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Name: 20050112_Wed_Alex
Air Date: Jan. 12, 2005
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Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
It's January 12, 2005.
I'm Alex Jones, your host.
We'll be live for the next three hours.
Coming up in about 30 minutes, we'll be talking to Elaine Castle, practices law in Virginia and the District of Columbia, teaches law and psychology, and follows the Bush regime's dismantling of the Constitution and civil liberties.
She is author of The War on Civil Liberties, How Bush and Ashcroft Have Dismantled the Bill of Rights.
She's an expert on Mr. Chertoff, who's going to be our new Homeland Security Leader.
And then, of course, in the second hour, Pat Shannon.
Concerning new developments, I mean, we already knew that the
BATF practiced blowing up a whole bunch of rider trucks out in the desert in the weeks before the Oklahoma City bombing as part of a National Security Council secret program.
Not just trucks, folks.
Rider trucks.
Out in the desert.
Pat Shannon with American Free Press is going to be joining us because new documents have been released and declassified.
With the BATF leader
Right there.
Calling in that it was an ANFO or fertilizer bomb within 10 minutes to BATF headquarters in Dallas.
We also had one of the chief FBI agents who told mainstream media that he was in Dallas and drove to Oklahoma City.
Turns out we have his receipts from the hotel.
He was there, of course, the night before.
It goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on.
And then in the third hour, Daniel Hopseeker, and just an amazing individual, making documentary films for many years, has a great website, Mad Cow Production, madcowprod.com.
He was good enough to allow us to post his Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus
His film getting into the hijackers and government involvement and how they were trained at US military bases and trained at private facilities.
We posted that at PrisonPlanet.TV.
There for members at PrisonPlanet.TV.
It's one of the new videos we posted this week.
He'll be joining us in the third hour.
So a jam-packed broadcast today.
The first thing I want to talk about, though, is I was in the shower this morning, and I've got one of those little radios you can listen to the radio in the shower with, and I'm in there listening to the radio, local AM radio, and they're announcing how wonderful it is that all over the city of Austin there are federally funded checkpoints.
Where they stop your cars and search everyone and the police officer who co-hosts the program was saying how this is how we stop crime and stop drunks and why while we're checking your license and registration and insurance we might find other illegal things.
And so as I'm in the shower for 20 minutes I listen to it.
As I'm brushing my teeth and combing my hair another 15 minutes I'm listening to it.
As I'm getting dressed I'm listening to it.
And then drinking coffee on listening to it, on the computer on listening to it.
There were probably 20 callers.
One of them was for it.
All the other callers were against the checkpoints.
We're sick of the police state.
We're sick of this going on.
And the one caller who was for it was a foreigner.
Well, in my country, they search us routinely.
I have no problem with it.
I mean, it's just amazing.
So I wanted to talk a little bit about checkpoints.
And the Cashless Society, Cracking Control Grid.
There's so much other news.
You'll want to stay with us.
Don't forget one of the other websites.
Infowars.com.
Stay with us.
Hey folks, Alex Jones here, and I'm very excited to announce the release of my bombshell documentary film, 9-1-1, The Road to Tyranny, on DVD.
That's right, folks, DVD.
The original film was 144 minutes long.
The DVD version is 170 minutes.
If you want to wake up your friends and families to the truth of what happened on September 11th, this is the film for you.
The Road to Tyranny is already sending shockwaves through Washington and across the United States.
You absolutely must see this DVD.
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Bottom line, this film is waking people up.
Order your copy on VHS or DVD today, and man the guns in the Info War.
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Hello folks, this is Alex Jones.
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He's the T-Rex of political talk.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
I want to talk about the tracking grid.
The Pentagon helped design it for the United States.
It's going in around the world in countries that have been captured by the globalists.
It consists of cameras on every major road, every major side street where you cannot travel more than a mile anywhere in the country
This is their plan without being tracked by a camera.
The cameras are hooked into software that instantly scans and reads your license plate and then runs it through a database.
And then of course this has the dual use of taxing you by the mile between camera points.
That's how they're already taxing in Germany, France, England, and at least two states
In the United States.
And now the LA Times comes out yesterday, and the LAPD squad cars are going to have these scan cameras on them, where the police don't have to aim the cameras, the cameras are constantly reading all license plates.
It's an AI, artificial intelligence, where it hones in on the shape of a car, zooms in on the back or the front, instantly scanning millisecond by millisecond, then changing the camera's views.
It can scan all the cars, one police car can, going down the highway.
A cop car can just sit there and scan every license plate.
But again, these same systems, the same software is in all the big cameras that you see up on the highways and street corners and now in our neighborhoods.
And I've been telling you this for years.
I saw the federal plans on this about eight years ago.
I would read federal documents on air.
I would get emails from people going, you're an insane conspiracy theorist.
Are the Martians going to get me?
I talked about how the feds were pressuring the states to start
Taxing by the camera scanning the license plates, or by small transponders the size of a matchbox that will tax and trace you.
Also, they want to go even further.
Some states like California, Oregon, New York, Indiana, Wisconsin, Florida, and Texas are now looking
And New Jersey, forgot that one, are now looking, in fact Oregon's trying to pass a law, so is California right now, they have a law introduced in New York as well, trying to pass a law to make you, when you go to get your tags, just like they do the emissions test, your car goes in the line for a few hours and they put a satellite box, satellite tracker box, on your dash that tracks and traces everything you do.
Now, they can do this with the cameras, they can tax and trace with the cameras, or the transponders.
But they want to go even further with the satellite boxes.
Which, by the way, hook into the ignition, and can kill your car.
And lo and behold, I heard all of this being discussed on the radio this morning here in Austin.
On the biggest local morning talk show, AM talk show.
And they've got a police officer who is one of the co-hosts, who I've grown up listening to.
And there's admissions of the cops are putting systems in cars, soon all the cars will have it, where they can remote control kill your car.
Yes, there's checkpoints being set up all across Austin in the mornings, where they search your vehicles and stop the cars and why we're looking for seatbelts and driver's licenses and
Insurance and why we find other criminal stuff while we search you!
And he went on and on and on and on how great it was!
And so I listened to it for a good, I don't know, hour and a half.
This morning.
And they took about twenty calls.
One caller called in who was for it.
He was a foreigner.
He talked about how in his country the police searched him whenever they wanted to.
It was no big deal.
Why don't you move back to your
Third World Thug Nation.
And the other two hosts on the show, they were against it as well, but they were kind of in the middle, you could say, but leaning towards being against it.
And the police officer kept dropping back with, well, we just gotta stop drunks, but wait a minute, you admitted it was to search for driver's license and registration and insurance and look for other illegal things.
I've been through these checkpoints.
We've shot many of them.
I put it in Police State 2000, one of the first big federally funded ones, where they shut down, I mean shut down I-35 for at least 8-9 months.
I mean it took us an hour to get up
Two miles, because our exit was up towards the middle of the checkpoint, or up towards the last third of the checkpoint.
But we got on I-35 at William Cannon, and just to get down to Slaughter took an hour.
Slaughter Lane, where they were slaughtering the Bill of Rights.
And many of you have seen that video locally in Austin on my TV show where you whip through the checkpoints yourself.
And I just got out of the car and took my camera up and started saying, You're violating the Fourth Amendment!
You're violating America!
You're destroying America!
And some police were nodding and looked upset.
Others tried to come over and get my face.
And I just said, Arrest me.
You're destroying America.
I don't care.
Well, now they have these many checkpoints with 10, 15 police out there.
And they're quasi-checkpoints.
It's like, well, we're here to catch people running red lights, which I'm, I have no problem setting up a couple cops to do that.
But no, we've been through these.
They're just randomly stopping cars, pulling people over, going through all this, and it's federally funded.
And here was this police officer, people are calling in going, it violates the Bill of Rights!
We're not all guilty until proven innocent!
You know, we have, um,
The presumption of innocence.
And he's like, well, well, we gotta do this.
We just gotta stop the crime.
We just gotta do it.
We just gotta do it.
Then move to another country!
Leave America!
Get out of here!
Don't tell me to leave, love it or leave it.
America is about standing up for what you believe in in the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
But I want people to get it through their heads out there that are for this.
Every one of these cameras on the streets, on the neighborhoods, on the side roads, they're all having face scanning software hooked into them.
That is, the places that the cameras feed back to, the federally funded emergency management systems and emergency management centers.
It's all being fed into face scans, face scanning software, face scanning servers.
It's all being fed through these license plate scanners.
Texas already has it.
Almost every state already has it put in in most of its cities.
The feds have got it.
About three years ago, my father called.
It was about 7.30 in the morning.
He said, son, turn on C-SPAN.
So I went and I turned on C-SPAN.
And they had one of the federal bureaucrats on from the Transportation Department.
And they were showing cities.
They had big screens up.
C-SPAN was there at their command center in D.C.
And they were showing all these different cities, and they cut to Austin, and showed the highways, and showed the roads.
And they said, we control traffic here, locally, but we also look for terrorists, and scan the license plates from this main center.
So, again, this is real, folks.
This is happening, but here it is, yesterday, in the Los Angeles Times.
I have another article here out of Green Bay where the police got a federal grant to put thumb scanners in the police cars.
And guess what?
When they pull you over and think you have a warrant, that's not when they use this.
Everyone who is stopped, everyone who is ticketed, is fingerprinted.
So now you don't get arrested for going five miles over the speed limit.
You get your ticket and they thumb scan you.
And when you go to Disney World, they thumb scan you.
And when you go to, like I tried to do a year ago, this is on the website, just type in SeaWorld, InfoWars.com, and a search engine will pop up.
Try to go to SeaWorld, they hand scan you.
Everything you do, everything you buy, everywhere you go.
Let me break this down again for people.
Let me make this as simple as I can.
Diamond Shamrock.
I have a friend who works there.
I'm getting gas.
I see a woman buying a 12-pack.
She's obviously over 40 years old.
Got gray hairs.
He asked for a driver's license.
Actually, the lady beside him did.
Behind the counter.
Scans it.
When she leaves, I say, man, I've been seeing 80-year-old women being scanned for cigarettes.
I go, why are you doing this?
He said, look, we've been told you're buying beer, you're buying cigarettes.
It doesn't matter if you're on a walker,
With an oxygen mask, and that was his words, we have to scan your license.
And he said, come behind here.
Because nobody was in the store.
He said, come behind here.
And he showed me, he said, when I scan your license, it goes to the Texas Department of Public Safety, it checks the database if you have warrants, or, now listen to this, or if your license has expired.
And he said, we've been told soon,
Very soon, we're going to be scanning driver's license for any purchase.
And I pointed over to cupcakes.
And I said, if I want those chocolate cupcakes, I'm gonna have to do it.
He said, that's what we've been told.
And he said, that's all I can say.
And the woman beside him was just giggling.
Now he's a good guy.
He's probably listening to the show right now.
I want to say hi to him.
I'm not going to say where it's at or which time in Shamrock.
There's probably 50 of them in Austin, so he's not in great danger.
But I'm going to try to talk to him later, see if I can get behind the counter with a video camera and show this.
We had a TxDOT employee show us, got video of internal computers showing how your driver's license number is already called your national ID, by the way.
This was four months ago before they passed it in Congress.
With their internal computers, they tell you, give us your driver's license number, but really it's called National ID on their computer interface.
So, worse than 1984, has nothing to do with terrorism, and people better get this through their heads.
And I talked years ago about how in the future you go into a store, you're not a good globalist,
You won't be able to buy without the card, and they're gonna hit a button and call the police.
I'm telling you, we're going to see it happen unless we stop it.
We'll be right back.
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Waging War on Corruption.
Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
Madonna, never thought I'd be talking about Madonna, is running around saying that Jewish mysticism, the Kabbalah, can heal entire countries, is just incredibly powerful.
She's out promoting this.
