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Nov. 23, 2005 - Alex Jones Show
55:05
20051123_Roberts_Alex

In a radio interview on November 23rd, 2005, former Wall Street Journal associate editor and Assistant Secretary of the U.S Treasury, Paul Craig Roberts discusses with Alex Jones how torture is being used by the government to create a false sense of terrorist threat to justify martial law and gun control measures, as well as the lack of honor and integrity in the military. He also expresses concern over America's growing reputation as the most hated nation due to its actions in Iraq. The conversation then moves on to detaining terrorists without trial, torture's lack of effectiveness in achieving goals in Iraq, and the difference between the U.S Senate's vote to restrict detainees' access to the courts and the British Parliament's decision against extending detention periods. Dr. Paul Craig Roberts discusses the erosion of liberties in America under the Bush administration and the Republican Party's alleged interest in staging a new terrorist attack to regain political support. He talks about the escalating police state measures, including the use of torture, the suspension of habeas corpus, and the increasing control over individual freedoms. He also mentions an alleged confidential memo that circulated among senior Republican leaders, suggesting that another attack by terrorists on U.S. soil could reverse President George Bush's waning image as a leader and restore the GOP's political fortunes. The discussion then shifts to various issues related to global politics and economics, including the short-term prognosis for neocons, the US budget deficit and trade deficit, and the Federal Reserve Chairman's plan to print more money. The show also touches on local law enforcement agencies partnering with the CIA, setting up commissariats in their jurisdiction, and recent suspicious events that seem part of the police state being established.

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alex jones
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paul craig roberts
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alex jones
On with us, and he's Paul Craig Roberts, and let me just read the short bio on Dr. Roberts.
He's a John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute.
He is a former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal, former Contributing Editor for National Review, a former Assistant Secretary of the U.S.
Treasury.
He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
And I just had him on during the break.
I was talking to him.
I said, Dr. Roberts, what do you want to talk about?
And he brought up something that's in my list.
You know, when I call Dr. Roberts or Ron Paul or any of these great men, I don't, you know, pre-screen what we're going to talk about.
I just have them on.
We talk about whatever they think is important.
And it was right when I opened the show with today, this open acceptance of torture and the schizophrenia of what they're doing, putting people in prison.
But then the White House says that we're going to veto laws barring torture.
And, uh, Gonzales writes memos saying we can torture people to death if we don't call it torture, but none of them get impeached or go to prison.
And then, uh, and we found out about all these secret gulags that we reported on three years ago.
I mean, this is nothing new, nothing secret about them.
We know right where they're at.
Where they, admittedly, was in the Washington Post in early 2002.
They have the CIA section chief bragging that, oh yeah, we pressure them and torture them in, uh, in different countries.
Jordan and in, Egypt, and it said we even, we even do stuff to their kids in front of them.
Never forget that in the Washington Post.
I put that in my film of Rotaterini three years ago.
Here it is, they say they do stuff to their children in front of them.
And boy, we learned they do do that at Abu Dhabi.
We had General Janice Karpinski on a few weeks ago.
They tried to blame them for stuff, but she wasn't even allowed into these CIA-controlled wings.
And now that's what Cheney says.
He says, I don't Want the Army to be able to torture?
Okay, I'll compromise.
Just the CIA?
Well, that's who does it!
So you understand, when you're for this torture, folks, you're for these big, fat, disgusting demons cornering little children.
And I just can't believe... I mean, even the Nazis didn't brag about their torture on the radio or in the newspapers.
I mean, we're the first ever, I guess since ancient times, to openly say that we do all of this.
And, I mean, God help us.
I mean, this is just unbelievable, but I've said enough.
He's here to talk about that, talk about the police state, all the setups for martial law we see taking place, and he's got real conservative credentials, and he's Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
Thank you for coming on with us today, sir.
paul craig roberts
Hey, glad to be with you, Alex.
alex jones
What do you think of the statements I just made about how we're against torture, but we're going to ban the Senate.
We're going to veto the Senate saying you can't torture.
And well, Gonzales says we can kill people, but that isn't torture because we just changed the name.
And yeah, we got secret camps.
So what?
paul craig roberts
I think that the United States government is in the hands of a psychopath.
I mean, these are insane, dangerous people.
They're a disgrace to the human race.
They're certainly a disgrace to every American.
These people have somehow got to be rounded up and held accountable.
Every one of them, as far as I'm concerned, is a war criminal.
They should be turned over to the court at the Hague.
I don't think we've seen an administration this evil in my lifetime.
I include Stalin and Hitler.
alex jones
Well, they certainly have those grand designs, and I'm trying to understand this, Paul Greg Roberts, very strong words from you, but it's true.
