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Filename: 20070302_Fri_Alex.mp3
Air Date: March 2, 2007
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This is the GCN Radio Network.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
In the Encyclopedia Britannica 1999 edition, if you turn to yellow journalism, it details William Randolph Hearst helping organize and stage propaganda for the Spanish-American War, the enactment of the Federal Reserve, and many other globalist imperial programs.
There's only one other media group in history known for being more associated with the government and propaganda.
That is, in history, still operating.
George Orwell, of course, fashioning the character Winston off of himself in the Ministry of Truth in a fictional nightmare future dystopia, fashioned the Ministry of Truth off of the BBC, where black is white,
Up is down, left is right, and we are joined by Guy Smith, producer, director who made the Primetime Sunday program, 9-11 conspiracies for the BBC.
He'll be with us for the entire hour.
Dylan Avery will be popping in, as well as Paul Joseph Watson from Sheffield, England.
Guy Smith, I appreciate you coming on.
No, a pleasure, Alex.
I don't know about yellow journalism, but I guess we just followed the evidence where it led us.
Oh, I was speaking of Hearst Publishing.
Certainly, you're a journalist.
You know about Hearst Publishing, right?
Certainly do.
And Chertoff's cousin, the Homeland Security Director, telling me it wasn't a hit piece, and then it was.
I was talking about a previous
Guy, you told me over the phone that it wasn't a hit piece, but you also laughed and said you don't believe the stuff we've put out.
Can you honestly say that this isn't an attempt at debunking?
Yeah, Alex, I really appreciate coming on your show, and I admire much of the work you do in talking about subjects that perhaps the mainstream media doesn't want to talk about.
But we didn't set out to do a hit piece as you call it.
What we did is that we set out to investigate the evidence and to see where it led us.
And if it turned out that some of the conspiracy theories were true, I would have gladly said that in the film.
You know, we're not acting on behalf of any government agency or, you know, we're not part of some conspiracy... The BBC isn't government-funded?
Is it funded and controlled by Tim Downing Street?
No, it's not, actually.
The BBC is funded by the public through a license fee system.
It's a complicated system.
Which doesn't really operate, doesn't have any similarity to anything that operates in the States.
But basically, people who have a television in Britain have to pay a tax.
They pay that tax to the government and then the government hands it on to the BBC.
And just two years ago they made the director of the BBC resign and apologizing for putting out pieces claiming that Blair knew about WMDs and other things.
Now all totally admitted the BBC was right there.
Well, I mean, that's a whole different story.
But I mean, I can gladly talk about that if you like.
But I guess the main thing is to talk about the program that we made last night and that you said the hit piece.
And I'm saying it's not a hit piece.
What it's doing is investigating the conspiracy theories.
And we did that in an objective and a balanced way.
And we followed the evidence.
We followed the trail.
And we've followed where the trail led us.
A balanced way.
You had eleven debunkers.
We've timed it out.
You gave them at least three times more time than you gave the three 9-11 truthers.
Well, we talked to a lot of people on all sides of the debate.
It was almost 4-1, the time you gave them.
4-1, is that balanced?
Yeah, but Alex, you know that you carry a lot more weight than any debunkers, and when you come on air, you have a lot more impact than anybody who's an expert or anything like that.
Very condescending and sarcastic and complete.
You had your say in the film and you know many people will watch the program and they can make up their own minds.
Why did you interview me?
Why did you interview me for off and on for a week?
I know it had to be over 20 hours of footage and I was in there three minutes.
Well it wasn't actually a week.
I mean we came to Dallas and we met you on the Saturday.
You came to Dallas, interviewed me there, then you interviewed me in Austin in my studio, then the other studio.
Off and on for a week you were here.
No, it wasn't.
It was over two days, actually.
I mean, I can be absolutely quite certain about that.
We interviewed you in Dallas and then we interviewed you the next day in Austin.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Guy Smith, producer, director for the BBC, put together a
Well done, uh, visual piece.
Well produced.
Regardless, off and on for several days they interviewed me.
I would imagine it had to be twenty-something hours of footage.
So, let me just go back.
Let's be conservative and say it's ten hours of footage.
Why did you only use three minutes of me in there if it's so balanced?
I hate to disagree with you that we interviewed you for 10 hours or for 20 hours or over a week.
We filmed an interview with you, you made some very cogent points and you're in the film.
What's the complaint?
Well, I mean, wait a minute.
I mean, you interviewed me for like three hours at the Grassy Knoll, then you followed us around and we're taping off and on during a five-hour event at night, and the next day you interviewed me, you videotaped the two-hour radio show, then you interviewed me about two hours after.
I talked to you constantly on the phone for weeks before that, but let's not digress.
There's a lot of points to make here.
My point is, are you denying that you had eleven debunkers and three 9-11 truthers in the film, and are you denying that they had a lot more time than we did?
No, I'm not denying that.
We interviewed three main conspiracy theorists, you, Dylan Avery and Jim Fetzer.
Your views represent many other people in America, I accept that, and likewise those of Dylan Avery and Jim Fetzer.
And they had a good say in the program.
We gave them a lot of attention and a lot of opportunity to voice their views in the program.
And the program then went to investigate the claims that you and the other two guys are making.
And that's what we did in the program.
If it turned out that the trail that we followed led us to a different conclusion, we would have said that.
All I can report is what we found out.
And in the end, people must make up their own views as to whether they want to believe us or they don't.
If they don't, I accept that too.
I'm not trying to force this down anybody's throat.
I'm not trying to force anybody to accept what we're saying.
I'm just saying, look, this is what we did.
Why didn't you have, say, Kevin Ryan of Underwriting Laboratories, their own internal report said that
1,800 degree jet fuel couldn't melt steel that doesn't melt and it was molten.
That's on record.
We have the aerial photographs and the firefighters.
It was molten four weeks later.
How does 1,800 degrees melt steel that non-structural raw steel doesn't start melting till 2,500 and 54 degrees structural hardened steel until 3,300 and those are numbers people can just pull up instantly on any engineering website.
Why didn't you guys include that in your film?
Well, the reality is that we had 59 minutes and, frankly, we could have spent all day talking about just the Twin Towers.
We covered a lot of ground in the program, everything from the hijackers arriving in America before the attacks through to how the government tried to, the CIA and the FBI, tried to cover up their mistakes after the attacks.
I think it's
Are you saying that they were demolished?
Now, if you were, then one has to look at why that happened and how that happened.
And we looked into that, and we came to the conclusion that the evidence just doesn't support that conspiracy theory.
Okay, let me stop you right there.
Let me bring on Paul Watson from England, who's been writing articles, you may have even seen some, concerning the piece that you did.
You use a NOVA simulation in the piece that has been completely debunked by David Ray Griffin and others.
They claim there's no central steel columns.
They claim it was a hollow shaft.
Paul Watson, you want to comment on the Nova piece?
Well, yeah.
Firstly, I would like to say that I actually counted 13 debunkers compared to so-called conspiracy theorists, so it was an even greater number.
And I would ask Mr. Smith why, when we've had government officials, scientists, first responders,
Basically, that it's a modern religion of delusionals.
Mr. Smith?
Now, in the Nova piece,
It shows... Paul, you've measured it and timed it.
Give him the exact seconds.
And it comes out to about 55 seconds for the towers to fall.
But in reality, they fell in a little over 10 seconds.
So even the NOVA piece is false, Paul.
Well, that's right.
If you take the conservative estimate and say the towers fell in 14 to 16 seconds, what we've got is Mr. Smith in the documentary near the beginning when he talks about controlled demolition.
He uses a graphic animation from Nova, which is a PBS scientific documentary, which depicts the collapse of the Twin Towers at a rate of 6 floors per second, meaning that the total collapse of each tower would have taken around 66 seconds.
So it's a patently false and misleading graphic to use, and
My question is, you know, will there be a retraction of this graphic which is blatantly false and misleading and only lends to the bias that was already decided on in dismissing questions about controlled demolition?
Mr. Smith?
That graphic wasn't misleading.
I don't know, you're talking about it coming from NOVA.
It was actually made by the BBC, that graphic.
Well, the point is, it was used on the NOVA program as well, I don't know.
But the point is, if you're suggesting that the World Trade Center was demolished by explosives, then I would say, where is the cast iron evidence to back that up?
Let me stop you then.
Craig Bartmer, who was in the news, on record, giving citations, on the pile for five days, their 1-7 collapsed, has reported, and I've got now over 15 firefighters and police coming on in the next week.
We're lining them all up for one show.
Hope you tune in.
It'll be three hours of witnesses.
That said, we were told, get back from 7.
They were going to bring it down so it wouldn't damage other buildings.
They were going to blow it up.
We have CNN with two cops going, get back, get back.
7's going to come down.
Get back.
They're bringing it down.
We clearly have this over and over again.
In fact, right now, go ahead.
Let's first play the molten steel clip from New York TV.
Here are firefighters talking about molten steel like a foundry like lava.
Here it is.
You'd get down below and you'd see molten steel.
Molten steel, running down the channel rails.
Like you're in a foundry.
Like lava.
Like lava.
Like volcano.
Okay, now let's play the next clip, and just in case you've never seen these or heard these, and the videos are up on the website, here's CNN with two cops saying, get back, they're gonna bring it down, seven's coming down, they say it three times, here it is, CNN.
You hear that?
Keep your eye on that building.
It'll be coming down.
Building is about to blow up.
Move it back.
Alright, guys?
We are walking back.
Okay, so we not only have that, and again there's over 15 coming on the show, we've already had a bunch of them on.
I've interviewed Bartmer for video for an upcoming film in New York, he can barely breathe.
Now, he tried to be interviewed by you, and you didn't want to talk to him, and he said that he was there, and they said, get back, they're going to bring the building down.
Now, you just heard clips, I'm asking you, why didn't you want to talk to a police officer?
Well, um, I don't know about that particular police officer, um, but... But you met him!
He was there!
You met him!
He went up in upstate New York to meet with you!
Uh, I guess he must have been one of the people who was at Dylan Avery's house.
I think that's probably what you're referring to.
Yes, yes, a police officer.
Well, look, we could spend all day talking about whether there was molten steel or whether it was something else in the basement of the World Trade Center.
But what you have to do is to look at the bottom line theory.
Now, if you're saying those twin towers were demolished,
I have yet to understand why they were demolished and how they were demolished.
All I can say is that the evidence that we have looked at just doesn't stack up.
I mean, is it really plausible that people would have flown two planes into these tin towers and laced them with demolition charges just in case?
We're not saying that.
No, they were pre-placed.
What about seven?
No plane hit seven.
The CIA, the FBI, Defense Intelligence, it was a giant intelligence building.
It had the command center
But is it really plausible, do you think, that
World Trade Center 7 would have been demolished and five years later nobody who was involved in planting those demolition charges wouldn't have spoken to their wife or girlfriend or come forward and admitted that they were part of that.
Hold on, let me finish.
How did they have Tuskegee for 40 plus years killing black men with syphilis secret, the atomic soldiers, the ringworm children in Israel where they radiated 110,000, the Manhattan Project kept secret with over 100,000 people involved.
Come on!
The people who were involved in that and black ops know they'd be killed the minute they went public.
Well, I mean, yeah, you talk about the Manhattan Project, and that's a very interesting example, but it's something that's quite different, because here, remember, 3,000 American citizens died, or American and citizens from other countries as well, including Britain.
So, you know, it's like, you seem to think that we're trying to cover something up.
You know, we're not covering anything up.
All we're doing is looking at the evidence in an objective, dispassionate way, and trying to test whether it stands up to... Guy Smith!
