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Filename: 20060922_Fri_Alex.mp3
Air Date: Sept. 22, 2006
2104 lines.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Well, we're extremely honored to be joined by our guest.
He came to our attention a few months ago when he wrote a great article titled Stop Belittling the Theories about September 11th, Bill Christensen.
And he joins us now.
We have time today.
We'll also take phone calls with our guest.
He's been a former member of Veterans for Intelligence Sanity.
Bill, thanks for coming on.
Well, listen, thank you for having me.
Very much.
I'm grieving for our country.
The police state is turning into how the war on terror is being used to dismantle our Constitution.
The drumbeat for war with Iran.
I want to get your take on all of that and why you've been questioning the official story of 9-11.
But first, tell us about Bill Christensen.
I did work for the CIA for, oh my goodness, 28 and a half years or so.
But I've been long retired.
Retired in 1979.
And I have to confess to something.
I'm a neophyte in this entire business of studying and comprehending, trying to comprehend better, what happened on September 11, 2001.
And I have to confess to you, and I know you are one of those who has worked his heart out on this issue a lot longer than I have, and you probably know a lot better.
A lot more about it than I do.
But up to half a year ago, I just wasn't buying any of the concepts that you and a number of others have been urging and advocating because I just couldn't conceive that this country had any elements in its government system
That would contribute to what happened on September 11 or caused it to happen or allow it to happen.
Use any words you want to use.
And ultimately, just about half a year ago, I decided, well, too many people are talking about this for me to sort of sit here
In my little ivory tower and say, I don't believe it.
And that's when I really began to study and read and it took me some mental agony and it took me probably the better part of the last half year to change my mind.
But I have, in fact, changed my mind.
There is simply so much evidence available today
That the official story that the government of the United States and the 9-11 commission that issued this 500-plus page report, almost the length of a Bible, I suppose, a couple of years ago, there is just so much evidence that many parts of this official story are simply wrong and don't match with the facts that...
You know, I'm not pleased or proud with my own activity over the last half dozen years, over the five years since September 11th, that it took me this long to wise up.
Well, it's... Here we are.
Exactly, but it's sad.
I mean, have you ever started...
Getting a few tears in your eyes when you really began to face this?
Oh my God, yes indeed.
How can you do otherwise?
I've broken down many times late at night doing research.
Because believe me, I wish it wasn't true either.
None of our families are safe.
Our whole country is basically gone.
We're going to come back and talk about your journey of awakening.
Stay with us, sir.
I think this is very important.
Stay with us, sir.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
Monday through Friday, 11 to 2 p.m.
Central Standard Time, retransmitted from 9 to midnight, blasting out on a growing list of brave and wonderful AM and FM affiliates, simulcasting on Global Shortwave, WWCR, and on the Internet at infowars.com and prisonplanet.com.
We're good to go.
Bill Christensen is our guest.
And for stations that just joined us, I want to recap some of the things that we just talked about.
Bill Christensen is a former senior official of the CIA, Central Intelligence Agency.
He was a national intelligence officer and the director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979.
And he has been writing and lecturing for many years and doing a lot of radio interviews on the subject of our foreign policy.
But in the last six months, he has begun to research 9-11.
He couldn't bring himself to believe that the official story could be a fraud.
He just talked about that in the last segment.
And this is the first time he's gone public on radio with the serious concerns that he has concerning an inside job, and we're extremely honored that he's chosen to do that here with us today, and we appreciate his patriotism and defense of this republic.
Sir, this is a longer segment, so we've got more time.
Can you go back through and then expand on your awakening process, where you began to research?
Well, listen, thanks a lot for the opportunity.
Anyway, though, I...
I spent the first four and a half years after September 11th just not willing to believe in the possibility that the official stories we were being given about what happened on 9-11 could in any way be a fraud.
I just wasn't going to believe that about our own...
And ultimately, just about half a year ago, it dawned on me that not only was I trying to avoid an issue that might be extraordinarily important, more important than any other issue affecting U.S.
policies, but that I hadn't even been studying the issue because I just decided it couldn't be true, so therefore, don't waste your time on it, Bill.
So I started to spend my time on it about half a year ago, and a few people whom I knew encouraged me to do that.
A lot of people told me they thought I was ridiculous to be wasting my time on that.
But I have since decided that the... And this is after a good deal of heartache on my part and a good deal of...
I'm wondering how this country could have gone so badly wrong when I then came to see that at least some elements in this U.S.
government of ours had contributed in some way or other to causing 9-11 to happen or at least allowing it to happen, making it easier for it to happen.
Making sure it happened in a way that would be very, very impressive to the world at large and would in fact be seen as another Pearl Harbor type of event that changed everything about the United States 65 years ago.
Did your decision to really start researching 9-11 six months ago, Mr. Christensen, did that come as an epiphany or was it a process?
And can you describe that process?
Yeah, well, I guess when you use the word epiphany, you mean it's something that sort of happens instantly or overnight or something like that.
So I'm not using that word epiphany, but just simply the more that I read about and tried to understand everything that had happened on 9-11 and saw...
All the objections to the official story that people such as you and a number of others who had really been working sort of in the wilderness on this book the whole time since September 11, or shortly thereafter, the more I began to read and study, the more I discovered that I just had to conclude, yes, indeed, there were...
Parts, at least parts, of the official story issued by the U.S.
government and issued by the long, over 500-page report of the 9-11 Commission, there were parts of those official stories.
That simply did not jive with the facts.
Well, you're right.
If you study the official story, they constantly change their story, they lie.
I mean, there's hundreds of points.
The FBI grabbing the flight recorders and telling the firemen that found it to shut up, ordering the FAA to shred tapes, public officials warned not to fly, NORAD...
Clearly standing down.
Cheney in control two months before taking the shoot-down powers away from NORAD for the first time since NORAD was set up.
CIA-connected insider trading.
All the Bin Laden connections.
The bizarre collapses of Tower 1, 2, and 7.
I mean, there's this whole field of questions.
Then we have the PNAC documents where Cheney and others are writing that we need a helpful Pearl Harbor event, a catalyzing event.
Brzezinski's saying that we've now discovered...
We're good to go.
I think?
You've been denying it, avoiding it, not looking at it.
What did you first see, or when did you finally say, okay, I'll look at it, and then what was that process like, and what were the points that were really most important to you?
You know, I guess the very first thing that made me really wonder was, and this is, I suppose, kind of elementary to you, but the size of the hole that was made in the Pentagon.
And there was a picture in the New York Times the very next day, September 12 of 2001.
And so I guess that was point number one with me.
Now, this is just sort of coincidence, I suppose.
Which issue do you look at first?
And then when you begin to read all of the details, and by the way, I...
I have to tell you that David Gray Griffin's books have been an immense help to me because he has done a very careful job of writing this up, and his views have gradually gone stronger from his first book to the current one, which I have just completed.
Yeah, he's now saying clearly an inside job.
Yeah, I know.
I know he is.
And he's gotten... His views have become stronger.
And you just have to look at that guy.
And, you know, he is not a fly-by-night analyst by any stretch of the imagination.
He probably has the kind of personality which does everything with great care and caution.
That's kind of my reading of him.
And so, in any case...
His stuff has had some influence on me.
But, you know, after what happened at the Pentagon, you begin to read up on the evidence behind the belief that the reason the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions
Rather than just being hit by two airplanes and that there's a third building that the 9-11 Commission apparently never even mentioned that also collapsed all the way to ground.
And all of the characteristics of these explosions show that they almost had to be controlled explosions.
Rather than something that happened because they're hit by an airplane, and here you have one of the three buildings that collapsed, not hit by any airplane.
So that was number two.
And then you start looking at all the NORAD stuff and the way the 9-11 Commission handled the hour and 45 minutes or so when not a single one of these planes, according to the official story,
Was it ever intercepted?
Maybe Flight 93 was intercepted in western Pennsylvania, but this kind of evidence just builds and builds and builds
I think some of the strongest, Mr. Christensen, is that we know that U.S.
Embassy heads were told to let some of the supposed hijackers, including Atta, back in.
When they wouldn't let them in, they got calls from the State Department saying that their terror listings were covers for covert operations.
They were involved in anti-terror operations.
Then we have all these news articles with them being trained in covert operations at U.S.
military bases.
I mean, that is really strong.
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and there are, as I started this off by saying, I was a neophyte compared to you and a number of other people, and that's absolutely true.
I know out there, because I've heard of it, that there are a lot of things I haven't even studied yet.
Well, let me be clear on this, Bill.
You're here because you're a great former CIA analyst, and it's a story of your courage now going public, and another example, another prominent...
We're good to go.
I think?
9-11 was used for foreign policy.
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We're going to open the phones up for our guest, Bill Christensen, former senior official of the CIA.
He was national intelligence officer and the director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement.
And he wouldn't look at 9-11 for four years.
And then six or seven months ago he began to research it and didn't like what he found.
Believe me, I don't like it either.
I try to war game against myself in our research.
I try to disprove it.
Believe me, I don't want to think this is true.
I love our country.
I don't want to think a bunch of psychopathic killers are in control.
But when you look at Operation Northwoods and PNAC documents, and then you look at all the evidence, physical on 9-11, there's no other.
I mean, if you really rationally study it, which I've done for thousands of hours over the years, it is horrifying.
I've made three films on the subject, and I've written a book on the subject, and it's just terrible.
Mr. Christensen, also, I want to get your take on... We've been lied to about WMDs.
The documents have come out.
White House memo that they premeditatedly lied.
Not just Downing Street memo.
We know that over $3 trillion is missing from the Pentagon in the last seven years.
And I've seen congressional testimony where Remsel says we're not going to tell you where it is.
There is mass no-bid contract looting going on.
There are all sorts of scandals going on, but...
I mean, really, I see a dictatorship forming here.
But we've been lied to so many times in the past by these people, and they've done so many horrible things, and they've lied us into war that's killed 3,000 U.S.
troops now, more than died on 9-11.
I mean, it's not much of a stretch from the get-go to believe that criminal elements of our government wouldn't be involved in 9-11.
No, and you simply have to ask yourself, where did all this come from?
You almost have to answer your own question now.
Well, it came from the events of 9-11.
And even if there is only a 10% chance that elements of the U.S.
government were involved in contributing to 9-11, making sure that those events worked more effectively than they might have otherwise done,
It is just appalling the conclusion you come to that elements within our own government are responsible not only for the deaths that occurred on September 11, but responsible for terribly bad policies throughout the entire
Middle East and those policies are still being pursued and all of this is going to hurt the United States of America.
Very badly, and not just a few years to come, but in decades to come.
Yeah, it's destroying our good name, our economy, but it's good for the oil companies and the arms manufacturers, and they're international.
They don't care about this country.
They're the ones signing on to the North American Union right now, trying to get rid of the country itself.
Mr. Christensen, before we go to break, I want to get your personal view, though.
Clearly, you've done the research.
You've said on air the official story is a fraud.
We know who had the motive for 9-11.
But as David Ray Griffin has said, when you then look at all the facts and lay them side by side, a very clear picture emerges of not just letting it happen or aiding it.
The evidence emerges that this was coordinated and clearly run out of the bowels of a quasi-private slash governmental black operations, black world system.
