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Filename: 20070222_Thu_Alex.mp3
Air Date: Feb. 22, 2007
2186 lines.

Time	Text
	Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	Well, so does he.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	We first interviewed him almost three years ago, and he's been on the case for a lot longer than that.
	Yesterday, at the end of the broadcast, my radio producer walked in with the Salt Lake City Tribune headline, Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
	Here is the Desert News headline, Nichols says bomb was FBI op.
	We've known this from a massive mountain of confirmed evidence.
	Since just months after the horrible attack that killed 163 people back in 1995...
	But now, Jesse Trinidou, on the trail of who murdered his brother in federal prison, Kenneth Trinidou, and we have the horrible autopsy photos up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, a successful attorney and lawyer counselor in his own right.
	And I just got in touch with him this morning after I learned of this last night.
	I went on coast-to-coast AM and covered it.
	And he joins us now for the next 30 minutes, and I hopefully will be able to line him up for an hour early next week so we can get into more detail.
	He's given us some of the documents, the case.
	Those are going up on InfoWars.com right now.
	This is bombshell material.
	Literally, maybe once a year will my heart start beating faster with the story.
	That's happening right now.
	So joining us is Jesse Trinidou.
	Thank you so much for joining us, sir.
	Thank you for having me.
	You, if I'm not mistaken, were the first one to broadcast this story back in 2004.
	Well now it's really broken wide open thanks to your work.
	We've got three minutes before break and we'll come back in detail at all, but just out of the gate, tell us in a nutshell about yourself, about your brother, how you got involved in this case, and now the prison interview you did with Larry Nichols, it's unbelievable.
	Well basically my brother was killed a few months after the bombing.
	He had
	Been convicted of a federal crime back in the late 70s, had done his time.
	He was paroled in 1988.
	He had a dispute with his probation officer about drinking beer.
	We challenged that and lost.
	A couple months after the bombing, my brother is driving across the border.
	He lived in San Diego.
	He'd been over visiting friends in Mexico.
	He's arrested, supposedly, for parole violation.
	At the time, we didn't understand that it didn't make sense.
	We assumed that was what it was for.
	In hindsight, now it's clear that wasn't the case because the judge who sentenced him was in San Diego, the crime was committed in San Diego, his probation officer was in San Diego, any parole hearing would have to be in San Diego.
	So he was sent to Oklahoma City for some reason and was dead two days later and we never had
	A reason for it.
	Now they claimed it was suicide, but he again had electrical burn marks, cuts, and bruises over his entire body.
	It is truly grisly.
	He was clearly tortured to death.
	His throat was slashed.
	In all while in federal custody.
	And the government said they tried to have his body cremated before we saw him, and then finally
	We get him home but we never had a motive and that was difficult to say to people why the FBI especially would have killed him and tortured him.
	Now we're going to get to that later but in the process of your investigation you've now got the documents that the affidavit has been sealed so you can't talk about certain names but before it got sealed by the feds in a desperate attempt to block this evidence from coming out we do have the names we do have the information because you were able to tell
	Uh, different news reporters about this, in particular the Desert News, Desiree News, before that happened.
	So we're going to go over this after the break, but I want to get into how you got in contact with Larry Nichols, why he's now gone public, and by the way, his story fits exactly with what the FBI, police investigators, and many others have brought forward in the
	What, 11 plus years since the OKC bombing in 1995?
	Our guest is Jesse Trinidou.
	We'll be back after this quick break to detail this.
	This story is ultra massive and incredibly important.
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
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	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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	He's the T-Rex of political talk.
	Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	It is the 22nd day of February, Thursday, 2007.
	One of the most important broadcasts I've ever done.
	It was almost three years ago that I interviewed
	Jesse Trinidou, his brother Kenneth Trinidou, was murdered.
	That's how this lawyer got on the case.
	And my God, does it fit him with all the other evidence we have.
	Unfortunately, it shows that the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow building was an inside job.
	Here's the headline out of the Desert News.
	And, uh, before the filing was sealed, the reporters were able to see it.
	Now, uh, our guest is unable to specifically talk about the filing.
	And, uh, the most shocking allegation, the 19-page signed declaration by Nichols, assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instructions from...
	Former FBI official Larry Potts, who helped run the Ruby Ridge debacle, very senior, personal friends, very high level with the then FBI director.
	McVeigh also said he was part of a secret military assassins team who've been recruited out of the military.
	That's exactly the MO we have from state police, local police, detectives, and FBI.
	This is absolutely off the charts, incredible, and guess who got in and got this affidavit?
	It is the man we're speaking to right now, Jesse Trinidou, got in to see Larry Nichols, and that is a saga in and of itself.
	Let's walk through it, pleaser.
	Basically, I didn't start out to solve the Oklahoma City bombing.
	I started out to find out who killed my brother and why.
	It all started in the
	Probably December of 95 or January of 96 and I got an anonymous call.
	The caller said that my brother had been killed by the FBI, that it was a case of mistaken identity, that it was an interrogation that got out of hand, that my brother fit the profile, the caller said.
	Of a group who were robbing banks and to fund the tax, get the money to fund the tax on the federal government.
	So somebody had a conscience and called you?
	Called me.
	And of course I dismissed it.
	I thought it was far-fetched, unbelievable.
	And then about six months later I read a story in the Los Angeles Times about a man named Richard Lee Guthrie who was found hanging in his cell while in federal custody.
	He was supposed to give a tell-all interview the next day before he died.
	About the Oklahoma City bombing.
	He was a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang.
	And the story said he had robbed banks to get money to attack the federal government.
	And they didn't have a photograph of Guthrie, though, just the story.
	And then shortly before he was executed, I received a message from Timothy McVeigh, who told me that when he saw my brother's photograph and heard what happened to him, he knew that the FBI killed my brother because they mistook him for Richard Lee Guthrie.
	And Guthrie, I believe, was John Doe, too.
	In the description for John Doe II, when my brother was picked up, was white male, 5'9", powerful upper body build, dark complected, believed to be in Canada or Mexico, driving mid-1980s Chevrolet pickup, dragon tattoo left forearm.
	My brother comes across the border in San Diego in his friend's 1986 Chevrolet pickup,
	Five foot nine, powerful upper body build, dark complected, dragon tattooed left forearm.
	The only other person I know of with that description was Richard Lee Guthrie.
	So they clearly killed your brother and Guthrie in prison with the same classic hanging?
	Hanging.
	Unbelievable.
	Please continue.
	Well, as I said, it was difficult.
	To convince people my brother had been murdered, because no one likes to think the government of the United States does those kind of things.
	But we have the autopsy photos, please describe those.
	Well, he was head was smashed to the skull in three places, his throat was slashed, a stun gun burns all over his body, even the soles of his feet are bruised from being beaten.
	He was beaten head to toe, front to back, tortured extensively, and then he was, we now know, was strangled with a pair of plastic handcuffs after they'd beaten him to a pulp.
	And obviously he couldn't tell him anything because he didn't know anything.
	But that started me on the quest to, like I said, I didn't start off to solve the bombing.
	I started off to find the men who killed my brother.
	But every trail has taken me back to the bombing.
	And that's when I filed that lawsuit here in federal court in Utah, asking the judge to order the FBI
	To produce all documents related to a failed sting operation they were running in a white supremacist paramilitary training camp in eastern Oklahoma called Elohim City and that led to the bombing.
	It got out of hand.
	Let's walk through how you were able to get in touch with Nichols, how he tried to contact John Ashcroft, how the media was then blocked from ever being able to reach him, how you were able to get in and what Larry Nichols told you.
	Well, Terry Nichols reached out to me.
	Apparently, before he contacted me several years ago, he had written to Attorney General Ashcroft, volunteering to tell everything he knew about the bombing and the others involved.
	Not only did no one from Attorney General Ashcroft's office follow up with Nichols, they actually issued, apparently, an order barring him from all contact with the media.
	It was thereafter that he reached out to me, and I was able to get in to see him.
	I spent a day and a half with him.
	Describe how he reached out, what you had to go through to be able to meet with him, and what happened in that hour and a half meeting.
	It was a day and a half.
	Day and a half, excuse me.
	Basically, I was able to come in under the radar.
	I'm sure that if I'd known why I was there, I would never have gotten in.
	But you're a lawyer, you're a counselor, that probably helped you.
	I'm sure it did, but the real story is that this man apparently wants to tell his story.
	Now, I can't assure your audiences that what he says is true.
	You, sir, have more knowledge about the... I mean, you're relating things about the history of the bombing case that I wasn't aware of.
	So, you apparently have studied this a long time and know a lot about it, a lot more than I do.
	Well, I made my first film about it in 1997, but I've just interviewed literally hundreds of experts.
	On the subject, now I know they've sealed this, but we can talk about what the press has reported and any other facets you feel comfortable in getting into.
	What did Larry Nichols tell you?
	What's in the affidavit?
	That I don't feel comfortable talking about, but this I can tell you what is already out there in the public record as a result of this lawsuit that led me to go see Mr. Nichols.
	Sure.
	When you sue under the Freedom of Information Act,
	For documents, government documents, there are two exemptions that are bulletproof that you cannot get around, that you will not get the documents.
	National security and... No, that's actually three.
	The other two are if there's an ongoing criminal investigation or if the government has promised anonymity or confidentiality to informants.
	I was fearful that the FBI would come back and say they had reopened the investigation, in which case I would have gotten nothing.
	Instead, they came back and told the federal judge that they had promised confidentiality to four informants and please not to turn over any documents.
	Well, the judge said he would allow them to black the names out.
	But to turn the documents over.
	And the documents show that the FBI's informants were robbing banks and armored cars with Tim McVeigh to get the money to construct the bomb.
	And that one of the four informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught them how to make the bomb.
	Now to be specific here, this could be creating the history, the ledger, and this is what McVeigh said, they were staging fake robberies to create the illusion that it was an organic domestic group that was going to carry out the attacks.
	Classic black ops, where they go out and engage in criminal activities as a smokescreen.
	That's basically what some of the things that Nichols said.
	Sure.
	Classic black op, gladio type op.
	Please continue.
	The, as I said, the documents are, it's not me making this up, the documents show that at least as recently as two days before the bombing, that they actually called Elohim City asking for help, and this was reported by one of the informants, that four months before the bombing, another informant had not only reported the plan, but had said that they had actually scouted the target.
	Well, Hal was one of the informants earlier, and she tried to warn them, and then they tried to arrest her and charge her, telling her to shut up.
	They did prosecute her, but she wasn't convicted.
	Yes.
	I understand.
	Please continue.
	And, uh, so many of these things have, uh, I would not have gotten where I am today on this, but for people have, and I don't know who's, who has done it, had leaked me copies of, uh, records.
	There's a lot of feds that don't like killing kids in a, in a daycare.
	They're not going to put up with it.
	And that made my case in front of the federal judges.
	I had, unknown to the FBI, I had two copies, two documents already about this operation.
	And so when I asked for the records, they came back, the FBI did, and reported to the judge that there were no such documents.
	And then I filed those two copies, and then the FBI came back and said that they were fake, and I had an affidavit from an FBI agent who said they were real.
	And with that, the judge lost all patience with the FBI.
	They had no credibility with him.
	And then later, didn't it turn out that similar documents and some of the same documents had been released before, but without some of the names blacked out, and then that proved they were real?
	Yes.
	Yes, they found a way out through another source, apparently.
	They never denied the documents.
	They now conceded.
	And when they were ordered to produce them, to do a manual search, they came back and produced about 100 pages of them.
	Where does it go from here?
	I mean, where does your suit go?
	How much danger is Nichols in?
	Quite honestly, I'm afraid, I'm surprised he's still alive.
	Not only is my brother dead, Guthrie dead, I had an eyewitness to my brother's murder and he was found hanging in his cell too.
	People have a habit of dying off in this case.
	But I guess you've got a
	Serious beefs.
	You're way past Karen.
	They murdered your brother.
	That, and I was smart enough to not keep anything a secret.
	That as soon as I, and I'm thankful to your show and others like you, sir, that this story get out there because to me that was my best insurance policy.
	Oh, my heart was beating this morning just to get you on for my safety.
	I mean, I know you cannot keep this type of stuff secret.
	You got to get it out immediately.
	That's your insurance policy.
	And I was surprised how quickly they were able to get everything sealed.
	Final segment with you, sir, after this quick break.
	Other key facets we'll walk through and delineate here with our guest, attorney-at-law Jesse Trinidou, whose brother was brutally tortured to death, Kenneth Trinidou.
	The bottom line is, no man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on a-coming.
	Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonnell, we'll be right back.
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	I called our guest at about 8 a.m.
	this morning, my time, and he was already at the office.
