every pathologist that ever came around and was in a base hospital, wherever we were stationed in the States or overseas,
They would hunt me up because I could assist that pathologist with an autopsy whereas to find somebody who had that kind of background, it was a little unusual.
And then you got even more training in World War II.
You were in the Pacific Theater?
We were the infantry regiment that were the ones that fought in the bulge.
So you were in the European Theater?
Yes, we were European Theater.
We ended up going into Le Havre, going through France and up into Germany, fought the Germans.
And at that time, we knew it was winding down because the Germans were running out of...
Thank you.
Because of the fact that they were winding down, it didn't make a lot of difference, but a German Red Cross agent, one who was an honest-to-goodness medic like I was, came across the line and said, Sergeant, can I end up working with you guys because we know we're ending the war?
He was using perfect English, and I said, how come you can talk such good?
Oh, he said, I've been to the States, I've been around, my family's been around, and he said, if I could work with you guys, I would sure like that.
And I said, come on, we always could use extra help, because we were still in the war.
We were still fighting, they were still shooting at us.
Do you know that the Red Cross man, who is the representative of the American Red Cross, was a part of our outfit?
He lost his Jeep, and this young German found out about it, and he told the man, he said, you lost your Jeep?
He said, yeah, it blew up, and I hit a mine, and it tore it up.
He said, I don't have a vehicle.
He said, you just sit still a while.
He said, I'll be back.
He went across the line, went over to the motor pool on the German side, and came driving back in a great, great German Mercedes Jeep.
I mean, so this gave you even more training in death, in firearms, in what the ballistics of a bullet going through flesh look like.
I mean, I don't want to make you tell any war stories, but what were some of the most amazing or harrowing things that you saw while you were in Europe?
Well, of course, they were bringing me not only the Americans who had been injured and hit by ammunition or by a bomb or whatever.
They were bringing that through my aid station, and we would take care of the best we could.
Then we'd send them back to the base where they needed to go to get further help.
It was a matter of most fantastic that these boys were treated on the scene by my guys who were my medics out in the field and it was remarkable that they did save their lives and of course we were taking care of the Germans as much as we were the Americans because after all and those German boys who all said the same thing said we're sure glad you came along because you're going to get rid of Hitler and they didn't like it either.
That they had this battle to fight.
But if they spoke out against Hitler, they got executed.
That's it.
That's it.
And, of course, we didn't know what happened to them after we sent them back, but they were taken care of, that's for sure.
And after all these years, I found out that a lot of us at that time were never treated for the fact that the bombs going off and the ammunition that was used and the type of...
Death that we saw and the bad stuff stuck in our minds and they didn't recognize this.
Only now they do for the boys that are over in Iraq.
That they really realize that they're committing suicide and they are not being, they had a problem.
But we, back in those days, had no help whatsoever.
They didn't know that we were affected by the bombs and by the
The death that was around us.
Your grandpa was in the air.
I saw them up in the air and fly over us and some of those planes were in bad shape because they had been riddled and hit.
We ended up going all the way across Germany
Clear across Czechoslovakia, up to Czechoslovakia.
Now, that was 1,300 miles away from Laharv.
They put us aboard little boxcars and took us back.
That was 1,300 miles.
Something that affected me at the time that still carries over.
Do you know our car had a flat wheel?
It was thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump all day long for that 1,300 miles.
And to realize today, when I go to a grocery store and get a cart and it's got a bumpy wheel, man, I get rid of that booger.
I can't stand.
So this something carries over all these years later, realizing it was that many years later.
It's amazing.
Now, when we're going to break, I want to come back and get directly into the JFK assassination and the part you play in that whole saga and story that is now coming to a head finally and closure today.
Paul Grudy, what were you doing on that horrible day in 1963 when the president was killed?
We were at the funeral home in Fort Worth.
And I was managing that theater home.
Secret Service called me and said, You are Paul Grudy.
We have checked into the records and found that you are a licensed sportician, that you did fight in the bones since you fought in the war.
Secret Service said you come to Dallas and get the body of this man because we want your kind of guy to help us get the job done of Paul.
Of knowing that this man was embalmed and buried properly, and that's how we did it.
Now, we did go to Dallas.
I did go to Dallas and pick up his body, brought him back to funeral home in Fort Worth, embalmed that body, made arrangements, and buried him.
But a part of that that I think is so important, do you know the general public talks about
Lee Harvey Oswald doing this, I know his mother or knew his mother because she's gone.
She never was convinced that it was really Lee Harvey.
His brother, his wife, the two babies, and of course one thing about it, to think that this guy was gone
We're good to go.
I think?
Took these two kids that they had and raised them, and they both graduated from the university, I understand, and they are such nice, wonderful girls and have their own families now, and it shows that this guy, I always said, you know, one nut showed up and shot the president, and the second nut showed up and shot him, and that was Ruby, Jack Ruby.
And now, I didn't know, but maybe there was a third nut out there was going to come and shoot The Undertaker.
Well, when we get back, I want to break down, I mean, as slowly as possible, as detailed as possible, Mr. Grudy.
I didn't know.
I want to walk through what happened that day, then when Oswald got killed, how the Secret Service had you come get his body, how they had you put the fingerprints on it and the rest of it, okay?
Ladies and gentlemen, we'll be right back after this quick break with Paul Grudy.
We're having the rest of the hour.
Very interesting history.
Stay with us.
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Paul Grudy is our guest.
He was a funeral home director.
They had come out and pick up the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.
He wanted to prove that it indeed was Oswald later because there have been debates about three guys with the same name, different people running around.
But the big issue here is the Secret Service came and had him put his palm print of the dead body of Lee Harvey Oswald on the Malinker Carcano rifle.
So if you can, Mr. Grudy, walk us through when you went and picked up his body and then later when they came back and had you put the palm print on there in as much detail as you can.
Just the fact that we knew good and well if they put a palm print on his hand that they would put the black...
...ink all over his hand, and I was concerned the fact that when they did that, I had to clean it up again because I was the one going to have to bury this guy, and I didn't want that black all over everything.
So it was a matter of asking them to be careful when they did this, but they came to my preparation room, as we call it, and did actually apply his hand onto that rifle to prove that that rifle had the...
We're good to go.
Brother said, this is Lee Harvey.
His wife said it was him.
Now, because of that, I had to type up a death certificate and file it because that is my job.
And I had to prove that it was really Lee Harvey Oswald, and that's why I was convinced it was Lee Harvey.
Now, who did the shooting?
I absolutely do not know.
But the Secret Service established the fact that they felt that that was who it was supposed to be.
I understand.
Let's walk through this now very slowly.
You'll go back in memory, Mr. Grudy.
You know, they come in, they take his hand, they put it where?
On the Mannlicher Carcano rifle and B.
Was this the rifle, did they tell you this was the rifle that Oswald supposedly had?
This is what they told me, that they wanted to do that because this was the rifle that they got from the schoolbook depository, and that was the one that Oswald was supposed to have used.
Now, we don't know, I have no knowledge of the fact, were they telling me the truth?
Well, that's where all this speculation can come from.
Could have been some drummed-up deal.
We don't know.
I have no idea.
But the one thing I had to establish was it wasn't really Lee Harvey.
So, therefore, I had the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.
They knew I had the body of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Describe the layout.
Now, first you got the body.
Was that the day after he was killed in Dallas, or when was that?
Well, he was killed that same day.
It was the day I went to Dallas after the autopsy had been performed, which is the following day after Ruby killed him.
So there was a lapse of one day.
Now, to know that Ruby did the shooting and I was on the inside of that body and I saw where the hole had been, where the bullet had gone in.
Now, the autopsy pathologist had saved that little...
Hunk of skin where the bullet went in.
Now, Ruby did that, and it was so quick.
There was an officer absolutely handcuffed to Oswald at the time.
On each side.
And therefore, him walking up and shooting like he did, remarkable that it missed the rib.
It would have ricocheted and changed direction and all of that.
But I saw where it went through the rib.
Between the ribs and lodged over on the other side of his body.
I saw all that, so I know that that's where Ruby had hit him.
What killed him?
What killed him, that's right.
It went through his inferior vena cava, his aorta, which are the big artery vein down your backbone.
It was definitely a lucky shot as far as Ruby was concerned.
Couldn't have been any...
And after all, I've been in this business, you know, for 75 years.
I've seen so much of that very thing.
Well, they say that the trauma medics see hundreds of times what any surgeon will ever see from gunshots from war.
And to know that my experience overseas and with the bodies and people I was around and with all the army camps where people had been accidentally killed and whatnot and all the autopsies I've been around, thousands of them, it's a
I saw what I saw, and I know that this guy was killed by Ruby.
Now, I don't know who else.
They couldn't have substituted a body on me.
They would not have come up with a body that quick.
And the reason you bring this up is because then there became a big controversy about was it Oswald or not.
Oswald or not.
Now, I buried him.
17 years later, the head of the British intelligence called me and said... Hold on, let's hear about this on the other side, okay?
We're going to come back with Paul Grudy on the other side.
We've got a break.
I want to go back again and have you go back to memory, exactly what the Secret Service said, what they had to do with the hand, then the former head of British intelligence calling you, the exhuming of the body.
We're going to talk about it all with Paul Grudy on the other side.
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We're good to go.
I think?
We're back live, ladies and gentlemen.
Paul Grudy was born in Washington, Kansas, February 22, 1919.
After high school and college, Paul graduated from Williams Institute of Mortuary Science.
He enlisted in the United States Army and became a chaplain's assistant in the Battle of the Bulge and then a surgical technician.
After being honorably discharged, he returned to civilian life.
To build cemeteries, homes, and mortuaries, Paul was the licensed undertaker at the funeral director in charge of the burial, subsequent exhumation, and reburial of Lee Harvey Oswald.
And you can just type Paul Grudy into the search engine and read all about him.
There are different encyclopedia entries, you name it, the Lee Harvey Oswald research page, and a lot more online by searching the keywords Paul Groody together.
Okay, Paul, this is such a big deal.
I want to walk through this slower.
Describe that day, what you've been doing, if you remember, when the Secret Service came in, what they said to you, where the body was, what they had the rifle in, what they said the rifle was.
In detail, as much detail as you can give us, walk through it slowly.
Alex, I knew that we were probably going to be harassed.
When I would walk out back of the funeral home, we counted 1,300 cameras back there behind us in our parking lot.
We knew we would be harassed.