That's part of the occult
uh... activities uh... that the jews picked up when they were in captivity in babylon and uh... well that's madonna out promoting that meanwhile police begin fingerprinting on traffic stops this out of W-B-A-Y-T-V if you're ticketed by green bay police you'll get more than a fine you'll get fingerprinted too it's a new way police are cracking down on crime if you're caught speeding or
Playing your music too loud or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask you for your driver's license and your finger.
It will be fingerprinted right there on the spot.
The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.
Police say it's meant to protect you in case the person they're citing isn't you.
Who they claim to be, but not everyone is sold on the explanation.
And again, it integrates in with the thumb scan, the finger scan you do when you get a driver's license.
Folks, it was the governor of Wisconsin a few years ago, this is in my film Matrix of Evil,
Of the small blurbs in the film, we have the news articles.
Every cell phone tracks you and can listen to you with audio, even when it's off.
And he admitted this and said they're going to pay in the emergency management systems for the new tax that every phone is tracked and is a dot on a screen.
They just punch in your name and know where you're at and can listen to you.
It's no big deal.
Ergonomics Today is announcing they're trying to pass a federal law where there'll be infrared cameras in all cars watching you.
via cell phone uplink.
Again, Total Brick Brother, worse than 1984, just openly being announced.
Very, very interesting.
Search for banned arms in Iraq ended last month.
The hunt for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons in Iraq has come to an end nearly two years after President Bush ordered U.S.
troops to disarm Saddam Hussein, his business partner,
Two top CIA weapons hunters who have come home have said.
And so they're no longer looking for the weapons that they sold them.
Also, U.S.
trade deficit soars to an all-time high of $16.3 billion in November alone.
They always get these numbers three or four months later.
Now we've got the numbers for November 2004.
This just came out today.
$16.3 billion in November!
But they said a plunging dollar would cause
More manufacturing here.
Well, you have to have industry to begin with.
And that's not the case.
So, record monthly trade deficit of $60.3 billion.
Continuing, the FBI probes more laser shots at airplanes.
But to our knowledge, there was no danger to the aircraft, said Kathy Byrie, spokeswoman for the FBI in Los Angeles.
Regardless of that, anyone who they believe may have pointed a toy laser at anything, any government vehicle, will be charged as a terrorist.
And they have now charged the individual up in New York who aimed one of the lasers with his daughter.
Remember the Navy SEAL photos that came out a few weeks ago of them beating people?
I found some more of these photos and it shows the guy before and after.
With cuts on him and blood all over him, I mean, it's pretty gruesome.
Now the AP's reporting a former Navy SEAL says he saw fellow SEALs and CIA officials kick, choke, and eye gouge detainees at a US military base in Iraq.
Another base, by the way.
Of course, they torture them at all the bases.
The former SEAL testified at a military hearing Monday that he saw interrogation by means of abuse, oh, it's not torture, take place at Camp Jini-Hazi, the SEAL base in Baghdad International Airport.
He said a prisoner under the interrogation of the CIA was abused in October of 2003 by two other SEALs.
One other occasion, a month later, the witness said he watched a SEAL punch, choke, and poke their fingers in the eyes of an Iraqi, Mandel Al-Jamadi, who was also punched by a CIA official when he didn't answer questions.
And see, the problem with this is, what happens when our troops get tortured?
Well, we'll engage in double-thinking and go, well, that's bad!
It's very evil to torture, but it's good when we do.
AWOL Soldier Cites Army Inadequacies, this is out of AP, and talking about how, literally, in whole platoons, half their guns might work.
I mean, the guns don't even work.
And they just tell them, sorry, you don't get guns that work.
The guns don't work, folks.
They're old, worn out pieces of junk, and they're going, look, we're not going to do it.
We're talking about people who have been in Iraq for years, they've already served, and they're going, look!
I'm quitting!
End of story!
I've been asking for a rifle that works, and you won't give me one!
And then a whole group of soldiers from one platoon went public.
How dare them!
Charge them as Al Qaeda sympathizers!
They want guns that work!
Let them eat cake!
How dare them!
We're on the march, the empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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Hi folks, this is Alex Jones.
Whether you are aware or not, World War III has started.
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Oil War III has started.
Don't kid yourself, the reason we went into Iraq is oil.
Now we are looking at the possibility of invading Iran and even Saudi Arabia.
Why else would the U.S.
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Does it look like we're pulling out?
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Monday through Friday from 11 a.m.
Central Standard Time.
until 2 p.m.
We're here live and back from 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
Coming up in the next hour, we got Pat Shannon coming on to talk about new information on the Oklahoma City bombing.
And believe me, you don't want to miss this.
The BATF testing blowing up rider trucks full of ammonium nitrate in the months and weeks before the Oklahoma City bombing.
And the head of that program being on the ground in Oklahoma City the morning of the bombing, calling it in, telling the press it was an AMFO bomb.
Ah, yes.
Very, very interesting.
Coming up in the next hour, we've also got Daniel Hopsinger.
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Now, I am honored to be joined by the author of The War on Civil Liberties and
We're going to be talking about Mr. Chertoff.
We'll also be talking about Mr. Chertoff in the third hour and some of his organized crime connections that Daniel Hopsinger has been exposing.
But right now we're talking to Elaine Castle.
She practices law in Virginia and the District of Columbia, teaches law and psychology, and follows the Bush regime's dismantling of the Constitution and civil liberties.
And she is the author of The War on Civil Liberties, How Bush and Ashcroft Have Dismantled the Bill of Rights.
She'll be with us for the next
Twenty-two minutes, roughly.
And Elaine, it's good to have you on with us.
Thank you for having me.
You bet.
Look, Bill Clinton dismantled a lot of our freedoms.
George Bush has accelerated it.
And now we see more and more people across the political spectrum waking up to what's happening and how this attack on our freedoms has nothing to do with terrorism.
Tell us about your book and what we're facing.
Well, I guess my book was about, and actually I have to say that at the current rate my book is starting to look like a bedtime story because it seems rather benign what I was writing about then compared to what's been happening in the past couple of months, but particularly in the past week with Gonzalez and now Chertoff.
But the way I look at the declared war on terrorism is that it was a great power grab, a move that now we see had some of Gonzales' fingerprints on it right from the start.
In fact, it was his push that kind of led Ashcroft and Viet Den to start
I'm fashioning the Patriot Act, but I think it was a great power grab, a great opportunity to... Yeah, tell folks what he's been saying in these memos.
Bush is above the law.
We can bury people alive.
Absolutely.
I mean, if you read the Gonzales memos, and really he did not back off of this at the hearing, there is nothing that a president can't do.
I think the term that he coined was Commander-in-Chief Override, and I really like that term.
That's called dictatorship!
So, so, so...
So he's declaring dictator powers.
Absolutely.
And then says wait for the courts to stop me in effect.
And the thing that bothers me greatly is that... They control the courts.
They do control the courts.
And even when the courts have made decisions contrary to some of their positions... Six months ago, multiple federal courts said you can't grab citizens as enemy combatants and strip them of rights.
And the Justice Department said we don't care.
That's correct, and in fact there are still very few prisoners in Guantanamo who have been able to see the attorneys that the Supreme Court said they could have, and the government is fighting those attorneys in federal court in the District of Columbia at this very time.
And then two weeks ago they declared this new thing that we're not even going to have trials, the CIA and State Department are going to hold people for life.
Absolutely, and Gonzales, let me tell you, as I said to someone yesterday, if you think about the fact that
Now he's a real piece of work.
He's a scary guy.
Between the two of them, I think that Bush has got it sewed up.
Between Gonzalez and Chertoff, I think you've got to hand it to Bush, Rove, whoever brought these men on, because there's not going to be any room for us to even squirm.
Chertoff has said, I mean, he does not support the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
Well, he says he has some interest, he said, in preserving civil liberties, but that's just bull, that's just talk.
After the Inspector General of the Justice Department issued his scathing report on the Department of Justice treatment of citizens and legal aliens after September 11th, he turned off and Ashcroft appeared before the Congress and said, you know what?
We'd do it again, you know?
So, no, he's going to do whatever he wants to.
The Congress doesn't give a flip, okay?
He's going to get a quick pass, as Gonzalez did.
And the courts, if the courts ever slap down anything Chertoff does, and here's something important to remember, you know, as the head of Homeland Security, as all those agencies, probably most of what Chertoff is able to accomplish legislatively will be through executive orders.
In other words, he can just sign off and it doesn't need to go through legislation.
And those are the types of things... Well, that's what they did.
Bush did an executive order on this thing of
Well, our own tribunals aren't working because their own military officers are quitting in droves.
So he says, okay, I'll just sign an executive order saying we can just arrest whoever we want.
Sure, he signed an executive order creating the status of enemy combatants.
He signed an executive order saying go pick up Jose Padilla and hold him.
And so those are the things that people never know about.
You don't know about the executive orders that may suddenly say that you can't get on the subway, you know, with an umbrella or something.
Let me stop you for a second.
I want to go back here.
I'm sure you're aware that veterans that call and complain too much, Homeland Security comes and arrests them and says, well, you didn't threaten anybody, but complaining too much could be terrorism.
Or a woman selling knockoff Rubik's Cubes gets a Homeland Security visit.
Or a county commissioner getting a $4,000 payoff for more parking spaces gets arrested under it.
Or a guy pointing a toy laser with his daughter.
Sure.
They're using this against citizens across the board.
Taking a picture of a bridge.
Don't do that.
Don't do that.
And that's the thing because the definition of terrorism is anything that the government wants it to be at any given time.
Absolutely.
And so certainly you and I having this conversation could be considered terrorism.
Well that's Section 802.
Yes.
The aiding and abetting terrorism.
Well, I mean, in Section 802 of the First Patriot Act, they say any action that endangers human life is a violation of any federal or state law.
And another definition is trying to influence a politician.
Right.
In fact, and not only that, but in addition to the actual black letter law, you're citing the statute.
Terrorism is defined differently in many, many regulations.
And it is defined most broadly, for instance, in immigration statutes and regulations.
And so, there are hundreds of different definitions of terrorism, depending upon which law and which statute you look under.
Of course, now states are enacting their own anti-terrorism laws, and they're getting money from the federal government to arrest people for federal terrorism crimes that may mimic state laws.
Um, so I mean you, you, they're bringing the, um, your state law enforcement agencies on board by giving funding to the state.
And for our conservative listeners, for our conservative listeners...
Some of the states are passing Second Amendment violating laws and connecting it to terrorism and then federal charges and then they're also doing all sorts of First Amendment violations.
Oh my, yes.
Saying people can't march and demonstrate and trying to connect it to that.
I mean, this is... It looks to me like they're really trying to set up a dictatorship here.
I think they've done it.
You know what I think?
I think they've done it.
I think it's too late and it's done and I think that if you look at, you know, what's going to happen next week in the inauguration, I think you'll never have seen more of a police state
Looking like a police state, then you'll see next week.
They're going to take 400 TSA workers and have them out searching people on the street corners.
Right.
Well, you're already going to be stopped.
I mean, I live just across the river from D.C., and if you get on a subway now, you're going to be, quote, detained.
If you, quote, don't make eye contact, if you look around too much, or if you loiter.
Those are the new behavioral profiles.
Behavioral profiling.
So you better read it and figure out how you're going to stand as you're waiting for your subway.
They're going to be, what, thousands of law enforcement, the airplanes are already flying, the boats have been banned from the Potomac, so don't get out there in your canoe or they're already warning you that you will be arrested by the Coast Guard.
Think about Chertoff having in his command 180,000 federal employees, as well as the Coast Guard.
And that ought to give you some pause.
I mean, everything that you do virtually has come within some aspect of the Department of Homeland Security.
It is a huge agency.
Now, in my film, what, 27 agencies under it?
Mm-hmm, I guess.
Under, and then a hundred sub ones under that, a hundred plus.
But, in my film, Police State 3, I have Ashcroft saying, this doesn't affect citizens, phantoms have lost liberty, but if you say it affects citizens, you're aiding terrorists, you will lose your liberty.