Give us your view with a...
With the preponderance of evidence, which one of, say, the four or five scenarios that Griffin uses, he says he believes it's the latter, pure inside job, what do you think with all the evidence laid in the end?
You know, I think the odds are that Griffin is right and that it is a total inside job.
I can conceive of a situation, and this is where we just need...
More evidence, but it's going to come out.
I can conceive of a situation where we, the U.S.
government, learned in advance that September 11 was going to take place.
And instead of instigating the whole thing, the U.S.
government, or elements in the U.S.
government, who are nameless at this point, took the information,
That this was going to happen and made sure by their own actions that it happened in the most effective way possible.
So greasing the skids and ordering the FBI and Army Intelligence and the CIA to back off and leave the people alone.
And ordering the Air Force somehow to not go after these planes and...
The whole business of the $3 billion, I'm sorry, the $3 trillion... Stay there, stay there.
Let's talk about it.
We've got a break.
Hard break.
Network break.
We'll be right back, sir.
Please continue when we get back.
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Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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I think?
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Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Your calls specifically for Bill Christensen are coming up.
The toll-free number to join us is 1-800-259-9231.
And if you want to learn the truth about September 11th, the Madrid bombing,
7-7 in London, you need to get my new documentary, Terror Storm, and you need to get a DVD burner and start making copies of it aggressively and getting it out to everyone you know.
You can get Terror Storm via InfoWars.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or for 15 cents a day, you can get a membership at PrisonPlanet.tv and download all 15 of my films, my weekly TV reports from here in Austin, and of course other reports we do all over the country and the world, and in-studio interviews that we do here at the radio station.
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The reason it's so important...
To spread the word about 9-11 is because when you consciously realize that cold-blooded killers are in control and have seized control, have hijacked our government, elements of our government, and are using it to domestically set up a police state, to internationally turn us into an empire and invade foreign countries, and then hand over the seized assets to multinational corporations.
When you realize that, you understand that we're trying to save lives here.
The lives of our troops,
The bodies of our troops, you know, countless others being wounded and maimed and triple and double and quad amputees.
At the same time, justice for those that have been killed.
The media loves to... I had the BBC here last week, and they're like, what about the victims' families?
They don't like what you're saying.
And I say to them, I've interviewed many of the victims' family members here.
I've interviewed the heads of the biggest groups, like Bill Doyle, of the biggest groups, 7,000 plus family members.
And he believes it's an inside job.
He said the majority of his group does.
So again, when the media tries that, come back at them with the truth.
Those dead deserve for the true individuals that helped orchestrate this to be brought to justice.
We're not safe, folks.
The same people that will carry out a terror attack will take your pension funds.
The same people that will carry out a terror attack will stage other terror attacks to expand their control.
I mean, Bush is openly talking about dictatorship.
He's openly talking about FEMA camps and the Houston Chronicle.
They're openly talking about total control.
We are literally...
Going down the road towards Hitler's Germany or the East Germans or Stalin.
And that is the norm in human history.
Freedom and liberty is a precious, precious, rare commodity.
Now I'm up here preaching.
I want to go back to our guest, Bill Christensen.
But Bill, and of course you were a former big-time analyst for the CIA heading up one of their entire research divisions.
But putting your analytical skills and your analysis skills to work here,
Not just internationally, but the domestic police state we see unfolding and the announcements by the mouthpieces on Fox News that people who criticize the government are really traitors and should be arrested.
I'm a traitor.
I should be arrested and shot.
I'm probably Al-Qaeda.
Stuff like this.
I mean, can you comment just on the overall atmosphere and what our country's turned into?
Yeah, you know, you just have to sometimes stick your neck out.
And that's what you have done and
Others have done a lot longer than I have, and I admire you for doing it, and I'm sorry I've been so slow in doing it.
The fact is, as we were talking a little bit earlier, David Griffin believes this ball is totally an inside job.
I've got to say, I think that is the most likely possibility, too.
I would say some of the people involved obviously
May have had some subsidiary motives, like the man in New York who owned Building 7 and had a lease on the other two and had a great big new insurance policy that he had bought just a little bit before what happened on September.
Seven plus billion, yeah.
Yeah, and then there at the Pentagon, $2.3 trillion somehow...
Lost, and very conveniently, all of the evidence of that seems to have been...
Have been damaged or totally ruined?
I mean, let's talk about those numbers.
It was a trillion-something when Bush got into office.
Now it's a couple more trillion.
The president argues about whether it's 2.5 or 3.5.
And now some reports, but I have AP reports saying over 2 trillion from last year, reports from five years, six years ago, Oregonian reporting on it.
And I've watched the congressional hearings.
I mean, when we're talking about trillions missing,
Again, they're not even getting in trouble for that.
Can you speak to that?
This is just an appalling amount that would be... that really ought to be unbelievable.
But you have to say there is evidence that that is indeed the case.
This is what I meant by a subsidiary motive that some of these guys must have had.
Well, you know that was breaking the week before, and there was a huge scandal, and then 9-11 took place.
It was starting to break, and I think somebody simply decided to capitalize, knowing that 9-11 was going to happen, and maybe was already being instigated by the U.S., or maybe the U.S.
just taking advantage of it.
I'm not sure on this.
I think...
Probably the total inside job is the most likely possibility, but I'm just holding my judgment on that.
And by U.S., let's be clear here, and of course you've studied this as well, compartmentalized black ops contracting out to private agencies?
Yeah, indeed.
There's obviously a whale of a lot of that going on, and that never happened in my time when I was officially working.
I'm really pretty much of an old geezer these days, but this privatization of so much of the intelligence establishment, so much of the military establishment, just opens up greater possibilities for fraud, and...
I don't see how we're saving any money by going that route, frankly.
We're not.
We're spending more money than ever.
I think that is probably correct on that.
Bill Christensen, where do you think this incredible hubris, this unbelievable arrogance comes from by these people running this system?
And do you think that that is basically their Achilles heel?
Do you think they've overplayed their hand?
Oh, I sure do.
Except that they're gambling that they're going to win.
And the next step is very likely to be an attack on Iraq, either nuclear or non-nuclear.
And we, you and I, can't sit here and say for sure.
We know they've overextended themselves.
They can't win this.
We don't, you and I, at least I, don't really have a good feel about
If we have a group of people willing to use nuclear weapons on Iran, introducing an entire new element into the situation, crossing this massive threshold of using nuclear weapons... Super Rubicon!
Super, super, super, duper Rubicon.
And neither you nor I can sit here and say...
We know for sure that the arrogant guys who are doing this are sure to lose.
You and I, at least I, can't say that.
I hope they're going to lose and I think they're going to lose and they're going to create a world of such chaos that in the end, yes, they will lose.
But the thing is, if they lose only over a long period of time
And kill thousands upon thousands of people in the process because they think shock and awe is the way to go.
All shock and awe is the U.S.
form of terrorism.
Let's face it.
Sir, let me bring up another point here.
There are some encouraging things happening.
We have a whole bunch of top generals, even former Republicans going public saying this is sheer madness.
We have large sections of the elite, even at globalist meetings like the Bilderberg Group, yelling at each other across the tables for the first time in history.
There's a major split, even in the Anglo-American power axis.
And take Cy Hersh and even the Times of London.
We have so many whistleblowers that within days...
Of Cheney having a meeting with the top Israeli brass saying, Bush wants this to be a curtain raiser for war with Iran within days.
It gets out.
So that shows that people at the highest levels are leaking right now to great danger to themselves with the NSA snooping arms aimed at them.
Can you speak to that?
I think that is another Achilles heel that there are so many people
Unnamed, who aren't going public like yourself, who were in the mechanisms, in the machinery of power that are going to blow the whistle.
Yeah, listen, it's a big weakness.
Absolutely right.
But you know what the biggest problem we face is?
It's what seems to be just plain apathy of most of the American people who have to get out there and vote.
And we have not yet
...broken through and been able to affect this apathy very much.
And I don't know if you have actually read it yet, but if you haven't, get a hold of it.
The text of the speech that Bush just gave yesterday, I mean, he is talking about widening this war right in this speech that he gave yesterday.
Well, isn't it a Ponzi scheme, sir?
Because we see this with Hitler.
He starts losing in England, losing in North Africa.
He ups the ante.
He ups the ante and turns east, taking the path of Operation Barbarossa.
Well, it's the same thing here.
In fact, their own strategy papers have leaked out, even from the RNC, who I guess now is planning war.
They have no expertise, but they're doing it, saying we need to go ahead and go into Iran, escalate things into national conscription.
They're spinning it and calling it national service, changing the name, saying it's not a draft.
I mean, absolutely.
They've got their back against the wall again.
So in the Ponzi scheme, they've got to blow it up even larger.
They've got their back against the wall, and they're already starting to blow it up larger.
And we ought to right now, today and every single day, be out there in the streets and just raising holy hell.
About this, because, you know, you can say, okay, Hitler actually had to lose once he started the invasion of the Soviet Union.
But the fact is, millions and millions of people died in the process of that, and one of the things we ought to be doing is out there trying to stop the same thing from happening.
We are going to have another world war
Very likely, if the United States and or Israel or the two of them combined start a bigger war, even if it's not nuclear, it's going to be a bigger war.
Iran, as I'm sure you know, has a population of 70 million people.
It's not like Iraq.
It's not like Syria.
And they've been building up their weapons for the last...
15, 16 years since the Iran-Iraq war ended.
They weren't bombed into Stone Age as Iraq was in 1991.
I hope people realize we literally stand at the crossroads, at the threshold of history right now, the next two months to the next year, but sooner rather than later, many analysts believe.
We are literally on the precipice.
You have a chance to stop World War III.
That's exactly what we have a chance to do, and we better work on it.
With so many analysts, the majority of analysts globally, not just in the U.S., and people inside the administration saying, back off, don't do it.
I mean, even if they just do a conventional bombardment of the 214 sites in Iran, all of the mainstream oil analysts are saying that we're going to see $6 a gallon gas for at least four or five months.
If that happens, it is the mainstream analysis that we're going to go into a violent recession that could spiral into stagflation and possible depression.
And you know as well as I do,
The oil companies of this country and the world really don't want that.
That is, all of these people who go around saying, we're doing this for oil, well, in a very indirect sense, we're doing it to get more control of the world's energy supplies.
I understand that.
Everybody understands that.
But the oil companies don't want war with Iran any more than...
You and I want it.
In fact, Baker and Bush Jr.
have even gone over and I believe this information has come out and told them, back off, but the neocons aren't.
I mean, they are... Well, I've talked to a lot of people who've worked with them, Ray McGovern and many others.
I don't know how much you've worked with them, but these people really are nutcases.
They're not backing off at all.
And we cannot sit here, you and I, and say we know that
By the way, Israel has ordered the missiles with the bunker-busting tips.
That are designed to have many nukes put in their warheads.
That is mainstream news.
And Bush has put out an open study and says they are considering the thermal nuclear bombardment of Iran.
And the Israelis have some submarines that can handle at least some types of nuclear weapons that they probably have.
Yeah, a cruise missile launch from those German subs...
What is Israel thinking?
I mean, this is crazy.