No modern steel building, and you can show some two-story thing in England, or some two-story thing that's tar-roofed in Chicago, no modern steel building has ever fallen.
Look at the Madrid, 100-foot white-out flames, almost two days burning, no major steel members collapsed.
It's scientific,
Building 7 wasn't hit by a plane, had small fires, and symmetrically collapsed.
You should give us evidence.
I just gave you the name of a police officer.
I just played CNN, where they're saying, get back, they're gonna bring the building down, it's gonna blow up.
Now, what more?
I mean, I could go on for hours with these clips, and you will not address it!
No, it's not that I'm not addressing it.
I'm just saying that I don't believe that that evidence proves that there was a conspiracy to demolish World Trade Center 7.
And it's something, you know, I accept that we're not going to agree on this, and that's fair enough.
And I'm very happy to come on the program and talk about my view and say, look, this is what we found out.
If we had found evidence to show that it was demolished by explosives, you know, we would have put that in our film.
We're not trying to cover anything up here.
All I can say is that I don't believe the evidence that you're putting forward.
Alright, stay there.
I'd like to hear how you don't believe it and walk through things with Dylan Avery and Paul Joseph Watson on the other side.
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Welcome back, Guy Smith.
I appreciate him joining us, spending time with us today.
BBC producer, director.
Guy, I want to let Paul ask you questions.
Dylan Avery asked a question first.
We do appreciate your time.
And in the next segment, it's a long 15-minute segment.
This is just a quick five-minute one.
We'll let you run for a few minutes and I'll shut up and hear what you have to say.
But I'd like you to answer this question, because we've answered yours.
I kept begging you, please let me cover Operation Northwoods, the official U.S.
government plan to carry out 9-11 style attacks to blame it on a foreign enemy.
I said Gulf of Tonkin was staged, now declassified, Operation Ajax in Iran.
That's so important that there is a past M.O.
You know, the people who try to debunk us always say, why would they do it?
What would they gain?
Trillions in oil, billions in opium, control, military contracts, domestic police state, just like Hitler burned his own Reichstag.
You told me, no, Northwoods isn't going in here, it doesn't fit into it, it doesn't matter.
Now tell me why, if you made a film about the 9-11 Truth Movement, why you wouldn't cover the central issues of the history of government-sponsored terror and the history of plans to carry out terror against the American people.
Will you please answer that question?
Yes, indeed, Alex.
Operation Northwood is fascinating, and from a historical point of view, it's a very interesting story.
But I have yet to see any evidence that links Operation Northwood to what happened on 9-11.
There's no doubt that the American government and other governments, no doubt the British government as well, has been involved in all sorts of operations in the past, false flag operations as you call it.
But I have no doubt.
I mean, as you mentioned, the Gulf of Tonkin is a very interesting example.
But I have no evidence and I have yet to see any convincing theories that show that what happened with the proposal of Operation Northwoods was put into practice on 9-11.
Well, this is why it's important, Guy.
And you make a valid point.
This is why it's important.
Let's say a six-foot-two gray-haired man with a red birthmark on his left cheek is videotaped robbing a bank and pistol-whipping the clerk.
And then the police run through a database of mug books and they notice that a bank robber, who fits that description, got out of prison six months ago and lives in the area.
And they go by his house and they pull him over when he leaves and he's got the cash in the trunk.
If you've got people that have done this before and plan to do this, my goodness, I think that's pretty darn important.
What do you think?
Well, I think that Operation Northwood was a very interesting subject.
You know, it's something that was talked about more than 40 years ago.
Just because there was this plan more than 40 years ago, which, you know, I don't deny, you're absolutely right, it existed.
Although, of course, it wasn't actually adopted by the President.
Well, it was green-lighted and Kennedy said no and then got his head blown off.
And let me guess, you don't think the government was involved in killing Kennedy, right?
Well, that's a whole other story.
I don't know, to be honest, because I haven't investigated the Kennedy assassination.
Well, the debunkers are losing because 92% of Americans in major polls know the truth now, Guy.
Yeah, well, I don't know about JFK, to be honest.
But what I do know is that I haven't seen any evidence that links Operation Northwood to what happened at 9-11.
There's no doubt, as I said before, that there are lots of operations that have happened in the past that have been carried out by the American government.
I don't
And in 64, it was done with Tonkin, and in 67 it was done with the Liberty, and similar things, Operation Gladio in Europe, but let's just go back.
That doesn't prove that the present occupants of the White House, and I'm not defending them in any way, I'm just saying I haven't seen the evidence.
Why were British SAS members last year caught dressed up like Arabs driving around shooting people with plastic explosives?
Well, let's just keep on Operation Northwest for a moment.
What I'm saying is that just because there was this plan 40 years ago, it doesn't prove that the current occupants of the White House dusted it off and put it into practice in 2001.
Even though PNAC said we need a helpful Pearl Harbor event and Brzezinski said we needed a Pearl Harbor event.
By the way, Brzezinski said two weeks ago in congressional testimony that there may be a false flag attack blamed on Iran in this country.
Well, I think the PNAC report didn't say we should have a Pearl Harbor event.
It said it would help, minus that catalyzing event.
And then Brzezinski said it would help.
I don't think it says actually it would help.
I think what it says is that it wouldn't happen unless there was a Pearl Harbor project.
Gene, we want to invade these countries.
It won't happen unless this happens.
We need to use this disaster for a new world order.
Well, I mean, I hear what you're saying.
I guess people who disagree with what you're saying would say
If it really was then a plot, why would the PNAC report writers publish their report in advance and put it all over the internet?
Because they're arrogant.
Stay there.
I apologize to Paul and Dylan.
We will go to you guys.
You can have the floor and questions for Guy Smith on the other side.
We'll be right back.
Thank you for joining us, guys.
Stay with us.
We're on the march.
The empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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We fired our guns and the British kept a coming.
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to run it on down to Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.
We looked down the river and we seen the British come And there must have been a hundred of them beatin' on the drums They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring We stood beside our cotton bales and didn't say a thing We fired our guns and the British kept a-comin' There wasn't as many as there was a while ago We fired once more and they began to runnin' On down to Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico
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We fired our guns and the British kept a coming.
There wasn't as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to run it.
From down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.
Welcome back!
Our guest is Guy Smith, BBC producer, director.
We appreciate him coming on and letting us go over the piece that he put out.
And now I'd like to give Dylan Avery a chance to ask a few questions and then of course Guy can ask questions of him or make statements if he'd like and then Paul Watson to come back in.
Dylan Avery, producer of Loose Change 1 and 2.
That, by the way, we carry at Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, where you can watch for free at Google Video, as well as my film, Terror Storm.
Let's now go to Guy Smith.
Dylan, do you have any questions or comments for him?
Yeah, my first one is, how can I drop out of something I never attended?
Well, your narrator referred to me as a self-professed dropout, indicating that I actually went to college and stopped attending.
When in reality, I applied for Purchase College twice and because the film program there is entirely selective, I was not selected.
So in all of your research, I found it interesting that you couldn't even get the facts about me right.
And of course, that's been one of the rumors is that you're this evil dropout.
I mean, you know, so is Bill Gates and Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney for that matter.
But the point is, is that you'd mentioned earlier you thought that would be in the piece.
Yeah, guy, you talk about he's a self-professed dropout, but you don't have video of Dylan saying he was a dropout because he never went to college.
Yeah, I know Dylan didn't go to college.
I guess the way we use the term dropout in English, I don't know about American, is somebody who doesn't go the conventional route.
It doesn't mean literally that you dropped out of college, because I know that you... Let me bring Paul Watson up.
He's English, okay?
Let's bring Paul Watson from Sheffield on.
Paul, does dropout mean you never went to college?
No, dropout implies explicitly that you went to university and were not able to complete the course, ergo you dropped out.
That's what it means in America, that's what it means in England.
Well, it can also mean that you drop out of a system or you drop out of society.
You know, it can mean
I am a college dropout even though I had a 3.8 grade average because I didn't need it.
Now Steve Watson that works in our research department has a master's degree in political science and foreign affairs so he thinks it's an inside job too but he has a master's degree is it okay now?
No, I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from believing it's an inside job.
If you want to believe it's an inside job, that's fine.
That's up to you.
And I fully accept that you have a right to think that.
All I can say is that we investigated the story.
We looked into it.
We didn't find the evidence that supports that theory.
And that's all.
There's nothing more to it than that.
Well, you know what?
Maybe Paul, in Sheffield, it means different.
So maybe somebody from London.
Born and bred, London.
Call in.
Let us know.
Me, never went to college.
Just drop out.
Because in my book, that's not what it means.
And Paul says you're incorrect.
Come on, guy.
We know it's a snipet.
Dylan Avery.
You know, like he's some gutter snipe miscreant out there rubbing his oily hands together and attacking the beautiful Crown's operation.
Well, I would say on the contrary.
We interviewed Dylan for the film and we showed how his film has had enormous impact and it's been viewed tens of millions of times all around the world.
And we were trying to make a serious point.
We were showing how now conspiracy theories can proliferate through the internet in a way that they couldn't have done in the past.
Do you think there should be some type of regulation to stop this type of hateful spread?
No, no, not at all.
I think it's a very healthy thing for society.
And I think it's great that you're talking about it, and that's why I'm very happy to come on your show.
Because I think it's good that we should talk about all these things.
I think that's really important, and that's why we made the program.
Okay, fair enough.
Dylan, any other questions?
Dylan, any other questions?
Man, Alex, I got tons of questions.
My first one is, you know, Guy, your narrator makes a lot of jabs about how we're disrespecting the family members and how we're going to continue to ask questions no matter how much it displeases the victims.
Have you ever heard of the Jersey Girls?
Maybe the Family Steering Committee?
Maybe Bill Doyle?
Maybe Bob McElveen?
The list of names... The head of the biggest victims family group who lost his son in the attacks said that he believes it's an inside job.
We have the transcript and the audio on PrisonPlanet.com and he said this last year and he said that more than half of his members believe it's an inside job.
So what do you say to that guy?
Well, what I say is that I accept that they have the right to that view.
All I can say is that we didn't come to that conclusion.
Yes, there'll be many people who are families of victims who support the conspiracy theories, claiming that it was an inside job.
The official story is a conspiracy theory, Guy!
You claimed two passports, fell out of the sky at ground zero, unburned, and then the FBI had to retract that?
They planted those passports!
Well, I haven't seen any evidence to prove that those passports were confiscated.
I've seen lots of theories on the internet.
No, the FBI has now said that they didn't find the passports.
You didn't know that?
Well, I think the passports, as I understand it, were found by passers-by and handed in to the FBI.
Oh my gosh, just like all the confession letters.
Hey, I tried to get you to talk about how the Dean of the Defense Language School said three of the hijackers trained in a secret program in 2000 in Monterey, California.
I tried to get you to cover Newsweek, where hijackers were reportedly trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station.
I tried to get you to interview Mr. Springman, the former head of the U.S.
Embassy, who was told, let them into the U.S., they're really anti-terror fighters, and that their terror designation's a cover.
Guy, why didn't that make it in the film?
Well, there are over 50 different conspiracy theories around 9-11.
That's admitted, sir!
They started court-martialing the head of the Defense Language School until he said he would shut up about it.
I talked to him!
What's the bottom line that you're trying to say, Alex?
Are you saying that we're part of this conspiracy?
Well, I'm saying that just like people in Russia or Germany or China couldn't believe the government had gone bad, and then later they had to admit it,
I think that you have a preconceived notion, a preconceived view, and I'm saying you disregarded most of the key evidence, like 44,000 US troops and 18,000 British troops massed in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan in the four months before 9-11 and Newsweek and Associated Press reporting that Bush, the day before the attacks, had the launch orders to attack Afghanistan on his desk.