Now that's a quote, we've played that, so if you talk about us taking your freedom, you're aiding terrorists, you will lose your liberty.
And then, now, it's getting crazier and crazier!
Oh, well it is.
In fact, as I said to someone too yesterday, where is Jonathan Swift now that we need him?
I mean, you can't even write about this administration now, except writing the most, you know, the most absurd...
Let's be specific!
Right, if that doesn't make you, maybe you're going to talk about his mob connections.
Maybe they're building dumpsters up there in New Jersey right now to put us in.
Maybe they're building the boxcars to carry us away in.
Well, again, folks, we're not joking around.
No, this is serious stuff.
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Well, I'm an attorney, and I practice in Northern Virginia in the District of Columbia, and I got interested in following these stories.
Merely out of personal interest, because I practice in the federal court in Alexandria, where this started.
I mean, you know, I'm chaired off with and involved in the Massawi case early on.
And I saw the law changing rapidly right in front of my eyes, saw the Congress asleep, see the prosecutors acting like idiots with no discretion, you know, wanting to put people, you know, call them on capital offenses for taking a picture of a bridge.
And I just got stunned.
I love the law.
I love teaching the law.
And so I started following it.
And my book is about specific cases and specific issues.
Isn't this really a revolution they're engaging in?
They are overturning the basic canons of what America is.
Let's specifically talk about Chertoff, but first let's talk about Gonzalez.
He didn't just say the president is king and above the law and we can torture, and then those memos were used for the brutal torture, including the torture of children in front of parents, folks.
Get into this.
He specifically talked about forms of torture.
I mean, picture him in the White House.
We could bury people alive.
In the White House, he was having a conversation, which I find it... Tell folks about the specifics.
Well, just that they talked about the different things about would this constitute torture, and I don't know.
I think that who else might have been in the meeting with Addington, who is the attorney for Cheney.
Uh, and maybe Cheney, but he wouldn't say at the hearings, actually, who was president.
In fact, but he did take great pains at the hearing, if you recall, to say that President Bush wasn't there.
Um, that he didn't talk about the various methods of torture.
But here's something that's incredible.
Gonzalez is an attorney.
And an attorney, no matter who his client is, is bound to uphold the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
And for an attorney to go to the lengths at which he has gone to validate to his client, the President, that things that the international law and U.S.
law finds more than objectionable but grossly illegal, to my mind,
Gonzalez ought to be disciplined as an attorney.
He ought to lose his law license.
The very fact that you have an attorney sitting in as counsel to the president, twisting the law in a way to ensure the president that he could torture people as long as you fall short of, quote, organ failure.
And then, if there's organ failure or death, if you didn't mean to kill the person, right, if you just mean to, what, crush them until they're
That's like saying if Joseph Mingala only meant to dissect the children but didn't mean to kill them, Joseph Mingala's not bad.
Here's the problem.
What happens after another terror attack?
They've lined all this up, got it all prepared, and then another, as PNAC said, another helpful terror attack.
That's their words.
The gift that keeps on giving, right?
Yeah, it's just going to expand.
Well, yeah, and I think that the other thing that was interesting about Gonzales is that he, in order to be consistent, you see, because he's a clever attorney, he would not even say that if a foreign power tortured American troops that that would be torture.
That would be a violation of law.
He said, gee, I really don't know what law that would be a violation of.
So now we're changing the definition globally, and he knows you can't have a dual definition.
Yes, that's how clever he is.
He's no idiot, and neither is Chertoff.
Because if we define torture by somebody else, then it can be used here.
Stay there.
We've got to get you back on.
One more segment with you.
We'll be right back with this incredible author.
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The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.
Because there's a war on for your mind.
We're talking to Elaine Castle.
She wrote the powerful book, The War on Civil Liberties.
How Bush and Ashcroft have dismantled the Bill of Rights.
It's all accelerated now.
They passed the National ID Card.
Passed Much of Patriot Act II.
Passed the New Freedom Initiative.
Forced psychological testing of all school children.
I mean, this is hell on earth.
We've got about three or four minutes left, Elaine.
Any other key points you want to bring up to the listeners?
Well, I think just about Chertoff is that he, between the combination of him and Gonzales, I think that they can do anything within or without the law to accomplish the objectives of George Bush.
I think both of them are brilliant attorneys, and you saw how well Gonzales could twist the law.
And Chertoff, who has a, as he said, a spit-on-the-sidewalk approach to justice.
In other words, you look funny and we're going to sweep you up.
He is the architect of the concept of preventive arrest.
Which was used not only right after September 11th, but it's still being employed.
We see you taking a picture of a bridge.
You might be a terrorist.
You got a funny last name.
Here you go.
And by the way, they're just setting a precedent with all this.
Chertoff's real federal funding to local police departments is to, I want to warn people, is to go after conservatives, liberal activists, gun owners, homeschoolers.
Everybody is at risk who is not them.
And I mean by them, I mean in a position of power.
So I don't care where you stand ideologically.
You are at risk if you're one of the people.
I mean, these people want unbridled imperial power.
If you just pay attention to the inauguration next week, I don't know when you... there's never been anything like this coming in the United States.
There's never been an inauguration where the people have been kept out.
You know, as we're sitting here on the eve of Martin Luther King's birthday, there couldn't have been any demonstrations for civil rights under the Bush administration.
There won't be any.
I mean, when you just think about that.
Well, we have people being convicted of felonies for standing in a group of 500 Bush supporters on a public sidewalk with a sign saying, no blood for oil.
Oh, sure.
Arrested.
How about the t-shirt of the mother whose son was killed in Iraq and she dared to show up at a tea where Laura Bush was with a tea shirt.
She was arrested.
Well, it's clear they want to have a chilling effect.
The answer is to come out of the woodwork and expose this police state and not be cowed by it.
Well, three years later, they haven't had one conviction of any of these so-called terrorists they've grabbed.
Turnoff became a judge in 2003, but between 2001 and 2003, he instituted and instigated these, you know, so-called, you know, bringing terrorists to justice, and virtually none of them have resulted in a conviction.
Why do you think they tried to have Carrick first?
Well, I think they probably would have preferred Carrick, because, to my mind, I guess, Carrick was such a, people said Bush liked him because he was such a macho type, you know, and even his
Even his shady personal life seemed to be something that Bush thought was kind of cool, because it was kind of in your face.
And we know George Bush doesn't care about appearances or propriety or anything.
So I think that they probably really did want Carrick.
Certainly with Chertoff, I think it was a brilliant move.
Well, I've known for years that Chertoff really runs things.
Well, yeah.
I mean, I think... So now they're having to take the chief gremlin from behind the scenes and put him out front.
Well, people say he wants to be Attorney General, that he wants to be on the Supreme Court.
Um, that he's absolutely doing this for his own political reasons.
It couldn't be something that he would actually probably want to do.
I mean... Alright, well you're, ma'am, you're incredibly informed.
It's refreshing to talk to somebody who's so aware.
I hope people get your book.
And I want to get you back up for a full hour in the near future.
I'd be happy to come back.
Alright, well God bless you.
Do you think we'll be able to turn this around?
No.
Or is it just dictatorship from here on out?
I don't know how, unless... I mean, if you can get out on the streets, I'm sure you're going to be arrested.
But I think we better start having efforts at mass demonstrations.
Well, PNAC said they needed terror attacks to do this to us.
You gotta look at the motive.
Who gets power from the terror?
Well, it's just not you and me.
Yeah, so who's behind the terror?
And who makes the money from these alleged terrorist threats, huh?
Bernie Kerrick and tasers, right?
Yep.
And Giuliani.
God bless you.
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
Boy, we had an amazing interview last hour with Ellen Castle, practices law and teaches law in, uh, D.C.
She said, martial law, folks, total dictatorship.
That's what Chertoff and Viet Dinh and Ashcroft and Gonzales, that's what they're setting up.
Has nothing to do with terrorism.
The end of the Bill of Rights, the end of America, saying they're absolute dictators.
Openly saying it.
We are the law.
We are above the law.
We can take your rights.
We can arrest you for no reason.
We can torture you until death.
Up until death.
And if you die, it's not our fault.
Federally funded checkpoints everywhere.
Trade deficit exploding.
Our debt exploding.
Our freedoms disappearing.
Face scanning and license plate scanning.
Cameras going up everywhere.
Police command centers that track and trace all your cell phones in real time and can listen to your audio, even when your phone's off, using them as bugs.
This is all mainstream news, all in your face, but the borders are wide open.
Steve in Ohio, you're on the air.
Go ahead, Steve.
Great show, Alex.
Alex, I don't mean to change the subject, but you know how you're always fighting this campaign against Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Yes.
Well, remember in, I don't know if you remember, in December of last year, 2004, just a month ago, he was addressing a group of women and children, and he made a very nasty comment.
It was on Lou Dobbs.
I have the audio cued up.
Do you want to hear it?
Will you mail it to me?
Do you want to hear it now?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, go ahead.
Okay, hold on.
We'll take about 30 seconds.
Add another to the list of offhand remarks from Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
This one made at the opening of the California Governor's Conference on Women and Children, when several nurses protested the Governor's health care policies.
The nurses were promptly escorted out of the Schwarzenegger event.
And what Schwarzenegger did next has sparked outrage.
Pay no attention to those voices over there, by the way.
This is a special interest.
If you know what I mean, okay?
The special interests just don't like me in Sacramento.
Because I'm always kicking their butt.
That's why they don't like me.
I'm sorry to know you're out of it.
It was a laugh.
Okay, you got it.
Now, yeah, maybe I'm dense, but what was the last thing you said?
He said, he goes, something about, I don't like the special interest, because I'm always kicking their butt.
What it was, was a group of women protesters that were protesting against his health care policies for the state of California, and then they escorted him out of there, and he was real egotistical and arrogant.
I already have this, I already copied it for you, if you want me to send it to you.
Yeah, well, I mean, Schwarzenegger just ten years ago used to blow up and start screaming and cussing at press conferences.
I mean, he's a nut.
Right, well, I mean, they're saying that he was, there was something else on this clip, I don't want to play it, but it's just saying that basically the women group was not real happy with him.
He's definitely not a lover of peace and civil rights, that's for sure.
Well, I wonder why they had him kicked out of the meeting.
Well, I don't know.
They didn't have him kicked.
This wasn't a meeting.
He wasn't kicked out of it.
They kicked these women out of it.
No, the women.
I understand.
I'm saying, why did they have him kicked out?
I don't know.
You'll have to see the clip because I don't want to explain it on there, but it was on Lou Dobbs' business report.
And also, one other thing I wanted to tell you, that clip that I'm going to be sending you from Meet the Press, there was nothing mentioned about Arnold Schwarzenegger being president.
Maybe that was from some other news
Yeah, that was the caller saying that.
Yeah, I don't think it was on that one, but they mentioned Jack Kemp, not Jack Kemp, but Newt Gingrich running for president, possibly.
Oh boy!
Yeah, so anyways, it's a very good clip, but they do talk about the Armstrong-Williams thing in detail, and you appreciate that, but I just want to say keep up the good work, Alex.
Alright, thank you for the call.
Very interesting.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is a monster, folks, and that's why we have ArnoldExposed.com.
Coming up is Pat Shannon, American Free Press.
We knew the BATF was doing drills where they were blowing up rider trucks full of ammonium nitrate out in the desert.
But now we have actual documents and more details that Pat Shannon has broken.
This is coming up, believe me.
This is so important when we're talking about government-sponsored terrorism.
By the way, a lot of new stuff posted at PrisonPlan.tv.
Alex Jones here announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.
Police State 3 details the architecture, goals, and operations of the New World Order.
There is a chance to use this disaster for the New World Order.
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We rip the Sinister Patriot Act legislation 1 and 2 apart piece by piece and reveal the arrogance of what Ashcroft has to say about your liberty.
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If you want to understand what the New World Order really is, then my new two-and-a-half-hour video, Police Day 3, is for you.