Well, look, I'm dead sure that there are people both in our own military-industrial complex and people in the smaller but still very powerful and large Israeli military-industrial complex who work closely together day after day, month after month.
This right now is joint work.
That's right.
If they start World War III, the Allied...
Defense contractors, hardware manufacturers are going to be able to steer even more of the economy through their coffers and then use the domestic police state in the name of security to then also service all those contracts.
So they enslave us, they enslave the world, and then they make the profits off of the domestic police state as well.
And eventually they lose because no empire is going to last long in this day and age in the world today
When the world is so much smaller than it used to be in terms of communications, the way you can spend money... Why do you think the government... Well, I agree.
Why do you think the government is spending more money than all presidents before it combined?
I mean, it's as if they know the economy's going to implode, the bubble's going to pop, and they're trying to get all they can now.
God knows.
As you say, in some ways, these guys are crazy.
We... I can't say this, and I know I'm repeating myself, I can't say it more than that we've got to get out there and somehow turn aside this apathy that most people in this country seem to have on this.
Well, we've had it too good too long, and decadent, fat countries always get taken over by dictators, and people always pay for their apathy.
We'll come back and take some calls for our guest, an incredible interview.
Stay with us.
Or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139.
Or watch it right now online at prisonplanet.tv.
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They railed against the crown.
Another ragtag band.
The problem is the analysts are telling the black ops squads that they're not going to get away with this.
But just like Hitler's generals told him he shouldn't go east, the neocons are in control and they're going forward.
And we have got to put our full weight against the machine to stop this.
We're going to keep our esteemed guests for five minutes into the next hour.
We'll try to get all your calls right now.
Andrew in Canada, then Rob, Robert, Josh, and others.
Go ahead, Andrew.
You're on the air with Bill Christensen, retired senior CIA analyst.
I first want to commend Mr. Christensen for coming out and having the courage to talk about this issue.
I would just like to know if he talked about this with others, and what were their response to him, and also what would he say to the CIA or NSA that are listening right now to this radio show, and also if he could talk about what would happen to the CIA that might have been involved, and if they talk about classified missions, and I'll let you guys answer.
Thank you.
Yeah, listen, I appreciate your comments.
And first thing you've got to understand is I've been retired for a lot of years.
I've been out of Washington since 1979 and don't really want to go back there either.
But all I can really say is that there is so much money now sloshing around
Throughout not only the CIA, but the intelligence components of the Defense Department, which are actually bigger than the CIA.
The CIA is quite small.
Well, in comparison with the amount of money spent, yes, it is really amazingly small, but the fact is there's so much money around that these guys can do anything.
Almost anything they want these days.
Now, this is, again, I haven't been there for a lot of years.
This is my speculation, my belief, no more than that.
Well, yeah, when you've got trillions missing, I mean, that's a lot of power.
But let me be clear on this.
We have talked to a lot of CIA people.
I interview a lot of them on separate subjects, people who have just gotten out in the last few years, and they will tell you they believe 9-11 is an inside job, but say they can't go public.
They say, well, I'm going to fight this system on other issues.
I can't go public on this because we would be discredited.
And I know, Bill, I would imagine some of the groups you've been involved in, I'm sure you've heard that.
Of course I have.
But the fact is, we have got to be willing to be discredited.
We have got to be willing to stick our necks out.
This is just plain too important.
Yeah, somebody's got to hit the barbed wire.
And I'll tell you one thing more.
The reason I'm willing right now to stick my neck out is one, I've been retired for a long time.
I got no more kids to go through college.
I got no more big expenses in my life.
I have no desire to go any higher in my status in life or be any richer than I am right now.
It's easy.
It's easy for me at my age
I think it's easier, but let's be clear here.
The path we're going down is certain wreck and ruin if we don't go public.
And I want people inside government who rationalize, who make excuses of themselves, who have seen things that deep down you know it's an inside job.
I want to ask you something.
I mean, do you really think you're safe and this culture is safe when you're part of a system that's doing this?
Really, the safe course is to fight this, isn't it, Bill?
Well, I think so.
I think that's the truth today, but it's very hard to persuade people of that.
And all you can do is try like hell to make your own mind up what you have to do to change the government in our own country.
We've got murderers in control.
They must be resisted.
Come hell or high water, we'll be right back.
One minute.
Order a copy of this show for your friends and family at GCNlive.com or call 877-300-7645.
Mainstream media.
Big Brother.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Alright, welcome ladies and gentlemen.
We are now into the third hour.
Yesterday, while I was on air, my producer walked in and handed me an article titled, 9-11 Bush Bashers.
And it said, after debating these characters extensively, I believe people need to know who they really are.
And he's Jonathan Mosley, and I think people should know who he is.
And he has the courage to come on and face us today.
He told me he appreciated my courage having him on.
Hey, a man on the right doesn't have to have courage.
He just is right, and that's the way it is.
He says in here that Professor Stephen Jones, and we've reviewed the tape.
We haven't found it.
Maybe he's watching something different we haven't seen.
And now it's been reviewed by others, and they're saying it's not there, that he supposedly called for a violent overthrow of the U.S.
There's a lot of other stuff in here that I think needs to be addressed.
Mr. Mosley, thanks for coming on with us.
Hi, how are you doing?
I am doing really good.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and your association with the publishing company that put out the Swift Captain Boat for us.
Can you tell us about that?
Well, yeah, I wrote the book proposal for Enfield for Command to get that published because it's actually owned by my brother-in-law.
One of his authors was Barbara Olson, who was killed at the Pentagon on Flight 77.
The Solicitor General's wife, yeah.
I went to her funeral with Ted Olson and his family.
It's a good move, personalizing it.
Personalize it as if it's with your argument than implying... In fact, that's how you open your article, Crafty.
It says in here that we profane the memory of the 3,000 victims.
Go ahead, you have the floor.
Tell us how we profane their memory.
Because we have a foreign enemy who has attacked us and has been attacking us since 1979 and hit the World Trade Center in 1993 and tells us they want to kill us again and again.
And instead of...
Well, I mean, let's start with that.
Well, let's start with that, sir.
You say that it's Bush bashers, and then you talk about how it's liberals.
Did you know that actually, I've looked at it, most people that believe 9-11 is an inside job are actually conservatives?
Well, most people I've talked to, I would have a hard time believing that, because the argument invariably degenerates.
Well, but see, Bush is no conservative, sir.
So, see, I mean, out of the gates you're claiming he's a conservative when by every yardstick he's not a conservative.
Well, that could be.
The issue here isn't whether it's okay to bash Bush or not.
My point is that they're certainly not looking for the truth.
The whole movement here is we want to know the truth about 9-11.
My argument is no, you don't.
Because you go from questions to conclusions without anything in between.
And because you keep changing your story.
Mr. Mosley, you can go out and find crazy people that think no planes hit the towers and then try to strawman claim them that we, quote, keep changing our story.
I haven't changed my story from before 9-11.
And I asked you yesterday, I said, have you heard of Operation Northwoods?
And you said that you had heard me talk about it, but that you didn't know about it.
Shouldn't you go find out if my claim about an official U.S.
government document to carry out 9-11 style attacks, shouldn't you go find out if that exists, or you just decide that doesn't exist?
Well, I don't believe it exists, but I think that most of the argument here is the fallacy of the possible.
You say because it could have happened, therefore it did.
No, sir, you just said you don't believe Northwoods exists, but you're not going to investigate it.
Well, I could, but how would... My good Congress, sir, it is ABC News, ABC News, Baltimore Sun, declassified in April of 2000.
Stay there, sir.
Let's go through it piece by piece.
In fact, I'm going to give you a minute, then I'll take a minute.
I've got my atomic clock right here.
I'll try to be fair.
Stay with us.
We appreciate you joining us.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
It's not about left and right, it's about right and wrong.
We wage war on corruption.
We crash through the lies and disinformation.
About to go back to our guest, Jonathan Mosley, who a lot of folks at Sniper, this won't come on, take their medicine, but he's doing it, so I gotta commend him.
He's getting in the arena.
Get ready, I'm going to open the gates on him in a minute.
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You do that by blowing the fake conservatives politically out of the water, showing how they control the liberals, how Hillary's on the payroll, Clinton's on the payroll.
You expose how they're terrorists and we can defeat them together.
We can actually get the country back instead of being pacified by these government operatives out there that pose as conservatives.
And then you've got the well-meaning folks out there.
Like Jonathan Mosley, who joins us now.
Mr. Mosley, you've got the floor.
You've written this big article, 911 Bush Bashers.
Tell us how we're all wrong.
Tell us why we're smirching, profaning, to use your language, the memory of the 3,000 dead on 9-11.
Well, one of the biggest things that upsets me about this is that the effect of this is to not guard us against a real enemy.
Now, if there are other enemies and other people we need to bring to justice, that's fine.
But we know we have an enemy out there that wants to kill us.
And the effect of this is saying, drop your guard.
It's like a boxer letting his guard down so he can get walloped again.
Now I know that from your perspective, you don't want to be blamed for what other conspiracy theorists are saying about this.
And one of the points I make is that there's a mishmash of different theories out there.
And as a consequence of that, people say, oh, there's overwhelming evidence.
But the overwhelming evidence is all contradicting each other.
From your perspective, you want to be held accountable for your beliefs, but from the perspective of the country and people listening, they're hearing it all.
I don't know how to respond to that, but we keep hearing all this craziness go back and forth, and it does keep changing when they encounter facts, they just switch to another argument.
There is only one official story, but there's hundreds of alternatives, which, of course, can't all be wrong.
But the thing is that...
There are several formats here of what happened.
What got me into this, you know, considering the memory of Barbara Olson, who I knew, is you hear these facts being asserted, and then you go back and you check on them, and the initial fact turns out to be false.
Now, I don't know, that might not be true of your arguments, but it's true of an awful lot of the stuff out there, beginning with the idea that, you know, there's a 16-foot hole in the Pentagon when the engineers measured it at 90 feet, and there's hundreds of eyewitnesses.
And this kind of thing.
So there's this structure of an assertion of fact and then a whole bunch of arguments flowing from it.
Go back and check the fact.
It turns out not to hold up.
The other thing is that what bothers me most is that people say, well, this is not plausible.
They then suggest something that's infinitely less plausible, that there are thousands of people with no motivation to keep quiet who've all kept silent, including civilian radar operators and airline personnel.
The airlines lost billions of dollars.
It's just completely implausible.
If you're going to argue from the idea that something is not plausible, I think the alternative needs to stand up to your own yardstick.
Okay, stop right there, because you said three minutes, and I want to run over what you just said briefly, and then I'll let you continue to spout that stuff.
Number one, you say people wouldn't keep quiet.
FBI agent Robert Wright got up on...
We're good to go.
I think?
We're good to go.
There were countless other FBI and other government people who were threatened with arrest if they wouldn't shut up.
When a colonel blew the whistle, they tried to charge him for $67 of unauthorized cell phone calls to his wife.
This is the type of stuff that's going on.
They threatened Sybil Edmonds with arrest.
All of this, so just don't try it.
Also, don't try to say they couldn't keep something this big secret.
