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Filename: 20050620_Mon_Alex.mp3
Air Date: June 20, 2005
2096 lines.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Welcome, my friends, to this live Monday edition of the Alex Jones Broadcast.
It is the 20th day of June 2005.
We're going to be live for the next three hours.
Professor David Ray Griffin, expert on the 9-11 inside job, best-selling author, will be joining us coming up in the third hour to discuss...
Well, all the latest propaganda involved with the 9-11 cover-up that is unraveling at the seams, busting holes in their fraud at record levels.
And the famous MI5 agent who blew the whistle...
On, well, government bombings in England, where they would carry out bombings, the evidence shows, to blame it on their political enemies.
Whistleblower David Shaler will be joining us coming up in the second hour.
And, folks, he hasn't been doing a lot of interviews.
In fact, really any that we can find since he got out of prison for six months.
Not for doing anything wrong.
They admit that what he said was true about the government.
It's just that he's not supposed to violate his secrecy orders and tell the public when the British government is engaging in criminal activities.
And he's also going to talk about 9-11 with us today.
He's going to get into how the British government will plant fake news stories to then discredit people that are exposing them.
They do this over and over again, very similar to Karl Rove putting out fake documents in the midst of a scandal.
Everything about the scandal is true, but the particular document will be a fake.
The media will pick up on the fake, ignoring all the other real documents, and then disprove the fake, thus discrediting the whole lot.
They do this over and over again.
That's why I've been very suspicious, I've said this for the last two weeks, of the Downing Street Memo.
Last Thursday night on Coast to Coast AM, George Norrie asked me what I thought of the Downing Street memo, and I said it was extremely suspect.
That was at the start of the special fifth hour that he did.
He said, what do you think of this?
And I said, well, we know from other documents and their own admissions that they lied about WMDs.
But notice the media doesn't focus in on, say, the Niger uranium yellow cake documents.
No, that gets ignored, but they're focusing on these Downing Street, now seven memos.
One or two of them will probably be fake, and now it looks like that may be the case.
Again, it's simple.
What they focus on is generally the fake thing they've planted.
They call this a honeypot.
It's really easy to figure out what they're up to once you know their game, but...
Now if you say there's memos that Bush had prior knowledge, or that Bush lied, or that Bush made stuff up, they'll go, no, no, no, that's a fake.
You can go, well, I have the document written by Dick Cheney.
Well, let's just ignore that.
The Army is going to be patrolling the streets in England to stop hooligans.
There's martial law everywhere for absolutely no reason.
Headline, now happy hour ends with martial law.
I heard Rush Limbaugh rebroadcast yesterday talking about how wonderful Gitmo is and how it's a vacation spot.
And now he's selling T-shirts, advertising it as a wonderful place.
So Paul Watson and I got together and wrote a detailed article about it.
It's on prisonplanet.com, and I appreciate Paul putting in the lion's share of that work.
It's an excellent little six-page piece of debunking that really exposes what we're dealing with.
I'll be covering that.
Asian stocks slipped on record oil price rise, now right at $60 on the barrel.
That's just some of what's coming up.
There's just so much, so much coming up.
Believe me, you do not want to miss it.
On the other side of this quick break, I'm Alex Jones, your host.
Please stay with us.
What really happened September 11th, and who stands to gain?
Alex Jones here, America.
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Hello folks, Alex Jones here.
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Big Brother.
Mainstream Media.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, second segment, 8 minutes, 40 seconds into this first hour.
We do have former MI5 agent who blew the whistle on government-sponsored terrorism coming on in the second hour, David Shaler.
Then in the third hour, Professor David Ray Griffin will also be joining us to talk about the latest developments concerning 9-11 and the ongoing establishment desperate cover-up that is going on.
Asian stocks slip on record oil rise.
Reuters reports that U.S.
oil hit a record above $59 a barrel on Monday, with traders fearing both strong demand and limited supply, pushing most Asian share markets lower but prompting strong gains in resource shares.
That is energy shares.
Traders place the next psychological target for crude at $60 a barrel after a threat on Friday against Western consulates in OPEC member Nigeria jolted a market that already was worried about tight supplies.
The oil market is on a permanent test.
Can it keep up with the demand at any one period?
Said Commonwealth Bank of Australia commodities analyst Tobin Gorey.
Supply is tight and demand is still growing.
The euro tumbled against the dollar after European Union leaders failed to agree on a budget, deepening a crisis triggered after French and Dutch voters rejected a proposed EU constitution.
Japan's Nikkei share average fell 0.24% in morning trading, threatening a six-session winning streak.
MSCI's index of non-Japanese Asian share markets rose 0.1%, supported by Australia's S&P ASX 200, where resource shares jumped.
Hong Kong's Hang Shing Index was the region's biggest gainer, up 0.27% by 0240 GMT time, while South Korea's
Kosipi was the top loser off 0.8%.
The benchmark in Singapore was down by a fifth, while Taiwan edged up 0.1%.
Oil sales and scales and new peaks eyes the $60 benchmark.
Again, they have soared to their all-time high right now, ladies and gentlemen.
A 59.18.
And right now, hours into trading, it looks like it may even go higher.
Just talking about the police state, Army could patrol UK streets, young Britons enjoying...
Drink-soaked nights out around Britain this summer could soon be in for a shock, a report said late on Saturday.
Troops patrolling the streets to keep order in an attempt to crack down on alcohol fuel disorder.
Dozens of towns around the country will draft in military police to help civilian officers arrest drunken yobs, the Sunday Telegraph reported.
Home Secretary Charles Clark has ordered the...
Initiative following an experiment at a town in Hertsfordshire, southern England, where military police were used to patrol the streets late at night.
And let's stop right there.
We have BBC reports from two years ago where Ukrainian troops in Scotland were pulling families out of cars on rural dirt roads.
And searching vehicles, families were crying, fathers got mad, violence was even threatened by some of the Scots, normally very peaceful people.
And then they said, oh, it's just a drill, we apologize.
London has four million plus cameras.
I say four million because that number is almost a year old.
They're always adding more.
They now face scan.
They scan your movements.
They listen to what you say.
Artificially intelligent computers listen for keywords.
Microphones are everywhere.
Same thing here in Austin.
Thousands of cameras, thousands of microphones, more going in routinely, federally funded everywhere.
But we look at England a few years, about three or four years ahead of us with all of those police state mechanisms.
In most areas they're ahead of us, in some they're not.
Texas barely defeated, thanks to you, the listeners of this broadcast, because the news never picked it up, transponders in all of our inspection stickers that would be used to start taxing us via the radio readers that have already been put up on all the major roads.
They put those radio readers up five years ago, all over the state.
I first saw them eight years ago in Houston and San Antonio.
And they now admit exactly what they are.
I simply went online many years ago and searched out the companies selling them and found that those indeed were radio frequency readers, and now, lo and behold, they're announcing what they've done.
But with the military, about six years ago, I was given video that we aired on the TV show at Fiesta.
A big party they have in downtown San Antonio every year.
I've never been, but I hear it's a lot of fun.
A big festivity.
And basically a weekend party where everybody goes wild.
All the restaurants and shops and the Riverwalk.
And it showed.
We have a video.
Military police from the Air Force.
The Air Force being the strongest contingent of the four armed services, the four branches in San Antonio.
What are there, like five Air Force bases down there?
Military police from the Air Force were searching bags, were helping police, were arresting people.
We have video and photos in Alabama.
It's all in my new film, Martial Law.
Where everyone going into the towns, period, the children, the mothers, the fathers, are searched by Alabama Defense Forces, literal goon squads.
Out there with their armored vehicles and their guns, searching the vehicles.
We've had special forces training all over the country, urban warfare drills, where the Marines, the Army, and foreign troops train to take over our cities.
And now, all over the country, we're hearing that the military is out helping run DUI checkpoints and, quote, searching the vehicles.
I mean regular Army, regular Marines, but not on our border, not on your life.
Can't do that.
So that's all this really is, is training you to live under martial law.
Tony Blair has introduced legislation where the people will be arrested en masse and shipped to, quote, rest and relocation centers in their emergency relocation contingency plan.
All of this is about acclimating.
So whatever you're seeing in England is now being done here.
In fact, about two months ago,
During Mardi Gras, we aired a local newscast that we were given.
This is in one of the weekly TV reports out of Galveston, Texas, where regular Army and National Guard teamed up along with the State Guard.
To shove on citizens, to arrest people with police.
They arrest you if you don't have an inspection sticker for any reason.
You're instantly arrested.
And it showed the troops yelling and screaming at the citizens, marching down the parade, bugging their eyes out at everyone.
Folks, this is total martial law.
Here's the London Telegraph on this today.
Now happy hour ends with martial law.
Ministers have ordered the army onto the streets to join an all-out summer campaign against anti-social behavior and violent behavior by yobs.
That's a British term for basically drunken teenagers.
What about arresting them?
They could already do that.
This is all by design.
They choose to not enforce.
Then it becomes a crisis.
Well, it's like two years ago, one of the most highly decorated RAF fighter pilots of World War II.
I mean, this guy had the equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor.
I forget the name of it, the Royal Cross or something.
But it said in the reports that he was like one of the most ten decorated British RAF people, okay?
They'd broken in his house.
They'd beat him up.
They'd broken in his house over ten times.
He finally aimed a toy gun at them and said, get out of here.
They arrested him.
We're going to charge him.
He was facing several years in prison.
He apologized to the Queen and the government and committed suicide.
That's how pathetic and brainwashed he was.
And that's just one example.
You've heard about the farmer gets...
Brutally robbed three times.
They're assaulting his wife.
He pulls out a 100-year-old shotgun passed down secretly by his family.
Shotgun's one of them.
And the guy he injures sues him and wins, and he got like 40 years in prison.
He's still in prison.
So I see these reports every day out of England, by the way.
Every day we post stuff along these lines.
So this is the model.
I'm not just picking a few cases here.
You remember the famous Beatle?
He just died of cancer last year.
Well, while he was under cancer treatment three years ago, the guy breaks in, is raping his wife, trying to stab her.
He fights back.
She breaks a light over the guy's head.
And there were discussions of charging her for hitting him over the head as he's stabbing the Beatle.
Was it Harrison?
So, yeah, it was George Harrison.
I don't really follow music much.
I forget the name.
It was George Harrison.
So this is the type of stuff we deal with.
Just type in, man arrested for stabbing a sailor.
You'll get hundreds of reports.
People in their homes, as they're being stabbed themselves, grab the knife away and stab and are charged.
You're supposed to lay there like a jellyfish and take it.
People hit criminals over the head with pokers, out of their fireplaces, jail time.
Four million cameras.
And so, Bedlam breaks out, and when Bedlam breaks out, oh, we'll put the troops on the streets.
Oh, you throw a piece of gum on the street, we're going to give you six months in jail.
On and on and on and on.
Oh, two- and three-year-olds, toddlers, if they show aggressive behavior, will criminally enroll you in probation.
That was last week.
See, this is the plan.
Get us all into the system.
Masses of news, masses of information.
Believe me, we haven't hit the tip of the iceberg.
It's coming up.
Currency devaluation, inflation.
One and the same.
If you had deposited $100,000 in a bank at 1% in a 30-month period dating from May 24, 2005, here is what happened to your funds.
The dollar lost 33% of its value in that time frame.
Your $100,000 now has a net purchasing power of $68,000.
The bank paid you 1%.
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I won't back down.
I can't back down.
A giant prison is being built for all of us.
Illegitimate criminal groups have seized control of our western governments are openly setting up a police state and they're telling us it's patriotic to not ask questions and to do whatever they say and to go along with whatever wars they push.
And to let them take our liberties.
No, that is criminal, that is treasonous, that is treacherous, that is seditious.
It is our right, it is our duty to resist it with every fiber of our beings.
America isn't about being in a police state and worshipping government.