Visit Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com to order or call toll-free 1-888-253-3139.
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Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
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until 2 p.m.
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We had a guest on the last hour talking about the nightmare developments of Chertoff and Gonzales saying Bush is above the law and discussing how they can torture people right up until death and that even if they die, it's not torture.
This is in the memos.
This is public.
And I know we haven't gotten to a lot of your calls.
We'll try to later in this hour.
We just got a lot of guests coming on today.
OKC bombshell implicates feds in Murrah Blast.
Now, again,
They even had a little Discovery Channel piece many years ago where they mentioned that the BATF had done tests blowing up Ryder trucks, but didn't say that it was right before the April 19, 1995 bombing, or that the guy that ran the program was there on the ground in Oklahoma City.
Or that he's the guy that called the media and said it's AMFO within ten minutes of the blast taking place.
And I've interviewed police officers that investigated it.
You know, I've put it in my film.
I've covered it.
But now more documents, more revelations have come out on this.
It's been out there.
Also, one of the chief FBI officers over the terrorism team had claimed he was in Dallas and drove, because of bad weather, didn't fly, to Oklahoma City minutes after he heard of the bombing.
Well, it came out a few years ago, and this isn't Road to Tyranny.
They got the actual hotel receipts.
He was there the day before.
This is admitted.
And he lied to Newsweek and others saying he drove to Oklahoma.
And we have copies of the receipt at the hotel.
So we got all these guys, they're on the ground, and we have the police on video and wrote a tyranny saying,
Two minutes after the blast, the BATF was in full bomb gear.
They showed up.
They said, we were told not to come into work today.
The judges were told not to come into work that day.
This is police and firemen and FBI.
This is on the record.
And then the feds have all these surveillance camera tapes.
And don't try to use them in the trial against Nichols and McVeigh.
Even though police that have seen those tapes say it shows other bombers.
So, the Feds were told this was a drill.
They always cover up... When Putin's FSB in 1999 got caught planting bombs in a fourth building, they'd already blown up three apartment buildings.
Moscow police were good guys.
They set up a sting operation.
They caught FSB, the new name of the KGB at the time,
Planting hexogen bombs on the pillars.
They busted them, had the hexogen.
Putin sent in armed people, made them turn them loose.
Arrested police that had reported it.
FSB members have now gone public about it.
They claimed it was a drill when they got caught.
9-11, they were doing drills of hijacked jets flying into the World Trade Center Pentagon and 15 other sites around the country.
That way NORAD thought it was a drill until it really became real.
They always do this in case they get caught.
So let me read part of what Pat Shannon's written, then we'll go to the man himself who's on the road.
We appreciate him joining us.
After nearly a decade, shocking suppressed evidence emerges only moments after an enormous blast blew away most of the facade and a full quarter of the eastern end of the Albuquerque Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 95, the FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, BATF,
began to release evidence implicating two men and two men only who they claimed were solely responsible.
The evidence later showed that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had confessed to the impossible.
At first several independent
Investigators came forward to complain that there was an obvious cover-up.
Now they call it an ongoing cover-up of a cover-up.
And now even the new OKC Museum contradicts the official theory of what happened on April 19th.
Officials in charge at the time still refuse to discuss anything other than the manufactured spin.
McVeigh and Nichols
As convicted by the courts, mixed up a large batch of ammonium nitrate fuel, or AMFO, a mild explosive used by farmers to blow up stumps and demolish several square blocks of downtown Oklahoma City with a devastating blast that could be heard miles away.
In reality, the AMFO story was born ten minutes after the blast when a high-ranking BATF official by the name of Harry Everhart witnessed the blast from nearby and called the BATF office in Dallas to
Excitedly announced, someone has just blown up the federal building in Oklahoma City with a truckload of info.
Some reporters and investigators who have looked objectively at the bombing
Now argue that neither Eberhardt or anyone else could have correctly deduced in such a short time exactly what caused the explosion.
According to government documents released later, Eberhardt was experienced in loading large amounts of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in a vehicle for use as a terrorist truck bomb and his presence in the midst of the second worst terrorist attack in US history looms suspicious to this day.
And giving us the details of that, how months and months prior to this, they were doing drills of blowing up trucks out in the desert.
And guess who was over this?
Mr. Everhart, who just so happened... This is incredible.
Thanks for holding during that diatribe.
Pat Shannon, American Free Press.
Good to have you on with us.
How are you, Alex?
Long time.
I want to get you back up about your book here in the near future, which I've excitedly been reading.
Absolutely.
People can read your article at InfoWars.com or link through to American Free Press.
Give us the rest of the details.
Well, you know, it's very, very suspicious this guy Everhart, as you just mentioned, would be on the scene.
You see, he had gone to Congress, our ATF had,
Which has been linked back to Dick Nexon.
All right.
I would just add that caveat.
Go ahead.
I should add, parenthetically, that contrary to the news reports, the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993 was composed of urea nitrate and was not anvil, according to the FBI.
And the FBI paid Amad Salam to cook the bomb and gave him the detonators and let it go forward.
Under the pretense that it would be talcum powder or something else that it wouldn't explode.
That's right.
Please continue, though, with the current bombing we're discussing.
Well, as you mentioned, this is really not hot news, but it has been very suppressed news.
We released this at Media Bypass back in about 1997.
But just as the tapes from across the street were confiscated by the FBI, when we go into investigating this thing deeply, everything points back to some agency of the government.
The FBI was so active in the cover-up, they didn't want to know anything else except what pertained.
Well, back to Harry Everhart, he's the chief in charge of this ATF operation, and indeed they do go to New Mexico in late 94 and early 95.
They were blowing up cars out there in the New Mexico desert and testing ammonium nitrate fuel oil.
Now, you know, what are the odds of the same man who had gone to Washington to get the funding for these experiments should be standing on the street in Oklahoma City at the moment that, at that time, the largest so-called terrorist attack in America takes place?
And what are the odds that the former head of the FBI hostage rescue team and one of the high-level officers would be there the night before and would light a news week and say that he got there the day of the event that he drove there?
Well, that's right, and as you mentioned, the motel receipts hung him.
Let's go over that a little bit.
Well, that wasn't my story.
That was broken by J.D.
Cash a couple of years ago, and he had the details on that, but I remember it well, in that the motel computer had the guy, what's his name?
I'm slipping off my tongue right now.
That's why I was going to you.
And here are the motel receipts and the computer showed that he was plainly there on the morning of the 19th, checking in after midnight on the 18th and was there all day.
So they can lie all they want, but some things, like photographs and computers, they can't get past.
Now, again, what are the chances though of
This gentleman, Harry Everhart, who ran this operation of testing these fuel oil bombs and vehicles, and who's going to Congress to get money, now he just so happens to be there.
He's the guy that calls in the official story.
Right.
And of course, he made it official because we later proved, and on our Dr. Vicker video documentary, we showed that it was impossible that ammonium nitrate fuel oil even went off there.
And there are two blatant reasons, physically.
One is that there are flames that always accompany an anvil explosion.
And there were none inside the Murrah Building.
If you look at the videos today, you'll see that the only flames and smoke are coming from the cars in the parking lot across the street of the General Record Building.
And also, nitrate gas is always in the area, and without a gas mask, it's not safe to go in the area for up to an hour.
And this is Project Dipole Might, where they practice blowing up cars, van trucks, and a classified U.S.
program, and now new files and documents obtained by the Department of the Treasury through the Freedom of Information Act request the U.S.
government initiated a comprehensive ANFO and C4 bomb testing program
I mean, this is ridiculous.
We've got these high-level officers from FBI and BATF.
They're on the ground, but they don't want us to see the videotapes.
And we have police saying that the BATF was there two minutes after the bomb, saying, oh, we were told not to come into work today.
The whole thing has been a giant cover-up from three minutes after nine, that morning.
Even up to the point where they get these two clowns from Buffalo to write this book allegedly quoted to them by Tim McVeigh and in it they have McVeigh confessing to the impossible such as some of the things we just talked about.
Those two reporters, one was named Herbeck, I don't even like to quote the name of their book on the air anymore because it's just such a fraud.
I think it was fed to them by probably CIA or NSA or someone else out of Washington, D.C.
Fed them all this information.
I doubt seriously if they ever talked to Tim McVeigh more than 15 minutes, if at all.
They claimed they talked to him while he was on death row for 75 hours.
We'll be right back, stay with us.
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All right, folks.
The headline of the individual was Danny Colson, high-level FBI chief.
Headline, early arrival in Oklahoma.
Now, he told Newsweek and Time and everybody that why
He heard news of the bombing and there was bad weather in Dallas so he couldn't catch a plane that was like an hour flight.
Even though they went and checked the records and it showed that the flights were all flying, everything was fine, there was no wait.
He didn't buy the $55, $60 ticket for the less than an hour flight to Oklahoma City from DFW or Love Field.
He told Newsweek and Time, I drove and got there that afternoon.
I drove at speeds of 90 miles an hour.
Oh, turns out you checked into the hotel with your signature and everything.
Nine hours before the bombing, at least.
And, uh, it's admitted, though, from the government's own documents, records indicate that this ANFO explosives expert and his associates had destroyed at least eight vehicles in test bombing experiments at a secret range in the New Mexico desert twelve months prior to the OKC bombing, and that individual was Harry Everhart, and, uh, he'd been with some of the, uh, high-level White House, uh, organizations dealing with anti-terrorism.
Uh, the National Response Team, NRT,
Assigned to the National Security Council staff.
Funny, it was National Security staff that did the drill on 9-11 of flying hijacked jets into buildings.
Did you know that, Pat Shannon?
I had read that, and we find it, you know, quite perplexing that they would want to fund this ten years ago.
Well, the National Security Council staff, man, they're just... They just are always running the exact same drill at the exact same place as it happens!
Well, they're psychic, aren't they?
The magical... I've read articles about these guys.
Wow, they're... they're... maybe psychic.
Please continue.
Well, I was speaking about the two authors of the book about McVeigh.
The information in there, we are convinced did not come from McVeigh, or very little of it would have, and they just had him confessing to everything that the government would want him to say.
So take the full load before they so-called executed him.
Well, I just don't buy it.
And these two authors claim they spent 75 hours on the telephone with McVeigh while he was on death row.
That's a very dubious statement.
You know, it's difficult for anyone just in the federal penitentiary to get on the phone for more than 15 minutes.
Well, you can look at video.
McVeigh was drugged out of his gourd.
He also had a special doctor attending to him.
What do you mean on the execution day?
Even before that, he had a special psychologist helping him.
Oh yeah, that was the old MK Ultra Boy from California.
Yeah, a guy who came up in congressional hearings, Jolly and West.
Yeah, yeah, Jolly West.
Well, anyhow, I maintain that these guys hardly ever, if ever, talked to McVeigh.
They were fed this information from out of Washington D.C.
and they wrote the book as they were told to write it.
And to implicate McVeigh and Nichols and no one else.
But, I mean, for police out there listening, Pat, detectives, whoever, or people that have two brain cells, come on, you're not going to have all these top anti-terrorism guys and the guy that's practicing blowing up trucks full of ammonium nitrate on the ground right when it happens.
I mean, number one, that's impossible if they're not involved, obviously, and then number two, the police say they ran up to them and said, yeah, we were told not to come into work today.
Well, you know, since I wrote the article even just a week ago, I have uncovered a
Well, I'd uncovered him, but I now have an appointment with a former CIA operative who was a contract man within the Secret Service, ATF, and FBI doing various jobs.
You know, just to remind your listeners, and I'm sure you're well aware, the CIA was never supposed to do anything domestically since they were formed in 1947.
Strictly international espionage.
National Security Act.
Yes, well they got around that by not ever sending in their actual employees or agents in, but they would use contract men to infiltrate.
This man infiltrated the Ku Klux Klan in the late 80s and actually became Tim Tuttle's, Tim McVeigh's, shadow.