They used drills to smoke screen it, compartmentalized inside these different government agencies, and they kept the Manhattan Project secret with over 100,000 employees for four years, and other facets of it secret,
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
I'm going to stop right there, and I'm just going to add that a lot of these people putting out the no planes at the Pentagon thing, I predicted stuff like this would happen.
This is a classic setup where they put out ridiculous disinfo on purpose, building straw men.
A lot of these are operatives.
So then you guys can come discredit false stories.
Go ahead.
You've got three more minutes.
Well, of course, we kept the Manhattan Project secret because the people working on it knew it was in favor of their country and were patriots.
No one watching the mass murder on television...
Remember, the World Trade Center site was owned by the firefighters for weeks.
They were looking for their buddies.
On record, they reported they found the black boxes and were ordered to shut up about it.
Oh, I'm sorry, but they found the passports.
Two of them magically didn't get... Oh, yes.
The firefighters, many of them, think there were bombs in the buildings and think it's an inside job.
The head of the biggest victim's family group says that he believes it's an inside job now and the majority of his members do.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I cut in on you.
I'm sorry.
I apologize.
All right.
But they didn't... Okay, look.
To demolish the building the way I understand it is argued, you have to have 43,000 demolition devices, 236 steel columns around the outside.
You know, some number inside.
Some people say 47.
Then you times 80 or 90 floors, because you wouldn't know which floor it is.
Well, that's not true.
It would take a few hundred devices in Tower 1, which is larger explosives, and it would take several hundred devices in Building 7 with the classic bottom-down crimp blow.
Well, of course, the news footage shows it falling from the top down.
No controlled demolition in history has ever been from the top down.
That's what I just said.
Tower 1 and 2 were blown from the top down.
You can see the squibs as they explode.
I'm saying 7 was the classic demolition.
But the technical arguments, this is where they're all inconsistent.
The technical arguments are that the falling...
Well, let's do this.
Let's say that magically passports flew out undamaged and everything else was destroyed.
No discernible remains.
Let's just say that the planes made those fall, okay?
Building 7, what are you going to fall back on?
Which one of the five stories that the government gives us are you going to give us on 7?
Well, I don't...
Something like that.
I don't think there's an official story.
There's one official story, sir.
No, there's five.
There's five and they've abandoned all five.
Have you actually read the NIST report like I have?
Have you actually read the entire 9-11 Commission report?
I've read the NIST report on World Trade Center 7.
Look, if you go back, I have the news footage that I recorded from the day of and that week.
If you look at the one tower collapsed neatly, the other tower collapsed very messy.
There are chunks coming out of that
Well, they blew it in sections.
They blew it in... The metal was cut off perfectly in two-story and one-story sections, perfectly sliced.
Then they said, no cameras, no photos.
Well, how would they do that without 43,000 separate demolition devices?
If you only...
Major companies could have wired each one of those towers in two weeks apiece.
They had major drills.
They had evacuations.
They had major floors closed down.
They had all sorts of weird people.
I've talked to the janitorial staff that were in there, just like Oklahoma City that Clinton pulled off when they caught the different guys in there with the, quote, gray sticks of butter drilling the columns.
They told them they were maintenance people.
And you would have to drill the columns because you would have to put the explosive directly against the field.
Not if they're big enough.
But, yeah, they did drill in Oklahoma City.
Jane Graham, the head of HUD, witnessed them doing it.
Okay, but then you'd need miles of wire.
No, Bill Clinton didn't do it.
He's nice.
And you'd need miles of wire, and demolition experts have looked at that and said you always have... No, you don't need miles of wire.
You can go out with a synchronized radio beacon.
Okay, but you couldn't synchronize different floors that way.
Have you ever tried to take a radio... No, you have different layers on different radio frequencies.
Have you ever tried to take a radio inside of a big steel building?
Sir, the government has all sorts of systems, and they use radio a lot on these buildings.
Okay, but steel is... You're not answering Building 7, sir.
The middle collapses.
It perfectly falls in on itself in a perfect little pile.
But that isn't what happened.
What happened was that the top...
A demolition involves blowing out the bottom floor.
There's no demolition in history.
And why would anybody try it?
It would be unprecedented.
Wait a minute.
Building 7 was the classic where you blow out the central column, then you blow out the outside columns, and it falls in on itself perfectly.
It fell at the speed of an apple.
But it fell from the top down, not from the bottom up.
Building 7 fell from the bottom, sir.
No, no.
You look at it.
The penthouse, the first thing... Well, no.
The NIST report says it fell from the bottom down.
No, the first change is the penthouse.
No, no, no, sir.
That's how you do it with a bottom down.
You blow the central column so that goes first on every Las Vegas demolition.
It's a classic one.
Okay, you're confused.
They blow the central column, it falls, then the outside columns are blown, and so it falls in on itself.
Come on.
We'll hear more from you.
You're going to be with us until 45 after, maybe longer.
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Because there's a war on for your mind.
There is.
Jonathan Mosley is our guest.
Attorney at law living in Virginia.
Professor Jim Fetzer, the founder and the head of 9-11 Scholars for Truth, has called in.
We've also got Barry Homish listening live.
And I'll try to get him on in the next segment, and maybe I'll just try to keep our guests the entire hour, because people are just going wild to hear this.
I would just add on the imploding and falling buildings, no modern steel building had ever collapsed from fire.
He claims one that did, but that was a separate, smaller, older construction.
And, I mean, you know, top scientists, the University of Edinburgh is on record, and BBC is saying one's never fallen.
They just tried to burn a building down over a month period with different experiments, and they couldn't do it.
That was on BBC last week.
And we had the Madrid fire with 100-foot white-hot flames.
The big columns didn't collapse.
How do you respond to that, Mr. Mosley?
They're not uniform, identical things.
The idea is if one falls from ordinary fire, that proves that the temperature from ordinary fire can compromise steel.
So we just got three of those in one day, not anywhere else, but three in one day, one spot.
When you talk about three in one day, that's language of randomness, which indicates that there must be a causal element.
There is.
There's a terrorist attack that affected all three, so that's not surprising.
But the thing is...
The McCormick, look, people say no building ever fell from fire alone.
I got on the Internet five minutes later, I came up with a dozen that have partially or totally collapsed.
That is not true.
Floors have collapsed, not the main central.
You can go to some old building, some 1900.
We're talking about modern steel buildings.
You know what?
I'll let you get more into that, sir.
Right now, I want to give Professor Fetzer, who you really hit the hardest in here,
A chance to ask you some questions.
Professor Fetzer, go ahead and make your statements.
Yes, many of the claims this guy made during this Internet exchange were actually corrected online.
He nevertheless went ahead and put them, even knowing better, knowing that they were false or blunders, he nevertheless included them in his article.
Now, this guy's, for example, McCormick Place was a convention center.
It wasn't a steel structure high-rise with welded and redundant features like the Twin Towers.
So he simply pretends he doesn't know the difference.
If he doesn't know the difference, he's incompetent.
If he does know the difference, he's corrupt.
He's been fanatical, even obsessive, about posting attacks on members of scholars.
I did a search, for example, Alex, on recent Mosley posts.
On the 23rd of July, he put up 19.
On the 1st of August, 22.
On the 15th of August, he posted 15 attacks.
His typical style was to post, then as soon as there was a response, he'd post again immediately.
His whole style was immature and juvenile.
If he was advancing serious arguments about our findings, they might have been justified in spite of that, but they committed elementary fallacies.
Well, stop there, Professor.
I want to give him a chance to respond.
We'll hold you over, and both of you are gracious to come on.
My concern here is that he says that Professor Jones...
Advocated the overthrow of the U.S.
We've watched the tape.
No one can find that.
Mr. Mosley, I'm confused here.
You're a smart guy.
You're a lawyer.
Where on that C-SPAN footage did Jones advocate the overthrow of the U.S.
About 80% through the tape.
There's a question.
Can our aims be satisfied without violent overthrow of the government?
Professor Jones responds,
Echoing the Declaration of Independence and ends up saying no.
It cannot be.
It cannot be.
There's been a gross misrepresentation by Mr. Mosley, but I've been in contact with Steve Jones.
We have Professor Jones.
Comments that he emailed us now up on jonesreport.com.
That's right.
This is ridiculous.
It's outrageous and even libelous that he makes these kinds of things up, Steve.
Okay, well, what did he exactly say then, Professor?
He said there is no peaceful means to achieve our goals.
That's wrong.
That's false, untrue, and completely not what he said.
He's denied it.
I was there.
He said we have to abuse constitutional means.
He specifically endorsed impeachment.
You obviously took something out of context.
Just like the no planes hit that hit, we didn't see what we saw.
It was on national television for everybody to see.
We didn't see it because it was some kind of... Who's making that claim?
You're now just picking from different sources to try to make together some kind of... He's now implying that we're saying that and we're denying that.
We're telling you, sir, that we've gone and watched the tape and your interpretation of what he said is out of left field.
Everybody can watch it for themselves.
They certainly can and discover that you're committing a libelous act.
Well, I'm a lawyer, and I would know better.
Well, you ought to know better, but you commit such elementary fallacies, I don't think you could pass it.
Well, where does this come from saying that Fetzer's attacking Jews?
Because I've never heard... Fetzer's pretty liberal.
I haven't ever heard him criticize Jews.
I didn't say that.
I said some of the others are, but I cannot... About 90% of the discussions...
Well, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Let me read back in here.
Professor Fetzer, isn't there a part?
I've got the three-page article.
Of course.
I mean, isn't there a part here where he does say that... He said I accused him of being a Jew because he was attacking our position.
Oh, yeah.
That's correct.
And that's what I said.
Well, stay there, both of you.
I mean, let's get to the bottom of this.
Because, I mean, obviously the...
The indication there is, ooh, he wanted to know if I was a Jew.
I'm just totally confused by that.
Professor Fetzer and I have been criticized for not saying it's Israel that carried out the attacks.
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We're going to go right back to Jonathan Mosley, who wrote the big World Net Daily article, getting so much attention.
9-11 bush bashers.
We've got to be fair with them.
We've got to give them some time to respond here.
But, Fetzer, you go ahead and finish up so we can do this one at a time.
Finish your points that you wanted to make.
He's playing several games, Alex.
One is that I asked him who he was.
I sent him an email and asked him about his background because he was acting in such an obsessive, compulsive fashion.
And I truly believe this had to be a child.
In fact, I would insist that this man, he may be older, but he acts like a child.
And I suggested that this person, if I had to guess, was about 15 years old, very bright, probably Jewish, possibly a resident of Brooklyn, attending a scientific technological high school.
Who believes he's superior to everyone else and has an obsession to try to prove it.
But I was commenting on his behavior, not the subject of his skills.
Second of all, here's a couple of examples of the shoddy quality of his argument.
He says the Twin Towers can't have come down as the result of controlled demolition because they blow out the first and second floors so the building falls down into its own footprint.
But I pointed out to him online before he published this article that was an equivocation
He's just talking about the standard kind of controlled demolition, as in the case of Building 7.
I pointed out then and emphasized, we're talking about a special kind of controlled demolition.
It's still a controlled demolition, just because it's from the top down.
It's not the standard kind, that's all.
But Building 7 was from the bottom down.
Yeah, Building 7 was a standard controlled demolition, just like we see in Las Vegas.
