Air Date: June 20, 2005 585 lines.
Of that 40, or 50 minutes of broadcast, about 40 minutes of it will be time that we have with our guest.
Again, we're into the third hour, 8 minutes and 25 seconds into the third hour of this Monday, June 20th, 2005 edition.
I wanted to get into Rush Limbaugh saying that there's no torture going on, they're having a great time at Guantanamo Bay.
Just like he said, it's a great time at Gitmo.
We've written a detailed article
He's debunking all of this and he's now selling t-shirts about how great this Gulag concentration camp high-tech torture facility is.
Maybe I'll get a comment or two from our guest on that later and a few other news items that tie into this.
He's Professor David Ray Griffin and he's Professor
Emeritus from Claremont University.
Also holds several other degrees and taught several other places.
Very prominent individual.
Written two books that have been selling quite nicely.
One of them, The New Pearl Harbor, and of course the new Omissions and Deceptions report.
He's got a new report out detailing hundreds of their lies since the last time he was on with us a few months ago.
I got him on because I know he was probably frustrated last Thursday night
Friday morning, bearing on coast-to-coast AM with those other two guys, especially Lance, it was amazing.
Though Norrie did a pretty good job, and I appreciate Norrie having the debate, I know that our gentlemanly scholar was not one to behave like a piranha, like I did, and get in there at the feeding trough to expose the New World Order.
But he tried to get his information out, so he can go over some of the points he was unable to discuss.
We are here, joined by David Ray Griffin.
David, we just had David Shiler on, the MI5 whistleblower, exposing government-sponsored terror, and he agrees that 9-11 looks like an inside job, so seems like anybody and everybody who's got two brain cells rubbed together agrees with us.
Well, we're not quite there yet, but certainly it looks like things are changing at least a little bit more than they were just a few months ago.
Well, preceding us Thursday night, they had Mr. Reynolds on, the former high-level Bush advisor.
Yeah, it's quite interesting that if somebody who can be portrayed as an insider
Says something why a little bit of the world pays attention.
So at least the UPI and the Washington Times picked this up and also an organization, MER, Middle East Review, said on the basis of Reynolds' article, they were now calling for a full-scale media investigation.
So it's got the potential
Well, we've shot down so many of their walls and defenses and prepared the ground that as more people defect, the globalists are going to have a problem.
It is going to get harder and harder, and with, you know, the polls down for approval in Iraq, they're going to have to work harder to sell that story, and maybe a few of the news people now will start to become a little more skeptical and actually maybe ask a follow-up question, like when Bush and Blair were being interviewed about the Downing Street memo,
I mean, you've got it there in black and white, that according to the head of British intelligence, the people in Washington, and he had been talking to George Tenet, says the intelligence was being fixed around the policy, that is, the policy of going to war with Iraq.
And one fellow finally asked Bush and Blair about that, and they both just said, you know, Bush said nothing could be further from the truth, and Blair said,
Oh no, the intelligence was not being fixed around policy.
In other words, both of them just said, black is white.
And that was it.
The news people didn't pick that up.
But maybe now, as things get increasingly, the war gets increasingly unpopular, maybe they'll get emboldened, and maybe that increased boldness will spill over into 9-11.
I mean, I'm not holding my breath yet, but I think it's at least possible.
Well, 9-11 is the foundational event, as you and others have said, and this is what they're building their whole house of cards on, and it is a sandy area.
They've decided to construct their additional frauds on.
The problem is, is that when you've got all the official Air National Guard documents that come out, the official ones, not debatable, saying Bush went AWOL,
They then bring out a fake one.
That gets picked up.
Then they discredit the whole thing in the people's minds.
They do the same thing on 9-11, focusing on the kooky stuff and debunking straw men they build.
And also, I'm sure you've heard now, they're claiming one of the seven documents that's been released around Downing Street may be fake.
So it's admitted Downing Street's real.
I mean, we have all these admissions.
But then they, it looks like, are sneaking more fake documents in to then discredit those and thus try to discredit the whole argument.
That would seem to be a quite strong possibility.
You know, to refer to the debate the other night, and connect it to the point you just made about the difficulty of making the case, when people really, if they will start really looking at the official story, and the lengths to which people have to go to defend it,
Then it becomes apparent rather quickly that either the people who are defending it don't know what they're talking about or they're saying things that are patently false.
Let's take two examples of things said by my friend Peter Lantz the other night.