When the Secret Service said, we're coming and we're going to want to make a print off of the hand of the man that you have, and we're going to blacken his hand and all, and I said, well, you've got to be careful back there because I'm going to bury him and I don't want that black all over all his clothes and everything.
So they did.
They were careful.
Now, they took a handprint.
And took his hand and put it against the butt of the rifle that was supposed to be the rifle that this man used.
I don't know if it was the real one or what it was.
Do you remember their names?
How were they holding it?
Was it in a box?
No, it was in a case.
It was in a case.
So they came in and took it out?
Took it out and blackened his hand and pressed his hand on the butt of that gun exactly as a man would hold it.
A dead human remains that had been embalmed, which I did, and did a little more than normal as far as embalming was concerned, because I knew they might want to look at him again in the future, because that would be hard to really get a good print.
So we don't know how good a print.
Because of rigor mortis?
Oh, yeah.
And because of embalming.
Talk about rigor mortis.
Well, Riger will set in shortly after death.
When it does, everything has become rigid and firm.
You can tell how long a body has been gone.
Life is out of a body because if Riger had not been set in, it doesn't take long for it to finally begin to set in and then to move arms and legs and the body.
Are humans similar to dogs?
Because I had my Boston Terrier died a few months ago and I buried him.
Just an hour and a half later, and he was already getting stiff.
That's right.
This is a part of what happens to people, and that's what happened in combat.
Boys that had been hit, and we didn't know how long they'd been hit, but we knew that Ryger had said he'd been hit sometime earlier.
So you never know what's going on.
But we definitely knew that they were going to do this
And I was careful to make sure that they would do it in a manner that would be proper and they did.
It seemed like to me... So where was his body described?
Well, we have...
And I think this is an interesting tale.
Alex, there was a man that passed away in a rest home by the name of Bobo.
Mr. Bobo and the lady who was in charge of the rest home said, "'Mr.
Bobo died, and Paul, would you come and get his body and embalm him and bury him?'
And I said, I'll do it.
And she said, now he had four $100 bills in his boot because he was an old cowboy and the boot had a hole in it and it had four holes.
That's a bigger hole, smaller, smaller, smaller in the $100 bills.
He had four $100 bills and that was to bury him with.
Those are the bills I used to bury that old man.
Now, knowing good and well that I had Bobo on table one, I moved Bobo to table two and put Oswald on table one.
Everybody that looked, they would say, is that Oswald?
I would say, because I'd open the door to go in there, and they'd say, is that Oswald?
I'd say, no, that's Mr. Bobo.
And all this time, I used Bobo to hide the fact that I had Oswald.
Because we didn't know what was going to happen to us.
We do good and well that if Secret Service came, they would come and they went to table one where Oswald was, put that hand mark on him.
We don't know how it turned out.
We don't know what happened to the gun.
But you were there.
You saw them put the hand mark.
Oh, there's no question about it that that's what they did.
Oh, yes.
Well, I mean, obviously, here's the issue.
They then ran out and told the media that they'd found his fingerprints on the gun.
Can you speak about that?
I have no knowledge of that.
Well, you know the Warren Commission and others then said that his fingerprints had been found on the gun.
Yes, that's right.
Can you speak about that?
Well, if they found that, that's what they were doing.
They were making sure that his fingerprints were on the gun to prove that he was the one that actually used the gun and to definitely make him to be the one who did the killing of President Kennedy.
Does that look suspicious to you?
Well, we've often wondered, really, if they were covering up, was it some connection?
And Mama Oswald always said that.
His mother always said, I don't believe that was my son that did the shooting, that it could have been somebody else.
Now, they had claimed they were coming to get his fingerprints, but then they were trying to put the rigor mortis hand with the ink on the gun.
Did you say, hey, why are you doing that?
Well, no, I didn't question them.
It was all right with me, whatever they did, just as long as they cleaned it up after they got through.
How many Secret Service men?
If I remember, it was three.
And I'm not too sure that it was exactly Secret Service.
It could have been some other branch of FBI or something else.
But they said they were Secret Service.
They said they were Secret Service.
But they showed me badges, so they proved that they were the people.
But you never know this day and time who's who when you are around that sort of thing.
And after all, I've been around it.
Ambulance business was a part of our business, too, and being around that all the time, we were questioned.
No question about it, we had to check and make sure we were talking to a real policeman or whatever it might be.
How long did it take you to get the ink off his hands?
Well, I don't remember now, but of course we have cosmetics, and I felt as though the cosmetics would probably cover it up, and it did pretty well cover everything up.
We didn't have any real problem with it because his hand is down and covered up with the way you keep a hand.
Did they have an open casket at this funeral?
Actually, the parents and the brother, the mother, and the brother and the wife, they got to see him, but the rest of the public did not.
Now, why was his body later exhumed?
We know a controversy erupted because there had been three different people using Oswald's name.
There had been a police officer who looked just like him who had been shot.
I mean, is that why it led to the exhumation?
You'd also talked about former head of British intelligence calling you.
You left off there, but start over.
Mr. Bobo, I mean...
Michael Eddowes is an English author that wrote a book about it.
And because of that, they wanted to know if I could disinter his remains so they could look at him again.
So this is what the process was.
And Mr. Bobo said,
I mean, Mr. Eddowes, Michael Eddowes, said that he was going to come over and that he'd pay the bill if they'd dig him up.
And I said, well, if you're going to pay the bill, I'll get a permit, and I did.
I went to the wife, went to Marina, and got her to do it.
She's a lovely, lovely person.
By the way, she believes it was a government op.
Yes, they are all...
You know, we had her number, but then she got divorced and moved out of the Dallas area.
Are you still in contact with her?
No, not at all.
We're trying to get in contact with her if somebody can help us.
Even Mars doesn't know how to get a hold of her now.
I talked to her just a few years ago, and now I've lost contact.
She doesn't like to be bothered about it.
I'll guarantee you that.
She's very nice people, and just one of those things that I have no reason to...
Hunter Upper.
Now, you mentioned the former head of British intelligence.
Start over.
We ran out of time.
Start over.
He called me and wanted to know if I could disinter.
And I said I could.
So that's who was writing the book, was the former head of British intelligence.
Yes, right.
And he said, I'll pay the bill if you need me.
So I did.
I got the permit.
I went to the state and got my permit signed.
The man who helped me get it done, Mr. Carroll was in charge, and I knew him from experience.
He gave me a permit.
I went out, dug him up, brought his vault to the surface.
When we opened the vault,
It was a steel reinforced concrete wall.
It weighed 2,700 pounds, so it's not just a little flimsy thing.
It was broken, and we don't know why.
And because of the fact that... What did the mark look like?
Well, it was a typical dead human remains, I'll guarantee you that.
No, but I mean... It had been recently... I mean, it had originally been broken.
It seemed like shortly after I buried him...
Now, one tale that goes with this that I think is interesting, if nothing else, the man who ran the cemetery, he committed suicide some years later.
And I said, I knew that man.
I can't believe that he would commit suicide.
Doctor was in charge, the pathologist that had done the autopsy on that guy.
I said, how did he die?
He said he committed suicide.
And I said, what did he use?
He said he used a knife.
I said, a knife to commit suicide?
Yes, 17 stab wounds.
Have you ever experienced that?
To commit suicide.
That's not possible.
He evidently knew too much about who got into that grave after I buried him.
We don't know what happened or why they wanted in the grave.
Who's going to prove what?
Were they going to steal body parts or what are they going to do?
We have no knowledge.
From that has stemmed a lot of...
Who he was, was it Oswald, really, and this sort of thing.
I know, I buried Lee Harvey.
Now, let's be specific about this vault.
Was this a concrete sarcophagi that had another coffin inside of it?
Yes, it had the casket inside of it.
Can you detail the materials?
I mean, talk about the larger sarcophagi and the smaller sarcophagi.
Well, now, the smaller is not anything that's sealed.
The cheap casket is what it really was.
It's a number 31 from the casket cup.
Is that water metal?
Wood and cloth-covered wood.
Very inexpensive as far as caskets go.
Now, because of that, I did not spend a lot of money for that family.
Robert, the brother, said, I won't pay the bills.
I said...
How are you going to pay for it?
He said, I have $800.
I said, I'm not going to use it all.
I only spent $710.
That was three grave spaces.
That was a casket.
That was a funeral.
That was everything.
Why put it inside the concrete?
Well, that's how you do.
With a steel reinforced concrete vault that has a lid.
So it's a big box made out of steel.
We're good to go.
I think?
Matter of fact, the lid that was on that was one of the lids that I... That's right.
You're quite an entrepreneur.
So is your son.
Well, been into a lot of things.
Building cemeteries, building homes, building buildings and all.
We definitely knew that if we dug him up, it ought to be all right.
But it turned out that vault was actually broken and they're not supposed to break.
Now, let's talk about that vault plan.
How was it broken?
What did it look like?
Did it look like it had been jimmied to you?
Say that in your own words.
Well, the fact that when we put it into the grave, it was solid, it was cured, it was solid concrete, it was not anything cheap.
It's a good heavy-weighted thing.
When we...
Well, the sides are cracked, and the lid, the part of the casket was off to the side inside.
The body had been disturbed, no question.
So it looked like this had been done hurriedly.
That's absolutely true.
And then the man who was running the facility, he magically died.
Yes, yes, yes.
At 17 stab wounds.
Yes, that was... Supposed suicide.
Yes, suicide.
We've had people have their arms and legs cut off, and they claim it's suicide.
Well, yeah, there's no question about it.
Being in my business all these years, I've seen a lot of things, and that's one thing we always kind of wonder about.
I wonder how they get local police to certify that people shoot themselves twice in the back of the head and cut their arms and legs and head off.
Some Clinton people had that happen to them.
Is that the truth?
They could find me with all the input, cutting 50 pieces, and they'd say I did it.
And do you know who takes care of all of that?
The poor undertaker.
I have been there hundreds and hundreds of times because we are the ones that have to go clean up the mess with a suicide or with a murder and all of that.
So you have to respect the old guy who's been at it.
It's a tough job.
I couldn't imagine having to do it.
You have to have a strong stomach, I'll tell you.
And because of the fact that people now here just heard it this morning, somebody's going to have to have an autopsy.
I know what takes place.
My wife asked me the other day when I heard somebody talking about it.
She said, you're sure quiet.
And I said, well, I'm going through what they're probably going through with this autopsy they're going to perform.
Let's go back to, so the wooden coffin was open inside, the larger sarcophagus had the top knocked off.
What did the body, what was the condition of the body?