A few minutes ago he was saying that wasn't the case.
Is that what you're saying, Jonathan?
In a video show, it's definitely not the case.
What is definitely not the case?
It fell from the top down.
You're seeing a blast on the bottom cause the center pillar to fall so you see the penthouse fall.
This is clear evidence the guy is completely incompetent to discuss these issues.
All these classic demolitions we see in Las Vegas over and over again.
You have the slight indentation at the top coincidental with the blowing up of the bottom.
They blow out some beams in the center to ensure it will implode, fall toward the center.
I know, Professor Fetzer, but let him counter.
Let him have some time.
Go ahead.
But there was no blowing out of the bottom floors.
Plus, the thesis is, Professor Fetzer is a philosophy professor who cannot stay on the topic.
Thank you.
Okay, but the original thesis was, we're suspicious because it looked like a controlled demolition when it doesn't.
Well, but that's stupid because... Mr. Mosley, let me say something.
Sir, we say that because the firefighters reported bombs and explosions, and they reported squibs, and on all the videos, 7, 1, and 2, you see the blast points, sir.
No, you don't.
You see the ordinary piston effect of air being... where an entire floor being compressed down to nothing.
But they're not saying 7 was a pancake.
And pancaking wouldn't do that.
Before it's even pancaking, being blown up, you see the blast sometimes as much as two seconds before.
I videotaped it from the day I just looked at the video.
No, you don't see that.
I mean, this is the problem.
I don't know what video you're talking about, sir.
We have blasts going out in some cases ten floors below.
No, that's exactly what you don't see.
If you had a controlled demolition, you'd see floors that are completely undisturbed.
You're just, you know, I don't think you're stupid.
I think you're just trying to put doubts in people's minds, sir.
And by the way, we've proven this controlled demolition.
You can keep stating that we haven't.
I will just state this.
We have the public officials warning not to fly.
We have the PNAC boys saying they need a terror attack.
That's why you and your guys have got a big problem.
No, because you're arguing about the possible.
Because something could have happened, therefore it did.
No, no, no.
Sir, the government admits it's carried out terror attacks.
He talks about logical fallacies, Alex.
He commits a beauty in this article, and I pointed it out to him already online before I published it.
Namely, he says because different conspiracy theories are inconsistent with one another, they must all be false.
But the only inference you can follow is that they can't all be true.
One of them could be true.
That's like saying if you have a theory of the speed of light, and just because ten people are wrong about their theory, including the government's story, one of them is right.
So yeah, to say because there's an argument, every form of science and research and detectives at a cop shop, they're going to be disagreeing, but somebody's going to be right.
I pointed out to Professor Fetzer online that...
They claim to have evidence proving all of these different inconsistent theories.
And if there is evidence proving all of them... That's interpretive!
That's interpretive!
I pointed out to him that that's also a fallacy because if you only take part of the evidence, you can prove one.
You have to take into account all the relevant evidence.
He's a master at what's called special pleading and taking only part of the evidence.
He's committed another blunder.
This guy could not get through a critical thinking class that I teach to our freshmen.
Well, I hope you take that course because you can't stay on one topic.
Well, sir, can you specifically, going back to Jones, can you specifically tell us where, well, number one, you are saying here that he agreed with the overthrow of the government.
And I've watched those tapes over and over again.
I never saw that or heard that.
Can you specifically tell me what Jones said?
He was asked, is there a way to achieve our goals without a violent overthrow?
He then echoed the Declaration of Independence preamble, which is a call for revolution, by deliberately echoing the language and format, which is an argument for revolution, and then ended up saying, there is no peaceful way to achieve our means.
This is completely false and misleading.
He said we have to follow the Constitution.
Well, we're going to get the exact clip, and we're going to post it.
We're doing a big story on this, because...
You know, this goes into the psychology of people like Mr. Mosley.
But again, I can't help but appreciate him, Jim.
At least he will come on and debate us and go head-to-head with us.
But what about this?
After debating these characters extensively...
And then the first person you talk about is me, Alex Jones.
You have never talked to me, Mr. Mosley.
I don't spend my time trolling around on message boards, and frankly I wish Fetzer and others wouldn't.
It's a complete waste of time.
But I'm trying to understand here why you're implying that you debated me.
You've been included on almost all of the emails back and forth.
I don't know if you've read them or choose to participate.
Alex, that means if you put your name on a list,
If you put your name on a list, then you're included in the debate.
I didn't put your name.
I mean, Mr. Fetzer and his colleagues put your name on the list.
I didn't.
I didn't put Alex's name on the list.
You're making this stuff up.
You just make this stuff up as you go along.
Could we actually debate for a moment?
You know what?
You get a minute, then Jim gets a minute, and then I want to go to Barry Homish if he's still there to get a comment.
But go ahead.
The structure here is we have a thesis.
We have to stay on the topic.
Professor Fetzer is a master at tap dancing around and changing the topic when he gets caught.
The thesis is, structural steel fails under the temperatures of ordinary fires.
The McCormick Place was a 1960 building just like the World Trade Center.
It did not have to bear the load of 110 floors.
It was a heavy steel building.
It was the premier exhibition hall in America.
And under ordinary fire, in 30 minutes, the steel failed.
You're talking about a lightly built convention center that has an umbrella roof and is not a heavy supportive structure.
Those things are outward husk and then have a light topping cheap construction.
Everybody knows that.
I can't believe you're trying this argument, but go ahead.
Stay on the topic.
The topic is... No, I've studied that building.
You guys always use that building.
That's ridiculous.
Is the temperature of an ordinary fire sufficient to weaken and compromise structural steel?
Answer, yes.
No, it's not.
Okay, let's let Fetzer counter that.
Jim, go ahead.
That's completely false.
The melting point of structural steel is 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit.
The highest temperature a jet-based fuel fire can attain is 1,800 degrees.
There's a 1,000-degree difference.
Thank you.
Thank you.
In fact, there was a fire in 1975 in the North Tower on the 13th of February that burned much hotter and much longer.
I've got to add this.
The firefighters reported that in both towers, the fires were almost out, and to call up more ladders to save the people, and there were people standing in the holes for minutes, waiting for help, without burning or without being singed,
Begging for helicopter rescue that never came, inches away from pillars, that seconds later, as they talked on cell phones, blew up.
We've got to give him some time.
Now, go ahead.
Go ahead and finish up what you were saying, Jonathan.
The same underwriters lab in their study of World Trade Center cited McCormick Place and a dozen other steel structures that have partially or completely failed
Or the proposition in Underwriters Lab's view that structural steel does fail.
No, they told the engineers that did the study to shut up and lie, and they wouldn't do it, so they got fired.
No, the Underwriters Lab, because Mr. Fetzer... Jim, Jim!
Professor Fetzer is, again, changing the subject.
Nobody is melting steel.
The issue is, does it bend and expand so it shears bolts, breaks connectors, warps the structure?
It doesn't have to melt.
This was a welded...
Steel structure with an intricate lattice, redundant support system.
It was very sophisticated.
It cannot have suffered from a pancake kind of collapse.
I got a structural engineer on this website to correct him on McCormick Place and on the capacity of the Twin Towers to subject to pancake collapse.
He simply ignores it.
When this guy is corrected, he just goes ahead and repeats his own phony arguments, whether they commit equivocation or logical blunders or no matter what.
He has the mind of a 15-year-old, and he's obsessed to prove himself correct, no matter how wrong he may be.
That's because Professor Fetz comes back with Drek.
He talks about melting steel instead of structural collapse.
Sir, listen, the University of Edinburgh, with their top engineers, for a month, every day...
Now, I'm going to stop you.
And there are a lot of other engineers saying this.
Kevin Ryan is saying this.
Countless others are saying this.
And I don't understand how... Listen, it's been well known that buildings are safe.
Listen, listen, listen.
Edinburgh is doing these tests because they say this changes insurance, everything.
If buildings will suddenly collapse from kerosene, coal-burning fuel, black-burning smoke, low-oxygen flames, and you can run through this stuff, if this is the case, then the laws of physics have been suspended.
Go ahead.
Did they hit it with 104 tons of aircraft traveling 540 miles per hour?
If that was the case, it would have happened by the time the fires hit their peak level.
The fires had already diminished by over 90%.
Steve, he knows these arguments are phony.
He knows these arguments are phony.
I've pointed out repeatedly that Frank DiMartini, who is the construction manager on the World Trade Center, had observed that they were designed to withstand the impact of the largest then commercial airline as Boeing 707.
Two of them.
Yeah, whose impact, he said, would be analogous to sticking a pencil through mosquito netting.
Now, this guy either doesn't know any better, in which case he's incompetent, or he knows better, in which case he's corrupt.
There are no alternatives.
He's either incompetent or corrupt.
Nomuru Namasaki, the designer of the towers, went on record saying they could take multiple jumbo jet hits.
Nobody tested that, did they?
And a Boeing 707 is half the mass.
Sir, do you understand the molecular nature of aluminum when it hits giant steel columns and concrete?
It's a joke, sir.
Yeah, and do you understand the bomb effect of 30,000 kilograms of jet fuel going off in the middle, in the center of the building is a gigantic bomb.
Most of that fuel burned off in the giant fire bomb.
They've done analysis, sir, of the pounds per square inch pressure generated by that fuel detonating, and it is thousands of times too weak to even blow out the smallest columns.
That's ridiculous.
We know exactly how much C4 it takes, properly jacketed, to cut columns.
This is hard to do.
Look at Dr. Frank Greening's extensive and excellent article, which analyzes all the energy on this.
And if you have a gigantic bomb going off in the center of the building...
From 30,000 kilograms, that's 30 tons of jet fuel exploding.
You're mangling the entire interior.
Yeah, you would have had that damage, even if you believe your phony science, and then it would have broken off or slumped or bent.
It wouldn't go boom, boom, boom, and blow off in clear little easy sections.
Is Barry Homish still there?
Hold on just a second, guys.
Is Barry Homish still there, Scott?
Barry Homish is a writer written for major papers in Israel.
I believe he's here in the U.S.
I'm just going to give him a minute or so.
I don't even know what subject he's calling in on.
Then I'll let both of you gentlemen continue to the end of the hour.
Please stay with us, Fetzer and Mosley.
Barry Homish, thank you for coming on with us.
What's on your mind?
Yeah, I was helped on, actually.
Look, the business of Jews and 9-11 and all that, look, the architect of the World Trade Center is on my email list.
He's been writing me for the last four years.
Now, he always had difficulties with it, but now he's coming out and going public.
His name is Aaron Swirsky.
And what's his name?
As I said, I've been corresponding with him for years.
Barry Chalmers, I've been meaning to get you on the air, and we finally got your number.
Let me get your number again as backup, and then try to give me his email.
I'd like to interview him now.
I know we have chief engineers, the chief designer, Yamasaki.
What area of design would Aaron Swartsky be involved in?
I'm going to get you his number.
If I have to, I'll phone Israel and get it for you, and we'll see what he says.
What do you think about Jonathan Mosley saying that he doesn't believe there was any government involvement?
Well, that's ridiculous.
Look, the fact of the matter is there are ties to Israel, and one of the most disturbing is Menachem Atzmon.
