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Filename: 20050112_Wed_Alex.mp3
Air Date: Jan. 12, 2005
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Time	Text
	Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	It's January 12, 2005.
	I'm Alex Jones, your host.
	We'll be live for the next three hours.
	Coming up in about 30 minutes, we'll be talking to Elaine Castle.
	Practices law in Virginia and the District of Columbia.
	Teaches law and psychology.
	And follows the Bush regime's dismantling of the Constitution and civil liberties.
	She is author of The War on Civil Liberties, How Bush and Ashcroft have Dismantled the Bill of Rights.
	She's an expert on Mr. Chertoff, who's going to be our new Homeland Security leader.
	And then, of course, in the second hour, Pat Shannon.
	Concerning new developments, I mean, we already knew that the
	BATF practiced blowing up a whole bunch of rider trucks out in the desert in the weeks before the Oklahoma City bombing as part of the National Security Council secret program.
	Not just trucks, folks.
	Rider trucks.
	Out in the desert.
	Pat Shannon with American Free Press is going to be joining us because new documents have been released and declassified.
	With the BATF leader
	Right there.
	Calling in that it was an ANFO or fertilizer bomb within 10 minutes to BATF headquarters in Dallas.
	We also had one of the chief FBI agents who told mainstream media that he was in Dallas and drove to Oklahoma City.
	Turns out we have his receipts from the hotel.
	He was there, of course, the night before.
	It goes on and on and on and on and on.
	And then in the third hour, Daniel Hopseeker, and just an amazing individual, making documentary films for many years, has a great website, madcalproduction, madcalprod.com.
	He was good enough to allow us to post his Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus
	His film getting into the hijackers and government involvement and how they were trained at U.S.
	military bases and trained at private facilities.
	We posted that at prisonplanet.tv.
	They're for members at prisonplanet.tv.
	It's one of the new videos we posted this week.
	He'll be joining us in the third hour.
	So a jam-packed broadcast today.
	The first thing I want to talk about, though, is I was in the shower this morning, and I've got one of those little radios you can listen to the radio in the shower with, and I'm in there listening to the radio, local AM radio, and they're announcing how wonderful it is that all over the city of Austin there are federally funded checkpoints.
	Where they stop your cars and search everyone, and the police officer who co-hosts the program was saying how this is how we stop crime and stop drunks, and why while we're checking your license and registration and insurance, we might find other illegal things.
	And so as I'm in the shower for 20 minutes, I listen to it.
	As I'm brushing my teeth and combing my hair another 15 minutes, I'm listening to it.
	As I'm getting dressed, I'm listening to it.
	And then drinking coffee, I'm listening to it.
	On the computer, I'm listening to it.
	There were probably 20 callers.
	One of them was for it.
	All the other callers were against the checkpoints.
	We're sick of the police state.
	We're sick of this going on.
	The one caller who was for it was a foreigner.
	Well, in my country, they search us routinely.
	I have no problem with it.
	I mean, it's just amazing.
	So I wanted to talk a little bit about checkpoints
	And the Cashless Society tracking control grid.
	There's so much other news.
	You'll want to stay with us.
	Don't forget one of the other websites.
	Infowars.com.
	Stay with us.
	Hey folks, Alex Jones here, and I'm very excited to announce the release of my bombshell documentary film, 9-1-1, The Road to Tyranny, on DVD.
	That's right folks, DVD.
	The original film was 144 minutes long.
	The DVD version is 170 minutes.
	If you want to wake up your friends and family to the truth of what happened on September 11th, this is the film for you.
	The Road to Tyranny is already sending shockwaves through Washington and across the United States.
	We're good to go.
	That's 888-253-3139 or order online at Infowars.com or Infowars.net.
	Again, that number, 888-253-3139.
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	Hello folks, this is Alex Jones.
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	Not yet available in Iowa.
	He's the T-Rex of political talk.
	Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	I want to talk about the tracking grid.
	The Pentagon helped design it for the United States.
	It's going in around the world in countries that have been captured by the globalists.
	It consists of cameras on every major road, every major side street where you cannot travel more than a mile anywhere in the country.
	This is their plan without being tracked by a camera.
	The cameras are hooked into software that instantly scans and reads your license plate and then runs it through a database.
	And then of course this has the dual use of taxing you by the mile between camera points.
	That's how they're already taxing in Germany, France, England and at least two states
	In the United States.
	And now the LA Times comes out yesterday, and the LAPD squad cars are going to have these scan cameras on them, where the police don't have to aim the cameras, the cameras are constantly reading all license plates.
	It's an AI, artificial intelligence, where it hones in on the shape of a car, zooms in on the back or the front, instantly scanning millisecond by millisecond, then changing the cameras views.
	It can scan all the cars, one police car can, going down the highway.
	A cop car can just sit there and scan every license plate.
	But again, these same systems, the same software is in all the big cameras that you see up on the highways and street corners and now in our neighborhoods.
	And I've been telling you this for years.
	I saw the federal plans on this about eight years ago.
	I would read federal documents on air.
	I would get emails from people going, you're an insane conspiracy theorist.
	Are the Martians going to get me?
	I talked about how the feds were pressuring the states to start...
	Taxing by the camera scanning the license plates, or by small transponders the size of a matchbox that will tax and trace you.
	Also, they want to go even further.
	Some states like California, Oregon, New York, Indiana, Wisconsin, Florida, and Texas are now looking...
	And New Jersey.
	Forgot that one.
	Are now looking, in fact Oregon's trying to pass a law, so is California right now.
	They have a law introduced in New York as well.
	Trying to pass a law to make you, when you go to get your tags, just like they do the emissions test, your car goes in the line for a few hours and they put a satellite box, satellite tracker box on your dash that tracks and traces everything you do.
	Now, they can do this with the cameras.
	They can tax and trace with the cameras or the transponders.
	But they want to go even further with the satellite boxes, which, by the way, hook into the ignition and can kill your car.
	And lo and behold, I heard all of this being discussed on the radio this morning here in Austin on the biggest local morning talk show, AM talk show.
	And they've got a police officer who is one of the co-hosts who I've grown up listening to.
	And there's admissions of the cops are putting systems in cars.
	Soon all the cars will have it where they can remote control kill your car.
	Yes, there's checkpoints being set up all across Austin in the mornings where they search your vehicles and stop the cars and why we're looking for seatbelts and driver's licenses and...
	Insurance and why we find other criminal stuff while we search you.
	And he went on and on and on and on how great it was.
	And so I listened to it for a good, I don't know, hour and a half.
	This morning.
	And they took about 20 calls.
	One caller called in who was for it.
	He was a foreigner.
	He talked about how in his country the police searched him whenever they wanted to.
	It was no big deal.
	Why don't you move back to your
	Third World Thug Nation.
	And the other two hosts on the show, they were against it as well, but they were kind of in the middle, you could say, but leaning towards being against it.
	And the police officer kept dropping back with, well, we've just got to stop drunks.
	But wait a minute, you admitted it was to search for driver's license and registration and insurance and look for other illegal things.
	I've been through these checkpoints.
	We've shot video of them.
	I put it in Police State 2000, one of the first big federally funded ones, where they shut down I-35 for at least eight, nine months.
	I mean, it took us an hour to get up.
	Two miles, because our exit was up towards the middle of the checkpoint, or up towards the last third of the checkpoint.
	But we got on I-35 at William Cannon, and just to get down to Slaughter took an hour.
	Slaughter Lane, where they were slaughtering the Bill of Rights.
	And many of you have seen that video locally in Austin on my TV show where you whip through the checkpoints yourself.
	And I just got out of the car and took my camera up and started saying, You're violating the Fourth Amendment!
	You're violating America!
	You're destroying America!
	And some police were nodding and looked upset.
	Others tried to come over and get my face.
	And I just said, Arrest me.
	You're destroying America.
	I don't care.
	Well, now they have these many checkpoints with 10, 15 police out there.
	And they're quasi-checkpoints.
	It's like, well, we're here to catch people running red lights, which I have no problem with setting up a couple of cops to do that.
	But no, we've been through these.
	They're just randomly stopping cars, pulling people over, going through all this, and it's federally funded.
	And here was this police officer.
	People are calling in going, it violates the Bill of Rights.
	We're not all guilty until proven innocent.
	You know, we have...
	The presumption of innocence.
	And he's like, well, we've got to do this.
	We've just got to stop the crime.
	We've just got to do it.
	We've just got to do it.
	Then move to another country.
	Leave America.
	Get out of here.
	Don't tell me to leave, love it or leave it.
	America is about standing up for what you believe in in the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
	But I want people to get it through their heads out there that are for this.
	Every one of these cameras on the streets, on the neighborhoods, on the side roads, they're all having face scanning software hooked into them.
	That is, the places that the cameras feed back to, the federally funded emergency management systems and emergency management centers.
	It's all being fed into face scans, face scanning software, face scanning servers.
	It's all being fed through these license plate scanners.
	Texas already has it.
	Almost every state already has it put in in most of its cities.
	The feds have got it.
	About three years ago, my father called.
	It was about 7.30 in the morning.
	He said, son, turn on C-SPAN.
	So I went and I turned on C-SPAN, and they had one of the federal bureaucrats on from the Transportation Department, and they were showing cities.
	They had big screens up.
	C-SPAN was there at their command center in D.C.,
	And they were showing all these different cities, and they cut to Austin and showed the highways and showed the roads.
	And they said, we control traffic here locally, but we also look for terrorists and scan the license plates from this main center.
	So, again, this is real, folks.
	This is happening, but here it is yesterday in the Los Angeles Times.
	I have another article here out of Green Bay where the police got a federal grant to put thumb scanners in the police cars.
	And guess what?
	When they pull you over and think you have a warrant, that's not when they use this.
	Everyone who is stopped, everyone who is ticketed, is fingerprinted.
	So now you don't get arrested for going five miles over the speed limit.
	You get your ticket and they thumb scan you
	And when you go to Disney World, they thumb scan you.
	And when you go to, like I tried to do a year ago, this is on the website, just type in SeaWorld, InfoWars.com into a search engine, it'll pop up.
	You try to go to SeaWorld, they hand scan you.
	Everything you do, everything you buy, everywhere you go.
	Let me break this down again for people.
	Let me make this as simple as I can.
	Diamond Shamrock.
	I have a friend who works there.
	I'm getting gas.
	I see a woman buying a 12-pack.
	She's obviously over 40 years old.
	Got gray hairs.
	He asks for a driver's license.
	Actually, the lady beside him did.
	Behind the counter.
	Scans it.
	When she leaves, I say, man, I've been seeing 80-year-old women being scanned for cigarettes.
	I go, why are you doing this?
	He said, look, we've been told you're buying beer, you're buying cigarettes.
	It doesn't matter if you're on a walker.
	With an oxygen mask, and that was his words, we have to scan your license.
	And he said, come behind here.
	Because nobody was in the store.
	He said, come behind here.
	And he showed me.
	He said, when I scan your license, it goes to the Texas Department of Public Safety.
	It checks the database if you have warrants.
	Now listen to this.
	Or if your license is expired.
	And he said, we've been told soon.
	Very soon, we're going to be scanning driver's license for any purchase.
	And I pointed over to cupcakes.
	And I said, if I want those chocolate cupcakes, I'm going to have to do it.
	He said, that's what we've been told.
	And he said, that's all I can say.
	And the woman beside him was just giggling.
	Now, he's a good guy.
	He's probably listening to the show right now.
	I want to say hi to him.
	I'm not going to say where it's at or which time in Shamrock.
	There's probably 50 of them in Austin, so he's not in great danger.
	But I'm going to try to talk to him later, see if I can get behind the counter with a video camera and show this.
	We had a... Tech's got employees show us, got video of internal computers showing how your driver's license number is already called your national ID, by the way.
	This was four months ago before they passed it in Congress.
	With their internal computers, they tell you, give us your driver's license number, but really it's called national ID on their computer interface.
	So, worse than 1984 has nothing to do with terrorism, and people better get this through their heads.
	And I talked years ago about how in the future you go into a store, you're not a good globalist.
	You won't be able to buy without the card, and they're going to hit a button and call the police.
	I'm telling you, we're going to see it happen unless we stop it.
	We'll be right back.
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	Waging war on corruption.
	Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	Madonna.
	Ever thought I'd be talking about Madonna?
	Is running around saying that Jewish mysticism, the Kabbalah, can heal entire countries.
	It's just incredibly powerful.
	She's out promoting this.
	That's part of the occult cult.
	Uh, activities that the Jews picked up when they were in captivity in Babylon.
	And, uh, well, that's Madonna out promoting that.
	Meanwhile, police begin fingerprinting on traffic stops.
	This is out of WBAY-TV.
	If you're ticketed by Green Bay Police, you'll get more than a fine.
	You'll get fingerprinted, too.
	It's a new way.
	Police are cracking down on crime.
	If you're caught speeding or...
	Playing your music too loud or other crimes for which you might receive a citation, Green Bay police officers will ask you for your driver's license and your finger.
	It will be fingerprinted right there on the spot.