Even Ron Paul, a month ago, without me prompting, said they may declare martial law, they may take our guns, we may all get arrested.
paul craig roberts
The question is, Alex, what the hell are they up to?
Let's just start with something simple.
Why do they want to torture?
It's well known, has been known forever, and all the intelligence services know it.
That when you torture people, you get bad information.
They tell you stuff just to stop hurting.
They'll make up anything.
They'll tell you what you want to hear.
alex jones
They want more false intelligence.
paul craig roberts
Well, it doesn't do them any good.
So the real question is, why do they want to torture people when it doesn't produce good information?
Could it possibly be that they need a whole bunch of terrorists who implicate themselves so they can prove there actually is a terrorist threat?
So they go round up... See, another thing, Alex, they know.
Our army knows, our government knows, the CIA knows, all these people they have in detention.
The likelihood of any of them being a terrorist is extremely low.
Most of these people, Alex, were rounded up in the equivalent of KGB, Stalin-era street sweeps.
They just happened to be there when troops came along and grabbed them.
Many of them, and it's been in the news, they have lawyers, many of them were people captured in Pakistan by Pakistani gangsters.
alex jones
And sold.
paul craig roberts
And sold to the Americans as terrorists.
alex jones
Well actually what the Army admitted and the head CIA officer in Afghanistan for two years said is that they would get between five and twenty five thousand dollars per man woman or child and they would just go into little mountain villages of people that never had left their village who didn't even know where America was on a map.
This is admitted And it was actual Taliban who would actually then come sell these innocent people.
And the Army's own report said 75-90% of those were completely innocent of even ever picking up arms against us.
And they were just children and families that didn't have papers in order.
paul craig roberts
Yeah, and Arab businessmen.
Anybody who's not protected were picked up by the warlords and the gangs and sold to the dumb shit Americans.
And so the people who are in these prisons are totally innocent people.
I bet you they haven't got five terrorists in the whole bunch.
And they know that.
But you see, they can't admit that they've made any kind of mistake or done anything that's stupid.
And they can't admit that They don't really know where the terrorists are, and they haven't caught any.
alex jones
But how do we get to the point of raping women and children in front of their husbands and fathers?
paul craig roberts
Well, obviously, the military is out of control.
It has no honor, no integrity.
No one is held accountable.
I mean, you know, it's worse than the Waffen SS, if you want to know the truth.
All this stuff about support the troops, support the troops, it doesn't make any sense.
Look, there's something in the Guardian yesterday, and they call it a name that lives in infamy.
This is in the Guardian, which is that big paper in Britain.
And it's about the American barbarism in Iraq.
And of course, we're the name that lives in infamy.
So, you know... How are we doing?
We are becoming the most hated nation.
alex jones
Well, I had Wayne Madison, who was, as you know, a NSA analyst, and he said, working for Reagan back in the 80s, as you did, he said if they saw this type of stuff, if they saw an administration doing this in the 80s, they would have thought it's a fifth column, it's communist, they're doing this to make America look bad, they're doing this to bring America down, they're doing this to destroy all of our international connections.
And I said, well, Wayne, isn't that what's happening?
And he said, you know, yeah, it's a corporate interest that just is strip mining and insanely just in a bloody orgy of feeding.
paul craig roberts
Well, I think it's the insane neoconservatives.
They deceived the nation.
They committed high treason.
They led us into war on lies.
It's not working for them.
They have to produce the image of massive numbers of terrorists to keep enough Americans on their side who are fearful.
And, oh, the terrorists.
They're going to get us.
See, they've got 750 terrorists in Guantanamo.
They haven't got seven terrorists in Guantanamo.
Why do you need to hold terrorists for three years without bringing charges?
If you know they're terrorists, it's very easy to bring charges.
alex jones
It's actually almost four now, sir.
paul craig roberts
Yeah, well, four.
However long.
I think I saw just the other day, Alex, that we've actually brought nine people to trial.
alex jones
No one's been convicted.
paul craig roberts
And no one's been convicted.
But we've brought nine.
So where are these terrorists?
If we know they're terrorists, why do we have to hold them four years?
Well, how come we don't listen when the lawyers representing their families say, you've got my husband and my father and he's a Saudi businessman and he was captured in Pakistan and sold to you guys?
alex jones
And then the army interrogators even go, look, these people are totally innocent and they get told, keep them.
We're not letting them go.
That's on record.
paul craig roberts
Yeah, because we have to have, see, All of this is bogus proof.
alex jones
Well, they also fired Brigadier General Rick Boggess, who refused to torture.
He said, I will not do this.
I will resign.