Uh, at that time, and met with him at gun shows and elsewhere, and was able to tell us a whole lot of information about Insight with McVeigh, but one of the most shocking things that he's told us that we're still checking out is that Oklahoma City was not the only target, and Little Rock, Arkansas indeed was a target up until the final day.
And that was one that they, I think they chose because McVeigh wanted to get a particular building.
McVeigh was involved.
Let's not, you know, let's not dodge that part.
But he was, he was very much a Patsy and was being used the whole time.
Well yeah, they take a guy, they sheep dip him and then he goes into intelligence and then they hang him out to dry, shoot him up with the drugs after they grab him.
That's the end of the story.
That's right, just like in Oswald.
Yeah, I mean they could have done even more I guess out in the open.
Maybe held him up in front of somebody dying of cancer and have the guy walk up and shoot him.
Yeah, but nevertheless we're still going to check out some of the veracity of this Little Rock story, but it's shocking in that this man has told us on the record, on tape, that
There were literally hundreds of people and a dozen federal agencies who knew very well that the bombing was coming down in Oklahoma on April 19, 1995.
We'll be right back.
We're on the march.
The Empire's on the run.
Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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We could talk about this for 10 hours, my friends.
We're going to go over some more of the evidence, then take your calls at 1-800-259-9231.
If you want to find out what really happened in Oklahoma City, my friends, there's a lot of great sources of information out there.
But my film, 9-11 The Road to Tyranny, for those of you that haven't seen it, goes into Nero burning around to blame it on the Christians.
Now it's admitted that the
Seeking of the Maine to blame it on the Spanish for the Spanish-American War with William McKinley's Navy.
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This is an official U.S.
government plan that got green-lighted as an operation until Kennedy said no to the plan.
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Submit it!
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Before we get back into your incredible article that does bring in a lot of new information and puts it all together with the older information, tell us about American Free Press and tell us about your book and tell us about the incredible work you've done, Pat Shannon.
Well, most of that can be found at my website, patshannon.com, and just remember that there are no O's in my Shannon, all A's.
Alex, only time I ever made all A's in my life.
But, yeah, it's www.patshannon.com.
And also, incidentally, on there, near the top of that site, first page, are the evidence from NBC's own clips.
of the
Well, Pat, I had an engineer family friend, Jimmy Wright,
Uh, who lives in Fredericksburg, but also lives in New York and Houston.
Uh, very prominent, and he's there in the World Financial Center.
He was on my show an hour after the buildings fell that morning, and he said, first hour, he said, the most beautiful controlled demolition I've ever seen.
No, it really was.
And then Building 7 wasn't even hit by a jet aircraft, and we've been at Ground Zero.
It's way far away from other buildings that Silverstein didn't own, but it catches on fire and falls.
And we got the firefighters telling AP reporters, get back, we're about to demolish it.
Then Silverstein comes out and says, we demolished it!
Yeah, one year later, he admitted it on PBR.
I mean, this is, I mean, folks!
Look, look.
For people that are listening to us, Oklahoma City.
You've got the head FBI people there on the ground, and then lying about it.
We've got, admittedly,
This head BATF bombing expert, who did seven different truck bombs out in the desert, and car bombs, he's there on the ground, and BATF runs up to cops, and the cops go, what are you doing in full bomb gear?
Two minutes after, they go, oh, we were here, we were told to get out of the building.
Now, that was lower level BATF, but obviously wasn't involved, and was again, thought it was part of a sting.
And they always use these drills as a cover, but Pat, give us a phone number or information, how we get your books.
Well, as I say, the best way is just go to the website and www.patshannon.com.
My new book that's just out in the last few months is called Maybe the People Have the Answers.
It's a history lesson.
I cover a whole lot of things.
Chapter 7, the final chapter, is all about the trade center deception.
But there's a whole lot since the war of federal intervention in 1861 of how we've been deceived by the federales and by government.
Many of the things, of course, with the captured news media, without people like you spreading the word.
We don't have a free press in America anymore, and that's very, very difficult for most Americans to admit.
Alright, let's go over some of your articles here.
Again, we've got this chief BATF guy, expert in truck bombs, gets a million dollars from Congress to test bombs.
He's there on the ground.
It goes, contrary to media reports, the World Trade Center bomb of February 1993 was composed of urea nitrate, not ANFO, according to the FBI.
It continues,
Despite only one known case in almost 25 years, why didn't Clinton's NSC, National Security Council, they just keep being involved every time, anticipate a need for detailed information regarding Anfo vehicle bomb attacks a few months prior to the Oklahoma City blast?
Treasury's own official documents reveal the intensity of interest.
In fact, a brief summary of Project Dipole Might is featured in the BATF's 94 Annual Report to Congress.
There were enough clandestine characters hanging around Oklahoma City to fill a James Bond movie during the days prior to the crime.
BATF's paid informant, Carol Howe, had provided information that the Murrow Building was one of the potential targets.
On April 6th, Kerry Gagen gave U.S.
Marshals in Denver the information that a federal building would be blown up
Either in Denver or Oklahoma City within two weeks, he had not only personally delivered timers and blasting caps to a Middle Eastern group, but had sat in on a meeting where the blueprints of the Murrah Building were on display.
Now again, these are these Iraqis, trained in the 80s as Republican Guard by our military, brought in by George Bush Sr.
and Clinton, that's Washington Times, LA Times, in 92 and 93,
Brought in to the U.S.
They're the go-betweens.
McVeigh's with them.
They carry out the bombing.
Police arrest them.
They're ordered by Clinton to release them.
They leave the country.
They're caught with bomb-making materials and blue jogging suits in their bags as they fly out of the country.
So again, the government likes to use these contractors, these go-between individuals.
Then, 38 minutes before the blast on April 19th, the Department of Justice in Washington received an anonymous telephone call warning that the Murrah Building was about to be blown up, but took no action.
And it goes on and on and on.
Please continue, Pat Shannon.
Well, that Cary Gagin is a very interesting character.
I've met with him and talked on the phone many, many times, many interviews.
He's back in jail now for some trumped-up charges.
We're not exactly sure what it is.
He's in Colorado, but it was to silence him.
We are certain of that.
Hoppy Heidelberg and an Oklahoma City
The investigative committee a few years ago got Kerry Gagin into Oklahoma City and put him on video.
And that was the grand juror?
Hoppe Heileberg was the grand juror who was removed back in 1995, that's correct.
And he has since formed his own investigation committee because he was intrigued by the whole thing.
I can tell you that Hoppe Heileberg knows as much about the deception of this case as anybody in the world.
And he and I are very close, and we talk often about it.
And he, of course, introduced me to Kerry Gagin when they finally tracked him down.
But Gagin has a most intriguing story to tell, and I'm not going to take up a lot of time this morning talking about it.
Once again, they can pull up my Oklahoma City section on the website and read the articles, the lengthy articles we wrote about him.
But he actually played both ends against the middle.
He was offered
A quarter million dollars by the terrorists to go into Mexico and meet with some European terrorists and pick up some timers and detonators and get them back across the line into the states.
The reason they wanted to use him is he was an experienced drug trafficker.
He admits that.
He says he was no choir boy.
But he did successfully get back across the border with them and he delivered them.
And he collected his quarter million.
Then he discovered, as an old jailhouse lawyer, that the Feds were willing to pay
Up to a $2 million reward for any citizen who would stop a terrorist attack.
So, Gagin, being an astute businessman, went to the other side.
He went to the U.S.
Marshals Service in Denver, where he lived, and he told them what was going on and could he keep the quarter million.
And they said, absolutely, no problem there, just keep talking with us.
But to protect himself, he was smart enough to get written
Permission from the U.S.
Attorney.
He actually got a letter absolving him of any crimes.
This mysteriously disappeared later, by the way, after Stephen Jones became McVeigh's attorney.
And Jones apparently is deep-sixed this letter, but we do have the copies and the evidence of it.
Well, one thing led to another, and Gagin was right up in the midst of this thing, and he was reporting, and as I mentioned, that April 6th report he gave to Marshalls was only the final one of many.
Alright, let me recap this.
They just ignored them.
Let me recap this for folks who just joined us.
We have this head BATF bomb expert who's got congressional funding from the National Security Council.
The same people that always run a drill of the exact same thing happening in real time at the very place it's happening.
That way if they get caught doing their work, it's just part of the drill.
This guy...
Well, I can't imagine there being any cops on the job that haven't already figured that out.
They would have to be all awfully naive.
Well, maybe this truck bombing expert just happened to be there.
I mean, maybe the BATF just happened to get a warning to get out of the building.
I mean, just, just maybe, you know, maybe pigs fly, Pat.
Well, who would warn them?
Don't forget, the government's cover story is that they were the target.
McVeigh was targeting them, remember?
Of course, nobody warned the daycare center.
That's right.
Why would you warn your target?
It's ridiculous.
Incidentally, backtracking a second, you mentioned the first Trade Center bombing in 1993.
Do you remember the date of that?
I'll tell you.
It was Friday, February 26th.
Two days before the hit at Waco.
Now, I don't have any answers to this, but I've always been perplexed.
Was one of those intended to be a cover-up for the other?
Well, that's what I've heard, yes.
A smoke screen?
Yes.
I think Waco was clearly the smokescreen.
And then again, we have our friends the BATF setting that up as well.
Uh-huh.
I don't know.
It's always bothered me.
Well, tyranny is when criminals take control of the government.
And now these criminals have these fancy space-age PR firms, and now they're getting rid of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution.
They're dismantling this country, Pat.
Everything we warn people about, I have this professor and top lawyer out of D.C.
on in the last hour, and she said, we are in a dictatorship.
This is a mainstream person.
She says they're taking over.
I don't think there's much doubt.
One of your guests last year, Don DeGranBray, talked about that.
Of course, he had like 30 years' experience from the Pentagon.
Let's take a call.
Let's talk to Fred.
Fred, where are you calling us from?
I'm calling from Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty.
Welcome.
Okay.
Uh, Pat, I wanted to ask you if, or Alex, uh, talk about, uh, the, uh, the video that was, uh, leaked from a, uh, uh, either police intelligence or a law enforcement person to a, a reporter in the, in the, uh,
In the Midwest area, and was later seized in a raid on the reporter's house, where I do not believe he was ever charged.
Yeah, no, that was a videotape of the truck bomb going off of McVeigh with a Middle Easterner.
He had it, and then that was grabbed.
Pat, I remember that report, that was mainstream news about a year ago, the Associated Press, but I don't remember the name of the reporter.
I thought perhaps he was speaking of the Sheriff's Office video that showed the removal of the unexploded bombs.
No.
I think Richardson might be the name of the reporter.
I'm not sure.
Well that's the problem.
It's an orgy of evidence.
We cover this stuff every day.
It was a subject of a lawsuit.
The gentleman wanted to...
There's another party that wanted to get a hold of that as a piece of evidence.
Another media person.
Well, I've had lawyers on who've done two lawsuits.
One of the lawyers knew about Oklahoma before it even happened, and they've been suing for years, and they declared national security on the surveillance camera tapes of OKC.
Just basically the substance of that video, isn't there a
Isn't there a lot of evidence in one or more videos of a large horizontal flame or fire at the base of the building right before the blast?
Well, again, all I know from the AP article a year ago, and thanks for the call, was that, just type in the headline, reporters home rated, OKC tape confiscated, that should pop up for you.
And we never really heard what happened, they just said that he did indeed have this video.
Pat?
Well, another evidence of the ongoing cover-up, Alex, because the case is over.
All the guys are convicted.
There's no reason for them to suppress this evidence anymore.
Period.
Except it shows our friends.
Except to protect their own, that's correct.
Yes, John in Oklahoma, you're on the air, go ahead.
Hey Alex, I have a question.
I've never heard this brought up by one person in my whole life, and it was my stepfather.
He was the superintendent of mines
Amex Mines in Missouri.
And he knew a lot about mining.
He's a very smart man.
And he made the comment, and it stuck with me forever.