America is about being a free country.
And look around you at all the regulations, the controls, the manipulations of our lives.
This isn't what our country is supposed to be.
Look at the news I've got.
The U.S.
war with Iran has already begun.
I pointed this out a year ago because our government's been inserting special forces troops all over Iran.
The troops are already there.
And Scott Ritter has been proven completely accurate, has now been proven even more accurate, and he's put out a report on this.
Also, a classic sting operation enacted as Downing Street memos called possible hoaxes.
Are Downing Street memos authentic or elaborate hoaxes?
Blogs question credibility of reporter who typed copies, destroyed originals to protect those he claimed were his sources.
Now, the government admits they're accurate, but then their discussions are one of the memos, not the originals.
And again, this discredits then the entire discussion.
And they do this over and over again.
It's like in the middle of the torture...
It's amazing.
This has all the hallmarks of a sting operation, Paul Watson wrote.
The Murdoch Papers released the Downing Street Memo story worldwide, despite the fact the British government has already admitted that the information in the documents is true, and many more, which essentially say the same thing, were later released.
This one document was photocopied, allowing the mainstream media...
We're good to go.
This one memo was a photocopy.
That means Bush never planned to invade Iraq all along and never lied about WMD to justify it.
He was just an unfortunate victim of misguided intelligence.
Now the intense activist pressure to get the mainstream media to cover the Downing Street memo is thrown back in their face and alternative research is discredited while the establishment gets another pat on the back.
It's amazing how they keep employing the same tactic and people keep falling for it.
The Pentagon admits...
Multiple cases of Koran abuse in its own reports, but in this one instance, Newsweek's source may have been wrong when he said that they flushed it down the toilet when they only threw it in the toilet and urinated on it.
This means that any allegations of Koran abuse are null and void.
This means that Guantanamo Bay really is a nice place to stay, a holiday home, according to Rush Limbaugh.
The Bush AWOL story was known and admitted for years, but the CBS documents related to the one specific time period of Bush's military service may be forgeries.
That means the whole story collapses and Bush never went AWOL.
What's next?
An investigation by the History Channel includes that thousands of pieces of evidence of Gladio used to prove the world was round is slightly inaccurate.
I misread that.
It's What's Next?
An investigation by the History Channel concludes that one of the thousands of pieces of evidence used by Galileo used to prove the world was round is slightly inaccurate.
Therefore, any further claims as the world being round are now pure conspiracy theory.
Good job, Paul.
Man, I tell you, in about eight paragraphs, you destroyed them.
Well done.
Oh, and I've got a bunch more of these here.
I tell you, we're to...
We're to start.
UK helped train Massacre Army in Uzbekistan.
That's out of the Scotsman.
LA lost, excuse me, Louisiana Town.
This is what happens when I try to speed up here.
I start bumbling.
So I'm going to slow down.
I just want to get to your calls, but we'll cover the news first, and we'll get to them.
So I'm going to slow down.
We're going to cover the news, then go to your calls.
Louisiana Town stunned by church.
Child sex ring.
And so much more coming up after this quick break.
Infowars.com, prisonplanet.com, infowars.net.
Stay with us.
We're on the march.
The empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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We're good to go.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
I'm going to plow through some more of this news and decipher some of the globalist propaganda, and we'll go to some of your calls on this live Monday edition, 1-800-259-9231.
Big guest, MI5, that's British internal and CIA agent, will be joining us on government terrorism, 9-11, bombings in England, you name it.
Then Professor David Ray Griffin coming up in the third hour, so just a jam-packed broadcast today.
Before I get back into the news, though, last week, this week's showing of martial law at the Alamo Draft House on South Lamar was sold out.
It was basically already sold out last Tuesday, or nine days before we were even going to show it.
And I found out why.
The normal theater seats about 230 people.
And it's a huge theater because on top of that, every person has their own table to eat.
So a 230-person theater is just gigantic.
But for some reason, because of a bunch of new movies coming out, they could only give me this week the 130-person theater.
And so that's why it sold out so early.
So I'm offering, and this is the last one because I'm too busy to keep doing this.
Next Monday, the 27th, 8 p.m., Alamo Draft House, South Lamar.
It will be the last showing in the 230 or 240 big theater.
Last showing next Monday or the 29th.
That will be the last showing.
You can go to InfoWars.com, link through via the safe, secure online shopping cart over to the Alamo Draft House, and purchase your tickets beforehand.
Or if you live in Central Texas and are going down South Lamar and want to stop and buy tickets, or you have friends or family that work in Austin, you can ask them to go to the door and buy tickets early.
You can do that as well.
But I've got a sneaking suspicion that this will sell out by this weekend.
A lot of people have been disappointed.
A lot of folks have been turned away.
I don't like it.
I wish these theaters held 500 people and they could just have a couple of events.
But they keep selling out.
We're having one more showing of martial law.
One more.
Coming up on the 27th next Monday.
And tickets for that are still available.
Martial Law is my best film.
It is 2 hours and 35 minutes, the main film is.
Then the extras on the DVD are 25 minutes long, so it comes out to a little over 3 hours long.
But we show 235 minutes in the theatrical release, and...
Martial law of 9-1-1, rise of the police state.
Out of the ashes of September 11th tragedy, a dark empire of war and tyranny has risen.
The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a police state.
This film exposes not just who was behind 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestrators.
We're good to go.
The New World Order has set in motion the Fourth Reich.
Martial law is a blazing spotlight, piercing the electronic Berlin Wall of controlled corporate media.
Plumb the depths of the elite's minds, their ideology, their driving philosophy, and uncover the power-mad cult of death that has sworn to turn the Earth into their own prison planet.
Discover the documented truth for yourself before it's too late.
Get martial law.
Get road to tyranny.
Get dark secrets inside Bohemian Grove.
Get the Masters of Terror.
Make copies.
They're so effective.
They're so powerful.
Most people that will sit down and watch these videos are having the blinders taken off.
And I want to commend those that have gotten the films.
I want to thank those that have gotten them and have made copies.
You've had a great effect.
Please, if you've gotten them and haven't made copies, make copies.
If you haven't ordered the videos, please get them today.
The toll-free number to order the films...
That's 888-253-3139.
Is 1-888-253-3139.
Or just write to me, Alex Jones, at 3001 South Lamar, L-A-M-A-R, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
Or go to prisonplanet.tv, and for 15 cents a day, we have monthly and yearly subscriptions.
You can see all 12 of my films, a whole bunch of other documentaries, my weekly TV reports, my best audio interviews, my book, Paul Watson's book, a bunch of other e-books.
It's the best deal out there, prisonplanet.tv.
All right.
Let's get into the news.
I'll tell you what.
Let's just take a few calls right now, and then I'll go back into the news.
Let's go ahead and talk to Robert in Denver, Colorado.
Robert, go ahead.
Good morning.
Thanks for taking my call.
I appreciate that.
Well, for that, I reported the 9-1-1 roundtable Thursday on my hard drive.
I won't listen to about half of it, but the half I did listen to was excellent.
You did a great job.
By the way, I commend you for not the level of Lance when he started to attack you, which I thought was just ridiculous.
I thought it was interesting, though, even though Mike disagreed with you, he was at least polite.
He didn't call you names.
So that was cool.
Yeah, you're talking about the most highly anticipated coast-to-coast program ever.
I mean, they hyped it for like three or four months, and they did have record listeners, and tens of millions of people per hour hearing the truth.
And yeah, even the two guys I was debating, they really couldn't argue with me.
Well, all Peter could do was call you names.
But Mike was cool.
He didn't agree with you, but he at least was a professional.
Well, I mean, he knew the minute he name-called, he'd lose the debate.
Yeah, exactly.
So thanks again for being professional.
I read an article by a guy named John Newby on News News that sends me daily emails and questions.
And his latest article is really interesting.
It says that Social Security is unconstitutional.
Would you agree with that?
It is unconstitutional, and that's a whole other discussion.
You know, there's complex reasons why it's unconstitutional, but it's also a lot of really simple reasons why it's unconstitutional.
Why does he say it's unconstitutional?
You know, I don't remember off the top of my head.
He didn't really get into that too much, but he just crunched some numbers and said,
If you put in X number of dollars at a simple 5% percentage rate, after about 30, 40 years or so, you should walk away with well over a million dollars, but clearly that doesn't happen with anyone who's getting Social Security.
Conservatively, several million.
Thanks for the call.
Over a million dollars in 30 years with about a 3.5%.
Now the problem is, in 30 years, a million dollars will probably be like $100,000.
You know, that's another way the globalists steal from us is this inflation.
And they tell you there's no inflation, or that we have really low inflation.
Folks, I bought a Mustang in high school, okay, off of money that I earned from jobs.
And that thing was about, oh, I guess about $15,000.
And that was only about 15 years ago.
I'm only 31 years old.
Now, a similar Mustang is about $30,000 or more today.
A Chevy Silverado that was $12,000 15 years ago is like $25,000.
Look at the cost of education.
Look at the cost of oil, the cost of gasoline.
Look at your power bill.
Look at your phone bill.
Look at your cable bill.
Look at the price of everything.
I remember when a gallon of milk was about a third of what it is now.
So, folks, they can tell you all day there's no inflation.
It's poppycock.
Look, the government being in the business of a supplementary retirement or pension, that's socialism.
Now, I'm not saying even get rid of Social Security.
Let's be clear.
It's like having a non-malignant tumor.
That is a tumor that isn't growing very fast, or a tumor that isn't going to metastasize and launch other cancer blobs all over the body.
You know, balls of cells.
But still, it's attached to your lungs, it's attached to your heart, it's making you have heart problems because it's simply grown into some of your nerve endings.
Well, the doctors look at it and tell you, we really can't cut this thing out.
We're so dependent.
So many people are so wedded to it that, you see, now they've got us.
And so now, it's, oh, let's privatize, which actually brings you deeper down the slippery slope because they're going to run a bunch of different scans with that.
It is a true privatization.
Now, if they just said, period...
And I looked at the different plans, but let's say they said we're going to take half the money of young people, and they can invest it anywhere they want, as long as it's a quote, you know, not somebody selling mine shafts or miracle magic health products, then they would still get almost a million dollars.
And then take the other half their money and put it in for the people that are currently on Social Security.
The problem is...
Social Security payments are so much larger compared to what people have paid in, plus you have the problem with what they say doesn't exist, inflation, that it wouldn't even be near the amount to pay people what they're currently getting, and people are living on that.
So they got us, folks.
They got us in socialism, and it's just going to get deeper and deeper.
And who are the authors of all of this socialism?
Who penned it?
The big corporations.
They've always wanted a big government that they can use to control the population.
And the left won't tell you that.
And neither will the conservatives, the Rush Limbaughs of the world, who won't talk about how Bush is for gun control, who won't talk about how Bush is for open borders, who won't talk about how Bush appoints all these pro-abortion judges, who won't talk about Bush signing on to UNESCO.
No, he'll just say you're a communist if you're against Bush.
And the poor, pathetic left is against Bush for all the wrong reasons.
And talk about how the evil Matt Drudge and Limbaugh are attacking Clinton.
Hillary hangs out with Rupert Murdoch.
They got an alliance going.
Clinton vacations on a monthly basis with the Bushes.
Barbara now calls him their son.
Clinton calls them his parents.
I told you they were narcotics traffickers together in the 1980s when he was governor over MENA.
I've interviewed the CIA agents who were there unloading the cocaine.
It looked like a major metropolitan airport or something.
So many aircraft were coming in.
Jets and top-driven C-130s.
I just don't know what to say anymore.
It's a WWF wrestling match.
It's totally fake.
Alright, let's get into some other news here.
After I knock the microphone off the...
I am really fired up.
I got lots of sleep this weekend.
Coming off getting no sleep last Thursday.
Look at this article.
I could spend all day on this.