Well, it's a typical 17 years of being exposed to the elements is the way it turned out.
Because by simply opening it, it destroyed the room.
That's it.
Can you speak to that probably being the end?
Well, just the fact that if I go out into the woods and get a body that's been out in the woods a long time, you know it's going to end up to be nothing but a skeleton because that's all that is left.
And it's nearly always disturbed and distributed around in the area.
But if they've left intact, their jaw is down on their chest.
of that kind of thing can happen, and this was what it looked like when we got there this after 17 years.
Somebody wanted something, and if they were in there just maliciously, they didn't know what they were doing.
That's the way I figured it at the time.
I said, what in the world are they digging down here and trying to do this for?
What good is it to have the
But if they didn't want somebody to be able to exhume it and do another autopsy to really find out identity or something, they'd want it to rot.
That's it.
That's it.
We knew good and well that somebody had been there and didn't know what they were doing.
Was their clothing left or was it all left?
Well, that clothing isn't, after that many years, is gone.
It's nothing but shreds anyway.
And they, we took that body after the autopsy.
I mean, after we'd exhumed it.
We took him to Parkland, where a pathologist and the assistants and all took care of it and made a total record of what it appeared to be.
And the weird part of it was, this man had been autopsied, therefore his skull had been capped.
So that the brain was removed.
They have his brain someplace.
I put the cap back on and sealed up his head again.
Now, that head looked like it had never been autopsied, because when I seal him up, I seal him up.
In other words, I glue that back on pretty well, and therefore, I didn't want it sliding around, because it'll make it crease right across the forehead, if that's the case.
So I...
Hooked it in there pretty good.
Was it the same skull?
I say it was the same skull.
But there could be the question.
Since you couldn't see a whole lot of that existing.
With the new autopsy, or new at least report.
But you're saying you couldn't even see the cut?
No, you can't see the cut when it's after 17 years.
It's going to seal itself back up.
We'll be right back, Mr. Grooney.
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You'll be able to go and link through when the show ends and hear Paris, more than 4 million albums sold, his maiden voyage interview with us.
Then we have the latest info from the Ron Paul campaign.
We're the head of the campaign joining us.
Ron Paul's going to be on next week, a week after that.
We're lining that up right now for you as well.
And, of course, I'll be back live this Sunday out of KLBJ 590 here in Austin and syndicated in great places like Kansas City, KCAA going into San Diego, and about 18 other affiliates.
The show's really growing.
We appreciate everybody tuning in to the Sunday show, 4 to 6 p.m.
Central, 5 to 7 p.m.
But you can also listen if you don't have an AM or FM affiliate at Infowars.com as well.
We'll be rebroadcast of this show when it ends in about four minutes until Sunday evening when we go live again at 4 o'clock Central.
So the show restarts here in about five minutes at Infowars.com.
At the streams, people say, well, where are these streams?
You go to Infowars.com.
It says Mainstream, Backup Stream, Low Bitrate Stream.
It restreams there 24 hours a day after the show ends in just a few minutes.
Paul Grudy, I'm going to come out to your home interview.
You've been gracious enough out there.
I'm told it's beautiful out by the Oasis over Lake Travis, across from the Oasis.
Wow, that's beautiful over there.
I can't wait to come out and see you next week.
Your wife is lovely and wonderful.
We've got about three minutes left.
Any other points you want to add?
Anything else you want to talk about?
Anything you want to plug?
Any websites?
Anything else you want to, you know, final word for the listeners?
I really am happy, Alex, to leave all that good stuff to you because you have it.
It's what it takes to get the job done.
Knowing good and well that we talked.
Just the other day, my wife is a full-blooded Swede, and her grandparents came from Sweden, settled out by Round Rock, out by Huddo, had property out there, the Westberg family.
The owner of this network is a Swede.
Of Minnesota.
That's good.
They are great people, and because my wife...
And I went to the museum in Round Rock, I mean in Georgetown, which now is set up, shows all of the old stuff.
And of course, these Swedes came over here because of the potato.
Famine that was going on, so many of them, like the Irish did too, and that's where my family came from.
I got a little bit of everything in there.
Yeah, we have a river in Ireland by the name of the Groody River, a bridge over it, the Groody Bridge, and a roundabout to get to it.
So we know it's the Groody Roundabout, so we know the name Groody over there.
Folks know it, not over here, because we're strangers.
You were telling me about your daughter, too.
She's one of those guys.
Well, our daughter happens to be a part of the displayed apartment of a little outpost, Anheuser-Busch, taking care of the... She puts on all their big events for some reason.
Well, SeaWorlds and Busch Gardens and that sort of thing.
She runs all that.
Yeah, she's display person.
And your son's pretty successful here in town.
Well, our son has built homes forever, as we did, too.
I recognized your son when I met him.
I've seen him on the scene places.
Yeah, he's...
The fact that Don has designed homes and has built himself one up on the top of a mountain in Lago Vista.
Well, really, Jonestown.
And he's got a mansion up there that's a gorgeous thing.
You guys are a classy family, and I really am honored to count you as friends.
Mr. Grudy, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for being here.
Now, you're the guy you are.
You're great.
I appreciate it.
I want to say hi to your son.
I know he's listening right now and say hi to everybody else.
Mr. Gritty, thank you for joining us.
Okay, buddy.
Ladies and gentlemen, we're out of time.
The show restarts again.
If you missed any of the first hour with Paris or the Ron Paul information, that restarts now.
You go to InfoWars.com and there's the streams right there.
Powerful info if you missed it coming up.
I want to thank all the listeners, all the affiliates, all the sponsors.
And don't run off, Mr. Groody.
I want to shake your hand and say bye to you and your wife.
And also make sure I get your address right to come out and interview you next week for the JFK film.
This is Alex Jones signing off.
God bless you all.
We shall prevail against tyranny.
Retransmission starts now.
See you Sunday.
Thank you for listening to GCN.
Visit GCNlive.com today.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
All right, if you go to the prisonplanet.com forum and go halfway down, it says... Well, there's a link there.
Let me go back to the actual link.
At the top of it, it says if you find... When you find Social Work 101 Family as a Disease System posted here.
This has only been going about an hour and a half.
And I've read over a bunch of quotes and things that I hadn't seen that back up what we're saying.
But I did find one that I do remember reading.
Because listeners mail me these books, and we have a lot of professors and scholars and researchers that listen to the show.
And it says, Sociology, A Brief Introduction.
And by the way, just during the break, I googled this and found the opening introduction online, because Amazon does that, and did indeed find it, because I'm not just going to read this unless I can go prove it myself.
But this is, and I've seen this before, now this is on page 285, discusses the approach to family of conflict theorists.
Conflict theorists also view the family as an economic unit that contributes to social injustice.
The family is the basis for transferring power, property, and privilege from one generation to the next.
Conflict theorists argue that the family helps to maintain inequity.
So see, there.
The family is bad.
This is over and over again.
Now, we haven't found the one textbook because it's five, six years ago.
And maybe it was the same night I covered things with Bob.
A lot of these are already on the web.
Maybe you can find the listeners.
The same night I covered it with Bob.
Might have been right around the same time.
And maybe that's why my memory says it was from Bob, because I got a textbook.
There were photocopies.
I had to give it back.
It was Calhoun, social work reader, something like that.
Find it!
Now, we can disprove that I don't talk about space aliens, as this guy says.
We can disprove that the government isn't at odds with the family.
That's well known they are.
But I want the exact quote he's saying doesn't exist.
I will find it.
Bob, in the few minutes we've got left, do you want to read that specific Harvard psychologist statement again?
It came from, really, it's all, you know, if somebody wants to really know what it's all about, it's UNESCO, and they had a 1947 book called Towards World Understanding.
You know, and in that book, on page 58, they say, quote, as we have pointed out, it is frequently the family that infects the child with extreme nationalism.
The school should therefore use the means described earlier to combat family attitudes.
That's all coming from, you know, UNESCO, UN stuff.
Now, see how it says they're mentally ill, they're infected?
That's the same as saying disease, but I'm telling you there's one where they call the family.
In fact, read the whole quote from start to finish.
Okay, this is the quote from Chester M. Pierce, 1973.
A professor of education at Harvard in 1973 at a Denver education conference, quote,
Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity.
It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well by creating the international child of the future.
End quote.
There you go.
By the way, I've now found the textbook.
It's been posted by one of the people in there.
Alex mentioned this, that the name was Calhoun.
On Amazon, I found this.
Dictionary of Social Sciences.
Craig Calhoun, editor.
Then it says, do any of these book titles look familiar?
Yes, they do.
Contemporary Sociology Theory.
Classical Sociology Theory.
Contemporary Sociology Theory.
Blackwell Readers in Sociology.
That all sounds familiar.
It goes on social theory and politics of identity, nationalism, concepts, and social thought.
I think it's the one that's Blackwell readers.
And I want to say it's a Calhoun reader.
Maybe like a condensed version, but it was a pretty good-sized book.
Bob Dacey, thank you for the incredible job.
Anything else you want to add?
That's it, Alex.
Keep after him, my friend.
Tell folks when the local TV show's on.
It's on from 6 to 7 Monday nights on Channel 10.
It's also simpletruthonline.net.
You can watch it anytime.
And the great work of Jeff Cantuff.
What a super guy.
All right.
We'll be right back.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
All right, in the last hour, we gave footnoted quotes about how the family is a sickness, the children are mentally ill, they have a disease, basically.
I have now tracked down who this particular Calhoun sociologist was, talking about the family being a disease.
We're vetting all that out.
The mountains of quotes and evidence.
But I thought I would... This is what my classic detractors are like.
This is off YouTube.
This is the standard thing.
He implies... I'm not going to play the whole piece.
He implies that he is going to school.
He hasn't read any of the books when he's in school.
So he's obviously taking that career path.
He says that I never footnote or never give where something comes from.
I do over and over again.
Again, I'll say, four years ago, MSNBC, Mexican Attorney General takes microchip, makes employees take it.
And then years later, I'll say the Mexican Attorney General made his employees take it.
You can just say, oh, that's a lie.
He didn't give us a place to find it.
Use Google, man.
Go read it.
I talk about civilian inmate labor camp programs and secret camp program from 86 to 96, which they declassified in 96.
It's an army.mil.
Just type civilian inmate labor camp program in.
Find out about how they secretly have federal and state prisoners on these.
I mean, I got Senate hearings talking about the secret camp program.
It's now mainstream news.
Decade after I talked about it.