During the 1980s, the Likud party had two accountants.
One was Menachem Atzmon, the other one was Ehud Olmert.
Atzmon was head of security for Logan and Newark airports.
It's not just Israel.
We had a war.
It's supposedly over.
We have a guy named Seymour Hersh claiming that the TFR, the so-called neocons, approved the war and that Israel took the air for two and a half weeks with no ground troops to see what it would be like to bomb Iraq.
And we're getting all terrible, terrible luck.
Barry, I've got to leave you there.
Let me get you on as a guest.
Great journalist.
Get his number because I know he's traveling around right now.
We'll get him on next week if he can.
For me, Scott.
Thank you, Barry.
We're going to go out of break to a final segment with both our guests.
We appreciate them both being here with us.
Jonathan Mosley, I'm going to let you take us out of this segment.
Go ahead.
Well, again, there are hundreds of alerts every year.
This is what bothers me.
People are constantly being warned that there's chatter or something like that.
The fact that some security person got it from authorities and passed it down, that's happening constantly and was always happening constantly.
But the media then tried to claim that it was just an urban legend and no one was warned.
Why didn't they just say what you just said?
Well, I don't know, but I remember hearing warnings during the summer of 2001, before anyone knew there was going to be a 9-11.
Yeah, for me, probably.
Mine should be.
Stay there, both of you.
Final segment with Jim Fetzer and our guest, Jonathan Mosley, who wrote this savage hit piece on myself.
But I think it's great.
They're going to go to my website, InfoWars.com, and they're going to find out the truth.
They're going to join us to defend this republic.
I know it's hard to believe our government did this, but it's not our government.
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They're the same ones getting rid of our borders right now.
They're the same ones giving away our ports.
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The official final DVD is out with the 66 minutes of extras, including Professor Jones and Fetzer's speeches.
I think that Mosley's last point well illustrates his incapacity to come to grips with the facts in this matter.
He said that the
The plane that actually hit the building was very different than the 707s that they were designed to accommodate.
In fact, precisely the opposite is the case.
I routinely lecture on this.
The physical property is that the mass and even the fuel capacity of these planes are very comparable.
I found at least three other engineers who agreed with Frank DiMartini that the buildings were constructed to withstand the impact of those airliners.
His point here is either deliberately deceiving us or he's utterly incompetent because he has no familiarity with the facts of the case.
Well, I mean, let's ask him.
Why are you doing this?
I think he's told us he doesn't believe the story we've put out.
I guess he believes the official story.
I know when he says that there's one official story, that is not the case.
Constantly changing its story, or maybe Jonathan's missed that.
Jonathan, your comments?
Well, the Boeing website reports the mass fully loaded is being doubled for the aircraft that hit the World Trade Center than a 707.
And the theory in the 60s was that an aircraft going around 180 miles an hour
Lost from the airport might hit it.
Philosophy professor Fitzer apparently doesn't know that the kinetic energy increases with the square of speed.
Well, listen, you're a lawyer.
He's a professor.
We all have rights to have our views and study, but you keep implying by saying he's a philosophy professor that we don't have a bunch of scientists trained in engineering and physics that have come to the same conclusion.
He appears not even to know that my PhD is in the history of science and the philosophy of science.
The history of science is dominated by physics.
He doesn't understand I publish 27 books on technical subjects.
This is what Kevin Ryan said, and we'll get to the bottom of it.
He's emailed WorldNet daily and has said of the numerous false statements made in the article by John Mosley that he recently published, at least one should remain and result in legal action.
Anyone who actually listened to the C-SPAN broadcast and 9-11 Scholars Group can clearly hear that Mosley's quote of Stephen Jones is inaccurate to say the least.
Dr. Jones did not say that there is no peaceful way to achieve the group's goals, and Dr. Jones has not promoted violence in any of his presentations.
A correction of this libelous error might be wise choice.
Thanks, Kevin Ryan, UL Laboratories former underwriter engineer.
You want to comment to his email he's put out?
Millions of people saw it.
I think this guy ought to be reported to the Board of Ethics in his domain.
This is completely unethical and corrupt behavior.
Well, Mr. Professor Fetzer repeatedly says that the weight of one floor is not enough to bring down subsequent floors.
No, in full note, well, the 29 floors, the 35... Mosley, you're jumping around.
We're talking about Steve Jones and your libel of him.
I was there, buddy.
He didn't say what you claimed.
We're talking about why the University of Minnesota should fire you, Mr. Professor Fetzer, because you're specifically lying.
They made me a distinguished McKnight University professor.
You better check it out, Mosley.
We're out of time.
We are out of time, ladies and gentlemen.
Professor Fetzer, thank you for coming on.
My pleasure, Alex.
Jonathan Mosley, will we see more articles from you?
Well, I didn't get to debate or say much here.
I guess you might, especially on Thermite.
Oh, you've got probably 20 minutes to talk.
It's not fair you've gotten to say plenty.
Well, listen, you can come back on.
We'll set you back up next week.
God bless, folks.
Order a copy of this show for your friends and family at GCNlive.com or call 877-300-7645.
Big Brother
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Author, researcher, professor.
He's going to be joining us coming up in the next segment.
Peter Dale Scott, 9-11.
Written new book with David Ray Griffin.
Right now, I got so upset in the last segment talking about CBS News and New York Post admitting that thousands are already dead, hundreds dying every few months.
They're testing their lungs.
It's full of asbestos and mercury.
The feds even block funding and disability payments to the police and firemen.
I know I'm bad because I want the police and firemen to be taken care of.
I understand.
And you guys would machine gun my head in a second if the murderers that attacked us on 9-11 told you to.
I just can't understand it.
It's like some black slave licking the boots of their master.
You know, there was reports of the house slaves would go out and beat the other blacks out in the field.
You cops are the same way.
You make me sick.
I mean, there's no other way to even try to
I'm about to go completely ape.
I'm not going to blow up, folks.
I don't have the energy to do it these days.
Going back to John Roberts and Matt Dayton.
They're going to have protests down on UT campus this weekend.
And on Monday, excuse me.
And tell us those times again, gentlemen.
And then tell us your number or contact info for folks that want to help you flyer this weekend.
I guess there's something to it.
There's a UT game.
Go tailgate and get drunk.
And just wait for the government to blow up a Chicago with a nuke, and then you can have your kids drafted and they can come back in body bags.
Don't go help these young men.
Go suck your thumbs at a UT football game, okay?
Don't be in a real war.
Go to a simulated war.
Go to a gladiatorial mind control operation.
I know I'm bad because I'm telling you to go to a protest.
I'm telling you to fly her this weekend instead of sucking your thumbs as the ship goes down.
All right, John Roberts, Matt Dayton, fighting hard on the front lines.
How do folks get in contact with you now and help you flyer?
Well, I guess, first of all, my phone number is 210-875-0614.
Say it again slowly.
You want to give out the other number, too?
Sure, go right ahead, Matt.
Okay, yeah, my number is 210-273-5170.
I'll say it again.
It's 210-273-5170.
And I'll say the times again for the protests are at 12 p.m.
on the West Mall, which is right next to the main tower at UT.
to 2 p.m.
Monday, yes, September 11th.
And then the second protest will be at 6 p.m.
to 7 p.m., also at the main tower, followed by a screening at 7.30 of 9-11 Press for Truth in Berdine 216.
All right.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Thank you, Alex.
Thank you very much.
Anyone who wants to help, anyone in Austin, please come join us.
We need all the help we can get.
And we need to just continue.
I would hope that once you get your mass of people, you'd march to the Capitol.
Have you thought about doing that?
Well, potentially, yeah.
If we get enough people for the first protest, yeah, that's a very good idea.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, you better get enough people.
People better get out there and help you fire.
That would be absolutely great.
Yeah, we've done a lot, just the two of us, but we've gotten a pretty good following as far as our group, and we've had a lot of help from people, but we still...
Any more help is great.
We need people to get copies of your flyers.
They need to go make copies.
It's not even an organization.
It's just attacking the enemy.
Take care.
You too.
Thank you for having us on.
You bet.
Thank you for coming on.
I told those poor guys to come down to the studio today.
I was going to have them in the studio.
So much bad stuff happened.
Professor Jones getting put on administrative leave.
Powerful broadcast lined up.
Stay with us.
It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
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Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
The Salt Lake City newspaper, TV station, others are reporting that Professor Stephen
Jones, last night, and I talked to him just about 30 minutes ago during a break, has been put on administrative paid leave.
He's still able to conduct research but can't teach his classes.
This is a political pressure.
Later in the hour, I'm going to give out the number to the dean and the number to the chancellor at BYU.
This is outrageous of a highly respected, tenured professor who has had his findings of controlled demolition peer-reviewed.
Even missed the...
The federal body that studies this is given five different reasons the towers collapsed.
Now they're backing off saying they don't know why and bombs could have been in the buildings.
So they're running scared.
Kevin Ryan of Underwriting Laboratories, of course, did an internal test of the towers falling and said the official story was basically impossible.
He was told not to publish his findings even though he was doing that job for the company.
They canned him.
He was going to be popping in.
Kevin Ryan at the end of this hour to comment on what's happening.
And just so much more is going on.
So a man who knows a lot about academic freedom is Peter Dale Scott, but he's here to also talk about his new book on 9-11.
Mr. Scott, thank you for coming on with us.
This is really sad to see this happening.
These Nazis are really attempting to silence one of the key bastions of free speech that's left in this country.
I guess the colleges will be free speech zones now, huh?
Or won't be allowed to on the colleges.
Well, it's a very distressing situation.
I think it's harder for, you know, people in the sciences and engineering and so on where his colleagues get government contracts and so on.
I think some of the pressures come from his peers who are frightened they won't get government business contracts.
Well, we've got legislatures in New Hampshire and in Wisconsin, as well as federally in D.C., openly calling for cutting massive funding to universities that even allow the mention of an alternative story on 9-11.
Yes, and I think that, you know, some places it's more... I feel fairly secure in California, but, you know, we have this book that's just come out, edited by David Ray Griffin and myself,
9-11 and American Empire intellectuals speak out.
Well, one of the items in there is Morgan Reynolds talking about the pressure that is being put on.
He's a professor.
He's also interesting because he's a Republican who, you know, was a hero for the Reagan people at one time.
But he's been put under great pressure at Texas A&M, and he talks about that in his chapter.
And Kevin Ryan, who you just mentioned, his story, he has a chapter in our book as well.
And also Mr. Barrett is under heat.
They're calling to fire him.
At the same time, we have the former father of, well, the father of Reaganomics, Dr. Morgan Reynolds, has gone public as well.
And Stephen Jones' article, which has caused all the fuss, is a chapter in our book.
Although he also had it on a website, and...
It's still going to be available, but it was on the BYU website, Brigham Young University, where he teaches.
Have they pulled that?
Well, they've told him to move it.
I think there will be a hot link where it was.
That's still being negotiated.
But yes, it's going off the BYU website.
He sounded devastated when I talked to him 30 minutes ago.
Well, this is the man's career, you know, and I understand that they don't have tenure at BYU the way they do in most universities.
So he has definitely risked his whole future, and this is a man who's doing serious research.