	He's been there since 5 a.m.
	Mountain.
	He's very exhausted.
	A lot of filings.
	He's got his own practice, of course.
	We really appreciate him spending time with us to come on today, and we're trying to get him on for longer next week.
	In the five minutes we've got left, Jesse Trinidou...
	Where is your case going now?
	What's going to happen with this 19-page affidavit that has been filed?
	And what are some of the materials you sent us today that we posted on InfoWars.com?
	Well, first of all, again, Mr. Jones, I want to thank you for, may have been the first, I think you were the first person to report this story back in 2004 and didn't say it was crazy.
	What I filed that affidavit for was to get an order from the judge to allow me to take the deposition of Terry Nichols and to videotape that deposition.
	That's the only way his story will ever get out there.
	Good Lord, you have a video?
	No, I said that's to get an order to allow that to happen.
	Oh yeah, okay.
	To order the government to produce him and let me take that deposition and videotape that deposition.
	You cannot tell that whole story in a declaration.
	You cannot tell, he's made that very clear to me.
	I know you'd like to be able to tell us what you learned in a day and a half of interview with him.
	The more important things are the documents that were attached to that affidavit that were sealed too.
	Some of them were from, most of them were from the FBI and some were from Tim McVeigh's defense team outlining exactly what happened.
	So the defense team knew?
	Yes.
	But Steven Jones didn't bring that out?
	I don't think they were allowed to bring it out.
	If I recall correctly, and I wasn't paying attention to the trial, that the judges would not allow any evidence of other people being involved.
	Well, bottom line, Nichols and yourself are in grave danger while this is sealed, and I know you can't violate this federal proceeding in a seal order, but I mean, these documents, you just said it, the defense detailing inside job, did the federal documents detail that?
	I read them that way.
	I read them as others involved.
	Bottom line, your educated inside view of this, off the cuff, why do you think the government was involved orchestrating this?
	I don't know if they intended it.
	I think my feeling is that the FBI had
	Fumbled the ball so badly at Waco and Ruby Ridge that I do remember this, that they were under constant pressure and criticism from Congress and from the media and from the public.
	The ATF was close to being disbanded.
	I think they put together this harebrained idea at Elohim City to lure in all these militia groups under the pretense of teaching them how to rob banks and armored cars and attack the federal government.
	And I think they planned to catch them in the act.
	I don't, for a moment, think they intended
	The bombings take place?
	Well, that's what the BATF tried to leak and claim.
	The same thing every time they get caught in England with British Intel carrying out attacks, they always claim they just missed it.
	And let me tell you, sir, I've studied this.
	They may tell some of their BATF that showed up in bomb gear a minute after the bomb went off, but for the insiders, they meant to bomb it the whole time.
	You know, that building was blown from the inside out.
	I'm not an explosive instructor, but my personal view is that it got away from him.
	Well, either way, they're culpable.
	Oh, yes.
	I mean, you can't.
	To me, I think you stepped way over the line when your informants are robbing banks and armored cars.
	Well, did you see the report out of the Orlando Sentinel where the Nazi rally was led and organized by an FBI informant?
	I read that report.
	I mean, I've seen this a hundred times.
	In fact, I've never really seen a big case where it isn't the Feds running it.
	Well, my experience, at least in this case, has been whenever you have three people who get together to criticize the federal government, two of them will be informants.
	Absolutely.
	We've got about a minute and a half left.
	Any other key points you'd like to add, sir?
	Other than that they've not denied it.
	I mean, the accusations I made against the FBI are that they set up this operation, that they had informants who robbed banks with McVeigh to fund the attack, that they had an informant who was the explosive instructor and taught them how to make the bomb, and they got away from them.
	They have not once denied those accusations.
	They have just begged this federal judge not to order the release of the documents.
	Now, clearly, if I made those accusations against you, wouldn't you have denied them?
	Absolutely.
	Then we have Danny Colson who claimed he got up there in just an hour or so from Dallas by car with the hotel receipt that he was there the night before.
	One other thing I might add is it's my understanding that the BBC is going to run an hour special on the bombing and perhaps the government's involvement.
	It's going to be a total whitewash.
	I was in the 9-11 piece last week.
	I don't know.
	I didn't see it.
	I haven't seen it yet.
	It's supposed to be the 4th of March.
	Okay, we've got 20 seconds left.
	Any other points, sir?
	Other than I expect a hell of a fight from the Department of Justice over that deposition.
	Trying to keep it sealed indefinitely?
	Not let it happen.
	Not let me be able to take Nichols' complete statement.
	What's the time frame on getting that statement?
	Whenever the judge hears the case and orders.
	And rules on the motion.
	Thank you so much for your courage, Jesse Trenadue.
	Let me talk to you for one minute off air.
	Thank you for joining us.
	We're on the march, the empire's on the run.
	Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
	The disciples asked Jesus in Matthew 24, What shall be the signs of thy coming, and the end of the world?
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	Again, I just think about my job, what I do.
	This morning as I was scrambling, setting up this guest and reading news articles and going back and doing research, refreshing my memory.
	I just literally almost hit my knees and thank God that I'm in this position.
	I never thought that I would be a radio broadcaster internationally.
	I never thought I'd be a newshound.
	I never thought I'd be doing what those old gumshoes did long ago, what the straw hat reporters did.
	And here we are, 21st century, frontline muckrakers engaging the New World Order at point-blank range.
	It's scary too to do what we do because we're going toe-to-toe with these guys.
	We're going against them 110% to bring them down.
	I would have been all over this story and been on the phone with Trinidou yesterday and I would have had Trinidou on coast-to-coast AM with me last night.
	I didn't even think to call coast-to-coast AM to get on the show.
	I didn't think to even call Trinidu, even though he was in the article, and I broke the story, as you heard him say, because I was too busy down at the law office filing lawsuits on someone, which makes me even madder at them for the lies they put out, and I have to spend all this money to get my good name back!
	So.
	Excuse me.
	Excuse me.
	It just makes me angry!
	Because my time is so precious!
	I am so frustrated because there's so many things that I need to do.
	So many things we need to get done.
	Don't want to explode here on air.
	Alright.
	There is so much happening, so much going on.
	We've got Kevin Barrett in studio.
	The Wisconsin professor who's been all over national, international television exposing 9-11.
	And then I don't even know now if I want to have that Cliff Kincaid, neocon, conservative clothing on in the third hour, but I've got him coming on just so you can hear the type of stuff these people put out.
	So that's coming up.
	And there is just so much going on.
	I don't even know what to say.
	Let me just read over these articles now to give you some more background on Oklahoma City, because this is a direct line into 9-11.
	Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
	Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official apparently was directing Timothy McVeigh and the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack according to a new affidavit filed in U.S.
	District Court in Utah.
	The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma.
	Nichols claims in the February 9th lawsuit.
	Affidavit for the lawsuit.
	And let me just add, I was talking to Jesse Trinidad during that three minute break, and he added some more points.
	He said that he was out of time, he had to go to court, but that he never has been called a kook, never been called a liar, never been demonized by the FBI.
	They're just desperately trying to ignore him.
	Well, the ignoring him is over.
	The ignoring him is over.
	The official and other conspiracists are being protected by the federal government.
	Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, to protect the informants, such as social security numbers and dates of birth.
	The U.S.
	Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations.
	The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C.
	also declined comment.
	Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
	The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City Attorney Jesse Trinidou, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing.
	The lawsuit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the Federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trinidou for a bombing conspiracy
	And that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
	No, that's not what he says.
	FBI went in and killed him and tortured him to death.
	Trinidad's death a few months after the April 19th, 1995 bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations.
	The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing of the death.
	Why didn't they publish the photos?
	I know for a fact Trinidad gave him the photos.
	They're up on InfoWars.com.
	He's got the double point shock
	Wounds all over his body, under his arms, of course we don't post these, but genitals, feet, huge, what looked like electrical burns where the prods weren't working, so they just hooked something up to a wall outlet, slit his throat, beat his whole head in, just, I mean, this guy's purple from end to end.
	In the app to David Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack, the Alfred B. Murrah building.
	Which took 168 lives.
	He alleges that he wrote then Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help him identify all parties who played a role in the bombing, but never got a reply.
	Nichols, serving a life sentence at the U.S.
	Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado.
	McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
	McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing.
	However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
	McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols.
	He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in the bomb target, and it was going to be Nebraska, Omaha, Dallas, they were looking at different places, that there had been a change in the bombing target, and McVeigh was very upset by that.
	There, in what I believe was an actual slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh and the bomb plot, Nichols says in the affidavit.
	So again, two newspapers have seen this, now they shield it.
	Too late!
	Too late!
	Too late!
	Too late!
	Too late!
	Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer of weapons and explosives.
	He later learned that the robbery was staged, so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
	He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a protected witness, and there's federal documents.
	Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
	Again, they did the research Tuesday.
	This came out yesterday morning, Wednesday.
	It's now Thursday.
	In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb.
	The evidence that he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and displayed a level of expertise and sophistication that neither man had.
	There's a lot more than what this article put.
	You just heard the lawyer who's got the affidavit filed and did the day and a half of interviews with him.
	Now let's read the DesertNews.com story.
	All these are up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com with a whole bunch of pages of documents, federal documents, for the first time being posted at InfoWars.com right now.
	In fact, I'm told they've been up for 30 minutes.
	Man.
	Nichols says bombing was FBI op.
	Boy, that's an interesting headline out of a mainstream newspaper.
	Detailed confession filed in Salt Lake about Oklahoma City plot.
	The only surviving convicted criminal in the April 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building in Oklahoma City is saying his co-conspirator, Timothy McVeigh, told him he was taking orders from a top FBI official and orchestrating the bombing.
	Let me say that again.
	...him that he was taking orders from a top FBI official in orchestrating the bombing.
	A declaration from Terry Lynn Nichols filed in U.S.
	District Court in Salt Lake City has proven to be one of the most detailed confessions by Nichols to date about his involvement in the bombing as well as the involvement of others.
	The declaration was filed as part of a Salt Lake City attorney, Jesse Trinidou's pending wrongful death suit against the government for the death of his brother in a federal corrections facility in Oklahoma City.
	Trinidou claims his brother was killed during an interrogation by FBI agents when agents mistook his brother for a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing investigation.
	The most shocking allegation in the 19-page signed declaration is Nichols' assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation and that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instruction from former FBI official Larry Potts of Ruby Ridge fame.
	Potts was no stranger to anti-government confrontations, having been the lead FBI agent in Ruby Ridge in 92, which led to the shooting death of Vicki Weaver, the wife of separatist Randy Weaver.
	Potts also reportedly involved in the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas in 93, which resulted in the fire that killed 81 Branch Davidian followers.
	He's now a former FBI agent, by the way.
	He was an FBI agent, former retired, post-retired from the FBI under intense pressure and criticism for the cover-up of an order to allow agents to shoot anyone seen leaving the Weaver Cabin at Ruby Ridge.
	When contacted, the FBI's main office in D.C.
	said it would not provide immediate comment on Nichols' claims Tuesday.
	Nichols claims that in December 1992, McVeigh told him that while he was serving in the U.S.
	Army, he'd been recruited to carry out undercover missions for the Secret Assassination Squad.
	What did I tell you, folks?
	Men formerly associated with Special Forces.
	In the next few years, I've had these guys following me and, you know, even threaten me.
	Hey man, I'm an American defending the Republic.
	You do whatever you need to, criminals.
	And you'll see what they'll do to you later.
	In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot in October 94.
	You think it's manly to kill people, don't you?
	Kill good people.
	You tell me you got God to deal with, punks.
	In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot.
	In October 1994, McVeigh and I stole explosives from a quarry in Marion, Kansas, consisting of 8.5 cases of boxes containing 229 2.5-inch sticks of gel-type explosive known as Tovex.
	Again, they told everybody it was fuel oil.
	Ha ha ha!
	Nichols wrote, adding that only a small amount was used in the actual bombing.
	It was while traveling the gun show circuit that Nichols claims the two obtained bomb-making knowledge and materials used in the bombing.
	And of course that was an FBI informant teaching them for the diversionary bomb.
	There were bombs inside.
	One example is that McVeigh allegedly...
	Attended a gun show in Knob Creek, Kentucky in 93.
	At this gun show, McVeigh had the opportunity to make contact with about 20 people who were bomb experts.
	McVeigh told me that he himself had no knowledge about how to construct a bomb, but that he always wanted to gain more knowledge about how to conduct bombs.
	He struck bombs, Nichols stated.
	Nichols says he knew McVeigh was building the bomb in November 1994.
	He left for the Philippines to get away from the area to avoid being implicated.