Look, we don't make anything up.
But it's a classic attack saying we don't tell the truth or we're full of it.
So I thought I'd play a few minutes of this and then refute it with Charlotte Iserby, head of policy, Department of Education under Ronald Reagan.
Herself, quite esteemed degrees and background in civil service internationally.
And then, of course, her father, Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove as well.
So, you know, pretty high-powered family.
From inside the intelligentsia, blowing the whistle from the inside out, we'll be talking to this dear, wonderful lady who wrote the bombshell definitive work, Deliberate Dumbing Down, in just one moment.
But first, here is the creature on YouTube, standard attack pattern, just putting out pure bull.
Hello there, YouTube.
This is The Scientist, and I'm doing a video response to the Alex Jones Family and Socialism thing.
First off, I want to say that Alex Jones is nuts.
This is the same guy who does Prison Planet, and we all know it for gems like aliens are invading, you know, Bush is an alien.
It's just weird, off-the-wall crap like that, and this video is
Perfect example of what this guy is all about.
Absolutely perfect.
I just spelled it out for you.
First of all, why are police and social workers in a children's classroom bad?
And I don't think they mean like right in the classroom, but working with teachers, I don't know why that would be a bad thing.
I mean, you know, schools are in and of themselves
Okay, hit pause.
So he impeaches me with saying I believe Bush is an alien and aliens are invading.
Never said it.
Anything close to it.
UFOs are prosada non grata on this broadcast, okay?
Then he goes into, oh, guilty until proven innocent.
Yeah, we need these spies watching everybody.
That's what he's saying.
But he just thinks it's normal because he's brought up in this system.
Let's go back to this little soft creature.
So, this is taking me a little bit further.
And I don't know why he's saying social, you know, social work came from England.
Social work has kind of evolved over probably thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years, from charity and ancient times.
You would have
Special groups of people who are going to do food for the poor.
It was a religious thing back then.
It's not so much a religious thing now, but I think to the first institutionalization of that, technically, yes, it was in England as the poor law, but how he got from the poor law to social work, I'm not quite sure.
And he's talking about, oh, no, it started, he's like, it started in England.
And then the very same group in Prussia
Let's stop right there.
Simultaneously, the eugenicists taking the theory of Darwinism to social Darwinism.
I'm not having a debate about Darwinism.
Then I get attacked for that.
I'm saying that the facts, what they said, okay, what sociology, all of this was born out of, eugenics was the key.
It went across the board in these sciences.
And, of course, the British royal family was German.
They then adopted the Prussian model.
The United States adopted it, and the colonial army as well.
And they merged the two.
So, see, he's playing games with it there.
They developed these sciences in tandem and then integrated them, as the sciences do, across the Atlantic.
And then, of course, came into the United States.
And then he goes in to say, I never sourced anything, or I never gave any proof of anything.
Let's go back to it in Charlotte, Iserby.
All right, stop him again.
I have to say something.
It's acknowledged that modern education, kindergarten, the structure of rote, the five to six class periods, the specialization, the regurgitation and repeating, that's the Prussian model.
The prison system is based predominantly on the panopticon French model that rose in the last 250 years.
I mean, I actually read the textbooks on this.
You didn't, little boy, or you didn't remember it.
Back to it.
That was German.
He's trying to link the idea of social work to Prussia, which he then makes to Germany.
Prussia is not Germany.
Prussia became Germany, but Prussia and Germany are not...
All right, stop right there.
It's part of the whole Austrian-Hungarian empire.
It's part of the same culture.
It was called Germania 2,067 years ago by Julius Caesar.
I just can't go any further.
Charlotte, what do you think of that?
Well, I don't know.
That sort of comment is just so disjointed and off the wall.
I mean, the guy has got bits and pieces that he hooks together to try to make a point.
I wouldn't take it very seriously, Alex.
If that's all you ever have going up against you, that sort of pathetic reasoning, you know, you're lucky.
But that's the type of moron level that connects with some of the public.
Well, I wonder if it really does.
Let me point this out.
My book's been out for...
Since 1999, and I believe I've had, to be perfectly honest, two calls in when I've done interviews.
I've been doing them since then, radio.
Two calls where I was absolutely attacked, and it was by a couple of educators, you know, principals or superintendents.
Only two!
In what?
Eight years.
Yeah, everybody knows people have been dumbed down and this has been the process.
Yeah, but all the other calls, I want to make it very clear that you are correct on whatever you've been saying there.
I've had a lot of calls from educators, public school educators, superintendents, sometimes even commissioners of educators, and they're all totally supportive.
Of getting the facts out.
Some of them didn't even know them themselves.
And there are these absolutely wild quotes.
I mean, I put together some for you today, but I guess you don't need them.
Oh, yes, we need them.
Go over them when you like.
We need them.
You can just... I mean, I always think of, if I only have one second or 30 seconds, the most important quote, because it comes from...
Benjamin Bloom, Professor Bloom's behavioral psychologist, who really is behind the whole dog training method that is necessary for workforce training.
He died a few years ago, but he admits it.
He says the purpose of education in the schools is to change the thoughts, feelings, and actions of students.
Folks, from what?
From what the parent is trying to instill, from what the church is trying to instill.
That's the definition right there, the purpose.
Then he goes on to say, a large part of what we call good teaching is the teacher's ability to attain effective objectives through, that means attitudes, values, and beliefs change, through challenging the student's fixed beliefs and
And getting them to discuss issues.
Now, there it is.
Then you have the 1945 treaty, UNESCO.
Kindergarten or infant school can correct many of the errors of home training and prepare for membership in the world society.
It is in the family that children are infected with nationalism.
And you have Dr. Chester Pierce in the 70s, Harvard.
Every child in America who enters school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with an allegiance toward our elected officials, toward our founding fathers, toward our institutions, toward the preservation of this form of government that we have.
Patriotism, nationalism, and sovereignty, all that proves that children are sick because a truly well individual is one who is rejected,
All of those things, and it's truly the international child of the future.
Then you have major change agent, I consider him number one in the world, John Goodlad, schooling for a global age.
Parents and the general public must be reached also.
Otherwise, children and youth enrolled in globally oriented programs may find themselves in conflict with values assumed in the home.
And then the education institution frequently, not often enough I might say, comes under scrutiny and must pull back.
And then he says, that was in 1981.
Actually, I leaked that document that was in there.
That's why I got fired.
1968, he says, an article in Learning and Teaching in the NEA Journal...
His top educator folks, behavioral psychologists, behaviorists, right?
He says, quote, "...the most controversial issues of the 21st century will pertain to the ends and means of modifying human behavior and who shall determine them.
The first educational question will not be what knowledge is of the most worth."
But what kinds of human beings do we want to produce?
The possibilities virtually defy our imagination.
Then you have Ashley Montague.
Aging Juvenile, who regales teachers and other school people at conferences, his way back in the 70s, summed it up when he said, every child in America comes to school insane at the age of six because of the American family structure.
And then Dr. Reginald Lurie, president of the Joint Commission Conference of Child Development Act, 1971, and after the break, I really would like to read what he said, but
And let's double those footnotes for people out there.
They really want to research it so they can get it for themselves.
Charlotte Iserby, Deliberate Dumbing Down of America.
Stay with us.
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All right, short segment now, long segment coming up.
Charlotte Isenby is our guest.
Charlotte, out of the gates, in a nutshell,
Tell folks just a little bit about yourself who don't know who you are, what you discovered inside, and then just continue with the quotes by the heads of academia, the heads of the, quote, education science in the last hundred years for social workers and people being trained to be social workers who, you know, go up on YouTube and say, I'm making all this up.
Oh, no, you're not making it up at all.
I mean, I just wish that you were.
There's such an extensive paper trail.
It's disgusting.
I mean, they seem to be pretty bright guys in some ways.
We're good to go.
It's a free download if you want, but buying it is easier for people to read it.
The website is DeliverItDumbingDown.com.
That is the chronological paper trail over the past 200 years of what they've done.
These are documents.
Now, the secondary website is marvelous.
It's called AmericanDeception.com, and those are original primary research scanned in documents and books, very, very rare books and documents.
The most important item on that, if you call it an item, but it is the Reese Committee hearings.
Norman Dodd was the research director for those committee hearings in 1953 on the tax-exempt foundations.
And I bought...
The history of the treason...
Against America by the Tax-Exempt Foundations.
Total proof.
So that website's great.
There are 90,000 pages of marvelous research there, education documents, everything.
But the major reason for that website was when I purchased the congressional testimony during the Reese Cox Committee hearings,
Thank you.
Some of the new items are donor-only, but the brief committee hearings are free, and if you had any idea what I paid for them, I'm sure you would go rushing in there to grab it immediately for fear something would happen with the Internet.
But they're extraordinary, extraordinary documents at AmericanDeception.com.
Now, going back, I'm going to, in brief, just tell you that when I got out of the Foreign Service in 1969,
When did I get out?
I got married.
I was in the Foreign Service and with the American Red Cross for over a period of 15 years or something.
And then I got married in Belgium, came back to the United States, became a school board member, went up against the change agents.
I love it the way everybody's using the word change agent now.
I might point out that I went through change agent training because a master teacher called me and she said, Charlotte, you're right on in your battle on the school board against your change agent superintendent, and I want you to go for training.
And she paid for me to go, and it was at that training where I really got on my white horse, folks.
And I've been on that white horse ever since, and I will never get off.
The horse is dirty as can be, but I will never get off because of what I was taught to do.
Now, listen.
I was taught, and we were all taught,
And this was Ronald Havelock's Change Agents Guide.
How to bring about change in your community and schools.
And we were taught how to identify the resistors in our community.
And also how to identify the important groups in the community, like the Chamber of Commerce, the Rotary Club, the Garden Club, etc.
Nice people who really think they're doing such good work.
And they've been taken by the change agents to get them on board to support sex ed, drug ed,
Critical thinking ed, death ed, whatever, all the things that I've ed hanging off the end of it, which are geared not towards helping your child be a good citizen with good morals and values and be an individual in this world, but are geared towards brainwashing them to be exactly the opposite, to be little, utter chaotic freaks.
And that is the goal of all those programs.
So I was taught how to get those programs in
And how to identify the resistors.
Well, of course, I was a resistor.
That's quite funny.
I was taught how to identify myself.
But then I went on again and I moved on to the U.S.
Department of Ed.
Stay there.
Let's come back.
Let's come back and encapsulate that and then get into more quotes, what their plan is, how they done everybody down, where they're going.