There was another article out of Eastern Europe where they grabbed this nun who had just become a nun six months ago and they crucified her and killed her.
Orthodox Church.
And the guy looks like Charlie Manson, the priest that killed her.
He hadn't even been arrested yet.
And they didn't even give her the proper funeral, saying she was a witch.
And the nuns went along with killing her.
And that just shows the mind control.
It's normally the devil worshippers are normally the people posing as the preachers, posing as the conservative Christian president.
But people just can't believe it because of the trappings of goodness.
And that's why I'm going to cover this article now out of Fox News.
It's actually the Associated Press posted on Fox News.
Louisiana town stunned by church child sex ring.
From his storefront next door, Donald Moore got an up-close look at the strange changes that went on at the once-bustling Hosanna Church.
For one thing, the congregation had dwindled to a handful of reclusive members who chased away visitors.
For another, the windows were painted white so no one could see in, and just before it closed its doors, for good a couple of years ago, eight dump trucks came in and spread dirt over the church's back lot.
Last month, these suspicions played out in the way almost no one in this southeastern Louisiana town of 5,000 could have imagined.
Nine people, including the pastor, his wife, and a sheriff's deputy, were accused of engaging in cult-like sexual activity with children and animals inside the hall of worship.
Eight now face child rape charges that could bring the death penalty.
You can't believe something like this was going on right under your own feet.
Church members have admitted it.
They were sacrificing.
There's a pentagram inside the church.
Authorities and witnesses have described the use of robes, pentagrams on the church floor.
Well, why not make these people president then?
Bush goes to a place where they do that.
I shot video of it.
Skull and Bones does that.
I mean, it's Christian.
It's of the Lord.
Bush is anointed.
Authorities said witnesses have described the use of robes, pentagrams on the church floor, sex with a dog, and the sacrifice of cats.
The alleged victims are suspected to number up to two dozen, include children ranging from infants to young teens, some of them the offspring of those accused.
I've been the prosecutor.
In some rape cases and child molestation cases, but I've never heard of a group accused of doing anything like this, said the Tangphemia...
I can't pronounce this.
Parish Sheriff Daniel Edwards, a former state prosecutor.
Investigators believe the abuse case in 99 and continued until the church closed in 03, but it was not until a woman called from Ohio in April saying she had fled to protect her child that police claim they had even an inkling of what had happened.
About the same time, the church pastor, 45-year-old Louis Lampanica,
Walked into the neighboring Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office, sat down, and according to investigators, named names of detailed activities inside the church.
Lamb Monika was arrested, followed by eight other authorities, said, and described as central members of the ring.
All but one are being held without bond.
Even the tipster from Ohio, Nicole Bernrad...
Was arrested on rape charges along with her ex-husband.
So you know it's bad when they're even arresting the tipster.
And I can't read any more, folks.
There's two more pages of this.
And I'm not going to read what they allegedly did.
But sounds like something out of Eyes Wide Shut.
But that's your Christian conservative leaders, folks.
Why it's a church?
They couldn't be doing anything wrong there.
It was once a church with over a thousand members.
It was a huge church, but they kicked everybody out.
The preacher did, so he could worship Lucifer.
Even if you don't believe in the devil, you're an atheist out there.
There are people that do believe in it.
And they run your government.
And they've got a vaccine they want to give you because they care about you.
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Hello, my friends.
Alex Jones here.
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Coming up, right when we start this next show, we're going to have David Shaler, former member of MI5, with just unbelievable revelations on internal terrorism by the government in England.
Terrorism obviously involved with the government in 9-11.
This is going to be a major news-making interview, and we're honored to have him coming up.
I know I said I'd take calls.
It took about 50 last Friday, but then I have to ask all the people that are holding loaded phone lines to just stay with us.
We'll get to you in the next hour, but I've got to cover this next piece of news here.
I've just got to cover it.
I called Paul Watson yesterday, sent him some notes, asked him to write an article about this, and he outdid my greatest expectations of him.
It's on prisonplanet.com.
Rush Limbaugh plums new depths of perversion, releases Gitmo t-shirt line, Oxycontin-coffing, bush-worshipping, torture apologist Rush Limbaugh has plumbed a new low in both sickness and inaccuracy.
Limbaugh has been hawking a new line of caps, t-shirts, mugs that depict the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba as a holiday resort.
The t-shirt above reads, Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad.
Another reads, I got my free Koran and free prayer rug at Gitmo.
And another, my moolah and I went to Club Gitmo and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.
Limbaugh has been promoting the products on his radio show in an attempt to bolster the Bush administration's recent assertions that Camp X-Ray really is a nice place to stay.
In the face of its critics calling for the camp's closure.
Recall that this is the same Rush Limbaugh who last year said, and we have that clip on the website, that Abu Ghraib prison guards were just having a good time and blowing off some steam.
That official U.S.
Army reported to Abu Ghraib lists activities that Limbaugh defines as harmless fun.
They include breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees, sodomizing detainees with chemical lights,
I can't read some of this.
Positioning a naked detainee goes on.
Raping children.
A male guard having sex with a female detainee.
Beating detainees to death.
This is what's admitted, by the way.
People have been convicted of this.
All of the above are great ways to relax, according to Rush Limbaugh.
Raping children and beating people to death is a harmless fraternity fun.
We know from every investigation, government disclosure, prisoner testimony, and whistleblower testimony that exactly the same, even worse, procedures are taking place at Guantanamo Bay.
The Abu Ghraib torture policy was the same one being used previously at Gitmo.
We have a link to that.
The policy was called Copper Green and it was masterminded by Donald Rumsfeld.
Does it sound like a summer holiday camp to you?
Numerous different detainees have, upon their releases, confirmed that torture is taking place
And that people are routinely beaten to death.
Been a whole bunch of deaths at Gitmo.
Oh, but of course those dirty terrorists would say that.
They hate America.
They're trained to lie, says Rumsfeld.
The truth is that, as the LA Times reported, no leaders of Al-Qaeda were identified as being at Guantanamo.
That's because the U.S.
government ordered all poor cavemen who were shoved onto the front lines by the Taliban to be arrested.
Even paid bounties for innocent people to be arrested.
That was mainstream news two weeks ago.
While they safely evacuated 8,000 Taliban and Al-Qaeda cream by accident, of course, from Kunduz in Afghanistan.
It's the same in Iraq, where 70-90% are arrested by mistake.
We have a link to the Army report.
And others for trivial things such as not presenting their papers at checkpoints, over freedom, or selling alcohol without a license.
The Guantanamo prisoners were described by the London Guardian as Pakistani and Afghan farmers, shoemakers, and taxi drivers who were forced to fight for the Taliban.
Most of those people are Stone Age cave dwellers who can't even find America on a map.
Jamal Al-Harith related how he suffered a brutal attack by U.S.
military police because he refused to have a mystery injection.
During the beating, the officers barked in terror.
Automated unison.
Comply, comply, comply, do not resist, do not resist.
Other detainees have gone public and said that they were being raped by menstruating prostitutes.
That's admitted.
Suicide attempts are common, and after it was admitted by the Pentagon that there were five in three weeks, the news media mysteriously shut up and stopped talking about it.
The article goes on and on.
We'll hopefully get to it later.
We'll be right back.
Stay with us.
If you would like a copy of this show, come to GCNlive.com and reserve it today.
Or call toll-free 877-376-45.
Big Brother Mainstream Media
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Alright, 25 seconds into the second hour of worldwide transmission against tyranny.
It's not about left or right, it's about right and wrong.
Understanding who stands to gain from terrorism.
Looking at the police state grid being built around us.
I briefly, in the last hour, got into Rush Limbaugh.
I heard him yesterday saying how wonderful Gitmo is, how it's a vacation place.
So we just posted all the admissions of torture and everything else on PrisonPlanet.com.
I hope you'll get this article and get it out to everybody.
Coming up in the next hour, Professor David Ray Griffin will be joining us to talk about the latest cover-ups on 9-11, and to talk about the great debate we had, myself and of course him, up against a few individuals on Coast to Coast AM last Thursday into Friday morning.
So that's coming up in the third hour.
But for this hour, and we will open the phones up in about 30 minutes, I am extremely honored to be joined by a gentleman who went to jail for telling the truth.
Not for putting out this info.
They admit his information was totally accurate.
That's all admitted.
But for being under national security and violating that, which he really didn't even do.
Whistleblower David Shaler, former MI5 officer.
He burst upon the public consciousness in August of 97 with articles in the mail on Sunday about mismanagement and misdeeds at his former employers.
And it gets into basically the British government being behind terror bombings.
All right, Alex, hi.
It's good to have you, sir.
Well, thank you very much, and thank you very much for that introduction.
You bet.
Are you on your cell phone?
I am, yeah.
I'm not at home at the moment.
Okay, well, that's fine, just as long as it's got an hour of power.
Yeah, don't worry, it has, yeah.
Well, fantastic.
If it cuts out, we'll call you right back.
Tell us about yourself.
Well, I joined MI5 in very peculiar circumstances, because I actually was previously a journalist and a protester, but in the early 1990s, there was a recession and no jobs in journalism.
We're good to go.
It became apparent it was MI5.
But I must be the most unlikely person ever to have worked for the British Intelligence Services because I don't come from the kind of background like James Bond or George Smiley.
I'm not public school.
I didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge universities, which is normally the profile of people who work there.
And I joined really to stop terrorism.
I mean, obviously, when I did join, there was an IRA campaign going on in Britain.
But one of the first things I found was that the services couldn't actually stop terrorism, even when they were in possession of information.
Well, we're going to break here in a moment and come back and have a long segment and plenty of time to talk, but just in a thumbnail sketch, describe your six years with MI5.
Well, it was two lots of things.
They couldn't actually stop terrorist attacks when they were in possession of reliable information, but obviously more worryingly, and most worryingly, was I was briefed on an operation carried out by MI6 using a Libyan
Uh, within Libya, a member of Libyan military intelligence to try and assassinate Colonel Gaddafi.
But the member of Libyan intelligence was, uh, an associate of Osama bin Laden.
And MI6 paid tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money to him to try and assassinate Gaddafi.
That operation failed and innocent people died.
But the worrying implications of that operation were, of course, if this man had taken power,
In Libya, we've had an associate of bin Laden in power in a country which is, of course, oil-rich.
Okay, I want to go over that.
I want to go over IRA bombings that were really orchestrated by the British government.
I want to go over your take on 9-11.
And I want to get into the Princess Diana murder.
On the other side of this quick break with former MI5 officer David Shaler.
Stay with us.
Hey folks, Alex Jones here, announcing the release of my most comprehensive documentary exposing the New World Order's orchestration of the September 11th attacks yet.
In my new film, The Masters of Terror, we chronicle the globalist hasher plan for world domination.
The Masters of Terror details how the elite are using manufactured terrorism to drive the world population into accepting tyranny.
We're good to go.
That's 888-253-3139.
Hello folks, this is Alex Jones.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
Right after 9-11, an Air Force colonel in San Francisco went public, detailing inside knowledge and also the publicly available facts that showed a government inside job concerning September 11th, this foundational event for a total police state takeover.
We've had Bob Dole's former chief of staff on.
Bob Dole's former chief of staff, Stanley Hilton, who sued Bush twice and always gets thrown out for government involvement in 9-11, and he's represented hundreds of the victims' family members.
We've got Michael Meacher, who was number three in the Blair government, writing the headline, The War on Terror is Bogus, and saying if the government didn't do it, they certainly had total prior knowledge and helped it along.
We have Andres von Bulow,
German Defense Minister, Minister of Technology going public on this broadcast.
Another former Minister of Defense has also gone public.
From Germany.
We've seen George Galloway on this broadcast when I brought up government involvement in 9-11.
When I said, couldn't they carry out more terror to attack Iran?
He said, absolutely, that's a real threat.
We've got, of course, Mr. Reynolds.
