On February 10th, 2003, "The Alex Jones Show" discussed a leaked draft bill of Patriot Act II analyzed by the Center for Public Integrity. Bill Allison, Managing Editor of the Center, provided an overview of the document. The Center is focused on government ethics watchdogging and international journalism, aiming to protect citizens' rights and disclose information about government activity. The draft bill includes sweeping expansions of anti-terrorist legislation, expands the definition of enemy combatant to criminal activities, allows for designation of domestic terrorists based on political beliefs or actions, and has caused significant concern among civil liberties advocates, raising questions about the government's intentions in proposing such measures.
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| Bill Moyers with his show NOW, which is I guess more of an intellectual pursuit program. | |
| I watch it routinely. | |
| It does have more in-depth information. | |
| Broke a massive story that was actually broken by the Center for Public Integrity. | |
| We have a link to it on InfoWars.com, on PrisonPlanet.com as well. | |
| You can go there right now. | |
| A Justice Department draft sweeping expansion of Anti-Terrorism Act. | |
| And it is in bill format. | |
| I have read the whole thing twice. | |
| It is bone-chilling, much more draconian than the first Patriot Act. | |
| And joining us for the next 10-15 minutes to go over this is Bill Allison, managing editor of the Center for Public Integrity. | |
| Mr. Allison, thanks for taking time out to join us here on the show today, sir. | |
| It's a pleasure to be here. | |
| You bet. | |
| First off, tell us about the Center for Public Integrity, and then your analysis, your organization's analysis of Patriot Act II, and now the White House is pretty upset that this has gone public. | |
| Well, the Center is a non-partisan, non-profit, government ethics watchdog located in Washington, D.C. | |
| We look at everything from state, legislator, financial disclosure forms to campaign contributions. | |
| We have international journalists who look into everything from water privatization to the privatization of combat. | |
| We've been around for about a dozen years and we're funded by foundations. | |
| All of our donors are on our website. | |
| Since we believe in disclosure, we feel like we should disclose where we get our money from, too. | |
| Well, you know, you just raised some massive issues. | |
| We've got private corporations, this is big news now, paying off leaders all over the world to grab water supplies, jack up prices, quality plunges in many cases. | |
| We've had BBC reporters on talking about this. | |
| That really, when I watched Governor Ridge, | |
| On a Homeland Security meeting, he bragged, this is a merger of government and the top corporations, and really he's a big money maker, but this new thing with Patriot Act II, I have read it, obviously you've read it, and it makes my head spin. | |
| I mean, this is something right out of the Soviet Union. | |
| What response are you getting now that you've broken the story, and how did you get the document number one? | |
| Well, the response has been overwhelming. | |
| Our website has barely been able to keep up with it, and as far as how we got the document, we had a source who gave it to us, and of course, you know, we honor our sources and protect them, so I can't say much else about that. | |
| We did some groundwork. | |
| We talked to people in Congress, and we talked to various people in the administration, and were able to, you know, | |
| To our satisfaction, the document was genuine. | |
| Oh, they responded to it? | |
| Oh yeah, sure. | |
| Actually, within 45 minutes of our putting the document up on the web, we got a call from the Justice Department to tell us they'd released a statement about it. | |
| Some of the people who told us they didn't know anything about it suddenly knew all kinds of things about it and were calling to tell us. | |
| It's marked confidential, not for distribution. | |
| 33 pages of it is analysis and synopsis. | |
| The other 80 plus pages is in bill form. | |
| And we saw this with Patriot Act 1. | |
| Members of Congress were not allowed to read it. | |
| Ron Paul has said that here on the air, the Congressman. | |
| And then suddenly they get a call from Dick Cheney, you better pass this or we'll blame you with the next attack. | |
| And now they've got Patriot Act 2 that I can't believe what's in this, sir. | |
| There are all kinds of things in it that are just shocking and I think that you know part of the thing about this administration and the way that they've handled this I mean Congress has been asking for quite literally for months going back as far as July of last year and there was again asking in October whether justice was drafting anything and they were very coy about what their intentions were and would only give vague statements that you know that you know while we continue to look at everything and we care about protecting the American people | |
| I don't | |
| And, you know, the question is, were they going to drop it? | |
| You know, were they waiting until a propitious moment like, for example, war in Iraq or, God forbid, another terrorist attack to come out with it? | |
| Well, that's exactly what I said Saturday in my post at InfoWars.com. | |
| I said, they're waiting with this in the wings, just like the first Patriot Act, which most of it had already been written up by these people. | |
| It's a wish list. | |