I mean, it's very difficult to answer them, some of these points, because what you're doing is you're quoting things that you claim that you've heard, and there's some things that are on the internet and... No, they're mainstream!
Okay, let me stop you right there.
What about the two FBI agents that went to prison for insider trading before 9-11?
Well, I don't know the details of that particular story, but I do know that there are a lot of stories that are circulating on the internet that are not based on fact.
They're based on supposition.
You're not basing that on fact.
Let me just go back here.
You're not giving facts.
Do you know where the story of the Israelis not being in the building came from?
It came from Haratz and the Jerusalem Post, because Odigo instant messaging head said, yes, we got a call that something was going to happen, get our people out of the building, and most 9-11 researchers say that Israel clearly wasn't running the attacks, may have been in some small support role, because MI6, Mossad, Shin Bet, CIA are all joined at the hip,
That's a real report that indeed there were warnings.
The Arabs weren't in the buildings either because they had warnings.
And there were locals doing insider trading.
Everybody seemed to know about it.
The buildings were at half capacity that day.
Well, all I can say, Alex, is that that's a view.
I don't share that view from the research that we've done.
A view?
Are you denying that Odigo's head was in the newspapers in Israel saying they got a warning?
Clearly showing they weren't involved because they were public, going, you know, we got warnings.
I think what you've done here, Alex, is you've raised a very interesting and important point, and that is that much of what is on the internet about 9-11 is based on news reports.
Now, those news reports are not necessarily always accurate.
What happens, as we've seen with the conspiracy theory alleging that 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work that day, is that the story gets into the media, and then it gets twisted and distorted, like what we call in England, Chinese whispers.
And it just continues and proliferates and becomes more and more complicated.
And what we tried to do in our research was to go back to primary sources, to eyewitnesses, and we presented that information.
Now, I fully accept that many people who are listening to your program won't accept that.
All I'm asking people to do, I guess, is to watch our program with an open mind,
And come to their own conclusions.
Some people may agree with us and some people may disagree.
Let me get a comment from Paul Watson.
Let people come to their own conclusions.
How is that possible when the program is laden with so much bias?
We keep hearing this word, objective.
My question is, how can Mr. Smith justify using the strong implication on numerous occasions throughout the documentary that questioning the official story of 9-11 is insulting and hurtful to the victims?
How can he justify such a blatant and cynical attempt to emotionally sway the viewer when we've had Bill Doyle on the program, who is the largest representative, the largest group of 9-11 families, and it was a government cover-up in itself in the very hours after 9-11,
The result of which, now we have a situation where 20% of the first responders are dying from that government cover-up.
And by the way, major medical institutions admit their lungs are full of asbestos and concrete, and we have the internal EPA documents where they were ordered to shut it down and cover it up.
That's been in all the major US newspapers, and we were called conspiracy theorists on that.
The truth is, every time the government does something wrong, they just say we're conspiracy theorists.
Mr. Smith?
Yeah, let me go back to the point that Paul was making.
Yes, there are some relatives who are very much in favor of what you're doing and suggesting that this is an inside job.
The majority!
But there are also many relatives of victims of 9-11 who find what you're doing deeply abhorrent.
But you claimed it was all of them!
You implied it was all of them!
With the bias.
Well, I didn't imply it was all of them.
We said that... We have talked to many relatives... You did imply he's a dropout.
You did imply it was all of them.
You had some psychological test on there where basically you're a bunch of shoddy and nuts and it's a religion.
And you had some fiction writer get up there from the Lone Gunman and the X-Files for the show, the producer, and basically say that it's a religion that we have.
No, sir.
Steel doesn't melt until over 2700 degrees.
And there were people in the wounds of those buildings, waving, begging for help, and then giant columns severed right next to them, and then there was molten steel.
That's a fact.
Well, I mean, again, I come back to the fundamental point.
You're saying that it was an inside job carried out by the American government to start a war for oil in the Middle East and in Asia.
I think so.
Hey, I've played eyewitnesses saying, get back, they're going to blow up the building, and I've got a bunch of other clips I could play.
I give the actual witnesses, I give names, we sent you police officers, we sent you people, and you didn't interview them, and you make these large, broad-brush statements about how you've disproven what we've said, and it isn't true.
Does Mr. Smith admit that there was a bias in editing before the editing of his program, and that he had already come to the conclusion
Yeah, he told me that at P.F.
Chang's restaurant that he didn't agree with me about this stuff.
He doesn't agree about Dr. Kelly.
You're held to a higher standard as a BBC journalist to produce a balanced programme and you've already come to a bias before you've even finished the filming.
Do you admit that?
We went into this project with an open mind and let's face it, if supposing during our research we had found that some of these conspiracy theories were true,
We would have certainly put that into the film, because actually, it would have made a much more dramatic and sensational film.
We'd be all over the front page of the newspapers this morning.
Yeah, and then Blair wouldn't take a bunch of your funding again and make your director resign.
Nobody's trying to censor us.
Oh, come on, everybody knows they've been censoring the BBC.
In your country, they arrested Robin Page for saying that rural communities deserve rights.
I can absolutely give you an assurance that nobody is trying to censor what we were saying in this program.
And if we had found through our objective research some evidence to back up the theory that World Trade Center 7 was demolished or United 93 didn't crash at Shanksville, then we would have put that into the program.
Well, Mr. Smith, your conclusion is not based on the evidence.
They were based on portraying Dylan Avery and Alex Jones as a kind of religious cult.
You called Alex an evangelical preacher, basically.
And then you cut to the X-Files guy saying we're a religion.
And you've got a picture of Jesus, and you've got a picture of your portrayal?
9-11 is a myth.
The official story is a fraud, Mr. Smith.
It's ridiculous.
NIST has given five different reasons Building 7 fell, and now they're saying it could have been because of explosions.
Can I ask you a question, Alex?
I hear what you're saying, and there are many people who will agree with you, but some of the people who oppose what you're saying and who disagree with what you're saying may ask this question, and that is, why is it that nobody in the five years since 9-11 who is involved in that conspiracy has come forward to admit their part in it?
Because it would only take a few hundred people to run the op.
Many people that were involved, I believe they were involved in a simulation.
That's how they bootleg it.
And they've done this many, many times.
Let me give you an example.
Let me answer your question.
Let me answer your question.
5,000 plus U.S.
troops died from 1959 to 1964 when the Vietnam War officially kicked off.
And they didn't announce until 1965
A year after the war was really on, that thousands had died in covert operations previously.
Thousands of U.S.
troops have died in Colombia in the last 10 years, and that's only barely come out.
They covered up, until they wanted to, 5,000 dead U.S.
troops, just like the Russians covered up their true losses in Afghanistan.
So don't tell me for a minute they can't keep black ops secret.
I am absolutely convinced that if there was a Black Ops, as you say, on 9-11, it first of all would have involved not just hundreds but thousands of people.
And I'm quite sure that that Black Ops would have leaked by now.
That people, you know, tell their wives, they tell their girlfriends, they tell their priests they feel guilty about what they've done.
This was a black ops operation, if what you say is true, that was against the American people.
I'm absolutely certain that that story would have leaked out by now.
People would have talked.
It has been leaking.
It has been leaking with firefighters and police talking about how they were told to get back that they were going to blow up Building 7.
And more and more is going to leak.
And people like Sybil Edmonds who want to talk have been gagged.
And FBI agent Robert Wright has been told he'll be arrested if he tells people what he knows.
All he said is the Bush's vacation would have been live.
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Guy Smith, I only have one more question for you and then Paul's got a question and Dylan does.
We appreciate you spending an hour with us and we want you to know that
We see what the piece did.
Tugging on the heart strings.
Oh, look how we're putting all this out.
It's not going to work.
We're going to totally dissect it 110%.
But you didn't get into Pakistan ISI.
You didn't get into $100,000 wired to Muhammad Atta.
You didn't cover any of that.
And people are going to look at that.
So are you a little concerned now over the huge furor this has created?
Or do you like it?
No, not at all.
I think it's great that people are discussing this subject, and it's a really good thing that people are coming to their own conclusions.
And I absolutely accept that many people will believe that there are conspiracy theories that are true, and that's good, that's fine.
You keep using that little pacifier, your blanket, that it's a conspiracy theory, conspiracy theory.
No, corruption and evil in the global empire.
Do you believe there's a one world government being formed?
I mean, do you even know that's real?
Well, I don't know whether there's a one-world government being formed or not.
The brief of our program was to look at what happened at 9-11.
Yeah, but I mean, I had dinner with you.
You don't think Dr. Kelly was killed even when he said he was.
You don't think Diana was killed by the government even when she said it.
I mean, she said, Charles says he's gonna kill me in a fake auto accident, and you just poo-pooed that.
I mean, that'd be like if I said, Billy Bob says he's gonna kill me with a battle axe.
Well, in a sense, Mr. Smith,
Tags us with the label conspiracy theories when he supports the official conspiracy theory and in doing so he uses a sole clip of a firefighter on 9-11 discussing damage to building 7 sprinkler system while omitting literally dozens and dozens of reports
Both footage and from the official firefighter tapes who reported bombs at all levels of the Twin Towers and Building 7.
And that is not part of his documentary, which suggests clear bias because he's using individual clips.
Yeah, he keeps saying show evidence, we show it, and then he ignores it.
The evidence that we presented in the program is the evidence that we believe to be credible.
There are many stories that World Trade Center 7 was demolished by explosives.
I have yet to see any credible evidence that stands that theory up.
Just as I have yet to see any... So the firefighters support bombs is not credible then?
And you didn't even mention it.
You didn't even mention it.
You didn't even have to conclude that it was right.
You could have just mentioned it.
But it's not a balanced piece, Guy.
It's a biased piece.
And everyone can see that.
Well, it's interesting because as well as hearing from the likes of you, I've also had many emails and calls from people who are saying that we're giving too much airtime to the conspiracy theories.
So I guess
You know, it's like one can't please everyone all the time.
No, no, we understand, and I appreciate you at least coming on this show.
Real fast, Dylan, every final question.
Yeah, you know, throughout the documentary and throughout this interview, Guy talks a lot about following the evidence and how he feels that he covered the 9-11 truth movement, when in reality, as you mentioned, Alex, there was a glaring omission from this BBC documentary that any objective documentary would have covered.
Although he lauded the fact that two of the hijackers live with a tested FBI informant, he refused to ask Senator Bob Graham why.
On the morning of 9-11, he was meeting with George Tenet of the CIA and the head of the Pakistani ISI, who had wired Mohammed Anna, the lead hijacker, $100,000 right before the attacks.
Yeah, the role of the Pakistani ISI is a fascinating story, and that's actually something that we could well be returning to in another program.
We might be making a whole program about that connection between Pakistan and the hijackers.
Getting another bucket of white paint out for that, huh?
I'd say watch this space, because that is a very interesting story.
Guy Smith, I appreciate you spending time with us, and I hope to get you back up in the future in the next few months as this develops.
Can we have you back on?
Yeah, I'll be happy to come back on.
And I think if I could just say one final thing very quickly, and that is the good thing that it's great to talk about these subjects, it's great to air different points of view.
It is.
I appreciate you coming on.
It's good to get us thinking.
I want to thank Paul Watson, Dylan Avery.
We'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight.
Back tomorrow, 11 to 2.
PrisonPlanet.com and InfoWars.com.
Google TerrorStorm.
If you would like a copy of this show, come to GCNlive.com and reserve it today, or call toll-free 877-376-45.
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Alex Jones on the GCM radio network.
Big Brother, Mainstream Media, Government Cover-Ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
We first interviewed him almost three years ago, and he's been on the case for a lot longer than that.