Going public last week, former chief economist, Department of Labor, saying all the evidence points towards an inside job.
Prominent professors like David Ray Griffin.
I can't list all of them, ladies and gentlemen.
General Milton K. Parton has exposed government involvement in Oklahoma City.
The truth is coming out.
FBI agents, David Shippers, all these people, Larry Klayman, Judicial Watch.
But the gentleman we've got on now was ordered by the British government, the Blair government, under threat of arrest, and he's already spent six months in prison for this before, to keep his mouth shut about his in-depth knowledge of the British government being behind bombings in England as a pretext for control.
So we are joined by former MI5 agent David Shaler, who, again, is very busy.
He's in meetings in and out all day.
He is joining us from a park.
In downtown London, via cell phone, that he's got to duck into another meeting in 50 minutes.
So we're honored to have him.
David, some stations don't carry that first five-minute segment.
So recap who you are, how you got involved, how you got hired by MI5.
Here's an example of how they buy up the media.
Here's another example of them unknowingly, of Mr. Shaler unknowingly basically being part of all this.
The CIA here controls most of the mainstream media.
But let's get into that and then go through how you first learned of who stood to gain from terrorism.
Bring us through to September 11th.
But on the record, first off, explain to people that there's a national order telling you to shut your mouth.
Go ahead.
They've got a court order against me which prevents me from saying anything about my time in the services.
That's right.
Now, technically, obviously, by doing this interview with you, I am breaking the law.
But it's a kind of game of cat and mouse.
They won't go after me for this because it is already public domain.
These are things I've said before.
But technically, that shouldn't stop them.
And in the past, of course, I've been put in prison twice.
I went to prison once in France when they tried to extradite me.
And to give you an idea of what this was like, I was at the time trying to get Tony Blair to investigate my evidence about MI6 funding Al-Qaeda in 1996 to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi.
And, of course, because I was trying to approach Tony Blair to do this,
The British intelligence services didn't want that, so they had me arrested in France and thrown in prison.
Of course, that story did emerge, but only because the New York Times was brave enough to publish it.
And once it was published in the New York Times, the British press could actually publish.
But of course, I wasn't in a position to be able to give my evidence because I was locked up.
And that is the way they've played this game all the way across.
They've tried to lock me up, they've tried to take people to court.
I actually blew the whistle as well about one of the biggest bombs ever to have gone off, the Bishopsgate bomb in London.
And again, the incompetence of MI5 meant that they didn't stop that even though they had prior warning of the attack.
And would you believe the editor of the magazine who published my article was also convicted under this court order, basically.
So they're using any method they can to try and shut me up.
Now I think, in retrospect, the MI6 funding of al-Qaeda to try and get rid of Gaddafi was the attempt to create an al-Qaeda state in North Africa.
So back in 1991, you get into MI5, and you're there working for them.
When did you first start to get inklings of what was really going on?
Well, I worked in the section that dealt with communists and Trotskyists and so on, which is a bit of a hangover from the Cold War.
I mean, bearing in mind the Cold War by that time had been finished for two years, these sections still existed.
And I saw how they had manipulated political protest groups, how they penetrated legitimate groups like the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and other mainstream political groups.
Well, they're trying to radicalize and get them to provocateur.
There was certainly cases of that.
There was one case in an anarchist group in this country called Class War, which was virtually being run by an agent of the state.
He was actually a full-time policeman who lived six days as an anarchist and one day as a policeman.
And he was running Class War, essentially.
Without him, the organization would have been incapable of doing anything at all.
Yeah, we found that here, too.
Yeah, so that was the first tip-off that something was wrong.
When I worked on the IRA desk, I came across other things as well.
I mean, we've just recently had an inquiry here into Bloody Sunday, the events of 1972, when 13 innocent Catholics were gunned down by the British Army, and the British Army tried to lie their way out of it.
But when the recent inquiry was announced, they leaked information trying to indicate that Martin McGuinness, a member of Sinn Fein, had started the events of Bloody Sunday.
And I have to go on the record again of risking prosecution to say that the agent who claimed this was in fact totally unreliable and known by the services to be what was called a bullshitter.
Sir, I know that in England you can talk like that, and I understand that our TV does that now, too.
I understand that it's from a document, but we can't use that type of language here.
No, that's okay.
I mean, actually, in that format, you actually can on PBS and stuff, so actually that's coverable, but I still don't want to do it.
I apologize for having to tell you not to do that, but our TV and radio is different.
Go ahead.
But yeah, that was the word they used anyway.
I understand that's a public document and that's something that needs to be discussed.
Now, so you're in the Communist desk, then you move to the IRA desk.
When did that happen?
That was in 1992.
What did you begin to discover then?
There was almost like an institutional failure to be able to get to grips with the IRA.
When MI5 took over the role for a police service in Britain,
When they did so, they started off by tapping people's phones who were no longer a threat on the basis of false information.
And they didn't incorporate the records from this police organisation.
So all the investigations were slowed down.
And during that period, the IRA carried out more frequent attacks than before or since.
And interestingly as well, when I first moved to the Middle Eastern section, I was handed an operation that was already begun into a journalist who worked for the Guardian newspaper in Britain.
There's absolutely nothing wrong other than have some money paid into her account.
It was done through official channels, so there really could be no suspicion.
But MI5 failed to follow procedure, and again on the basis of inaccuracies, obtained a warrant off the government to tap her phone for a year.
But what was worse is they wanted to go into her house and do what I think in the US would be called a sneak and peek search, where they go in covertly, they get a warrant to do so off the government, they go in covertly,
But as part of that operation, they were going to get this Guardian journalist's daughter arrested on trumped-up charges in the US, would you believe?
This is the kind of thing that was going on all the time.
Back off your phone again.
I apologise.
I keep giving you all these instructions.
So, trying to frame people?
Essentially, yes.
The thing with the IRA as well, where people were arrested, and people in MI5 knew these people were not guilty.
And those comments were not passed on to the police, so people were held on remand for a long time.
These cases were dropped before people went to court, but they should have been stopped a lot earlier.
They were innocent, knowingly innocent people in prison.
Basically harassment cases?
It was just, it was kind of just, yeah, police harassment, really.
And the same thing has happened with two Palestinians called...
Jawed Botme and Samar Alami, who were convicted of conspiracy to cause the attack on the Israeli embassy in Britain in 1994.
But MI5 didn't disclose two documents which indicated their innocence.
One document indicated another group had carried out the attack.
I want to stop you right there.
Everything we're talking about today...
London Guardian, London Telegraph, BBC.
It's posted.
We have a whole MI5 David Shaler section on prisonplanet.com.
And I want now to get into the Omaha bombing and other bombings where we have MI6 actually as the leaders of the bombing groups ordering people to carry out bombings.
I mean, we're not just talking about knowing about a bombing and letting it happen or just funding it.
I mean, let's get into that right now.
I don't know enormous amounts about the actual overhaul bombing itself, other than the fact that, I mean, certainly, they were, again, tipped off beforehand.
It appears that they, you know, they say they had to turn the blind eye to this, or they actually were actively trying to let it happen.
Well, what about the articles where you have agents in at the highest levels of the groups, they're kneecapping people, they don't carry out attacks?
I mean, I've got the articles here in front of me.
Oh, yes, there was the case of State Knife, in which...
The State Knife, an agent of MI5 and the Army Intelligence, was actually torturing and killing other agents who were bravely risking their lives to report upon the IRA to stop those attacks.
Now, I mean, that is absolutely unforgivable, it really is.
Interestingly, when his name was first revealed, the agent State Knife, somebody called, I can't remember his name, Scappatacci,
When that first came out, the services tried to pin the blame on me for leaking it to the media, which I didn't do.
But of course, by doing that again, they were trying to put my life at risk from attack from loyalist terrorist groups.
This is how they work.
And again, I mean, in summer of 2002, I was in a high-speed blast in my car in very suspicious circumstances.
And I say suspicious because I'd actually had the tyres checked about a week beforehand.
They were perfectly okay.
I was driving along in the car when a few times I was there by myself.
Stay there.
Stay there, David.
I want to hear about this on the other side.
Then I want to get into the latest police state developments in 9-11.
We'll be right back.
Stay with us.
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Waging war on corruption.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Coming up in the next segment, we'll take some calls for our guest, former MI5 officer, David Shaler.
And of course, his partner, who he's helped write a book with, Spies, Lies, and Whistleblowers, Annie Michon, former MI5 herself, is available through Amazon.UK.
And so you can go over to that Amazon and order the book there if you like.
I would imagine it's probably available through the USAmazon.com, though I don't know.
But because of the constraints of time, David, let's just run through it in little condensed versions.
What happened with using Al-Qaeda to go after Qaddafi against showing it's a British MI6 connected control group?
Then into Staten Island, one of the key cases you uncovered, where the government really is behind bombings and shootings.
And then let's get into your take on 9-11.
Go ahead, sir.
There was a talk about the detail of how they actually funded al-Qaeda in Libya.
I mean, the initial approach was made by somebody who they codenamed Tunworth, who was a Libyan military intelligence officer.
He first walked into the British Embassy in Tunis and asked to see an MI6 officer.
But he made it very clear at the time that he was leading a group of Islamic extremist terrorists.
But what he said, of course, crucially, is if he took power, he would hand over to Lockerbie suspects
For trial to Britain.
So that's what interested MI6 to start with.
But then around about Christmas 1995, somebody whose name is in the public domain, David Watson, an MI6 officer dealing with Libya, came to see me and told me that they'd been earmarked $40,000 to start with to fund this man, which he gave to Tunworth in January 1996.
He then made further payments to Tunworth, we're not sure how many, but we got the impression they were the same sort of amounts again,
So we could be talking something in the region of about $120,000, $160,000 in all.
And then I actually saw evidence of the attack from, would you believe it, another side.
I was reading other intelligence reports, and suddenly I read about an attack, and of course, because we'd seen the modus operandi that this agent had proposed, i.e.
the way they were going to carry out the attack had been put in a report prior to the attack, when I saw descriptions of an event in Libya in which Colonel Gaddafi's car
It was attacked with either a grenade or a bomb, but unfortunately it was a cavalcade of cars, and they got the wrong car.
The car they blew up was not Gaddafi's.
Gaddafi's bodyguards got him out.
But then, of course, subsequently innocent people were killed.
So I saw it from independent sources.
I then asked MI6 about this, and they said, yes, that was our man, i.e.
the man they'd been paying the money through to carry out this operation.
They saw this as a success.
And the example, I guess, of a success for them is striking fear into Gaddafi and also showing they had an active, ready-to-engage group under their control.
But we see al-Qaeda against the Russians.
We see al-Qaeda...
In the late 90s, against the Serbs.
Over and over again, we see Al-Qaeda working as clients for Western intelligence.
Well, this is always the problem.
The more I see of this, the more I'm convinced that the problems of the world are created by, particularly MI6 and the CIA, by funding groups.
I mean, the reason that Saddam Hussein was in a position to evacuate in 1991 was because...
He had been funded and been given weapons by the British and the Americans, the same as you're saying with... Yeah, $35 million.
Yeah, exactly, and this is what keeps him to go on, and if it wasn't, if they weren't actually actively funding these organizations, they were certainly letting them become more powerful than they were, so they could create an environment of fear, and they could go to the government and say, look, we need to have more powers...
More restrictions of civil liberties, more powers of arrest and detention, and so on.
Let's go back to steak knife, though.
Now, this is IRA bombings.
I've got, like, 30 articles, mainstream plus.
I've got a big printout here, where the evidence is clear.
MI6 and others are literally, in many cases, leading and funding and commanding terror groups.
Can you get into that for us?
It wasn't MI6 in this case.
It was... Army Intelligence.
Army Intelligence.
Yeah, it was Army Intelligence, which is a thing called the Forces Research Unit in Northern Ireland.