He was in the kitchen watching this thing when it happened.
He said, that's the softest thing I've ever heard of, John.
You cannot bone your knife straight, bone it, explode unless you pack it way back in a hole and rock.
Just bone it, just burn.
You have to really, really, really contain it to get it to explode.
So they can't be used like that.
The only useful purpose of it is to pack it back in rocks.
They pack it in murals and it does work in trucks.
The problem is it's very unstable and blows up usually on your way there.
And on top of it, top generals, experts have looked at this.
The blast signature was the building blown out across the street.
Right.
Well, as part of the article, and the future articles will contain, concerning the cover of even the new museum, which is just a farce.
Yeah, stay there, John.
Let's talk about that after this break.
Stay there, Pat.
InfoWars.com, PrisonPlanet.tv.
And don't forget, PatShannon.com will be right back.
Hey folks, Alex Jones here.
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We have a moral responsibility, but even more than that, it's about survival to expose who's behind terrorism.
You know, Hitler firebombs his own Capitol building to declare martial law.
Putin blows up buildings to blame it on his enemies and take people's freedoms.
Our government does it.
We have official government plans, like Operation Northwoods, where they explain why they want to do this.
And then you look at the facts!
In every one of these big events, the feds are all over it!
And it's very, very serious.
John in Oklahoma, you're talking about a money of nitrate.
Actually, that's covered in my film.
That's covered in Pat's film.
That's been covered.
You know, columns further back got knocked off.
The building was blown out.
Pieces of it on top buildings across the street.
They removed unexploded bombs inside.
Pat Shannon, from your years of study of this, what's the clearest picture of why some of those bombs didn't go off?
I don't know.
I don't know why they didn't go off.
We just know that they did not.
And they were hauled out at about 10.30 that morning, an hour and a half after the incident.
All the rescue was stopped and ceased until afternoon.
I even got on video of Governor Frank Keating talking about that they found these unexploded bombs.
And all these bombs carry signatures.
And as soon as we are able to examine this, we'll be able to tell you exactly.
Very sophisticated device.
Pardon?
You called it a very sophisticated device.
That's correct.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, now in the museum, what I call, you know, furthering cover-up of the cover-up, they've got, they've refuted their own evidence, Alex.
They've got Venetian blinds that were actually hanging in the actual windows and they're blown out.
Uh, you know, explain to me how you got a bomb on the street.
Must have been a suck bomb, as one guy called it.
You know, to suck these Venetian blinds out the window, as it did.
It's just some of the absurd things that they want to sell us, but that's one of the powers of a propaganda machine in television.
They can do it.
Let's take a call.
John in New York.
John, go ahead.
Hello?
Yes.
Yeah, hi.
I just have a question.
I think she was a reporter for one of the papers or something.
That would be the lady from the Chicago Tribune who commented that she didn't think he was dead.
He appeared to still be breathing.
Right.
Okay.
You know about that.
Alright.
Okay.
I just wasn't aware.
There was another reporter from the Indianapolis Star Tribune who said that.
No, I didn't hear.
Okay.
I only heard it the one time and I tried to search for it and I couldn't find it again.
But I'm almost sure it was on that show.
Well, there were some other suspicious things going on with that execution.
They flew in an expert, yet Terre Haute, Indiana Federal Penitentiary is state-of-the-art.
It's an execution center.
Yeah, that's right.
And so why did they need to bring in an expert with different chemicals?
Because I know that she said also, she said, well, you know that already, but she said that they took the body out, would let nobody look at it, and I think they cremated him, kind of like quick.
Well, after getting, or at least publicly saying that he requested that.
Okay.
Do you think McVeigh is still alive?
I mean, there were a lot of prominent mainstream reporters that said as they took him out, his stomach was rising and falling.
Right.
That's what I hear.
What do you think, Pat?
Well, no, I can't say.
I did an Amusings article.
It's on my website.
It's archived under my Musings.
Well, I interviewed Craig Roberts, who's another private investigator in Oklahoma with quite the experience.
Yeah, Colonel Craig Roberts.
Yes, and I commented then that I didn't believe it, and by the time I got through interviewing him, I saw how it could have been possible, so they can read it there.
How what could be possible?
That McVeigh was still alive.
Oh yeah, they do that all the time.
I mean, the CIA has staged the death of thousands of special forces officers and they give them new identities, plastic surgery.
That's admitted.
Right, but my contention was that McVeigh was better off for them dead than alive.
And Colonel Roberts showed me how I may not have been correct on that.
Yeah.
Alright, well thank you so much for the call, John, in New York.
We've got next hour Daniel Hopsinger.
Coming on to talk about his incredible work in exposing the guy who's going to be our new Homeland Security Fuhrer.
Pat Shannon, I want to get you back up soon, my friend.
Okay, thanks very much.
I'll be traveling this month and doing some other investigation on the Oklahoma thing.
When you finish the book, why don't you have your lovely Violet let me know.
Alright, my friend.
Godspeed to you.
We'll be back with the third hour of transmission.
Stay with us.
Introducing... Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
We got Daniel Hopsicker coming on.
We tried to call him, his circuits were busy, but I just tried to call him and the phone was ringing, so try it again.
He's made a lot of just incredible documentaries, written just hundreds of great reports exposing government drug dealing, government involvement in terrorism.
Last hour we were talking to Pat Shannon from American Free Press about, well,
A secret government program that's been made public of blowing up truck bombs out in the New Mexico desert in the year before Oklahoma City.
And the very person from the BATF running that program, the very person running that operation, was on the ground right when the bombing happened in Oklahoma City and called the media and everybody telling them it was an AMFO fertilizer bomb.
I mean, it's just, it's amazing.
It's amazing to see this type of stuff going on.
But now we have Michael Chertoff appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department.
And he may have shielded, this whole process may be about shielding from criminal prosecution, a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden while in charge of the U.S.
Government's 9-1-1 investigation.
And the interesting thing about all of this is just like General Mahmood Ahmed, the second trip in his life to the United States, the head of Pakistani intelligence, meeting with Porter Goss and others, as the planes flew into buildings in the morning of 9-11.
And then it turns out, it's admitted, New York Times, Washington Post, that he wired $100,000 to Mohammed Adam.
And then he's hanging out with Goss, who becomes your new CIA chief.
It's like the head of NORAD who had to certainly know about the stand-down, General Frank Eberhardt.
He then becomes the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff.
All of these guys who were intimately involved in 9-11, in the stand-down, in the cover-up, or involved in it itself, are now being promoted to all the highest positions.
And it's very, very, very serious when you see how they're putting these individuals into place.
Now we're going to break here and come back and a lot of stations join us after the news and we'll bring up our guest who again, I've been watching his videos for years.
He's done so much really important work exposing the New World Order and the globalists and government drug dealing, you name it.
And he's been on the cutting edge of exposing people like Michael Chertoff and has done a great investigation of the gentleman who's going to be obviously our new Homeland Security Chief.
And his connections to 9-11 and to organized crime, you name it.
So that's all coming up after the break.
The website, check out these fine reports and look at some of the videos that have been produced by Daniel Hopsicker is madcalproduction.com.
That's madcalproduction.com.
And I suggest you go to that website and get hard copies of his documentary films.
He has been kind enough to allow us to post it on prisonplanet.tv.
And so, one of his newest and best videos, Mohammed Atta, on the Venice Flying Circus, is posted there for anybody that wants to go up to PrisonPlanet.tv.
So, when we return, we will get into this detail.
I mean, it is lengthy.
That's why I like Hopsicker's reports on things, because he just nexuses so many different points together, and follows the money trail, and you'll get an idea of what a monster Michael Chertoff is.
just in his own business activities and in the people he defends and the people he prosecutes and what he does.
Then there's a whole other area that we discussed in the first hour with professor and lawyer Ellen Castle getting into how
Mr. Chertoff, like Gonzalez, is the architect of torture, architect of the Patriot Act, you name it.
These are very unsavory, dark characters that we're talking about, and we'll detail it on the other side of this quick break.
So stay with us.
On the other side, we'll talk to Daniel Hopsegger.
Stay with us.
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All right, my friends, we're now 8 minutes and 25 seconds into the third hour.
of this January 12, 2005 edition.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We're joined by documentary filmmaker, researcher, Daniel Hopsicker, and I'm again honored to have him with us.
The website is madcowproduction.com.
That's madcowprod.com.
We have a link to it at infowars.com and prisonplanet.com.
Daniel, it's great to have you on with us.
Hey, Alex.
Pleasure to meet you.
I heard a lot about you.
Well, I'm impressed.
I saw your Mohammed Adja and the Venice Flying Circus.
An interesting name, but the film details why you gave it that name.
And I want to talk about 9-11 some today, but I first off want to get into your detailed report.
about Michael Chertoff because I've been researching Chertoff for years and it was great to see a lot of the things I've independently confirmed and more pulled together in one spot on your website with this detailed, I don't know, 10-15 page report.
But first off, tell us about Daniel Hopsicker and then let's get into why you've been interested in Mr. Chertoff.
Well, you know Alex, nobody's interested in me.
I'll give you 30 seconds, you know, quickly.
I was a business news producer who went astray when I went out to shoot a pilot for a show that I thought would update in search of Leonard Nimoy.
For the paranoid nineties, don't you know?
And the story, uh, I was told by my social producers on featuring on the pilot episode concerned, um, the deaths of two 17 year old kids in Arkansas who stumbled onto a drug drop late one night in 1987.
And, um, you know, when I got down there instead of a 10 minute, um, story on a half an hour, um, pilot, silly pilot, by the way, I realized
You know, that I had a story in front of me that I needed to treat with the utmost seriousness and with everything I could bring to it in terms of, you know, both skill and intelligence.
That's right, you're one of the pioneers, one of the first to report the details of mean Arkansas and the drug trafficking there.
Well, actually, I'm probably one of the last.
I remember right after it, you know, seeing you reporting on it.
Yeah, I got some things right.
So, let's talk about Chertoff for a minute.
So, long story short, Alex, I wrote a book about Barry Seal, Barry and the Boys, and so developed an unintended expertise in CIA aviation crime.
And of course, after September 11th... Okay, then here's what happened.
September 11th was unique to me because three days afterwards, when it came out that three of the four terrorist pilots had learned to fly in the retirement community of Venice, Florida, I went through something really hanky about that.
And I already knew that because my parents bought a retirement house in Venice, Florida in 1977.
77-78, and I've been coming down to Venice to see him for 20-25 years, to see mom and dad for 3-4 nights during the winter, and it's like leisure world here.
So why would a 30-year-old man, even if he is a terrorist, especially if he's a terrorist in the last year of his life, come to leisure world if he could train, say, in Miami?
Yeah, let's get into that.
And then later I want to get into the Flying Circus because you went and interviewed the locals, you talked to people right next door to these hangars, all these different CIA connections there locally.
Yes, yes, and I'm proud of the job I did doing it.
I was the only person, Venice to me, Venice, Florida, was the biggest September 11th crime scene that wasn't reduced to rubble.
It was where the terrorist conspiracy hung out for far more longer than the FBI would want us to know.
And if they had associates that we would want to know more about, this would be the place to find them.
And so, you would think, wouldn't you, that after some immense national tragedy like September 11th, that there would have been a hundred investigative reporters knocking on Muhammad Ata's next-door neighbor's door and asking, what was he like?
Who did he hang out with?
Who picked him up?
Nobody did.
Nobody did.
Everyone... I mean, it was so clear to me, as I'm sure it was to you, that there was a official media clampdown, blackout, whatever you want to call it, immediately after September 11th, and no real news filtered out after the first few days.
Now enter Mr. Chertoff.
I mean, there's just all sorts of things this guy's involved in.
Yeah.
You know, and this stuff is not that hard to find, is it?
So let me give you 30 seconds on how we found this out.
One of the young people that helps me out here became interested, and he did research, which is something most people don't do, and he decided that he was going to track down the names and addresses of the terrorists
on the FBI list that was inadvertently released by the government of Finland after September 11th.