	I did not want to be present when McVeigh did explode a bomb.
	Consequently, I left for the Philippines to be out of the country, he wrote.
	This is basically the newspaper whitewash of all this, folks.
	Now, the statement contradicts findings by Congressman Denna Rohrabacher, who studied the bombing and has made public last year it indicated nickels had traveled to the Philippines to receive bomb training from impossible foreign terrorists.
	Yeah, that's the Republican fallback.
	They had Iraqi Republican Guard clearly involved.
	This is how black ops work, folks.
	You got white supremacists, you got militias, you got sheet-dipped Special Forces McVeigh, you've got bank robbers running around.
	But you've got Arabs at the scene and those videotapes have been sealed, but I've interviewed the police and others and FBI's on record saying they saw the sealed surveillance tapes showing the Arabs.
	So then it gets so confusing, you're like, did the mob kill JFK?
	Did the military?
	Did the Cubans?
	No, they're all involved.
	That's how black ops work.
	You have different levels of deniability.
	Then you got bombs inside that Jane Graham, who was the head of HUD, was going through one of the maintenance sides to get up quicker.
	She was late to work, and she saw guys drilling the columns, planting large sticks of gray butter the day before.
	After hearing about the bombing of the Federal Building, which killed 168 adults and children, Nichols said he panicked when his name came up on the radio and he wanted to turn himself in, but not before hiding evidence, including explosives, using the bombing.
	The claims made in the declaration have added yet more twist to the mystery surrounding the bombing.
	Some familiar with the bombing's history, St.
	Nichols' claims seem to indicate the FBI put McVeigh up to the plot as a draw for radicals, but that the situation got out of control and McVeigh became a runaway informant.
	That is not what happened.
	That's their fallback story.
	It always is.
	I mean, how many of those British bombings, oh, we didn't stop it in time.
	Then you turn out the guy cooking the bombs, British intel.
	The guy driving it's British intel.
	We've had those men on the show, by the way.
	After reviewing the declaration, Rohrabacher told the Desert Warning News that Nichols' claims should be investigated, but a tree with extreme skepticism.
	I need to caution people to remember that Terry Nichols is a mass murderer.
	Of course, Rohrabacher, a month ago, was on CNN going, there's a conspiracy, a cover-up of Oklahoma!
	Clinton, Clinton!
	Clearly, Clinton was involved.
	But this goes deeper to the black-op government.
	Ruby Ridge was planned under George Bush Sr.
	George Bush Sr.
	brought in the nearly 3,000 Iraqis.
	Clinton brought in almost 2,000 more.
	They were trained here by the CIA in the 80s, brought back in at the end of Desert Storm.
	Source, Washington Post, LA Times, Social Press.
	Then there's stuff like this, WorldNet Daily.
	Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?
	Hotel receipts show top terror man showed up nine hours before blast.
	Danny Colson was in the DFW of Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex area and he said that oh he couldn't get on the Southwest Airlines in time to fly up there so he drove and got there in a record two hours but then people reported he was there in less than an hour after the bombing.
	Now that's on record.
	Then it turns out he checked into a hotel
	Nine hours before the blast, the FBI's top counter-terrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alpha P Murrah building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNet Daily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.
	The Embassy Suites Hotel Danny Colson, then director of the FBI's Terrorism Task Force, founding commander of the Bureau's Hostage Rescue Team, was dated April 19, 1995 with a check-in time of 0.20 or 1220 AM.
	Military time for 1220 AM.
	His last name is spelled COLSON on the receipt, but it indicates he is with the FBI located at 50 Penn Place.
	Yeah, they misspelled on purpose.
	The truck bomb exploded at 9.03 a.m., devastating half the building and killing 168 men, women, and children.
	According to the receipt, Colson checked out of his hotel room at 4.06 April 27th at 11.16 a.m.
	Now get ready for this.
	They now have spun it and admit it.
	The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the F.B.I.'
	's official denial of prior knowledge of the O.K.C.
	bombing was first reported by J.D.
	Cash of the McMurton Oklahoma Daily Gazette, a small town paper that has been out front in the stories and O.K.C.
	related reports.
	Since the bombing, listen to this, officials at the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the F.B.I.
	had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah Building.
	My paper said Wednesday, however, evidence of Colson's clandestine trip fits squarely with substantial bodies of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained via Freedom of Information Act requests.
	The paper is evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counter-terrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups that considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of our nation.
	So there's their spin.
	They were shadowing them, yes.
	And helping them rob banks, too.
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
	My new film, Terror Storm, is complete.
	Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
	Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
	Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
	Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
	It's an anthology of government crimes.
	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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	Coming up in studio, Kevin Barrett out there fighting the New World Order toe-to-toe, exposing the inside job that is 9-11, his new book, 9-11 and American Empire, Christians, Jews, and Muslims Speak Out.
	Before we end this hour, I do want to remind all of you that I'm a documentary filmmaker.
	And my film, Road to Tyranny, was the first film out on 9-11.
	I put out an emergency version of it that was only available for a few months.
	Two weeks after 9-11, which was just a presentation with video clips, then three months later, in early 2002, I released the three-hour film, which right under three hours,
	45 minutes of 9-11 The Road to Tyranny is the definitive documentary on Oklahoma City alone.
	Surveillance tape of the Iraqi Republican Guard hired by the CIA, brought in by George Bush Sr.
	In case locals caught them, they were going to claim Arabs did it.
	And I've interviewed the police, the state police.
	They even arrested them.
	They had bomb-making materials, the blue jogging suits.
	They had the surveillance videos from the surrounding areas.
	I had police surveillance.
	They shot in the weeks before.
	You also had white supremacists involved.
	All these groups, so they could blame different groups for it later.
	But it was entirely a government bombing with a diversionary provocateur truck bomb outside with explosives inside blowing the building out.
	General Benton K. Parton's in the film.
	All the clips, all the documentation, the newscast where they're reporting unexploded bombs and they're removing the bombs.
	Governor Keating breaking it down.
	You need to get road to tyranny just for the 45 minutes of the almost three hours.
	We start the film with a history of government-sponsored terror.
	We then go into Oklahoma City.
	We, of course, go into the attack in 1993 where the FBI cooked the bomb, trained the drivers, provocateur-ed the whole incident with the attack there.
	And then of course we go into 9-11 where they can't count on provocateurs anymore or patsies.
	They just totally staged the event themselves and we walk through that and then show you why they wanted to do it, the police state and the wars they wanted to start.
	And we said in the film in 2002 they're going to invade Iraq and they're going to invade other countries, Iran, Syria, because we went off the PNAC, documents themselves.
	Early 2002, it is a testament.
	The film just gets better with time, more and more accurate with time as things flesh out.
	You need to get 9-11 The Road to Tyranny if you don't have it on DVD or VHS.
	It's over three hours with the extras.
	But the film is close to three hours and it's got about, what, 30 minutes of extras at the end that I did.
	Because it's more of a second edition later in 2002.
	There's only been three editions of it, but that's the final edition of Road to Tyranny.
	All three of my Police State films are now in a box set for $34.95.
	That's 45% off.
	Police State 2000, which shows the Marines trying to put you in camps, admitting they're trying to take your guns and put you in camps, and the FEMA camps, and the whole Police State grid, then Police State 2, the takeover, then Police State 3, total enslavement.
	Yes, we are.
	Almost 10 hours of footage on those three DVDs in one box set available at InfoWars.com.
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	Those are now available at InfoWars.com.
	And your purchase of these items not only gets you more informed and to have these key tools on your shelf in your library, it supports what we're doing here in my growing staff and the different operations we've launched against the globalists in our war against their tyranny and dehumanization.
	The toll-free number to call and order the films as well is 1-888-622-9000.
	253-3139.
	That's 888-253-3139.
	And you can also write to me, I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
	And don't forget all my films, you can watch them right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv, Great Activist Center, PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Get your membership today.
	Second hour, 70 seconds away with Kevin Barry.
	Copies of the preceding broadcast are available at GCNlive.com or call toll-free 877-376-45.
	What?
	Mainstream media.
	Big Brother.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	We're going to be opening the phones up in this hour for your calls.
	Our welcome to be on government-sponsored terror.
	You can talk about how our loving criminal government staged attacks on Iran in 1953, now declassified to overthrow democratically elected Mohamed Mozadek.
	We can discuss 9-11.
	We can discuss the first World Trade Center bombing.
	Huge Oklahoma City news breaking.
	We've got Kevin Barrett in the studio.
	I've interviewed him several times over the phone, but he's here in Austin for a speaking engagement, talking about his new book, 9-11, American Empire, Christian Jews and Muslims Speak Out.
	We have links to his websites and organizations up on Infowars.com right now.
	For stations that just joined us, we had a massive newsmaker,
	Interview in the last hour.
	It broke in the news yesterday.
	You heard the lawyer on.
	We had him on three years ago covering this.
	Jesse Trinidou, but now the affidavit from Terry Nichols.
	The headlines, Nichols says bombing was FBI operation.
	Another headline, Nichols McVeigh had high level FBI help.
	This is so big, we need to continue this discussion in the shower.
	We're going to get into 9-11, but as it comes out, as more and more evidence comes out that Oklahoma City was a black op as well, everybody I was on Coast to Coast AM last night is saying, including George Norrie, this is a direct confirmation and only strengthens
	We're good to go.
	We're good to go.
	We're good to go.
	Well, what do you think about this Oklahoma City news?
	Well, it's mind-boggling, isn't it, to see the, you know, Deseret News, these mainstream newspapers, having headlines, saying, look, FBI behind the bombing.
	I mean, I never thought I'd see a story like that.
	It's amazing.
	I don't know what they're going to do.
	It's coming out in mainstream news in England that the Brits have staged almost all terrorism there.
	It's coming out that our government's staging attacks, refunding the insurgency in Iraq to keep the war going.
	It seems like everything's being revealed.
	It does seem like that, and it makes me think that we're kind of in a race here between the forces that are exposing these things, and you're at the head of those forces and you have been for a long time.
	And the people who need to cover them up as a survival strategy.
	And I just don't know what they're going to do to try and keep the lid on this, but I sure hope it isn't as over the top as some of the things they've done in the past.
	Well, they keep saying we're going to wake up and have a mushroom cloud.
	I pray that's not the case, but if there is one, the first place we've got to look is Pennsylvania Avenue and the Pentagon.
	Well, that's right.
	We already have polls showing that 36% of the American people say that 9-11 was an inside job.
	And 84% believe they're being lied to.
	That's right.
	So how many people are going to believe it if they concoct some story about another big attack?
	That's what I've been saying since day one.
	This is to save lives and the Republic.
	And hence the world, because we're being used as an engine of global hegemonic domination and empire.
	If we don't expose who's behind the terror, folks, they're going to win.
	That's right, yeah.
	It's an all-out struggle using truth as our weapon.
	And I think truth is really the best weapon there is.
	When I debate these guys on the other side, they don't really feel it.
	They don't have the energy that comes from telling the truth.
	And that's one reason that they can't defend this indefensible official story of 9-11.
	I agree with that.
	They don't have the energy, the life force, the truth on their side.
	That's right.
	The force is not with them.
	Yes, sir.
	There's less and less of it for us with them every day as these things keep coming out.
	Absolutely.
	I tell you, it's scary though.
	It's scary because they're like cornered badgers.
	I don't know, cornered floppies.
	Hey, badger's a noble animal.
	I'm from Wisconsin.
	That's our mascot.
	They're cornered rats, Alex.
	They're cornered rabid rats.
	Or cornered rabid pumbas.
	We'll be right back.
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
	Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
	Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
	Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
	Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
	It's an anthology of government crimes.
	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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	Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	It is 8 minutes into the hour, the 22nd day of February, 2007.
	Kevin Barrett, Professor Kevin Barrett, Author Kevin Barrett, Speaker Kevin Barrett, is our guest.
	9-11 Truth Crusader is our guest in studio.
	Hey, don't say Crusader, Alex.
	I'm a Muslim.
	Hey, that name has multi-uses.
	I know, I know.
	And I'm taking that word back.
	That's right.
	We need to take that back and launch a real crusade for the truth.
	There's a good side to that word, too.
	That's what we're doing.
	I said that as a little bit of a double entendre they could say or a pun.
	How did you wake up to 9-11?
	Then let's go to the latest 9-11 developments, then let's open the phones up.
	You're also going to be speaking at the First Universalist Unitarian Church this evening, and they're going to show 9-11 Press for Truth, and the details are up on InfoWars.com concerning that.
	But tell us about Kevin Barrett and your awakening, how you woke up.
	Well, you know, I wish I'd woken up earlier.
	I wish I'd been listening to your stuff and watching your DVDs, Alex.