They said, no, you don't need to resign.
You're fired.
As I mentioned, Janice Karpinski, the general, she wasn't even allowed into these areas.
She complained, so they tried to blame it on her, but they admitted that the Army wouldn't torture.
They'd beat people up.
They said, we're not going to do it anymore.
So they actually hired prison guards from federal prisons with bad records of abuse I'm not denying what you're saying.
I'm just saying it's pointless.
What does it achieve?
unidentified
I know.
paul craig roberts
And the whole question is, why?
What does it achieve?
I'm not denying what you say.
I'm just saying it's pointless.
What does it achieve?
It doesn't achieve anything except the bad name for all Americans.
alex jones
It creates terror, as Lenin said, and it creates cadres.
It creates torture teams.
General Karpinski agreed with me.
She said they have created cadres of torture teams and then trained larger torture teams, sir.
paul craig roberts
Oh, you mean they're going to turn loose on us?
alex jones
Yes, sir.
unidentified
Yeah.
paul craig roberts
Well, that may well be what they have in mind.
But they certainly aren't...
Achieving any goal in Iraq except more casualties for Americans by making them hate us ever more.
alex jones
Unbelievable.
Sir, give us some more of your views on this when we get back.
Any other subjects you'd like to discuss?
It's always very interesting to have Dr. Paul Craig Roberts on with us.
I think I might have an answer.
We'll see what the doctor thinks about my answer to another reason they might do it.
See, Rumsfeld told us why.
unidentified
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All right, I'm frothing.
alex jones
But we should all be upset.
We should all be... I mean, I have Ron Paul on.
He's never talked like this.
He said, they may declare martial law, take our guns, and set up a dictatorship and start arresting us.
I mean, that's Ron Paul, folks.
Vietnam veteran, congressman, most conservative voting record.
This stuff is really happening!
They really are doing this!
But right before the Gulf War, in late 2002, they got a $6 billion federal program, a secret program funded, it was in UPI and the AP and a few other places, called P2OG.
And I don't know if Dr. Roberts is aware of this, But in P2OG they said we're going to kill people's family members.
We're going to attack Arabs.
We're going to stimulate an attack in the Middle East, widen it, and then we can go into Iran and Syria and other areas.
So the plan is, you know, when they tell our troops to go in and you get shot at the village, arrest every man down to age 11, bulldoze all their date palms, all their tangerine orchards, that is meant to generate, because do the corporations make more money if we're in Iraq a year and fix the problems and leave?
Or were there 10 years, 20 years?
Dr. Roberts, does that now make sense to you or do you disagree?
paul craig roberts
You know Alex, I don't know what to make of it all.
I do agree with you that terrible things are going on and they make so little sense that almost any explanation becomes believable.
But it's not, you know, all I can say about it is that I know that we are committing war crimes, we're in violation of the Nuremberg standard that we established when we put the Nazis on trial.
alex jones
What about federal law?
paul craig roberts
We're in violation of everything, yeah.
But, and why are they doing it?
You know, there's something wrong with the public, that it sits there like Idiots and lets a bunch of Nazis run wild.
But let me go back to, let's talk about, let's contrast the Senate's vote to restrict detainees access to the courts with what happened just the other day in the British Parliament.
Now, in the great United States, we hold ourselves up as this great democracy and liberty and freedom and liberty and freedom.
Bush goes on about it.
The Senate yesterday endorsed a plan, I'm reading from the Washington Post today, that would overturn the landmark Supreme Court ruling last year that permitted many of the detainees held at Guantanamo Bay To challenge their detention.
So, the Senate says, gosh, here's the Supreme Court is going to enforce the Constitution and let people have rights.
unidentified
We can't allow that.
paul craig roberts
And you had that Republican from South Carolina, Lindsey Graham, leading the charge to overturn the Supreme Court's upholding of the U.S.
Constitution.
And then they voted yesterday 49 to 42 to pass this law to overturn the Supreme Court decision that upholds the Constitution.
So here they are, the Senate, the United States Senate, voting to deep six the U.S.
Constitution.
And no doubt Bush will describe this as a great victory for freedom and democracy and liberty and blah blah blah.
Now what happened in England at the same time, on Wednesday, what happened the day before?
Bush's pimp over there, Blair, Tony Blair, somebody who is as despicable as Bush, he said, oh look, we want rights to hold the detainees for 90 days.
Now look, Bush wants to hold them indefinitely, forever.
And the British Prime Minister says, we only want to hold them for 90 days.
And the Parliament said, to hell with you, Buster, you can't do it.
alex jones
Well, it's ridiculous.
paul craig roberts
So, how come England will defend the constitutional right to habeas corpus?