	The fingerprint appears right next to the amount of the fine.
	Police say it's meant to protect you in case the person they're citing isn't you.
	Who they claim to be, but not everyone is sold on the explanation.
	And again, it integrates them with the thumb scan, the finger scan you do when you get a driver's license.
	What we've seen happening in the last couple of years, increasing use of false fraudulent identification documents, Captain Greg Urban said.
	Folks, it was the governor of Wisconsin a few years ago, this is in my film Matrix of Evil,
	One of the small blurbs in the film, we have the news articles.
	Every cell phone tracks you and can listen to you with audio, even when it's off.
	And he admitted this and said they're going to pay in the emergency management systems for the new tax that every phone is tracked and is a dot on a screen.
	They just punch in your name and know where you're at and can listen to you.
	It's no big deal.
	Ergonomics Today is announcing they're trying to pass a federal law where there'll be infrared cameras in all cars watching you.
	Via cell phone uplink.
	Again, total brick brother, worse than 1984, just openly being announced.
	Very, very interesting.
	Search for banned arms in Iraq ended last month.
	The hunt for biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons in Iraq has come to an end nearly two years after President Bush ordered U.S.
	troops to disarm Saddam Hussein, his business partner.
	Two top CIA weapons hunters who have come home have said.
	And so they're no longer looking for the weapons that they sold them.
	Also, U.S.
	trade deficit soars to all-time high of $60.3 billion in November alone.
	They always get these numbers three or four months later.
	Now we've got the numbers for November of 2004.
	This just came out today.
	$60.3 billion in November!
	But they said a plunging dollar would cause...
	More manufacturing here.
	Well, you have to have industry to begin with.
	And that's not the case.
	So, record monthly trade deficit of $60.3 billion.
	Continuing, the FBI probes more laser shots at airplanes, but to our knowledge there was no danger to the aircraft, said Kathy Byrie, spokeswoman for the FBI in Los Angeles.
	Regardless of that, anyone who they believe may have pointed a toy laser at anything, any government vehicle, will be charged as a terrorist, and they have now charged the individual up in New York who aimed one of the lasers with his daughter.
	Remember the Navy SEAL photos that came out a few weeks ago of them beating people?
	I found some more of these photos, and it shows the guy before and after.
	With cuts on him and blood all over him, I mean, it's pretty gruesome.
	Now the AP's reporting a former Navy SEAL says he saw fellow SEALs and CIA officials kick, choke, and eye gouge detainees at a U.S.
	military base in Iraq.
	Another base, by the way.
	Of course, they torture them in all the bases.
	The former SEAL testified at a military hearing Monday that he saw interrogation by means of abuse.
	Oh, it's not torture.
	Take place at Camp Jenny Posse, the SEAL base in Baghdad International Airport.
	He said a prisoner under the interrogation by the CIA was abused in October of 2003 by two other SEALs.
	One other occasion, a month later, the witness said he watched a SEAL punch, choke, and poke their fingers in the eyes of an Iraqi, Mandel Al-Jamadi, who was also punched by a CIA official when he didn't answer questions.
	And see, the problem with this is, what happens when our troops get tortured?
	Well, we'll engage in double thinking and go, well, that's bad.
	It's very evil to torture, but it's good when we do.
	AWOL soldier cites army inadequacies, this out of AP, and talking about how, literally, in whole platoons, half their guns might work.
	I mean, the guns don't even work.
	And they just tell them, sorry, you don't get guns that work.
	The guns don't work, folks.
	They're old, worn out pieces of junk, and they're going, look, we're not going to do it.
	We're talking about people who've been in Iraq for years, they've already served, and they're going, look, I'm quitting.
	End of story.
	I've been asking for a rifle that works, and you won't give me one.
	And then a whole group of soldiers from one platoon went public.
	How dare them?
	Charge them as Al Qaeda sympathizers.
	They want guns that work.
	Let them eat cake.
	How dare them?
	We're on the march.
	The Empire's on the run.
	Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
	You've asked for them and now they're here.
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	Whether you are aware or not, World War III has started.
	Let me rephrase that.
	Oil War III has started.
	Don't kid yourself, the reason we went into Iraq is oil.
	Now we are looking at the possibility of invading Iran and even Saudi Arabia.
	Why else would the US be building 13 permanent military installations inside Iraq?
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	Monday through Friday from 11 a.m.
	until 2 p.m.
	Central Standard Time.
	We're here live and back from 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
	Coming up in the next hour, we've got Pat Shannon coming on to talk about new information on the Oklahoma City bombing.
	And believe me, you don't want to miss this.
	The BATF testing, blowing up rider trucks full of ammonium nitrate in the months and weeks before the Oklahoma City bombing, and the head of that program being on the ground in Oklahoma City the morning of the bombing, calling it in, telling the press it was an AMFO bomb.
	Ah, yes.
	Very, very interesting.
	Coming up in the next hour, we've also got Daniel Hopsinger.
	Incredible documentary filmmaker and researcher joining us in the third hour, and speaking of Daniel Hopsinger, on PrisonPlanet.tv, for those of you that are online, we have a membership system.
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	With Dean Haglund, star of The X-Files and Lone Gunman, about government prior knowledge of 9-11, about how they did that episode where the government remote controls a jet, attempts to into the World Trade Center for martial law, how that came out months before 9-11.
	That interview is going up on the site.
	I believe it's already up there, the Daniel Hopsinger interview, or a documentary is up there.
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	Now, I am honored to be joined by the author of The War on Civil Liberties.
	And...
	We're going to be talking about Mr. Chertoff.
	We'll also be talking about Mr. Chertoff in the third hour and some of his organized crime connections that Daniel Hopsinger has been exposing.
	But right now we're talking to Elaine Castle.
	She practices law in Virginia in the District of Columbia, teaches law and psychology, and follows the Bush regime's dismantling of the Constitution and civil liberties.
	And she is the author of The War on Civil Liberties, How Bush and Ashcroft Have Dismantled the Bill of Rights.
	She'll be with us for the next...
	22 minutes, roughly.
	And Elaine, it's good to have you on with us.
	Thank you for having me.
	You bet.
	Look, Bill Clinton dismantled a lot of our freedoms.
	George Bush has accelerated it.
	And now we see more and more people across the political spectrum waking up to what's happening and how this attack on our freedoms has nothing to do with terrorism.
	Tell us about your book and what we're facing.
	Well, I guess my book was about, and actually I have to say that at the current rate, my book is starting to look like a bedtime story because it seems rather benign what I was writing about then compared to what's been happening in the past couple of months, but particularly in the past week with Gonzalez and now Chertoff.
	But the way I look at the, quote, declared, quote, war on terrorism is that it was a great power grab, a move that now we see had some of Gonzalez's fingerprints on it right from the start.
	In fact, it was his push that kind of led Ashcroft and Viet Dinh to start
	I'm fashioning the Patriot Act, but I think it was a great power grab, a great opportunity to... Yeah, tell folks what he's been saying in these memos.
	Bush is above the law, we can bury people alive.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, if you read the Gonzalez memos, and really he did not back off of this at the hearing, there is nothing that a president can't do.
	I think the term that he coined was Commander-in-Chief Override, and I really like that term.
	That's called dictatorship.
	Commander-in-Chief Override, meaning if there is a law, and he was even questioned on this, if there is a law that the President, quote, thinks is unconstitutional and doesn't wish to abide by it, then he would go ahead and violate it and wait for the courts to slap him down.
	Now that was what the Attorney General said.
	So he's declaring dictator power.
	Absolutely.
	And then says, wait for the courts to stop me, in effect.
	And the thing that bothers me greatly is that... They control the courts.
	They do control the courts.
	And even when the courts have made decisions contrary to some of their positions... Yeah, six months ago, multiple federal courts said, you can't grab citizens as enemy combatants and strip them of rights.
	And the Justice Department said, we don't care.
	That's correct, and in fact, there are still very few prisoners in Guantanamo who have been able to see the attorneys that the Supreme Court said they could have, and the government is fighting those attorneys in federal court in the District of Columbia at this very time.
	And then two weeks ago, they declared this new thing that we're not even going to have trials.
	The CIA and State Department are going to hold people for life.
	Absolutely, and Gonzales, let me tell you, as I said to someone yesterday, if you think about the fact that
	And he's a real piece of work.
	He's a scary guy.
	Between the two of them, I think that Bush has got it sewed up.
	Between Gonzalez and Chertoff, I think you've got to hand it to Bush, Rove, whoever brought these men on, because there's not going to be any room for us to even squirm.
	Chertoff has said, I mean, he does not support the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
	Well, he says he has some interest, he said, in preserving civil liberties, but that's just bull, that's just talk.
	After the Inspector General of the Justice Department issued his scathing report on the Department of Justice treatment of citizens and illegal aliens after September 11th, he turned off an Ashcroft to appear before the Congress and said, you know what, we'd do it again, you know?
	So, no, he's going to do whatever he wants to.
	The Congress doesn't give a flip, okay?
	He's going to get a quick pass, as Gonzales did.
	And the courts, if the courts ever slap down anything Chertoff does, and here's something important to remember, you know, as the head of Homeland Security, is all those agencies, probably most of what Chertoff is able to accomplish legislatively will be through executive orders.
	In other words, he can just sign off, and it doesn't need to go through legislation.
	Well, that's what they did.
	Bush did an executive order on this thing of,
	Well, our own tribunals aren't working because their own military officers are quitting in droves.
	So he says, okay, I'll just sign an executive order saying we can just arrest whoever we want.
	Well, sure.
	He signed an executive order creating the status of enemy combatant.
	He signs an executive order saying go pick up Jose Padilla and hold him.
	And so those are the things that people never know about.
	You don't know about the executive orders that may suddenly say that you can't get on a subway with an umbrella or something.
	Let me stop you for a second.
	I'm sure you're aware that veterans that call and complain too much, Homeland Security comes and arrests them and says, well, you didn't threaten anybody, but complaining too much could be terrorism.
	I want to go back here.
	Or a woman selling knockoff Rubik's Cubes gets a Homeland Security visit or a
	Absolutely.
	Or a county commissioner getting a $4,000 payoff for more parking spaces gets arrested under it, or a guy pointing a toy laser with his daughter.
	They're using this against citizens across the board.
	Taking a picture of a bridge.
	Don't do that.
	Don't do that.
	Absolutely, and that's the thing, because the definition of terrorism is anything that the government wants it to be at any given time, and so certainly you and I having this conversation could be considered terrorism.
	Well, that's Section 802.
	Yes, the aiding and abetting terrorism.
	Well, I mean, in Section 802 of the First Patriot Act, they say any action that endangers human life is a violation of any federal or state law.
	And another definition is trying to influence a politician.
	Right.
	In fact, and not only that, but in addition to the actual black letter law you're citing, the statute,
	Terrorism is defined differently in many, many regulations, and it is defined most broadly, for instance, in immigration statutes and regulations.
	And so there are hundreds of different definitions of terrorism, depending upon which law and which statute you look under.
	Of course, now states are enacting their own anti-terrorism laws, and they're getting money from the federal government to arrest people for federal terrorism crimes that may mimic state laws.
	So, I mean, they're bringing your state law enforcement agencies on board by giving funding to the state.
	And for our conservative listeners, for our conservative listeners...
	Some of the states are passing Second Amendment violating laws and connecting it to terrorism and then federal charges.
	And then they're also doing all sorts of First Amendment violations.
	Oh my, yes.
	Saying people can't march and demonstrate and trying to connect it to that.
	I mean, this is... It looks to me like they're really trying to set up a dictatorship here.
	I think they've done it.
	You know what I think?
	I think they've done it.
	I think it's too late and it's done.
	And I think that if you look at what's going to happen next week in the inauguration, I think you'll never have seen more of a police state
	Looking like a police state, then you'll see next week.
	They're going to take 400 TSA workers and have them out searching people on the street corners.
	Right.
	Well, you're already going to be stopped.
	I mean, I live just across the river from D.C., and if you get on a subway now that you're going to be, quote, detained, if you, quote, don't make eye contact, if you look around too much, or if you loiter.
	Those are the new behavioral profiles.
	Behavioral profiling.
	So you better read it and figure out how you're going to stand as you're waiting for your subway.
	They're going to be, what, thousands of law enforcement.
	The airplanes are already flying.
	The boats have been banned from the Potomac, so don't get out there in your canoe or they're already warning you that you will be arrested by the Coast Guard.
	Think about Chertoff having in his command 180,000 federal employees, as well as the Coast Guard.
	And that ought to give you some pause.
	I mean, everything that you do virtually has come within some aspect of the Department of Homeland Security.
	It is a huge agency.
	Now, in my film, what, 27 agencies under it?
	Mm-hmm, I guess.
	Under, and then 100 sub ones under that, 100 plus, but...
	But in my film, Police State 3, I have Ashcroft saying, this doesn't affect citizens, phantoms have lost liberty, but if you say it affects citizens, you're aiding terrorists, you will lose your liberty.
	Now that's a quote, we've played that.
	So if you talk about us taking your freedom, you're aiding terrorists, you will lose your liberty.