	But it took me two years to see that the evidence was so overpowering that it was worth devoting my life to trying to expose this.
	First, for the first two years, I saw a lot of unanswered questions and problems in the official story.
	But it wasn't until I saw Terry Mason, the French author, just decimate this Pentagon spokesman on Al Jazeera in fall 2003, I said, wait a minute, you know, what's going on here?
	The story that Maison's putting out about the inside job at the Pentagon needs to be looked into.
	And then I heard that David Griffin was writing a book about it.
	Griffin is a very careful, button-down kind of academic who doesn't get into stuff like this very easily.
	And so it's the first thing he'd ever done remotely like this.
	I heard he was on the case and suggesting it was a demolition and a complete inside job.
	I said, I'd better look into this.
	Once I did, then I saw all this information that you'd been on top of from day one and realized, my goodness, it's not just that it was an inside job, but they're smoking guns piled up in the skies.
	We can prove this easily and that can change the world.
	And the debunkers, the debunkers like the BBC,
	and others.
	They never attack us.
	They only build straw men and claim we said things we didn't, or they go out and find some of the more esoteric, kind of kooky things, because, you know, there's as many ideas as the sun out there, and then claim that, well, you know, there's all these different ideas.
	No, bottom line, the official story is the wildest conspiracy theory of all.
	We have disproven the official story 110%, and then we can debate exactly how the military-industrial complex orchestrated this, but clearly
	They had the means, they had the motive, and then you look at it, they have their fingerprints all over it.
	Can you speak to the debunkers, and in a nutshell, what the main tenets of 9-11 truth are?
	Well, of course, the debunkers have mainly argued using ad hominem attacks, attacking the person who's making the argument rather than the actual argument itself.
	And they've used a lot of deception in their responses.
	The Popular Mechanics book, in particular, is extremely deceptive.
	I mean, that's hers publishing, literally, in the encyclopedia.
	Their name is right next to yellow journalism.
	That's right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The Hearst Corporation, that's the corporation that brought you the Spanish-American War by talking about the perfidious Spanish attack on the battleship Maine in Havana Harbor in 1898.
	And of course, that certainly wasn't the Spanish that blew up that ship.
	And so yeah, you can trace these debunkers back to highly dubious corporations and funding sources.
	So what should we say to them?
	Well, I think the first thing we say is that look at the official report, the 9-11 Commission report.
	It is so full of holes, it is so full of lies, that no rational person who reads that report and compares it to other evidence, perhaps reads alongside it David Griffin's book, the 9-11 Commission Report, Omissions and Distortions.
	Which he said he should have named the 400 and something page lie.
	Yeah, yeah, or the 568 page lie or whatever.
	Yeah, the book just doesn't hold up.
	And the thing is, are we willing to accept a report on the most important historical event of our century that is a tissue of lies?
	If you say yes, I think you're out of your mind!
	Whether or not you buy into this or that particular alternative 9-11 theory or hypothesis,
	There's no way that you're going to read the official report, look at the evidence, and tell me that that report is an adequate historical record.
	It's so far from that, that it's not even funny.
	You've been all over, you name it, CNN, Fox, O'Reilly, they've all attacked you, and all they do is sit there and scream at you.
	They'll talk five minutes, you'll talk maybe a minute, and they just keep calling you crazy over and over again.
	They can never debate any facts.
	And so I've tried to use that against them in a couple of ways.
	That's right.
	One is by writing this new book, Truth Jihad, my epic struggle against the 9-11 Big Lie, which is a sort of a humorous autobiography that could be handed to one of these people that have seen me on Fox or something and say, well, you know, is this guy crazy?
	How did a nice Midwestern white boy turn into a crazed Muslim conspiracy theorist?
	Is he really crazy?
	Read the book and find out.
	And, you know, it's a kind of, you know, use of humor and autobiography against this ad hominem attack, this
	What do you think the main pillars of 9-11 truth are, evidence-wise, and then where do you think the movement should go from here?
	Well, I think the first and foremost pillar, of course, is Building 7, as you yourself have pointed out.
	Anybody who sees Building 7 collapsing into its own footprint at free-fall speed, about seven seconds for a 47-story building, and then sees the landlord, the over-insured landlord, Larry Silberstein, who purchased the complex and finalized his purchase six weeks before 9-11, collected a
	Billions of dollars in a payout on his destruction of the world.
	He's now up to $7 billion.
	Is he getting $7 billion now?
	It was first $2, and then $5, and then $6, $9, and then, you know.
	Right.
	That's a lot of money on a six-week investment.
	He only put down a few million.
	He collected billions.
	And then he confessed on national television that, you know, we decided the best thing to do was pull it, and we pulled it, and we watched the building collapse.
	And then the next piece they show them going, and then we pull the other buildings months later, we're getting ready to pull number six, and show them blowing it up, and then we have all the firefighters and police now on video going, get back, we're about to bring it down, it's coming down, and all these other firefighters and police and emergency workers, we put clips of and had on, saying yeah, I got there to help, and they said get back from seven, we're about to bring it down.
	You can't set bombs in a building that's burning and it would take weeks even.
	It's hard to bring them down.
	It would take weeks even if you had the time to do it.
	That's right.
	It's a complete smoking gun.
	There's even people talking about the countdown.
	There was a countdown to Building 7 coming down.
	You don't do countdowns to accidental fire-induced collapses.
	That's right.
	People now on message boards are doing more research than my office has because they've got the time.
	And I spent like three hours the other night and didn't get any sleep because I got home and saw this at about midnight.
	I looked up, it was 345.
	My wife's wandering around upstairs going, honey, where are you?
	Come to bed.
	And I'm down there, and they had like 50 or 60 quotes out of newspapers with firemen saying there was a countdown, they blew it up, we were told to get back.
	And then there were like 20-something video clips I hadn't even seen, and I'm trying to play these on the show, and I'm like, just going, uhhhh.
	I mean, we're grounding in evidence here.
	That's right.
	And this is stuff I've never even seen, and I think, you know, I mean, I spend all my time doing this, there's so much evidence, I can't even wallow through it all.
	Well, that's one of the problems with this whole thing.
	There's almost too much evidence.
	I said they left smoking guns piled up to the sky.
	They piled them so high that you can't see the sun anymore.
	People just stick their heads back in the sand and give up.
	Some people do, at least.
	But I'm not going to do that.
	When they leave that many smoking guns for me, I'm going to pick those up and use them as a weapon for truth.
	We can use this to change the world.
	Why do you think they were so arrogant?
	We are changing the world with God's help.
	Why do you think they were so arrogant?
	That they could just do this in such an obvious and cavalier way, just chutzpah, bravado, aplomb, I mean, what do you call it?
	Well, I'd call it psychosis, Alex.
	Hubris?
	Yeah, yeah, hubris beyond the normal level of hubris.
	Taking a constitutional republic like this country is supposed to be,
	And then undermining it with these massive false flag terror attacks, including Oklahoma City, and then culminating in 9-11, and then continuing after that, of course, in Bali, Madrid, and London.
	This is just so outrageous that I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
	And now we've had eyewitnesses on, reporting that they saw the Secret Services direct the bus, and then they were there waiting when the government blew it up there, and there's all the evidence of 7-7.
	I mean, it's just getting ridiculous.
	It is, and I just don't really understand what they're trying to accomplish with this.
	You would think that things like the Gulf of Tonkin incident, just a fake attack on an American boat, would serve their purposes better than these massive terror bombings that ultimately are going to backfire on them.
	I think they got away with it so much in the past.
	I think it just goes to they're kind of playing in a 20 or 30 year old paradigm and we're in the 21st century.
	We're well into it.
	I think that frankly it's a bunch of old men who are smart and powerful but I just think are of another age.
	I think you're right.
	I think false flag terror has been a pretty big time key weapon in these power of empire folks who are trying to consolidate power and to launch wars.
	They've been doing it for centuries, as you know.
	I think the internet and the new communications technologies have really thrown a monkey wrench into that strategy because now everybody can look at the video of Building 7 coming down.
	They can look at the video of Silverstein confessing to pulling it.
	That's right, because in the past, the news event would happen once, they'd put out the official story, and then maybe little newsletters would challenge it.
	And they said they intended to use the web as the worldwide wiretap to control us, but it does seem like it's backfired.
	Right.
	And it's really ironic that the World Wide Web was built by the U.S.
	military.
	DARPA, yeah, to do a communication system that could survive a nuclear war.
	DARPA.
	And so they set it up so that messages can't be blocked easily.
	If a message is blocked, it has to go around and take another route, and it'll still get to its destination.
	That makes it really hard to censor and control.
	And so ironically, they may have invented the weapon that will prove to be their destruction.
	It's beautiful.
	Now, I'm not saying we're not out of the woods, though.
	Things are getting pretty serious, and they may try to up the ante in the Ponzi scheme and attack Iran.
	You know, I think they may very well try to flee forward into an attack on Iran.
	The scary thing to me is that this attack on Iran that they're planning doesn't make any strategic sense at all, unless they're going to try to seize that strip of land along the coast of the Persian Gulf, where all the oil is.
	And if they're going to try and do that, it's going to be another big-time occupation.
	That's right.
	The Western Coastal Area has half the oil reserves in just a few hundred square mile stretch.
	Right.
	But see, the thing is they can't do that unless they reinstitute the draft.
	And reinstituting the draft is politically impossible without another 9-11 type event.
	And that's where I kind of am a little concerned.
	What about Brzezinski two weeks ago before the Senate saying that there may be an attack stage in the U.S.
	blamed on Iran?
	Well, when Brzezinski is saying things like that, it's really, you know, we've come to a very interesting pass when someone like Brzezinski is willing to come right out and warn the American people against false flag terror attacks to, you know, trigger a war on Iran.
	That's amazing.
	I've never heard, you know, I've never seen anything like this in the past.
	It shows a major split in the power structure.
	We'll talk about World War III, target Iran, and in his new book, the Professor Kevin Barrett.
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	We're good.
	There he is, our guest in the studio.
	Welcome back, Kevin.
	We've been taking your calls.
	Coming up in the next segment at 1-800-259-9231 on OKC, the first World Trade Center attack, the second attack of 9-11, 2001, and a lot more.
	Don't forget, he'll be speaking tonight and hosting an event, giving a speech, taking questions, and they're going to show 9-11 film there as well, 9-11 Press for Truth.
	uh... and uh... that's coming up at the first unitarian universalist church at four seven zero zero grover
	And it's just the First Unitarian Universalist Church in Austin, Texas.
	Type it into Google.
	You can't miss it.
	We have links up on Infowars.com.
	Before we went into the break, we were going to talk more about the attack on Iran.
	That's a false flag in and of itself.
	They attack a country that doesn't have WMDs.
	The CIA's own report a year ago said ten years.
	The Israeli report says three to four years before they even had a crude A-bomb if they were allowed to have everything they wanted.
	They capitulated and allowed total U.N.
	inspection to a level never before seen.
	Cameras in all their facilities.
	The U.N.
	said they were given total unfettered access.
	And then they went another level and said, now you can't even do basic enrichment for power plants.
	And then we get all these misinterpretations of what Achmadinejad has been saying about, you know, he wants to wipe Israel off the map.
	That's not what he said.
	They claim that they want to make Jews wear yellow stars.
	That turned out to be a complete lie.
	It's shades of the Saddam throwing babies out of incubators out of a New York PR firm, which they admit now is fake.
	Comments to how we stop World War III.
	Well, I think we have to keep insisting that these things are lies.
	We have to expose these lies.
	Like, for instance, the story that Ahmadinejad says Israel needs to be wiped off the map.
	He never said that.
	Number one, he was quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini.
	It wasn't his own statement.
	Number two, that statement doesn't say Israel doesn't say wiped, it doesn't say mapped.
	None of those words are even in there.
	It's a Zionist government.
	Well, yeah, the actual translation is along the lines of this regime should be erased from the pages of time.
	And what that is, is it's a way of... And this is what you study, and this is what your doctorates, and this is what you do, is you study this whole region and movement and things that are going on there.
	Well, yes and no, Alex.
	Actually, I study Arabic, but Persian is a completely different language.
	We're a completely different language family, so I don't know Persian.
	But I have read about people who do know Persian and their analysis of that particular statement.
	Sure, I know there's a big separation.
	Right, and apparently what Medinajad and the Iranian government's position has been forever, ever since the revolution, is they would like to see regime change in Israel by way of a free and democratic election in which all Israelis and Palestinians would be able to vote for the kind of nation that they want to have.
	That's what he was calling for.
	Well, and then you have the thing where they said last year, it was only out for three days, put out by one of those groups in Canada, they want to make Jews wear yellow stars.
	Turns out it was totally made up.