His other research is also controversial, but it's real.
He's working very hard at it.
Well, and he and his wife are just lovely, soft-spoken, kind-hearted people I've had a chance to meet and speak with and eat dinner with.
Well, there is a lot of wild stuff going around.
He's a very decent man, and he's...
He's tried to be very flexible with the university.
We were concerned in the book because his chapter makes much better reading if you can actually see the videos and things that he refers to.
And if you go to his article on the web, then it's all hot-linked, so you can actually see World Trade Center going down and
You just see how unlikely it was that it was destroyed either by fire or by debris hitting it on one side.
Because you can see it going straight vertically down at almost three-fold time.
You know, Peter Dale Scott, let's start off here with who you are and the work you've done and some of the research you've done.
First off, tell us about Peter Dale Scott.
Well, I was for many years a professor at the University of California.
I had been a Canadian diplomat before that and I knew just enough about the situation in French Indochina to be very concerned that America should not make the mistake that France did.
I started as early as 1963 saying this would tear America apart if it got involved and eventually I started speaking
I didn't want to be a speaker because I'm a Canadian and I felt Americans should speak out about the war.
But you know, back in 1963, a lot of Americans didn't know where Vietnam was.
It was a strange word to them.
So I started speaking and I started writing and my first book about Vietnam raised a question about the timing of the death of President Kennedy just at a time when he was
beginning to talk about getting troops out of Vietnam by the end of 65.
So that got me into writing about the Kennedy assassination, and my main book on that, The Politics and the Death of JFK, is still in print after, what is it now, 13 years.
And so I have been very open, my eyes have been open to the possibility of
Or the frequency with which the American government has lied to its own people.
Well, let me bring this up before we get into 9-11.
Within weeks, right at about three and a half weeks, Christina Todd Whitman and the EPA reported massive poisons, massive toxins, asbestos, mercury in the air.
Then Bush had that removed.
They said it was a mistake.
Well, it's certainly not the first time this sort of thing has happened.
I mean, I think the use of depleted uranium, DU,
In weaponry, in both the first Iraq War and the current Iraq War, it's a terrible scandal.
And, you know, you had a huge number of returning veterans from the first Gulf War, and the Navy refused to deal with them.
I've talked to the brother of one of these people, and the Navy lost his medical records.
Finally, they put him on 100% disability, but it took about eight years for that to happen.
And the DU is still being used in Afghanistan and in Iraq today, and also on the web you can see the babies being born with terrible deformities in the Iraq hospitals.
This is not recognized in any degree at all.
If you look up depleted uranium on Google, you'll get an awful lot of hits, but you won't get any from the U.S.
What does this say about the mindset of the individuals that are willing to use weapons like this and then just tell the troops it's not bad for them?
I think there's a terrible separation in this country and it tends to happen as countries become powerful and turn from republics into empires that you get a greater and greater separation
Between public opinion and the thinking that's going on in areas where there is no public review of the programs at all.
Well, you're right.
On issue after issue, you'll have 75, 85, 99 percent of people against North American Union, against the Kelo, New London, Connecticut ruling on property.
And now government suddenly, because I didn't see this in the past,
Just says, we don't care, we're going to do it.
And it does show an imperial hubris that I think should terrify anyone who wants to live in a free country.
Well, I'm in a special situation here because I'm a Canadian and I came by choice to this country in 1961.
And I came because I respected America as an example for the rest of the world.
Let's not forget some of the achievements of this country.
I think the Civil Rights Movement, the
You know, all over the world, racial relations can be difficult, but America has worked through its race relations to an extent in which in Europe, for example, they're just beginning to deal with the resentments of the Muslims living in France or England, for example.
I think they're behind America in that respect.
But what distresses me is the change that I've seen in America.
You know, I came to the University of California.
It was a free university.
Now you pay $20,000 a year or something to go.
It's become a class privilege, whereas it used to be for everybody.
The standard of living for a great many Americans is going down at the same time that the remuneration for the top 0.01%
Yeah, it's a sign of a country going into centralization.
I want to get into your bottom line on 9-11.
And I want to... You've had a lot of good projections and predictions.
What you see happening with Iran, what you see happening with this fifth anniversary of 9-11, where you see the Bush administration, what you think their next move is going to be.
A great political mind, a great patriot for freedom, Peter Dale Scott is our guest.
I'm Alex Jones.
The websites are Infowars.com, JonesReport.com, and Infowars.net.
We're good to go.
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The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.
Because there's a war on for your mind.
The new book's out.
A compilation of some of the best minds out there today.
Exposing 9-11.
The book's 9-11, An American Empire, Intellectual Speak Out.
Edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter L. Scott.
Going back to our guest.
This is a short segment.
We'll have a long segment coming up.
Plenty of time to...
I think we're good to go.
How do you see this developing, and then what are some solutions or ways we can keep bad possibilities from happening?
Well, I think Iran should be very much on our minds, because I'm doing another book that will be out next year called The Road to 9-11, and I have a whole chapter dedicated to this group, the Project for a New American Century Project,
These are a group of neocons who wanted very much for America to play a much bigger role in Central Asia.
Well, they've got their wish in the form of Iraq, and I hope they're happy.
There are two big camps now, I think, in Washington.
There is the neocon camp who have wanted an attack on Iran from the very beginning, and also Syria, for that matter.
This goes back, two of them were calling for this back in the Clinton era, back as early as 1996.
But I think they would like to destroy OPEC and see oil completely controlled by the United States and to be sold cheaply, break the OPEC cartel.
But there's also the oil companies in Washington, and whereas they agreed with the PNAC people, the neocons, on the importance of getting into Iraq because they want America to have a secure base where it can control oil,
Where the oil goes to throughout the world, and Saudi Arabia is no longer that base.
Everybody agrees on that.
Yeah, Iraq is the real crossroads.
Yes, but the oil companies are not interested in destroying OPEC, because OPEC keeps prices high, and that, of course, means record profits for the oil companies.
Some of the neocons have left the government.
Wolfowitz is now at the World Bank.
Dick Cheney's there.
We've got Rumsfeld there.
We've got...
Oh, yes.
They're still there.
And Cheney, I think, is the most important one of them all.
We've never had in the history of the United States a situation where the office of the vice president seemed to be more powerful in determining policy than the National Security Council of the presidency.
Well, Bush takes two-and-a-half-hour naps and exercises upwards of three hours a day.
I mean, he doesn't even read his notes.
He just goes out and bumbles around.
We know Bush is running absolutely nothing.
Well, just to come back to Iran, I have a piece about this on my website that I put up three years ago.
My website is www.peterdalescott.net.
We have a big link to that on infowars.com, by the way.
Good, thank you.
Well, anyway, I said that this was just before the invasion of Iraq, and I said it would happen because
America, it's not that we need the oil from Iraq for ourselves.
Most of it goes to Europe.
But we need to control oil, and we also were very concerned in those days to preserve the dollar by making sure that
OPEC countries didn't start taking euros for oil instead of dollars.
That's what makes countries all over the world... Yeah, the real world reserve currency is the oil, and the dollar is the currency for buying barrels of oil, and our listeners are versed on that.
And Saddam was challenging that.
He was starting to accept euros, and in the beginning of this year,
Iran said that they would create an oil booth, and that they too would, because they sell to Europe, so their position is Europe should pay... Why does Iran seem to be trying to goad the military-industrial complex into striking them?
Ahmadinejad's statements?
Well, I think that they may feel that they're better... It's so complicated, because, you know, Iran actually helped America in Afghanistan.
And just at the beginning of the Iraq invasion, there was the senior Shia cleric in Iraq.
Let's get into the deep politics, Mr. Scott, when we get back.
Give us your analysis.
We're honored to have it.
We've got a break.
We're on the march.
The empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
Alright, I was out of the studio during the break and forgot to bring the phone numbers in here.
Will you guys please bring me the phone numbers so we can give those out in a few minutes to the BYU University President's phone number.
I'm also going to give you an email address.
We need to call them, be polite, but tell them this is outrageous.
We need more academic freedom in this country, not less.
The Neocons have been calling for firing professors for the last year.
They haven't gotten their wish.
They haven't fired Jones yet.
They've got him on administrative paid leave.
And so we're going to give you the phone number for Cecil O. Samuelson, the president of Brigham Young University.
We'll give you his information.
Kevin Ryan joins us here in about ten minutes.
One of the engineers at Underwriting Laboratories.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
What is going on with Iran?
We know they made deals with Reagan for weapons to go ahead and hold the hostages and not release them.
We know they made all sorts of weird deals in Iran-Contra.
We know that they did help attack the Serbs, fund the Albanians to attack the Serbs as a pretext for the U.S.
and NATO and the U.N.
to go in there in the late 90s.
That's in Senate reports.
That's admitted.
So, yeah, from your analysis, you're a former diplomat.
You've studied these black ops systems.
What's really going on in Iran?
You said it's a complex situation.
Give us your take, sir.
I agree with you.
Well, this is absolutely central to understanding 9-11, which is that the American government, the CIA, have been using Muslim fundamentalists for 30 years.
Going back in time, when they thought the big danger was that the Soviet Union would move into Asia, they backed the fundamentalists against them.
When Mossadegh in Iran in 1953 was threatening to, well, it's threatening he did it.
He would nationalize the Anglo-Iranian oil company.
The CIA and British intelligence worked with, actually, I think the people around Ayatollah Khomeini, they worked with them then to get rid of a democratic, progressive socialist.
It wasn't even socialist.
It was nationalizing one foreign firm.
To get rid of Mossadegh.
It's just one example of collaboration coming down into the 90s with Al-Qaeda elements in Azerbaijan where American oil companies were moving in.
The British were working with them in Libya because they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi.
All these secular leaders were being attacked from the right by Al-Qaeda elements, and that was with the approval of the CIA.
So, in the case of Iran, it's true.
You had the Republicans in 1980.
They wanted to defeat Carter, so they...
We're meeting with Iranian fundamentalists in Paris to delay the return of the hostages.
It meant that these American hostages in the Iranian embassy stayed on months longer because of the deal between fundamentalists and the Republicans to elect Ronald Reagan.
Yes, sir.
I had my wireless headset on.
I'm here.
I wasn't given some material.
I stepped away.
Go ahead.
I was listening to you.
I was frightened.
I apologize.
I just got to get stuff done.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
So, you have a situation where the Americans... I'm sure, for example, that the CIA had people inside Al-Qaeda.
They admit they had one al-Qaeda, but...
He defected, and then there was this man, Ali Mohammed, that I write about in my chapter in 9-11 and the American Empire.
He was very high up in Al-Qaeda.
He actually did but took the photographs of the American embassy in Kenya and gave them personally to bin Laden.
But he was only able to do that because he had been picked up a few weeks earlier in Canada by the RCMP because they mistrusted him because of his connections to some terrorists in Canada.
And this man, Ali Mohamed, gave them a number to phone in Washington in the FBI headquarters to an FBI agent called Zenta.
And the FBI told the Canadians to release him, which they did.
Well, it's the same thing with U.S.
Embassy chiefs.
They'd have known Al-Qaeda members going to summits, coming back into the U.S., trying to get visas overseas.