	Absolutely.
	And then now, it's getting crazier and crazier.
	Oh, well, it is.
	In fact, as I said to someone, too, yesterday, where is Jonathan Swift now that we need him?
	I mean, you can't even write about this administration now except writing the most absurd...
	A satire.
	Because it's absolutely absurd.
	Who would know that you would have the architect of torture as the Attorney General of the United States?
	The rest of the world is appalled.
	I'm on international talk shows and people go, after the Gonzalez hearings, where is your Congress?
	What are they thinking?
	Let's be specific.
	Now you have a man who sweeps people off the streets as the head of security.
	If that doesn't make you worried...
	If that doesn't make you, maybe you're going to talk about his mob connections.
	Right.
	Maybe they're building dumpsters up there in New Jersey right now to put us in.
	Maybe they're building the boxcars to carry us away in.
	Well, again, folks, we're not joking around.
	No, this is serious stuff.
	Tell us a little bit about yourself.
	Well, I'm an attorney, and I practice in Northern Virginia in the District of Columbia, and I got interested in following these stories.
	Merely out of personal interest because I practice in the federal court in Alexandria where this started.
	I mean, you know, Chertoff was involved in the Massawi case early on.
	And I saw the law changing rapidly right in front of my eyes, saw the Congress asleep, see the prosecutors acting like idiots with no discretion, you know, wanting to put people, you know, call them on capital offenses for taking a picture of a bridge.
	And I just got stunned.
	I love the law.
	I love teaching the law.
	And so I started following it.
	And my book is about specific cases and specific issues.
	Isn't this really a revolution they're engaging in?
	Oh, yeah.
	They are overturning the basic canons of what America is.
	Let's specifically talk about Chertoff, but first let's talk about Gonzalez.
	He didn't just say the president is king and above the law and we can torture.
	And then those memos were used for the brutal torture, including the torture of children in front of parents, folks.
	But I want to...
	Get into this.
	He specifically talked about forms of torture.
	I mean, picture him in the White House.
	We could bury people alive.
	In the White House, he was having that conversation, which I find it... Tell folks about the specifics.
	Well, just that they talked about the different things about would this constitute torture, and I don't know.
	I think that who else might have been in the meeting with Addington, who was the attorney for Cheney,
	And maybe Cheney, but he wouldn't say at the hearings actually who was present in fact, but he did take great pains at the hearing, if you recall, to say that President Bush wasn't there, that he didn't talk about the various methods of torture.
	But here's something that's incredible.
	Gonzalez is an attorney.
	And an attorney, no matter who his client is, is bound to uphold the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
	And for an attorney to go to the lengths at which he has gone to validate to his client, the President, that things that the international law and U.S.
	law finds more than objectionable but grossly illegal, to my mind,
	Gonzalez ought to be disciplined as an attorney.
	He ought to lose his law license.
	And the very fact that you have an attorney sitting in as counsel to the president, twisting the law in a way to ensure the president that he could torture people as long as you fall short of, quote, organ failure.
	And then if there's organ failure or death, if you didn't mean to kill the person, right, if you just mean to, what, crush them until they're,
	Well, that's like saying if Joseph Mingle only meant to dissect the children but didn't mean to kill them, Joseph Mingle is not bad.
	Here's the problem.
	What happens after another terror attack?
	They've lined all this up, got it all prepared, and then another, as PNAC said, another helpful terror attack.
	That's their words.
	The gift that keeps on giving, right?
	Yeah, it's just going to expand.
	Well, yeah, and I think that the other thing that was interesting about Gonzalez is that he, in order to be consistent, you see, because he's a clever attorney, he would not even say that if a foreign power tortured American troops that that would be torture.
	That would be a violation of law.
	He said, gee, I really don't know what law that would be a violation of.
	So now we're changing the definition globally, and he knows you can't have a dual definition.
	Yes, that's how clever he is, right.
	I mean, he's no idiot, and neither is Chertoff.
	Because if we define torture by somebody else, then it can be used here.
	Stay there.
	We've got to get you back on.
	One more segment with you.
	We'll be right back with this incredible author.
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	I think?
	The Genesis Communications Radio Network proudly presents the Alex Jones Show.
	Because there's a war on for your mind.
	We're talking to Elaine Castle.
	She wrote the powerful book, The War on Civil Liberties.
	How Bush and Ashcroft have dismantled the Bill of Rights.
	It's all accelerated now.
	They passed the National ID Card, passed Much of Patriot Act II, passed the New Freedom Initiative, forced psychological testing of all school children.
	I mean, this is hell on earth.
	We've got about three or four minutes left, Elaine.
	Any other key points you want to bring up for the listeners?
	Well, I think just about Chertoff is that he, between the combination of him and Gonzalez, I think that they can do anything within or without the law to accomplish the objectives of George Bush.
	I think both of them are brilliant attorneys, and you saw how well Gonzalez could twist the law.
	And Chertoff, who has a, as he said, a spit-on-the-sidewalk approach to justice.
	In other words, you look funny and we're going to sweep you up.
	He is the architect of the concept of preventive arrest.
	Which was used not only right after September 11th, but it's still being employed.
	We see you taking a picture of a bridge.
	You might be a terrorist.
	You've got a funny last name.
	Here you go.
	And by the way, they're just setting a precedent with all this.
	Cherkoff's real federal funding to local police departments, I want to warn people, is to go after conservatives, liberal activists, gun owners, homeschoolers.
	Everybody is at risk who is not them.
	And by them, I mean in a position of power.
	So I don't care where you stand ideologically.
	You are at risk if you're one of the people.
	I mean, these people want unbridled imperial power.
	If you just pay attention to the inauguration next week, I don't know when you... There's never been anything like this coming in the United States.
	There's never been an inauguration where the people have been kept out.
	You know, as we're sitting here on the eve of Martin Luther King's birthday, there couldn't have been any demonstrations for civil rights under the Bush administration.
	There won't be any.
	I mean, when you just think about that.
	Well, we have people being convicted of felonies for standing in a group of 500 Bush supporters on a public sidewalk with a sign saying, no blood for oil.
	Arrested.
	Oh, sure.
	How about the T-shirt of the mother whose son was killed in Iraq, and she dared to show up at a tea where Laura Bush was with a T-shirt.
	She was arrested.
	So, you know, bumper stickers, holding up a placard.
	Well, it's clear they want to have a chilling effect.
	The answer is to come out of the woodwork and expose this police state and not be cowed by it.
	Well, and also the fact that no one is... I mean, it's out there and it's not being criticized.
	And so if people...
	Are just almost accepting like, oh, well, that's the way it is, right?
	Well, three years later, they haven't had one conviction of any of these so-called terrorists they've grabbed.
	They've been a joke.
	I mean, no, and all of those, listen, it's important to remember that all of the trials that I write about in my book were started under Chertoff.
	Chertoff became a judge in 2003, but between 2001 and 2003, he instituted, instigated these, you know, so-called, you know, bringing terrorists to justice, and virtually none of them have resulted in a conviction.
	Why do you think they tried to have Carrick first?
	Well, I think they probably would have preferred Carrick because, to my mind, I guess Carrick was such a, people said Bush liked him because he was like such a macho type, you know, and, you know, even his
	Even his shady personal life seemed to be something that Bush thought was kind of cool because it was kind of in your face.
	We know George Bush doesn't care about appearances or propriety or anything.
	So I think that they probably really did want Carrick.
	Certainly with Chertoff, I think it was a brilliant move.
	Well, I've known for years that Chertoff really runs things.
	Well, yeah.
	So now they're having to take the Chief Gremlin from behind the scenes and put him out front.
	Well, people say he wants to be Attorney General, that he wants to be on the Supreme Court.
	He's absolutely doing this for his own political reasons.
	It couldn't be something that he would actually probably want to do.
	Ma'am, you're incredibly informed.
	It's refreshing to talk to somebody who's so aware.
	I hope people get your book, and I want to get you back up for a full hour in the near future.
	I'd be happy to come back.
	All right, well, God bless you.
	Do you think we'll be able to turn this around, or is it just dictatorship from here on out?
	I don't know how.
	I mean, if you can get out on the streets, I'm sure you're going to be arrested, but I think we better start having efforts of mass demonstration.
	Well, PNAC said they needed terror attacks to do this to us.
	You've got to look at the motive.
	Who gets power from the terror?
	Well, it's not you and me.
	Yeah, so who's behind the terror?
	Who makes the money from these alleged terrorist threats, huh?
	Bernie Kerik and Tasers, right?
	Yep.
	And Giuliani.
	God bless you.
	Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	Boy, we had an amazing interview last hour with Ellen Castle, practices law and teaches law in D.C.
	She said, martial law, folks, total dictatorship, that's what Chertoff and Viadin and Ashcroft and Gonzalez, that's what they're setting up.
	Has nothing to do with terrorism.
	The end of the Bill of Rights, the end of America, saying they're absolute dictators.
	Openly saying it.
	We are the law.
	We are above the law.
	We can take your rights.
	We can arrest you for no reason.
	We can torture you.
	Until death.
	Up until death.
	And if you die, it's not our fault.
	Federally funded checkpoints everywhere.
	Trade deficit exploding.
	Our debt exploding.
	Our freedoms disappearing.
	Face scanning and license plate scanning.
	Cameras going up everywhere.
	Police command centers that track and trace all your cell phones in real time and can listen to your audio, even when your phone's off, using them as bugs.
	This is all mainstream news, all in your face, but the borders are wide open.
	Steve in Ohio, you're on the air.
	Go ahead, Steve.
	Great show, Alex.
	Alex, I don't mean to change the subject, but you know how you're always fighting this campaign against Arnold Schwarzenegger?
	Yes.
	Well, remember in, I don't know if you remember, in December of last year, 2004, just a month ago, he was addressing a group of women and children, and he made a very nasty comment.
	It was on Lou Dobbs, and I have the audio queued up.
	Do you want to hear it?
	Will you mail it to me?
	Yeah, sure.
	Do you want to hear it now?
	Yeah, go ahead.
	Okay, hold on.
	We'll take about 30 seconds.
	Add another to the list of offhand remarks from Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
	This one made at the opening of the California Governor's Conference on Women and Children, when several nurses protested the governor's health care policies.
	The nurses were promptly escorted out of the Schwarzenegger event.
	And what Schwarzenegger did next has sparked outrage.
	Pay no attention to those voices over there, by the way.
	This is a special interest, if you know what I mean, okay?
	The special interest just don't like me in Sacramento, because I'm always kicking their butt.
	That's why they don't like me.
	I'm sure that you're at it with a laugh.
	Okay, you got it?
	Now, yeah, maybe I'm dense, but what was the last thing you said?
	He said, he goes, something about, I don't like the special interest because I'm always kicking their butt.
	What it was was a group of women protesters that were protesting against his health care policies for the state of California, and then they escorted them out of there, and he was real egotistical and arrogant.
	I already have this already copied for you if you want me to send it to you.
	Yeah, well, I mean, Schwarzenegger just ten years ago used to blow up and start screaming and cussing at press conferences.
	I mean, he's a nut.
	Right, well, I mean, they're saying that he was, there was something else on this clip, I don't want to play it, but it's just saying that basically the women group was not real happy with him.
	He's definitely not a lover of peace and civil rights, that's for sure.
	Well, I wonder why they had him kicked out of the meeting.
	Well, I don't know.
	They didn't have him kicked out.
	This wasn't a meeting.
	He wasn't kicked out of it.
	They kicked these women out.
	No, the women.
	I understand.
	I'm saying, why did they have him kicked out?
	I don't know.
	You'll have to see the clip because I don't want to explain it on there, but it was on Lou Dobbs' business report.
	And also, one other thing I want to tell you, that clip that I'm going to be sending you from Meet the Press, there was nothing mentioned about Arnold Schwarzenegger being president.
	Maybe that was from some other newspaper.
	Yeah, that was the caller saying that.
	Yeah, I don't think it was on that one, but they mentioned Jack Kemp, or not Jack Kemp, but Newt Gingrich running for president, possibly.
	Oh, boy.
	Yeah, so anyways, it's a very good clip, but they do talk about the Armstrong-Williams thing in detail, and you appreciate that, but I just want to say keep up the good work, Alex.
	All right, thank you for the call.
	Very interesting.
	Arnold Schwarzenegger is a monster, folks, and that's why we have ArnoldExposed.com.
	Coming up is Pat Shannon, American Free Press.
	We knew the BATF was doing drills where they were blowing up rider trucks full of ammonium nitrate out in the desert.
	But now we have actual documents and more details that Pat Shannon has broken.
	This is coming up.
	Believe me.
	This is so important when we're talking about government-sponsored terrorism.
	By the way, a lot of new stuff posted at PrisonPlanet.com.
	Alex Jones here announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.
	Police State 3 details the architecture, goals, and operations of the New World Order.
	There is a chance to use this disaster for the New World Order.
	The New World Order.
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	The film documents dozens of confirmed cases of government-sponsored terrorism worldwide.