Stay there.
We're going to footnote again those quotes because there's some more of them for the individuals out there who just want to say that we're talking about space aliens.
We're talking to the former head of policy, number two position, Department of Education.
Not only was she skilled and intelligent, she came from a skull-and-bones family.
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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Welcome back.
We're going to go right back to Charlotte Isby in just a moment.
We haven't gotten it up there yet, but in the next hour, I've decided to carry Deliberate Dumbing Down.
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I'd say half of it is just documents.
The actual documents.
Every time she makes a claim, there's not just a footnote.
There is the actual document.
We're going back to her in just a moment.
That'll be available at InfoWars.com, and I hope you get it there.
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Charlotte, going back to you, I mean, I want to go over the key quotes, the key documents, and in a nutshell, when they took over education, how they converted it, how they federalized it, and then some solutions.
You've got the floor, but I want to hear more of those quotes.
Well, okay.
Alex, I also want to point out you're correct.
If people... I do have the book free on my website, and that's fine, but I found that people...
I thought when I did that that I'd lose sales on the book, the real book.
And, in fact, it increased sales because people get tired of looking at the white screen.
And so, Alex, you shouldn't have any problem, you know, with the book.
Well, there's something tactile about it.
And, you know, my stuff falls free as well.
About being able to hold it, see it, share it, carry it with you.
Yes, yes.
So, anyway, you know, we were talking about how...
The effort is not just to get the kids' minds, but it's the parents' as well.
This is an outcomes-based ad quote, because people might say, oh, she's talking about all those old quotes way back there with the U.N.
and Brock Chisholm talking about the psychiatrist, General Chisholm, good friend of ours, we've got to get rid of the conscience.
We're going to retrain the teachers like little psychiatrists.
They can go into the classroom.
And people say, oh, I'm sick and tired of hearing all those 1945 quotes, right?
Well, they're important quotes, folks.
You see, the reason they shut up a bit lately is because they realized that we had their number.
We have all those old quotes.
But a recent quote is good because this was in 1981, I believe.
It comes out of 1971.
No, 1981.
This is from one of the leaders in outcomes-based education, which we've been fighting across the country for ages, based on Skinner, absolute Pavlov, slobbering dog, stimulus response.
You know, I said, Skinner, I could make a pigeon a high achiever.
By reinforcing our proper schedule.
They have to have that in.
It's in now completely across the country because they need it for school to work.
But this is a quote from John Champlin, terribly high up with William Spady and the whole crowd, American Association of School Administrators.
This community, this is a program of theirs for outcomes-based education, direct instruction.
This community effort should be designed both to re-educate and to re-norm parents and the general public.
Think of re-norming the community the same way you conduct similar efforts in the school environment.
Don't challenge the community.
Co-op them.
I love that.
That's a nice quote, because people get bored hearing the ones about the teachers, and that's really a very good quote.
Now, I'm going to read another one, which actually is proof positive.
When you have people saying, oh, you're wrong, death ed, sex ed, critical thinking ed, you name it, whatever, those things, education has a...
Has education hanging off the end of it?
Oh, they're for the good of the child, and the families should be really happy the schools are involved in that.
Well, I got a hold, this is in Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, I happened to be lucky enough to get a hold of the journal called The School Counselor.
Special issue on death, May 1977.
And it came, that's the American Personnel and Guidance Associates.
You know, those nice guidance counselors that your children have access to.
Quote, listen to this.
The last goal is to help students, this is on deaf education, is to help students clarify their values on social and ethical issues.
An underlying but seldom spoken assumption of much of the death education movement is that Americans handle death and dying poorly and that we ought to be doing better at it.
Well, they're probably talking about the fact that we believe in God, right?
And that's where we deal with it very poorly.
As in the case of many other problems, many Americans believe that education can initiate change.
You're not kidding, can it?
Now, here we go.
This is a direct quote and think in terms of what this says.
This actually says that they will be using death ed the same way they use sex ed to change our children's attitudes and values so that children accept any sexual behavior, anything now.
You know that's true.
Now look, they said it.
Change is evident.
Death education will play as important a part in changing attitudes towards death.
In other words, getting rid of religion.
Well, that's so they can, and they even say, euthanize people, get people ready that it's a beautiful thing to have the state kill you.
That's right, and...
And now, since they put this in, suicides exploded.
Now in town, seven people killing themselves.
That's right.
Suicide cults on the web.
Well, the thing is, with death ads, they educate the children towards all the other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, whatever-ism, everything except Christianity.
But anyway, it says, change is evident, and death education will play as important a part in changing attitudes toward death as sex education played...
In changing attitudes toward sex information and wider acceptance of various sexual practices.
Now look, if that doesn't tell you that they have deliberately, that's why I love the word deliberate in the title of my book,
They have deliberately gone after your children's morals and values and your family.
Now, again, it's not just that they're perverts.
That's not the real reason.
If you actually read the eugenicists who started the social working in England, then in Germany, then in the U.S.
as it migrated, they say that by having people be promiscuous, lots of partners, getting people used to abortions and birth control, it's meant to reduce the size of the family, thus to also attack it and break it down, just like the Soviets did.
Well, that's right.
And let me read this.
Remember, I think the break came when I was doing Dr. Reginald Lurie.
This goes back 1971.
President of the Joint Commission, the Comprehensive Child Development Act.
That passed by both Congress and the Senate in 71.
We have that.
That's why we have all these people coming into our homes, early age, taking kids away from us, etc.
Now, he said, quote, he's president of the Joint Commission.
There is serious thinking among some of the future-oriented child development research people that maybe we can't trust the family alone to prepare young children for this new kind of world which is emerging.
The Soviets have long recognized the shortcomings of the family.
That is one of the reasons they felt they needed to have access to the babies.
It is then also more plastic and most available for appropriate experience and corrective.
And that's why they openly say in Europe and here that they want to get people on welfare so they get the children, and now they're offering even middle-class people, oh, let us take care of your baby.
Let us pay the kids to stay late until 8 o'clock at night.
I mean, this is the total takeover.
Well, absolutely, and it is.
I'd like to point out that in the U.S.
Department of Education, I was there for not terribly long, two years, not quite,
And that Department of Education is a Marxist factory.
And thank God for Ron Paul.
He's the only one that constantly is talking about bringing it down.
If that was all he recommended, folks, he should be president for that.
Because the future of our country depends on how our children have been educated as little individuals for upward mobility, having an understanding of the world, not trained like rats
To go along with the New World Order.
Now, Charlotte, I'd like to go back to the start because I've read all these quotes and you're the grand expert on this.
But I remember reading the National Association of Banks.
In right around 1900, I'm going from memory, I remember reading the National Association of Psychologists, Psychiatrists in the 40s, where they said, Americans are the smartest, they read the best, all the inventions are from here, we've got to, they even use words like dumb them down, lower their horizons, constrict them, teach them to be cogs in the planned society, the middle class is going to compete with the social planners, they're upstarts, we've got to dumb them down, use chemicals, whatever we have to,
We're good to go.
In the system, but we have their own words where they admit this was about taking control of society and dumbing down.
Oh, absolutely.
And, you know, for those who really want a good document to show to people who say, oh, well, you know, things aren't so bad, the edge of schools aren't so bad, at American Deception, there's an entry, and it doesn't take much.
It's about eight pages.
And go in there, folks, and just type in the search engine up there, Hignight.
And you are going to see there a test on the Constitution that is about 12 pages long.
This Kenny Hignight, someone at a conference in California gave this to me, gave me the actual test with Kenny Hignight's handwriting on it.
He got 99 on it.
This was in 1953 in Central California Public Schools.
Go there.
It is the most difficult test.
Read it.
He had to name all the cabinet officials.
He had to know all the Bill of Rights.
He had to understand the Constitution, the three branches of government.
He had to know, unbelievable, the protections, everything.
And he got 99.
Go there and look at it, and you know what you can do with that?
You can cut and paste, and you can send that to anybody you want on a computer and prove to them.
This was America's public school system as late as 1953.
So it was a deliberate, you know, from 1945 on, he just escaped it.
1945 on, that was the UN.
Going to the UN, UNESCO, get rid of academics, you know, Brock Chisholm.
The teacher becomes the psychiatrist.
Then we have the agreements with the Soviet Union, Reagan signed.
We're good to go.
I think?
Agenda has been to dumb down your children, to strip them of their values, to make them into the little new Soviet man, because everything in education has been Sovietized by now.
It goes right along with William Foster's book.
He was chairman of the Communist Party USA in the 30s, buried in the Kremlin, and he said, called for a U.S.
Department of Ed.,
Call for getting rid of religion.
Call for putting in the scientific Pavlovian method.
Call for all of these things that are being taught in the schools now.
And it's been done.
It's a done deal.
So all of those, your wonderful listeners out there who are homeschooling,
Or who are in private schools that don't accept a penny of any form of tax money, federal, state, or local.
Those are the people whose children are going to save this country.
And the public schools, I'm sorry to say it because I'm a great supporter, always have been, of public education because it was the best system in the world.
I want to throw a program note in here.
I was on the message board and professors and all these other people were finding all these other horrible quotes saying the family's bad, the family has to be gotten rid of, the family is a sickness, a disease.
And then now it moved off of the prisonplanet.com forum.
I can't find it in the subpages and I can't find it in recent posts.
I know it grew full of quotes, and I want to go back and vet those and follow those back for an article we're doing.
Can whoever has that page repost it in a recent post or post it at the top or something?
Charlotte, I know you had other quotes you wanted to read before we hit that break 30 minutes ago.
Do you want to read any more quotes you didn't have time to get to about the family being bad?
Well, yeah, I can read this.
I think I didn't.
This one is good.
This may hook into what you were talking about.
This is from Arthur.
Arthur Calhoun's A Social History of the American Family in 1919.
There are three volumes, I believe, and in the third volume he says, quote, The new view...
...is that the higher and more obligatory relation is to society rather than to the family.
The family goes back to the age of savagery while the state belongs to the age of civilization.
The modern individual is a world citizen served by the world and home interests can no longer be supreme.
As soon as the new family, consisting of only the parents and the children, stood forth,
Society saw how many were unfit for parenthood and began to realize the need of community care.
And he goes on there, if you want the rest of the quote.
No, no, that's it.
What they did is, it wasn't a 1919 book.
They took that quote, and then in the UT textbook I was looking at, when they were using there, University of Texas at Austin, it then went on to say it's the families of disease.