	Yeah, that one, somebody just dreamed that up.
	And, you know, who's dreaming this stuff up?
	Who's putting this stuff in our newspapers and our television?
	Where is this stuff coming from?
	Is it Hill & Knowlton, this Goebbels-style PR firm that Bush used to come up with this?
	Well, it's like two weeks ago when they said they're giving deadly weapons.
	The Iranians aren't.
	It turned out it was all a lie.
	That's right, yeah.
	When the floodgates of propaganda start opening, and these lies start inundating us, that means that... A lot of the aircraft carriers line up.
	Right, right.
	Yeah, it's definitely time to come up, to do whatever we can do to stop this before it happens.
	It could be a real disaster, it could be a huge strategic disaster for the U.S., which is why people like Brzezinski are coming out, you know, trying to blow the whistle on it, saying, watch out for another 9-11-style false flag event.
	The reason he's saying that is because he's going to get
	You know, credited or blamed for this in the history books, and he's worried because I think he knows very well that this is a, you know, attacking Iran would be a huge gamble on the part of the U.S.
	And he's going to get blamed because his National Security Advisor, and then in two subsequent books he wrote in the 90s and then last year, he kind of laid out this current neocon strategy, but I guess now he doesn't like how it's going.
	Yeah, you know, I don't think he laid out a neocon strategy.
	Well, it's a very similar strategy.
	Right, it kind of dovetails in certain ways.
	He did say that the only reason the U.S.
	was able to get behind World War II was because of Pearl Harbor.
	We need a helpful Pearl Harbor event.
	He helped get the Mujahideen to start the attacks on the Russians in 1979, to actually kick that off.
	He says that the key region will be Central Asia, into Persia in the future.
	So his realist strategy was pretty close to the neocon strategy, but the difference is that the neocons, I think, are complete lunatic, fanatic disciples of this evil guru named Leo Strauss.
	That's right.
	I mean, they're really out to lunch.
	Brzezinski is a realist strategist who's thinking in terms of a chessboard, whereas the neocons are a bunch of wackos who are thinking in terms of a small number of people running the world dictatorially by endlessly feeding big lies to the masses.
	And I don't think Brzezinski is quite that far along.
	No, I agree.
	The founder of the Trilateral Commission is more cold about what he does.
	It's more thought out, but still a globalist model, but I agree with you.
	Let's come back and get into some of the things that you've been covering in the 9-11 Truth Movement and take some calls with Kevin Barrett.
	We're on the march.
	The Empire's on the run.
	Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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	Kevin Barrett is our guest in studio.
	We're carrying some new items in the InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com online video and bookstore shopping cart.
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	I'm Alex Jones at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, TX 78704.
	Also, don't forget that I do a Sunday program now from 4 to 6 p.m.
	Central out of the KLBJ 590 studios.
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	The book is 9-1-1 and the American Empire, Christian, Jews, and Muslims speak out.
	Kevin, before we get more into 9-11 and take some calls here with loaded phone lines, tell folks about your new book.
	Well, this is the second volume in this 9-11 and Empire series.
	It got started when David Griffin came to the University of Wisconsin-Madison in spring of 2005 and gave a talk on 9-11 to a full house of 450-plus people.
	It was broadcast nationwide by C-SPAN, a big mainstream media breakthrough.
	That's right.
	And so David and I said, you know, we should try to counter this ad hominem attack stuff that they're throwing at us by showing that there are a lot of respectable names who say that what we're saying is not crazy at all, that we're actually saying we're right.
	So let's put out these books, collecting some big-name intellectuals in the first volume, and big-name religious studies scholars in the second volume, talking about 9-11 and looking at it from a perspective, not only what really happened, but how can we as Christians, Jews, and Muslims sit down together and invoke our moral principles that are really pretty common between all of us, and try and get at the truth of what happened, and also, you know, what's the meaning of this event?
	What should we do with this event?
	It's also important to counter it from that angle because 9-11 itself, the official narrative, is a religious belief.
	Well, it is.
	My argument in my essay in this book is that it's a myth, an artificially created myth.
	Mythos, yeah.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Human sacrifice, unfortunately, is a big part of a lot of traditional religions that have been around in various parts of the world, and the Jewish-Christian-Islamic traditions try to put an end to human sacrifice.
	You know, in Judaism, of course, the sacrifice of Isaac is God stays the hand of Abraham, right?
	Same thing in Islam.
	And in Christianity, of course, the sacrifice of Jesus is supposed to be an end to human sacrifice.
	Yet, these diabolical perpetrators of 9-11 sacrificed 3,000 people in this incredibly intelligent spectacle.
	Yeah, Bush has been... Well, to start over, I want you to say this, because we're also rolling cameras.
	Okay, well yeah, I guess my point here is that this was a religious spectacle, a human sacrifice spectacle designed to reawaken primal religious emotions and drive people into this homicidal frenzy that could be channeled towards war.
	I agree, and human sacrifice in ancient civilizations was really the state waging war against the people, but creating it as a sacrament that the corn will grow, the water will fall, if you just let the state kill you, and it kind of institutionalized this type of dehumanization.
	And we see that in Mel Gibson's Apocalypto, which is pretty darn accurate.
	And we ask, how could that happen?
	Well, Bush keeps calling it sacrifice in all of his major speeches.
	They know they're invoking that primordial, archetypal, instinctive drive.
	That's right.
	And you've actually done some work on this with the kind of stuff that goes on at Bohemian Grove where they sacrifice care in the form of like burning an effigy of a child.
	Yes.
	This goes back to those primal religions of the Mediterranean region.
	I now have a video clip I sent to the network, we never played it because we didn't have time, of Anton LaVey.
	Just type Anton LaVey into YouTube and it comes up on one of the top clips.
	And he says we sacrifice care, we kill a child in effigy.
	So this is scary stuff.
	But sorry, we're talking about the Mediterranean.
	It's just these traditional religions around the world, including the ones on the South Shore, especially the Mediterranean in pre-Roman times and so on, were actually sacrificing children.
	Well, yeah, it's the same thing.
	And our diabolical government is doing something similar when it uses these false flag attacks to invoke these primal religious emotions in which people just give up critical thinking, follow the government, and go out and march off to kill their fellow human beings.
	Do you think that the perpetrators are doing this because they know how to push our buttons or are they doing it because they themselves believe in it?
	Well, that's a good question.
	I think the neoconservatives clearly have worked out this very elaborate philosophy saying that only we, the few, the proud, the neocons, can handle using reason to understand how reality works and therefore we have the right and the duty to control everybody else through big lies while we enjoy the fruits of this society that's run by... Which is what Strauss taught at Chicago.
	Exactly.
	But I think they're just systematizing a philosophy that's been around in elitist circles for a long time.
	Yeah, for thousands of years different predatory elites have kind of stylized through religion and through ceremony their predatory actions.
	That's right.
	But the people also respond to this by changing rituals and invoking rituals and finding reality through religious practices including ritual and storytelling and myth and so on.
	So there's always kind of a battle going on between the actual religious
	Impulse in human beings and the way those impulses are manipulated and controlled by elites Where do you see the 9-11 truth movement going and we're gonna go to some calls
	Well, I think we're heading for victory, Alex.
	And I don't know when.
	I don't know how it's going to happen.
	It could happen in all sorts of different ways.
	But I think we still have a shot at getting these current leaders in this administration out of office in chains before the end of their terms.
	And if we can do that, we will have won.
	But we could win in a whole lot of other ways, too.
	I don't see how they can stop us at this point.
	I mean, we may not get trials and people going to the prison or to the gallows, but certainly in the court of public opinion, we've now gone way across the 50% point, deep down, knowing it's an inside job.
	Because if you study polls, you get 36% when they get a cold call from Scripps Howard Ohio University scientific poll.
	They know that with really controversial questions, a lot of times it's double or more so the actual number you get.
	Hey, the phone rings.
	Hello, this is Scripps Hour News Service doing a poll.
	Would you participate?
	It's about 9-11.
	Sure.
	Well, okay, how old are you?
	Blah, blah, blah.
	Have you taken this poll before?
	No.
	Have you taken a similar poll?
	Okay, here's the first question.
	Do you believe the government was involved in the attacks?
	Do you believe it's an inside job?
	In that same poll, 66% believe they're being lied to.
	36% say yes.
	Then four months later, they have an angus and
	I've done over 4,000 radio interviews in the last six years.
	I was really heating up with interviews before then, warning people about terror.
	And I would talk about this the first year after maybe half the callers agreed with me.
	Now I go on shows where the host is attacking me.
	It could be KFI or KOA or WABC.
	And the host is attacking me.
	I'm on an hour and a half.
	And it's just absolutely amazing what happens with this, because almost every caller calls in and agrees with me.
	I've had kind of the same experience, Alex.
	I've gone on mainstream shows, too, with hosts who were attacking me, and I've had the same experience.
	Lately, the callers have been on my side, so I hope it just continues in that direction.
	Well, and obviously you have a show weekdays here on Genesis.
	Tell folks about what time that program's on.
	Well, that's 3 to 5 p.m.
	Central Time.
	It's the Dynamic Duo Show, and I handle Mondays and Fridays.
	Jim Fetzer does Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays.
	I've got a lot of interesting folks on there, probably none more interesting than my guest last Monday, I think it was.
	From Duke University, we had Professor Bruce Lawrence, who's a scholar of radical Islam and an expert on Osama Bin Laden, and he actually came right out and said that the confession video is bogus.
	That Fatty Bin Laden confession video where there's an overweight imposter.
	Oh, we should have brought that up!
	Talk about that!
	That interview got a lot of attention.
	Well, it did, because it is the furthest that anybody with those kind of credentials has gone, as far as saying that that video is bogus.
	And it's really important, because he didn't just say that the Fatty Bin Laden confession video of November-December 2001 is bogus.
	He said that all the CIA people who work on the Bin Laden units know it's bogus.
	He talks to these people, he works with those people in his translating Bin Laden speeches and stuff.
	He says they all know it's bogus.
	And the question becomes, well, why is our whole intelligence apparatus going along with this?
	Well, it's a fear.
	And the reason it was so shoddy is they can't get most of the good CIA folks that are compartmentalized and doing real jobs to go lie for them, so it was just some black op.
	Why?
	They put some guy who looks nothing like him, 100 pounds heavier, a nose twice the size,
	And they put him in there.
	They did face recognition, it isn't him.
	Then they did voice print, that's 100% it's not him.
	Then they had universities do the language test, where they looked at the linguistics, and it's not even the same dialect.
	I mean, this is... How stupid do they think we are?
	Well, they must think we're pretty stupid, Alex, to keep trying this stuff.
	But anyway, it's good to have somebody like Bruce Lawrence, who's really kind of an insider.
	Tell us about him.
	Well, he's the head of the Religious Studies program at Duke University, and he's an accomplished Arabist and Islamologist.
	He's published a number of books in this area, including this most recent book of his on Osama, Messages to the World, which is a translation of Osama's speeches now.
	Bruce Lawrence, when he put that book out, you know, he didn't select the Osama speeches that I would select.
	He selected them and arranged them in such a way that you could read his book and still more or less buy the official story.
	He ignores the bogus Smoking Gun Fatty Bin Laden confession video.
	He ignores all of these interviews where Bin Laden denied any responsibility for 9-11.
	And then we have all these other interviews where they just recut stuff that was pre-9-11 and they keep putting them out as new and then let her go, okay, that was a recut of all takes.
	That's right.
	Yeah, that's another trick.
	They keep reusing the old footage.
	Well, I mean, how many times did they kill the number two al-Qaeda?
	Like, twelve times?
	How many times did they kill bin Laden's, you know, number three man?
	How many times did they kill chemical Ali?
	Then we learn he's alive.
	How many times did they kill all of these people?
	How many times did they kill his sons?
	They always have to kill a bad guy every so often just to make the story.
	That's right.
	But why do they think we're so dumb they can use the same guy over and over again, never retracting the last time?
	Well, I think that it's like Orwell said, that you've got to get people living in a perpetual presence where they have no historical memory, and then you just keep hitting them with these emotionally effective images.
	Yeah, the government is cold-bloodedly just setting the precedent to just outright lie.
	That's right.
	And as Orwell said in 1984,
	The only real freedom is the freedom to say 2 plus 2 makes 4.
	If that is permitted, then all things are there.
	So the thing is, if they can convince us that these outrageous lies that anybody can see are lies are true, then we're stuck.
	There's nothing else we can do.
	We're accepting 2 plus 2 equals 2.
	Yeah.
	That's what they want us to do.
	And then he tortures Winston until he finally just can't see any numbers.
	He says, I see 3, I see 5, I see 10, I see whatever you want me to see.