He claimed that it would be ridiculous to think that people could have got into the World Trade Center
To wire the buildings, or then in the last minute, the last week, fix the explosives, because John O'Neill was in charge of security for the World Trade Center.
His first day at work was September 11th, and I never got to say that!
And I didn't either, you know, we were near the end of the program, and you always have to take the choice, do you want to
Bring up the point you want to bring up, which is new information, or do you want to rebut what somebody else says, and then they're going to jump back in and you lose your time.
Well, you know, I wrote a note on that and then forgot to ever get back to it because he'd throw out so much, and then he said, oh, they clearly blew up seven, but that's no big deal.
Here, let's just move on.
Yeah, so to say that John O'Neill on the first day of work could have retroactively prevented... So, I mean, here's a case where Peter is a very bright guy and has done a lot of research related to 9-11, but he simply didn't know
That that was the first day of work.
And so that's the kind of response you get.
What about how he laughed at shadow government?
I mean, everybody admits they're constructing a system to take over the government.
They passed the doomsday bill in January.
I mean, we're I mean, this is obvious.
Yeah, well, you know, everybody we're all human and we all we all get attached to our own theories.
And we don't want a theory that's going to reduce the importance of our theory.
But you said something that was key.
You look at the continuum of data.
That's what I do.
I look at all of it together, and if any of it disproves what I'm saying, I'm wrong.
But unfortunately, David, nothing disproves what I say.
It only reaffirms it.
Yeah, let's take the other example then that Peter Lance used.
He just accepted this preliminary NIST report, the report by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, that said, well, the towers would have come down, obviously, because when the airplanes hit, they would have knocked the fireproofing off of the steel.
He also called it flimsy light steel.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
You know, that is just so preposterous.
Because steel still doesn't melt at 1800 degrees!
And so I wanted to ask, Peter, you know, if we'd had time, I wanted to say, well, you know, if you've got a steel grate in your fireplace and you're burning logs in there, why, you better get some fireproofing on that steel or, you know, it's going to melt.
And, you know, it's so obvious to us that steel does not melt from ordinary hydrocarbon fires.
And yet, if NIST comes out and says, well, that's what happened, the fireproofing got knocked off, and therefore, you know, that's such an enormous therefore, when you think about the, you know, the miles of steel that were in that building, and steel is an excellent conductor of energy, and these were huge steel columns up the middle, and also pretty
Big steel beams horizontally.
Now, there were some trusses, too, but there were steel beams.
Yeah, they focus on the small trusses as if that has anything to do with the main superstructure.
Yeah, and also, you know, the idea that those rather small fires that in Tower No.
2, the South Tower, had been burning only 56 minutes,
Because we've had, as you've talked about on your show many times, you've had all these fires, like the Philadelphia fire of 91, and the Madrid fire of this year, where the fire was really raging throughout most of the building, and Philadelphia, I believe, was 19 hours, and still the building did not collapse.
It, you know, maybe a little of the steel might have sagged a little.
I'm not even sure of that.
Well, Madrid Building was having work done on it, so it had fluting and openings, so it got even hotter.
The entire thing burning like a Roman candle.
Literally, I've got the reports, 100-foot white flames.
Now, what's hotter, 100-foot white flames or tiny, smoldering red-black fires?
Red-black fires, yeah.
But it just shows the power.
Professor, what's hotter, red flame or white flame?
Well, white would be hotter yet, yeah.
You know, you need this acetylene torch where you get a high mixture of oxygen to produce fires that are hot enough to begin to make steel melt.
But it just shows the power of the will to believe.
If you want to believe something, you will grasp at straws and find them credible.
Well, isn't the official story almost like a religion?
Well, I think that's a good analogy because, you know, people think of, when they think of the will to believe, they think of religious dogma.
We'll be right back, Professor.
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Another Mark Twain quote I saw at MacWhite.com, I'm paraphrasing, but a conspiracy is just two or more people getting together to engage in some activity that they don't want anybody else to know about.
That's just business strategies, anything.
You can call anything a conspiracy, but who has the motive for 9-11?
David, we've got about 35 minutes or so left here.
Later, I'm going to take a few calls, but that's near the end.
I know there's probably a lot you want to talk about, Professor David Ray Griffin, but briefly, back to that debate.
It would blow me away.
They play a clip
Of the informants and FBI people arguing about how the government cooked the bomb and was going to let the bombing go forward of the World Trade Center, and then that was their evidence that the government wasn't involved?