And the United States said it won't.
alex jones
Well, Dr. Roberts, you sound like it's painful for you to talk like this.
I mean, you've been what I'd call a mainstream conservative for a long time defending the Bill of Rights, the Constitution.
I understand that you understand... Why is it painful for me?
paul craig roberts
These people aren't conservatives.
There's nothing conservative about the Bush administration.
alex jones
Exactly, but that's what I'm saying is that none of us are safe, and the heart of America is that Bill of Rights, that Constitution, habeas corpus, that's why we're America, and they're taking all that away and... So why is the Senate overturning it?
paul craig roberts
And we contrast that with Britain, and they won't even let Blair have 90 days.
They said, alright, we'll let a person be held 28 days without charges.
That's it.
In the United States, they're holding them forever without charges.
alex jones
Hey, after four years of torture, they'll do whatever you say.
Then we can parade them out and scare the public into submission.
unidentified
We're on the march.
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alex jones
All right, coming up in about ten minutes or so, we'll take a few calls in there specifically for Dr. Paul Craig Roberts and any of the police state issues we're discussing.
unidentified
But, hey.
alex jones
It's gotten just so obvious now how out of control all of this is, and we should all be upset.
The toll free number to join us on air is 1-800-259-9231.
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You can also read some of the great editorials and news articles that Dr. Roberts writes at lewrockwell.com.
We post a lot of them at infowars.com and prisonplanet.com, townhall.com.
They're all over the place.
He's written the book, The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
Yeah, these evil people use good people who think it's for good intentions to carry out this whole program.
And Dr. Roberts, of course, you were one of the major editors over at the Wall Street Journal, contributing editor for National Review.
What is it like for you, as a former Assistant Secretary of the U.S.
Treasury in the Reagan Administration, to see so many good conservative people I guess they were good.
I even have friends who I was on the page 100% with five, six years ago.
Now, they're like, yeah, we all gotta take microchips.
Yeah, because Bush and, you know, former Health and Human Secretary's person says it'll stop terrorism.
Andy Rooney says it.
I mean, this is insane, body-snatcher, weird stuff.
Oh, torture's good.
We gotta maybe give up some Second Amendment.
So what if Bush is for the assault weapons ban?
So what if Bush wants amnesty?
I mean, they're not even conservatives anymore.
They are literally Bush-worshippers Brown Shirt says, I know you've called them.
I want to get into more on the torture, more on the police state being set up here domestically, but when you talk to your old conservative friends and they're still worshipping Bush, what do you say to them?
paul craig roberts
Well, the real conservatives don't.
They're not in those places anymore.
There's no conservatives on the Wall Street Journal editorial page.
Everybody that I work with there has been run off.
The same at National Review.
The people at National Review are nothing like the people that used to be at National Review.
They've all been run off.
There aren't any conservatives in those places.
They're what I call Jacobins.
Neo-Jacobins or Neo-Nazis.
But look, I want to make one point here and then let's move on to the economy.
Because that affects people too.
I don't know if you, you may have already covered this Alex, but yesterday in the publication Capitol Hill Blue, it reports a confidential memo circulating among senior Republican leaders, suggests that a new attack by terrorists on U.S.
soil could reverse the sagging fortunes of President George Bush, as well as the sagging fortunes of the GOP.
You know, we got wiped out in the election the other day.
And restore Bush's image as a leader of the American people.
This is a closely guarded memo and it lays out a list of scenarios of another terrorist attack on the U.S.
in order to bring the Republican Party back from the political brink.
So that shows you the way these so-called Republicans think.
I'd like to say, too, these are nothing like the Republicans I work with.
They're nothing like the Republicans in the Bush administration.
I don't know who these people are or where they came from.
unidentified
It's almost like they came from out of space.
alex jones
Doctor, are you still there?
paul craig roberts
Yeah.
alex jones
Your phone cut out for a second.
It's almost like they're from where?
paul craig roberts
Out of space.
alex jones
No, it is very alien to our form of government and our way of life.
But, uh, we have other memos from the U.S.
government going back where they talk about terror attacks being helpful.
We have Gary Hart of the big CFR Commission, days after 9-11, saying we need to use this disaster to get a new world order, to get people's freedoms and liberty.
Let's, you know, make lemonade out of these lemons.
paul craig roberts
But, uh... Well, I don't think it's going to work for them.
I think they're going down in flames, myself.
alex jones
Well, I agree with you, sir, but let me say this.
I was not aware of this Capitol Hill Blue, which is very reputable.
We're going to be posting that right now, specifically, sir.
Fill us in.
Tell me about it.
paul craig roberts
Well, I did.