	We rip the Sinister Patriot Act legislation one and two apart, piece by piece, and reveal the arrogance of what Ashcroft has to say about your liberty.
	You will lose your liberty.
	Homeland Security, executive orders, forced vaccinations, the new prison economy, the Total Information Society, the Pan-American Union, federal gun grabs, government-run white slavery rings, and much, much more.
	If you want to understand what the new world order really is, then my new two-and-a-half-hour video, Police State 3, is for you.
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	Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	Monday through Friday from 11 a.m.
	until 2 p.m.
	Central Standard Time, back from 9 to midnight.
	Central Time, blasting out on the AM and FM dial from California to upstate New York.
	Sobblecasting on Global Shortwave during the day at 9.985 on WWCR, the big blowtorch.
	And at night at 3210, also on WWCR, the 100,000 watt blowtorch.
	And the internet at infowars.com and prisonplanet.com.
	We had a guest on the last hour talking about the nightmare developments of Chertoff and Gonzalez saying Bush is above the law and discussing how they can torture people right up until death.
	And then even if they die, it's not torture.
	This is in the memos.
	This is public.
	And I know we haven't gotten to a lot of your calls.
	We'll try to later in this hour.
	We just got a lot of guests coming on today.
	OKC bombshell implicates feds in Murrah blast.
	Now, again...
	They even had a little Discovery Channel piece many years ago where they mentioned that the BATF had done tests blowing up rider trucks, but didn't say that it was right before the April 19, 1995 bombing, or that the guy that ran the program was there on the ground in Oklahoma City.
	Or that he's the guy that called the media and said it's AMFO within 10 minutes of the blast taking place.
	And I've interviewed police officers that investigated it.
	You know, I put it in my film.
	I've covered it.
	It's been out there.
	But now more documents, more revelations have come out on this.
	Also, one of the chief FBI officers over the terrorism team had claimed he was in Dallas and drove, because of bad weather, didn't fly, to Oklahoma City minutes after he heard of the bombing.
	Well, it came out a few years ago, and this is in Road to Tyranny.
	We're good to go.
	Two minutes after the blast, the BATF was in full bomb gear.
	They showed up.
	They said, we were told not to come into work today.
	The judges were told not to come into work that day.
	This is police and firemen and FBI.
	This is on the record.
	And then the feds have all these surveillance camera tapes and don't try to use them in the trial against Nichols and McVeigh, even though police that have seen those tapes say it shows other bombers.
	So the feds were told this was a drill.
	They always cover up... When Putin's FSB in 99 got caught planting bombs in a fourth building, they'd already blown up three apartment buildings, Moscow police were good guys.
	They set up a sting operation.
	They caught FSB, the new name of the KGB at the time.
	Planning hexogen bombs on the pillars.
	They busted them, had the hexogen.
	Putin sent in armed people, made them turn them loose.
	Arrested police that had reported it.
	FSB members have now gone public about it.
	They claimed it was a drill when they got caught.
	9-11, they were doing drills of hijacked jets flying into the World Trade Center Pentagon and 15 other sites around the country.
	That way NORAD thought it was a drill until it really became real.
	They always do this in case they get caught.
	So let me read part of what Pat Shannon's written, then we'll go to the man himself who's on the road.
	We appreciate him joining us.
	After nearly a decade, shocking suppressed evidence emerges.
	Only moments after an enormous blast blew away most of the facade and a full quarter of the eastern end of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, the FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, BATF,
	We're good to go.
	I think?
	As convicted by the courts, mixed up a large batch of ammonium nitrate fuel, or ANFO, a mild explosive used by farmers to blow up stumps and demolish several square blocks of downtown Oklahoma City with a devastating blast that could be heard miles away.
	In reality, the ANFO story was born ten minutes after the blast when a high-ranking BATF official by the name of Harry Everhart witnessed the blast from nearby and called the BATF office in Dallas to...
	Excitedly announced, someone has just blown up the federal building in Oklahoma City with a truckload of ANFO.
	Some reporters and investigators who have looked objectively at the bombing...
	Now argue that neither Everhart or anyone else could have correctly deduced in such a short time exactly what caused the explosion.
	According to government documents released later, Everhart was experienced in loading large amounts of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in a vehicle for use as a terrorist truck bomb, and his presence in the midst of the second worst terrorist attack in U.S.
	history looms suspicious to this day.
	Long time.
	How are you, Alex?
	Absolutely.
	I want to get you back up about your book here in the near future, which I've excitedly been reading.
	People can read your article at Infowars.com or link through to American Free Press.
	Give us the rest of the details.
	Well, you know, it's very, very suspicious this guy Everhart, as you just mentioned, would be on the scene.
	You see, he had gone to Congress, our ATF had,
	The year before, and it acquired a million bucks or so to go do this ANFO testing out of fear, in quotes we put that, of some ammonium nitrate fuel oil terrorist attacks in America.
	Yet research shows there had not been one since 1970.
	And that was at Madison, Wisconsin, the anti-war protest explosion in University.
	Which has been linked back to Dick Nixon.
	All right.
	I would just add that caveat.
	Go ahead.
	I should add, parenthetically, that contrary to the news reports, the first World Trade Center bombing in February 1993 was composed of urea nitrate and was not anvil, according to the FBI.
	And the FBI paid Ahmad Salam to cook the bomb and gave him the detonators and let it go forward.
	Under the pretense that it would be talcum powder or something else that wouldn't explode.
	That's right.
	Please continue, though, with the current bombing we're discussing.
	Well, as you mentioned, this is really not hot news, but it has been very suppressed news.
	We released this at Media Bypass back in about 1997.
	But just as the tapes from across the street were confiscated by the FBI, everything, when we go into investigating this thing deeply, everything points back to some agency of the government.
	The FBI was so active in the cover-up, they didn't want to know anything else except what pertained.
	To McVeigh and Nichols.
	Well, but back to Harry Everhart, he's the chief in charge of this ATF operation, and indeed they do go to New Mexico, and in late 94 and early 95, they were blowing up cars out there in the New Mexico desert and testing ammonium nitrate fuel oil.
	Now, you know, what are the odds of the same man who had gone to Washington to get the funding for these experiments should be standing on the street in Oklahoma City at the moment that at that time the largest so-called terrorist attack in America takes place?
	And what are the odds that the former head of the FBI hostage rescue team and one of the high-level officers would be there the night before and would light a Newsweek and say that he got there the day of the event that he drove there?
	Well, that's right, and as you mentioned, the motel receipts hung him.
	Let's go over that a little bit.
	That wasn't my story.
	That was broken by J.D.
	Cash a couple of years ago, and he had the details on that, but I remember it well, and that the motel computer had the guy, what's his name, I forget,
	I'm slipping off my tongue right now.
	That's why I was going to you.
	Yeah, okay.
	It'll pop in my head when I'm not on air.
	And here are the motel receipts, and the computer showed that he was plainly there on the morning of the 19th, checking in after midnight on the 18th, and was there all day.
	So they can lie all they want, but some things, like photographs and computers, they can't get past.
	Now, again, what are the chances, though, of...
	This gentleman, Harry Everhart, who ran this operation of testing these fuel oil bombs in vehicles, and who's going to Congress to get money, now he just so happens to be there.
	He's the guy that calls in the official story.
	Right.
	And, of course, he made it official because we later proved, and on our Dr. Vicker video documentary, we showed that it was impossible that ammonium nitrate fuel oil even went off there.
	And there are two blatant reasons, physically.
	One is that flames always accompany an anvil explosion, and there were none inside the Murrow building.
	If you look at the videos today, you'll see that the only flames and smoke are coming from the cars in the parking lot across the street of the General Record building.
	And also, nitrate gas is always in the area, and without a gas mask, it's not safe to go in the area for up to an hour.
	And this is Project Dipole Might, where they practice blowing up cars, van trucks, and a classified U.S.
	program, and now new files and documents obtained by the Department of the Treasury through the Freedom of Information Act request the U.S.
	government initiated a comprehensive ANFO and C4 bomb testing program
	I mean, this is ridiculous.
	We've got these high-level officers from FBI and BATF.
	They're on the ground, but they don't want us to see the videotapes.
	And we have police saying that the BATF was there two minutes after the bomb, saying, oh, we were told not to come into work today.
	The whole thing has been a giant cover-up from three minutes after nine that morning.
	Excuse me.
	But...
	Those two reporters, one was named Herbeck, I don't even like to quote the name of their book on the air anymore because it's just such a fraud.
	I think it was fed to them by probably CIA or NSA or someone else out of Washington, D.C., fed them all this information.
	I doubt seriously if they ever talked to Tim McVeigh more than 15 minutes, if at all.
	They claimed they talked to him while he was on death row for 75 hours.
	We'll be right back.
	Stay with us.
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	Hello, folks.
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	All right, folks.
	The headline of the individual was Danny Coulson, high-level FBI chief.
	Headline, early arrival in Oklahoma.
	Now, again, he told Newsweek and Time and everybody that why...
	He heard news of the bombing and there was bad weather in Dallas, so he couldn't catch a plane that was like an hour flight, even though they went and checked the records and it showed that the flights were all flying, everything was fine, there was no wait.
	He didn't buy the $55, $60 ticket for the less than an hour flight to Oklahoma City from DFW or Love Field.
	He told Newsweek and Time, I drove and got there that afternoon.
	I drove at speeds of 90 miles an hour.
	Oh, turns out you checked into the hotel with your signature and everything.
	Nine hours before the bombing, at least.
	And it's admitted, though, from the government's own documents, records indicate that this ANFO explosives expert and his associates had destroyed at least eight vehicles in test bombing experiments at a secret range in the New Mexico desert 12 months prior to the OKC bombing, and that individual was Harry Eberhard, and he'd been with some of the high-level White House organizations dealing with anti-terrorism, the National Response Team, NRT,
	Assigned to the National Security Council staff.
	Funny, it was National Security Staff that did the drill on 9-11 of flying hijacked jets into buildings.
	Did you know that, Pat Shannon?
	I had read that, and we find it quite perplexing that they would want to fund this ten years ago.
	Well, the National Security Council staff, man, they're just... They just are always running the exact same drill at the exact same place as it happens!
	Well, they're psychic, aren't they?
	I've read articles about these guys.
	Wow, they are maybe psychic.
	Please continue.
	Well, I was speaking about the two authors of the book about McVeigh, the information in there.
	We are convinced it did not come from McVeigh, or very little of it would have, and they just had him confessing to everything that the government would want him to say.
	So take the full load before they so-called execute him.
	Well, I just don't buy it.
	And these two authors claim they spent 75 hours on the telephone with McVeigh while he was on death row.
	That's a very dubious statement.
	You know, it's difficult for anyone just in the federal penitentiary to get on the phone for more than 15 minutes.
	Well, you can look at video of McVeigh.
	He was drugged out of his gourd, and he also had a special doctor attending to him.
	Well, you mean on the execution day?
	Even before that, he had a special psychologist helping him.
	Oh, yeah, that was the old MKUltra boy from California.
	Yeah, a guy who came up in congressional hearings, Jolly and West.
	Yeah, Jolly West.
	Well, anyhow, I maintain that these guys hardly ever, if ever, talked to McVeigh.
	They were fed this information from out of Washington, D.C., and they wrote the book as they were told to write it to implicate McVeigh and Nichols and no one else.
	But, I mean, for police out there listening, Pat, detectives, whoever, or people that have two brain cells, come on, you're not going to have all these top anti-terrorism guys and the guy that's practicing blowing up trucks full of ammonium nitrate on the ground right when it happens.
	I mean, number one, that's impossible if they're not involved, obviously.
	And then number two, the police say they ran up to them and said, yeah, we were told not to come into work today.
	Well, you know, since I wrote the article even just a week ago, I have uncovered a...
	Well, I'd uncovered him, but I now have an appointment with a former CIA operative who was a contract man within the Secret Service, ATF, and FBI doing various jobs.
	You know, just to remind your listeners, and I'm sure you're well aware, CIA was never supposed to do anything domestically since they were formed in 1947.
	Strictly international espionage.
	National Security Act.
	Well, they got around that by not ever sending any of their actual employees or agents in, but they would use contract men to infiltrate.
	Yes.
	This man infiltrated the Ku Klux Klan in the late 80s and actually became Tim Tuttle's, Tim McVeigh's shadow.
	At that time and met with him at gun shows and elsewhere and was able to tell us a whole lot of information about Insight with McVeigh.
	But one of the most shocking things that he's told us that we're still checking out is that Oklahoma City was not the only target and Little Rock, Arkansas indeed was a target up until the final day.
	And that was one that I think they chose because McVeigh wanted to get a particular building.
	McVeigh was involved.
	Let's not dodge that part.
	But he was very much a patsy and was being used the whole time.
	Well, yeah, they take a guy, they sheet dip him, and then he goes into intelligence, and then they hang him out to dry, shoot him up with the drugs after they grab him.
	That's the end of the story.
	That's right, just like an Oswald.
	Are the two Oswalds.
	Yeah, and they could have done even more, I guess, out in the open.