I mean, this was really bizarre what we were getting from the people we were debating.
Well, yeah, I mean, there were many bizarre elements.
It's, as I say, it's back to the, I think, the issue of the will to believe, and also people get their own pet theories.
So, like for Peter, it's very important.
He's put a lot of work, you know, years researching Al-Qaeda.
So the thought that Al-Qaeda isn't as important as he thought it is, you know, would be a very frightening thought.
And likewise, Mike Levine has his own theories that
About how it's always government incompetence, and certainly there's an enormous amount of competence in the government, as there is in everything.
You know, I've been on faculties, and if you've been in a faculty meeting, you learn about incompetence from otherwise very bright people.
So there's incompetence all around, but to say that, to turn that into a universal
And say there are no genuine conspiracies by the government because these people are too incompetent.
Well, that's a gross generalization and confuses, you know, people at a certain level with other people.
The people who would have planned this would have been, in terms of operations, you'd be talking about the people at the Pentagon.
You'd be talking about perhaps very high-level people in intelligence agencies.
And also these private groups, the defense contractors themselves that carry out a lot of operations on their own.
Yeah, and there are lots of things that go off pretty well.
Like if we talk about the attack, the initial attack on Iraq,
Uh, you know, that was a well done operation.
Yeah, we got people that put space shuttles into space.
We got people that create fish infusion bombs.
We got people making x-ray lasers.
So I guess they're just all a bunch of incompetent, drooling idiots.
You know, Professor, going back three and a half years ago, you were a kook if you said prior knowledge.
Now, everyone admits prior knowledge, and that they quote, funded the terrorists, but it was all on accident.
So the mere fact that we've pushed them, even those that we debate, to, oh, it's incompetence, shows who's winning the fight for the minds and hearts of people.
Well, I hope so.
Let me move to this question that you brought up of conspiracy theories, because that's still the bugaboo, you know, that
People simply are frightened with being associated with a conspiracy theory.
They've drummed that into the American mind so thoroughly that conspiracy theories are all, you know, kooky.
But the issue is, you know, you've got in science, you've got all sorts of theories.
You know, plate tectonics was originally a far-out theory under the name of continental shift.
And now everything that's done in terms of earthquake predictions and so on is based on plate tectonics.
When Einstein developed his theory of relativity, why, that was just thought, you know, impossible.
And on down the way, of course you've had a lot of theories that have been disconfirmed.
So that shows you can't just say because something's a theory,
Um, you know, either accept it or reject it.
You have to look at each one in terms of its own merits.
But as we study 9-11, you'd have to be a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, you know, believing in things that the evidence doesn't show if you think the official story's true.
Yeah, so let's, uh, why don't we look at the, uh, the collapse of the buildings and just to illustrate that.
Do I still have a couple minutes?
Oh, we've got plenty of time after this quick break.
Long segment coming up.
Yeah, I mean, let's look at
Their official story is the wildest of all.
It's like saying that flies in my backyard are going to build a spaceship and fly to Mars.
Or we have the theory that could NASA do it?
What's more probable?
The official story is absolutely ridiculous.
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Folks, reality is not inside your head.
Reality is outside of your body.
And of course in your body to a certain extent, your physical health.
What you believe doesn't necessarily make it so.
And so people say, well, how dare you, you know, change my reality on 9-11?
I don't want to believe it.
Well, regardless of what you believe, the facts are still the facts.
Let me just say this before we go to David Ray Griffin and then we'll go to your calls after he has some more time to go over the evidence.
You know that somebody on a dialysis machine in a cave didn't have NORAD stand down, didn't do war games of flying planes in the buildings that morning.
Didn't do CIA insider trading.
Didn't call Mayor Willie Brown and tell him not to fly and Ashcroft and everybody else.
You know it didn't cause the NORAD to sit there with the planes for over an hour and do nothing.
You know it didn't make Building 7 fall.
You know that.
And the people we were debating, one of them, Lance, goes, well, there was a Muslim guy who might have been in Building 7 beforehand.
As if he went in there and planted something.
I mean, it's crazy!
Like a guy with a satchel went and brought down the building.
Learn the truth.
Face the facts.
There's no debating it.
All the evidence points toward David Ray Griffin's fourth scenario, government total involvement.
That is a criminal element within the government.
That doesn't mean your mailman was involved, or the cop was involved, or your cousin whose FBI was involved.
You know, I love this argument of my brother's FBI.
He wouldn't do that.