It's Capitol Hill Blue, November 10th.
Doug Thompson.
If you have an email, I can send you the URL.
alex jones
Oh, we can find it, sir.
What's the headline you have in front of you?
paul craig roberts
GOP memo touts new terror attack as way to reverse party's decline.
alex jones
Well, that's a smoking gun right there!
Well, it doesn't say they themselves are gonna... No, I know, but it shows them openly talking about it.
I mean, this is just... Boy, that would be helpful!
paul craig roberts
It may not work because it may simply prove that despite everything we're not safer.
So it's hard to know whether their idea would work or not.
People may simply say, well look, you took away all the rights, we went to war, you said all this and all that, and we're not safer.
alex jones
Well, that is the problem.
That is the problem with carrying out another terror attack.
And that's why they're always trying to do focus groups.
They've done focus groups engaged.
They had a big study, what, a year ago.
The White House paid for a study, I'm sure you heard about that, to see what our response would be to another terror attack.
And they found a narrow majority at that time, now they've eroded even more, would support more of their police state policies than there was.
paul craig roberts
I don't think people trust the President any longer.
alex jones
Oh, I agree.
paul craig roberts
And so I don't know that they could get away with it, but it doesn't mean in desperation they wouldn't try.
But look, Alex, let's talk a bit about the economy.
alex jones
Let's be specific, sir.
In desperation they wouldn't try what, Dr. Roberts?
paul craig roberts
They wouldn't try some sort of terrorist attack.
Please continue about the economy.
Look, Alex, when I was doing Russian studies, I learned that the Czarist secret police used to conduct bombings so they could blame somebody they wanted to get and arrest them.
alex jones
Yeah, that was the white Russians' favorite trick and then of course the Commissariat learned that and they passed it on.
paul craig roberts
Yeah, so, you know, the kinds of black job operations that governments do are notorious.
Can we talk a little bit about the economy?
alex jones
Oh, absolutely, sir.
Please.
paul craig roberts
That's what's really... Yeah, that's your specialty.
alex jones
Tell us about your particular position.
I mean, you were basically, in your position, Doctor, wasn't it running the Treasury?
paul craig roberts
The economic policy, yeah.
Look, are you aware that President George Bush has now borrowed more money from foreign governments and foreign banks?
Then every previous U.S.
president combined I was you know he has run up more debt in his time in office than we did in the first 224 years by existence from 1776 until 2000 I was not aware of that I was I knew that he had spent more than three or four presidents combined, but no, I wasn't aware of that.
No, not just spent, but borrowed from foreigners.
Foreign borrowing.
alex jones
Well, that's why a lot of experts are saying it looks like they're actually trying to bring America down.
paul craig roberts
Well, it certainly has given Asians tremendous power over us, because they hold enough of They've got treasury bonds now that just the threat to dump them would send our interest rates skyrocketing.
alex jones
Well the CFR openly laughs at America.
I've taped them on C-SPAN.
unidentified
Oh, it's over for us.
alex jones
It'll be the China century.
They're the model.
That's what we're all investing.
I mean, I'm sure you've read and heard where they gleefully dance on our graves, these pieces of trash.
paul craig roberts
Well, I suspect it will be China's century.
alex jones
Well, what is wrong with these neocons?
Why do they want to destroy America?
paul craig roberts
I don't know the answer.
But the real question is, why do Americans put up with them?
It's our fault.
There's only a few of them.
unidentified
You and I could probably take them out.
paul craig roberts
There's not very many of them.
Why do Americans put up with them?
Why do Americans believe them?
Why do Americans vote for them?
It's amazing to me.
alex jones
Doctor, it's almost like they have a spell, but I think the spell is lifting.
I mean, you were talking about that earlier.
People are starting to see through it.
paul craig roberts
Maybe, but let's get on now with the jobs.
The October job report came out a week ago, and the economy only created 46,000 private sector jobs.
Not even half of what was expected and not even a quarter of what it takes just to stay even with population.
Moreover, almost all those jobs were in construction and I would bet went to Mexicans.
So probably no jobs created for native-born Americans.
But the same month of October, The corporations laid off 81,301 people.
So the layoff rate is twice the job rate and those are jobs that probably didn't go.
alex jones
But Rush Limbaugh says our economy is the best it's ever been and it's a dirty commie lie.
paul craig roberts
What's the point of bringing up that fool?
Let's just stick to facts.
Rush Limbaugh hasn't got enough sense to justify his existence.
I'm not interested in that fool.
alex jones
Well, I mean, maybe if you take a hundred Oxycontin a day, it gives you some type of insight.
paul craig roberts
Oh yeah, I bet.