	Maybe held him up in front of somebody dying of cancer and had the guy walk up and shoot him.
	Yeah.
	But nevertheless, we're still going to check out some of the veracity of this Little Rock story.
	But it's shocking in that this man has told us on the record, on tape, that...
	There were literally hundreds of people and a dozen federal agencies who knew very well that the bombing was coming down in Oklahoma on April 19, 1995.
	We'll be right back.
	We're on the march.
	The empire's on the run.
	Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
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	We could talk about this for 10 hours, my friends.
	We're going to go over some more of the evidence and then take your calls at 1-800-259-9231.
	If you want to find out what really happened in Oklahoma City, my friends, there's a lot of great sources of information out there.
	But my film, 9-11, The Road to Tyranny, for those of you that haven't seen it, goes into Nero burning Rome to blame it on the Christians.
	Now it's admitted that the...
	Seeking of the Maine, to blame it on the Spanish for the Spanish-American War with William McKinley's Navy.
	Then we go into Pearl Harbor with prior knowledge.
	Then we go into Operation Northwoods, the official U.S.
	government plan where they wanted to bomb buildings and hijack jets and fly them into things to blame it on foreign enemies.
	This is the official U.S.
	government plan that got green-lighted as an operation until Kennedy said no to the plan.
	Then we go into the First World Trade Center bombing where the FBI cooked the bomb and trained the drivers.
	Submit it.
	Then we go into Oklahoma City for about 40 minutes of the two and a half hour on...
	Two and a half hour film on VHS, almost three hour film on DVD.
	And then we spent another 35 minutes on 9-11, showing how that was an inside job.
	Then we get into the police state, why they want these terrorist attacks.
	So that's why the film is so powerful, is it covers a brief history of world terrorism.
	It gets into Putin blowing up his own buildings.
	It spends a few minutes on that.
	It just covers so much.
	Masters of Terror...
	Is about 70% just on 9-11.
	We spend an hour and a half on 9-11 and then 30 minutes on some other government-sponsored terror events.
	Just bam, bam, bam, going through dozens of them.
	That film's a little over two hours long.
	They're both $25.95 apiece, but if you order three or more of any
	...of my 11 films.
	They dropped down to $20 apiece.
	That's an $18 discount.
	But right now, you can get Road to Tyranny, the DVD, again, 170 minutes long, for $24.95, each additional copy $5.95, so you can get four or five extra copies and give them as gifts.
	Take advantage of this.
	Go to infowars.com or prisonplanet.com.
	Order via the safe, secure online shopping cart.
	Or call toll-free to get the films.
	Don't wait.
	Expose these murderers.
	1-888-253-3139.
	Frankly, I put my life on the line to expose this along with a lot of other great people.
	And at least you can do, folks, and help us get it out to folks.
	Get my videos, make copies of them.
	I don't care.
	1-888-253-3139.
	Or write to me, Alex Jones, at 3001 South Lamar, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
	Or if you want instant access to all of my films, dozens of other films, my weekly TV reports...
	All of it, it's on prisonplanet.tv, 15 cents a day.
	There's like five new videos that are going up this week.
	Three of them have already gone up.
	We've got just so much there.
	Mr. Hop Singer's video, Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, that just went up.
	My interview with Dean Hagelin of the X-Files about why they made that episode for the Lone Gunman, about a
	Remote-controlled jet to be flown to the World Trade Center by the government to create martial law.
	He thinks the CIA may have planted that on them.
	Oh yeah, that's the type of stuff that is on PrisonPlanet.tv.
	Before we get back into your incredible article that does bring in a lot of new information and puts it all together with the older information, tell us about American Free Press and tell us about your book and tell us about the incredible work you've done, Pat Shannon.
	Well, most of that can be found at my website, patshannon.com, and just remember that there are no O's in my Shannon, all A's.
	Alex, the only time I ever made all A's in my life.
	But yeah, it's www.patshannon.com.
	And also, incidentally, on there, near the top of that site, the first page are the evidence from NBC's own clips.
	We're good to go.
	Van Romero, the infamous professor from New Mexico, I mean, he definitely was an expert, an engineer out there, who came out the same afternoon, you will remember, who said it looks like a demolition because that's exactly what it was.
	Well, Pat, I had an engineer family friend, Jimmy Wright,
	Who lives in Fredericksburg, but also lives in New York and Houston.
	Very prominent, and he's there in the World Financial Center.
	He was on my show an hour after the buildings fell that morning, and he said, first hour, he said, the most beautiful controlled demolition I've ever seen.
	No, it really was.
	And then Building 7 wasn't even hit by a jet aircraft, and if you've been at Ground Zero, it's way far away from other buildings that Silverstein didn't own, but it catches on fire and falls, and we got the firefighters telling AP reporters, get back, we're about to demolish it, then Silverstein comes out and says, we demolished it!
	Yeah, one year later, he admitted it on PBR.
	I mean, this is, I mean, folks, look, look, for people that are listening to us, Oklahoma City, you got the head FBI people there on the ground, and then lying about it.
	We've got, admittedly,
	This head BATF bombing expert, who did seven different truck bombs out in the desert, and car bombs, he's there on the ground, and BATF runs up to cops, and the cops go, what are you doing in full bomb gear?
	Two minutes after, they go, oh, we were here, we were told to get out of the building.
	Now, and that was lower-level BATF that obviously wasn't involved, and was, again, full, it was part of a sting.
	And they always use these drills as a cover, but Pat, give us a phone number or information, how we get your books.
	Well, as I say, the best way is just go to the website at www.patshannon.com.
	My new book that's just out in the last few months is called Maybe the People Have the Answers.
	It's a history lesson.
	I cover a whole lot of things.
	Chapter 7, the final chapter, is all about the Trade Center deception.
	But there's a whole lot since the war of federal intervention in 1861 of how we've been deceived by the federales and by government.
	Many of the things, of course, with the captured news media, without people like you spreading the word, we don't have a free press in America anymore, and that's very, very difficult for most Americans to admit.
	All right, let's go over some of your articles here.
	Again, we've got this chief BATF guy, expert in truck bombs, gets a million dollars from Congress to test bombs.
	He's there on the ground.
	It goes, contrary to media reports, the World Trade Center bomb of February 1993 was composed of urea nitrate, not ANFO, according to the FBI.
	It continues...
	Despite only one known case in almost 25 years, why didn't Clinton's NSC, National Security Council, they just keep being involved every time, anticipate a need for detailed information regarding ANFO vehicle bomb attacks a few months prior to Oklahoma City blast?
	Treasury's own official documents reveal the intensity of interest.
	In fact, a brief summary of Project Dipolemite is featured in the BATF's 94 annual report to Congress.
	There were enough clandestine characters hanging around Oklahoma City to fill a James Bond movie during the days prior to the crime.
	BATF's paid informant, Carol Howell, had provided information that the Murrow Building was one of the potential targets.
	On April 6th, Kerry Gagan gave U.S.
	Marshals in Denver the information that a federal building would be blown up
	Either in Denver or Oklahoma City within two weeks.
	He had not only personally delivered timers and blasting caps to a Middle Eastern group, but had sat in on a meeting where the blueprints of the Murrow Building were on display.
	Now again, these are these Iraqis, trained in the 80s as Republican Guard by our military, brought in by George Bush Sr.
	and Clinton, that's Washington Times, L.A.
	Times, in 92 and 93.
	Brought into the U.S.
	They're the go-betweens.
	McVeigh's with them.
	They carry out the bombing.
	Police arrest them.
	They're ordered by Clinton to release them.
	They leave the country.
	They're caught with bomb-making materials and blue jogging suits in their bags as they fly out of the country.
	So again, the government likes to use these contractors, these go-between individuals.
	Then 38 minutes before the blast on April 19th, the Department of Justice in Washington received an anonymous telephone call warning that the Murrow Building was about to be blown up, but took no action.
	And it goes on and on and on.
	Please continue, Pat Shannon.
	Well, that Cary Gagan is a very interesting character.
	I've met with him and talked about him many, many times, many interviews.
	He's back in jail now for some trumped-up charges.
	We're not exactly sure what it is.
	He's in Colorado, but it was to silence him.
	We are certain of that.
	Hoppy Heidelberg and an Oklahoma City...
	The investigative committee a few years ago got Kerry Gagan into Oklahoma City and put him on video.
	And that was the grand juror?
	Hoppy Heidelberg was the grand juror who was removed back in 1995.
	That's correct.
	And he has since formed his own investigation committee because he was intrigued by the whole thing.
	I can tell you that Hoppy Heidelberg knows as much about the deception of this case as anybody in the world.
	And he and I are very close, and we talk often about it.
	And he first introduced me to Kerry Gagan when they finally tracked him down.
	But Gagan has a most intriguing story to tell, and I'm not going to take up a lot of time this morning talking about it.
	Once again, they can pull up my Oklahoma City section on the website and read the articles, the lengthy articles we wrote about him.
	But he actually played both ends against the middle.
	He was offered...
	A quarter million dollars by the terrorists to go into Mexico and meet with some European terrorists and pick up some timers and detonators and get them back across the line into the States.
	The reason they wanted to use him is he was an experienced drug trafficker.
	He admits that.
	He says he was no choir boy.
	But he did successfully get back across the border with them and he delivered them and he collected his quarter million.
	Then he discovered, as an old jailhouse lawyer, that the feds were willing to pay...
	Up to a $2 million reward for any citizen who would stop a terrorist attack.
	So Gagan, being an astute businessman, went to the other side.
	He went to the U.S.
	Marshals Service in Denver, where he lived, and he told them what was going on and could he keep the quarter million.
	And they said, absolutely, no problem there, just keep talking with us.
	But to protect himself, he was smart enough to get written
	Permission from the U.S.
	He actually got a letter absolving him of any crimes.
	Attorney.
	This mysteriously disappeared later, by the way, after Stephen Jones became McVeigh's attorney.
	And Jones apparently has deep-sixed this letter, but we do have the copies and the evidence of it.
	Well, one thing led to another, and Gagan was right up in the midst of this thing, and he was reporting, and as I mentioned, that April 6th report he gave to Marshalls was only the final one of many.
	All right, let me recap this.
	They just ignored them.
	Let me recap this for folks that just joined us.
	We have this head BATF bomb expert who's got congressional funding from the National Security Council, the same people that always run a drill of the exact same thing happening in real time at the very place it's happening.
	That way if they get caught doing their work, it's just part of the drill.
	This guy...
	Well, I can't imagine there being any cops on the job that haven't already figured it out.
	They would have to be awfully naive.
	Well, maybe this truck bombing expert just happened to be there.
	I mean, maybe the BATF just happened to get a warning to get out of the building.
	I mean, just maybe, you know, maybe pigs fly, Pat.
	Well, who would warn them?
	Don't forget, the government's cover story is that they were the target.
	McVeigh was targeting them, remember?
	Of course, nobody warned the daycare center.
	That's right.
	Why would you warn your target?
	It's ridiculous.
	Now, incidentally, backtracking a second, you mentioned the first Trade Center bombing in 1993.
	Do you remember the date of that?
	Offhand?
	I'll tell you.
	It was Friday, February 26th.
	Yes.
	Two days before the hit at Waco.
	Now, I don't have any answers to this, but I've always been perplexed.
	Was one of those intended to be a cover-up for the other?
	Well, that's what I've heard, yes.
	A smokescreen?
	Yes.
	I think Waco was clearly the smokescreen.
	And then again, we have our friends the BATF setting that up as well.
	Uh-huh.
	It's always bothered me.
	I don't know.
	Well, tyranny is when criminals take control of the government.
	And now these criminals have these fancy space HPR firms, and now they're getting rid of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution.
	They're dismantling this country, Pat.
	Everything we warn people about, I have this professor and top lawyer out of D.C.
	on in the last hour, and she said, we are in a dictatorship.
	This is a mainstream person.
	She says they're taking over.
	I don't think there's much doubt.
	One of your guests last year, Don DeGranbray, talked about that.
	Of course, he had like 30 years' experience from the Pentagon.
	Let's take a call.
	Let's talk to Fred.
	Fred, where are you calling us from?
	I'm calling from Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty.
	Welcome.
	Okay.
	Pat, I wanted to ask you, or Alex, talk about the video that was leaked from either a police intelligence or a law enforcement person to a reporter in the
	In the Midwest area and was later seized in a raid on the reporter's house where I do not believe he was ever charged.
	Yeah, no, that was a videotape of the truck bomb going off of McVeigh with a Middle Easterner.
	He had it and then that was grabbed.
	Pat, I remember that report.
	That was mainstream news about a year ago, the Associated Press, but I don't remember the name of the reporter.
	I thought perhaps he was speaking of the sheriff's office video that showed the removal of the unexploded bombs.
	No, I think Richardson might be the name of the reporter.
	I'm not sure.
	Well, that's the problem.
	It's an orgy of evidence.
	We cover this stuff every day.
	It was the subject of a lawsuit.
	The gentleman wanted to...
	There's another party that wanted to get a hold of that as a piece of evidence, another media person.