Yesterday, at the end of the broadcast, my radio producer walked in with the Salt Lake City Tribune headline, Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
Here is the Desert News headline, Nichols says bomb was FBI op.
We've known this from a massive mountain of confirmed evidence, since just months after the horrible attack that killed 163 people back in 1995.
But now, Jesse Trinidou, on the trail of who murdered his brother in federal prison, Kenneth Trinidou, and we have the horrible autopsy photos up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, a successful attorney and lawyer counselor in his own right, and I just got in touch with him this morning after I learned of this last night.
I went on coast-to-coast AM and covered it.
And he joins us now for the next 30 minutes, and I hopefully will be able to line him up for an hour early next week so we can get into more detail.
He's given us some of the documents, the case.
Those are going up on InfoWars.com right now.
This is bombshell material.
Literally, maybe once a year will my heart start beating faster with the story.
That's happening right now.
So joining us is Jesse Trinidou.
Thank you so much for joining us, sir.
Thank you for having me.
You, if I'm not mistaken, were the first one to broadcast this story back in 2004.
Well, now it's really broken wide open thanks to your work.
We've got three minutes before break and we'll come back and detail it all, but just out of the gate, tell us in a nutshell about yourself, about your brother, how you got involved in this case, and now the prison interview you did with Larry Nichols.
It's unbelievable.
Well, basically my brother was killed a few months after the bombing.
He had
Been convicted of a federal crime back in the late 70s.
Had done his time.
He was paroled in 1988.
He had a dispute with his probation officer about drinking beer.
We challenged that and lost.
A couple months after the bombing, my brother is driving across the border.
He lived in San Diego.
He'd been over visiting friends in Mexico.
He's arrested, supposedly, for parole violation.
At the time, we didn't understand that it didn't make sense.
We assumed that was what it was for.
In hindsight, it's clear that wasn't the case because the judge who sentenced him was in San Diego.
The crime was committed in San Diego.
His probation officer was in San Diego.
Any parole hearing would have to be in San Diego.
So he was sent to Oklahoma City for some reason and was dead two days later.
And we never had a
I don't know.
Uh, we get him home, but we never had a motive, and that was difficult to say to people why the FBI especially would have killed him and tortured him.
Now, we're going to get to that later, but in the process of your investigation, you've now got the documents, the affidavit has been sealed, so you can't talk about certain names, but before it got sealed by the feds in a desperate attempt to block this evidence from coming out, we do have the names, we do have the information, because you were able to tell different news reporters about this, in particular, the Desert News, Desiree News, before that happened, so we're going to go over this
After the break, but I want to get into how you got in contact with Larry Nichols, why he's now gone public, and by the way, his story fits exactly with what the FBI, police, investigators, and many others have brought forward in the, what, 11-plus years since the OKC bombing in 1995.
Our guest is Jesse Trinidou.
We'll be back after this quick break to detail this.
This story is ultra-massive and incredibly important.
It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
My new film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones, on the GCN Radio Network.
It is the 22nd day of February, Thursday, 2007.
One of the most important broadcasts I've ever done.
It was almost three years ago that I interviewed
Jesse Trinidou, his brother Kenneth Trinidou, was murdered.
That's how this lawyer got on the case.
And my God, does it fit him with all the other evidence we have.
Unfortunately, it shows that the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow building was an inside job.
Here's the headline of the Desert News.
And before the filing was sealed, the reporters were able to see it.
Now, our guest is unable to specifically talk about the filing.
and uh... the most shocking allegation the nineteen page signed declaration by nichols assertion but the whole bombing plot was an fbi operation mcveigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instructions from
Former FBI official Larry Potts, who helped run the Ruby Ridge debacle, very senior, personal friends, very high level with the then FBI director.
McVeigh also said he was part of a secret military assassins team who've been recruited out of the military.
That's exactly the MO we have from state police, local police, detectives, and FBI.
This is absolutely off the charts, incredible, and I guess who got in and got this affidavit?
It is the man we're speaking to right now, Jesse Trinidou, got in to see Larry Nichols, and that is a saga in and of itself.
Let's walk through it, please, sir.
Basically, I didn't start out to solve the Oklahoma City bombing.
I started out to find out who killed my brother and why.
It all started in the
Probably December of 95 or January of 96 and I got an anonymous call.
The caller said that my brother had been killed by the FBI, that it was a case of mistaken identity, that it was an interrogation and got out of hand, that my brother fit the profile, the caller said, of a group who were robbing banks.
And to fund the tax, get the money to fund the tax on the federal government.
So somebody had a conscience and called you?
Called me.
And of course, I dismissed it.
I thought it was far-fetched, unbelievable.
And then about six months later, I read a story in the Los Angeles Times about a man named Richard Lee Guthrie, who was found hanging in his cell while in federal custody.
He was supposed to give a tell-all interview the next day before he died about the Oklahoma City bombing.
He was a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang.
And the story said he had robbed banks to attack the federal, get money to attack the federal government.
And they didn't have a photograph of Guthrie, though, just the story.
And then shortly before he was executed, I received a message from Timothy McVeigh, who told me that when he saw my brother's photograph and heard what happened to him, he knew that the FBI killed my brother because they mistook him for Richard Lee Guthrie.
And Guthrie, I believe, was John Doe, too.
I don't
So they clearly killed your brother and Guthrie in prison with the same classic hanging?
Please continue.
Well, as I said, it was difficult to convince people my brother had been murdered, because no one likes to think the government of the United States does those kind of things.
But we have the autopsy photos.
Please describe those.
Well, his head was smashed to the skull in three places.
His throat was slashed.
A stun gun burns all over his body.
Even the soles of his feet are bruised from being beaten.
He's beaten head to toe, front to back, tortured extensively, and then he was
We now know it was Strangle with a pair of plastic handcuffs.
After they beat him to a pulp.
And obviously he couldn't tell them anything because he didn't know anything.
But that started me on the quest to... As I said, I didn't start off to solve the bombing.
I started off to find the men who killed my brother.
But every trail has taken me back to the bombing.
And that's when I filed that lawsuit here in federal court in Utah.
Asking the judge to order the FBI to produce all documents related to a failed sting operation they were running at a white supremacist paramilitary training camp in eastern Oklahoma called Elohim City and that led to the bombing.
It got out of hand.
Let's walk through how you were able to get in touch with Nichols, how he tried to contact John Ashcroft, how the media was then blocked from ever being able to reach him, how you were able to get in, and what Larry Nichols told you.
Well, Terry Nichols reached out to me apparently before he contacted me several years ago.
He had written to Attorney General Ashcroft, volunteering to tell everything he knew about the bombing and the others involved.
Not only did no one from
Attorney General Ashcroft's office follow up with Nichols.
They actually issued, apparently, an order barring him from all contact with the media.
It was thereafter that he reached out to me, and I was able to get in to see him.
I spent a day and a half with him.
Describe how he reached out, what you had to go through to be able to meet with him, and what happened in that hour and a half meeting.
It was a day and a half.
Day and a half, excuse me.
Basically, I was able to come in under the radar.
I'm sure if they'd known why I was there, I would never have gotten in.
But you're a lawyer, you're a counselor, that probably helped you.
I'm sure it did, but the real story is that this man apparently wants to tell his story.
Now, I can't assure your audiences that what he says is true.
You, sir, have more knowledge about the... I mean, you're relating things about the history of the bombing case that I wasn't aware of, so you apparently have studied this a long time and know a lot about it, a lot more than I do.
Well, I made up my first film about it in 1997, but I've just interviewed literally hundreds of experts on the subject.
Now, I know they've sealed this, but we can talk about what the press has reported and any other facets you feel comfortable in getting into.
What did Larry Nichols tell you?
What's in the affidavit?
That I don't feel comfortable talking about, but this I can tell you what is already out there in the public record as a result of this lawsuit that led me
Uh, to go see Mr. Nichols.
Uh, when you sue under the Freedom of Information Act, there, for documents, government documents, there are two exemptions that are bulletproof that you cannot get around, that you will not get the documents.
National Security and... Well, that's actually three.
The other one, the other two are, uh, if there's an ongoing criminal investigation,
Or if the government has promised anonymity or confidentiality to informants.
I was fearful that the government would come back, the FBI would come back and say they had reopened the investigation.
In which case I would have gotten nothing.
Instead they came back and told the federal judge that they had promised confidentiality to four informants.
And please not to turn over any documents.
Well the judge said he would allow them to black the names out.
But to turn the documents over.
And the documents show that the FBI's informants were robbing banks and armored cars with Tim McVeigh to get the money to construct the bomb.
And that one of the four informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught them how to make the bomb.
Now, to be specific here, this is creating the history, the ledger, and this is what McVeigh said, they were staging fake robberies to create the illusion that it was an organic, domestic group that was going to carry out the attacks.
Classic black ops, where they go out and engage in criminal activities as a smoke screen.
That's basically what some of the things that Nichols said.
Classic black op, gladio type op.
Please continue.
The, uh, as I said, the documents, uh, are, it's not me making this up.
The documents show that at least as recently as two days before the bombing that they actually called Elohim City asking for help.
And this was reported by one of the informants that four months before the bombing, another informant had not only reported the plan, but it said that they had actually scouted the target.
Now, Hal was one of the informants earlier, and she tried to warn them, and then they tried to arrest her and charge her, telling her to shut up.
They did prosecute her, but she wasn't convicted.
I understand.
Please continue.
And, uh, so many of these things that, uh, I would not have gotten where I am today on this, but for people have, and I don't know who's, who has done it, had leaked me copies of records.
There's a lot of feds that don't like killing kids in a daycare.
They're not going to put up with it.
And that made my case in front of the federal judges.
I had, unknown to the FBI, I had two copies, two documents already about this operation.
And so when I asked for the records, they came back, the FBI did, and reported to the judge that there were no such documents.
And then I filed those two copies, and then the FBI came back and said that they were fake, and I had an affidavit from an FBI agent who said they were real.
And with that, the judge lost all patience with the FBI.
They had no credibility with him.
And then later, didn't it turn out that similar documents and some of the same documents had been released before, but without some of the names blacked out, and then that proved they were real?
Yes, they'd found a way out through another source, apparently.
They've never denied the documents.
They now can see them.
And when they were ordered to produce them, to do a manual search, they came back and produced about 100 pages of them.
Where does it go from here?
I mean, where does your suit go?
How much danger is Nichols in?
Quite honestly, I'm afraid, I'm surprised he's still alive.
Not only is my brother dead, Guthrie dead, I had an eyewitness to my brother's murder and he was found hanging in his cell too.
I don't think so.
And I'm thankful to your show and others like you, sir, that let the story get out there, because to me, that was my best insurance policy.
Oh, my heart was beating this morning just to get you on for my safety.
I mean, I know you cannot keep this type of stuff secret.
You've got to get it out immediately.
That's your insurance policy.
And I was surprised how quickly they were able to get everything sealed.
Final segment with you, sir, after this quick break.
Other key facets we'll walk through and delineate here with our guest, attorney-at-law of Jesse Trinidou, whose brother was brutally tortured to death, Kenneth Trinidou.
The bottom line is, no man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on a-coming.
Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonald, we'll be right back.
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I think so.
I called our guest at about 8 a.m.
this morning, my time, and he was already at the office.
He's been there since 5 a.m.
He's very exhausted.
A lot of filings.
He's got his own practice, of course.
We really appreciate him spending time with us to come on today, and we're trying to get him on for longer next week.
In the five minutes we've got left, Jesse Trinidad,
Where is your case going now?
What's going to happen with this 19-page affidavit that has been filed?