And they'd say, you're a terrorist.
And they'd get a call from the higher up at the State Department saying, let them in.
This terror designation is a cover for anti-terror training.
Well, there was one embassy in particular, Saudi Arabia, with two consulates, and virtually all of these hijackers and their bosses, the higher-level people like the blind sheikh Abdul Rahman, they came into America on special visas that were issued by this office, whereas they should have been, and some of them actually were,
On the terrorist of people not to be given visas.
And then back, of course, in 93, the FBI cooked the bomb, trained the driver, gave him the detonators, let it all go forward, found a couple of low-grade morons to do it.
I mean, it's the same story over and over again.
They had been observing those people for three years before then, and when one of them killed Meyer Kahan and was picked up, and this was the Muslim whose home was raided,
And it was filled with terror training manuals that Ali Mohammed himself, who was doubling as a trainer for the Special Forces at Fort Bragg, this man, his name was Noser, his home was full of these manuals
And the FBI came out and said there was nothing found in his home of any interest.
Now, let's be clear, though.
I want to bring something else into this, and I want to give a number out in a moment to call BYU to support Professor Stephen Jones, who is being reviewed right now and has been basically suspended and put on leave.
This is a horrible attack on free speech and scientific research in this country, but that's why George Bush Sr.
brought 3,000 Iraqis in.
Clinton brought in another 2,000.
These are Republican Guard...
We're good to go.
I think?
I tell you, it is so sick, and we are in so much danger.
Peter Dale Scott, do you have any comments on the 5,000 Iraqis?
I'm an agnostic on that, and I should say, in general, my position on 9-11, some people are very sure they know what happened.
My position is I'm very sure there's been a massive cover-up, and that the cover-up extends to things that happened in the White House on that day,
And that we need to know more clearly what happened, why it is that the phone records are suddenly, there's like an 18-minute gap, just like Watergate when it comes to the crucial phone calls that authorize the shoot-down of planes.
And then more and more importantly, something that a lot of Americans are not aware of, this thing called COG.
Which is supposed to be continuity of government, but which is actually a kind of suspension of the Constitution.
So shadow government.
It went into full effect that day.
It was invoked on September the 11th, and most people are unaware of this.
And we've really been operating under it ever since with Homeland Security, NORTHCOM being activated, which makes us a military jurisdiction.
That's what I write about in my own book, yes.
That's what you write about.
Well, excellent.
Before we go any further, let me just give out the phone number.
To the president of Brigham Young University.
Call the secretary.
Be nice to her.
It's not her fault.
But write down your name or information or your comments.
Make sure that notes be given.
To him.
And that the people of the United States support Professor Stephen Jones, who's been put on leave, basically suspended for now, and they're looking at him.
And all this started with fake hit pieces.
Remind them of this in World Net Daily, claiming that he had said things he didn't say.
Here is the number.
Again, that's 801...
801-422-7... Excuse me.
422-2521, the president of Brigham Young University.
And you can also email your support to Stephen Jones at physics underscore...
Office at byu.edu.
Again, that's physics underscore office at byu.edu or the number 801-422-2521.
And guys, go ahead and call Kevin Ryan now.
I want to go ahead and get him up.
Can I just say something else?
Yes, sir, please.
If people want to know what Stephen Jones did that's so terrible to have caused this hullabaloo and to get him suspended...
It's the article which is in our book and which is, I think, the sanest, most reasonable chapter that's been written by anybody on why it is that the towers fell and particularly World Trade Center No.
7, the building that was not hit by an airplane but also collapsed.
He did a public service by assembling the scientific evidence for what really happened here
And because of doing this public service, he may be losing his job.
One of the other individuals who contributed material to the new book that you guys have put out is Kevin Ryan.
He's a former site manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriter Laboratories, the major underwriting firm in the United States and North America.
And he put out just a letter to them.
Well, here he is in a nutshell to tell us what happened to him and then to go through his take on what's happening to Professor Stephen Jones right now.
Kevin Ryan, it's great to have you on the air with us and it's great to have Mr. Scott on at the same time.
Just please, in a nutshell, tell us about yourself, your story, and then give us your take on Stephen Jones.
Yeah, hi, Alex.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes, I can, sir.
OK, great.
Yeah, I was previously the top manager at one of UL's divisions.
And I was the manager of the water testing division.
And the reason I got involved in all of this is because I was given information, both verbally and in writing, from UL's top managers that UL had been involved in testing the steel used to build the World Trade Center buildings.
So having this information, I was interested in the progress of the NIST investigation, of which UL played a part.
And I followed it pretty closely.
Mainly, I was busy with my own job as well.
But in 2003, it was clear that our government was lying to us about a number of things that could be seen as worse crimes than the crimes of 9-11 themselves.
And seeing this and learning more about the events of 9-11, like the destruction of the steel evidence, I was interested in hearing more from our chief executive officer who had made the first claim that we had tested the steel used to build the World Trade Center building.
So I started asking questions about it.
I sent him formal written questions about
I really felt it was UL's responsibility as the public safety guardian.
And just boiling it down, what was their public statements versus what their real testing showed?
Yeah, well, there's two parts to that.
There's 40 years ago where they tested the steel components used to build the buildings originally.
And then there's August of 2004 where they did floor model testing.
They claimed, and I believe they never did test the floor assemblies 40 years ago.
But they did test the steel components, the columns and so forth, that were used to build the buildings.
So what they said is that they tested the steel.
So then they continued in the investigation.
And the investigation showed that the floors wouldn't collapse.
And they showed that the temperatures in the buildings were nowhere near
Hot enough to soften or weaken any of the steel.
And so having all this information and having asked numerous times of managers at UL without getting any satisfactory answers, I went ahead and wrote the NIST scientists.
And that's what got me fired.
I wrote a letter.
I thought it was respectful and professional.
And I just came right out and asked them, look, your test results show.
That the steel's not going to soften or even significantly weaken, you know.
That's just not going to happen at the temperatures you've provided.
And that letter is, of course, on the web.
They responded, of course, by firing you.
Now, how does this tie in?
I mean, you've experienced this.
Now what's happening to Professor Jones?
Well, it's interesting.
Hopefully it's not going to be the same outcome.
But, you know, Stephen Jones is a really good man focusing on seeking the truth.
So, you know, he's...
Just because you have a PhD doesn't mean you seek the truth, above all else.
But in Steve Jones's case, we certainly have a person like that.
And he's being reviewed.
I would say that BYU has withstood the pressure for quite some time.
Some of the universities that have experienced this have jumped immediately to reviewing the professors involved.
And so to commend BYU, they have at least hung in there for some time.
You can imagine they're under a lot of political pressure.
I'm sure Underwriters Laboratories was as well when my letter came out.
I'd like to get a response now to what you've been saying from Peter Del Scott.
Yeah, well, I think that Kevin Ryan just put his finger on it.
You know...
Obviously, UL is a business, but universities also are in business.
They live on government contracts.
The biggest universities are biggest because they get an enormous part of their funding from government contracts.
It's the old Eisenhower speech about military-industrial complex undue influence.
You know, a lot of people think, well, the academy is safe from all that sort of thing, but it's not.
And we've just seen an example of it at BYU, and probably the people who are doing it may feel that they're not in a position of freedom because they have to protect the university and so on.
Kevin Ryan, I wonder... I just want to say one more thing.
Stephen Jones has been so reasonable.
He was saying he would take it off his...
All right, both of you, please stay there.
We've got Kevin Ryan on the line with us and Peter Del Scott.
The one-year anniversary is Monday.
Bush will be up there playing the hero, playing the savior.
And we'll be there making sure the media is forced to report on the truth.
Stay with us.
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We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
Kevin Ryan, formerly of Underwriting Laboratories, and of course Peter Del Scott, former diplomat and professor and best-selling author.
They'll both join us right now today, and we're going to be talking about 9-11.
We are talking about 9-11, but there's this move nationwide, and congressmen and senators have openly called for cutting off funding.
To universities that allow their professors to have academic freedom.
This is a very dangerous, chilling effect.
This is not what you're supposed to see in a free society, but it goes part and parcel with the free speech zones.
It's all part of this larger picture.
Going back briefly to Kevin Ryan, and we're going to let him go.
I know he's a very busy man, and we'll give him some time in the future for a full hour.
Kevin Ryan, can you just, again, in kind of a synopsis, thumbnail sketch,
For people that don't know, describe what happened.
You said, listen, you guys did your own internal studies and showed the towers shouldn't have fallen.
You did the test before and after.
Please go public.
Meanwhile, they were telling the public something completely different.
Who was putting, or did you ever find out who was putting the pressure on them not to release those reports?
That's a good question.
I've always wondered, was NIST, was the Bush administration involved in my termination?
I can't prove that, but I wouldn't doubt it.
And you're exactly right.
My letter included not only things that had been largely reported publicly, other than UL's involvement in testing the steel components, all of it had been reported publicly.
But now all of it is quite well known.
So at the time, it was considered outrageous, right?
This was only two years ago, almost.
And the thing is,
UL turned around right away and said there's no evidence that anyone tested the steel.
They didn't say they didn't test the steel.
They said there's no evidence that they didn't test the steel.
Now, this shouldn't be a secret, right?
I think we can all agree that if Underwriters Laboratories is a tax-exempt organization working for all of us, supposedly for safety purposes, then they shouldn't be holding secrets back from us on work they've done, especially when it's so important.
This is very important.
I think we can all agree.
Well, that's a question I've got for both of you.
First, Peter Del Scott, where is this going to go if we see an explosion of 9-11 truth, the people now realizing there's a cover-up, and basic laws of science have been suspended by the Bush administration and both 9-11 whitewash commissions?
Peter Del Scott, what do you see happening in the future?
I mean, I see hit pieces, probably 30 or 40 of them a day against 9-11 truth in the media, but that doesn't seem to be working.
What are they going to do?
Well, first of all, it attests to, as Kevin just said, the importance of this matter.
I mean, if it's important enough to suspend Kevin Jones, it's important enough to fire Kevin Ryan, it's because they're very scared, and it's ultimately the people that will determine who comes out on top in this.
If the American people get involved in this matter and do a little basic research for themselves, it
Anyone with a computer can go to Google and become more knowledgeable about 9-11 than the poor members of the 9-11 Commission were, who were not able to look at the truth.
It's a very important matter, and I think that...
Particularly if we get a change in the House in November, it could lead to the impeachment of Vice President Cheney.
Yeah, but the question is, what will they do to stop this?
What will they do to block us taking our country back?
Kevin Ryan?
I don't think they can do much at this point.
Frankly, Alex, I think that the people are waking up, and I think that's why we're seeing all this activity here late tonight.
In a year, I know there's a big anniversary coming up, but frankly, what I see is that they seem to be very worried.
Now, I haven't even talked about this latest fake Bin Laden video.
The other fat Bin Laden video has been proven a fake.
They've proven that the new things they've released have been recuts.
Let me do five more minutes with both you gentlemen after this 60-second break, or 70 seconds to be precise.
And I've got a few final questions for you.
Then we're going to have Bob Dacey in the studio, and we're going to talk about 9-11.
Copies of the preceding broadcast are available at GCNlive.com or call toll-free 877-376-45.