And what they were doing, they say they had this agent called State Knife, his real name was Scappatacci,
And what they were doing is they were using him to torture and kill other agents, reporting for, for example, the Royal Austin Constabulary, or reporting to MI5, but also helping those groups carry out attacks on innocent Catholics.
Well, also, I mean, I've got the articles here.
If people refused to carry out bombings, he would kill them.
Well, this is it, yes.
I mean, this is not just a result of media reporting.
There's been a thorough inquiry...
Stay there.
Stay there.
We've got a break again.
Long segment coming up.
Plenty of time to get through all this.
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
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From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
Well, you can hear the interesting sounds of a busy London park and nearby highways, which kind of, I think, adds to the whole effect, but we're really honored to have him joining us.
He is David Shaler, former MI5, and of course the book's out, with another MI5 agent, Spies, Lies, and Whistleblowers.
And we're going to be going to your calls here in a little while, but I want to get more into government-sponsored terror in England than what really happened with Princess Diana, and then his take on 9-11.
And I'm finding out from John and Casey and Fred and Emmett and Troy and everybody else, who exactly is calling for David Shaler, because that's who we're going to.
And coming up next hour, Professor David Ray Griffin will talk about our debate last Thursday night on Coast to Coast AM and the latest 9-11 developments.
But going back to David Shaler, David...
During the break, I said, look, I've got all these articles here, and you're the source of a lot of them.
You're not the source of a lot of others, but this just bolsters what you're saying about steak knife and about IRA and really countless examples.
Of anarchist groups, communist groups, IRA bomber groups, being headed up, being driven, being radicalized by MI6, MI5, Army Intelligence, or groups they're funding.
And I said clearly that these groups are behind the terrorism, and you had a comment to that.
Please continue commenting on that.
Then I want to get into Princess Diana and how this ties into it.
Dr. David Kelly, I want to get into 9-11 as well.
Please break it down for us.
Well, the interesting thing about the, say, the collusion and the British state using terrorist groups in Northern Ireland, Kinnis and Catholics and so on, the problem with that as well is that Tony Blair has helped the cover-up.
Tony Blair took out court injunctions to stop the media reporting these concerns when somebody blew the whistle.
He had blocked, so far, all prosecutions which should result from this, of course, because these people...
...guilty of conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause terrorism.
They should be going to prison for a very long time.
So the current Prime Minister is doing everything in his power to try and pervert the course of... ...obstruct justice to stop these things coming out properly, basically.
Now, you talked about motive earlier.
What is the motive for all of this?
Well, I think that the reason that stuff happened with the IRA in Northern Ireland was because the IRA bond...
The Conservative government during their conference in 1984 in Brighton in England and they saw that as a kind of beyond the usual kind of attacks because members of the cabinet were severely injured and so on and I think as a result of that they ordered a kind of shoot to kill policy and you'll notice as well that something we don't mention in the book but we should mention was that in Gibraltar there were three
I'm sorry, your phone cut out.
Did you say when their hands were tied?
When their hands were up in the air, they were obviously surrendering and they were shot in cold blood.
By the SAS.
Now, you know, the SAS is not entitled to do that.
It's a breach of the rule of law.
It's murder in normal circumstances.
But let's be specific.
I mean, we have instances where the government is literally funding the agents who are in control of groups that are carrying out bombings and shootings.
That's right.
Those are the cases with State Knife in Northern Ireland.
And a major investigation in Canada and the UK found that those findings were accurate.
Can you go over that?
Yeah, I'm going to say John Stevens, who was the most senior policeman in Britain at the time, went over, you know, did an extensive inquiry.
As usual in these circumstances, he was actually attacked in the media.
The MI6 has many friends in the media, has a section called Information Operations, who plant stories about people that they don't like.
And he got, he had his character trashed and so on, but he stuck to his job.
And then, of course, his inquiry was burnt down in Northern Ireland in very suspicious circumstances.
That is, physically his office was firebombed?
Yeah, his office was firebombed.
None of the fire extinguishers worked and so on.
The phones weren't working properly that day.
And the first results of his inquiry were actually firebombed.
Of course, he stuck to it and carried on very bravely.
And it took him a number of years.
And we're talking about something like 10, 15 years to get this report finished.
But he has done that.
And he's recommended that certain people be prosecuted, including somebody called Brigadier Gordon Kerr, who's a member of the British Army, a member of the 4th Research Unit, who appears to have been the person directing these attacks within the Army.
Now, as I say, those prosecutions have not happened yet because so far they seem to have been blocked by Tony Blair.
Good old Tony Blair.
Any other key areas you want to talk about concerning the IRA before we get into Princess Diana and then 9-11?
I think we can go after Princess Diana.
I mean, one thing I can mention about the service on a very small level was in one of the operations I was involved in, the services, would you believe, took 12 days to pass on intelligence about an IRA member.
And in that time, he carried out two bombings, two large-scale bombings against gas terminals in the northeast of England.
When I tried to point this out to my bosses I was told to shut up and I wrote a brief for government about it because I was so appalled and my boss got hold of the brief before it went out to government and changed the wording of the brief to make it look like the intelligence had arrived after the bombings rather than 12 days beforehand.
So again, this is what happens, this is how they cover up their tracks when they get things wrong, this is how they misrepresent information to government.
But, I mean, I would say over and over again, it's like the FBI cooking the bomb and training the drivers in the First World Trade Center bombing, and then when they get caught, oh, they got it wrong.
I mean, this gives them control.
This gives them bigger budgets.
Well, exactly, yeah.
I mean, this is why I think they were so slow to tackle the IRA.
When I was working in that section in 1992, it was almost to kind of create a private affair amongst the public.
So that they could then lobby government to introduce more and more restrictive laws and make it easier to arrest and detain people.
So you finally left MI5, what, in 97?
And then you've been arrested twice.
One time you spent how many months in prison?
I spent four months waiting for an extradition, which failed.
The French released me on the grounds that my offense was political.
And then I went through a court case in Britain
Well, I wasn't allowed to say anything in my defense.
The judge, in fact, vetted the questions I wanted to ask of prosecution witnesses.
Declaring national security?
Yeah, declaring national security.
In fact, there was an intervention from two British ministers of state, two secretaries of state, who signed documents preventing me from saying anything in my defense in court.
And is that gag order still in effect in England, not the print stories about you?
It is in effect, yes.
Of course it's still in effect, yes.
I mean, I take risks and brief people.
Because I believe the things I have to say are important, and a lot of innocent people... Well, we don't have those same laws here, though they're trying, but I want to be clear.
We are covering today everything that's already been published in highly respected publications.
That's right, yeah, yeah.
In fact, we're actually covering things that I have made a point of going to the police and swearing to under oath.
You know, saying to people, I want to do this under oath.
I am not just going to give you information.
I am quite prepared for you to judge my information...
You know, to say that's how honest I'm being.
I will swear to under oath that if I'm lying there's a criminal penalty and you can take me to court.
But David, I mean, I've seen the different reports.
Despite all their demonization of you and others, it seems that you're actually quite popular with the British people.
Well, that's right, because the British people can see through this kind of thing.
We had a recent general election and it was a real wake-up call for the government because one fell to go out and knock on people's doors.
It's a campaign for support.
They suddenly realized that people were, in Britain, massively concerned about these issues in connection with the Iraq War and the failure of the intelligence services to gather proper intelligence about Iraq.
Now, the reason I want to... And remember to back off your phone, sir.
The reason I want to talk about Diana is because you guys have covered this.
It's been in the news.
It's also, I believe, in the book.
That we have these cases of them...
If you've got a bunch of documents coming out, they'll then put out this info, that gets picked up, they later get to discredit it, trying to discredit the whole thing.
Tell us what really happened in a condensed form with Diana and some of the dirty tricks they played.
Well, the dirty trick you're talking about is known as the straw man technique, where you set something up to knock it down.
And in this case, shortly after the accident, someone called Oswald Lewinter
Who I knew from my time in the service was an MI6 agent, agent of influence.
He tried to sell documents to Mr. Al-Fayed for $20 million, indicating that MI6 and the CIA were involved.
And that's the father of the man that Princess Diane was going to be marrying?
That's the father of Doughty who died.
That's right, yeah, of Doughty Al-Fayed, the man that Princess Diana was going to marry.
So they're trying to sell him false documents.
Go ahead, tell us about it.
And the way that technique works is they are encouraging, obviously, to use these documents to prove a conspiracy, but of course, as a former officer, I knew those documents were forgeries.
I could see for about six good reasons why they were not genuine intelligence documents.
And it was being parroted by media you knew that was disinfo.
Yeah, so I knew it was disinformation, yes.
And, of course, the way that works is Mr. Al-Fayed would go big with those documents, and then, of course, they would turn around and be able to say the documents were very clearly forgeries.
And, of course, then people think that the whole conspiracy is a lie, basically, and is all an invention, a fabrication.
That's the way that works.
But that didn't work, did it?
Well, it didn't work because I was able to come in with my expertise and say to Mr. Al-Fayed, these documents are forgeries.
You're being set up.
Now the interesting thing about Oswald Lewinter, who tried to sell these documents to him, was that I'd come across him putting out misinformation about the Lockerbie case, would you believe?
I worked on Lockerbie, and in fact MI6 were trying to put out misinformation to blame Iran for Lockerbie rather than Libya.
So the same characters over and over again?
Same characters over and over again, yeah.
I mean, I've taken a look at the evidence around the Princess Diana case, and again, there's so much convincing stuff about cars being switched at the last minute, Armory Paul being paid £75,000.
The camera's being turned off an hour plus to get her to the hospital.
She said, Charles has told me he's going to kill me in a fake auto accident.
Exactly, yeah.
At least at the moment, although it's very, very belated.
The police in Britain are now starting to investigate this.
But, again, the problem is this investigation is taking place eight years after the events happened.
Why do you believe that, I mean, clearly the evidence is they killed her.
Why do you think she was killed?
Well, I believe there could be a number of reasons, not least because the British royal family could not stand the idea of the mother of the future king of England being married to or having the child
Of a Muslim, because, I mean, the British royal family are quite racist and so on, and I don't think they were prepared to accept that.
There are other reasons as well.
I mean, there are theories that, in fact, Prince William is not the son of Prince Charles, and that, of course, she knew this.
And there was a case of a bodyguard to Princess Diana called Barry Manachie, who was alleged to be certainly having an affair with the princess, who died in very suspicious circumstances as well, in a car accident.
And there was also, in this particular accident, the mention of a blinding flashing light again, as happened in the case of Princess Diana.
And as we also know, Richard Tomlinson, the former MI6 officer, gave evidence to the French judge, saying that MI6 were going to use that technique against Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia.
Yeah, hit the drivers with a blinding burst.
Yeah, the Russians used that to blind some of our sailors on a ship.
Lazing them.
Now, let's get into 9-11, because I talked to you last week on the phone, and you had some comments about 9-11 from your expertise, being inside MI5.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, when I first started to follow 9-11 in the papers, I was very worried by certain reports emerging.
Like, for example, obviously, normally, post-incident, there's a forensic investigation of a site.
It is, in fact, a criminal offense to interfere
With a crime scene.
And yet, in the case of 9-11, all the metal from the buildings is shipped out to China.
There are no forensications done on that metal.
Now that to me...
Now the majority of Americans in polls, upwards of 90% of the CNN poll, believe government had prior knowledge and consciously failed to act.
I've done my own polls.
It looks like the majority of people believe there was government, that is, i.e.
intelligence agency involvement.
We certainly have the motive.
I mean, the more I look at it, you realize that it's not incompetent.
You realize that there are FBI officers all over the country.
Colin Rowley is obviously the one who managed to get a congressional hearing.
You know, you talked about how you were threatened with arrest and then arrested twice for trying to defend your country from government terrorists and government funding of terrorists.