Now, so what does it mean if the layoff rate is twice the rate of new jobs?
It's not a very promising It's not a very promising outlook.
alex jones
Can I bring up another economic indice, and that's energy.
We have the oil companies own memos, starting back nine years ago, where they said we're going to buy up all the small, and I mean all, refineries, shut them down, restrict and cut back ours.
Then I watch, and then rip people off, create an artificial bottleneck, griping about Saddam over pumping, griping about Venezuela, because there's too much oil, they want to restrict it.
I don't think the oil companies, the American oil companies, don't own much oil anymore.
and says, "Oh no, we've built more refineries," which is a total lie, and then they questioned him more.
paul craig roberts
He said, "Well, we refitted..." Alex, listen, I don't think the oil companies, the American oil companies don't own much oil anymore.
They're mainly just retailers of gasoline, and they're actually even going out of the You can't build a refinery in the United States because of all the environmental stuff.
alex jones
No, I understand, but that's how this whole thing has been set up.
So my question is, where is it going with the energy prices being so high?
paul craig roberts
Or where is it going with all prices going to be so high?
Look, let me get on with this stuff.
If you want to talk about oil, let's look at it this way.
The U.S. trade...
trade deficit with China alone, with just China, the American trade deficit with China, is 28% greater than our entire oil import bill.
alex jones
Isn't it like $80 billion a month or something?
paul craig roberts
No, it's $160 billion last year.
alex jones
I guess the total trade deficit every month was $80-some billion.
I saw that number.
paul craig roberts
The total trade deficit this year was about $700 billion.
So you can divide that by 12.
alex jones
I wonder why I saw that number of a trade deficit of $80-something billion in one month.
Maybe it was some big month or something.
paul craig roberts
It could have been that much in any month.
But to look at this, see, people say, oh what about, we have to have Energy independence.
Energy independence.
But our energy imports are small compared to our imports of advanced technology products, manufactured goods, consumer goods, automobiles.
If we need energy independence, why don't we need manufacturing independence?
Why don't we need innovation independence?
That people are so fixated on energy for, because, as I just pointed out... Well, it's something they can actually feel on a day-to-day basis.
alex jones
It's something they can actually see.
paul craig roberts
Well, maybe they can actually see it, but it's not a significant element in our imports.
It's not a significant element.
alex jones
Well, Dr. Roberts, where do you see it going then?
I mean, if the neocons stay in, or if they fall, or will we go into a depression?
I mean, where do you see this going over the next year, the next five years, the next ten years?
Give us your prognosis.
paul craig roberts
Well, Alex, here's what's happening.
Middle class jobs are being outsourced, or being filled by importing foreigners on work visas.
H-1B work visas, L-1 work visas.
The American middle class hasn't got any employment.
Their jobs are all shipped out or filled with foreigners.
So this will close down, this will kill the universities.
alex jones
They're being systematically targeted.
paul craig roberts
Well, it can look that way.
I think it's just short-run stupidity by itself on the part of corporations.
They say, oh, we can get foreigners cheaper, but then they have to I wonder what happens to the American market?
If they destroy the American consumer market because they give all the good jobs abroad, who's going to buy the stuff here?
alex jones
Well, Dr. Roberts, the globalist in many different official UN reports and others have said this internationalism is about global corporations being more powerful than any country, and they want us all interdependent.
They don't want a strong nation state.
They don't want a strong America.
paul craig roberts
Look, they may not, but they won't be able to do anything about China.
Or India or Russia.
They're not going to put up with a globalist.
alex jones
Yeah, why is the elite giving up its main engine of power, the United States?
paul craig roberts
That's the question.
I think it's just utter stupidity.
It's short.
It's three month quarterly reporting where everyone focuses on what's the three months Results.
And oh well, we laid off another 10,000 people and hired Indians in their place and our profits went up and we get bigger bonuses.
And that's as good an explanation as any.
alex jones
It doesn't imply some kind of... But why would there be federal programs to pay U.S.
companies to move overseas and then insure the investment if it fails?
paul craig roberts
A lot of those things date from the Cold War, where one of our strategies to contain communism was to develop the vulnerable countries, the ones that were poor and poverty-stricken and seemed to be-- - Yeah, prop 'em up.
So these things last long beyond, it's the Cold War's over, but the programs are still there.
alex jones
So what is the short term prognosis?
What do you think is going to happen?
Do you think the neocons will fall or will they just keep rolling on?
They're talking about going into Syria right now.
They just broke relations with them.
paul craig roberts
Yeah, I think that they're going to fall because I don't think the world is going to put up with them.
And we think we're a superpower, but we're not.