	That's right, I see Bin Laden, I see the number 2 guy, I see... Well, who's the bad guy in that?
	It's a turbaned, you know, like the bad guy from a Disney cartoon with the big black beard.
	You know, that's Goldstein, who's this enemy who could never be defeated in 1984.
	And Winston realizes that the government's blowing up its own buildings to keep the war against the people going, that there isn't even really an enemy.
	That's right.
	It's kind of interesting how Goldstein is the villain in 1984, this bogus villain who's this tall, dark, Semitic caricature, and this is sort of a Jewish caricature in 1984, but a lot of these nasty anti-Semitic caricatures of Jews are now being turned around and used against most
	Exactly.
	If you take the old Nazi cartoons of Jews with the big nose and the dark hair and the hunchback, you can superimpose them on the Arabs.
	It's the exact caricature.
	That's right.
	And it's not just the Nazis, Alex.
	You know, Walt Disney put out a cartoon, I believe in the early 30s or late 20s,
	I don't know.
	They put out this exact same caricature.
	It's almost a reworking of the Big Bad Wolf, the anti-Semitic wolf, but now it's Jafar, the evil vizier, in this Middle Eastern country.
	And it's like they've taken this anti-Jewish stereotype and they've flipped it upside down and now it's an anti-Muslim, anti-Arab stereotype.
	Let's take a call.
	Absolutely.
	John in California.
	You're on the air with Kevin Barrett.
	Yeah, I wasn't trying to talk to Kevin Barrett.
	It's okay, sir.
	You're on the air.
	Go ahead.
	I wanted to say happy belated birthday.
	I also wanted to mention not too long ago I gave you this code you could put on your page for people to copy the radio program to their website.
	And we didn't do it.
	Yeah, well, I wanted to give people a direction to get... No, I'm just saying, we're so busy.
	Send it again to, say, Aaron at InfoWars.com.
	I appreciate you making that.
	We'll try to get it posted, but go ahead.
	Alright, I wanted to give some people, until you do get it on there, a place where they can... Sure, go ahead.
	It's at MySpace.com slash Biometallics, spelled with a zero and a K.
	I don't know.
	and then you know other stupid things but uh... you know uh... you know find your dream date but uh... just uh... we have to slog through all that and basically all my email addresses are just impossible to keep track of them that's why i give out my colleagues uh... email addresses so they can hopefully find it but but send it to me and we'll get it thank you for the call john thank you for creating that uh... program we'll be right back with kevin barrett on the other side i'm alex jones the websites info wars dot com prison planet dot com prison planet dot tv info wars dot net we'll be right back
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
	Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
	Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
	Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
	Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
	It's an anthology of government crimes.
	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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	I think so.
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	We had an unbelievable interview in the first 30 minutes of the show today, for those that don't know.
	Headline, Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
	Another headline, Nichols says bombing was FBI operation.
	We had more information than what was in these two major newspapers yesterday, on today, with the lawyer we first interviewed three years ago.
	This is huge news.
	It is in the first 30 minutes of the show today.
	It is so vitally important.
	Everybody needs to check it out.
	Everybody needs to look at it for themselves and find out the truth.
	Let's go ahead and take another call here with our guest, Kevin Barrett.
	Ryan in California.
	You're on the air.
	Hi, Alex.
	Go ahead.
	Thanks for taking my call.
	You bet.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah.
	I actually would like to ask Kevin Barrett.
	If he's familiar with, um, let's see, what is his name?
	John M. Allegro?
	Uh, who decoded some of the Dead Sea Scrolls when they were first found?
	I think I've read a little bit by and or about John Allegro.
	Didn't he actually suggest that Jesus was a magic mushroom at one point?
	He actually wrote a book on it.
	It's very fascinating.
	I just wanted to know what your take was on that.
	We're really talking about government sponsored terror, not magic mushroom people.
	It kind of all ties in because it just goes into the occult and how all these things came to be.
	It's just all about the occult.
	The ancient Jewish occultic practices and how they came to be before Judaism existed.
	I was just wondering if he was familiar with that book.
	I just think it's a very fascinating book and might be interesting.
	Are you familiar with it?
	Sure.
	Yes, I actually have read that book.
	I'm interested, but you probably know more than I do about that topic.
	Actually, I don't even know who it is.
	Listen, thank you for the call, Ryan.
	David in Texas, you're on the air.
	Go ahead.
	Yes, Alex.
	I'd like to talk about the, while we go, you were talking about the apocalypto and how the parallel of this.
	After watching your Bohemian Grove video, and really getting into this whole thing, it really looks like it's an ancient weapon that they're using on us.
	And now, in concert with that ancient weapon, they're using these new technologies like chemtrails.
	I heard you had Clifford Carnicom on a few months back.
	I've had him on many times.
	Somehow this all ties in.
	You've been getting on, I've been listening to you religiously here lately and you're, you get on, you're sick.
	You're like, what the heck's going on?
	You know, and, and after watching Cliff's video, you know, it kind of all really ties in.
	Like they got a Trump card and they're not going to stop.
	So I think like talking to a Congressman or, you know, God love everybody for wanting to do that, but we need a consciousness change here.
	We need to get some movement going.
	And this is going to take God on our side many... We need to first realize just how evil the globalists are.
	Their religion is about exercising power and about abusing people, just like 1984 with O'Brien.
	They're the priest of power.
	This is a guild of psychopaths running the planet.
	Kevin Barrett, comments?
	I think you're absolutely right.
	And I think that we do need a change of consciousness.
	And I think that when they screwed up 9-11 and left a pile of smoking guns, they gave us a chance to change consciousness by picking up those smoking guns, shoving them in the face of Mr. and Mrs. America, and saying, look what they did to us!
	And I think that can change the world.
	Can I make one more comment?
	Yes, sir.
	I agree with that, but what I'm saying here, it really looks like they wouldn't have pulled all of this off without having a
	Contingency plan, a backup plan.
	It's the thing of they're so powerful, they're so big, they're invincible, what can we do?
	Is that what you're saying?
	No, no, no.
	I'm saying that they've got technologies and ability to turn warfare, you know, that they could release anything at any time.
	It's like if this 9-11 thing didn't work out, I'm sure they planned it ahead and thought, okay.
	Well, that's why we have to expose how they're planning ahead.
	You're absolutely right.
	And, you know, God, thank you for doing your show, man.
	You've awakened me up the last five years.
	No, I'm just saying it's like, I don't know, they get a power somehow by having all these souls, you know, constantly... I hear you.
	Very evil.
	Thank you for the call.
	We're out of time.
	Kevin Barrett, I want to thank you for being in the studio with us.
	Yeah, thanks Alex.
	It's been great.
	Coming up tonight, what time is the event this evening?
	I think it starts about 7 o'clock.
	That's right.
	7 p.m.
	tonight at the First Universalist Unitarian Church.
	They're also going to show a 9-11 film.
	I look forward to that event happening.
	Thank you for joining us.
	Thank you, Alex.
	Okay.
	This broadcast is available on MP3 CD format at GCNLive.com or call toll free 877-300-7645.
	Big Brother.
	Hello!
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	Wake up, boys, there's a light at the window.
	I can hear someone knocking on the door.
	There are voices in the street and the sound of running feet.
	And they whisper the words, REVOLUTION!
	There are men coming down from the valley.
	There are tall ships flying off the coast And they carry the light in the dark of the night Like a whisper in the wind Evolution!
	Bring my gun and a handful of silver By the sea we will gather for the fight
	It's been so many years So many tears We have lost once before Now we'll settle the score When our cannons will roar Revolution!
	We're good.
	We're good to go.
	Alright, folks.
	Welcome back.
	We're going to break here in about 60 seconds and come back.
	A lot of stations will join us.
	And we've got an interesting individual joining us.
	He's Cliff Kincaid.
	I remember 15 years ago watching different speeches he'd give in different films and learning something about the globalists and the New World Order and admiring his work.
	And then I got to learn from him
	Just how bad I am.
	And so he's going to share with us just where people like myself have gone wrong.
	I guess George Bush is a good conservative man of the Lord and everything's fine here in America.
	It's all those liberals.
	Well, we know it's the liberals.
	We know they're bought and paid for by the very same criminal elite that's giving us the Security and Prosperity Partnership and butchering our borders and preparing to launch World War III against Iran.
	So we'll be right back with Cliff Kincaid, on the other side.
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
	Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
	Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
	Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
	Terror Storm is a definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
	It's an anthology of government crimes.
	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
	Nuclear reactors provide economical energy, but would you be prepared during an accident?
	During nuclear disasters, great amounts of radioactive iodine are released into the atmosphere, which are then readily absorbed into the body.
	Medical course potassium iodate gives you virtually complete protection from the most feared consequence of a nuclear accident.
	Radioactive poisoning.
	Potassium iodate can protect against radioactive poisoning by filling the thyroid with good iodine.
	This shields the thyroid and prevents it from absorbing the harmful radioactive iodine.
	Potassium iodate is better than the iodide form because it is not as likely to cause upset stomachs in children, the elderly, the sick, and pets.
	Order the official potassium iodate for only $24 and save $5.
	We're good.
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	From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
	It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
	We're going to continue with open phones in this hour.
	John and Louis and many others that are holding will be getting to you.
	The toll-free number to join us is 1-800-259-9231.
	If you missed the first hour,
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	The full three hours every day for free.
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	Central on the show ends.
	Just the three hours restreams 24 hours a day.
	I got Cliff Kincaid on today because he's done a lot of good work exposing the globalists, the UN agenda.
	He co-hosted Crossfire for a while back in the 1980s when Buchanan left to be part of the White House team.
	Speechwriter and he's done a lot of good work on the UN and the New World Order but he has written articles like C-SPAN promotes 9-11 truth movement
	Then it says, the two-day event American Scholars Symposium on the Neocon Agenda was held in Los Angeles and began with host Alex Jones thanking C-SPAN for covering their affair.
	Participants rose to their feet in a standing ovation.
	Then he goes on to decry C-SPAN airing something like this.
	He's got another story here, impeach Bush over 9-11, and he basically derides that.
	And then he's got another story, North American Union conspiracy exposed.
	And he goes on to tell us that it's the liberals that are behind this.
	So we have Mr. Kincaid on with us today.
	Thanks for coming on.
	Good to be with you.
	Why don't you, just for listeners who may not know who you are, most of my listeners do, similar genre, why don't you tell folks a little bit about yourself?
	I'm an independent conservative.
	I've been in the Washington, D.C.
	area since the summer of 1978.
	Associated with various organizations, including Accuracy in Media.
	As well as a group I formed about eight years ago called America's Survival, which deals mostly with foreign policy and international and UN-related issues.
	I've had a long career, but I am known for my independence.
	We are critical of conservative media as well as liberal media.
	We call the shots the way we see them.
	And come to the truth independently.
	What would you call a radio broadcast like my own or the C-SPAN event?
	A commie meeting or something?
	Well, all I could comment in that respect, Alex, is based on my attendance at the so-called 9-11 Truth Movement meeting in New York that I covered personally.
	And there was a mix of people there.
	I have no doubt that there are a lot of people who want to get to the bottom of what happened on 9-11.
	I'm among them.
	I do believe, though, in the final analysis that what happened on that day did involve an attack on U.S.
	soil by Islamic extremists, fascists, whatever you want to call them.
	Nevertheless, we do have to find out a lot more about why it occurred.
	And what led up to it?
	It's the liberals and the socialists that always love to use the word fascist.
	Explain to me how they are fascists.
	Do they wear black uniforms?
	Do they believe the government should combine with corporations for monopolies?
	Because I would see the current Bush regime as attempting every fascist trick in the playbook.
	The Bush administration can be criticized on many grounds, and in fact the article you just mentioned about the so-called North American Union is critical of the Bush administration on that score.
	We are independent.
	We will criticize the Bush administration and have done so on issues like the borders.
	If you've seen any of the work I've done on the UN,
	uh... which is freely available up on our website at USAsurvival.org and you go into the archives you'll find that uh... i was one of the first uh... behind the case in fact i co-wrote a book about the case of michael new the army specialist who was discharged for bad i know that a little listen i know the good work you've done i don't know cliff how you couldn't look at the evidence of nine eleven which is just there's so much of it
	And I don't mean the debunking done by Hearst Yellow Journalism Publishing or by the BBC, because that's straw men and ad hominem attacks.
	I mean, if you really look at 7, clearly blown up.
	I got police firemen saying they were told get back, 10 second countdown, the government was going to blow it up.
	You can't put explosives in there in a burning building.
	That was staged.
	You've got Bush with all the troops massing to invade Afghanistan and the surrounding countries in the two months before with the launch order to attack the day before.