But I have the press conference in 2002 with FBI agent Robert Wright, with David Shippers, the impeachment lawyer, and Judicial Watch.
They all held up letters.
They were threatened with arrest if they told the people what they knew.
But luckily, they'd already been on this broadcast months and months before they were blocked and said, we were ordered specifically not to stop Al-Qaeda.
So, I mean, the government must be desperate.
Our own government's threatening to arrest people now.
Well, exactly.
I mean, this is the way the world's going at the moment, isn't it?
I mean, people who want to tell the truth
It's like the Soviet Union.
You have to face house arrest, you have to face imprisonment possibly, or them carrying out invasive investigations which involve looking at your bank accounts or messing around with your bank accounts and so on.
Without something else, I know the services do as well as they make illegal financial inquiries in Britain.
In the case of the Guardian journalist I was telling you about, they access their bank accounts without getting a court order.
And that again is a crime in this country.
Well, it's unbelievable.
Any other points you want to make on 9-11 before we go to these calls?
Yeah, I mean, there are so many questions to be answered.
Protocols being overridden in national defense.
People actively being stopped from carrying out investigations.
This wasn't an accident.
They were aware.
There was intelligence indicating there were those kind of attacks.
There were FBI intercepts saying it in the days before the attacks.
I can tell you.
When you look at it all, that is a big, big intelligence picture.
And yet these people were crucially stopped from doing their job, stopped from trying to protect the American people.
So you're looking at a situation in which you almost have a coup d'etat because you've got to bear in mind there were weapons discovered on planes that didn't take off on 9-11.
Now, it's just been obviously postulated that they were going to attack perhaps the White House, Capitol Hill.
That looks to me like an attempt to destroy American governments
No, I agree, and it was good agents that the internal criminal cabal didn't control that actually frustrated, it looks like a general from all the evidence we had, disregarded orders to stand down and shot down Flight 93 headed towards the Capitol for total decapitation of the government.
Well, exactly, yeah, yeah.
I mean, there are so, so many questions about this.
You know, I mean, and you realize again that none of the inquiries ever get to the bottom of any of these things.
They don't take all the evidence.
They don't often take evidence under oath when they should be taking it under oath.
But then we look at the motive of MI5, the former MI5 officer, David Shaler.
We have the invasion of Iraq.
We have PNAC saying we want to invade the world.
We need helpful terrorist attacks.
I mean, that's written by Dick Cheney.
They actually specifically talked about a new Pearl Harbor, didn't they, with a parallel to the Second World War in
You notice they managed to invade Afghanistan very shortly after 9-11.
Well, they had 16,000 British troops, 44,000 U.S.
troops already ready to launch there outside the country, and Bush had the launch orders on his desk the day before.
Well, exactly, yeah.
And I say, you know, this whole thing, they're just looking for a... They made it happen to create a trigger to allow the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq,
That's it.
And of course, what they're trying now is to do the same thing with Iran and with Syria.
Stay there, sir.
We're going to come back and take some calls.
David Shaler is our guest.
Stay with us.
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We're good to go.
We're good to go.
Well, it's clear.
We've got to get former MI5 officer David Shaler back on.
Take a few calls here and wrap up this hour.
David, can I get you back on sometime via a landline from your home or something?
Yeah, no problem.
No problem at all.
I'd like to get you back on in the next few weeks because you're just a well head of knowledge and information for us.
We appreciate, number one, your incredible courage in going public in what you've done and people want to learn the truth.
They should get the book, Spies, Lies, and Whistleblowers.
Spies, Lies, and Whistleblowers.
By another MI5 agent that you've worked with.
But right now, let's go ahead and talk to KC in Minnesota.
You're on the air with our guest.
Go ahead.
Hi, Alex.
I just had a couple questions, one for David and one for yourself.
Okay, go ahead.
David, I was very curious to know whether, first and foremost, whether or not the average British person's public opinion or the public opinion in Britain is
Does reflect the corruption of government.
Eighty percent of people believe they killed Diana.
Go ahead, sir.
Eighty-eight percent?
Yeah, I mean, this is the problem in Britain is the mainstream media is very loathe to cover these issues.
But the people of Britain can see through that.
They're now accessing the web and they are sharing this information and there is enormous concern about these things in this country.
But we are, in some ways, powerless to be able to do anything about it.
We just recently had a general election and
Yeah, the Labor and the Tories may have little fights over petty issues, but when it comes down to the brass tacks, they're in agreement.
Yeah, I mean, Michael Howard supported the invasion of Iraq, even though many of us in this country are trying to get Tony Blair...
Put on trial in front of the International Criminal Court because what he did was clearly a war crime.
Oh, that's another question I had.
They've got the Downing Street memos and they're saying, oh, something might be fake.
This is classic where all this is admitted, the lies, the premeditated nature, but then they might bring in some fake document.
Well, that's the problem, but I mean, there's a clear case against Tony Blair and I think that perhaps when he resigns as Prime Minister, the International Criminal Court will go after him because
Fred, anything else?
Yes, Alex, it's Casey.
I have one other question for yourself.
Say it real fast.
At any point in time in the future, are you willing to make available to your subscribers the source code to your news articles so that we can reproduce it upon the website?
The source code.
Yeah, thanks for the call.
I don't really understand that.
Anybody can go to the website and get articles and stuff.
I don't really understand that, but thank you, Casey.
Fred is next.
That's why I was saying Fred.
Trying to get everybody in here.
Fred in Philadelphia.
Go ahead, Fred.
Hi, Alex.
I want to briefly bring up the Israeli plan for targeted killings.
On countries around the world.
Well, you know, David mentioned the documents he's seen showing Israeli involvement in bombing their own embassy.
And, yeah, they told UPI that Sharon will target Americans here without judge or jury and kill us.
And Bush had no comment on that.
David, comments on that?
Well, the Israeli Sharon already has a record of being part of the storm gang who carried out attacks against British troops when British troops were still in the area about, I think, 30 years ago.
So there's already a record of Sharon being involved in terrorism, and it doesn't surprise me if he uses terrorism again.
In the case I was talking about, it's quite clear to me that the Israelis bombed their own embassy, and of course they then framed two innocent Palestinians who have now done ten years in prison for crimes they didn't commit.
And it wasn't, like I say, that it didn't become public very quickly, but there are other documents available indicating their innocence.
Okay, thank you for the call, Fred.
I've got two more calls for you, David.
If you can do five more minutes.
If you can't do it and got to go into a meeting, I understand.
You want to stay or go?
No problem.
I'll take the call.
No problem.
Okay, five more minutes, and then in about three or four minutes, John, call Professor Griffin.
We'll get him on at the five after.
All right, third hour coming at you absolutely, totally jam-packed.
Stay with us.
Copies of the preceding broadcast are available at GCNlive.com or call toll-free 877-376-45.
Big Brother.
Mainstream Media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
We have a giant archive on David Shaler, former MI5 agent.
And other links to government-sponsored terrorism by the British government on prisonplanet.com and infowars.com.
Putin was caught planting bombs in a fourth building to blame it on his enemies.
That is a pretext for control.
Our government's clearly behind it.
Hitler blew up his own Reichstag, firebombed it.
The USS Liberty was attacked by our government in Israel as a pretext to attack Egypt.
Over and over again, Gulf of Tonkin never happened.
Who has the motive in all of this terrorism?
Professor David Ray Griffin will be joining us.
Come on up.
And we'll continue with your phone calls.
But right now, a few minutes left with David Shaler.
MI5, let's talk to Emmett in Pennsylvania.
Emmett, you're on the air with David Shaler.
Go ahead.
Thank you, Alex.
I wonder if David Shaler has any insight on the John F. Kennedy assassination.
Nothing other than I've actually read in the media, basically.
Yeah, I mean, he's talking about cases he's worked, sir.
Or cases he specifically knows about through MI5, MI6 connections.
Go ahead.
Okay, is this Larry Silverstein, the owner of Building 7?
Is he going to spend any time in jail or prison?
Well, for those that don't know, he owned the entire complex, but owned Building 7 for like 10 years before that.
And he says that they blew up Building 7, and he will not respond.
The media phone calls...
Yeah, I mean, I know that's a matter of public record, because I've seen the footage of him saying so, and I think what he's trying to do now is deny that the word poll meant to demolish the building, which, again, is just ludicrous.
Oh, there isn't... Wait, wait, wait.
There is a denial by him out there?
Well, what I've heard is he's now said that... He's admitted to saying that they pulled the building, but he's now tried to deny that the word pull in that context is demolished.
Where did you see that?
I got that off...
I think one of the 911 sites, I think it was 1.org or... Yeah, I think through surrogates, like Popular Mechanics, they may have said that, but I've never gotten a statement from him.
We'd love to have him on here.
Please continue, sir.
Yeah, I mean, I've obviously seen the results of terrorist explosions and so on.
And, you know, no terrorist explosion has ever brought down a building.
I mean, when the IRA put something like a thousand tons of homemade explosive in front of the Baltic Exchange building in Bishopsgate and let off the bomb, of course all the glass came out and the building shook a bit, but there was no question of that building falling down.
And it's just, it doesn't abode a lot of physics for buildings to fall down
Well, what about the Madrid?
Well, exactly, exactly.
What I find very suspicious is that, obviously, after 9-11, there were certain firemen who actually managed to escape who were talking about
And I've talked to them and they've been told to shut up, David.
It was unbelievable.
David Shaler, anything else you want to say in closing?
Thank you very much for having me on the program.
I obviously lead a very difficult life because I'm persecuted by the British government who have tried to blacklist me and stop me from earning a living.
So if people could buy my book, I'd be very grateful because it means that I can carry on the good fight.
Well, David, absolutely.
Spies, Lies and Whistleblowers, available through the Amazon.com or Amazon UK.
Be sure and get it, folks.
David, thank you for coming on.
Thank you very much, Alex.
Take care.
And get martial law.
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Get it out to people so they learn the truth.
Who's behind the chair?
Well, another whistleblower served up for you from inside MI5.
We'll be back with Professor David Ray Griffin and your calls and a ton of news on the other side, prisonplanet.tv.
Hey folks, Alex Jones here.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
All right, we've got about 50 minutes of broadcast left, and about 40 of that...
Of that 40, or 50 minutes of broadcast, about 40 minutes of it will be time that we have with our guest.
Again, we're into the third hour, 8 minutes and 25 seconds into the third hour of this Monday, June 20th, 2005 edition.
I wanted to get into Rush Limbaugh saying that there's no torture going on and they're having a great time at Guantanamo Bay.
It's like he said, it's a great time at Gitmo.
We've written a detailed article...
We're good to go.
Emeritus from Claremont University, also holds several other degrees and taught several other places, very prominent individual, written two books that have been selling quite nicely, one of them, The New Pearl Harbor, and of course the new Omissions and Deceptions report.
He's got a new report out detailing hundreds of their lies since the last time he was on with us a few months ago.
I got him on because I know he was probably frustrated last Thursday night
We're good to go.
I think?
He tried to get his information out, so he can go over some of the points he was unable to discuss.
We are here, joined by David Ray Griffin.
David, we just had David Shiler on, the MI5 whistleblower, exposing government-sponsored terror, and he agrees that 9-11 looks like an inside job, so it seems like anybody and everybody who's got two brain cells rubbed together agrees with us.
Well, we're not quite there yet, but certainly it looks like things are changing at least a little bit more than they were just a few months ago.
Well, preceding us Thursday night, they had Mr. Reynolds on, the former high-level Bush advisor.
Yeah, it's quite interesting that if somebody who can be portrayed as an insider...
Says something why a little bit of the world pays attention.
So at least the UPI and the Washington Times picked this up, and also an organization, MER, Middle East Review, said on the basis of Reynolds' article, they were now calling for a full-scale media investigation.
So it's got the potential...
To be a kind of breakthrough article.