When you produce, see, this year the budget deficit is about $500 billion.
The trade deficit is about $700 billion.
That's $1.2 trillion we had to borrow, mainly from foreigners.
They're our bankers.
If they say, well, we're not going to lend, we're helpless.
We're not a superpower.
alex jones
Stay with us, sir, for a final segment on the other side.
We're talking to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
We've been covering a whole gamut of issues.
Very informative.
And coming up later, we'll have Bob Dacey in studio who went to the Free Trade Area of the Americas meeting.
Interesting.
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You know, I was out of the studio, actually trying to kick the Basset Hound out of the studio.
alex jones
He tries to climb up in my lap, but he's a huge Basset Hound.
One of my staff's dog, Baron, always causing problems.
So I didn't find out during the break.
Can Dr. Roberts stay with us five minutes to the next hour?
unidentified
Good.
alex jones
Conduct that business here on air, that way we can jam in.
Ron, Jeff, Mark, Charles, and Lou.
Lou's been holding the longest, but I don't think he's for the guest.
We'll get to you.
But Bob, Daisy, Lou, if you want to hold even more, God bless you.
Dr. Roberts, we've just got about three minutes now, about five minutes to the next hour, but just in a nutshell, before I go to these calls, and I'm going to go right to them, we've got the new Fed chairman coming in, we've got him saying, I'll print even more money.
I love printing money.
Where do you see it going?
I mean, are they going to lead us into total ruin?
unidentified
Yes.
paul craig roberts
Yes, they're going to lead us into total ruin.
They're destroying the tax base with the middle class.
The spending is out of control and they're entirely dependent on foreign borrowing.
They have to borrow from foreigners, which gives foreigners more and more power over our policy.
China routinely threatens it, as you know.
Let's take a call.
We're on in New York, here on the air with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
into treasury bonds, and so could the Japanese.
But they seem to be too tame to do anything like that.
But if they wanted to, they could bring us down.
alex jones
China routinely threatens it, as you know.
Let's take a call.
Ron in New York, you're on the air with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
Go ahead.
ron in new york
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
Doctor, it's a pleasure to hear a man who can apply logic so cogently and so precisely.
unidentified
In fact, I have.
alex jones
Good to hear from you, Ron!
ron in new york
Yes, yes, I've been out of circulation for a while, but I'm back.
alex jones
What's on your mind?
ron in new york
Okay, to address a few things relative, of course, to what the doctor has been driving at.
Today it was actually reported in New York Newsday that the police commissioner of New York City has gone into a memorandum of understanding with the Central Intelligence Agency.
We have a local, it has to be emphasized, local law enforcement agency.
alex jones
Oh, we have it in Austin.
They're setting up local commissariats.
ron in new york
Yep, and in fact, he has retained, and it seems to be a very favorite place for people who retire from the CIA to come and get a job in retirement, the NYPD.
So we definitely got strange going on here.
A few other things that have struck me very odd over the last several weeks, and they follow this way.
I begin to strongly suspect events in the world, case in point, The explosions in Jordan.
Now, if anybody knows Muslim culture or Arabic culture, they would know that attacking a wedding is an extremely taboo thing to do in that culture, if you're not aware of that.
That's a very, very taboo thing.
alex jones
Oh, but Mr. Al-Syeda, Abu-Basab al-Zawahiri, he took credit.
He's only been killed 10 times, and injured 50 times, and murdered 24 times.
I mean, it's just total ghost.
ron in new york
My point is, why would a leader looking for empathy in the Arab world do something?
alex jones
Okay, we're going to let you go because we've got more callers.
Dr. Roberts?
paul craig roberts
I think he has a very good point, Alex.
He has a very good point, and I saw the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, initially said that all the Israelis in those hotels had been given prior warning and were pulled out.
alex jones
And it's confirmed that Netanyahu got a warning on 7-7.
paul craig roberts
They later retracted that.
But I think the caller did have a very cogent observation.
alex jones
What about local CIA offices?
They're setting those up.
paul craig roberts
Well, it's just more paraphernalia of the police state.
alex jones
But that's illegal!
They haven't changed that law!
paul craig roberts
You don't list about everything they do is illegal, Alex.
The war is illegal.
alex jones
How do they get away with that?
Write the memo that says torture people, and then they say they're for torture, but then they send people who follow their orders to prison?
paul craig roberts
It looks like Americans just don't care.
It looks like they don't care.
Or they're macho, or they're, oh well, that's just ragheads.
alex jones
Yeah, they don't understand.
This whole thing is directed at us, folks.
That's unbelievable.
Stay there, sir.
We'll be right back with a quick five-minute segment.