	You've got CIA insider trading.
	You've got the hijackers trained at U.S.
	military bases.
	And that's the dean of the Defense Language School who went public and said, my gosh, we train these people.
	I've had embassy heads on who said they wouldn't let them back into the U.S.
	They were told the terrorism designation is a CIA cover.
	I mean, there's hundreds of points.
	Are you aware of any of those, or do you just deny those?
	Well, I've looked at all of it, and I don't find it convincing.
	What I do find convincing is that, and even Al Jazeera has discovered this and admitted it, even though it is certainly a raid against the forces of the United States.
	Oh, give me a break.
	It's milquetoast compared to Al-Arabia and the rest of it.
	No.
	Al Jazeera, and for people who are interested, this gets to the heart of what's happening here.
	You have to be independently minded enough to be able to sort through the misinformation and the disinformation.
	And I think some of what we've been hearing about 9-11 and the alleged complicity of the U.S.
	government is coming from foreign intelligence services that want to mislead us
	into thinking that the Bush administration and not the Islamists are the real enemy.
	Really, I was on the air two months before 9-11 and I'm not some foreign intelligence or domestic intelligence operative and I launched Operation Expose the Government Terrorist and said all the indicators I see is they're going to attack the World Trade Center and blame it on their former asset Osama Bin Laden.
	I mean they now admit Gulf of Tonkin was staged, the CIA admits they staged
	I'm saying that when it comes to 9-11 we were caught by surprise and that an Islamist terrorist group with links to Al Jazeera
	And we have quite a bit of evidence on this, was behind it.
	Now, in terms of the U.S.
	being unprepared and not knowing exactly what led up to it, I'm saying we need more answers.
	We just posted this week on our website an excellent piece by Jack Cashel dealing with the Sandy Berger stolen documents scandal that
	He looks at the TWA 800 cover-up.
	He was sticking Abel Danger documents in his pants.
	And we've been focusing on that as well.
	But what we've tied it to, and this is important, and we were among the first, and we continue to hold to this view, that the U.S.
	government did cover up the true cause of what happened to TWA 800, and what we do in this piece by Jack Cashel is connect that to what happened on 9-11.
	So we're not
	We're not averse to thinking about possible government conspiracy theories, but we believe that they have to be well documented, and we have done so in the case of TWA 800.
	You ought to take a look.
	Well, let's talk about that before you leave us, but let's go back here for just a moment.
	In my first film about 9-11, we start out with Bill Clinton four separate times, when he was in Sudan, when he was in Afghanistan, when he was in Saudi Arabia.
	Their government said, we want to arrest him and give him to you.
	And Clinton signed W199I Internal Order ordering the intelligence agencies and the defense establishment as well as the Federal Bureau
	I think so.
	So, you know, we hear this talk about, oh Bill Clinton did it.
	No, they're all involved in protecting these people and FBI agent Robert Wright got up on C-SPAN in 2002 crying with Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch and of course with
	The impeachment lawyer, David Shippers, and said, here's a letter where I'll be arrested if I tell you what I know.
	All we can tell you, and he broke down crying, is the Bush's vacation with the Bin Ladens.
	You ever seen that National Press Club video?
	Well, we have.
	We've worked with Judicial Watch in the past and continue to work with them.
	I guess I could press you on various things like, what have you done about TWA 800?
	We were the ones who got to the bottom of that.
	We continue to maintain that the Clinton administration covered it up.
	What we've done recently with the Sandy Berger stolen documents scandal is connect that to 9-11.
	And raised a question which even the Bush Justice Department does not want to answer, which is, what documents was he stealing?
	Did they have anything to do with TWA 800 and the fact that we were not prepared on 9-11?
	The Press has reported that it was terrorism investigations and that there's a connection to Able Danger.
	Have you found that to be accurate?
	I don't know.
	There's still a cover-up underway regarding Able Danger, and we haven't gotten to the bottom of that one either.
	Well, it had to be something big for Sandy Berger to be in there cramming papers in his pants.
	And I think what it was, and go to our website at AIM.org to find this out, Jack Heschel makes a convincing case that the documents that Berger stole dealt with the shoot-down
	Not the mysterious crash, the shoot-down of TWA 800.
	Well, you ask what I've done on it, I've probably done 50, 60, 70 shows in the last 10 years since that happened with experts and filmmakers and helicopter pilots and Navy officers.
	Have you talked to Cashel?
	I believe so, yes.
	Well, we've not only talked to him and run his most recent piece, and he's an expert on this subject, we actually did a film ourselves
	Years ago.
	So we approach each one of these incidents independently, trying to ascertain the facts, and then we publish what we find.
	Well, look, there's no doubt that Bill Clinton was involved in the build-up to 9-11, not just letting it happen.
	Clearly, the military-industrial complex you know full well is a lot better than Bill Clinton or George Bush, Cliff, Kincaid.
	And I think if you honestly look at 9-11, instead of some of the straw men or kooks that are out there, you're going to find out that it's deep and dark.
	But let's come back and let you expound on what really happened at TWA Flight 800 and what's happening with the North American Union.
	We'll be right back.
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	He's with accuracy and medium, Cliff Kincaid.
	I remember the liberals all criticizing me when I started exposing Oklahoma City as an inside job.
	The government didn't screw up.
	They didn't provocateur it and then accidentally not run the sting right.
	They did the whole thing.
	Bombs inside.
	Eyewitnesses.
	The whole nine yards.
	BATF ordering police and different emergency workers to put bandages on them when they weren't hurt.
	And now, here it is.
	Nichols McVeigh had high-level help in FBI.
	Here's another headline, Nichols says, Oklahoma City, an FBI operation, affidavits, and it fits in with all the eyewitnesses and the rest of it.
	Then you look at TWA Flot 800, all we know from General Vinton Parton and many others is that it fits, and reporters snuck in and got samples and got arrested.
	That it had clearly been hit by at least one missile, probably two continuous rod missiles.
	Cliff Kincaid, from your research on this, who do you think was involved in shooting those missiles that were witnessed by hundreds of members of the military, police, state police, and others that day?
	We have looked at almost all the incidents and cases you just brought up.
	In fact, we've got a piece on Oklahoma City that's going to be published in about a few weeks.
	Just to back up for a second, it is our belief that Al-Qaeda is a real Islamic terrorist organization, that it was not only responsible for 9-11, but was also responsible for the post-9-11 anthrax attacks.
	We've done extensive work on that.
	That's ridiculous.
	Well, we've got the evidence to show.
	You've got the evidence?
	Okay, see, this is what you do, Cliff.
	We've got the evidence, and not only that, we've been almost alone in supporting the cases that have been brought by Stephen Hatfield, who had his life and career ruined.
	Oh, I agree, he wasn't involved.
	Hold on, let's go back.
	Let me finish my point.
	By the Bush Justice Department, incidentally, who
	Under John Ashcroft, who accused him of being a quote, person of interest, when he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
	Let me ask you a question.
	Why would the Bush administration want to pin it on Hadfield for no reason?
	Well, let me tell you.
	In that case, and this goes back a long, long way into the Clinton administration and continuing under the Bush administration, we've got a very, very corrupt FBI.
	And when you have corruption on top of incompetence, you have a very, very dangerous situation.
	And we have made the point not only that Hatfield is innocent, we have supported his lawsuits not only against the New York Times for defamation for accusing him of being involved in the anthrax murders, but against the Bush Justice Department itself.
	Okay, let's back up.
	Let's back up here.
	First, the government said that it wasn't weaponized anthrax.
	Then it turned out it was Fort Detrick, Amestrain, super-weaponized, coated in bentonite, miniaturized.
	And we know there was a Congressional 99 study of how to mail weaponized anthrax through the mail.
	All these Bush enemies, from Tom Daschle to American media, get it mailed to them.
	And you say Al-Qaeda had U.S.
	weapons-grade anthrax.
	Oh, boy.
	Well, it wasn't U.S.
	Yes, meaning it originated at Fort Detrick.
	The so-called AIM strain was freely available around the world.
	The Russians had it.
	Al-Qaeda had it.
	They had it in Afghanistan.
	There are hundreds of reports confirming with the experts that have looked at it that it was a U.S.
	slash British type design.
	No, it wasn't.
	That's what they initially claimed.
	That's what came out of the FBI.
	The FBI later backtracked on that and so did the
	Journalist, uh... What about Francis A. Boyle that... I lost you there.
	Okay, this happens about twice a year.
	And we have the electrician here right now.
	I'm in my Austin offices.
	The main network and satellite uplinks is in Minnesota.
	We have backup power.
	I didn't want to talk about it.
	Since the last hour, we haven't had power and the batteries are going crazy.
	I apologize to our guest.
	Mr. Kincaid, are you still there?
	I'm here.
	Okay, a little bit of fun.
	You drew the short straw today coming on the show.
	This has only happened one other time.
	Well, let me proceed and try to bring it up today.
	We can argue back and forth on the Al-Qaeda-Anthrax connection, but getting to TWA 800, I'll tell you what we think happened.
	We think the Clinton administration anticipated Al-Qaeda using airliners and flying them into buildings.
	They were preparing for it, but the Navy, which was pre-positioned, accidentally shot down TWA 800.
	Clinton was in a re-election mode.
	He had the CIA come up with the phony video.
	And they blamed it on a mysterious fuel tank explosion.
	Stay there.
	I want to hear your evidence for that.
	I want to hear why you think that happened and how that happened on the other side.
	We're on the march.
	The Empire's on the run.
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	I hurt myself today To see if I still feel I focus on the pain The only thing that's real The needle tears a hole
	I don't know if I agree with that term.
	You know, to see so many people who have been fighting the New World Order just not being able to deal with the fact that George Bush is a New World Order pimp is hard for me to deal with.
	But we're going to finish up with TWA Flight 800.
	We're going to get into his new article by Cliff Kincaid at AIM.org.
	North American Union conspiracy exposed.
	We have links to this up on Infowars.com, the sub page.
	But he starts out with how the Democratic Party liberals are running this, and they've discovered the liberal conspiracy.
	Well, it's like the professor Carol Quigley, who was Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown, said he was part of the globalist apparatchik and allowed to go into their files.
	He said, no, they control the left, the right, the fascists, the communists, anything that consolidates, anything that creates big government that global corporations can then suck off of is how they operate.
	We'll get into that in a minute and let him counter anything he disagrees with, but give us your research and your take on what really happened with TWA Flight 800.
	Well, let me tell you, it's impossible to know for sure.
	But this is our best estimate, and again, people can go to AIM.org and see Jack Cashel's latest piece on Sandy's secrets, as we call it.
	The link between what he stole, the documents, and TWA 800 leading up to 9-11.
	But we do believe that the Navy was pre-positioned that night to possibly intercept a terrorist hijacked airplane or missile.
	And that it accidentally shot down TWA 800.
	Now this was bad news for Clinton, who wanted to be re-elected that year.
	This is 1996.
	And so a decision was made to cover it up and blame it on a mysterious fuel tank explosion.
	Well, there was a huge naval drill that night and helicopters in the air.
	That's why we have hundreds of military witnesses.
	How would they keep the military from leaking that when there'd be at least hundreds of witnesses on board the ships?
	Well, there's, you know, there's unanswered questions.
	I don't have all the answers.
	I mean, I've heard this since day one that it was a naval missile.
	That's our best estimate or guess.
	We don't know for sure, but we do know that the government cover story doesn't make any sense and that the CIA was brought in to concoct this animated video that made no sense in an effort to try to discredit the eyewitnesses, more than 200 who actually saw a missile go up and hit the plane.
	But let me bring it back to the so-called North American Union, Alex, because you try to accuse me of being soft on President Bush by emphasizing the first paragraph in that piece.
	People should go to that piece at AIM.org and read it for yourself.
	I start out with the fact that Robert Pastor, formerly of the Carter administration and a Clinton advisor, made certain comments because he was the host of this conference I personally attended and covered in Washington last Friday.
	He is the brain behind the North American Union.
	Sure, and he's been on Lou Dobbs and... Or community, as I call it.
	But if you read... Hold on, I mean, he wrote towards the North American community, and then Bush basically, word for word, had it translated into the Security and Prosperity Partnership, signed in March of 2005.
	But all your articles start out with, the Marxist at the 9-11 meeting, the commie, the liberal.
	I mean, there's no... I make no...
	Apologies for the fact that I am an anti-communist and I oppose not only... No, my whole point is I am too, Cliff.
	The point is that it isn't the liberals running everything.
	They're all about the same people.
	Well, if you read my article, you'll see I'm hard on Bush.
	I'm hard on the corporations for exploiting NAFTA, for exploiting free trade, for trying to form these North American institutions, for the Congress not paying any attention, for the media covering it all up.