And what are some of the materials you sent us today that we posted on InfoWars.com?
Well, first of all, again, Mr. Jones, I want to thank you for, may have been the first, I think you were the first person to report this story back in 2004 and didn't say it was crazy.
What I filed that affidavit for was to get an order from the judge to allow me to take the deposition of Terry Nichols and to videotape that deposition.
That's the only way his story will ever get out there.
Good Lord, you have a video?
No, I said it's to get an order to allow that to happen.
To order the government to produce him and let me take that deposition and videotape that deposition.
You cannot tell that whole story in a declaration.
You cannot tell, he's made that very clear to me.
I know you'd like to be able to tell us what you learned in a day and a half of interview with him.
The more important things are the documents that were attached to that affidavit that were sealed too.
Some of them were from, most of them were from the FBI and some were from Tim McVeigh's defense team outlining exactly what happened.
So the defense team knew?
But Stephen Jones didn't bring that out?
I don't think they were allowed to bring it out.
If I recall correctly, and I wasn't paying attention to the trial, that the judges would not allow in evidence of other people being involved.
Well, bottom line, Nichols and yourself are in grave danger while this is sealed, and I know you can't violate this federal proceeding in a seal order, but I mean, these documents, you just said it, the defense detailing inside job, did the federal documents detail that?
I read them that way.
I read them as others involved.
Bottom line, your educated inside view of this, off the cuff, why do you think the government was involved orchestrating this?
I don't know if they intended it.
I think my feeling is that the FBI had
It fumbles the ball so badly at Wake on Ruby Ridge that I do remember this, that they were under constant pressure and criticism from Congress and from the media and from the public.
The ATF was close to being disbanded.
I think they put together this harebrained idea at Elohim City to lure in all these militia groups under the pretense of teaching them how to rob banks and armored cars and attack the federal government.
And I think they plan to catch them in the act.
I don't, for a moment, think they intended
The bombings take place?
Well, that's what the BATF tried to leak and claim.
The same thing every time they get caught in England with British Intel carrying out attacks, they always claim they just missed it.
And let me tell you, sir, I've studied this.
They may tell some of their BATF that showed up in bomb gear a minute after the bomb went off, but for the insiders, they meant to bomb it the whole time.
You know, that building was blown from the inside out.
Well, I'm not an explosive instructor, but my personal view is that it got away from them.
Well, either way, they're culpable.
Oh, yes.
I mean, you can't.
To me, I think you step way over the line when your informants are robbing banks and armored cars.
Well, did you see the report out of the Orlando Sentinel where the Nazi rally was led and organized by an FBI informant?
I read that report.
I mean, I've seen this a hundred times.
In fact, I've never really seen a big case where it isn't the Feds running it.
Well, my experience, at least in this case, has been whenever you have three people who get together to criticize the federal government, two of them will be informants.
We've got about a minute and a half left.
Any other key points you'd like to add, sir?
Other than that they've not denied it.
I mean, the accusations I made against the FBI are that they set up this operation, that they had informants who robbed banks with McVeigh to fund the attack, that they had an informant who was the explosive instructor and taught them how to make the bomb, and they got away from them.
They have not once denied those accusations.
They have just begged this federal judge not to order the release of the documents.
Now, clearly, if I made those accusations against you, wouldn't you have denied them?
Then we have Danny Colson who claimed he got up there in just an hour or so from Dallas by car with the hotel receipt that he was there the night before.
Well, so one other thing I might add is it's my understanding that the BBC is going to run an hour special on the bombing and perhaps the government's involvement.
It's going to be a total whitewash.
I was in the 9-11 piece last week.
Well, I didn't see it.
I don't know.
I haven't seen it yet, but yeah.
It's supposed to be the 4th of March.
Okay, we got 20 seconds left.
Any other points, sir?
Other than I expect a hell of a fight from the Department of Justice over that deposition.
Trying to keep it sealed indefinitely?
Not let it happen.
Not let me be able to take Nichols' complete statement.
What's the time frame on getting that statement?
Whenever the judge hears the case and orders.
And rules on the motion.
Thank you so much for your courage, Jesse Trinidad.
Let me talk to you for one minute off air.
Thank you for joining us.
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To paraphrase that passage in the Bible, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed.
You throw something into the deepest depths of the ocean, it will one day be tossed back onto the shore.
Again, I just think about my job, what I do.
This morning as I was scrambling, setting up this guest, and reading news articles, and going back and doing research, refreshing my memory.
I just literally almost hit my knees and thank God that I'm in this position.
I never thought that I would be a radio broadcaster internationally.
I never thought I'd be a newshound.
I never thought I'd be doing what those old gumshoes did long ago, what the straw hat reporters did.
And here we are, 21st century, frontline muckrakers engaging the New World Order at point-blank range.
It's scary too to do what we do because we're going toe-to-toe with these guys.
We're going against them 110% to bring them down.
I would have been all over this story and been on the phone with Trinidou yesterday and I would have had Trinidou on Coast-to-Coast AM with me last night.
I didn't even think to call Coast-to-Coast AM to get on the show.
I didn't think to even call Trinidad, even though he was in the article and I broke the story, as you heard him say, because I was too busy down at the law office filing lawsuits on someone, which makes me even madder at them for the lies they put out that I have to spend all this money to get my good name back!
Excuse me.
Excuse me.
It just makes me angry!
Because my time is so precious!
I am so frustrated because there's so many things that I need to do.
So many things we need to get done.
Don't want to explode here on air.
There is so much happening, so much going on.
We've got Kevin Barrett in studio.
The Wisconsin professor who's been all over national and international television exposing 9-11.
And then I don't even know now if I want to have that Cliff Kincaid neo-con and conservatives clothing on in the third hour, but I've got him coming on just so you can hear the type of stuff these people put out.
So that's coming up.
And there is just so much going on.
I don't even know what to say.
Let me just read over these articles now to give you some more background on Oklahoma City, because this is a direct line into 9-11.
Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official apparently was directing Timothy McVeigh and the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack according to a new affidavit filed in U.S.
District Court in Utah.
The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma.
Nichols claims in the February 9th lawsuit.
Affidavit for the lawsuit.
And let me just add, I was talking to Jesse Trinidad during that three-minute break, and he added some more points.
He said that he was out of time, he had to go to court, but that he never has been called a kook, never been called a liar, never been demonized by the FBI.
They're just desperately trying to ignore him.
Well, the ignoring him is over.
The ignoring him is over.
The official and other conspiracists are being protected by the federal government.
Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, to protect the informants, such as social security numbers and dates of birth.
The U.S.
Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations.
The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C.
also declined comment.
Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City Attorney Jesse Trinidou, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing.
The lawsuit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the Federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trinidou for a bombing conspiracy
And that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
Yeah, uh, no, that's not what he says.
FBI went in and killed him and tortured him to death.
Trinidou's death a few months after the April 19th, 1995 bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations.
The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.
Uh, why didn't the article, uh, well, why didn't they publish the photos?
I know for a fact Trinidou gave them the photos.
They're up on InfoWars.com.
He's got the, uh, double point shock
Wounds all over his body, under his arms, of course we don't post these, but genitals, feet, huge, what looked like electrical burns where the prods weren't working, so they just hooked something up to a wall outlet, uh, slit his throat, beat his whole head in, just, I mean, this guy's purple from end to end.
In the app to David Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack in the Alford B. Murrah building.
Which took 168 lives.
He alleges that he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help him identify all parties who played a role in the bombing, but never got a reply.
Nichols, serving a life sentence at the U.S.
Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado.
McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing.
However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols.
He says he learned sometime in 95 that there had been a change in the bomb target, and it was going to be Nebraska, Omaha, Dallas, they were looking at different places, that there had been a change in the bombing target, and McVeigh was very upset by that.
There, in what I believe was an actual slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh and the bomb plot, Nichols says in the affidavit.
So again, two newspapers have seen this, now they've sealed it.
Too late!
Too late!
Too late!
Too late!
Too late!
Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer of weapons and explosives.
He later learned that the robbery was staged, so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a protected witness, and there's federal documents.
Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
Again, they did the research.
Tuesday's came out.
Yesterday morning, Wednesday.
It's now Thursday.
In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb.
The evidence that he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and displayed a level of expertise and sophistication that neither man had.
There's a lot more than what this article put.
You just heard the lawyer who's got the affidavit filed did the day and a half of interviews with him.
Now let's read the DesertNews.com story.
All these are up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com with a whole bunch of pages of documents, federal documents, for the first time being posted at InfoWars.com right now.
In fact, I'm told they've been up for 30 minutes.
Oh, man.
Nichols says bombing was FBI op.
Boy, that's an interesting headline out of a mainstream newspaper.
Detailed confession filed in Salt Lake about Oklahoma City plot.
The only surviving convicted criminal in the April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building in Oklahoma City is saying his co-conspirator, Timothy McVeigh, told him he was taking orders from a top FBI official and orchestrating the bombing.
Let me say that again.
We're good.
The declaration was filed as part of a Salt Lake City attorney, Jesse Trinidou's pending wrongful death suit against the government for the death of his brother in a federal corrections facility in Oklahoma City.
Trinidou claims his brother was killed during an interrogation by FBI agents when agents mistook his brother for a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing investigation.
The most shocking allegation in the 19-page signed declaration is Nichols' assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation and that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instruction from former FBI official Larry Potts of Ruby Ridge fame.
Potts was no stranger to anti-government confrontations, having been the lead FBI agent in Ruby Ridge in 92, which led to the shooting death of Vicki Weaver, the wife of separatist Randy Weaver.
Potts also reportedly involved in the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas in 93, which resulted in the fire that killed 81 Branch Davidian followers.
He's now a former FBI agent, by the way.
He was an FBI agent, former retired, past retired from the FBI under intense pressure and criticism for the cover-up of an order to allow agents to shoot anyone seen leaving the Weaver Cabin at Ruby Ridge.
When contacted, the FBI's main office in D.C.
said it would not provide immediate comment on Nichols' claims Tuesday.
Nichols claims that in December 1992, McVeigh told him that while he was serving in the U.S.
Army, he'd been recruited to carry out undercover missions for the Secret Assassination Squad.
What did I tell you, folks?
Men formerly associated with Special Forces.
In the next few years, I've had these guys following me, and they've even threatened me.
Hey man, I'm an American defending the Republic.
You do whatever you need to, criminals.
And you'll see what they'll do to you later.
In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot in October 94.
You think it's manly to kill people, don't you?
Kill good people.
You kill me, you got God to deal with, punks.
In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot.
In October, 1994, McVeigh and I stole explosives from a quarry in Marion, Kansas, consisting of 8 1⁄2 cases of boxes containing 229 2 1⁄2-inch sticks of gel-type explosive known as Tovex.
Again, they told everybody it was fuel oil.
Ha ha ha!
Nichols wrote, adding that only a small amount was used in the actual bombing.
It was while traveling the gun show circuit that Nichols claims the two obtained bomb-making knowledge and materials used in the bombing.
And of course that was an FBI informant teaching them for the diversionary bomb.
There were bombs inside.
One example is that McVeigh allegedly...
Attended a gun show in Knob Creek, Kentucky in 93.
At this gun show, McVeigh had the opportunity to make contact with about 20 people who were bomb experts.
McVeigh told me that he himself had no knowledge about how to construct a bomb, but that he always wanted to gain more knowledge about how to conduct bombs.
This is basically the newspaper whitewash of all this, folks.
Now, the statement contradicts findings by Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, whose study of the bombing was made public last year.
It indicated Nichols had traveled to the Philippines to receive bomb training from impossible foreign terrorists.
Yeah, that's the Republican fallback.