I mean, it's very different than the Downing Street memo, of course, but coming at about the same time, it might turn out to have a similar effect.
Well, we've shot down so many of their walls and defenses and prepared the ground that as more people defect, the globalists are going to have a problem.
It is going to get harder and harder, and with the polls down for approval in Iraq, they're going to have to work harder to sell that story, and maybe a few of the news people now will start to become a little more skeptical and actually maybe ask a follow-up question, like when Bush and Blair were being interviewed about the Downing Street Memo,
I mean, you've got it there in black and white that, according to the head of British intelligence, the people in Washington, and he had been talking to George Tenet, said the intelligence was being fixed around the policy, that is, the policy of going to war with Iraq.
And they asked, one fellow finally asked Bush and Blair about that, and they both just said, you know, Bush said, nothing could be further from the truth, and Blair said,
Oh no, the intelligence was not being fixed around policy.
In other words, both of them just said, black is white.
And that was it.
The news people didn't pick that up.
But maybe now, as the war gets increasingly unpopular, maybe they'll get emboldened, and maybe that increased boldness will spill over into 9-11.
I mean, I'm not holding my breath yet, but I think it's at least possible.
Well, 9-11 is the foundational event, as you and others have said, and this is what they're building their whole house of cards on.
It is a sandy area.
They've decided to construct their additional trods on.
The problem is that when you've got all the official Air National Guard documents that come out, the official ones, not debatable, saying Bush went AWOLed,
They then bring out a fake one.
That gets picked up.
Then they discredit the whole thing in the people's minds.
They do the same thing on 9-11, focusing on the cookie stuff and debunking straw men they build.
And also, I'm sure you've heard now, they're claiming one of the seven documents that's been released around Downing Street may be fake.
So it's admitted Downing Street's real.
I mean, we have all these admissions.
But then they, it looks like, are sneaking more fake documents in to then discredit those and thus try to discredit the whole argument.
That would seem to be a quite strong possibility.
You know, to refer to the debate the other night and connect it to the point you just made about the difficulty of making the case, when people really, if they will start really looking at the official story and the lengths to which people have to go to defend it,
Then it becomes apparent rather quickly that either the people who are defending it don't know what they're talking about or they're saying things that are patently false.
Let's take two examples of things said by my friend Peter Lanz the other night.
He claimed that it would be ridiculous to think that people could have got into the World Trade Center to...
Wire the buildings, or then in the last minutes, the last weeks, fix the explosives, because John O'Neill was in charge of security for the World Trade Center.
His first day at work was September 11th, and I never got to say that.
And I didn't either, you know.
We were near the end of the program, and you always have to take the choice.
Do you want to
Bring up the point you want to bring up, which is new information, or do you want to rebut what somebody else says and then they're going to jump back in and you lose your time?
Well, you know, I wrote a note on that and then forgot to ever get back to it because he'd throw out so much.
And then he said, oh, they clearly blew up seven, but that's no big deal.
Here, let's just move on.
Yeah, so to say that John O'Neill on the first day of work could have retroactively prevented...
So, I mean, here's a case where Peter is a very bright guy and has done a lot of research related to 9-11, but he simply didn't know that that was the first day of work.
And so that's the kind of response you get.
What about how he laughed at shadow government?
I mean, everybody admits they're constructing a system to take over the government.
They passed the doomsday bill in January.
I mean, this is obvious.
Yeah, well, you know, everybody, we're all human, and we all get attached to our own theories, and we don't want a theory that's going to reduce the importance of our theory.
But you said something that was key.
You look at the continuum of data.
That's what I do.
I look at all of it together, and if any of it disproves what I'm saying, I'm wrong.
But unfortunately, David, nothing disproves what I say.
It only reaffirms it.
Yeah, let's take the other example then that Peter Lance used.
He just accepted this preliminary NIST report, the report by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, that said, well, the towers would have come down, obviously, because the
When the airplanes hit, they would have knocked the fireproofing off of the steel.
He also called it flimsy light steel.
Yeah, and, you know, that is just so preposterous.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
Because steel still doesn't melt at 1,800 degrees.
That's right, and so I wanted to ask Peter, you know, if we'd had time, I wanted to say, well, you know,
If you've got a steel grate in your fireplace and you're burning logs in there, why, you better get some fireproofing on that steel or, you know, it's going to melt.
And, you know, it's so obvious to us that steel does not melt from ordinary hydrocarbon fires, and yet if NIST comes out and says, well, that's what happened, the fireproofing got knocked off, and therefore, you know, that's such an enormous therefore when you think about the...
You know, the miles of steel that were in that building, and steel is an excellent conductor of energy, and these were huge steel columns up the middle and also pretty big steel beams horizontally.
Now, there were some trusses, too, but there were steel beams.
Yeah, they focused on the small trusses as if that has anything to do with the main superstructure.
Yeah, and also...
You know, the idea that those rather small fires that in Tower No.
2, the South Tower, had been burning only 56 minutes because we've had, as you've talked about on your show many times, you've had all these fires like the Philadelphia Fire of 91 and the Madrid Fire of this year.
Where the fire was really raging throughout most of the building, and Philadelphia, I believe, was 19 hours, and still the building did not collapse.
It, you know, maybe a little of the steel might have sagged a little.
I'm not even sure of that.
Well, Madrid building was having work done on it, so it had fluting and openings, so it got even hotter.
The entire thing burning like a Roman candle.
Literally, I've got the reports, 100-foot white flames.
Now, what's hotter, 100-foot white flames or tiny, smoldering red-black fires?
Red-black fires, yeah.
But it just shows the... Professor, what's hotter, red flame or white flame?
Well, white would be hotter, yeah.
You know, you need this acetylene torch where you get a high mixture of oxygen to produce fires that are hot enough to begin to make steel melt.
But it just shows the power of the will to believe.
If you want to believe something, you will grasp that straw and find them credible.
Well, isn't the official story almost like a religion?
Well, I think that's a good analogy because, you know, people think of, when they think of the will to believe, they think of religious dogma.
We'll be right back, Professor.
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There's another Mark Twain quote I saw at macwhite.com.
I'm paraphrasing.
But a conspiracy is just two or more people getting together to engage in some activity that they don't want anybody else to know about.
I mean, that's just business strategies, anything.
You can call anything a conspiracy, but who has the motive for 9-11?
David, we've got about 35 minutes or so left here.
Later, I want to take a few calls, but that's near the end.
I know there's probably a lot you want to talk about, Professor David Ray Griffin, but briefly back to that debate.
It would blow me away.
They play a clip.
Well, yeah, I mean, there were many bizarre elements.
It's, as I say, it's back to the, I think, the issue of the will to believe and also people get their own pet theories.
So, like for Peter, it's very important.
He's put a lot of work, you know, years researching Al-Qaeda.
So the thought that Al-Qaeda isn't as important as he thought it is, you know, would be a very frightening thought.
And likewise, Mike Levine has his own theories that...
About how it's always government incompetence, and certainly there's an enormous amount of competence in the government, as there is in everything.
You know, I've been on faculties, and if you've been in a faculty meeting, you learn about incompetence from otherwise very bright people.
So there's incompetence all around, but to say that, to turn that into a universal
And say there are no genuine conspiracies by the government because these people are too incompetent.
Well, that's a gross generalization and confuses people at a certain level with other people.
The people who would have planned this would have been, in terms of operations, you'd be talking about the people at the Pentagon.
You'd be talking about perhaps very high-level people in intelligence agencies.
And also these private groups, the defense contractors themselves, that carry out a lot of operations on their own.
Yeah, and there are lots of things that go off pretty well.
Like, I mean, if we talk about the attack, the initial attack on Iraq...
You know, that was a well-done operation.
Yeah, we got people that put space shuttles into space.
We got people that create fission-fusion bombs.
We got people making X-ray lasers.
So I guess they're just all a bunch of incompetent, drooling idiots.
You know, Professor, going back three and a half years ago, you were a kook if you said prior knowledge.
Now everyone admits prior knowledge and that they, quote, funded the terrorists, but it was all on accident.
So the mere fact that we push them, even those that we debate, to, oh, it's incompetence, shows who's winning the fight for the minds and hearts of people.
Well, I hope so.
Let me move to this question that you brought up of conspiracy theories, because that's still the bugaboo, you know, that...
People simply are frightened with being associated with the conspiracy theory.
They've drummed that into the American mind so thoroughly that conspiracy theories are all, you know, kooky.
But the issue is, you know, you've got in science, you've got all sorts of theories.
You know, plate tectonics was originally a far-out theory under the name of continental shift.
And now everything that's done in terms of earthquake predictions and so on is based on plate tectonics.
When Einstein developed his theory of relativity, why, that was just thought, you know, impossible.
And on down the way, of course you've had a lot of theories that have been disconfirmed.
So that shows you can't just say because something's a theory,
You know, either accept it or reject it.
You have to look at each one in terms of its own merit.
But as we study 9-11, you'd have to be a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist believing in things that the evidence doesn't show if you think the official story's true.
Yeah, so let's... Why don't we look at the collapse of the buildings and just to illustrate that.
Do I still have a couple minutes?
Oh, we've got plenty of time after this quick break.
Long segment coming up.
Yeah, I mean, let's look at...
Their official story is the wildest of all.
It's like saying that flies in my backyard are going to build a spaceship and fly to Mars.
Or we have the theory that could NASA do it?
What's more probable?
The official story is absolutely ridiculous.
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Folks, reality is not inside your head.
Reality is outside of your body.
And, of course, in your body to a certain extent, your physical health.
What you believe doesn't necessarily make it so.
And so people say, well, how dare you change my reality on 9-11?
I don't want to believe it.
Well, regardless of what you believe, the facts are still the facts.
Let me just say this before we go to Devin Ray Griffin, and then we'll go to your calls after he has some more time to go over the evidence.
You know that somebody on a dialysis machine in a cave didn't have NORAD stand down, didn't do war games of flying planes in the buildings that morning.
Didn't do CIA insider trading.
Didn't call Mayor Willie Brown and tell him not to fly and Ashcroft and everybody else.
You know it didn't cause the NORAD to sit there with the planes for over an hour and do nothing.
You know it didn't make Building 7 fall.
You know that.
And the people who were debating, one of them, Lance, goes, well, there was a Muslim guy who might have been in Building 7 beforehand.
As if he went in there and planted something.
I mean, it's crazy.
You know, like a guy with a satchel went and brought down the building.
Learn the truth.
Face the facts.
There's no debating it.
All the evidence points toward David Ray Griffin's fourth scenario, government total involvement.
That is a criminal element within the government.
That doesn't mean your mailman was involved, or the cop was involved, or your cousin whose FBI was involved.
You know, I love this argument of, my brother's FBI.
He wouldn't do that.
Of course he wouldn't.
It's called covert action.
It's called compartmentalization.
This is what they do.
The CIA admits to hundreds of bombings all over the world to blame it on people.
I have official government documents for 9-11.
I have official government documents for Operation Gladio.
I have official government documents where they carried attacks out.
Do you understand?
That's the number one piece of evidence.
Number two?
Is the motive.
And then we say, well, we don't want to believe this.
Let's look at the evidence.
And then you look at the evidence.
Only one country, and other governments have looked at this, only one country, forget somebody in a cave, only one country could pull this off in America.
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David Ray Griffin, before we get into the collapse of the buildings, which my audience knows all about, and before we get into a few other questions I've got for you before calls, tell us about your two great books.
Well, the first book, The New Pearl Harbor, Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration in 9-11,
Was simply a summary, for the most part, of the work that people such as you and many others who got in far before I did had already done.
And I just saw a need to put it together in some sort of organized and fairly compact and readable form.
And you don't draw conclusions.
You go, here's the facts.
Yeah, I certainly draw the conclusion that there is an enormous amount of...
But they've never lied to us.
But in that book, I simply was calling for a real investigation.