	Well, I've had the lawyers on who've done two lawsuits.
	One of the lawyers knew about Oklahoma before it even happened, and they've been suing for years, and they declared national security on the surveillance camera tapes of OKC.
	But doesn't this, just basically the substance of that video, isn't there a...
	Isn't there a lot of evidence in one or more videos of a large horizontal flame or fire at the base of the building right before the blast?
	Well, again, all I know from the AP article a year ago, and thanks for the call, was that, just type in the headline, reporters home raided, OKC tape confiscated, that should pop up for you.
	And we never really heard what happened.
	They just said that he did indeed have this video.
	Pat?
	Well, there's another evidence of the ongoing cover-up, Alex, because the case is over.
	All the guys are convicted.
	There's no reason for them to suppress this evidence anymore.
	Period.
	Except it shows our friends.
	Except to protect their own.
	That's correct.
	Yes.
	John in Oklahoma, you're on the air.
	Go ahead.
	Hey, Alex.
	I have a question.
	I've never heard this brought up by one person in my whole life, and it was my stepfather.
	He was the superintendent of mines.
	Amex Mines in Missouri.
	And he knew a lot about mining.
	He was a very smart man.
	And he made the comment, and it stuck with me forever.
	He was in the kitchen watching this thing when it happened.
	He said, that's the most disastrous thing I've ever heard of, John.
	You cannot, on your knife, try to blow and explode and let your packet way back in a hole and drop.
	Just blow it.
	It just burns.
	You have to really, really, really contain it to get it to explode.
	So they can't be used like that.
	The only useful purpose of it is to pack it back and rock.
	Well, they pack it in barrels, and it does work in trucks.
	The problem is it's very unstable and blows up usually on your way there.
	And on top of it, top generals, experts have looked at this.
	The blast signature was the building blown out across the street.
	Right.
	Pat?
	Well, as part of the article, and the future articles will contain, concerning the cover-up, even the new museum, which is just a farce.
	Yeah, stay there, John.
	Let's talk about that after this break.
	Stay there, Pat.
	Infowars.com, PrisonPlanet.tv.
	And don't forget, PatShannon.com will be right back.
	Hey folks, Alex Jones here.
	And the behavior of our police is a reflection of our government.
	One look in the mirror and we know our country is entering a high-tech police state.
	Here's just a sample from my documentary film, Police State 2, The Takeover.
	In downtown Seattle today, the First Amendment ended.
	A civil emergency was created by the police.
	The medical bills are going to be enormous for me.
	You see them here with their hands cupped behind their backs.
	They are being led into the Sandpoint Brig.
	The neighbors in that area of Sandpoint Naval Air Station were shocked to hear that the old brig was being reopened.
	We're good to go.
	We're good to go.
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	We have a moral responsibility, but it's even more than that.
	It's about survival, to expose who's behind terrorism.
	You know, Hitler firebombs his own Capitol building to declare martial law.
	Putin blows up buildings to blame it on his enemies and take people's freedoms.
	Our government does it.
	We have official government plans, like Operation Northwoods, where they explain why they want to do this.
	And then you look at the facts.
	In every one of these big events, the feds are all over it.
	And it's very, very serious.
	John in Oklahoma, you're talking about ammonium nitrate.
	Actually, that's covered in my film.
	That's covered in Pat's film.
	That's been covered.
	Columns further back got knocked off.
	The building was blown out, pieces of it on top, buildings across the street.
	They removed unexploded bombs inside.
	Pat Shannon, from your years of study of this, what's the clearest picture of why some of those bombs didn't go off?
	I don't know.
	I don't know why they didn't go off.
	We just know that they did not.
	And they were hauled out at about 10.30 that morning, an hour and a half after the incident.
	All the rescue was stopped and ceased until afternoon.
	I even got on video the Governor Frank Keating talking about that they found these unexploded bombs.
	And all these bombs carry signatures.
	And as soon as we are able to examine this, we'll be able to tell you exactly.
	Very sophisticated device.
	Pardon?
	He called it a very sophisticated device.
	Yeah, that's right.
	That's correct.
	Well, now in the museum, what I call furthering cover-up of the cover-up, they've refuted their own evidence, Alex.
	They've got Venetian blinds that were hanging in the actual windows, and they're blown out.
	You know, explain to me how you got a bomb on the street.
	Must have been a suck bomb, as one guy called it, you know, to suck these Venetian blinds out the window, as it did.
	It's just some of the absurd things that they want to sell us, but that's one of the powers of a propaganda machine in television.
	They can do it.
	Let's take a call.
	John in New York.
	John, go ahead.
	Hello?
	Yes.
	Yeah, hi.
	I have a question.
	I'm pretty sure about five or six months ago, I was listening, I'm 99% sure to the Power Hour, and she was interviewing someone who was at the execution of Tim McVeigh, and I remember her statement.
	I think she was a reporter for one of the papers or something.
	That would be the lady from the Chicago Tribune who commented that she didn't think he was dead.
	He appeared to still be breathing.
	Okay.
	Right.
	All right.
	You know about that.
	I just wasn't aware.
	Oh, okay.
	There was another reporter from the Indianapolis Star Tribune who said that.
	No, I didn't hear that.
	Okay.
	I only heard it the one time, and I tried to search for it, and I couldn't find it again.
	But I'm almost sure it was on that show.
	Okay.
	Well, there were some other suspicious things going on with that execution.
	They flew in an expert, yet Terre Haute, Indiana Federal Penitentiary is state-of-the-art.
	It's an execution center.
	Yeah, that's right.
	And so why did they need to bring in an expert with different chemicals?
	Because I know that she said also, she said, well, you know that already, but she said that they took the body out, would let nobody look at it, and I think they cremated him kind of like quick.
	Well, after getting, or at least publicly saying that he requested that.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Do you think McVeigh's still alive?
	I mean, there were a lot of prominent mainstream reporters that said as they took him out, his stomach was rising and falling.
	That's what I hear.
	Right.
	What do you think, Pat?
	Well, no, I can't say.
	I did an Amusing's article.
	It's on my website.
	It's archived under my Musings.
	Well, I interviewed Craig Roberts, who's another private investigator in Oklahoma with quite the experience.
	Yeah, Colonel Craig Roberts.
	Yes, and I commented then that I didn't believe it.
	By the time I got through interviewing him, I said, I could have been possible, so they can read it there.
	How?
	What could be possible?
	That McVeigh was still alive.
	Oh, yeah, they do that all the time.
	I mean, the CIA has staged the death of thousands of Special Forces officers, and they give them new identities, plastic surgery.
	That's admitted.
	Right, but my contention was that McVeigh was better off with them dead than alive.
	And Colonel Roberts showed me how I may not have been correct on that.
	Yeah.
	All right, well, thank you so much for the call, John, in New York.
	We've got next hour Daniel Hopsinger.
	Coming on to talk about his incredible work in exposing the guy that's going to be our new Homeland Security Fuhrer.
	Pat Shannon, I want to get you back up soon, my friend.
	Okay, thanks very much.
	I'll be traveling this month and doing some other investigation on the Oklahoma thing.
	When you finish the book, why don't you have your lovely Violet let me know.
	All right, my friend.
	Godspeed to you.
	We'll be back with the third hour of transmission.
	Stay with us.
	Introduce... Big Brother.
	Mainstream media.
	Government cover-ups.
	You want answers?
	Well, so does he.
	He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
	We got Daniel Hopsicker coming on.
	We tried to call him, his circuits were busy, but I just tried to call him and the phone was ringing, so try it again.
	He's made a lot of just incredible documentaries, written just hundreds of great reports, exposing government drug dealing, government involvement in terrorism.
	Last hour, we were talking to Pat Shannon from American Free Press about, well,
	We're good to go.
	It's amazing to see this type of stuff going on.
	But now we have Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department, and he may have shielded, this whole process may be about shielding from criminal prosecution, a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama bin Laden while in charge of the U.S.
	government's 9-1-1 investigation.
	And the interesting thing about all of this is just like General Mahmoud Ahmed, the second trip in his life to the United States, the head of Pakistani intelligence, meeting with Porter Goss and others as the planes flew into buildings on the morning of 9-11.
	And then it turns out, it's admitted in the New York Times, Washington Post, that he wired $100,000 to Mohammed Adam.
	And then he's hanging out with Goss, who becomes your new CIA chief.
	It's like the head of NORAD, who had to certainly know about the stand-down, General Frank Eberhardt, he then becomes the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff.
	All of these guys, who were intimately involved in 9-11, in the stand-down, in the cover-up, or involved in it itself, are now being promoted to all the highest positions.
	And it's very, very, very serious when you see how they're putting these individuals into place.
	Now, we're going to break here and come back, and a lot of stations join us after the news, and we'll bring up our guest, who, again, I've been watching his videos for years.
	He's done so much really important work exposing the New World Order and the globalists and government drug dealing, you name it, and he's been on the cutting edge of exposing people like Michael Chertoff, and it's been a great investigation of the gentleman who's going to be, obviously, our new Homeland Security Chief.
	And his connections to 9-11 and to organized crime, you name it.
	So that's all coming up after the break.
	The website, check out these fine reports and look at some of the videos that have been produced by Daniel Hopsicker, is madcalproduction.com.
	That's madcalproduction.com.
	And I suggest you go to that website and get hard copies of his documentary films.
	He has been kind enough to allow us to post it on prisonplanet.tv.
	And so, one of his newest and best videos, Muhammad Atub and the Venice Flying Circus is posted there for anybody that wants to go up to prisonplanet.tv.
	So when we return, we will get into this detail.
	I mean, it is lengthy.
	That's why I like PopSicker's reports on things, because he just nexuses so many different points together and follows the money trail.
	And you'll get an idea of what a monster Michael Chertoff is.
	Just in his own business activities and in the people he defends and the people he prosecutes and what he does.
	Then there's that whole other area that we discussed in the first hour with Professor and lawyer Ellen Castle getting into how...
	Mr. Chertoff, like Gonzalez, is the architect of torture, architect of the Patriot Act, you name it.
	These are very unsavory, dark characters that we're talking about, and we'll detail it on the other side of this quick break.
	So stay with us.
	On the other side, we'll talk to Daniel Hopsegger.
	Stay with us.
	Alex Jones here announcing the release of my new film, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.
	Police State 3 details the architecture, goals, and operations of the New World Order.
	There is a chance to use this disaster for the New World Order.
	The New World Order.
	Can't emerge.
	The film documents dozens of confirmed cases of government-sponsored terrorism worldwide.
	We rip the Sinister Patriot Act legislation one and two apart, piece by piece, and reveal the arrogance of what Ashcroft has to say about your liberty.
	You will lose your liberty.
	Homeland Security, executive orders, forced vaccinations, the new prison economy, the Total Information Society, the Pan-American Union, federal gun grabs, government-run white slavery rings, and much, much more.
	If you want to understand what the New World Order really is, then my new two-and-a-half-hour video, Police Day 3, is for you.
	Visit Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com to order.
	Or call toll-free 1-888-253-3139.
	That's 888-253-3139.
	Order today and spread the word.
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	He's the T-Rex of political talk.
	Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
	All right, my friends, we're now 8 minutes and 25 seconds into the third hour.
	Of this January 12, 2005 edition.
	Thank you so much for joining us.
	We're joined by documentary filmmaker, researcher, Daniel Hopsicker.
	And I'm, again, honored to have him with us.
	The website is madcalproduction.com.
	That's madcalproduction.com.
	We have a link to it at infowars.com and prisonplanet.com.
	Daniel, it's great to have you on with us.
	Hey, Alex.
	Pleasure to meet you.
	I heard a lot about you.
	Well, I'm impressed.
	I saw your Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus.
	An interesting name, but the film details why you gave it that name.
	And I want to talk about 9-11 some today, but I first off want to get into your detailed report
	About Michael Chertoff, because I've been researching Chertoff for years, and it was great to see a lot of the things I had independently confirmed and more pulled together in one spot on your website with this detailed, I don't know, 10-15 page report.
	But first off, tell us about Daniel Hopsicker, and then let's get into why you've been interested in Mr. Chertoff.
	Well, you know, Alex, nobody's interested in me.
	I'll give you 30 seconds, you know, quickly.
	I was a business news producer who went astray when I went out to shoot a pilot for a show that I thought would update In Search Of with Leonard Nimoy.
	For the paranoid 90s, don't you know?
	And the story I was told by my associate producers on featuring on the pilot episode concerned the deaths of two 17-year-old kids in Arkansas who stumbled onto a drug drop late one night in 1987.
	And when I got down there, instead of a 10-minute story on a half-an-hour pilot, silly pilot, by the way, I realized,
	You know, that I had a story in front of me that I needed to treat with utmost seriousness and with everything I could bring to it in terms of both skill and intelligence.
	That's right.
	You're one of the pioneers, one of the first to report the details of Mena, Arkansas and the drug trafficking there.
	Well, actually, probably one of the last.
	I remember right after it seeing you reporting on it.
	Yeah, I got some things right.
	So, let's talk about Chertoff for a minute.