We'll jam in three more calls for you.
Callers, it's going to be quick.
unidentified
Stay with us.
alex jones
This broadcast is available on MP3 CD format at GCNlive.com or call toll free 877-300-7645.
unidentified
Big Brother.
Mainstream media.
Government cover-ups.
You want answers?
Well, so does he.
He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
alex jones
That's right, folks.
Genesis.
Often imitated, never duplicated.
And we've got to move really quick.
I'm so honored to have Dr. Paul Craig Roberts on with us.
Bob Dacey, who was at one of these local FTAA takeover meetings.
He's coming up in the next second, but I want to get through your calls really fast, so be quick callers.
Be fair to the other people.
Jeff and Mass, thanks for holding your own here with Dr. Roberts.
paul craig roberts
Go ahead.
unidentified
Yes, very simple question.
Do you think that the torture in Iraq will come here to America, i.e., if we sever our martial law and they should start arresting patriots, Conservative, constitutionalist, and anybody who's a thorn in the flesh of government.
alex jones
Doctor?
paul craig roberts
Yeah, I think torture, I think it's actually already here.
You may remember the police used to beat people up all the time to get confessions, and then what was known as the Warren Court, the big liberal court, made a lot of rulings which stopped
uh... domestic uh... torture by the police of suspects i'm told that in a number of prisons with bad wardens that torture already goes on in the united states but i'm absolutely sure that if uh... an institution that was once known for its honor and integrity the united states military it is undertaking torture in iraq
If they can corrupt the military like that, it would be very easy to corrupt the police.
alex jones
Thanks, Jeff.
Absolutely.
I mean, our military was always the good guys.
We didn't do that.
And now we do.
Let's talk to Mark in Louisiana, or excuse me, Las Vegas, then Charles in Louisiana.
Go ahead, Mark.
unidentified
Yeah, I was in the Marine Corps, and I tell you, we were not, and we were trained to, you know, not torture.
Yeah, the doctor, he's sharp here.
I was going to bring up that GOP memo.
Uh, I guess I can just add, uh, one of the things, one of the other scenarios about him is capturing Osama Bin Laden, in parenthesis it puts, or proof that he is dead.
Uh, so that'll, that'll be an interesting one.
Uh, I wonder when that's gonna come up.
But, uh, the question I had, uh, uh, and I'd like to get, uh, the doctor's opinion on this.
I noticed a long time ago, uh, one of the people that got caught up in the CIA's bragnant when they were sending their leader jets around the world to, uh, kidnap, Some guys to bring to their torture camps happen to be a son of a prominent and wealthy opponent of none other than Qaddafi.
It was the son of an opponent of Qaddafi.
alex jones
Well, Qaddafi's our buddy now.
He's good.
We've never been at war with him.
unidentified
And I wonder, number one, is Qaddafi, by chance, deep cover CIA?
And number two, it seemed to me that perhaps their policy is to go after Prominent, you know, wealthy people who have some influence.
alex jones
Okay, we've got to get that question answered now.
Thanks for the call.
paul craig roberts
Doctor?
No, I just couldn't answer it.
I just don't know.
alex jones
Let's talk to Charles in Louisiana.
paul craig roberts
Last caller.
alex jones
Charles, thanks for calling.
What's on your mind?
charles in louisiana
Thanks for taking my call, Mr. Jones.
Louisiana, it's been took over.
The economy's down.
They're cutting the workers and they're giving more money away.
New Orleans has got all Mexican workers.
They're charging $300 a month for a tent in City Park.
$300 a month just to put a tent.
They don't want the people back in New Orleans.
You watch and see, when the truth comes out, how easy it is to take over a state.
It's unbelievable what's happening.
alex jones
Well, we know that was engineered, and Dr. Roberts has talked about that here on the show.
Charles, call back again later next week.
I want to get a report from you from Louisiana.
You did a great job during the floods, and Godspeed, my friend.
I hope you're doing well.
We're now closing out here, Dr. Roberts.
Would you like to comment on what did happen in New Orleans?
paul craig roberts
Well, you know, just another criminal act.
I do think it happened on purpose.
And what their goal is, I couldn't say for sure.
alex jones
Well, we know they'll get to hand out a couple hundred billion dollars in contracts with their buddies.
paul craig roberts
No, they're handing them out to Mexicans.
Well, why are they cutting the American workforce out?
That's the real question.
Why do they have all these Mexican construction firms in New Orleans?
alex jones
I did see that!
paul craig roberts
Yeah, well, what's going on?
I mean, why?
You know, normally, Congress wouldn't permit it.
alex jones
I hear you.
Dr. Roberts, thanks for coming on.
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