They had Iraqi Republican Guard clearly involved.
This is how black ops work, folks.
You got white supremacists, you got militias, you got sheep-dipped Special Forces McVeigh, you've got bank robbers running around.
But you've got Arabs at the scene and those videotapes have been sealed, but I've interviewed the police and others and FBI's on record saying they saw the sealed surveillance tapes showing the Arabs.
So then it gets so confusing, you're like, did the mob kill JFK?
Did the military?
Did the Cubans?
No, they're all involved.
That's how black ops work.
You have different levels of deniability.
Then you got bombs inside that Jane Graham, who was the head of HUD, was going through one of the maintenance sides to get up quicker.
She was late to work and she saw guys drilling the columns, planting large sticks of gray butter the day before.
After hearing about the bombing of the Federal Building, which killed 168 adults and children, Nichols said he panicked when his name came up on the radio and he wanted to turn himself in, but not before hiding evidence, including explosives, using the bombing.
The claims made in the declaration have added yet more twist to the mystery surrounding the bombing, some familiar with the bombing's history.
Sir Nichols' claims seem to indicate the FBI put McVeigh up to the plot as a draw for radicals, but that the situation got out of control, and McVeigh became a runaway informant.
That is not what happened, that's their fallback story, it always is.
I mean, how many of those British bombings, oh, we didn't stop it in time!
Then you turn out the guy cooking the bombs, British intel, the guy driving it's British intel,
We've had those men on the show, by the way.
After reviewing the declaration, Rohrabacher told the Desert Warning News that Nichols' claims should be investigated by the tree with extreme skepticism.
I need to caution people to remember that Terry Nichols is a mass murderer.
Of course, Rohrabacher, a month ago, was on CNN going, there's a conspiracy, a cover-up of Oklahoma.
Clinton, Clinton.
Clearly, Clinton was involved.
But this goes deeper to the black-op government.
Ruby Ridge was planned under George Bush Sr.
George Bush Sr.
brought in the nearly 3,000 Iraqis.
Clinton brought in almost 2,000 more.
They were trained here by the CIA in the 80s, brought back in at the end of Desert Storm.
Source, Washington Post, LA Times, Social Press.
Then there's stuff like this, WorldNet Daily.
Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?
Hotel receipts show top terror man showed up nine hours before blast.
Danny Colson was in the DFW Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex area and he said that oh he couldn't get on a Southwest Airlines in time to fly up there so he drove and got there in a record two hours but then people reported he was there in less than an hour after the bombing.
Now that's on record.
Then it turns out he checked into a hotel
Nine hours before the blast, the FBI's top counter-terrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alpha P Murrah building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNet Daily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.
The Embassy Suites Hotel, Danny Colson, then Director of the FBI's Terrorism Task Force, Founding Commander of the Bureau's Hostage Rescue Team, was dated April 19, 1995, with a check-in time of 0.20, or 1220 AM.
Military time for 1220 AM.
His last name is spelled Colson on the receipt, but it indicates he is with the FBI located at 50 Penn Place.
Yeah, they misspelled on purpose.
The truck bomb exploded at 9.03 a.m., devastating half the building and killing 168 men, women, and children.
According to the receipt, Colson checked out of his hotel room at 4.06 April 27th at 11.16 a.m.
Now get ready for this.
They now have spun it and admit it.
The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the F.P.I.'
's official denial of prior knowledge of the O.K.C.
bombing was first reported by J.D.
Cash of the McMurton Oklahoma Daily Gazette, a small town paper that has been out front in the stories and O.K.C.
related reports.
Since the bombing, listen to this, officials of the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the F.P.I.
had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah Building.
My paper said Wednesday, however, evidence of Coulson's clandestine trip fits squarely with substantial bodies of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained via Freedom of Information Act requests.
The paper is evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counter-terrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups that considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of our nation.
So there's their spin.
They were shadowing them, yes.
And helping them rob banks, too.
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Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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Coming up in studio, Kevin Barrett, out there fighting the New World Order toe-to-toe, exposing the inside job that is 9-11, his new book, 9-11 and American Empire, Christians, Jews, and Muslims Speak Out.
Before we end this hour, I do want to remind all of you that I'm a documentary filmmaker, and my film, Road to Tyranny, was the first film out on 9-11.
I put out an emergency version of it that was only available for a few months.
Two weeks after 9-11, which was just a presentation with video clips, then three months later, in early 2002, I released the three-hour film, which right under three hours, 45 minutes of 9-11, The Road to Tyranny, is the definitive documentary on Oklahoma City alone.
Surveillance tape,
Of the Iraqi Republican Guard hired by the CIA, brought in by George Bush Sr.
In case locals caught them, they were going to claim Arabs did it.
And I've interviewed the police, the state police.
They even arrested them.
They had bomb-making materials, the blue jogging suits.
They had the surveillance videos from the surrounding areas.
I have police surveillance.
They shot in the weeks before.
You also had white supremacists involved.
All these groups, so they could blame different groups for it later, but it was entirely a government bombing with a diversionary provocateur truck bomb outside with explosives inside blowing the building out.
General Benton K. Parton's in the film.
All the clips, all the documentation, the newscast where they're reporting unexploded bombs and they're removing the bombs.
Governor Keating breaking it down.
You need to get road to tyranny just for the 45 minutes of the almost three hours.
So, we start the film with a history of government-sponsored terror.
We then go into Oklahoma City.
We, of course, go into the attack in 1993 where the FBI cooked the bomb, trained the drivers, provocateur-ed the whole incident with the attack there.
And then of course we go into 9-11 where they can't count on provocateurs anymore or patsies.
They just totally staged the event themselves and we walk through that and then show you why they wanted to do it, the police state and the wars they wanted to start.
And we said in the film in 2002 they're going to invade Iraq and they're going to invade other countries, Iran, Syria, because we went off the PNAC, documents themselves.
Early 2002, it is a testament.
The film just gets better with time, more and more accurate with time as things flesh out.
You need to get 9-11 The Road to Tyranny if you don't have it on DVD or VHS.
It's over three hours with the extras, but the film is close to three hours and it's got about, what, 30 minutes of extras at the end that I did
Because it's more of a second edition later in 2002.
There's only been three editions of it, but that's the final edition of Road to Tyranny.
All three of my Police State films are now in a box set for $34.95.
That's 45% off.
Police State 2000, which shows the Marines trying to put you in camps, admitting they're trying to take your guns and put you in camps, and the FEMA camps, and the whole Police State grid, then Police State 2, the takeover, then Police State 3, total enslavement.
It's what one of the films is three hours long the others are over two so we're talking about
Almost 10 hours of footage on those three DVDs in one box set available at InfoWars.com.
We've got 9-11 Inside Job, InfoWars.com, black baseball caps now available.
We've got 9-11 Inside Job black t-shirts now available.
We've got little FM transmitters you can plug into your computer and play the radio show for a couple houses around you or you can boost it with an antenna and go several hundred feet further.
Those are now available at InfoWars.com.
And your purchase of these items not only gets you more informed and to have these key tools on your shelf in your library, it supports what we're doing here in my growing staff and the different operations we've launched against the globalists in our war against their tyranny and dehumanization.
The toll-free number to call and order the films as well is 1-888-253-3139.
That's 888-253-3139.
5-3-3-1-3-9 or you can also write to me.
I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar Suite 100 Austin, Texas 787-04 and don't forget all my films you can watch them right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv Great Activist Center PrisonPlanet.tv get your membership today second hour 70 seconds away with Kevin Barry
Copies of the preceding broadcast are available at GCNlive.com or call toll-free 877-376-45.
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Waging war on corruption.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Literally, waging war on corruption.
Crashing through the lies and disinformation.
Monday through Friday, live from 11 to 2, Central Standard Time.
By the way, I'm tired of forgetting, I know my staff is listening.
Guys, get me the list of the five affiliates we got last week.
Because I keep saying I'm going to plug them, and I never get a proper list.
I hear the names, I thank the program directors, and then I just forget about it.
I want to get that and thank them before this hour ends, and I want to thank them on the Sunday show that's gotten a lot of new affiliates as well.
We're just so blessed, so thankful to God.
Big guest coming up, eyewitness to government operatives and the 7-7 bombings of 2005.
Right now, Mark in Canada.
You're on the air.
Thanks for holding.
Good, sir.
How you doing, Alex?
Big fanboy here.
Um, I like Bobby the Caller before.
I've been, uh, I'm burning Terror Storm copies right now.
I'm attending them out in Ottawa.
I go for walks at night.
I give out, um, Terror Storm and 9-11 Revisited.
Well done!
Those are the two I've chosen, and, uh, I just take about eight or nine out at night, walk around.
I always come home without them, so... I don't know if the people watch them, but... That's the best, is to fire and forget.
Carpet bombing, InfoWars, the best procedure.
Yeah, that's what I've been doing, so I'm doing my part.
I also went to a rally yesterday, my first protest, so that was kind of cool.
I have questions.
I've been trying to call him for a while, so these are kind of dated.
The bear-tainted HIV inoculation?
Yes, by design.
Is there anybody who has been looking into the WHO and the Red Cross, International Red Cross?
Red Cross was caught, it was all over Australian papers, knowing that it had AIDS in it, knowingly delivering it.
It's publicly admitted.
Is there anybody who's tracking, though, the growth of the epidemic?
The Helios Society has tried to.
They've been robbed once and there's been fire bombings as well of the doctor who worked in the prisons in Little Rock.
And so there's been some strange deaths as well.
So yeah, people have been trying.
But again, the murders and the fire bombings didn't stop it from coming out.
Okay, okay, excellent.
Would you ever have David Suzuki on your show to discuss global warming?
I don't know.
Who is David Suzuki?
David Suzuki is a big Canadian environmentalist.
He's been around for years.
Okay, now I've heard the name.
I had to place it.
Did you hear my analysis of it?
Oh, I've listened to your show since Charlie Sheen came out, pretty much daily.
So what did you think?
Oh, I think you're bang on.
I'm just curious if he would agree with you about the solution that they're proposing, or if he would be saying it's not 3%, it's 10%, that kind of stuff.
Well, listen, that's not me just saying 3%.
I mean, there's a bunch of different studies, and even the U.N.
study says, well, humans are 6% of it, but it still is the tipping point.
The sun's heating up.
And then the point is, regardless, regardless, their solution of a global tax has nothing to do with it.
That's all I'm saying!
No, I agree.
I agree.
My next question has to do with Ron Paul and Mike Rivera has been talking about the Jefferson Manual and that it takes one governor to start the impeachment procedures.
And that is starting up in New Mexico and several other states.
Okay, so Ron Paul isn't in a position to start that as well?
They already used it against him in his last campaign, ineffectively, when he came on my show and said Bush should be impeached.
That was already used against Paul, so I don't know if he will call for something like that because then it would be misinterpreted by conservatives.
But certainly, he says anyone who voted for the war should be removed and impeached.
Next question, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the other thing that stipulates that the U.S.
can't supply aid to a country that is a nuclear power unless it allows inspectors.
That's another thing Mike Rivera was talking about.
Is that going to matter?
Like, is there any way that they can even enforce that?
No, no, and you can't enforce it, and the UN doesn't enforce it, and Israel doesn't follow it, and China doesn't follow it.
The point is, South Africa's got nukes, brother.
Listen, I appreciate your call.
Pakistan, India.
We'll be right back.
Stay with us.
Big guest.
It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
It's an anthology of government crimes.
Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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Big Brother, Mainstream Media, Government Cover-Ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.
Now 8 minutes, 42 seconds into this second hour.