	Long story short, Alex, I wrote a book about Barry Seal, Barry and the Boys, and so developed an unintended expertise in CIA aviation crime.
	Yes.
	Then here's what happened.
	September 11th was unique to me because three days afterwards when it came out that three of the four terrorist pilots had learned to fly in the retirement community of Venice, Florida, I went, there's something really hinky about that.
	I already knew that because my parents bought a retirement house in Venice, Florida in 1977.
	We're good.
	And of course there are 220 flight schools in Florida alone, and yet the bulk of the terrorists apparently favored two schools owned by an international Dutch criminal named Rudy Deckers.
	So that's enough about me.
	Let's talk about Chertoff, shall we?
	Yeah, let's get into that.
	And then later I want to get into the flying circus, because you went and interviewed the locals, you talked to people right next door to these hangars, all these different CIA connections there locally.
	Yes, yes, and I'm proud of the job I did doing it.
	I was the only person, Venice to me, Venice, Florida, was the biggest September 11th crime scene that wasn't reduced to rubble.
	It was where the terrorist conspiracy hung out for far more longer than the FBI would want us to know.
	And if they had associates that we would want to know more about, this would be the place to find them.
	And so you would think, wouldn't you, that after some immense national tragedy like September 11th, that there would have been a hundred investigative reporters knocking on Muhammad Adda's next door neighbor's door and asking, what was he like?
	Who did he hang out with?
	Who picked him up?
	Nobody did.
	Nobody did.
	Everyone... I mean, it was so clear to me, as I'm sure it was to you, that there was an official media clampdown, blackout, whatever you want to call it, immediately after September 11th, and no real news filtered out after the first few days.
	Now enter Mr. Chartoff.
	I mean, there's just all sorts of things this guy's involved in.
	Yeah, well...
	This stuff is not that hard to find, is it?
	Let me give you 30 seconds on how we found this out.
	One of the young people that helps me out here became interested.
	He did research, which is something most people don't do.
	He decided that he was going to track down the names and addresses of the terrorists
	On the FBI list that was inadvertently released by the government of Finland after September 11th.
	So he discovered that one of the suspected terrorists on the list shared several addresses with a man who is today, or was until recently, the military attache at the Moroccan embassy in Washington, D.C., Colonel Arara.
	And he thought that was pretty odd and so we investigated it and we ended up doing a story about it and while we were doing that story we became aware that Muhammad Abba had relatives in Orlando.
	And so we were
	He was alert to the possibility that he might have had other relatives in the U.S.
	And, of course, that's where Chertoff comes in.
	We became aware of the doctor, I don't know how to say his name, Myhad Elamir, who is a neurologist in New Jersey.
	And he's a neurologist in New Jersey whose HMO was...
	busted out to the tune of about $45 million that New Jersey taxpayers had to pay to pick up with this guy left.
	And yet he was never charged with the crime.
	And he was never charged with the crime because one good reason was he had probably the best criminal defense attorney in New Jersey and the most well-connected, a guy by the name of Michael Chertoff.
	And so we began looking a little more closely at Dr.
	He had been named in an intelligence report that went before September 11th to the head of the House International Committee who thought that it was a verifiable report and passed it on to the FBI.
	This report said that this doctor was sending millions of bucks to Osama Bin Laden from this HMO he was busting out in New Jersey.
	And then we have Michael Chertoff protecting him as his lawyer.
	And then we see the same story with General Mood Ahmed, the head of Pakistani intelligence, with $100,000 to Mohammed Adda, meeting that morning with Porter Goss at the Capitol.
	I mean, it's like everybody Bush puts in place, whether it's General Eberhard and NORAD, at every level, the people involved in cover-ups are put in higher-level positions.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	You couldn't be more accurate in that statement.
	In fact, it actually gets kind of funny.
	I mean, there's two attitudes you can adopt towards the way things go here in this country.
	One is that of constant outrage, and I subscribe to that.
	And the other is you've got to be a little bit amused by it occasionally.
	So, for instance, when President Bush appointed Henry Kissinger, the initial head of the 9-11 Commission...
	I thought that he was attempting to illustrate his capacity for irony.
	Yes.
	And then when he appointed Asa Hutchinson to head the DEA, I thought how splendid could that be?
	Asa Hutchinson was the U.S.
	Attorney in Western Arkansas.
	I mean, I've interviewed CIA officers who were there unloading the cocaine.
	It's not a secret.
	I mean, I don't know.
	Yes.
	We're good to go.
	A guy who has all kinds of strange connections.
	Sending money to Al Ciata.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	And then, Alex, it gets worse, okay?
	Because if you think about it... It always gets worse.
	Yes, it does.
	It does.
	Everybody's entitled to defense.
	Chertoff would just say, hey, I was, you know, I didn't know he was a terrorist at that point, you know, and I was, you know, that's my job, to defend people.
	That's where our Constitution says you get.
	But then after 9-11, Bush appointed him head of the official 9-11 investigation.
	And...
	There was... I mean, this guy was at the heart of that Jersey City, New Jersey stuff, okay?
	He... The guy... The Dana Molson guy was on his payroll.
	The guy that was looking for stingers.
	The Pakistani looking for stingers.
	And that was when the first...
	That was the first time I saw the complete outline of some of what was going on, because the deal that Dr. Amir's buddy was trying to cut in New Jersey before he got busted was called typical by federal prosecutors, and that deal was oil and heroin for guns and training.
	Ah!
	Well, I'll tell you what.
	Stay there, Daniel Hopsicker.
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	We're talking to Daniel Hopsicker, documentary filmmaker, researcher.
	His website is just full of a lot of powerful information.
	You'll definitely want to check it out.
	It's madcalprod.com, or the abbreviation of productions, madcalprod.com.
	And he's been really kind enough to allow us to post his documentary film online at prisonplanet.tv, Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus.
	I want to get into that later in the next segment and also tell listeners how they can get a copy of that film and some of his other great videos that I've been a fan of for years.
	But Daniel, continuing with Michael Chertoff... Right, right.
	Let me give you just... because you've been on him for years, for the last two years...
	He testified right after being named to head the investigation.
	This is just three weeks after September 11th, early in October.
	He testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee.
	And if you remember back then, I mean, we were all scared.
	I mean, I was scared.
	And, you know, I think he spoke a little more of the truth than he would have liked.
	They were arrogant back then.
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't know if they were or not.
	So what did he say?
	Well, he said, frankly, he said he can't distinguish between drug smuggling and terrorist activity.
	The two blend in together with the mob.
	And that's what they were going after.
	They were going to follow the money, right?
	So it wasn't but a few months after that that we discovered down here that during the same month...
	That Mohammed Adda arrived at his flight school, the owner of the flight school, Wally Hilliard, had his Learjet confiscated on the runway of Orlando Executive Airport, and not by mistake, by DEA agents who found 43 pounds of heroin on board.
	So, Chardoff is running off his mouth about, we're going to follow the money, and drug smuggling, and, you know...
	And this was the same, a week later, President Bush... And again, folks, tell them who that individual you just mentioned is.
	The man that owned the flight school that these terrorists came to learn to fly in, ostensibly, Wally Hilliard, the same month they got here, July of 2000.
	And your film gets into how the CIA's got a big base there locally and how he's connected to that.
	Correct.
	Correct.
	Very much so.
	You've got the documents.
	You've got the interviews.
	I mean, it's totally obvious...
	Right, exactly.
	It is.
	I mean, you know, it didn't take a genius to see it.
	I guess it took an idiot to stick with it.
	But, you know, Bob Woodward should have been all over this.
	The story that these terrorists moved through the U.S.
	unnoticed is baloney.
	Muhammad Atta and his gang were here at the invitation, behest,
	And again, there's just so many different connections.
	You go into some other things about Mr. Chertoff.
	Yep.
	What specifically?
	There's just so much here in your detailed report, and I've seen some of it here and there over the years, but you've got one of the most detailed ones I've seen here.
	Just all his connections.
	It just goes on and on.
	Yeah.
	What Chertoff was doing in New Jersey, defending this man, is the same thing that we see happening in Boston, where...
	An officially protected, FBI-protected terrorist activity was allowed to continue after September 11th.
	This is exactly the same thing that FBI translator whistleblower Sybil Edmonds, I believe, is speaking about when she says that there was a protected drug smuggling activity by a quasi-governmental organization going on in conjunction with the terrorist network.
	This is what they were protecting.
	And she was being ordered to go back and falsify transcripts.
	I don't know what she was ordered to do, but I do know that when I first heard her allegation that she had seen documents proving that there was an officially protected drug smuggling activity going on in conjunction with the terrorist network, I knew that was the same thing I'd seen in Venice.
	I mean, that was the same thing I've been seeing in Venice, Florida.
	I mean, 43 pounds of heroin is a huge amount.
	I mean, it's major trafficking, and you have to ask yourself, you know, what was going on?
	And then you realize that your own government is telling you that Osama bin Laden basically ran Afghanistan before 9-11, and Afghanistan was producing two-thirds of the world's heroin back then, and even more now.
	So if you're running that international activity, aren't you going to want to sell your dope into the world's richest market?
	We'll be right back.
	Stay with us with our guest.
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	We're talking to Daniel Hopsicker, documentary filmmaker, and again, on PrisonPlanet.tv.
	He's good enough to allow us to post it there at PrisonPlanet.tv, his documentary film, Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus.
	Daniel, for folks that want to get a hard copy of
	That particular film, or any of your films, tell us about some of your great videos, some of your presentations, some of your investigations, and how folks get those.
	Well, it's all at madcowprod.com, our website.
	That's what keeps us going.
	It keeps us researching.
	What we have right now, I don't know if you even know this.
	I shot a two-hour long interview with Mohamed Adas.
	American Girlfriend.
	Yes.
	And we've rolled an hour of that now onto the end of the Muhammadada video, so if you order a hard copy of it, that's what you get.
	You get the extra hour of just watching a girl talk about things she saw, you know, in a very offhand way, because it wasn't any big deal for her at the time.
	It didn't become a big deal until, of course, after September 11th.
	It's powerful information and it's madcowprod.com.
	A lot of different films and professionally produced information.
	If you don't have web access or want to call, there's an 800 number.
	It's 800-556-2012.
	Give that number out again, please.
	800-556-2012.
	And we're going to give that out again before you leave us here at the end of the broadcast in about 25 minutes, but I want to get more into Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, because the film's incredible.
	I mean, the CIA, they're locally, what they're doing, the connections, it's totally obvious.
	But I want to bring up a few other points.
	It's admitted that the FBI paid for homes, cars, credit cards, that informants live with hijackers on both coasts.
	That they were at U.S.
	military bases, then they were out creating a ledger or a history at private flight schools.
	I mean, it just goes on and on and on.
	But all that has come out in the mainstream news, but it's back in the newspaper or on some obscure MSNBC archive.
	Why hasn't more of this come out?
	You know, and sometimes it comes out and then immediately dies.
	And that's how you know the story's been killed.
	For instance, just four days after September 11th, all the big papers, or most of them, Newsweek, Washington Post, the Miami Herald, and the Knight Ridder newspapers all reported that six of the hijackers, including Muhammad Atta, had attended secure U.S.
	military facilities, schooling at secure U.S.
	military facilities.
	They never denied the story, but it was dropped like a hot potato.
	Pensacola Naval Air Station, and then you and others have reported, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but there were people with the same names as hijackers, even looked like them, who were training other Arabs at U.S.
	bases who then died in mysterious accidents?
	There have been any number of strange things happen.
	You know, what I'm personally aware of is the intimidation of witnesses down in Florida.
	Yeah, tell us about that.
	Well, I mean...
	Alex, just look at it this way.
	Ada lived for almost three months with what was then a pink-haired stripper.
	Now, after September 11th, you're the National Enquirer.
	You go nuts for that story, right?
	I saw a side moment.
	A mom that no one else saw said, stripper girlfriend.
	She's got incredible details.
	We couldn't get that story reported anywhere, except in the German media.
	The biggest German newspaper picked it up for their six million readers.
	So if you're German, you can find out about the nightly drinking and cocaine and drug-fueled three-day weekends in Key West that supposed Islamic fundamentalist, Muhammad Atta,
	And his buddies went on.
	Yeah, and they're handing their cards out and leaving Korans at the topless bars, and their magic passports fall out of the sky.
	Alex, here's the most amazing thing she said, okay?
	I mean, she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and she wasn't paying totally close attention, but, I mean, she told about almost nightly, okay?
	Half a dozen of Ada's closest associates while he was in Florida weren't Arab.
	They were German and Swiss.
	These are people he went out with nightly.
	These are people he went to meeting.
	We just lost his phone.
	Isn't that interesting?
	Is his phone still connected?
	Disconnect and call him back.
	That happens every once in a while.
	And again, folks, this is up on prisonplanet.tv for members there, 15 cents a day.
	We've got the film, but I suggest you get a hard copy from Daniel Hopsicker.
	His film, Bahamanetta and the Venice Flying Circus, it just goes through all the CIA people, all of it.
	I mean, it's just bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
	And then don't forget what we were covering in the last hour.