So, he discovered that one of the suspected terrorists on the list shared several addresses with a man who is today, or was until recently, the military attache at the Moroccan Embassy in Washington, D.C., Colonel Arara.
And he thought that was pretty odd, and so we investigated it, and we ended up doing a story about it.
And while we were doing that story, we became aware that Muhammad Abba had relatives in Orlando.
And so we were
um... alert to the possibility that he may have, he might have had other relatives in the U.S.
and of course that's where Chertoff comes in.
We became aware of the doctor, I don't know how to say his name, my head, El Amir, who is a neurologist in New Jersey and he's a neurologist in New Jersey whose HMO was
busted out to the tune of about 45 million dollars that New Jersey taxpayers had to pay to pick up with this guy left.
And yet he was never charged with the crime.
And he was never charged with the crime because one good reason was he had probably the best criminal defense attorney in New Jersey and the most well-connected, a guy by the name of Michael Chertoff.
And so we began looking a little more closely at Dr.
He had been named in an intelligence report that went before September 11th to the head of the House International Committee who thought that it was a verifiable report and passed it on to the FBI.
And this report said that this doctor was sending millions of bucks to Osama Bin Laden from this HMO he was busting out in New Jersey.
And then we have Michael Chertoff protecting him as his lawyer.
And then we see the same story with General Mahmoud Ahmed, the head of Pakistani intelligence, with $100,000 to Mohammed Adda, meeting that morning with Porter Goss at the Capitol.
I mean, it's like everybody Bush puts in place, whether it's General Eberhardt and NORAD, at every level the people involved in cover-ups are put in higher level positions.
Correct, correct.
You couldn't be more accurate in that statement.
In fact, it actually gets kind of funny.
I mean, there's two attitudes you can adopt towards the way things go here in this country.
One is that of constant outrage, and I subscribe to that, and the other is you've got to be a little bit bemused by it occasionally.
So, for instance, when President Bush appointed Henry Kissinger the initial head of the 9-11 Commission,
I thought that he was attempting to illustrate his capacity for irony.
And then, when he appointed Asa Hutchinson to head the DEA, I thought, how splendid could that be?
Asa Hutchinson was the U.S.
Attorney in Western Arkansas.
I mean, I've interviewed CIA officers who were there unloading the cocaine.
It's not a secret.
Yes.
Extremely slick, extremely intelligent, extremely smooth, a consummate operative, isn't he?
And that's been Vinny's day all over.
So these are guys that are so plugged in, you know, they don't even know they're plugged in, you know?
They don't know anyone that's not plugged in.
So Chertoff, who is going to be in charge of what?
Protecting us, right?
Protecting America, was defending
A guy who has all kinds of strange connections.
Sending money to Al Cieda.
Correct.
Correct.
And then, Alex, it gets worse, okay?
Because if you think about it... It always gets worse.
Yes, it does.
It does.
Everybody's entitled to defense.
Chertoff would just say, hey, I was, you know, I didn't know he was a terrorist at that point, you know, and I was, you know, that's my job, to defend people.
That's where our Constitution says you get.
But then, after 9-11, Bush appointed him head of the official 9-11 investigation, and
There
That was the first time I saw the complete outline of some of what was going on, because the deal that Dr. Amir's buddy was trying to cut in New Jersey before it got busted was called typical by federal prosecutors, and that deal was oil and heroin for guns and training.
Ah, well I'll tell you what, stay there Daniel Hopsicker, incredible information.
Connecting the dots on the other side, stay with us.
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We're talking to Daniel Hopsecker, documentary filmmaker, researcher.
His website is just full of a lot of powerful information.
You'll definitely want to check it out.
It's madcalprod.com, or the abbreviation of productions, madcalprod.com.
And he's been really kind enough to allow us to post his documentary film online at PrisonPlanet.tv, Mohammed Adda and the Venice Flying Circus.
I want to get into that later in the next segment and also tell listeners how they can get a copy of that film and some of his other great videos that I've been a fan of for years.
But Daniel, continuing with Michael Chertoff.
I mean, he is the... Right, right.
Let me give you just, because you've been on him for years, but for the last two years,
He testified right after being named to head the investigation.
This is just three weeks after September 11th, early in October.
He testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee.
And if you remember back then, I mean, we were all scared.
I mean, I was scared.
And I think he spoke a little more of the truth than he would have liked.
They were arrogant back then.
Well, I don't know.
I don't know if they were or not.
So what did he say?
Well, he said, frankly, he said he can't distinguish between drug smuggling and terrorist activity.
The two blend in together with the mob.
And that's what they were going after.
They were going to follow the money, right?
So it wasn't but a few months after that that we discovered, down here, that during the same month
So, Chardoff is running off his mouth about we're going to file the money and drug smuggling and, you know,
And this was the same, a week later, President Bush... And again, folks, tell them who that individual you just mentioned is.
The man that owned the flight school that these terrorists came to learn to fly in, ostensibly, Wally Hilliard, the same month they got here, July of 2000,
You've got the documents, you've got the interviews, I mean it's totally obvious
Exactly.
Right.
I mean, you know, it didn't take a genius to see it.
It is.
I guess it took an idiot to stick with it.
But, you know, Bob Woodward should have been all over this.
The story that these terrorists moved through the U.S.
unnoticed is baloney.
Muhammad Ata and his gang were here at the invitation, behest,
With the acknowledgement of the U.S.
government.
And I think the reason their presence was tolerated was because they were making somebody a lot of money.
Yeah.
And again, there's just so many different connections.
You go into some other things about Mr. Chertoff.
Yep.
What specifically?
There's just so much here in your detail report, and I've seen some of it here and there over the years, but you've got one of the most detailed ones I've seen here.
Just all his connections, it just goes on and on.
Yeah, what Chertoff was doing in New Jersey defending this man is the same thing that we see happening in Boston where
An officially protected, um, FBI protected terrorist activity was allowed to continue after September 11th.
This is exactly the same thing that, um, FBI translator whistleblower Sybil Edmonds, um, I believe is speaking about when she says that there was a protected drug smuggling activity, um, by a quasi-governmental organization going on in conjunction with the terrorist network.
This is what they were protecting.
And she was being ordered to go back and falsify transcripts.
I don't know what she was ordered to do, but I do know that when I first heard her allegation that she had seen documents proving that there was an officially protected drug smuggling activity going on in conjunction with the terrorist network, I knew that was the same thing I'd seen in Venice.
I mean, that was the same thing I've been seeing, you know, in Venice, Florida.
I mean, 43 pounds of heroin is a huge amount.
I mean, it's major trafficking, and you have to ask yourself, you know, what was going on?
And then you realize that your own government is telling you that Osama Bin Laden basically ran Afghanistan before 9-11, and Afghanistan was producing two-thirds of the world's heroin back then, and even more now.
So, if you're running that international activity, aren't you going to want to sell your dope into the world's richest market?
We'll be right back.
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We're talking to Daniel Hopsicker, documentary filmmaker, and again, on PrisonPlanet.tv, he's been good enough to allow us to post it there, at PrisonPlanet.tv, his documentary film, Mohammed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus.
Daniel, for folks who want to get a hard copy of
That particular film, or any of your films, tell us about some of your great videos, some of your presentations, some of your investigations, and how folks get those.
Well, it's all at madcowprod.com, our website.
That's what keeps us going, that keeps us researching.
What we have right now, I don't know if you even know this, I mean, I did, I shot a two hour long interview with Muhammad Ata's
American Girlfriend.
Yes.
And we've rolled an hour of that now on to the end of the Muhammad Ata video, so if you order a hard copy of it, that's what you get.
You get the extra hour of just watching a girl talk about things she saw, you know, in a very offhand way.
Because it wasn't any big deal for her at the time.
It didn't become a big deal until, of course, after September 11th.
It's powerful, it's powerful information and it's madcalfraud.com, a lot of different films and professionally produced information.
If you don't have web access or want to call, there's an 800 number.
It's 800-556-2012.
Give that number out again, please.
800-556-2012.
We're going to give that out again before you leave us here at the end of the broadcast in about 25 minutes, but I want to get more into Muhammad Anna and the Venice Flying Circus, because the film's incredible.
I mean, the CIA there locally, what they're doing, the connections, it's totally obvious.
But I want to bring up a few other points.
It's admitted that the FBI paid for homes, cars, credit cards, that informants live with hijackers on both coasts.
That they were at U.S.
military bases and they were out creating a ledger or a history at private flight schools.
I mean, it just goes on and on and on, but all that has come out in the mainstream news, but it's back in the newspaper or on some obscure MSNBC archive.
Why hasn't more of this come out?
You know, and sometimes it comes out and then immediately dies.
And that's how you know the story's been killed.
For instance, just four days after September 11th, all the big papers, or most of them, Newsweek, Washington Post, the Miami Herald, and the Knight Ritter newspapers all reported that six of the hijackers, including Muhammad Ata, had attended secure U.S.
military facilities, schooling at secure U.S.
military facilities.
They never denied the story, but it was dropped like a hot potato.
Pensacola Naval Air Station, and then you and others have reported, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but there were people with the same names as hijackers, even looked like them, who were training other Arabs at U.S.
bases who then died in mysterious accidents?
There have been any number of strange things happen.
What I'm personally aware of is the intimidation of witnesses down in Florida.
Tell us about that.
If... Alex, just look at it this way, okay?
Otta lived for three months, almost three months, with a... with a... what was then a pink-haired stripper, okay?
Now, after September 11th, you're the National Enquirer.
I mean, you go nuts for that story, right?
You know, I saw a side moment, you know, of Muhammad, no one else saw, said stripper girlfriend, you know?
And she's got incredible details, and yet...
We couldn't get that story reported anywhere except in the German media.
The biggest German newspaper picked it up for their six million readers.
So if you're German, you can find out about the nightly drinking and cocaine and drug-fueled three-day weekends in Key West that supposed Islamic fundamentalist, Muhammad Ata,
And his buddies went on, and the most... Yeah, and they're handing their cards out, and leaving Korans at the topless bars, and their magic passports fall out of the sky, and... Alex, here's the most amazing thing she said, okay?
I mean, she wasn't, she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and she wasn't paying totally close attention, but, I mean, she told about, almost nightly, okay?
A half a dozen of Ada's closest associates while he was in Florida weren't Arab.
They were German and Swiss.
These are people he went out with nightly.
These are people he went to a meeting.
We just lost his phone.
Isn't that interesting?
Is his phone still connected?
Disconnect and call him back.
That happens every once in a while.
And again, folks, this is up on PrisonPlanet.tv for members there, 15 cents a day.
We've got the film, but I suggest you get a hard copy from Daniel Hopsicker.
His film, The Hamanata and the Venice Flying Circus, it just goes through all the CIA people, all of it.
I mean, it's just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
And then don't forget what we were covering in the last hour.
You've got this head BATF guy who's part of a secret U.S.
government program, now public, congressional documents, of blowing up truck bombs and van bombs and car bombs, seven of them out in the New Mexico desert, in the months before Oklahoma City, and then he's on the ground, when it goes off, outside the building, and calls the media and the BATF within ten minutes saying it's an ANFO bomb.
What's the chances of that?
It's the same M.O.
over and over and over and over again.
We have official U.S.
government plans like Northwood's to carry out 9-11 style attacks with planes.
And we're just supposed to ignore all of this?
We have Daniel back?
Alright.
We'll deal with this here in a moment.
But it's just mind-blowing.
It's mind-blowing how serious things have gotten.
And then you've got Mr. Chertoff
Hanging out with one of the biggest admitted funders of Al-Ciada.
He's off representing him.
He's off just Nexus point, connection point after connection point.
And it's the same thing with the entire cabinet.
We got Condoleezza Rice calling Mayor Willie Brown up the night before.
Her good friend from when she lived in San Francisco was on several boards with him and saying, don't fly to New York tomorrow.