But you just found it, Charlotte.
That's it.
Erin, she found it.
She found it.
Stand by.
All right.
Stay there, Charlotte.
We'll be right back.
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Don't worry.
This show is documented.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
That's right.
Don't worry.
We're going to expose the New World Order.
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Every educator, every person that has children in a government education camp, indoctrination center,
Now, again, we're four or five generations into this.
The average social worker, the average teacher doesn't even see what's happening around them.
In the founding documents right through the 70s, they were quite honest.
They're still honest in higher-level documents for master educators, special schools they're sent to, even above the master's and Ph.D.
And correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, Charlotte.
So, some social worker listening may not even know this, but it's the attitude, it's the idea, it's the guilty until proven innocent.
It's the whole system of destroying families and making us all cogs in this larger system.
The sodium fluoride in the water to dumb us down, now public.
That's not even scientific.
American admits that.
As you said, the people now know this is going on.
They don't know the full horror or the full details.
But even George Carlin gets up and says the corporations, you know, run the system to dumb everybody down, you know, when he talks about education.
They test to see how much they've dumbed you down.
Then they lower the test bar.
Charlotte, re-intro what year he wrote that, 1919, the name, because Aaron missed that.
You mean Calhoun.
Wait a minute.
I've got it here.
I think.
Let's see.
I hope.
I'll have to look for it and give it to you when I find it, because I threw it away when you said that I found it.
So I lost it, but I will give it to you.
It's Calhoun 1919.
It's okay.
We've got a bunch of books you wrote.
We can find it and go back and listen to it.
I'll get it for you before this is over with.
But there's something very important in regard to...
The mental health testing and all of the... I found that for you.
Third by Arthur Calhoun's A Social History of the American Family, 1919.
Here it is.
And I want to give Dennis Cuddy...
You know, credit for this.
Dennis has this in his marvelous chronology of education, which I stole from him and put on AmericanDeception.com.
I just got sort of his permission now.
We're good friends.
But that is Dennis' wonderful chronology of education.
It can be purchased from Dennis, but it also is at AmericanDeception.com.
And this is on page 14 of Dennis' chronology.
1919, about Arthur Calhoun, Social History of the American Family.
So anyway, let's give credit to Dennis.
And also, I want to, another thing, before I forget, we're talking about the justice system in this country.
We've only got a minute left, Charlotte.
Wrap it up.
All right.
Hawaii Master Plan.
That's page 85 in my book and it calls for, it says right here, 1971, it says, recent discoveries from the field of biochemistry suggest that all these drugs will improve learning such as persistent flow, the application of biochemical research findings,
And that's the New Freedom Initiative?
It is.
And any child that believes in God or doesn't like world government, when he's screened, he'll be flagged.
He's sick.
And again, it's because you can have no God but them.
That's why they attack it.
It's not because they're these enlightened atheists.
Charlotte Iserby, deliberatedumbingdown.com.
We will talk to you in the very near future.
I want to have you back up in the next few weeks.
We're doing a lot on education.
God bless you for all your great work.
Thank you so much, Alex, and best to everybody.
What a great lady.
We'll be back tonight live on the network, 9 to midnight Central, retransmitted out on the network live, 9 to midnight, not live.
You can hear the streams going out right now.
In one minute, we're going to come back, and you can hear the first and second hour, if you missed it, with key economic analysis.
Go to Infowars.com right now.
God bless you all.
We're good to go.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
John Hunt with new JFK revelations and his take on our work up in Dallas this weekend, last weekend, coming up.
Joe in Illinois, yeah, you see Ron Paul, bumper stickers, road signs, billboards, things all over the country, blimps, airplanes, not even our airplanes that Ted's got up, other ones doing stuff, great job.
Winning most of the text polls, all the internet polls, polls showing he's double, he only gets half, then when he does win second place, they just lie and say he didn't.
I mean, certainly the fix is in.
Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.
A convicted cocaine trafficker running the machines in New Hampshire.
You know, cities where he got votes getting none.
That's all admitted.
They just sent people to prison in Ohio.
We always knew that was a fraud in 2004.
But again, this is a process.
We're showing people the fraud.
We don't engage them and try to vote and don't fight back.
We know they're going to win.
So people need to be ready for a fight.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I just also wanted to say, you know, any presidential candidate or anybody running for any office, they say a lot.
Everybody says a lot.
You hear a lot.
It all kind of sounds the same.
It's all about change.
But when it comes back down to it, Ron Paul is always saying exactly what, you know, nobody else is saying.
It's the things that need to be said, and he really sounds like the only person in the world that listens and knows what's going on around him and is telling everybody, hey, this is how we fix it.
And every issue he supports, controlling the borders, being against abortion, they're all above 70% points now.
Thanks for the call.
I mean, it also just so happens that what's constitutional is what is popular.
But the system, the establishment, both parties are against that.
Bill in Ohio, thanks for holding your own here.
Alex, you rock.
You are the beacon of light in a world of darkness and controlled media and edited media.
No, you guys, you guys are.
I love hearing from you.
No, you are.
Go ahead.
You rock, my friend.
I love you.
I wanted to point out a couple things, just really two comments.
Had a friend travel to see family in the Middle East.
Went through Ben Gurion Airport, Israeli airport.
He was interrogated like most males.
He's an American-born citizen just like you and I, Alex.
Pays his taxes, the whole nine.
He's a good guy.
Interrogated over four hours.
Literally a full-body cavity search.
They printed up five years' worth of his phone records.
They questioned him about said phone calls when he was not sure
His phone calls were played back for him.
Yeah, well, I mean, you know Israel.
Israel actually owns, the government owns and controls the company that controls 99%.
There's a few smaller systems that don't.
For caller ID, the NSA is global.
Everything's recorded.
See, they're introducing it to us by going, Al-Qaeda.
We only listen to Al-Qaeda.
No, it's everything.
Go ahead.
I wanted to mention that.
I believe it had something to do with the Amdocs, although I'm not certain of that.
There was something on YouTube.
Some of your listeners can go to it.
I'm not sure if that's... So, I mean, what else were they saying to him as they played back phone calls?
Played back.
So, not only are they doing billing, they are doing recording.
They are archiving the whole nine.
It's scary.
I don't know if you saw it.
You know, I read the Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post daily.
It actually is amazing how much more information you can get out of their media.
But this was on the 9th of January when Bush was over there visiting.
He got a big thank you from the Chief Rabbi there, Metzger, who said, I want to thank you for your support of Israel, and in particular for waging a war against Iraq.
And Bush mentioned to him that those words, quote, warmed his heart.
So I don't know if you've ever touched on the oil pipeline to Haifa, Israel.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on it, though.
Well, that's what it is.
The Israeli plan from 1983 brought into U.S.
policy is to run genocide ops in Iraq.
Broken in three parts, endless war and death and destruction.
That's the policy.
You rock, man.
You rock.
Good to hear from you.
Thank you.
Just separately from what he said, because that's anecdotal, we already know that.
The NSA is the phone company.
They just have to get ready to announce it to you.
Kind of like Austin's put cameras up everywhere ten years ago.
Now they're announcing they're watching you.
They have to get around to it.
It's all part of being slaves.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, in the next eight months to a year, I'm shooting for eight months, I usually meet deadlines, but a lot's going on.
I intend to release what is the definitive JFK film.
We've got some other important interviews we want to do.
We've done, of course, one with St.
John Hunt and his wife, a son of the famous spy master-in-chief, E. Howard Hunt, of Watergate fame, Bay of Pigs, overthrowing
A whole bunch of third world countries, CIA section chief, head of western intelligence, Ethan Hunt on Mission Impossible, that's named after his father.
He consulted on the films.
So, this is a big deal.
But for our safety, because the five minute audio tape's been out there, it's been on Coast to Coast AM, it's been here, it's been on Extra.
We've played that here, we're going to play a few more minutes of that today that you heard six months ago here.
Or five, six months ago.
But there is also hours and hours of videotape.
I'm just going to leave it at that.
And again, in an audio tape, he went the furthest.
And he said, don't release this until after I die.
But he knew he could go to prison for violating his national security oath.
He knew he could go to prison for speaking out about this.
Or he could be convicted if he said he was involved.
So he couched it.
But he didn't couch it on the audio tape.
He slightly couches it here.
We're good to go.
I think?
This is serious, serious business.
That we're talking about.
It's very historical.
But I just want to say, I really hit it off with St.
He's a really classy guy.
His wife, Mona, is really classy.
It was great to see this character with Jim Mars, who knew Jack Ruby, who went to his nightclub.
There's famous pictures of him dancing on the table with the girls, Jim Mars, when he was a college student.
And, of course, his photo was then used by the Congressional Committee in 79, the assassination committee that did find it was a government conspiracy and an assassination.
Did you know the government found that?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
The debunkers, the Gerald Posner, never want to talk about that on television.
So, just amazing individuals.
Jim's consulting on the film.
So is St.
John Hunt.
And Saint, too bad you live in California because, by the way, he has a very popular blues band.
He's a fan of Jimmy Vaughn.
I can't wait to get you here to Austin for the premiere.
Hopefully you and Jimmy can hook up because I'm friends with Jimmy and his wife.
I know Jimmy would hit it off with you because you're both classy guys.
And I just want to say that I wish you lived around here because I know we'd be friends.
Well, Alex, I lived around there too, because I know we'd be even better friends than we already are.
I already consider you a very close and personal friend of mine, and I think we had a great meeting of the minds.
It was great to meet Jim Mars down there, but you are one heck of a...
Of a dude, man.
Let me tell you.
Well, I just enjoyed meeting you.
You're just a really intelligent, funny, classy guy.
And, of course, we are friends.
By friends, I mean, you know, hanging out, going to the movies, friends.
Oh, exactly.
This is not just business.
We have now a personal friendship that I think is going to last, you know, until the day it's all over.
Well, I hope that's a long time from now.
Now, St.
Kind of like the same questions I asked you there at the Knoll and the hotel room and on the building there on the top of the Hyatt overlooking Dallas.
What was it like to go back to the Knoll?
What was it like to come back to that place?
When we picked you up from the airport, when you touched the ground, when you got into Dallas, it was Dealey Plaza.
What was that whole experience like?
Well, Alex, it was truly an amazing experience for me.
It was many-faceted.
First of all, once I got on the ground there at Dealey Plaza, and even from the hotel room, when I looked out over the
I mean, it was just such an awakening feeling to realize that this was exactly where I was.