And for the balance of the hour, I'm extremely honored to be joined by Steve Watson of Infowars.net and PrisonPlanet.com from London, England, and Daniel Obuchacki, also joining us from England.
Now, let me just set the table here.
On the morning of 7-7-2005, three bombs blew up, destroying three different train passenger carriages, killing quite a few people, tragically.
Over an hour later, a bus that had been specifically singled out and redirected, and these reports had already come out by other witnesses, exploded, causing quite a few deaths and injuries.
And then it came out that the former head of Scotland Yard's Public Relations, Peter Powers, had been hired to run a drill of the exact same trains, exact same times, being bombed, the exact same day.
And we've had the actuary mathematics done on that.
It's in the Trek to Gillian's.
That's 43 zeros, my friends, behind it.
That's many, many more times, billions of times more than all the grains of sand in all the world.
On 9-11, they're doing a drill of flying hijacked jets in the World Trade Center and Pentagon at the exact same time yet again as well.
It's always the same MO.
They do this in case other compartments of the government discover it.
The other operatives can just say, hey, we're taking part in a drill.
It also bootlegs the funding
It also creates chatter that confuses Echelon, InfoPole 9, the NSA, MI6, the different listening stations.
So if they pick up on it, they can say, oh, that's just the drill too.
There are hundreds of points concerning the London bombing.
First they said that it was simultaneous and they said no it wasn't simultaneous.
It turned out they were correct.
It was simultaneous bombings on all three of the trains.
Something went wrong.
We had surmised from all the evidence something hadn't detonated on the bus.
People reported there was not an Asian man down there.
People reported that suddenly there was just an explosion.
Folks had reported that the bus had been singled out and diverted.
I talked to bus drivers who'd heard about it.
I talked to technicians who worked in that bus terminal about strange things and strange technicians working on that bus.
And so we, from the evidence we had, something hadn't gone off simultaneously in the bus, so they redirected it.
While they were redirecting it, to make sure it went off from all the evidence we have,
So for an hour and several minutes they were announcing a power surge had caused some type of explosions.
Now, you've got three blown up trains, dead people everywhere, they're coming out, bleeding, dying, they're telling everyone bombs went off, and the police are saying, no, no, no, it's a power surge.
While, meanwhile, black sedans, blue sedans, motorcycles are directing this particular bus, the Hackney bus, to Tavistock Park, Tavistock Square.
On board that bus is Daniel Obuchieke, and Daniel
is there and he's now going to tell you what he witnessed and this is a eyewitness now other eyewitnesses interviewed by police and again most police are involved in this that's why we have Scotland Yard going we don't think these guys knew they had bombs we don't think that they were suicide bombers we think someone gave them these packages but then you got the problem of one of the bombers passports ID cards being found at two different bombings and somebody messed up in the planting
You've got Benjamin Netanyahu being admitted to Associated Press at least 30 minutes before getting a call and being told don't get on the trains, stay in your hotel room.
This is all on record.
You've got Giuliani there when this happens.
All very suspicious folks.
Same people, same players.
This is so disgusting.
And so we have Daniel there on the bus and he's going to tell you what he witnessed.
This is huge.
I cannot hype this enough.
I know Steve's working on a part two of this, so I want to bring up Daniel.
Daniel, thank you for coming on.
How are you doing?
That's okay.
Good, sir.
Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then give us a nutshell, give us a thumbnail sketch of what happened on that bus that morning, what you witnessed, and then any more details that you haven't already given us for the InfoWars.net story.
And I first want to say, thank you for your courage, sir.
Tell us first about yourself and how you got the courage to go public.
Okay, I'm just a regular guy.
I was born, bred, work in London and that day I was on my way to work in Old Street and there was some kind of disruption going on.
We were told it was a power surge and we were evacuated and that's how I became to be on the bus.
And then after that the bus left Houston full of passengers who were
Also evacuated and the bus seemed to be going nowhere so I looked out of the
Because I was standing on the lower deck, because I wasn't sure whether I was on the correct bus.
And then I peered ahead and I saw these two cars, which were a Mercedes and a BMW, blue and black, which seemed to be in front of the bus, holding it up.
And it was diverted about four or five minutes later, down towards Tavistock Square.
And I think the results are quite evident for everyone else to see what took place in Tavistock Square.
Please continue with once you got to the square what you saw.
Oh well, after the explosion you can understand I was on the floor so it took about five seconds to the noise had actually quietened down and then I I just got up and then I ran
We're good to go.
Left, right, and what was going on.
Then I looked behind me and I saw the bus, the upper deck of which had been completely destroyed by the bomb explosion.
Um, and then I just, I think at that point my, my mind must have just changed into some kind of, I was really not frightened, but I was aware that something amiss was going on and
I was just looking at the people moving into the actual space on the square.
There were guys who were hanging around.
There was a row of policemen who were just standing there in yellow fluorescent suits, jackets.
They weren't doing anything.
They were just watching.
There was this guy filming, and I'm saying, what is going on here?
It didn't feel right.
So, um, I actually went and helped some woman who had been walking beside the bus.
She was covered in blood.
And then I helped her to get some kind of help at a hotel which was further down the square.
And I passed this gentleman who seemed to have acquired some kind of
I don't think so.
Yeah, I think so.
We're good to go.
Fake injury and he was just some guy who was I don't know what his role was Specifically there were a lot of people observing I noted some people were running forward the medical staff and the medical Professionals were you could tell who they were because they were trying to see what they could do for people half of them Some people were just they weren't going to make it some people they were trying to do something for them but then there were these other people who were just
Watching, taking note, organizing people, moving things.
How many seconds, I mean, how long did it take you to get out of the bus, and then how long did it take you, because you say 60 seconds, to then notice that this guy's way up the street with a bandage on his head rolling around?
I left the bus within 12 seconds.
I got down that street in another 10 seconds.
So within 25 seconds, I had witnessed the cameraman and about
15 seconds after that I actually noted this chap so it was within 45 seconds he was actually with some kind of headband and lying on the street.
I don't know how he got there because if it was a bus blast he must have been flung about 40 to 50 feet and that is not really feasible with the injuries which he was displaying.
And it was the wrong direction from the way the blast went.
How many operative types or police did you see when you got off the bus around you already staring at it?
Okay, there were about four...
Guys in blue bottoms and who had rucksacks, they were kind of foot soldier types.
There were about two or three people who were just standing in the doorway, just watching everything.
And there was another guy who was coordinating everything, coordinating in plainclothes and coordinating police, when they finally came forward to actually do something.
Just all there waiting.
Oh, here comes the bus.
Unbelievable, sir.
Please stay with us.
We've got Steve Watson waiting in the wings with other key comments and questions.
Your courage is amazing.
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I think.
This is not a myth
Daniel Lobachek, he is our guest.
Born and bred Londoner.
Talking to her in the break, it was just unbelievably powerful.
I remember making Terror Storm and saying to Rob, my editor here in the office, I go, that photo looks fake.
Bandages all over his face, thinly placed, no blood except on his chest, and it looked like it was put on out of a ketchup dispenser, little squirters that you use just kind of dribble down the front.
And so many times my instincts are right.
Well, it turns out that's the individual that, within 60 seconds, was flopping around and prancing around in front of cameras and all the waiting police.
And notice, though, they didn't... All over every major newspaper in the world, all over every major television network in the world, every news program in the world, no one interviewed him, no one said, where is he now?
No one said his name.
Everybody else they showed bloodier bleeding.
A day later, they'd say, here's their name.
Not him.
And now the photo's being jerked.
Yeah, this guy, he was the one that got my kind of curiosity going, because I walked past there with this, escorting this woman who was hurt, and then I saw him, he had this bandage around his head, his leg
I don't
He just seemed so fake, so I thought this man must have had prior knowledge, prior intelligence, and he was positioned here.
For what reason?
I don't know.
Then I conducted a search of my own online because a few days after the 7th of July, his picture, his image was everywhere.
And about a month ago, I looked and it had been totally pulled.
I mean, it wasn't on any of the BBC websites.
It wasn't on
Any of the international news sites, you just couldn't find this guy.
I actually spent about two days searching, and then I got two images of him, and that's what you see on WorldWideWebTheFourthBomb.com, which is my site where the truth and the facts of what happened in Tavistock Square that day are.
Now, again, your story meshes with all the other witnesses, all the other evidence we have, but I want to be clear before we bring Steve Watson up in the next segment, who wrote this with you, and I really am thankful for his great journalistic skills and your courage.
Going back, specifics, slow down, take your time.
When you see the blue and black Mercedes and the motorcycle cop and the discussion with the bus driver and it's redirected, let's go back to when they first directed you in the bus to Tavistock Square.
Okay, yeah, um, well, what do you want to know?
The bus was... Just slow down and describe everything to me.
Just slow down and tell me how they pulled up, what they did, what they, you know, what their body motions were like, just everything, what they looked like.
Okay, it left Houston Bus Station and proceeded down Houston Road.
It was supposed to go straight from Houston to Kings Cross, but these two cars were blocking its path.
And then after a short time, a police motorcyclist whizzed up on his bike and had a word with one of the drivers.
White men, black men, Asian men, what do they look like?
No, the police, the drivers were of European appearance.
The motorcyclist had a helmet, so he had a brief word with one of the drivers.
And I thought, okay, thank God for that, this guy
We'll tell the driver to go and then we can get to where we need to be going.
But instead of the police motorcyclist getting the car to leave, they told him to leave and he just turned around and sped off.
Did you see them flash anything?
They didn't flash anything.
He waved something.
It could have been some kind of card or pass or something, but as soon as the police
Who waved?
The driver of the blue Mercedes or the black?
The driver of the BMW.
And what color?
The BMW was blue, correct?
Blue, yes.
The driver of the BMW waved the motorcyclist away with some form of identification.
I only assume he had some form of identification.
You saw him, something in the hand waved it.
Yeah, that was it.
Absolutely key.
Stay there.
Your debriefing will continue on the other side.
Steve Watson will join in.
This is absolutely vital, and we're trying to keep this man safe right now by him getting his entire story out in more detail.
I'm Alex Jones, battling the New World Order at point-blank range.
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Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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I know it was two years ago or a year and a half ago.
I know that it's not big and spectacular like 9-11, but a lot of people died and it was used when the British nation was refusing to go along with the war in Iraq when Tony Blair had barely hung on to his position when he had lost almost the entire majority that the Labour Party had in Parliament.
And it came right when they were having their big G8 Summit in Glen Eagles.
And it was used as a grandstanding platform to say, see, the terrorists are hitting us.
We've got to get tough.
And every indices, every piece of evidence, even Scotland Yard and other police forces who had real detectives out were going, these guys weren't suicide bombers.
That's buried in the newspaper.
These guys, we think somebody planted this stuff on them or they didn't know.
They don't fit the MO.
There was a bomb under one of the trains, not in it.
Eyewitnesses said that.
You add all these, there's hundreds of points.
We put them in the film Terror Storm, that I hope you'll get from Infowars.com.
That's why it's so important we spend about 30 minutes of the two-hour film, or a little bit more than 30 minutes, in London, documenting this.
And we even show shots of newsstands.
We were there two weeks after the attacks.
And we show newsstands where there's literally like 15, 20 newspapers and magazines, and it's all
Pictures of the bombing, and half of them are this guy with the thin, one layer of bandage.
Understand, folks, I've worked for a large animal vet.
My dad's a neurosurgeon.
I've been in hospitals.
I've worked around it.
I've worked in the medical field when I was in college as a dental assistant.
But even if you haven't, you know common sense.
You don't take thin gauze bandage.
One layer.
We're good to go.
No, it appears to be a cap, woven heavily on the top, and then just thin, thin one straps around his face, like it was some type of already woven helmet he just put on his head.