Of course he wouldn't.
It's called covert action.
It's called compartmentalization.
This is what they do.
The CIA admits to hundreds of bombings all over the world to blame it on people.
I have official government documents for 9-11.
I have official government documents for Operation Gladio.
I have official government documents where they carried attacks out.
Do you understand?
That's the number one piece of evidence.
Is the motive.
And then we say, well, we don't want to believe this, let's look at the evidence.
And then you look at the evidence, only one country, and other governments have looked at this, only one country, forget somebody in a cave, only one country could pull this off in America.
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David Ray Griffin, before we get into the collapse of the buildings, which my audience knows all about, and before we get into a few other questions I've got for you before calls, tell us about your two great books.
Well, the first book, The New Pearl Harbor, Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9-11, was simply a summary, for the most part, of the work that people such as you and many others who got in far before I did had already done.
And I just saw a need to put it together in some sort of organized and fairly compact and readable form.
And you don't draw conclusions, you go, here's the facts!
Yeah, I certainly draw the conclusion that there is an enormous amount of prima facie evidence that the official story is wrong, and that if the government is lying about the official story, then
That certainly suggests the government is complicit.
But they've never lied to us!
But in that book I simply was calling for a real investigation.
Remember that I was writing that book before the 9-11 report had come out.
And now for ten months we've had this travesty.
Yeah, but then when I saw the 9-11 report, and I knew by the way that
The 9-11 Commission had seen my book because many people had sent it to him.
It even happened that at my school's bookstore, some people came in and said, well, we work for the 9-11 Commission and we're looking for copies of David Griffin's book.
Well, they've been questioned about it.
One of them, I think, Hamilton, admitted he's heard of it.
Yeah, well, actually, a nun friend of his, an old-time friend, called him up and said,
We've got a book here you and your colleagues need to read and a colleague of mine is going to fly it on a red-eye tonight and bring it to your office.
So he knew it was coming and this colleague did indeed.
Take 12 copies to the Commission and put them in Hamilton's office, gave them to his secretary and said, these are for the Commission.
And that's a whole other discussion, what the Commission did.
In fact, as an addendum to your new book, the 9-11 Omissions and Deceptions Report, but also you've written another addendum to that, right?
Well, I've written a little article in which I've summarized, because people had asked me,
You know, you say the 9-11 Commission Report, omissions and distortions.
Well, how many, assuming that the omissions, you know, that's one kind of lie, lies of omission and then lies of distortion.
How many lies did you find?
And I, well, I don't know.
There are a whole bunch that I went through.
Worked it out and summarized them, and I had identified 115 things that I thought were lies.
And give folks the title of that article so they can Google it.
Yeah, it's just called the 9-11 Commission Report, a 571-page lie.
Okay, and people can find your two books, and most bookstores are at Amazon.com or through your publisher.
Give us the publisher, and then I want to get into some more discussion, because we're almost out of time.
Yeah, the Interlink Books is the publisher.
I've read the first one, gotten the second one, scanned through it.
It's very accurate.
But now, during the break, I said, hey, I want you to answer this question.
Clearly, you believe it's number four, total complicity involved.
All the evidence goes that direction, but why did these controllers think they would get away with this?
I mean, let's try to war game their mindset.
I mean, we know Brzezinski, we know that Cheney, we know others said we need this attack, but why did they think they could get away with something like this?
Well, I think maybe three major factors, at least.
One is simply that they
They know that the major media favor, in general, the expansion of the American empire.
Do you think they were underestimating the margining alternative media?
Well, I don't know, but it does remain a fact that it's still only a fairly small percentage of the people who know about this, and even though it's a growing minority,
It's hard for this to get traction because there's no public forum for these things to be discussed.
Like, we can't get on Fox News and communicate with millions of Americans, tens of millions of Americans simultaneously.
So, that's one factor.
I think they knew that the major media would, for the most part, simply parrot the official story and ridicule
We're good to go.
Even though now, the proof is in.
I mean, we're talking about absolute proof.
Eyewitnesses, people that were, yeah, they said they did it, yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, and it's just so extensive, the medical evidence and all of this, you know, summarized in recent books by, edited by James Fetzer.
Well, I mean, I've even had the press secretary's father, the personal lawyer of LBJ on.
But still, you don't get any discussion of this in the media, you know, these many decades later.
So they still ridicule the Grassy Knoll crowd, you know, anybody who rejects the Warren Commission and thinks there were shooters and the Grassy Knoll, even though it's absolutely proved now that there were.