	You've got this head BATF guy who was part of a secret U.S.
	government program, now public, congressional documents, of blowing up truck bombs and van bombs and car bombs, seven of them out in the New Mexico desert in the months before Oklahoma City, and then he's on the ground when it goes off, outside the building, and calls the media and the BATF within ten minutes saying it's an ANFO bomb.
	What's the chances of that?
	It's the same M.O.
	over and over and over and over again.
	We have official U.S.
	government plans like Northwood's to carry out 9-11 style attacks with planes.
	And we're just supposed to ignore all of this.
	We have Daniel back?
	All right.
	We'll deal with this here in a moment.
	But it's just mind-blowing.
	It's mind-blowing how serious things have gotten.
	And then you've got Mr. Chertoff.
	Hanging out with one of the biggest admitted funders of Alciada.
	He's off representing him.
	He's off just nexus point, connection point after connection point.
	And it's the same thing with the entire cabinet.
	We got Condoleezza Rice calling Mayor Willie Brown up the night before.
	Her good friend from when she lived in San Francisco was on several boards with him and saying, don't fly to New York tomorrow.
	We got the Joint Chiefs of Staff telling Newsweek the day after the attacks because they weren't in the loop.
	Saying, hey, we got told not to fly to New York tomorrow.
	We got Salman Rushdie being told you can't fly to New York for the next few days for your safety.
	On and on and on.
	Daniel, mysteriously, your phone went dead there, my friend.
	Yeah, it must have just been a glitch or a ghost in the machine.
	I'm not important enough to mess with.
	I'm sure.
	But you were continuing there.
	Now this pink-haired topless dancer who was living with Ada, she said these Anglo guys, these white guys...
	...are showing up, hanging around, and we were told these were Muslim extremists, but they're all out partying in U.S.
	military bases and doing drugs.
	And the Germans are operatives.
	I mean, I've traced some of them.
	They're people with elaborate cover stories.
	I met the girl, I met the woman I'm with when I sailed into Bombay after being blown across the...
	The East Indian Ocean on a worldwide sailing trip.
	You know, that kind of stuff.
	And of course, Ada himself, we discovered, was in Hamburg on our dime, on your dime and my dime.
	For four of the seven years that he lived in Hamburg, he was supported by something called the Congress Bundestag Program, which is a joint U.S.-German program.
	But let's expand on that.
	When several of the hijackers or the decoys went to a Malaysian al-Qaeda, al-CIA summit, and I've even interviewed the folks from the embassies, ladies and gentlemen, they were ordered to let them back in, give them visas again, even though they had gotten on the terrorist watch list.
	The CIA is saying, you let them back in.
	And even before that, I interviewed Mr. Springman,
	And back on the Chertoff front for a moment.
	Right.
	My buddy Sander Hicks did an interview with Randy Glass, I believe, in which Glass said that his investigation was shut down.
	That it already led to people that were trying to buy Stinger missiles for heroin.
	And then the CIA and FBI agents that tried to stop these people, they got reprimanded or fired, but those that held up the investigations got record cash bonuses in 2002.
	There you go.
	There you go.
	I'll tell you what.
	If there's one ray of light here, it is this.
	There is not a huge pool of operatives, apparently, from which to draw.
	Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing things like naming Chertoff head of Homeland Security or Robert Mueller head of the FBI.
	Very astute.
	In fact, I'm going to interrupt you.
	I'm going to steal your thunder.
	This is what I say every day.
	You're on point.
	And I'm going to bring up a totally different example, and then please go back to your point.
	But I want to reinforce it.
	I'm glad you're saying this.
	Nobody else is saying this.
	They were going to have these tribunals at Camp X-Ray.
	The head general, Rick Baucus, quit, says, I'm not going to torture.
	They've had, what is it, five different prosecutors and defense lawyers quit and say these people are innocent.
	These aren't even real trials.
	They can't even have fake tribunals now.
	So now the CIA and State Department last week announced, okay, no trials ever, executive order, we're just going to hold you for life.
	So the good news is, you're right.
	It is a very small group, so it's hard for them to operate.
	Please continue.
	You're absolutely right.
	They're extremely smart, they're extremely good, but I believe they can be beaten because sooner or later everybody's going to see through it.
	And the more we expose them, the more we get involved, the more fires they've got to put out.
	And now I've noticed they can't even counter us half the time now.
	They're losing all credibility.
	Daniel, I mean, six, seven years ago, half the callers called me a kook.
	Now the show's 50 times bigger.
	No one calls in disagreeing.
	I do interviews everywhere.
	I mean, I think we've turned the corner with the minds of the people.
	You know, and also where I see that is in the election story and vote fraud.
	Four years ago, on the eve of the 2000 election, I was waiting for my book Barry and the Boys to come out and having nothing better to do, I went out to shoot a documentary based on some wacky friend's idea that American elections
	Well, you know, I think that's a pretty common sentiment.
	You know, four years ago when I first realized, when I first saw that this idea wasn't wacky, you know, I was floored by it.
	And then, of course, your reaction after that is, oh, well, of course, you know.
	Let's go back to when I interrupted you.
	You talked about him not having enough operatives for these 9-11 type things.
	I can bring up just one quick election example for you.
	One of the guys whose activity spans 9-11 and the election is Adnan Khashoggi, Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi.
	He and a couple of unnamed Saudi billionaire buddies of his, through a shell company in Bermuda, owned the company that counted American servicemen's votes overseas until 2003, when it was exposed.
	And when it was exposed, they real quick sold the company, moved the company, because it's parked.
	I'm sure your listeners know what it means to park a company.
	Offshore, dummy corporations.
	Well, here's what it is.
	If you're a mob boss and I'm a mob boss and I've got a girlfriend and no place to put her and you've got an empty condo, you say, well, you can park her in my apartment, in my condo.
	I mean, she's my girlfriend, but she's in your condo.
	So that's what it means.
	They moved the election company from the Saudis in Bermuda.
	Of all companies, they sold the company to Accenture.
	Which is the disgraced remains of Arthur Anderson, the people that made possible the $13 billion ripoff of Enron.
	They're always changing the name, just like Dyncor gets caught kidnapping children.
	Caught, convicted, and so they just change their name and get even bigger contracts.
	This is incredible.
	Daniel Hopsinger, what do you see their big game plan if they're not brought down, this organized crime?
	What will the world be like in five years if we don't stop them?
	Let me be honest with you, Alex.
	The answer to that question is, first of all, it eludes me.
	Second of all, if it didn't, it's way above my pay grade.
	I just try to stick to what's going on on the ground.
	Here's what I'm upset about.
	In the major events that have occurred in my country in my lifetime, I don't have a clue as to what happened.
	The Kennedy assassination.
	Well, I mean, of course, we know now, but we didn't then.
	Watergate, we still don't know what that was about.
	We're always being lied to.
	Yeah, and then September 11th happened, and it was the most god-awful event, as everyone knows, in the history of the world, right?
	And I'm not allowed to know, you know, what happened.
	Because, clearly, the story of September 11th is something happened, then something else happened, and then September 11th happened.
	And I'm not allowed to know what went before.
	And then we disprove every major pillar of their official story, and then they never come back and tell us why they lied to us.
	You know, I have two postulates about what happened September 11th.
	I mean, obviously, we were doing business with Osama bin Laden, dirty business, heroin business, and somebody was making a lot of money, and that somebody on this end isn't an Arab.
	And then either at our behest, because they're our boys, or as a double-cross, which is also possible, September 11th happened.
	But to me, the fact is, these hideous, hideous people
	Would not have been here if we had an honest government.
	Well, you are a journalist, pure and simple, and I engage in journalistic endeavors, but at the same time, I am a pundit, a political person who talks about these things.
	From all the evidence, and I think we could get a conviction, and we could show this to a grand jury and then to a jury, just in a 30, 45 second nutshell, this is what went down.
	Because they do this in Oklahoma City, First World Trade Center bombing.
	They do this over and over again.
	They tell everybody it's a drill.
	We know this happened because in case they get caught and the compartmentalization wall falls down, they can just say it was a drill.
	You've got these Arabs who are these double agents who have been here and been trained and protected.
	They're told they're part of a drill.
	We know they were flying around, quote, testing the hijacking.
	Mr. Woods and others saw them.
	They think they're on board the aircraft as part of a drill.
	This is what I've got from high-level government sources.
	The people on board the plane are knocked out by something.
	Remote control takes control.
	They fly them into the buildings.
	Then they plant this whole big official story.
	And basically that's from all the evidence, the clearest direction that everything points.
	We know their official story is impossible.
	Yeah, that's true.
	You know, I don't agree with you, but it's okay that I don't agree with you because we both agree that...
	We haven't been told.
	Well, where do you think it all points?
	Well, you know, here's what I think.
	Mohamed Adda hated us.
	Mohamed Adda hated us bad.
	Mohamed Adda was a psychopath.
	Mohamed Adda, when his stripper girlfriend kicked him out, came back when she wasn't there and slaughtered her six baby kittens, left kitten parts all over the apartment, gutted the mother cat.
	So you think they found psychopaths and then opened the doors for them?
	I know that he was enough of a psychopath to... Stay there.
	We'll be right back.
	Stay there.
	We'll hear about it on the other side.
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	No, I'll stand my ground.
	I'm sorry to all the callers, loaded phone lines.
	We haven't been taking calls this hour because news has been too important.
	But we're going to have Daniel Hopsicker back on in the near future.
	I was talking to Daniel during the break, and I said, well, what do you not agree with in my theory, as you can see?
	And he says, well, I agree with a lot of it, just not all of it.
	And I'm interested to hear specifically what you don't agree with, Daniel.
	I think Mohammed Adda knowingly flew a plane into a building and so did Marwan al-Sheikhi.
	No one questions, you know, I mean, there are suicide bombers every day in the Middle East, in Israel.
	No one ever questions their motives.
	No one ever says, well, the guy... Okay, then what do you think I'm saying that's right?
	Because obviously all the doors are open for them.
	All the rest of it.
	All the rest of it.
	All the rest of it is that... So they're government agents, they're in drills, and what, they were supposed to be part of the drill, but made it real, or what?
	You know, here's what we're both saying, is the true story remains to be written.
	And this is the biggest... There has to be something...
	Really monstrous to have covered up so assiduously, okay?
	Something that half the planet watched live.
	And, I mean, the majority... See, 20 years after the Kennedy... It took 20 years after the Kennedy assassination before a majority of Americans said that the government wasn't telling us.
	And now, 40 years later, it's 90-plus percent that the government did it.
	Sure.
	Well, here we are just three years after September 11th, and I'm sure it's a solid majority that... Well, seeing it end in a poll, 90% believe the government was involved.
	The Zogby poll is 50%.
	You know, I believe the government was involved to the extent that these terrorists were here at the official behest of the government.
	I mean, Zacharias Moussaoui can teach us something in his rantings in federal court.
	He says that any time he got pulled over, they ran his name through the national crime base and they came back, you know, go your way, can I polish your headlights?
	Have a good day.
	And he thinks that's what happened to Atta when Atta was pulled over on three or four occasions.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So we know they opened the door, funded him, trained him, and then we don't know what happened.
	Clearly, we can't see 100% there in those last few minutes.
	But bottom line, Daniel, they're using all of this to take our rights away and none of this has anything to do with terrorism and they're setting up a total police state.
	And certainly that's one way to look at it.
	I don't know if I'll ever know the real truth, but I know I'm going to keep looking for it until I either find it or realize I'll never find it.
	But America is turning into a police state.
	Well, here's the deal.
	We're supposed to be a democracy, Alex.
	Okay?
	I mean, we have no free press.
	Okay?
	The essential prerequisite of any democracy, any democratic republic, is an informed citizenry.
	The people perish for lack of knowledge.
	Give folks that number one more time to get Muhammad Atta and the Venice Flying Circus or any of your other great films.
	Sure.
	It's 800-556-2012.
	One more time.
	1-800-556-2012.
	The website's the Mad Cow Productions, madcowprod.com.
	All right.
	Thank you so much for coming on with us, and thanks for letting us post your fine video that fills in a lot of the blanks, a large part of the puzzle pieces.
	That's there at prisonplanet.tv, and God bless you, Daniel.
	Look forward to talking to you again, Alex.
	Have a good day.
	You bet, my friend.
	A very interesting researcher, again, mainstream TV producer in the past, and just really gets in there and covers a lot.
	I suggest you go to prisonplanet.tv.
	There's one more reason if you're online to go get a membership for a month or a year.
	A monthly membership, $5.95.
	A yearly membership, you save a large portion of that.
	Fifteen cents a day, my friends.
	Why not go to prisonplanet.tv?
	Or if you're not online, be sure and call Mr. Hopsicker and get yourself a copy.
	I'll be back tonight, 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
	Please tell your friends and family to tune in.
	And back tomorrow, from 11 to 2 Central, if you want any of my videos, big discount still going, 1-888-253-3139, 888-253-3139.
	All right, God bless you all.
	Until we see you back here again, live in a few hours.
	R.T.