45 to 60 seconds after the blast, he's flopping around, way towards the front, 50 yards north of it.
There's other people videotaping, spook types walking around, and then no interviews with him, we never learn his name, he's just, you remember the guy with the bandage.
And those eyes have it all.
Ferret-like, scanning, calculating.
And I just remember going, man, that is, something's going on.
That doesn't look right.
And then he has like a potato, a ketchup bottle, you know, that you spray onto your potatoes.
You spray onto your french fries.
It, like a dribble on his shirt.
And you take movies like The Quiet American by Graham Greene, which is based on real events.
They just changed the names.
That's when the Times of London reporter, who's based there in southern Vietnam, he's been recruited by the CIA guy.
He doesn't know he's CIA.
And the CIA guy is actually running terror attacks to blame it on the North to escalate the war.
This is before the war really kicks off in the late 19...
50s, and it's based on true stories.
That really happened.
And then all of a sudden, he doesn't know the guy's CIA, and suddenly these bombings blow up in the square and kill all these women and children.
And then he's running around, the CIA guy, giving orders in Vietnamese.
And the Times of London writer just goes, and just leans back and realizes, well, literally, the man you're listening to right now saw something just like you see in that movie.
I will do.
Okay, yeah.
Well, it took the Police Investigating Anti-Terrorist Branch of Scotland Yard seven months to question me.
I actually called them, contacted the Emergency Information Hotline the following day, but they didn't get back to me until the end of January 2006.
And I just felt it was as though they were trying to whitewash me to make out that I was not even there to actually completely make it look as though I was not even on board the bus.
But it is on record that you were there and there's an upcoming book concerning it.
Yeah, there is.
That's what The Fourth Bomb, the book, is about and what I went through.
Some surveillance, some... I don't know whether they were MI5, Anti-Terrorist Branch, or what government organisation, but I had a lot of probing.
I even had... I even gave an interview with a journalist called Duffy.
I don't know.
And I said no, and about a day or two after that, then, it was, Hassid Hussein was named as the bus bomber in the British press.
And let's be clear, none of the people on the bus said they saw any Asian men?
No, they didn't.
And I was downstairs, I saw no Asian guy.
At all.
Well, in your own words, I mean, describe it.
Did you see any, and the other witnesses said they didn't, but did you see any Asian men?
None whatsoever.
None on board the bus, none carrying a rucksack at Houston or on the bus or at Tavistock Square.
Off the charts.
Just absolutely off the charts.
I mean, now you describe this harassment as overt surveillance, I guess to intimidate you.
Walk us through that, some of the stuff they did.
You started by following me when I came out of my office on lunch breaks.
They were waiting on the corner.
There's a place called the Honorable Artillery.
Um, barracks.
And that's 10 minutes from where I worked.
And that's where they kept all the dead bodies from the 7-7 attacks.
So the police outside there, every time I used to walk past, they used to have something to say, call my name or something like that.
And I think it was just a campaign trying to put psychological stress and pressure upon me because, obviously,
If it came down to me testifying, they want me to be deemed unfit to testify or something like that.
But I think they just didn't want a public inquiry anyway.
So they got their own way and there was no public inquiry.
Any other types of harassment?
And then let's talk about how you finally got your meeting with the police and what they did.
I was chased once in Aldgate.
A guy just came after me.
I had arranged to meet someone from the office and then I got there.
This guy came after me so I actually ran into this building and then he ran in there and followed me and I actually hid in some offices.
What did he look like?
He was actually there waiting for me.
That's the thing which threw me initially.
He was there waiting for me.
And as soon as I went past him, he just set off, crossed the road and came after me.
So I didn't run because I was scared of him because I'm not scared of any of these people.
Obviously you're on air.
I know I'm not scared.
If they want to do what they want to do, go ahead and do it.
The truth is going to be out there regardless.
So I just tried to escape from him by
You know I just thought here, see and I'm stupid, my instinct was I would have gotten a fight but you're smart because by then you knew it was police and actually they would have then got you claiming you just assaulted an officer and you know the 50 cameras on you in the surveilled city of four and a half million would have all malfunctioned and then they would have claimed you assaulted an officer.
Yeah, precisely.
That's what they were trying to do all along, because they asked my flatmate whether I had any criminal convictions.
They were already delving into my background and my past, trying to find out whether I had any kind of dodgy or criminal past or tendencies or convictions, and I think they were trying to use that as a kind of weapon with which they could frame me.
It's a lever.
That's what spooks and operatives and informants do.
We deal with that here locally.
Please continue.
I want to bring Steve Watson up.
You're just telling so much more now.
Steve, thanks for holding.
Any other key points you want to bring up here with Daniel?
Well, I was just going to say, why do you think it is that the police didn't ask you to come in and give a statement straight away?
You know, it was later revealed that
They relied on the testimony of people who were at the scene, but, you know, they were either injured or even unconscious in some cases.
And also, could you talk about, you know, some of the phone calls that you got from, you said you got some phone calls from different police departments across the country.
And you posted those up on your website as well.
Yeah, talk about that.
Yeah, they were from the West Yorkshire Police Constabulary.
They were the police constabulary investigating the four alleged bombers and one of them,
He decided to call me one evening and suggest something which I couldn't make out.
I said, hey, you've got the wrong number, guy.
And he continued and called the following day and I recorded it and posted it on the web.
It just says that I had a vehicle which was involved with transporting something or other to do with the investigation into the 7-7 bombing.
You know, I tell you what, I forgot to do this.
John, will you go to his website and again,
Daniel, give my producer at the network your website again.
We've got a link to it on Apple Wars.
World Wide Web.
The Fourth Bomb.
It's 4-4-4-t-h-bomb.com.
Yeah, go to thefourthbomb.com and I know I've listened to that a few days ago.
Where specifically is that clip so we can grab that right now and play it?
Yeah, it's if you go to one of the four boxes, I think it's the third box.
You also got audio on the web and video from the police interrogating you.
Let's tell that story.
Finally, six months later, after demanding it, you get there meeting with them.
Tell us about that.
Um, it, it was just, it wasn't as much as I had hoped it would.
They just took my details, but what they did was, um, he rushed through it.
It took four hours, but he rushed through it.
He was, it wasn't really as if they were depending on my information and eyewitness accounts.
Tell folks about the diagram.
Uh, the diagram, um, are you talking about which one?
Because there's been quite a few.
Oh yeah, the bus diagram, which they, um, asked me to, um, sign.
The bus diagram which they asked me to mark out, um, where the people were sitting on the bus and where the people were standing and what happened on the bus, it, the diagram was the complete
Wrong layout for the bus.
And I said to the anti-terrorist branch detective who was taking my statement, this is completely incorrect.
So by me signing this, that's just going to make, just going to render everything which I've told you inadmissible.
So I think it was just a ploy.
They didn't really want my information, as you would understand.
Steve, there's a lot of other facets to this.
Any other questions you've got for the guest we have?
Yeah, I would also point out that, you know, Daniel had a shirt, which I believe he still has, with, you know, victim's blood on it, which should have been taken for forensic testing, but they weren't even interested in that either.
If they'd worked out previously,
You know, a line to take on this, and they weren't deviating from the line, even though you've got, you know, a first-hand witness here saying this is incorrect.
You've got a layout of the bus which is incorrect.
I mean, if this doesn't tell us that we need an independent inquiry on this, then what else does?
Knowing what you know now, knowing all the evidence concerning government involvement or black ops involvement, intelligence involvement in past attacks and in the 7-7 attack, seeing your bus erected by these shadowy government characters, seeing people on the ground seconds after it happened, the fake bandages, what do you think was really going on there?
Who do you think was behind the bombings?
I know who wasn't behind the bomb of the bus, but I couldn't really hazard a guess.
It was obviously someone with a lot of power higher up.
I've got to live out here, so it's quite obvious who did it.
Unless I can actually provide evidence.
That's what the website is about.
Putting the evidence out there so people can decide for themselves.
But who didn't do it?
Because you didn't see an Asian, no one else on the record said they did.
Hassid Hussain didn't do it.
Hassid Hussain didn't blow up the bus.
But hey, who did?
So that's what we've got to find out.
And that's what we're all working towards.
And the truth will out.
That's one thing I know.
It's going to help.
Everything you're doing, everything like-minded individuals are doing, will feed to that.
This is just off the charts powerful.
And again, it fits with the other witness testimonies, all the other information we have.
How do you think individuals who did carry this out can live with themselves?
Just killing innocent
I don't think they, um...
Really care.
They have a role and they have an objective and their goal is doing that.
If it kills people, they say, hey, that's just how it goes.
We're saving you from the evil terrorists and all the crazy people in the world who are out to destroy you.
So they probably see their role as helping people, even though they're just killing people.
Yeah, we got to kill a few so they'll accept security to keep them safe.
Totally sick, Steve Watson.
Yeah, I mean, if we do delve into a bit of the evidence, we've got, you know, numerous advance warnings from other intelligence agencies, from French, Spanish, the Saudis, who said, you know, gave an exact time frame for this, and Scotland Yard themselves, who, you know, told the Israeli Embassy on the very morning, minutes before that it was going to
I think.
You know, keep working towards outing the truth on there.
Well, we need to put this guy's face up everywhere and we've got, look, we've got technologies to scan his face, do a composite by reducing to the lines beneath the bandages.
I actually know some police sketch artists who can, we can use computer mapping to get this guy's face.
This is the type of stuff we'll put a six feet under, but
What the hell?
We gotta stop the murderers.
It's here.
After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
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Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
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I think so.
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Welcome back.
I tell you, the courage of our guest, Daniel Obuchiki, the courage of Steve Watson, they're over there in London in one of the biggest police states in the world.
I mean, you try to videotape on the street, they come over and tell you to shut it off.
They don't allow protesting now.
There's secret police everywhere.
It is certainly like something out of V for Vendetta.
But the good news is, more and more is coming out.
You know, 80-something percent know they killed Diana now.
Eighty-plus percent know they killed Dr. David Kelly.
And everybody knows they're a bunch of criminals.
And you're coming down.
Your New World Order is going to fail.
And your big, fat German commander, Sachs-Coburg-Gotha, you know, just your criminality will be exposed.
I had to go public.
It was the only thing I could do.
They were constantly harassing me.
And even when I was trying to work and get jobs, they were getting in there and holding me, preventing me from gaining employment.
So I had to fight back somehow.
And the only way to get back is by making sure what it is they didn't want to be out there was out there.
So that's what the book, the forthcoming book, theforthbomb.com and the website
It's actually something that is helping me as well, helping me get through it.
He is referred to in the book, but it doesn't actually enhance the story that much.
There is another guy who was in the square that day, an agent, who I'm going to put something on one of the internet sites.
I don't think so.
Well, it's going to be on those TV websites where you can download media.
I'm going to stick it on one of those.
I'm just trying to find out where you got the video.
It was actually televised on the British television.
I understand.
So that's what I just guessed is that later you saw the news and said, hey, that's the guy.
You've got a clip of it.
Buddy, if you're pulling pictures of the other one, you better get that up now and not wait till the book comes out.
I'm telling you, Daniel, you're not stupid.
I'm not waiting.
You're not stupid.
You know how dangerous this is.
They just screamed it on TV because they thought no one would recognize him.
But because I was there, I just jumped and nearly hit the ceiling when I saw that.
And you were able to record it.
Oh, this is again.
Again, they're arrogant.
Stay there.
Final segment.
We'll play some clips when we get back of these strange phone calls and things.
I'm Alex Jones.
Stay with me.
This broadcast is available on MP3 CD format at GCNLive.com or call toll free 877-300-7645.
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I'm good.