I'd seen so many pictures of Dealey Plaza before, and seen the movie stills of the Zapruder film, but you just don't really get that concrete of an idea of how really tiny of an area it is.
I mean, and this is the perfect place for an assassination.
When I was looking out over to the plaza from the hotel room, it just struck me like a lightning bolt of how well this operation was planned.
This was no fly-by-night, last-minute, seat-in-your-pants operation.
We're good to go.
That, you know, affected, well, not only myself, but, I mean, the entire nation and at large the entire world.
And to be there talking about this, to go up to the grassy knoll, to be behind the picket fence, to see the railroad tower where Lee Bowers saw the two assassins from the rear as they fired the fatal headshot, I mean, this was just...
Just incredible stuff.
It was just very moving, very emotional, and very eye-opening for me.
Your assessment of Jim Mars.
Jim Mars.
What a character that guy is.
He has got to be the most... I mean, he's got to be the authority on the final word.
He's the most profoundly intelligent, and I respect him greatly for his vast knowledge of the details surrounding all aspects of not only the JFK assassination, but of 9-11 and the Bilderberg conspiracy and
Just many, many, many details in our history.
I thought he was, personally, he was a great guy, kind of a feisty Texan.
He likes to have a beer, and I like to have a beer with him.
And he's just easy to talk to.
He's just authoritative.
He mixes no words.
He talks, you know, he shoots straight from the hip.
I mean, he's just a great, great guy and a smart, intellectually savvy individual.
Very, very nice man.
Yeah, he's a sweetheart.
I really, again, enjoyed meeting your wife.
I'm just really personalizing this because it was personal for me.
The courage that you guys...
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
Let's go ahead and get into JFK now.
And then coming up in the next segment, I'm going to play first some clips from the audio that was already released and then some of the audio from the video that's never before.
This is its maiden voyage here on air today.
But let's talk about something that people don't know or haven't heard before.
I mean, really, because you're... I wouldn't call you a shy guy, but, you know, you don't...
You know, say it all just in one run.
You had your place broken into.
You had somebody try to run you off the road days before and then after some events that happened when the Rolling Stone cover story came out.
I mean, with the tale, talk about your place, what happened.
Well, I had just moved into a house with a friend of mine, and this was April 2007.
That's when the Rolling Stone article broke.
Last confession of E. Howard Hunt.
It was within three days of that article.
That story breaking that somebody had slipped in without breaking anything, actually, just kind of like swept in through the wind and rifled all the paperwork in all the rooms in that house, gone through all of my stuff, gone through all of my roommate's stuff.
And there was no jewelry missing, there was no DVDs missing, no television, no stereo sets were stolen.
Everything was accounted for, but all the paperwork, all the files had been ransacked and pulled out, and all the manila envelopes had been opened up and strewn about.
So, I mean, it was obvious that they weren't there, whoever was there, they weren't looking for jewelry or
You know, any items that you could take to a pawn shop and pawn.
So it didn't seem like it was a normal break in some, you know, drug-crazed, you know, drug addict coming in to steal stuff.
So it seemed kind of really creepy to me.
And then, of course, a few days after that, I was driving home alone.
It was late at night, about 11 p.m.,
I was taking a lonely stretch of highway by the coast called Samoa Boulevard.
It's not a route I usually take, but I did notice that when I left the parking lot of Mona's home,
Where I was visiting with her before we moved in.
I picked up a tail of somebody behind me with a car that was parked on the street, followed me all the way from her place all the way to the little town of Arcata and then from there I take another street, another road that goes to this little stretch of highway that has no lights or anything.
It's very desolate out there.
It's right by Humboldt Bay.
And they tried to run me off the road.
I mean, they damn near succeeded.
It was very frightening.
Just like in the movies, they were accelerating right up on your tail, coming up beside you.
You finally pulled over.
You sent them a tiny piece of sand right on the cliff.
Yeah, right on the very edge.
And they just came up really fast behind me.
I thought they were going to smash right into me, and I accelerated as much as I could in my car, and then they backed off a little bit, they dropped their speed, and then they came back for another charge, and I just felt these guys were going to just bump me right off the road, and that was going to be the end of me, so I swerved off the side at the very last minute, and my car was just on the very precipice of...
Of the edge there.
John Hunt, stay there.
Worldwide exclusive audio.
Straight ahead with the son of St.
E. Howard Hunt, St.
John Hunt.
We'll be right back.
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All right, this is a short segment.
I want to re-air part...
The original tape.
This is an audio tape.
We're going to come back, have St.
John comment on the audio tape.
Then we're going to play the new audio off the new video, Never Before Heard.
Again, here is the introduction.
I heard from Frank that LBJ had designated Cord Meyer Jr.
to undertake a larger organization while keeping it totally secret.
Cord Byer himself was a rather favored member of the Eastern aristocracy.
He was a graduate of Yale University and had joined the Marine Corps during the war and lost an eye in the Pacific fighting.
I think that LBJ settled on Myer
As an opportunist, Perrin, like himself, Perrin, and a man who had very little left to him in life ever since JFK had taken Cord White as one of his mistresses, I would suggest that Cord Meyer welcomed the approach from LBJ, who was, after all,
Only the Vice President at that time, of course, could not number Ford Meyer among JFK's admirers.
Quite the contrary.
As for Dave Phillips, I knew him pretty well at one time.
He worked for me during the Guatemala Project.
He had made himself useful to the agency in Santiago, Chile.
Where he was an American businessman.
In any case, his actions, whatever they were, came to the attention of the Santiago station chief.
And when his resume became known...
To people in the Western Hemisphere Division.
He was brought in to work on the Guatemalan operations.
Spurs and Morales and people of that ilk stayed in apartment houses during preparations for the big event and
Your addresses were very subject to change, so that where a fellow like Wallace admitted one day, you're not necessarily associated with that same address the following day.
In short, it was a very mobile experience.
Let me point out at this point that if I had wanted to fictionalize what went on
In Miami and elsewhere during the run-up for the big event, I would have done so, but I don't want any unreality to tinge this particular story or the information, I should say.
I was a benchwarmer on it, and I had a reputation for honesty.
I think it's essential to refocus
On what this information that I've been providing you, and you alone, by the way, consists of.
What is important in the story is that we've backtracked the chain of command up through Kornmeyer and laying the doings at the doorstep of LBJ.
He, in my opinion, had an almost maniacal urge to become president.
He regarded JFK as he was, in fact, an obstacle to achieving that.
He could have waited for JFK to finish out his term and then undoubtedly a second term.
So that would have put LBJ...
At the head of a long list of people who were waiting for some change in the executive branch.
Okay, when we come back, we're going to play the rest of the new information ever before heard.
Again, we've got about 30 seconds, but St.
John, through the chronology, there's the written notes with the chain of command, there is this audio tape and the video tape.
Give us the chronology of what came first.
Well, the first thing that came about was the audio tape.
My father sent me that audio tape without any warning.
It just appeared in my mailbox, and I was stunned when I put it in my cassette deck.
There was no explanation with it.
That prompted me to fly down to Miami and speak with my father.
Stay there.
We've got a break.
We'll come back in Miami.
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
We're good to go.
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Because there's a war on for your mind.
John Hunt, firstborn son of E. Howard Hunt.
He just mailed his son this tape.
He thought he was dying in 2004.
John flew out there.
He did finally die last year.
And in the space of that time, he did handwritten notes with a command structure of LBJ at the top, right through Cordmire and the rest of them.
And now there's this video, quite a bit of it, his whole life, CIA, OSS, World War II, before that, right through everything, sniping on the Yellow River, all of it.
But you're going to hear a few minutes today, never before heard, and Aaron has selected these clips out.
Aaron, specifically, just so St.
John knows what clips we're about to play, so you can comment on them.
Aaron, specifically, tell folks about some of the clips we've got here.
Primarily, we're looking at E. Howard Hunt discussing LBJ's roles and motivations.
He wanted the power of the presidency, and directly implies he was hooked up with William Harvey, a top CIA agent, who Howard Hunt himself says was several ranks above Howard Hunt's level.
And then about Oswald, he says that he was basically a low-level nobody, so he was easy to burn.
Yeah, that clip's not in here, but that's on the tape.
Oh, I want that clip.
Can you, during the next break, maybe run out and send it up?
Okay, fantastic.
John Hunt, you led him to the point of you're in Miami.
You fly out there after he sends you the tape.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I received the tape from him, and I was stunned and shocked at what he was saying.
Yeah, I think so.
He wrote out in his own hand on some memo paper the chain of command and then a more detailed chronology starting in 1963 about meetings he had with David Morales and Frank Sturgis concerning a larger operation called the Big Event which was headed by Bill Harvey
To assassinate President Kennedy.
And then after that, I flew back to California and then it was in April 2005 that I flew again to Miami to conduct what was to become his last video interview, which I filmed in a hotel on Miami Beach with my father.
And I think you're going to play some clips from that.
Yeah, we're going to play clips.
I'll just abruptly stop it.
You can comment.
Then St.
John and I'll probably have some comments.
And Aaron's got some.
Let's go ahead and start rolling that.
And we know that LBJ had an unlimited ambition.
And we know that he was a corrupt individual.
And that the dollar sign was very important to him.
And his vice president said,
He didn't have the leverage that a president did or would.
And so that was an attractive goal for LBJ.
In other words, he did not want his career to come to an end as vice president.
I think it was very important to him that he take advantage
As to the extent that he could as Vice President.
Because just a few things had to be accomplished.
He had to kill Kennedy.
Or have him killed, I should say.
And be guilt-free himself.
And then he could go on and do what he wanted to do as President of the United States.
It was a very tempting...
And almost a logical move on his part.
It wouldn't have been hard for him to talk to... I keep thinking about Bill Harvey.
Call Harvey and say, look, there are some things I want to have done.
And I think it's... I mean, Harvey didn't want just another
An additional CIA salary.
He wanted to move on.
And LBJ could do that for him.
If he were president.
He couldn't do much for Harvey or anybody as vice president.
It doesn't speak well for our democracy at that particular time.
But I think that it happened just that way.
LBJ who got people, got officers who had the ability, the skill to go ahead and do what he would have done even if it involved the presidency of the United States.
All right.
Now, I think it's clear to explain here.
We've got written notes that basically mesh with the audio.
And then on video, he's obviously now a little more conflicted.
He's a little more conscious that this is going to be actual video of him.
And believe me, it's powerful.
I'm a little concerned even having this here in my office.
We've got copies everywhere now.