We got the Joint Chiefs of Staff telling Newsweek that after the attacks, they weren't in the loop.
Saying, hey, we got told not to fly to New York tomorrow.
We got Salman Rushdie being told you can't fly to New York for the next few days for your safety.
On and on and on.
Daniel, mysteriously, your phone went dead there, my friend.
Yeah, it must have just been a glitch or a ghost in the machine.
I'm not important enough to mess with.
I'm sure.
But you were continuing there.
Now this pink-haired topless dancer who was living with Alice, he said, these Anglo guys, these white guys,
Are showing up, hanging around, and we were told these were Muslim extremists, but they're all out partying in U.S.
military bases and doing drugs.
And the Germans are operatives.
I mean, I've traced some of them.
They're people with elaborate cover stories, you know.
I met the girl, I met the woman I'm with when I sailed into Bombay after being blown across the, you know,
The East Indian Ocean on a worldwide sailing trip.
You know, that kind of stuff.
And of course, Atta himself, we discovered, was in Hamburg on our dime.
On your dime and my dime.
For four of the seven years that he lived in Hamburg, he was supported by something called the Congress Bundestag Program, which is a joint US-German program.
But let's expand on that.
When several of the hijackers, or the decoys, went to a Malaysian Al-Qaeda summit, and I've even interviewed the folks from the embassies, ladies and gentlemen, they were ordered to let them back in, give them visas again, even though they had gotten on the terrorist watch list, the CIA is saying you let them back in, and even before that I interviewed Mr. Springman,
Who was in Jeddah, the head embassy chief there, and letting other terrorists in, and he was told this is part of a terrorism trainings thing that they're doing in the U.S., at secure U.S.
military bases, let them in, it's a CIA operation!
Right, and back on the Chertoff front for a moment,
My buddy Sander Hicks did an interview with Randy Glass, I believe, in which Glass said that his investigation was shut down.
That had already led to, you know, people that were trying to buy Stinger missiles for heroin.
And then the CIA and FBI agents that tried to stop these people, they got reprimanded or fired, but those that held up the investigations got record cash bonuses in 2002.
There you go.
There you go.
I'll tell you what, if there's one ray of light here, it is this.
There is not a huge pool of operatives, apparently, from which to draw.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing things like naming Chertoff head of Homeland Security, or Robert Mueller head of the FBI.
Very astute.
In fact, I'm going to interrupt you.
I'm going to steal your thunder.
This is what I say every day.
You're on point.
And I'm going to bring up a totally different example, and then please go back to your point.
But I want to reinforce, and I'm glad you're saying this.
Nobody else is saying this.
They were going to have these tribunals at Camp X-Ray.
The head general, Rick Baucus, quit, says, I'm not going to torture.
They've had, what is it, five different prosecutors and defense lawyers quit and say, these people are innocent.
These aren't even real trials.
They can't even have fake tribunals now.
So now the CIA and State Department last week announced, okay, no trials ever, executive order, we're just going to hold you for life.
So the good news is, you're right.
It is a very small group, so it's hard for them to operate.
Please continue.
You're absolutely right.
They're extremely smart, they're extremely good, but I believe they can be beaten because sooner or later everybody's going to see through it.
The more we expose them, the more we get involved, the more fires they've got to put out.
And now I've noticed they can't even counter us half the time now.
They're losing all credibility.
Daniel, I mean, six, seven years ago, half the callers called me a kook.
Now the show's 50 times bigger.
No one calls in disagreeing.
I do interviews everywhere.
I mean, I think we've turned the corner with the minds of the people.
You know, and also where I see that is in the election story, in vote fraud.
Four years ago, on the eve of the 2000 election, I was waiting for my book, Barry and the Boys, to come out and having nothing better to do, I went out to shoot a documentary based on some wacky friend's idea that American elections
are not as open and honest as we all know them to be.
Four years later, pretty much, that's a commonly held sentiment.
You know, four years ago, when I first realized, when I first saw that this idea wasn't wacky, you know, I was floored by it.
And then, of course, your reaction after that is, oh, well of course, you know,
Let's go back to when I interrupted you.
You talked about him not having enough operatives for these 9-11 type things.
Sure, and I can bring up just one quick election example for you, okay?
In 2001, one of the guys whose activity spans 9-11 and the election is Adnan Khashoggi, Saudi billionaire, Adnan Khashoggi.
He and a couple of unnamed Saudi billionaire buddies of his, through a shell company in Bermuda, owned the company that counted American servicemen's votes overseas until 2003, when it was exposed.
And when it was exposed, they real quick sold the company, moved the company because it's parked.
I'm sure your listeners know what it means to park a company.
Offshore, dummy corporations.
Well, here's what it is.
If you're a mob boss and I'm a mob boss and I've got a girlfriend and no place to put her and you've got an empty condo, you say, well, you can park her in my apartment, in my condo.
I mean, she's my girlfriend, but she's in your condo.
So that's what it means.
They moved the election company from the Saudis in Bermuda to, of all companies, they sold the company to Accenture.
Which is the disgraced remains of Arthur Anderson, the people that made possible the $13 billion rip-off of Enron.
Yeah, they're always changing the name, just like DynCorp gets caught kidnapping children, and caught, convicted, and so they just change their name and get even bigger contracts.
This is incredible.
Daniel Hopsinger, what do you see their big game plan if they're not brought down, this organized crime?
What will the world be like in five years if we don't stop?
You know, let me be honest with you, Alex.
The answer to that question is, first of all, it eludes me.
And second of all, it's probably, you know, if it didn't, it's way above my pay grade, okay?
I just try to stick to what's going on on the ground.
You know, I don't know.
Here's what I'm upset about, okay?
In the major events that have occurred in my country in my lifetime, I don't have a clue as to what happened.
The Kennedy assassination.
Well, I mean, of course, we know now, but we didn't then.
Watergate, we still don't know what that was about.
We're always being lied to!
Yeah, and then September 11th happened, and it was the most god-awful event, as everyone knows, in the history of the world.
Right?
And, um, and I'm not allowed to know, you know, what happened.
Because, clearly, the story of September 11th is something happened, then something else happened, and then September 11th happened.
And I'm not allowed to know what went before.
And then we disprove every major pillar of their official story, and then they never come back and tell us why they lied to us.
You know, I have two postulates about what happened September 11th.
I mean, obviously, we were doing business with Osama Bin Laden, dirty business, heroin business, and somebody was making a lot of money, and that somebody on this end isn't an Arab.
And then, either at our behest, because they're our boys, or as a double-cross, which is also possible, September 11th happened.
But to me, the fact is, these hideous, hideous people,
We would not have been here if we had an honest government.
Well, you are a journalist, pure and simple, and I engage in journalistic endeavors, but at the same time, I am a pundit, a political person who talks about these things, and from all the evidence, and I think we could get a conviction, and we could show this to a grand jury and then to a jury, just in a 30, 45 second nutshell, this is what went down.
Because they do this in Oklahoma City.
First World Trade Center bombing.
They do this over and over again.
They tell everybody it's a drill.
We know this happened because in case they get caught and the compartmentalization wall falls down, they can just say it was a drill.
You've got these Arabs who are these double agents who have been here and been trained and protected.
They're told they're part of a drill.
We know they were flying around, quote, testing the hijacking.
Mr. Woods and others saw them.
They think they're on board the aircraft as part of a drill.
This is what I've got from high-level government sources.
The people on board the plane are knocked out by something.
Remote control takes control.
They fly them into the buildings.
Then they plant this whole big official story.
And basically that's from all the evidence.
The clearest direction that everything points.
We know their official story is impossible.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't agree with you, but it's okay that I don't agree with you, because we both agree that...
We haven't been told.
Well, where do you think it all points?
Well, you know, here's what I think.
Muhammad Ata hated us.
Muhammad Ata hated us bad.
Muhammad Ata was a psychopath.
Muhammad Ata, when his girlfriend kicked him out, when his stupid girlfriend kicked him out, came back when she wasn't there and slaughtered her six baby kittens, left kitten parts all over the apartment, gutted the mother cat.
So you think they found psychopaths and then opened the doors for them?
Um, I know, I know that he was enough of a psychopath to uh... Stay there!
We'll be right back.
Stay there, we'll hear about it on the other side.
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No, I'll stand my ground.
I'm sorry to all the callers, loaded phone lines.
We haven't been taking calls this hour because news has been too important.
But we're going to have Daniel Hopsicker back on in the near future.
I was talking to Daniel during the break, and I said, well, what do you not agree with in my theory, as you can see?
And he says, well, I agree with a lot of it, just not all of it.
And I'm interested to hear specifically what you don't agree with, Daniel.
Um, I think Mohammed Ata knowingly flew a plane into a building and hooded Marwan al-Shahi.
Um, no one questions, you know, I mean there are suicide bombers every day in the Middle East and in Israel.
No one says, no one ever questions their motive.
No one ever says, well the guy, the guy... Okay, then what do you think I'm saying that's right?
Because obviously all the doors were open for them.
All the rest of it, all the rest of it, all the rest of it is that... So they're government agents, they're in drills and what, they were supposed to be part of the drill but made it real or what?
You know, here's what we're both saying, is the true story remains to be written.
And this is the biggest, there has to be something
Really monstrous to have covered up so assiduously, okay?
Something that half the planet watched live.
And, I mean, the majority... See, 20 years after Kennedy's... It took 20 years after Kennedy's assassination before a majority of Americans said that the government wasn't telling the truth.
And now, 40 years later, it's 90-plus percent that the government did it.
Well, here we are just three years after September 11th, and I'm sure it's a solid majority that... Well, seeing it end in a poll, 90 percent believe the government was involved.
Sure.
The Zogby poll is 50 percent.
You know, I believe the government was involved to the extent that these terrorists were here at the official behest of the government.
I mean, Zacharias Moussaoui can teach us something in his rantings in federal court.
He says that any time he got pulled over, they ran his name through the national crime base and they came back, you know, go your way, can I polish your headlights?
Have a good day.
And he thinks that's what happened to Atta when Atta was pulled over on three or four occasions.
Yeah, exactly.
So we know they opened the door, funded him, trained him, and then we don't know what happened.
Clearly, we can't see 100% there in those last few minutes, but bottom line, Daniel, they're using all of this to take our rights away, and none of this has anything to do with terrorism, and they're setting up a total police state.
And certainly that's one way to look at it.
I don't know if I'll ever know the real truth, but I know I'm going to keep looking for it until I either find it or realize I'll never find it.
But America is turning into a police state.
Well, here's the deal.
We're supposed to be a democracy, Alex.
Okay?
I mean, we have no free press.
Okay?
The essential prerequisite of any democracy, any democratic republic, is an informed citizenry.
The people perish for lack of knowledge.
Give folks that number one more time to get Muhammad Ata and the Venice Flying Circus or any of your other great films.
It's 800-556-2012.
Sure.
One more time.
1-800-556-2012.
The website is madcowproductions, madcowfraud.com.
Alright, thank you so much for coming on with us and thanks for letting us post your fine video that fills in a lot of the blanks, a large part of the puzzle pieces.
That's there at prisonplanet.tv.
God bless you, Daniel.
Look forward to talking to you again, Alex.
Have a good day.
You bet, my friend.
A very interesting researcher.
Again, mainstream TV producer in the past and just really gets in there and covers a lot.
I suggest you go to PrisonPlanet.tv.
There's one more reason if you're online to go get a membership for a month or a year.
A monthly membership, $5.95.
A yearly membership, you save a large portion of that.
Fifteen cents a day, my friends.
Why not go to PrisonPlanet.tv?
Or if you're not online, be sure and call Mr. Hopsicker and get yourself a copy.
I'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
Please tell your friends and family to tune in.
And back tomorrow, from 11 to 2 Central, if you want any of my videos, big discounts still going, 1-888-253-3139, 888-253-3139.
Alright, God bless you all, until we see you back here again, live in a few hours.
Arch!