Now, remember that I was writing that book before the 9-11 report had...
And now for 10 months we've had this travesty.
Yeah, but then when I saw the 9-11 report, and I knew, by the way, that the 9-11 Commission had seen my book, because many people had sent it to them.
It even happened that at my school's bookstore,
Some people came in and said, well, we work for the 9-11 Commission and we're looking for copies of David Griffin's book.
Well, they've been questioned about it.
One of them, I think Hamilton, admitted he's heard of it.
Yeah, well, actually, a nun friend of his, an old-time friend, called him up and said, Lee, we've got a book here you and your colleagues need to read, and a colleague of mine is going to fly it on a red-eye tonight to...
And bring it to your office.
So he knew it was coming, and this colleague did indeed take 12 copies to the commission and put them in Hamilton's office, gave them to his secretary, and said these are for the commission.
And that's a whole other discussion, what the commission did.
In fact, as an addendum to your new book, the 9-11 Omissions and Deceptions Report, but also you've written another addendum to that, right?
Well, I've written a little article in which I've summarized, because people had asked me, well, you know, you say the 9-11 Commission report, omissions and distortions, well, how many, assuming that the omissions, you know, that's one kind of lie, lies of omission and then lies of distortion, how many lies did you find?
And I, well, I don't know, there are a whole bunch that I went through and
Worked it out and summarized them, and I had identified 115 things that I thought were lies.
And give folks the title of that article so they can Google it.
Yeah, it's just called the 9-11 Commission Report, a 571-page lie.
Okay, and people can find your two books in most bookstores or at Amazon.com or through your publisher.
Give us the publisher, and then I want to get into some more discussion because we're almost out of time.
Yeah, the Interlink Books is the publisher.
It's excellent.
I've read the first one, gotten the second one, scanned through it.
It's very accurate.
But now, during the break, I said, hey, I want you to answer this question.
Clearly, you believe it's number four, total complicity involved, and all the evidence goes that direction, but why did these controllers think they would get away with this?
I mean, let's try to war game their mindset.
I mean, we know Brzezinski, we know that Cheney, we know others said we need this attack, but why did they think they could get away with something like this?
Well, I think maybe three major factors, at least.
One is simply that they...
They know that the major media favor, in general, the expansion of the American Empire.
Do you think they were underestimating the burgeoning alternative media?
Well, I don't know, but it does remain a fact that it's still only a fairly small percentage of the people who know about this, and even though it's a growing minority,
It's hard for this to get traction because there's no public forum for these things to be discussed.
Like, we can't get on Fox News and communicate with millions of Americans, tens of millions of Americans simultaneously.
So that's one factor.
I think they knew that the major media would, for the most part, simply parrot the official story and ridicule
The any conspiracy theory that developed.
Likewise, a factor in this is that they knew that from previous experience this would be the case.
So if you look at the Kennedy assassination, for example.
Even though now the proof is in.
I mean, we're talking about absolute proof.
Eyewitnesses, people that were, yeah, they said they did it.
Yeah, well, yeah, and it's just so extensive.
The medical evidence and all of this, you know, it's summarized in recent books edited by James Fetzer.
Well, I mean, I've even had the press secretary's father, the personal lawyer of LBJ on it.
That's right.
But still, you don't get any discussion of this in the media these many decades later.
So they still ridicule the Grassy Noel crowd, anybody who rejects the Warren Commission and thinks there were shooters and the Grassy Noel, even though it's absolutely proved now that there were.
So I think it's the past history of the media, plus the fact that...
That they have people at certain levels in the media who will stop certain stories from going forward.
David Schindler in my five called them agents of influence.
I mean, intelligence officers are everywhere in the media.
And I think a third factor then is the phenomenon of the big lie.
That it's such a big operation and such a big lie that for many people that just settles it a priori because
You know, of course, that was a Nazi theory, that if you tell people a really big lie, it's just so big they say it can't possibly be true.
They wouldn't think of doing such a thing.
And so they could count on an enormous crime.
You know, when I was that way the first year and a half, I would hear these rumors that the government did it, and I would think, well, even the Bush administration wouldn't do this.
And, you know, I knew about Pearl Harbor.
I knew about Kennedy.
So that's a really hard barrier to break through.
You know, now that I've broken through, it's frustrating how hard it is to get other people to break through.
But, you know, we have to recognize that is the case.
So I think that is a factor, too.
Well, we've got to think about the people they killed, and they deserve the truth to come out.
Let's get into just three or four of the key things that can be proven are total frauds, and then let's take some calls.
Well, yeah, if we just look, you say your listeners know about it, but let's just summarize that we can take Morgan Reynolds' article in which he summarizes 10 characteristics of controlled demolition, and these collapses have all 10 of them.
So first of all, virtually free fall speed.
That's what controlled demolition does.
And even if fire could bring down a building, it couldn't bring it down in, say, 10 seconds.
It came straight down.
Again, that's the whole purpose of controlled demolition, placing the explosives very precisely
So the buildings don't fall down sideways.
This is rocket science level to be able to have them, like Building 7, fall in a neat pile.
You know, Mark Laroche, the head of Control Demolition, Inc., he has an interview with a recent new scientist in which he describes how he goes in and he studies it for months on end and is very careful, you know, and then has films of it to make sure that everything went off just in the proper order.
Oh, yeah.
So it's a very precise science.
And you can't, you know, even if you could bring down a building with fire, you could not count on it coming straight down.
Well, a lot of times these companies plan it for months, and still it doesn't fall exactly right.
That's right.
A third factor, the concrete was pulverized into tiny, very tiny dust particles.
And Jim Hoffman has done an analysis of the amount of energy this would take.
And he's shown that it would take at least a hundred times the amount of energy that gravity could have provided.
And yet the official story is that gravity brought the buildings down once the fire weakened them.
And they just ignore the fact that there was not anywhere close to the amount of energy that would have required to pulverize the concrete.
And then fourth, the
The debris, not only this dust from the pulverized concrete, but steel and aluminum pieces were blown out from the building several hundred feet.
Again, that takes enormous energy.
Neatly cut.
We have the photos.
That's right.
And that's the fifth factor, that the massive columns and beams...
Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.
And then the total collapse of the building, the thing that I keep coming back to because it's one of the big lies of the 9-11 Commission Report, I think I said this before on your show, but it bears repeating, that those 47 massive columns that constituted the core, the inner core of each tower,
Even if one could bring themselves to believe the pancake theory that the floors pancake down, you still would have had those sticking a thousand feet up in the air.
But the report doesn't mention them.
Those didn't exist.
The report says that the core of each of the towers consisted of a hollow steel shaft.
So that is the most enormous lie that one could tell about the nature of the World Trade Center towers.
Because that was the feature.
When you see pictures of them going up, you see those towers, those columns sticking way up above the part of the building that has already been constructed.
But not here.
They just get blasted off in these little sections.
And so the buildings collapsed then into a pile of rubble about three stories high.
So all those columns had to be severed.
And as if fire and gravity could do that.
So, as you say, the official story, if anybody will look at it precisely, is just absolutely ludicrous.
When one talks about probability theory... And then we have Larry Silverstein saying we pulled it, refusing to answer questions, and then we have reporters being told, get back, we're going to pull it.
So, yeah, with Building 7, and then you look at, as I point out in the book, my second book, if you examine the collapses of buildings...
And again, with their theory, if you can disprove any part of it, the whole thing falls.
And we can disprove every part of it.
It would take hours to do it.
You've done it.
I've done it.
Let's take a call.
I appreciate folks holding so long.
We'll go to Tim, David, and
Diana, or Dana, excuse me, and then Mike, that's it for calls.
Go ahead, you're on the air, Tim.
Good afternoon, Alex.
Yes, go ahead.
Hello, David.
I was going to say, you mentioned it's only conspiracy theories if you haven't researched this subject, and it was quite obvious during the debate, Bravo, by the way, you two gentlemen, it's quite obvious who Peter Lance is working for.
Well, I don't know that we can conclude that.
I don't ever like to impugn anyone's
Yeah, regardless of what Peter Lance was up to, the former Nightline producer, we just know he's wrong.
You had mentioned earlier, or you had touched on it, and that's the theory of cognitive dissonance, where people reject the information that's not in line with their previous thoughts or actions.
Yeah, denial's not a river.
That's one of those biggest hurdles I think we're facing in this 9-11 thing, and my question to both gentlemen is, what
Is it going to take... I mean, I'd hate to see this backfire in our faces, because we all want the truth to come out, and we all want these perpetrators to end up in prison, but what's going to happen to the leadership of this country in the interim, and how are we going to prevent the United Nations from trying to come in and take over?
All right, thanks for the call, Professor.
Well, I mean, I don't think there's any problem with the United Nations.
I mean, it was created to be completely impotent...
Stay there, we've got a break.
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Rush Limbaugh plumps new depths of perversion, releases Gitmo t-shirt line.
Very important article.
Also one about how they're trying to discredit the Downing Street memo.
Classic Karl Rovian or MI6 type activities.
We've got to get Professor Griffin on for two hours sometime.
There's just an hour is not enough with the breaks and things.
I want to jam a few more calls in here from David and Mike and Dana.
But real fast, Professor, finish up what you were saying about the last caller.
Yeah, I was just going to say, I think he makes a good point that I think many people who know the official story is wrong and that our government was complicit say, look,
If we expose that, that's going to bring down the whole government.
We're going to be in chaos.
The economy will crash.
Give our so-called enemies a chance and all that.
I think that fear is another factor that the government, the forces who did this,
Thought they could count on.
Yeah, I've talked to a lot of people who go, look, I know it's true, but it's the system, and leave it alone.
Yeah, because, you know, revealing the truth would cause more harm than letting it go and letting the guys get away with it.
But that's not true.
I mean, we're dealing with cold-blooded killers.
They're going to keep doing this.
Yeah, and when we're talking about the future of the world, because, I mean, this is the larger context we need to consider, that the project for global domination is not just dominating all
It's us domestically.
No, you're right.
No, you're absolutely right.
I mean, the studies indicate that global warming, if it is not slowed down enormously, I mean, we're talking about
90% reduction by the... I agree with you on environmental crises, genetic engineering, but that's a whole... We've got to get you back up, Professor.
Let's take a couple final calls real fast.
Mike in Tennessee is a field worker.
Real fast, go ahead.
Yes, Alex.
I just wanted to comment on the thickness of those inside columns.
Yes, sir.
I've built buildings with steel that thick many times, 20 years in the business.
I'm a certified welder.
It actually takes a special cutting torch other than an oxygen acetylene to cut steel that thick.
So kerosene burning, which is basically what jet fuel is, their explanation is what made me believe that the whole thing was a sham.
Well, for those that don't know, kerosene burns even lower than gasoline.
You can stick a lit match in it.
Don't try this at home, folks, because if there's any oxygen aerosolized, it will explode.
But you can sit there and literally try to light kerosene on fire.
Explain that to people.
Actually, like I said, it takes accelerated oxygen into it at such a rate that there's no way.
The fluorocarbon fuels burn all the oxygen off, and that takes a lot of the heat out of the fire.
Henceforth, as you said, before you can even start with a cutting torch, you have a blue flame.
As soon as the steel starts to get soft and red,
Then you throw oxygen to it.
When the oxygen hits it, the flame turns white and blows the steel out of the way.
It actually doesn't destroy it.
It just kind of melts it and blows it.
Yeah, so your point is that even just cutting an ordinary piece of steel, you know, maybe an inch thick, would take an acetylene torch.
And these things that are four inches thick would take an enormous amount of energy.
Thank you, Mike.
Dana and Joni and everybody, I'm sorry.
We're out of time.
We'll have to have Professor Griffin back on in the future.
Professor, will you come back on?
Surely, Alex.
All right.
God bless you.
You too.
Take care.
All right.
I'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
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