| I was reading the 120 pages. | |
| Most of this has nothing to do with terrorism. | |
| It'll also say domestic, international, and other crimes. | |
| So, it also expands enemy combatant designation, the way I've read it, into other crimes. | |
| I mean, this is the total takeover of our society. | |
| It's a pretty chilling document, and again, you know, I'm kind of, you know, one of the reactions here was, you know, | |
| Yeah, I think so. | |
| If you wanted to write a bill that would convince everybody that you represent a danger to civil liberties, this is the bill you'd draft. | |
| Well, even professors that were pro-Ashcroft and pro-Bush, Turley, said that they should all be impeached and removed in the LA Times. | |
| This is martial law. | |
| Camps for Citizens was the headline. | |
| Ashcroft's Hellish Camps was the actual headline. | |
| You probably saw that. | |
| I know Moyers put a link to that. | |
| I mean, look, sir, I, years ago, went and videotaped the Marines training to put Americans in camps. | |
| They had role players screaming, I'm an American, not to camp, and now it's in the L.A. | |
| Times, and now you get a hold of this document. | |
| Does this show... I mean, people say, well, maybe they leaked this to get us ready for it. | |
| I really don't think so. | |
| This is so bad and so damning. | |
| They would want to do this after another attack. | |
| I think that a lot of people in government, as I've talked to them, are really getting sick of this. | |
| And I would guess you got it from the military, or the IRS, or the INS, because I know that they were given secret copies as well. | |
| I know you can't tell us where the document came from. | |
| Can you tell us judicial, or from the bureaucracy, or from the executive, or from the legislative? | |
| What branch did this come to you from? | |
| Well, you know, I really don't feel comfortable saying which branch of the government it came from, but I will say, though, that our reading of the intention of the person that gave it to us was that they were concerned about it. | |
| Somebody on the inside, who's involved in some of these processes of coming up with legislation, who got wind of it, was very concerned when they saw the draft. | |
| I don't think this was a question of | |
| Floating this as a trial balloon and the first steps. | |
| I mean, I think this was much more a question of somebody being a whistleblower and trying to alert the American people. | |
| Well, I agree with you, because this is only going to hurt them. | |
| I mean, they passed it secretly last time. | |
| That's on the record, New York Times. | |
| They passed it secretly last time, wouldn't let people read it, so they certainly don't want us having months out the actual bill. | |
| I would say that's a fair characterization. | |
| And you know, with the first Patriot, I mean, there wasn't even a hearing in the Senate. | |
| I mean, you know, this very controversial bill went through, and you know, and the fact that this was held so close to the vest so long, and you know, if it weren't for our source, you know, we wouldn't know about it at all. | |
| I mean, I think that's a fairly troubling, you know, I mean, | |
| I think there are people in the various branches of the government who do care about the rule of law and protecting our civil liberties, but the question is, does the administration feel the same way? | |
| Bill Allison, Managing Editor of the Center for Public Integrity website, publicintegrity.org, link to it on infowars.com or on PBS's website, Drudge also has a link. | |
| Also, I noticed in Homeland Security Act that just passed last year that it says no whistleblower protection for even sexual harassment, embezzlement, corruption, government information. | |
| They're trying to head this off at the pass. | |
| Whoever leaked this is at great risk. | |
| They can be designated as a terrorist and are Homeland Security for simply blowing the whistle here. | |
| Had you thought about that? | |
| Well, I mean, I'm not sure if I mean, I'm not sure they can be designated a terrorist, but you know, but you're right, there are efforts to weaken whistleblower protections. | |
| Beyond that, just the whole freedom of information, which is kind of the lifeblood of an organization like ours, or, you know, reporters for the New York Times, Washington Post, or, you know, any paper out there. | |
| You know, being able to get access to information from the government is crucial. | |
| Especially in our system where we have an open, consensual government, but the only way to grade the government is if you know what they're doing. | |
| And this administration, I think there were something like 300 attempts to curtail Freedom of Information Act requests after September 11th. | |
| Are they mad at your organization? | |
| Have you gotten their feedback on what their view of this release is? | |
| I have not heard anything back directly from them beyond what we heard Friday afternoon after we initially released it. | |
| I suspect they're not very happy with us. | |
| Well, absolutely, and at first they tried to deny it and then had to admit it. | |
| What about Section 501, expatriation of terrorists? | |
| And it just says that if they can infer from conduct, thus stripping of your citizenship, which is an enemy combatant designation you've written for engaging, and it says this in the legislation, engaging in lawful activities can end up getting you stripped. | |
| And then there's another section about not letting anyone know who's been grabbed by the government. | |