So I think it's the past history of the media, plus the fact that
That they have people at certain levels in the media who will stop certain stories from going forward.
David Shiler, MI5, called them agents of influence.
I mean, intelligence officers are everywhere in the media.
And I think a third factor then is the phenomenon of the big lie.
That it's such a big operation and such a big lie that for many people that just settles it a priori because
You know, of course, that was a Nazi theory, that if you tell people a really big lie, it's just so big they say it can't possibly be true.
They wouldn't think of doing such a thing.
And so they could count on an enormous crime.
You know, and I was that way the first year and a half.
I would hear these rumors that the government did it, and I would think, well, even the Bush administration wouldn't do this.
And you know, I knew about Pearl Harbor.
I knew about Kennedy.
So, that's a really hard barrier to break through.
You know, now that I've broken through, it's frustrating how hard it is to get other people to break through.
But, you know, we have to recognize that is the case.
So, I think that is a factor, too.
Well, we've got to think about the people they killed, and they deserve the truth to come out.
Let's get into just three or four of the key things that can be proven are total frauds, and then let's take some calls.
Well yeah, if we just look, you say your listeners know about it, but let's just summarize that we can take Morgan Reynolds' article in which he summarizes ten characteristics of controlled demolition, and these collapses have all ten of them.
So first of all, virtually free fall speed, that's what controlled demolition does.
And even if fire could bring down a building, it couldn't bring it down in, say, 10 seconds.
It came straight down.
Again, that's the whole purpose of controlled demolition.
Placing the explosives very precisely.
So the buildings don't fall down sideways.
This is rocket science level to be able to have them, like Building 7, fall in a neat pile.
Oh yeah, you know, Mark Leroux, the head of Control Demolition, Inc., he has an interview with a recent new scientist in which he describes how he goes in and he studies it for months on end and is very careful, you know, and then has films of it to make sure that everything went off just in the proper order.
So it's a very precise science.
And you can't, you know, even if you could bring down a building with fire, you could not count on it coming straight down.
Well, a lot of times these companies plant it for months and still it doesn't fall exactly right.
A third factor, the concrete was pulverized into tiny, very tiny dust particles.
And Jim Hoffman has done an analysis of the amount of energy this would take.
And he's shown that it would take at least a hundred times the amount of energy that gravity could have provided.
And yet the official story is that gravity brought the buildings down once, you know, the fire weakened them.
And they just ignore the fact that there was not anywhere close to the amount of energy that would have required to pulverize the concrete.
And then fourth, the
The debris, not only this dust from the pulverized concrete, but steel and aluminum pieces were blown out from the building several hundred feet.
Again, that takes enormous
Neatly, neatly cut.
We have the photos.
That's right, and that's a fifth factor, that the massive columns and beams were cut.
Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
And then the total collapse of the building, the thing that I keep coming back to because it's one of the big lies of the 9-11 Commission Report.
I think I've said this before on your show, but it bears repeating.
That those 47 massive tower columns that constituted the core, the inner core of each tower, even if one could bring themselves to believe the pancake theory that the floors pancake down, you still would have had those
Sticking a thousand feet up in the air.
But the report doesn't mention them.
Those didn't exist.
The report says that the core of each of the towers consisted of a hollow steel shaft.
So that is the most enormous lie that one could tell about the nature of the World Trade Center towers.
Because that was the feature.
When you see pictures of them going up,
You see those towers, those columns, sticking way up above the part of the building that has already been constructed.
But not here!
They just get blasted off in these little sections!
And so they, uh, the buildings collapse then into a pile of rubble about three stories high.
So all those columns had to be severed.
And as if fire could, you know, fire and gravity could do that.
So as you say, the official story, if anybody will look at it precisely,
It's just absolutely ludicrous when one talks about probability theory.
And then we have Larry Silverstein saying we pulled it, refusing to answer questions, and then we have reporters being told, get back, we're going to pull it.
So yeah, with Building 7, and then you look at, as I point out in the book, my second book, if you examine the collapses of Buildings 7 and then the towers,
There are some differences, but for the most part, they all share these 9 or 10 standard characteristics.
And so, you know, it's a pretty easy logical syllogism.
And again, with their theory, if you can disprove any part of it, the whole thing falls.
And we can disprove every part of it.
It would take hours to do it, and you've done it, and I've done it.
Let's take a call.
I appreciate folks holding so long.