We're doing this mainly for our safety.
You do, too.
Right now.
But you can tell that he's a bit conflicted, holding back a little bit here, but still the power of this actually being video.
John Hunt comments.
He's talking about the incredible avarice, the desire here, wanting to be the president.
He was going to be too old to wait.
Give us your take.
Well, I think you put it very well there, and I think my father was very concerned about actually going on videotape with this, but he had agreed to do this in the previous year with me, and by the time I got back to him in Florida, he had undergone
He had withstood a tremendous amount of pressure from his immediate family that lived with him down there.
This was the second family after your mother was blown up and after he got out of prison?
You have to understand also that my father, of course, had testified twice before
You had testified.
And I had testified on my father's behalf during the Watergate investigation, the hearings in Washington, D.C.
That's a good point.
That's a good point to bring up now, just recapping how that night he pulls you out of bed, has you clean the equipment, has you go throw it in the water there near the Potomac in the pond, and about how you saw all these guys, Sturgis and others, and then in Watergate, supposedly, he just met them.
Talk about that.
Well, yeah, when my father testified under oath, if he had known Frank, you know, when he had met Frank Sturgis, you know, the running story was that he had met Frank through Bernard Barker, one of the other Cubans from Miami, and that was what the story was that my father went with, and
And he never admitted that he'd known Frank since before the Kennedy assassination, but on these handwritten memos, and to me personally, he admitted that he had met Frank many, many years before during some of the run-ups for the Bay of Pigs, some of the exile meetings, and also during these run-up meetings for the big event, which was the operational code word for the assassination of President Kennedy.
And in this ongoing cover-up, you believe, and even mainstream media says it's obvious that they blew your mother's plane up coming into Chicago.
Well, I do certainly think that there's enough conspicuous information that at least should mandate another investigation.
I think it's very... It goes beyond coincidence.
When you have one or two things that sort of
Uh, happened at the same time.
You could call it coincidence.
And I'm not a conspiracy theorist of any kind or, uh, you know, a conspiracy nut or anything like that.
I'm just, I'm just, uh, you know, a very sort of simple person.
Uh, just, uh, you know, put my 40 hours of work in a week and, uh,
But what I've learned over the years, when you have a mounting amount of things that take place immediately after something like that plane crash, when you have President Nixon installing Eagle Krogh as the number one man in the National Transportation and Safety Board the day after that plane came down, when you have Dwight Chapin who became a board member of United Airlines within a few weeks of that, when you have
The FBI breaking into the command tower and stealing the audio tapes, which had the conversations between the cockpit crew of that flight and the tower there.
And the FBI showing up right as it blew up already.
They're having the plane specially diverted to a pretty much shut-down airfield.
Now, expanding from there, your mother also had something on her at the time, didn't she?
Yes, she did have something on her.
She had evidence that she and my father were using to pressure the Nixon White House, what they call blackmail, but what my father never agreed that it was blackmail.
In fact, he always claimed that there was an unlawful
Well, we have the Nixon tapes where he's going, how much does Hunt need?
A million dollars.
And he goes, we can get that.
That's right, and shortly thereafter, my mother was sort of the paymaster.
She was going around picking up large sums of cash that had been stashed.
And she had been in intelligence, too, and even previously been married to a French prince.
Yeah, she had.
She had been involved in intelligence.
She was working for April Harriman.
She was tracking Nazi loot and art and gold across Europe.
She worked in Shanghai.
As a matter of fact, she was on the last train out of Shanghai when China fell to the Communists.
And she had a large... Yeah.
She had a large... Oh, she had a large, a couple suitcases of cash, and she had a really nice little pearl-handled .32 that she showed me.
Sorry, go ahead.
Well, Shane, it's clear we're going to have to do another hour in the near future just to tell all these stories.
They're all so incredible.
It's such amazing history.
The Bay of Pigs, the Cuba stuff, the attempted assassinations, all the other materials, the info about the overthrow of other third world countries like Guatemala.
But the big question here I've got for you, and I should have asked you this beforehand so you could think about it, and if you need the break to think about it, that's fine.
We're going to play a few more clips here in a minute.
But did your father off video or off tape or off, you know, ever say anything else separate?
I mean, we know growing up he'd say, yeah, we need to kill all the Kennedys and finish the job, kill them all, and yeah, great, Bobby got it.
I mean, not just that stuff, but did he ever say anything else before he died about, yeah, we killed him, or was it all just on tape?
No, we had a lot of side conversations.
For example, when we left his house where I was staying with him in North Miami and we were on our way to the Holiday Inn there on Miami Beach to tape
The section of video tape where he talks about LBJ and the JFK assassination.
I didn't know how much he was, at that point, how much he was going to admit or how much information he was going to actually be willing to be filmed divulging.
Because he wouldn't even tell Kevin Costner when he'd been at the house.
But go ahead.
No, he wouldn't tell anybody.
And as it says on the audio tape, he gave this and trusted this information to me and to me alone.
And that was quite remarkable in itself, having been the black sheep of the family for so many years.
But being that as it may, we had many...
What did he say?
I don't want to go to prison?
I don't want to hurt my family?
He would say exactly those things.
He said, I don't want to hurt my family.
I ruined my first family.
Your mother died because of all this stuff that I was involved in.
You children have had to bear the burden of shame and guilt surrounding his activities and because of his activities.
His second family was really a new birth for my father, E. Howard Hunt.
It was a new beginning.
And he did not want to tarnish their lives or affect their lives or their name in any way.
But you told me that this is just too historical.
That's the reason you're doing it.
And in the end, why do you think he did it?
In the end, I think he did it because he knew that it was of such a huge historical significance.
And I think he wanted, you know, at the very end, he wanted to get this information out, you know, even if it was just, you know, just part of the story, which I don't think he, I mean, I know he didn't tell me the whole story, but I was brave enough to tell me what he told me.
And then, of course, he states that I was to do with this information what I thought was necessary.
And so that's what I'm doing with this.
I want to bring it to the world.
Well, we thank you for that.
Let's finish up with this first clip.
We're going to come back with another.
Here it is.
And that was what LBJ really wanted.
There was nobody with the leverage that LBJ had.
No competitor at all.
That's right.
He was the vice president and if he wanted to get rid of the president then he had the ability to do so by corrupting different people in CIA.
And he had to do it with the limitations of CIA because there was no other group that honored
Well, let's put this together a little bit.
I mean, you've said now that
David Phillips apparently met with Oswald in Mexico City before the assassination.
You've said that Bill Harvey may very well have recruited a French or Corsican gunman to shoot and you've also said that Cord Meyer had a motive in that his wife was having an affair with John F. Kennedy.
So now you have three CIA officials
Who had, let's say, the means, motive, and opportunity, you know, or some connection to kill Kennedy.
That's true.
So, if that's the case, then, I mean, there had to be one person sort of in charge, so to speak.
I mean, wouldn't that have been... B. Harvey.
B. Harvey?
I see.
And they would, Phillips and the others would take orders from Harvey?
Well, if he was in that chain, yes.
Because Harvey had the seniority.
But I think that LBJ was an opportunist.
And if... It is a big idea.
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I think so.
We don't need no education.
Look, there's going to be a part two to this interview where we flesh out the hour of video we've got and play a few other clips in the weeks to come and have St.
John Hunt back on.
I've got a few other questions for you, and so does Aaron Dykes.
You had a chance to meet up in Dallas.
But St.
John, before you go any further, plug your website, and you've done a videotape presentation about all this that I think historically our listeners need to purchase and need to get.
Plus, all the work and energy and time you put into this is basically broken.
You're not a rich guy yourself.
You work in therapy, helping people who are quadriplegics.
And I hope people will financially support you by getting the DVD interview presentation you did.
It's excellent.
Give people the website and tell them how they can order it.
Well, you can go on my website, which is stjohnhunt.com, and on that website you'll be able to hear the audio confession that my dad sent me in 2004, as well as some other things if you just sort of click around.
But there'll be a...
And folks can just type St.
John Hunt into Google and it's the top link that pops up, but specifically give them the web address.
That's spelled out S-A-I-N-T-J-O-H-N-H-U-N-T.
Can I get you back up next week or the week after that for another hour interview for part two?
There's too much to cover here.
Alex, anytime.
You say when and where and I'll be there.
You're awesome.
Aaron's in here.
We've got only two or three minutes left.
Aaron, any questions or comments, points you want to make?
Well, I noticed there was a statement in the original that we had backtracked the chain of command to the doorstep of LBJ.
Is there anything your father said about the powers behind that throne?
I know Jim Mars references...
All the Council of Foreign Relations members and LBJ's administration.
And that meeting the night before in Dallas.
Yeah, the Murchison meeting.
I don't remember specifically.
I'd have to review some of the extensive videotape I have to see if he's on camera saying what were the powers behind LBJ.
But I think it was just something that he knew and that he knew I knew, and it was something that he wasn't really...
Specifically, at least on the tapes that I gave you guys with, you know, spoke about.
I think he was sort of starting at LBJ, but I think it was expected that he knew people, realized that obviously LBJ was a single person, a vice president, that he needed to be supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Council of Foreign Relations and all these other, you know, very powerful organizations in the world.
Well, we know he fired L.L.
Lemonster when he wanted to stage terror attacks in the U.S., not to even come out on the front line.
We know he was abolishing the CIA, getting the troops out of Vietnam, getting us out of the Federal Reserve.
I mean, he did everything to make the establishment angry.
Yes, indeed.
And the minute we've got left, anything else you'd like to add, St.
Well, it was just a thrill to meet you down in Dallas there, Alex.
I think you're a great guy.
Jim Mars was terrific.
Your whole crew was wonderful to work with.
Aaron, Rob, and all those guys.
Just a great bunch of guys you got there working with you.
And it was just a great pleasure.
My wife and I had a wonderful time.
We did some hard work.
It was snowing the first day we met you guys out there.
It was like 32 degrees and my teeth were chattering there in Dealey Plaza.
I hope it didn't come off that way.
Yeah, it was great.
No, no, it came out wonderful.
You looked great.
It came across great.
You and Jim out there, it was freezing cold for two days, but it looked great.
And I'm going to call you right after the show, St.
Have a great weekend.
Say hi to Mona for me.
Do you want to say something, Aaron?
Yeah, great to meet you also, St.
It was really interesting.
It was great to meet you.
I'll see you soon.
All right.
Thank you, St.
Thank you, Aaron.
John, I'm going to call you in about three minutes.
We're out of time.
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