| I mean, that's right out of the internal GRU or Stasi of East Germany. | |
| Right. | |
| And these are taken together. | |
| By themselves I think they're frightening. | |
| Taken together it's really, you know, the idea that you could be taken off the street and because you signed a petition or because you, you know, gave money to a group that was, you know, that you thought was perfectly legitimate was, you know, or say the charitable arm of a group that has some ties to terrorism, you know, directly or indirectly. | |
| Uh, but you know, but your intentions were certainly noble and had nothing to do with, uh, you know, killing people. | |
| Yeah, the idea that you could be considered a non-citizen and held, uh, without, you know, the government releasing where you are and holding you indefinitely. | |
| Well, this says that they won't even tell anybody they've grabbed you. | |
| And also, | |
| You know, looking at these definitions, they don't even have to grab you for giving money to a terrorist group. | |
| It's that they think you might have, or you've done things that might support. | |
| You know, let's say you've spoken out for Palestinians, and that's considered a terrorist group. | |
| Hamas, or whatever. | |
| I mean, this is insane. | |
| Because I've read the whole thing, I'm sure you have too, and you're right. | |
| Taken in its whole body, it's even worse. | |
| I mean, it's giving a tremendous amount of power to the executive branch and to, you know, and the flip side is, you know, whether you're right-wing or left-wing, I mean, if you're, you know, there are any number of people who might be considering, for example, you know, we all heard about the militias and law-abiding people who | |
| Let's say that they're strong proponents of the Second Amendment, you know, could they be considered belonging to a terrorist organization? | |
| You know, I was about to get into that, and that's an incredible point, Bill Allison. | |
| I can send you, or you can do a LexisNexis search, I know you have that. | |
| Washington Times had a headline, Constitutional Terrorist, and I have the training manual that FEMA and FBI use. | |
| I have video of them in Kansas City teaching a group of police that, quote, quote, | |
| The Founding Fathers were terrorists. | |
| They're enemies of the federal government. | |
| This mindset and their training manual says U.S. | |
| defenders of the Constitution are terrorists. | |
| It lists gun owners as terrorists. | |
| It lists homeschooling in Megiddo, the belief in a New World Order conspiracy theory, as a terrorist. | |
| So they're now setting up these definitions and protocols. | |
| Were you aware of that? | |
| I do remember hearing something about if you | |
| Federal agents being told that somebody who's carrying around a copy of the Declaration of Independence... It says that, yes. | |
| And again, obviously it's atrocious. | |
| I mean, if you think about the important documents in the history of humanity, certainly the Declaration of Independence is up there. | |
| It says, if you pull somebody over and they make, quote, frequent references to the U.S. | |
| Constitution, call the anti-terrorism hotline immediately. | |
| The police have sworn an oath to it! | |
| It's, I mean, again, it's a fairly frightening thing and you wonder, you know, we all know we have this government. | |
| We would like to believe that the government is, you know, lives by the principles under which it was founded and you have to ask whether that's the case. | |
| Well, Bill Allison, Managing Editor for the Center for Public Integrity, dropped a bombshell, information bombshell, that really is shaking the foundations of the police state. | |
| Bill Moyers, Friday night, and their website is publicintegrity.org. | |
| Bill, all I can say is, you know, last few questions, where is this going? | |
| Will this stop them from being able to pass it, or will they just say, see, we told you so, when the next terror attack takes place, they're doing nothing to stop? | |
| Well, you know, God forbid there should be another terrorist attack, but I would like to think that having gotten this out there, and you know, there are people on the Hill who will hopefully study this document, and if they do try to propose anything like this, the opponents of this kind of legislation and the people who care about civil liberties will stand up and be counted, and that's, you know, the best we can hope for. | |
| And to get a big grassroots movement going to take some time out to find out exactly what's happening because... Well, that too. | |
| Nothing's as important as that. | |
| Anything else, Bill? | |
| No, I can't think of anything else to add except that, again, regarding the grassroots movement, if our web traffic is any indication of this, and now it's all over the web, | |
| Which, you know, we're certainly happy for to put the information out there. | |
| But, you know, I think that people are really concerned about this. | |
| And, you know, the feedback we've been getting has been nearly crashing our servers, so... Well, if they read the bill, they're going to have a heart attack. | |
| Bill Allison, thank you for joining us, and God bless you. | |
| Keep the good work up. | |
| Oh, well, thank you so much. | |
| Thanks for having me on. | |
| Take care. | |
| I'm going to come back and read some of the subsections to you, and then analysis in the third hour, and more calls. | |
| Everybody stay right there. | |
| We'll be back. |