We'll go to Tim, David, and
Diana, or Dana, excuse me, and then Mike, that's it for calls.
Go ahead, you're on the air, Tim.
Good afternoon, Alex.
Yes, go ahead.
I was going to say, you mentioned it's only conspiracy theories if you haven't researched the subject, and it was quite obvious during the debate, Bravo, by the way, you two gentlemen, it's quite obvious who Peter Lance is working for.
Well, I don't know that we can conclude that.
I don't ever like to impugn anyone's
motives or sincerity and I know I know Peter, regardless of what Peter Lance was up to, the former Nightline producer, we just know he's wrong.
You had mentioned earlier, or you had touched on it, and that's the theory of cognitive dissonance, where people reject the information that's not in line with their previous thoughts or actions.
Yeah, denial is not a river.
That's one of those biggest hurdles I think we're facing in this 9-11 thing and my question to both gentlemen is what
What is it going to take?
I mean, I'd hate to see this backfire in our faces, because we all want the truth to come out, and we all want these perpetrators to end up in prison.
But what's going to happen to the leadership of this country in the interim, and how are we going to prevent the United Nations from trying to come in and take over?
All right, thanks for the call, Professor.
Well, I mean, I don't think there's any problem with the United Nations.
I mean, it was created to be completely impotent.
It's really just a front group, isn't it, for the industrialists?
Stay there, we got a break.
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Rush Limbaugh plumps new depths.
A perversion releases Gitmo t-shirt line.
Very important article.
Also one about how they're trying to discredit the Downing Street Memo.
Classic Karl Rovian or MI6 type activities.
We've got to get Professor Griffin on for two hours sometime.
There's just an hour is not enough with the breaks and things.
And I want to jam a few more calls in here from David and Mike and Dana.
But real fast, Professor, finish up what you were saying about the last caller.
Yeah, I was just going to say, I think he makes a good point that I think many people who know the official story is wrong and that our government was complicit say, look,
If we expose that, that's going to bring down the whole government.
We're going to be in chaos.
The economy will crash, give our so-called enemies a chance and all that.
And so I think that fear
Is another factor that the government, I mean, the forces who did this thought they could count on.
Yeah, I've talked to a lot of people who go, look, I know it's true, but it's the system and leave it alone.
Yeah, because, you know, revealing the truth would cause more harm than letting it go and letting the guys get away with it.
But that's not true.
I mean, we're dealing with cold blooded killers.
They're going to keep doing this.
And when we're talking about the future of the world, because, I mean, this is the larger context we need to consider.
That the project for global domination is not just dominating all other people.
It's us domestically!
But also, yeah, us domestically and also the ecological system of the planet, which these characters care nothing about.
You're absolutely right.
No, you're right.
They're going to use this to, you know, I mean, the studies indicate that global warming, if it is not slowed down enormously, I mean, we're talking about
Ninety percent reduction.
I agree with you on environmental crises, genetic engineering, but that's all.
We've got to get you back up, Professor.
Let's take a couple final calls real fast.
Mike in Tennessee is a steel worker.
Real fast, go ahead.
Yes, Alex, I just wanted to comment on the thickness of those inside columns.
I've built buildings with
I'm a certified welder.
It actually takes a special cutting torch other than an oxidizing acetylene to cut steel that thick.
So, kerosene burning, which is basically what jet fuel is, their explanation is what made me believe that the whole thing was a sham.
Well, for those that don't know, kerosene burns even lower than gasoline.
You can stick a lit match in it.
Don't try this at home, folks, because if there's any oxygen aerosolized, it will explode.
But you can sit there and literally try to light kerosene on fire.
Explain that to people.
Actually, like I said, it takes accelerated oxygen into it.
I think so.
Then you throw oxygen to it.
When the oxygen hits it, the flame turns white and blows the steel out of the way.
It actually doesn't destroy it.
It just kind of melts it and blows it.
Yeah, so your point is that even just cutting an ordinary piece of steel, you know, maybe an inch thick, would take a Cetylene torch.
And these things that are four inches thick would take an enormous amount of energy.
Thank you, Mike.
Dana and Joni and everybody, I'm sorry, we're out of time.
We'll have to have Professor Griffin back on in the future.
Professor, will you come back on?
All right, God bless you.
Okay, you too.
All right, I'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
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Link through and get your tickets now or buy them at the door now.
I'm sure it'll be sold out by next Monday.
Alright, just get out there and take on the New World Order.