	It's all there.
	No, I understand that.
	Listen, I think you're certainly a lot better than the people you just mentioned.
	I mean, talking about Limbaugh, they're still denying there's even a North American Union and the things being created right now.
	Well, that's right, and they're in denial.
	I just confirmed yesterday that Tony Snow, the White House spokesman, had been on Lars Larson's show, I think, in Oregon.
	In January, when he was asked about this, and he says, oh, it's all an urban legend.
	Well, of course it's not!
	There's plenty of documents out there.
	I attended the conference I attended last Friday, under pastor sponsorship, was totally devoted to forming a North American legal system.
	They want to not only merge the economies and the political and social systems, but the legal systems of all three countries.
	That's what you do first.
	You create international law, then you have international courts, international police and military to enforce international law, and the international tax to fund it all, and we got the SPP.gov North American Summit meeting last September through Judicial Watch, and what's the first agenda?
	How to keep it secret from the people!
	And as a matter of fact, on Friday, tomorrow,
	There's a meeting of the Security and Prosperity Partnership in Canada.
	So this thing is going on.
	We've got to focus attention.
	See, I didn't know that.
	So today you're giving us something new.
	I didn't know that.
	There's another SPP tomorrow?
	Yes, exactly.
	I'll read you.
	This is from the Canadian Embassy.
	Now, we probably won't see much in the media about it, but it refers to all the three North American neighbors launched the Security and Prosperity Partnership in March 2005.
	And that the Chief Diplomats of Canada, Mexico and the U.S.
	will meet February 23rd in Ottawa.
	That's tomorrow to discuss all these issues.
	This is another meeting and we're trying through accuracy and media to get our media to finally pay some attention to what's going on.
	It is a constitutionally suspect and dubious process.
	I can't even confirm that President Bush actually signed the so-called agreement or memorandum that set up the S.P.E.A.T.
	Because they make that secret.
	But this is incredible.
	So, AIM just learned, this is the first I've heard of this,
	That they're having another one of these.
	Now, the one last year was secret.
	Obviously, this is going to be closed door, too.
	I wonder if the first issue on the agenda will be, again, secrecy.
	Imagine governmental actions going on, setting policies through the unelected bureaucracies.
	Congress has no involvement in this.
	They have the total authority.
	This is amazing!
	This meeting is being held tomorrow in Ottawa, Canada.
	Friday, February 23rd.
	All three top people from the U.S.
	government, Rice, Chertoff, and Gutierrez are there, as well as all their counterparts from Mexico and Canada.
	Now that's how the SPP works is they when they set this up there's three individuals from each of the three nations who then sit on this internal secret board and then you've got all these corporations there who are there to help implement this and did you see in the LA Times as well as the Associated Press
	That's exactly right.
	They are already starting some pilot projects, especially in California.
	To give Visa cards, MasterCards, credit cards to illegal aliens.
	One of the things that Robert Pastor said, and I interviewed him on Friday at this conference, was he wants, supposedly, to stop illegal immigration.
	He wants another $200 billion from Mexico, plus a national fraud-proof biometric national ID card to control the movement of people in and out of the U.S.
	All of that's in my article.
	Tell us more about this meeting you attended where they're trying to merge the legal systems.
	It was held under the auspices of the American University College of Law, sponsored by Pastors Center for North American Studies.
	This is a division of AU, a large college, university in the
	Nation's Capital that actually offers a minor to students in the subjects of North American Studies.
	I've got one research paper from one of the students that went through this place in which he calls for a North American Parliament
	The details are provided.
	I'm going to be writing more about that in the future.
	But this is, and they're actually now sponsoring what they call model North American Parliament meetings, sort of like model UN programs that permeate our schools, trying to get students to think in terms of the continent.
	Continental thinking.
	All of this was discussed at the Friday conference.
	Sure, continental integration.
	What did you discuss with the pastor?
	Well, what I discussed with him was his views on immigration.
	He does not favor, of course, controlling the borders.
	He thinks that's futile.
	He thinks there might be a role for some fences along some isolated high-crime areas of the border.
	But basically, he thinks the only way to keep them out of the U.S.
	is to pour another $200 billion into Mexico!
	He thinks that's going to make them rich!
	Oh yes, and then they'll have freedom, and then they'll be a trading partner.
	No, globalism is designed along neo-feudalist, neo-mercantile models to consolidate the wealth in the hands of a tiny elite.
	It's not a free market system, and then their own documents show that.
	How do we... Well of course it's not, and let me tell you one of the most fascinating things about this conference, and it was sort of a, I think, unexpected for Mr. Pastor, or Dr. Pastor.
	It was at the end of the conference on a panel featuring a Mexican ambassador who admitted that Mexico is hopelessly corrupt.
	He said there's too many payoffs and bribes and corruption.
	He said corruption permeates all of these governmental institutions, that reforms were attempted under
	President Fox, but they went nowhere.
	So it raises the whole question, then, at the end of this all-day conference about how to merge the Mexican economy into the U.S.
	How can we merge our country into a country, a regime, that's hopelessly corrupt?
	And that is one of the trump cards we have here, the fact that Mexico is a hopelessly corrupt country, that the government cannot be trusted, and why in the hell should we be trying to suggest
	A North American Union merging Mexico into our country.
	The only possible justification is that in their view, and this is why I went to the conference to get it right from the horse's mouth, Robert Pastor really believes, this is the liberal mindset, that we can only solve this problem by pouring more of our tax dollars into Mexico.
	Well, you say liberal mindset.
	I say elitist mindset.
	And they wear the phony conservative cloak or the phony liberal cloak as a defense to just get their constituents to support them.
	Why not call them what they are?
	These are monopoly men.
	These are people that believe in the almighty state.
	These are individuals that believe in centralization.
	And look, we're allies when it comes to true conservative beliefs.
	But, you know, when you come out, going back to TWA Flight 800, and you say, what we do know is the official story is a lie, same thing on 9-11.
	We can debate exactly what happened there, but we're being lied to across the board on 9-11.
	9-11 is being used to take our liberties while leaving our borders wide open, while being used for military expansionist operations that make our country less secure,
	And then we run into the problem of, I talk about North American Union, I have the documents.
	People are still in denial.
	You talk about it, they're still in denial.
	You can say I'm being condescending if I say you're in denial about 9-11.
	I mean, all I know is I'm going where I think the truth is and trying to get the best picture I can, Cliff, and I agree with you on about 90% of things.
	That could be.
	I'd have to go on these things case by case, but I'm telling you what I know, what I believe, and what I can prove.
	And one thing I've done in Washington
	for almost uh... uh... thirty five years as i go and cover these things myself i find out for myself that's why i was at the pastor conference on the north american community as he calls it and then we produce our reports we publish our information on the general value it's also sure what i don't have a little relation none of this is surmised when i said about pw eight eight hundred what i what we thought happened i i made a point of saying this is our best estimate this is our best guess but we don't know for sure but i do know this about nine eleven
	You mean Al-Qaeda?
	See, I think you confuse conspiracy theories with what I prefer, in some of these cases, to call a stupidity theory.
	We have a government... Why did FBI agent Robert Wright break down and cry and say, all I can tell you is, the Bushes' vacation would have been lunch?
	Is he a conspiracy theorist?
	I don't know who he is, or what he said, or what he meant, but I do know this.
	That there is a lot of corruption still in the CIA and the FBI.
	Okay, let's say the Arabs did 9-11, which isn't... I don't agree with that.
	Certainly there were some involved as Patsy's.
	15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.
	Why haven't we invaded Saudi Arabia?
	Why did we go into Iraq?
	I mean, you're not going to try to push the baloney that Saddam was with Al-Qaeda, are you?
	Well, if you want to discuss our foreign policy, that's a big issue too.
	And I'm not going to dispute that most of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.
	Most of these Arab-Muslim regimes in the world are not our friends.
	Why did James Baker block the suit by the widows against the Saudis?
	Well, I can't defend the Saudis or James Baker, and if you read anything we've said, we've been very critical of our foreign policy in this part of the world.
	We've, in fact, criticized
	Entities like Fox News, because we know that a Saudi prince, a billionaire prince, Prince Alouide, is a significant shareholder in Fox News.
	We are the ones who have been focusing attention on him.
	I know, but you guys have put that out.
	And those who are pulling some strings behind the scenes.
	We have been independent.
	I bet you didn't get invited back on Fox after you criticized him.
	Well, we haven't been on Fox for a while, but that's fine.
	We're not doing reports in order to get invited on radio or TV shows, but I will go on a lot of shows and offer my opinions, and I'll tell you this, that we do believe that Al Qaeda is a real terrorist organization.
	We think Al Jazeera is their mouthpiece, and it's a danger to the United States as well.
	That may be where we disagree.
	I do believe there are foreign terrorist threats out there,
	And we've got to be wary of them, and that too many in the Arab-Muslim world want to kill us.
	Well, and I guess giving up all of our rights, having national ID cards, but keeping the borders open and worshipping police in black ski masks will keep us safe.
	Well, as we just discussed, I'm certainly not in favor of an open border policy, and we were
	Uh, complaining about this going back a decade or more.
	So, we call it the way we see it.
	We've been critical of the Bush administration, and we've certainly been critical of their conduct in this case of the North American community.
	Cliff Kincaid, we're out of time.
	I want to get you back up in the future, and I will try to get some of your other writers on on issues we agree on.
	I just want you to know, I honestly, from the research we have, know it's an inside job.
	We have the evidence.
	If you look at it all congruently together, the official story is a fraud.
	The motive was there.
	The past history of staged terror by governments was there.
	Northwoods is there.
	And this is going to come out, just like Oklahoma City broke yesterday, just a smoking gun that McVeigh was being handled by the FBI.
	We already knew that from a hundred plus other sources.
	But this just makes it even stronger.
	And you and a lot of other people are going to be
	You know, looking pretty silly in the end when this all comes out.
	Look, we're not going to be stopped.
	36% of the public know it's an inside job.
	84% believe they're being lied to about 9-11.
	Those numbers are old.
	New polls coming out show even higher numbers, Cliff.
	Well, go to aim.org and read the latest piece about TWA 800 and 9-11.
	And some of the pieces of the puzzle will come together for you.
	Well, I have no doubt Sandy Berger is involved, and I agree with you there.
	Did you hear about Zbigniew Brzezinski coming out before the Senate Intelligence Committee just a few weeks ago saying that there may be a staged event blamed on Iran to get us into war?
	Well, you know, going back into history, of course, Brzezinski was part of the Carter administration that supported the Islamic terrorists.
	In Afghanistan when they were fighting the old Soviet Union and now that they've turned on us.
	Oh, Ronald Reagan supported them too.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	And then they turned on us.
	Well, I mean, but notice you bring up Carter when the main, I mean, Carter kicked off.
	And why did they turn on us, Alex?
	It's because they want to rule the world.
	We're out of time.
	I think everybody wants to rule the world.
	Cliff Kincaid, thanks for spending time with us.
	My pleasure.
	Take care.
	Final segment straight ahead.
	Stay with me.
	It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands.
	My new film Terror Storm is complete.
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	Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
	Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
	It's an anthology of government crimes.
	Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
	Get your copy today on InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv
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	This show is documented.
	Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	I fell into a burning ring of fire.
	Look, I'm sorry we don't have time to get to all your calls.
	I know the phones are loaded.
	We'll try to have some open phones next week for you.
	Full show is doing that.
	I had Cliff Kincaid set up yesterday because I wanted to argue with him and, you know, just show you how these people operate.
	But frankly, I should have just canceled him with this big Oklahoma City story.
	It's so huge that I can't even put it into words.
	Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
	There's another headline here that's even stronger.
	Nichols says bombing was FBI-op.
	A bunch of new developments in the first 30 minutes of the show today with the attorney who interviewed for a day and a half.
	That's Jesse Trinidad.
	And of course the newspapers, I talked to Mr. Trinidou off-air, didn't put one-tenth of the really hardcore stuff.
	Just what we know is a whitewash.
	Now he's restricted from going into the day and a half of interviews and the deposition he took from him.
	But he did bring out a little bit more about how they were staging these bank robberies as part of a government black-off, how he worked for a Pentagon assassination hit squad.
	It was just a totally staged event.
	Bombs inside the building, the whole nine yards.
	And Paul Watson's written two reports today on this.
	We've got the reports on the autopsy of his brother who matched someone else who they hung in his cell.
	Imagine the real guy they thought he was got hung in the cell after they caught him, but first they killed Trinidad's brother.
	You've got to go to InfoWars.com.
	We're good to go.
	We've been doing that almost every day now.
	It is hundreds of places bigger than the Drudge Report.
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	Terrible.